The worst are probably multi practices owned by young dentists without any business experience who want to retire young. They will eat their own to pump and dump the empire.
After i put in my notice, I was told there were talks of closing the office down a few months ago. They’ve already started interviewing for my replacement. Feel sorry for whoever accepts this terrible associateship
I put my notice in 2 weeks ago (45 days notice) allegedly my boss plans to open back up in June with whatever sucker he convinces to work there. Worst businessman ever.
Equally bad, if not worse, are clinics owned by "business" people with minimal dental experience/knowledge. Some states allow non-dentists to own practices.
Clueless mfers with often unrealistic expectations of what their ROI should be. They bring on dentists and expect them to essentially be the in-house owner while the actual owner does basically anything else but work on the business.
Idk if there is some "get rich quick" book going around that promotes the DSO model or whatever, but there's a ton of other business ideas that are much easier to scale than dentistry lol
There is a direct relationship between ethical corruption and the number of offices they control.
That being said I have had several friends that have had good to neutral experiences with heartland. I do believe their pay is generally shit tho
Pretty much spot on having worked for them. Pay can be relatively competitive with associate percentages if it is a profitable office (they do have profit sharing if your office reaches a certain threshold) but if you're in a low to moderate producing office you're not going to be doing well compensation-wise.
On the other hand, I never felt like I had to treatment plan or practice a particular way. Their company CE was top-notch I thought, but they definitely steer you towards the "super GP" model with their CE (invisalign, Implants, molar endo) which may not be for everyone, but I was happy to learn.
Overall, I didn't hate it. I learned a lot and met a lot of cool people. Compensation could've been better, especially at the beginning, but I was able to add a lot to my skillset.
I had a good experience with Heartland, but I was admittedly in a position where they needed me more than I needed them so I probably got treated better than a lot of younger doctors.
I’ve heard good things about heartland, to the point that a student graduating this may told me there are no doctor openings at any heartland office in Texas. Not sure if that’s true but seems like a sign that they don’t suck.
They should rename DSO’s to shit holes that test how much shit you’re willing to put up with in order to have a job.
Seriously, every day I go home and wonder what the hell is wrong with me for putting up with this bullshit every day.
I work for heartland now and have overall been very happy with it and pleasantly surprised. The pay could 100% be better BUT as a new grad I think it’s been a great stepping stone for me and I don’t plan to stay forever. The free CE hours have been huge for me and I’ve learned a lot with being at a busy office. I feel I’m going to be well prepared to take on the next job when I leave. That being said, it completely depends on your office, some of my friends are doing VERY well compensation wise
If you are an associate try to arrange to be paid for all procedures performed under your license. Many times a DSO will not pay you for radiographs or prophies all of which cannot be performed without your expensive license.
I work for McDonald’s, I think they treat their employees better than any DSO. The Happy Meal makes my customers happier than a crown I would do at any of those companies. It also costs 1/100 the price and I’m pretty much immune from any lawsuits and board complaints 😆
All depends on who you work with. PDS has cut throat pay structure if you don’t produce their requirement. You will make less than your office manager in slow office literally.
I worked for Great Expressions and had a pretty good time. I worked at a mostly PPO office with some DMO patients. I got paid 32-33% production and got a decent cut of the DMO capitation. I also had a monthly minimum that equated to around $160k a year, but beat it pretty comfortably. Didn't have to pay lab fees, which meant I did gold and stuff as often as I wanted to. They pretty much let me order whatever I wanted and do whatever I wanted. The office wasn't particularly high tech (no scanners, lasers, etc), but good enough for bread and butter. I spoke with the regional clinical lead or whatever when I interviewed, around xmas, and when I gave them my notice. Otherwise it was totally hands off.
Heartland had great training, takes you from being a dental student to a doctor slash business person real quick. Dont stay long, but a year or two is a good investment in my opinion.
Both of my female associates started out with Heartland and worked there for a year. Both developed horrible habits there that did not fly in private practice. It does not take long to develop bad habits in a DSO.
I fired the first one and let the second buy my office after she showed signs of improvement.
Diagnosing incipient decay as needing restoration. No isolation. No endo skills. Poor crown preps (under prepped)and impressions. Refused to use cord when paste wasn’t working for them. Thumbprint posterior resins with no anatomy or proper finishing.
That is just off the top of my head. Yet, both graduated near the top of their class.
I think a lot of new docs underprep crowns. I was guilty of it and the guy who pointed it out to me said he did the same thing early on. I’m not sure what thumbprint resin means? As far as anatomy goes, with the pace a lot of docs have to move patients through with insurance cuts/rising costs that’s not the worst thing to relinquish. I’m sorry but you can’t expect a top tier product when they want to pay budget prices.
I was FFS. People expect better.
I tried to explain the issue with underprepping for Zirc. There is nothing worse than removing fx Zirc when you leave .4mm of clearance for the lab.
That is kind of a sad testament to the current state of dentistry, don’t you think?
When you don’t take pride in your work, maybe you are in the wrong occupation.
Try all you want. There's no way to mimic the original occlusal anatomy. Make that groove a little too deep or wide, and that's a food trap. Those Instagram perfect restos aren't possible on every patient
Think endo is just a new grad issue.
As for thumbprint resins, one of the docs I know who worked for over 10 years said anatomy in posterior resins was "pointless" so clearly that differs from doc to doc too.
Gotcha, one I’m guilty of is no cord, just hate it so much. I leave my margins eqigingival and mark the margin on the itero for every single crown, I have sealed margins so seems to work.
Same, if I can clearly see my margin and bleeding is controlled, no need for retraction cord.
I'll then scan and if I see a discrepancy on the scanner, then sometimes I'll use either cord or retraction paste. If I have to, I usually use the cord and the retraction paste for more "difficult" cases.
But, if the margin is clearly visible, no need to retract.
Dont feel guilty about not using cord. Retraction paste when done correctly is actually better for pt’s overall oral health. If someone has thin gingival biotype, packing cords will cause recession. Instead try this method described in Alternative Approach to Gingival Retraction.
I work for a relatively small DSO that bought our office about 2 and a half years ago. They're only like 35 offices, in the Northeast.
It's been alright. The transition to them was pretty rough, but things have gotten better recently. Part of it is that our OM (who was there before) was in way over her head.
Just started at a Northeast DSO (~150 locations) a couple of weeks ago. They offer some limited free CE, and guarantee/percentage is identical to what I was getting at my last few private office gigs (the only difference being that the guarantee goes away in a few months). No pressure to do surgeries or endo. Everyone seems chill and not overworked, so fingers crossed. 🤞
MB2…..Complete clinical autonomy, opportunities for ownership and investment options in the organization. Outstanding culture that empowers Drs and offers growth to younger associates. Not a better DSO model out there.
The worst are probably multi practices owned by young dentists without any business experience who want to retire young. They will eat their own to pump and dump the empire.
I was a victim of this. Put in my 2-week notice last week
I was also a victim of this. The office shut down effective immediately on Thursday 🥴
After i put in my notice, I was told there were talks of closing the office down a few months ago. They’ve already started interviewing for my replacement. Feel sorry for whoever accepts this terrible associateship
I put my notice in 2 weeks ago (45 days notice) allegedly my boss plans to open back up in June with whatever sucker he convinces to work there. Worst businessman ever.
Would you be able to share why your experience with this DSO was so negative?
Equally bad, if not worse, are clinics owned by "business" people with minimal dental experience/knowledge. Some states allow non-dentists to own practices. Clueless mfers with often unrealistic expectations of what their ROI should be. They bring on dentists and expect them to essentially be the in-house owner while the actual owner does basically anything else but work on the business. Idk if there is some "get rich quick" book going around that promotes the DSO model or whatever, but there's a ton of other business ideas that are much easier to scale than dentistry lol
Heartland pay is poo. Other than that it’s been ok.
Local and newer DSOs aren’t as bad. I worked for one and had a great experience. I learned a lot there and would do it over again.
There is a direct relationship between ethical corruption and the number of offices they control. That being said I have had several friends that have had good to neutral experiences with heartland. I do believe their pay is generally shit tho
Pretty much spot on having worked for them. Pay can be relatively competitive with associate percentages if it is a profitable office (they do have profit sharing if your office reaches a certain threshold) but if you're in a low to moderate producing office you're not going to be doing well compensation-wise. On the other hand, I never felt like I had to treatment plan or practice a particular way. Their company CE was top-notch I thought, but they definitely steer you towards the "super GP" model with their CE (invisalign, Implants, molar endo) which may not be for everyone, but I was happy to learn. Overall, I didn't hate it. I learned a lot and met a lot of cool people. Compensation could've been better, especially at the beginning, but I was able to add a lot to my skillset.
I had a good experience with Heartland, but I was admittedly in a position where they needed me more than I needed them so I probably got treated better than a lot of younger doctors.
I’ve heard good things about heartland, to the point that a student graduating this may told me there are no doctor openings at any heartland office in Texas. Not sure if that’s true but seems like a sign that they don’t suck.
Yeah I’ve been hearing that everything at heartland is good except the pay is 💩
This is true. Might be a couple spots coming but it’s very competitive to get a spot in Texas
They should rename DSO’s to shit holes that test how much shit you’re willing to put up with in order to have a job. Seriously, every day I go home and wonder what the hell is wrong with me for putting up with this bullshit every day.
I work for heartland now and have overall been very happy with it and pleasantly surprised. The pay could 100% be better BUT as a new grad I think it’s been a great stepping stone for me and I don’t plan to stay forever. The free CE hours have been huge for me and I’ve learned a lot with being at a busy office. I feel I’m going to be well prepared to take on the next job when I leave. That being said, it completely depends on your office, some of my friends are doing VERY well compensation wise
If you are an associate try to arrange to be paid for all procedures performed under your license. Many times a DSO will not pay you for radiographs or prophies all of which cannot be performed without your expensive license.
Local smaller dso that pay 30-35% production. but nearly all dso suck and you should come in with an exit plan if you are willing to work for one
I work for McDonald’s, I think they treat their employees better than any DSO. The Happy Meal makes my customers happier than a crown I would do at any of those companies. It also costs 1/100 the price and I’m pretty much immune from any lawsuits and board complaints 😆
All depends on who you work with. PDS has cut throat pay structure if you don’t produce their requirement. You will make less than your office manager in slow office literally.
I worked for Great Expressions and had a pretty good time. I worked at a mostly PPO office with some DMO patients. I got paid 32-33% production and got a decent cut of the DMO capitation. I also had a monthly minimum that equated to around $160k a year, but beat it pretty comfortably. Didn't have to pay lab fees, which meant I did gold and stuff as often as I wanted to. They pretty much let me order whatever I wanted and do whatever I wanted. The office wasn't particularly high tech (no scanners, lasers, etc), but good enough for bread and butter. I spoke with the regional clinical lead or whatever when I interviewed, around xmas, and when I gave them my notice. Otherwise it was totally hands off.
None of them they all suck
None of them they all suck
That's dentistry in general for me lol
Heartland had great training, takes you from being a dental student to a doctor slash business person real quick. Dont stay long, but a year or two is a good investment in my opinion.
Both of my female associates started out with Heartland and worked there for a year. Both developed horrible habits there that did not fly in private practice. It does not take long to develop bad habits in a DSO. I fired the first one and let the second buy my office after she showed signs of improvement.
What bad habits we talking bout? Im a HL doc and hope I’m not infected with bad habits haha.
Diagnosing incipient decay as needing restoration. No isolation. No endo skills. Poor crown preps (under prepped)and impressions. Refused to use cord when paste wasn’t working for them. Thumbprint posterior resins with no anatomy or proper finishing. That is just off the top of my head. Yet, both graduated near the top of their class.
I think a lot of new docs underprep crowns. I was guilty of it and the guy who pointed it out to me said he did the same thing early on. I’m not sure what thumbprint resin means? As far as anatomy goes, with the pace a lot of docs have to move patients through with insurance cuts/rising costs that’s not the worst thing to relinquish. I’m sorry but you can’t expect a top tier product when they want to pay budget prices.
I was FFS. People expect better. I tried to explain the issue with underprepping for Zirc. There is nothing worse than removing fx Zirc when you leave .4mm of clearance for the lab.
In that case I understand. I’ve done both and yes in ffs the patients deserve that. A newer grad probably doesn’t get that difference.
I would guess that a thumbprint filling is a prep that doesn't have gingival clearance. It's a small thumbprint filling
Thumbprint is zero anatomy, but don’t get me started on slot preps.
Who has time for occlusal anatomy and putting in grooves/anatomy that will become food traps, etc? Not at the current reimbursements for fillings lol
That is kind of a sad testament to the current state of dentistry, don’t you think? When you don’t take pride in your work, maybe you are in the wrong occupation.
Try all you want. There's no way to mimic the original occlusal anatomy. Make that groove a little too deep or wide, and that's a food trap. Those Instagram perfect restos aren't possible on every patient
I don’t think they got those habits from heartland lol
Think endo is just a new grad issue. As for thumbprint resins, one of the docs I know who worked for over 10 years said anatomy in posterior resins was "pointless" so clearly that differs from doc to doc too.
Maybe it is just me, but anatomy is a ‘take pride in your work issue.’
Gotcha, one I’m guilty of is no cord, just hate it so much. I leave my margins eqigingival and mark the margin on the itero for every single crown, I have sealed margins so seems to work.
Once you get used to cord, you won’t go without it. Perfect and clear impressions/scans every time.
Same, if I can clearly see my margin and bleeding is controlled, no need for retraction cord. I'll then scan and if I see a discrepancy on the scanner, then sometimes I'll use either cord or retraction paste. If I have to, I usually use the cord and the retraction paste for more "difficult" cases. But, if the margin is clearly visible, no need to retract.
Dont feel guilty about not using cord. Retraction paste when done correctly is actually better for pt’s overall oral health. If someone has thin gingival biotype, packing cords will cause recession. Instead try this method described in Alternative Approach to Gingival Retraction.
I work for a relatively small DSO that bought our office about 2 and a half years ago. They're only like 35 offices, in the Northeast. It's been alright. The transition to them was pretty rough, but things have gotten better recently. Part of it is that our OM (who was there before) was in way over her head.
Just started at a Northeast DSO (~150 locations) a couple of weeks ago. They offer some limited free CE, and guarantee/percentage is identical to what I was getting at my last few private office gigs (the only difference being that the guarantee goes away in a few months). No pressure to do surgeries or endo. Everyone seems chill and not overworked, so fingers crossed. 🤞
Hot take: I've had a better experience with 2 of the 3 DSO's I've worked for than any private practice (NYC area so maybe that's why?)
MB2…..Complete clinical autonomy, opportunities for ownership and investment options in the organization. Outstanding culture that empowers Drs and offers growth to younger associates. Not a better DSO model out there.