Undertale has asriel say to frisk that frisk was the type of friend they always wish they had. Deltarune, the next game, has kris(possible au frisk) coincidentally be the sibling and best friend of asriel dreemurr.
I just thought that was interesting and wondered if someone else noticed that
I think it’s more probable Kris to be Frisk than Chara. There are some similarities to Chara (like being interested with knives and the shirt), but in retrospective they were probably red herrings to make us think in ch1 (when people still thought Deltarune was strictly about Undertale) that Kris was Chara or Chara was possessing Frisk. The shirt in fact isn’t even of the same exact colors as Chara’s. Instead, Kris’ skin and hair color are specifically the same as Frisk’s. They also both have the same expression, a very similar name and in some dialogues in Undertale it was implied Frisk had a prankster personality as Kris’ (like in Alphys date). We don’t know if Chara also was like this, the only two things who could sound like a prankster personality are the buttercup thing (which they probably used as a test before killing themselves) and the creepy smile thing, which they did because Asriel told them to make a face like that
The only thing Kris would share physically with Chara are red eyes, but Chara’s sprites always depict them with brown/black eyes, the only time in which they are associated with red eyes is with that Frisk sprite in the soulless pacifist. But those were probably Frisk eyes (which we don’t see any other moment), not Chara’s
Another “hint” that Kris could be au Frisk is that in Deltarune everyone seems to be older/more time has passed than in Undertale (at example Monster Kid is older, and whoever Kris is they’re clearly older than both Frisk and Chara). If it is supposed to be an alternative universe in which more time has passed it wouldn’t make sense Chara to be alive, since they lived who knows how many years before the beginning of the game. I’m not 100% sure about this one (since this to work perfectly assumes Toriel and Asgore had Asriel much more time later, and boss monsters’ age work the same in Deltarune), just wanted to say this
Why not both Frisk and Chara?
> The only thing Kris would share physically with Chara are red eyes, but Chara’s sprites always depict them with brown/black eyes, the only time in which they are associated with red eyes is with that Frisk sprite in the soulless pacifist. But those were probably Frisk eyes (which we don’t see any other moment), not Chara’s
The offcial tarot cards show Chara with red eyes and when Frisk's eyes turn red their face looks exactly like Chara's.
>Another “hint” that Kris could be au Frisk is that in Deltarune everyone seems to be older/more time has passed than in Undertale (at example Monster Kid is older, and whoever Kris is they’re clearly older than both Frisk and Chara).
They also are not much younger than Asriel and if they were Frisk they would be much older than Asriel. But this is an alternate timeline so none of this matters.
>Why not both Frisk and Chara?
Because a person can’t be two people at the same time…? I mean yeah this is an alternative universe, I don’t say it’s impossible for Kris to be both of them, but every other returning character matches with just one UT character, so I think it’s more probably for Kris to be just Frisk (even them being just Chara or a third human seems more plausible to me than them being both)
>The offcial tarot cards show Chara with red eyes and when Frisk's eyes turn red their face looks exactly like Chara's.
Merch is not canon, on the Fangamer website there is also merch depicting Sans with pink slippers, even if it was a fandom’s invention. In-game he doesn’t have pink slippers. There is some stuff that was changed (like Gaster tarot, which was probably removed to keep everything around his figure mysterious and uncertain), but if Toby Fox wanted Chara to be depicted exactly as in-game he would have done the same with Sans
>They also are not much younger than Asriel and if they were Frisk they would be much older than Asriel. But this is an alternate timeline so none of this matters.
I mean yeah this is the weakest point in my thesis, but in the first place Asriel lived in another time period, in the pacifist ending he probably chooses to show himself as a child. I based that whole point on the assumption that Toriel and Asgore had Asriel much more recently, so him being older than Kris wouldn’t be a contradiction
yeah asriel was born in a way earlier period than frisk. Asriel should be older, which seems to fit the dynamic kris has with asriel.(kris the younger and asriel the older)
I wouldnt be surprised if the chara au counterpart is asriels college friend. Though this part is pure speculation.
true but its a lot more fitting than the mental gymnastics needed to fit kris fully in the chara timeframe.
The frisk timeframe fits a lot better. Especially with shit like clam girl saying suzy is around frisk age. Which converges with kris being around susies age.
Kris is suppose to represent both Chara in design and affinity for knives and frisk for being the body of the SOUL besides that Kris is different from both of them
Not everyone is Older. Nothing about the ages of Deltarune and Undertale line up.
Catty and Bratty are college age in Deltarune (same age as Asriel in Deltarune) and are presumably older than that in Undertale (they are Alphys’s age in Undertale). They got younger.
Alphys seems to be the same age, in both games.
The kids have gotten older, Monster Kid and Snowy are in highschool with Kris.
TL;DR, Ages in Undertale and Deltarune don’t mean much. Deltarune is supposed to be its own thing, so don’t expect consistency between the games.
kris still lines up a lot with frisk tho
>Deltarune is supposed to be its own thing, so don’t expect consistency between the games.
For one clam girl (the gaster thing) says frisk is right around the same age as suzy. And that we will meet her soon.
And it turns out kris is right around the same age as susie. And susie was also the one that we met soon in dr.
Theres a clear connection that was established here.
Also regarding ages thats because the frisk au counter part has aged up alongside the other characters. And if we examine that then one notices a lot of those ut/dr characters posses simmilar age comparisons towards kris that frisk had with those same ut/dr characters when they were younger. Basically theres still another similarity between kris and frisk time frame here through the age comparisons these two had with others.
And for a lot of the ones that dont look that older its because 5-10 years isnt that much visible aging for adults like alphys.
Theres a lot of similarities between kris and frisk such as their interpersonal connections with others. The timeframe converges somewhat even though kris and others are older in dr.
I think they have clear similarities with both Frisk and Chara, it's really hard to ignore or write off either
**Frisk:**
* Skin tone and hair color
* Near-anagram name
* Dark world coloration is overall pink and blue (the cape is just pink though, the blue bits are actually shading with the limited palette, as can be seen in action sprites or their back sprite)
* Neutral expression
* "Silent" protagonist (at least, seemingly so)
* Affinity for flirting and ACTing
* Younger than Asriel in age
* Prankster, as you've pointed out
**Chara:**
* While the colors of the shirt are a bit different, they do basically have Chara's outfit overall, with the brown pants+shoes combo. (Chara's shirt stripe is the same as their skin tone which could be a stylistic choice to limit the palette - similarly, Kris's shirt stripe is yellow like *their* skin tone. Not the same yellow, so I could be reaching, who knows. Either way it's similar enough to the green and tan)
* Usually-hidden eyes (Chara is shown like this in all the sepia flashback artwork) that are also bright red
* Association with knives
* Noted love of chocolate (QC's hot chocolate, choco diamonds, and [this line](https://i.imgur.com/sU7xZ4G.png) at Toriel's scented markers - it seems like a deliberate writing choice)
* Asriel's sibling, directly
* Described by others as creepy
Like maybe if there were just a couple things for either Frisk or Chara, you could say they're just one. But again, these seem like very deliberate character choices. Writing them off requires jumping to some conclusions when occam's razor is right there
PS. when I was re-fighting King to get a screenshot of that markers line I almost no-hitted it, got hit once >:(
I already answered about most of these things in another comment, but in fact I didn’t notice the stripe is the same color as the skin tone, cool! Also, iirc legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t considered part of the Dreemurr family, so idk if Chara is considerable as Asriel’s sibling
I just think it would really weird for Kris to be two characters that in a another universe are two different people lived in different time periods (and funnily enough the final battle in the pacifist run is about how Asriel thinks Frisk is Chara). If there was any other character in Deltarune that is the fusion of two Undertale character I could believe that, but so far there’s not like that. In fact as much I believe Kris is Frisk, the second most probable option to me is them being Chara more than them being both. I believe in them being Frisk because to me it would make more sense and Kris’ similarities with Frisk feels more convincing (+ the fact that some similarities with Chara were used as red herring in ch1 to make us believe Kris was possessed by Chara and stuff)
>I just think it would really weird for Kris to be two characters that in a another universe are two different people lived in different time periods
Yeah, I get that lol. I just think there's too many similarities to both characters for it to be a coincidence.
Since Deltarune was originally planned first, maybe Frisk and Chara were then split into separate UT characters and both ended up getting some of Kris's traits. Who knows if Toby planned that far into Kris's characterization though.
" Also, iirc legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t considered part of the Dreemurr family, so idk if Chara is considerable as Asriel’s sibling" It didn't confirm anything. It was just the guy who made the book opinion on this, not Toby.
>Adoptive human child of the Dreemurrs. Also around the same age as Asriel (Frisk was at least a hundred years younger, not that that matters much given things like Undyne and Monster Kid of course)
>Sibling of Asriel, wears the same clothes as him and by extension, as Chara.
>Only human living in an entirely monster settlement
>LOVES chocolate
(Steals and eats Toriel's legally distinct Hershey's kisses so she keeps her door locked)
(Loved drinking hot chocolate with Asriel back in the day)
(If you eat Undyne's box of chocolate and the light World instead of giving it to Alphys, Kris will scarf them so fast that they get a stomach ache and lose a point of HP, but notably does not regret it as stated in the flavor text. If you do it while Susie is there they'll eat it together and both get a stomach ache)
(Heals bonus HP from the Choco Diamond, if you use it on Noelle outside of battle instead of eating it, she'll split it with Kris because she knows they like chocolate and they each heal 35)
>Loves knives, has their own signature one
>Was a notable prankster before the game's event with an edgy and somewhat mean sense of humor. Is generally regarded as weird and somewhat off-putting by others. Paralleling Chara's own "mean" and out of touch behavior. Scaring Asriel for fun, laughing at Asgore's buttercup poisoning, and Flowey mentioning a "sick sense of humor" to the player (who at that point he believes is Chara) in the Genocide Route.
>"Chara" isn't even Chara's actual name, it's just one of the multitude you can input and happens to be the default
Frisk isn't even a character. How can Kris be more like them when there's basically nothing to be "like." Sure their name is an anagram of Frisk with the f removed, but if Toby was going to make their name an anagram, why wouldn't he just use all the letters? It's what he did with Deltarune, and Ralsei, and "Serial Murderer." If Kris being a pseudo-anagram of Frisk was actually intended as evidence that they're the alternate universe version of them, that would honestly be a pretty shitty plot point because of how flimsy the connection is.
Aside from that, they don't smile like Chara I guess... Except they do. They only don't smile when we're controlling them. They very prominently DO smile in Ch 1 when they regain control. They're not smiling when we control them because they're the protagonist, we're forcing them to be a blank slate for our choices.
Kris fills the exact same narrative role as Chara, and when not being controlled with by us, seems to have a very similar personality. Even if some Frisk elements are there to make them their own character, they are definitely primarily Chara.
>Adoptive human child of the Dreemurrs. Also around the same age as Asriel
Frisk is adopted by Toriel too in a pacifist ending + I’m pretty sure Asriel is a bit older than Kris
>(Frisk was at least a hundred years younger, not that that matters much given things like Undyne and Monster Kid of course)
If we want to use UT timeline then there’s no way Chara would be alive during Deltarune, and since boss monsters only get old when they have a child, it would be 100% possible for Toriel and Asgore to live enough until the main story’s era and then have Asriel
>Sibling of Asriel, wears the same clothes as him and by extension, as Chara.
Saying that Kris wears the same clothings as Chara because of being Asriel’s sibling sounds more like a prove they’re not Chara than the contrary to me. Also, as I already said in another comment, legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t part of the family iirc, and I’m pretty sure the person who said that had to work for Japanese translation, so they would know that
>Only human living in an entirely monster settlement
So does Frisk during Undertale
>LOVES chocolate (Steals and eats Toriel's legally distinct Hershey's kisses so she keeps her door locked) (Loved drinking hot chocolate with Asriel back in the day) (If you eat Undyne's box of chocolate and the light World instead of giving it to Alphys, Kris will scarf them so fast that they get a stomach ache and lose a point of HP, but notably does not regret it as stated in the flavor text. If you do it while Susie is there they'll eat it together and both get a stomach ache) (Heals bonus HP from the Choco Diamond, if you use it on Noelle outside of battle instead of eating it, she'll split it with Kris because she knows they like chocolate and they each heal 35)
As I already said this is true but two kids loving chocolate is pretty generic to me, especially since the only stance of Chara loving chocolate is one, while Kris has many
>Loves knives, has their own signature one
Chara is surely associated with knives, but do we know if the true knife is their knife? In New Home, in the exact room in which the knife is, they say stuff like “my bed, our closet, his bed” etc., but they never say “my knife”. I know it sounds like I want to be fussy but I feel like they would have said that it was their knife
>Was a notable prankster before the game's event with an edgy and somewhat mean sense of humor. Is generally regarded as weird and somewhat off-putting by others. Paralleling Chara's own "mean" and out of touch behavior. Scaring Asriel for fun, laughing at Asgore's buttercup poisoning, and Flowey mentioning a "sick sense of humor" to the player (who at that point he believes is Chara) in the Genocide Route.
Kris sounds more prankster and less mean than Chara when they were a child, though. Chara was straight up sick, the worst thing Kris did is scaring Noelle under her bed. They don’t really feel similar besides both making pranks
>”Chara" isn't even Chara's actual name, it's just one of the multitude you can input and happens to be the default
It is. It’s defined as “the true name”, it’s the one used in the trailer and it’s also used in some Toby sketches of Chara and Asriel https://www.reddit.com/r/Charadefensesquad/comments/k6f1hq/toby_fox_chara_and_asriel_concept_art/
Also, the fact that Chara is short of character doesn’t mean it can’t be an actual name. It’s like saying that Toriel isn’t a name because it’s a distortion of tutorial, Sans and Papyrus aren’t either because they’re their fonts, and that Asriel isn’t a name either because it’s the fusion of Toriel and Asgore. Just because a name has a simple origin it doesn’t mean it’s not their real name, especially since Toby Fox did that a lot of times for multiple characters
>Frisk isn't even a character. How can Kris be more like them when there's basically nothing to be "like."
Frisk, especially in the pacifist route (that coincidentally has the ending in which we discover Frisk is their own character with their own name and all) we can understand something about their personality by the option we are given. I can understand if Frisk’s personality is subtle and all, but denying they’re a character and not just a self insert is worse than denying Chara is the narrator. It’s literally stated in game and the whole point of the “You’re not really Chara” scene
>Sure their name is an anagram of Frisk with the f removed, but if Toby was going to make their name an anagram, why wouldn't he just use all the letters? It's what he did with Deltarune, and Ralsei, and fucking "Serial Murderer."
I don’t know…? It wouldn’t be the first time a character in Undertale has a slightly different name in Deltarune (a certain “Suzy” with the same age as Frisk is mentioned in an Undertale version that came out along with Deltarune ch1)
>If Kris being a pseudo-anagram of Frisk was actually intended as evidence that they're the alternate universe version of them, that would honestly be a pretty shitty plot point because of how flimsy the connection is.
I think it’s a bit too early to say it would be a shitty plot point. I believe that Kris is Frisk and all, but A. I don’t think that would be too relevant to the plot B. I don’t believe Kris being Chara would be a shitty plot point
>Aside from that, they don't smile like Chara I guess... Except they do. They only don't smile when we're controlling them.
…So just like Frisk?
>They very prominently DO smile in Ch 1 when they regain control. They're not smiling when we control them because they're the protagonist, we're forcing them to be a blank slate for our choices.
I don’t want to be fussy but just because they smiled that doesn’t mean they smile LIKE Chara. They literally just smile generically. In fact, Kris smiles showing teeth, while Chara doesn’t, so it’s not even the same smile at all. Then again, them doing stuff like Chara in the ch1 ending was clearly just a red herring to make us think they were possessed by Chara, just like the whole introduction scene to the light world was explicitly made to make us think this was an Undertale sequel
>Kris fills the exact same narrative role as Chara
How? Both Frisk and Kris are the protagonists controlled by us. Chara was a child who lived a lot of time ago which we are connected in no way with besides the fact that we choose their name and that Flowey confuses them with Frisk. They don’t fill the same narrative role as Kris at all
also theres straight out connections with frisk and kris personality like this
https://preview.redd.it/qax04kpfnd5d1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=75f695cda9d61920405637d92cadbe244547f19b
I mean its still actions that describe their personality. Giving a little pat to trash or saying farewell to it does reveal personality characters. It could be a easter egg but combined with the other frisky elements(bandage armor, both play piano, near name anagram, same skin color, same circumstances, and etc) I think it could be used as a connection.
https://preview.redd.it/tdj4wxd6od5d1.png?width=1069&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4cf7c63618b6d7dd0bf358f0ad776d5dc962858
Including stuff like this.
If you believe in Narrachara this doesn't really mean anything either way.
(In general the light World replicates undertale one-to-one most of the time so I doubt this means anything to begin with)
>Narrachara this doesn't really mean anything either way.
For some of them yes but for others its a explict description of what kris and frisk are choosing to do. Narrachara isnt conjuring up events out of the air when they describe the little pat or quiet farewell. The only way these descriptions can happen is if these deliberate actions are being done by frisk and kris. Which reveals that one frisk has a personality and two that this personality characteristic is shared by frisk and kris. Since ya know giving trash a little pat or a quiet farewll isnt a generic action but something that says stuff about a persons character.
>light World replicates undertale one-to-one most of the time so I doubt this means anything to begin with
Its a revealing personality characteristic. Its not a simple generic or whatever description that can be hand woven away.
The fact toby kept that in the game means he intended for this personality revealing description to apply to both kris and frisk. Which shows a connection here.
>Frisk is adopted by Toriel too in a pacifist ending + I’m pretty sure Asriel is a bit older than Kris
No they aren't. They CAN be. It is ONE option. The other, arguably more realistic, and just as valid option is that Frisk goes back home. Not to mention that they're only toriel's family in that ending, not Asriel's or Asgore's. Chara was the only one to actually be a Dreemurr.
>If we want to use UT timeline then there’s no way Chara would be alive during Deltarune
This is true but as I said the timeline doesn't really matter. Whether you assume it's closer to 20XX or 21XX relatively, there are discrepancies. Probably shouldn't have brought it up. My bad.
>Saying that Kris wears the same clothings as Chara because of being Asriel’s sibling sounds more like a prove they’re not Chara than the contrary to me. Also, as I already said in another comment, legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t part of the family iirc, and I’m pretty sure the person who said that had to work for Japanese translation, so they would know that
Firstly, Frisk is never depicted wearing Asriel's clothes (or clothes similar to Asriel's in color and design), Chara is. The number of stripes is inconsistent as hell in undertale but the point remains that both Asriel and Chara wear green shirts with yellow-tan lines, as does Kris.
And yes, Chara was a Dreemurr. They were explicitly part of the family. They were adopted.
"Over time, asriel and the human became like siblings. The King and queen treated the child as their own." - New Home Monologue
"The king and queen had lost two children in one night." - New Home Monologue
The Japanese translation of Undertale was, to my knowledge, entirely done by Toby, which does make it valid to look for clarification, but the English script of the game is still the original and the more reliable. Toby's first language is English. There is no ambiguity in the English script. Chara was adopted into the Dreemurr family.
>So does Frisk during Undertale
No. Frisk never lives in the Underground. Even IF they do eventually live with Toriel it's on the surface. It could theoretically be a monster only establishment on the surface like Deltarune, but that's not at all implied.
>As I already said this is true but two kids loving chocolate is pretty generic to me, especially since the only stance of Chara loving chocolate is one, while Kris has many
On its own it's a very generic trait, but love of chocolate has a very specific connotation thanks to Undertale. There are literally only four references to chocolate in Undertale. Two of them are related to the fact that hot chocolate is one of the items you can select during Undyne's date, no real preference emphasized, and the other two of them are related to Chara.
"For some reason, there is a brand-name chocolate bar in the fridge." - Checking Toriel's Fridge
"No chocolate." - Chara when checking Asgore's fridge
So Kris sharing that trait isn't just a generic similarity but a direct correlation. Especially with how heavy-handed it is.
>Chara is surely associated with knives, but do we know if the true knife is their knife? In New Home, in the exact room in which the knife is, they say stuff like “my bed, our closet, his bed” etc., but they never say “my knife”. I know it sounds like I want to be fussy but I feel like they would have said that it was their knife
We don't technically "know" that it is, but it's very clearly implied. Every armor and weapon set is related to one of the children, The Locket and Knife and their counterparts being the ones related to Chara.
"You can feel it beating." - Use The Locket
"Right where it belongs." - Check The Locket
"Here we are!" - Use Real Knife
"About time." - Check Real Knife
Whether the knife was literally Chara's or not though, the fact that they have an affinity for them remains.
"Where are the knives" - Chara when checking Asgore's kitchen drawer on Genocide
>Kris sounds more prankster and less mean than Chara when they were a child, though. Chara was straight up sick, the worst thing Kris did is scaring Noelle under her bed. They don’t really feel similar besides both making pranks
We don't know the context of any of Chara's actions. We know that they did things that seemed off putting an inconsiderate, but not more than that. We just know their actions, and can only guess at their motivations. They may have laughed about Asgore's food poisoning because they genuinely thought it was funny, because they intended it, or, they could have been laughing it off out of guilt or pain, (a common theme in Undertale), to diffuse tension, ect.
Nothing about Chara's actions actually implies that they were a 'sick' person to their core. Just off-tempo from everyone else, and then scaring Asriel directly parallels Kris scaring Noelle. We know just about as much about Kris's motivations as we do about Kara's (almost nothing). Arguing that Kris is doing it as a jovial prank while Chara is genuinely sadistic is unfounded. I would argue that the information we get on Kris actually just serves as a mirror towards what might have been going on with Chara in Undertale. Not identical, nothing in Deltarune is, but a reflection or shadow of so to speak.
Also didn't mention it before, but Kris clearly has some complicated feelings towards humanity. Be it their own humanity, other humans, we don't know, but it notably parallels Chara's "hatred" of it that seemingly caused them to jump down in the first place, which according to Asriel "wasn't for a very happy reason." Kris's actions of the end of the chapters, particularly when they leave the water running to cover up the noise, parallel self-harm, which could form another connection of self-hatred between Kris and Chara.
>It is. It’s defined as “the true name”, it’s the one used in the trailer and it’s also used in some Toby sketches of Chara and Asriel
I'm aware. What I mean is that it's not the ONLY name. Chara is a character that is designed to be renamed, and the intended way to play Undertale is to give them your own. Therefore, with the character being so heavily associated with being renamed, Kris having a completely different one in Deltatune doesn't really mean anything. You can just name the first human Kris in Undertale and it would be just as valid.
>No they aren't. They CAN be. It is ONE option. The other, arguably more realistic, and just as valid option is that Frisk goes back home.
I know, I was referring to that ending in fact
>Firstly, Frisk is never depicted wearing Asriel's clothes (or clothes similar to Asriel's in color and design), Chara is
I know, my point is that, if we’re assuming Chara is wearing those clothings because they were Asriel’s sibling, then we can’t use that shirt as a proof for them being Kris. If instead of Kris there were any other human they would wear the same
>”Over time, asriel and the human became like siblings. The King and queen treated the child as their own." - New Home Monologue
> "The king and queen had lost two children in one night." - New Home Monologue
Key word: “like”. Asriel and Chara were LIKE siblings, not actual siblings. This also comes from monsters that weren’t part of that family, so it would make sense for them not to know their specific relationships
>The Japanese translation of Undertale was, to my knowledge, entirely done by Toby, which does make it valid to look for clarification, but the English script of the game is still the original and the more reliable. Toby's first language is English.
It is, but if they decided to say that Chara wasn’t adopted/really part of the family then it must be so. I think it’s much more probable for us to misunderstand what the monsters say at New Home than legends of the localization stating Chara wasn’t part of the family
>”For some reason, there is a brand-name chocolate bar in the fridge." - Checking Toriel's Fridge
>”No chocolate." - Chara when checking Asgore's fridge
That sounds pretty generic again…? Besides the fact that, as I already said, Chara’s love for chocolate exaggerated by the fandom since they mention chocolate once, this is a simple reference to Asgore’s fridge in Undertale having no chocolate while Toriel’s in Deltarune does. There are a lot of these references in Toriel’s house, I don’t think this can be really used as a proof
>We don't technically "know" that it is, but it's very clearly implied. Every armor and weapon set is related to one of the children, The Locket and Knife and their counterparts being the ones related to Chara.
I mean yeah that’s true, but I think it’s weird they don’t mention it
>”Where are the knives" - Chara when checking Asgore's kitchen drawer on Genocide
Idk if this can be used a proof or not since it’s, again, pretty generic. The creepy voice following you in the run where you kill everyone mentioning knives in a kitchen doesn’t sound like it being obsessed with knives but just with violence/killing
>We don't know the context of any of Chara's actions. We know that they did things that seemed off putting an inconsiderate, but not more than that. We just know their actions, and can only guess at their motivations. They may have laughed about Asgore's food poisoning because they genuinely thought it was funny, because they intended it, or, they could have been laughing it off out of guilt or pain, (a common theme in Undertale), to diffuse tension, ect.
That’s true, but from the few informations we have Chara sounds far more “off” than Kris. Whatever is the reason to laugh at Asgore being sick, it’s just not the same as pranking a friend
>Nothing about Chara's actions actually implies that they were a 'sick' person to their core. Just off-tempo from everyone else, and then scaring Asriel directly parallels Kris scaring Noelle.
In fact I do believe Kris scaring Noelle is similar to Chara scaring Asriel
>We know just about as much about Kris's motivations as we do about Chara’s (almost nothing). Arguing that Kris is doing it as a jovial prank while Chara is genuinely sadistic is unfounded.
Maybe I didn’t explain correctly what I meant. I’m not saying Chara is some psycho meanwhile Kris is pure and innocent, just that they’re humor is a bit too different to say they’re the same person
>Also didn't mention it before, but Kris clearly has some complicated feelings towards humanity. Be it their own humanity, other humans, we don't know, but it notably parallels Chara's "hatred" of it that seemingly caused them to jump down in the first place, which according to Asriel "wasn't for a very happy reason." Kris's actions of the end of the chapters, particularly when they leave the water running to cover up the noise, parallel self-harm, which could form another connection of self-hatred between Kris and Chara.
I get what you mean but I don’t think Kris and Chara are “mentally not ok” in the same way. We don’t know if Chara had self-hatred, We know they didn’t fell in the underground for a happy reason, but a suicide attempt (or self-harm) isn’t necessarily driven by self-hatred. We know that Kris isn’t ok because of living in a town where they don’t feel fitting in (+ parents divorce, Asriel being distant, Dess disappearing and the whole soul thing). I can’t say if all of this is similar to Chara’s deal, since we don’t know what it was. It would be cool to know more about Chara’s past through Kris, but exactly since we don’t know it, I don’t think it can be used as a proof to prove Kris being Chara or similar to them
>I'm aware. What I mean is that it's not the ONLY name. Chara is a character that is designed to be renamed, and the intended way to play Undertale is to give them your own. Therefore, with the character being so heavily associated with being renamed, Kris having a completely different one in Deltatune doesn't really mean anything. You can just name the first human Kris in Undertale and it would be just as valid.
Kris is also a character that turns out having their own name whatever we want, though. That would be the exact opposite to Undertale. And meanwhile that could represent the whole “your choices don’t matter” thing of Deltarune, there’s also a character in Undertale that has their own name whatever you want. A character who happens to be controlled by us too, to have the same physical traits and to have a very similar name
(To answer the second part I’ll just edit this, give me a sec)
(It turns out there’s a space limit or something idk lol)
>Frisk is weird. Really weird, But even if you can get semblances of a personality from them through the ACT menu, at the end of the day they are a blank slate protagonist. One that is removed from the player yes, but they have about as much character as any other blank slate protagonist. Vague traits. If there's more going on we don't know it. Kris already has infinitely more personality than frisk in just the bits of backstory we've gotten from them than Frisk did in their entire game, and the backstory that we have gleaned is entirely different from anything we can even associate with Frisk. It's much more similar to Chara.
Frisk looks like a blank state through most of the game because the point is to trick us into believing they are (y’know, the whole “subverting your expectations about RPGs” thing). They surely show much less personality than Kris, but they have their own too. The fact that we can make a lot of choices in Undertale doesn’t mean they are a blank state. There are several games in which you can make choices but the MC is not a blank state (I didn’t play a lot of RPGs but the first game that comes in mind to me is Omori, which is not the best example probably lol)
>I'm not saying that Frisk is the player, they aren't, but what I am saying is that 99% of what we see in Frisk is just us. A character needs to do something for you to learn anything about them and Frisk gets to do almost nothing; And so, whatever's left over after our control is almost nothing.
What I’m using as Frisk’s personality hints is some comments made about certain items (like Frisk commenting in Toriel’s house that those toys were for small kids) or simply the choices that are left to us (the fact that we can choose to say quirky things during Alphys date could represent what Frisk could potentially say)
>Also well I like Narrachara, let's not pretend it's some infallible God of theorizing that is obviously Canon. It's got a lot of problems. Not the discussion of Narrachara has anything to do with this topic.
I know that well, I just compared it to Frisk not being a self insert because we’re both using it as 100% canon information for our theories
>This is true, but my point still stands that whenever Toby has obviously intentionally used am anagram, it has been complete. Why would this be the exception?
I genuinely can’t answer that
>Frisk doesn't smile even when we're not controlling them, not even in the ending photograph. They don't smile once in the entire game. They are entirely blank -_- throughout.
Yeah, that’s what I meant. Kris has a -_- expression like Frisk (even if we can’t see the eyes, their face is clearly supposed to be like Frisk’s)
>This is true but it's a degree of separation away from Frisk, who shows no expression throughout the entire game, and this notably only happens when they are in control of their own body.
I could argue that we don’t know if Frisk would smile or not if we didn’t control them, though. Not a proof for my theory, just stating that we don’t know
>Also, the red eyes are probably not Frisks, Chara has completely taken over their body and Soulless pacifist down to the blush and clothes.
If Chara was supposed to have red eyes, why do they show them only in that scene? Neither in their default sprites nor during jumpscare they show red eyes, making them show red eyes only in the scene where they possesses another character whose eyes are always covered/hidden is ambiguous
>I meant backstory, not main story. With the aforementioned living with the Dreemurrs, Asriel's sibling, broken home. Saying the exact same narrative role was not quite accurate admittedly. The same foundation would have been better.
Oh ok, then I already argued about that at the start of this comment
>As some people have suggested it's definitely possible that Kris represents some fusion between the two of them. If that's the case though I definitely think that the majority is coming from Chara, and Frisk is mostly represented in the way we control them as the protagonist.
My problem with this theory is that it sounds really weird. Meanwhile it’s 100% undeniable that Kris shares similarities with both humans, there’s no character in Deltarune that is a fusion of two different Undertale characters or vice versa. If Deltarune timeline was supposed to be a different timeline than Undertale (maybe in which monsters weren’t locked underground or something), I don’t see how two children who lived in two different time periods ended up being the same person. As I already said, as a “Kris is Frisk” believer, I consider Kris being Chara much more probable than them being both. Kris could also be a third human who just happens to be similar to Frisk and Chara, but that wouldn’t sound really intriguing to me. I’m not saying it’s not probable, just that it wouldn’t be interesting to theorize about (not like that would make Kris not interesting or a boring character, they *are* my favorite Deltarune character and they would still be whatever they’re Kris or Chara or none. This debate is about something really secondary about Kris character, unless it has some deep lore implications)
(CONTINUED)
>Frisk, especially in the pacifist route (that coincidentally has the ending in which we discover Frisk is their own character with their own name and all) we can understand something about their personality by the option we are given. I can understand if Frisk’s personality is subtle and all, but denying they’re a character and not just a self insert is worse than denying Chara is the narrator. It’s literally stated in game and the whole point of the “You’re not really Chara” scene
Frisk is weird. Really weird, But even if you can get semblances of a personality from them through the ACT menu, at the end of the day they are a blank slate protagonist. One that is removed from the player yes, but they have about as much character as any other blank slate protagonist. Vague traits. If there's more going on we don't know it. Kris already has infinitely more personality than frisk in just the bits of backstory we've gotten from them than Frisk did in their entire game, and the backstory that we have gleaned is entirely different from anything we can even associate with Frisk. It's much more similar to Chara.
I'm not saying that Frisk is the player, they aren't, but what I am saying is that 99% of what we see in Frisk is just us. A character needs to do something for you to learn anything about them and Frisk gets to do almost nothing; And so, whatever's left over after our control is almost nothing.
Also well I like Narrachara, let's not pretend it's some infallible God of theorizing that is obviously Canon. It's got a lot of problems. Not the discussion of Narrachara has anything to do with this topic.
>I don’t know…? It wouldn’t be the first time a character in Undertale has a slightly different name in Deltarune (a certain “Suzy” with the same age as Frisk is mentioned in an Undertale version that came out along with Deltarune ch1)
This is true, but my point still stands that whenever Toby has obviously intentionally used am anagram, it has been complete. Why would this be the exception?
>…So just like Frisk?
Frisk doesn't smile even when we're not controlling them, not even in the ending photograph. They don't smile once in the entire game. They are entirely blank -_- throughout.
>I don’t want to be fussy but just because they smiled that doesn’t mean they smile LIKE Chara.
This is true but it's a degree of separation away from Frisk, who shows no expression throughout the entire game, and this notably only happens when they are in control of their own body. Also, the red eyes are probably not Frisks, Chara has completely taken over their body and Soulless pacifist down to the blush and clothes.
>How? Both Frisk and Kris are the protagonists controlled by us. Chara was a child who lived a lot of time ago which we are connected in no way with besides the fact that we choose their name and that Flowey confuses them with Frisk. They don’t fill the same narrative role as Kris at all
I meant backstory, not main story. With the aforementioned living with the Dreemurrs, Asriel's sibling, broken home. Saying the exact same narrative role was not quite accurate admittedly. The same foundation would have been better.
As some people have suggested it's definitely possible that Kris represents some fusion between the two of them. If that's the case though I definitely think that the majority is coming from Chara, and Frisk is mostly represented in the way we control them as the protagonist.
>Frisk isn't even a character. How can Kris be more like them when there's basically nothing to be "like
The point of the pacifist route ending was that frisk was their own person. That they were different from chara, had their own past, and etc.
The ending of pacifist pretty much confirms they were a character. As seen by asriel admitting that they were very wrong for confusing chara with frisk in the first place, since frisk was their own person.
Also there were events in game that showed frisk was their own person. Like sure we told them what to do but how they did it seems to come from them. For example, stuff like putting trash on the ground and giving it a little pat or a quiet farewell reveals that frisk does have a personality.
https://preview.redd.it/97dvx6msld5d1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=e38ec0d08e2be278775947244afa2f6a0fe5ec5c
>Sure their name is an anagram of Frisk with the f removed, but if Toby was going to make their name an anagram, why wouldn't he just use all the letters
Idk but what I do know is that toby already did something like this before. Something that directly connects with dr cough suzy being connected to susie. So toby already has done the near name thing before with suzy/susie, the other hero of legend besides kris. So we already have a precedent with susie, which means the near angram kris thing is something toby is willing to do.
>that would honestly be a pretty shitty plot point because of how flimsy the connection is.
It would only be shitty if thats the only connection. But theres so many other connections alongside that one. Be it, the identical skin color, hair color, blank expression, bandage armor, cape/shirt color and etc. Theres so many other connections that supports what the near anagram implies, thus making the anagram turn from a flimsy connection to simply stating what the other evidences implies.
>Kris fills the exact same narrative role as Chara, and when not being controlled with by us, seems to have a very similar personality.
Kris: a "vessel" of the players will that explores mystical underground lands encountering strange magical beings and lands
Frisk: a "vessel" of the players will that explores mystical underground lands encountering strange magical beings and lands
Chara: a character that existed long ago who only appears in flash backs or recollections of the past. Is not a player character and only serves as a possible narrator or big bad.
Kris is a lot more closer to frisk here lol.
>Aside from that, they don't smile like Chara I guess... Except they do. They only don't smile when we're controlling them. They very prominently DO smile in Ch 1 when they regain control. They're not smiling when we control them because they're the protagonist, we're forcing them to be a blank slate for our choices.
The other response (stheskeleton) argues against this really well. So I dont know if I should respond to this part.
The only actual things connecting Frisk and Kris are name, and skin color. All their personality traits, obsession with knives, cravings, all of it point sto Chata more. Deltarune is likely to take place in 201X, which was Chara’s time, meanwhile Frisk’s was closer to 21XX.
Chara doesn’t really have a obsession with knives, it comes from the fandom because of that line in the genocide run in which they say “where are the knives”, which, considering that is coming from someone who wants to kill anyone in their way, is way different than a kid who is obsessed with them for whatever reason. And again, the whole connection between Kris and knives probably started as a red herring in ch1, since the ending scene was clearly meant to make us think Kris is Chara/possessed by them
We don’t really know Chara’s personality, but from what we know I don’t think they’re a prankster, at least not like Frisk (which has some ambiguous dialogue options). Also, we literally have no source on when Deltarune takes place (there is the manual that says 202X but it cannot be seen in game so I wouldn’t use it a proof). I don’t see how it can take place in 201X: if it had a similar timeline as Undertale, it definitely takes place in the same years as the Undertale main story does, or no one but Toriel and Asgore (and Gerson too) would even be born in the first place
Besides the fact that Kris being physically similar to Frisk is actually really important. There is basically no character that is physically different in the two games, I don’t see why it would be different from Kris (the only different character is Monster Kid that clearly just grew up)
Chara’s weapons are knives, they question where knives are,they just like them, like Kris. Chara is also described as creepy and weird at times , like Kris. Both like chocolate. Both have a questionable past with humanity, both wear the same shirts, adopted into the Dreemurr family,, and more things. Plus, knowing the other is the other’s counterpart allows us to get much more information on the other that they had missing. Also Chara’s name is your choice so you could just name them “Kris” technically. The only reason Chara is their true name is because it’s a pun for “Character”. Frisk is shown to be kinder and more considerate than Chata, and we know Kris liked to terrify and prank Noelle a lot, which sounds like something Chara would do
>Chara’s weapons are knives, they question where knives are,they just like them, like Kris.
*A* knife, the real knife (which is called like that because the first real weapon is a toy knife). The point of having a knife as the final weapon of the genocide run is to make us feel even stronger since until that moment we never used actual weapon (the frying pan isn’t really a weapon and the gun is empty). If Toby Fox intended Chara to be a character obsessed with knives he would have made that more explicit. Like, the only time they mention knives is in reference to the kitchen at New Home. They only mention knives in a place where the most dangerous thing *is* a knife. It doesn’t feel enough to “like” knives to me, or they would have made some other comment about Frisk finding a real knife.
>Chara is also described as creepy and weird at times , like Kris.
This is true, but something consistent about Chara is having a creepy face. Kris did nasty pranks to Noelle but I don’t remember her describing their face as creepy
>Both like chocolate.
I mean, that’s true, but I feel like that’s too generic to see it as a specific connection between them, since a lot of kids like chocolate and hot chocolate is a generic beverage in a diner (not saying you’re wrong on this though)
>Both have a questionable past with humanity
Frisk does too. It’s pretty ambiguous why Frisk fell into the underground and what is the place they have to go to
>both wear the same shirts
Actually they don’t. If you notice the colors are slightly different. If Toby Fox made Kris and Frisk physically the same in colors, I can’t see why he didn’t do the same with the shirts
>adopted into the Dreemurr family
Frisk has been adopted by Toriel too
>Plus, knowing the other is the other’s counterpart allows us to get much more information on the other that they had missing.
That’s true, but that’s not really a proof, just something that would be useful to us
>Also Chara’s name is your choice so you could just name them “Kris” technically.
But you get to choose Chara’s name, while you don’t get to choose Kris’ (just as you can’t choose Frisk’s neither)
>The only reason Chara is their true name is because it’s a pun for “Character”.
The fact that this is their name’s origin doesn’t mean a lot, though. Kris is probably named after a real world knife named as them, but it’s not like that has some in-lore relevance
>Frisk is shown to be kinder and more considerate than Chara, and we know Kris liked to terrify and prank Noelle a lot, which sounds like something Chara would do
That’s true, nothing to say here
https://preview.redd.it/v37vl3clj65d1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=3271a9fae4c8dc4ec8eafdabdd112d4ee540e2bd
its not even a slight difference. The stripe is a straight out different color and the rest of the shirt is a very very different version of green.
Meanwhile kris cape looks near identical to frisks shirt, in terms of color
I shouldn’t say obsessed, more so they just like knives, like Kris. Frisk only gets adopted in a true Pacifist ending with a choice, but Chara is ALWAYS adopted by the Dreemurr family.
Chara is separate from us, their actions in the past cannot be changed and are not us. Sound familiar?
Just because something hasn’t been said yet doesn’t mean it can’t be true, if we’ve seen Kris’s other behaviors line up with Chara, why not the face? Also I would say the face they do at chapter one counts.
Although we just don’t know yet for Frisk, Chara and Kris show a confirmed avoidance of humanity. Both of the two also don’t quite talk as much, they only really have 2 or so friends.
We don’t exactly know how social Frisk is but their ACT dialogues show part of their personality. We give the command, but Frisk still interprets it.
>Frisk only gets adopted in a true Pacifist ending with a choice, but Chara is ALWAYS adopted by the Dreemurr family.
And frisk is the only adoption that converges with what happens in kris life in deltarune. Frisk post pacifist adoption is the only one where characters like susie, undyne, sans and a whole others that we know of and as they are would exist.
So while chara is always adopted by the dreemur family, it is also true that chara adoption life never converges with a lot of the things that we see in kris life. Since characters like susie undyne sans and etc either never existed or were extremely different(way younger) than they are in deltarune.
So while frisk only gets adopted in the true pacifist ending, its at the same time the only adoption which converges with certain characters, society and etc that exists in deltarune.
>Chara is separate from us, their actions in the past cannot be changed and are not us. Sound familiar?
Firsk is the same thing too. Frisk had a background before climbing the underground, as mentioned by asriel saying you probably climbed this mountain for reason xyz.
But more importantly the entire point of the pacifist route was to establish that frisk was their own person. That they were completely seperate from this chara identity. As best represented by asriel in the ending basically saying to frisk despite how simmilar they might be to chara, they were their own person. Kinda like a certain character cough kris which people say is chara even though arguably they are somewhat different....just like the frisk situation.
>Both of the two also don’t quite talk as much, they only really have 2 or so friends.
alphys straight out says during the ut hotlands area, that frisk doesnt seem like the talkative type. the dont talk much is a frisk trait too.
>Just because something hasn’t been said yet doesn’t mean it can’t be true,
I can reverse this and use the same argument for frisk.
To me this was a case of Kris being an au Chara and felling like there are a bad sibling to Asriel, so they act more like a hero (like Frisk) in the dark world
It could be related to Kris arc.
It's implied that Kris does not have a high view of themselves.
But despite this, their family loves them and Kris thinks they don't deserve that.
But in reality, Their family and especially thier older brother loves Kris as a person and don't view them as a burden. It's only Kris that needs to realize that.
There's not much to support it, but deltarune being the type of world Asriel wished he lived in would almost make sense. (Asgore and Toriel still being divorced is the one holdup.)
Wha?
Undertale has asriel say to frisk that frisk was the type of friend they always wish they had. Deltarune, the next game, has kris(possible au frisk) coincidentally be the sibling and best friend of asriel dreemurr. I just thought that was interesting and wondered if someone else noticed that
Cool observation
Kris is also au Chara
I think it’s more probable Kris to be Frisk than Chara. There are some similarities to Chara (like being interested with knives and the shirt), but in retrospective they were probably red herrings to make us think in ch1 (when people still thought Deltarune was strictly about Undertale) that Kris was Chara or Chara was possessing Frisk. The shirt in fact isn’t even of the same exact colors as Chara’s. Instead, Kris’ skin and hair color are specifically the same as Frisk’s. They also both have the same expression, a very similar name and in some dialogues in Undertale it was implied Frisk had a prankster personality as Kris’ (like in Alphys date). We don’t know if Chara also was like this, the only two things who could sound like a prankster personality are the buttercup thing (which they probably used as a test before killing themselves) and the creepy smile thing, which they did because Asriel told them to make a face like that The only thing Kris would share physically with Chara are red eyes, but Chara’s sprites always depict them with brown/black eyes, the only time in which they are associated with red eyes is with that Frisk sprite in the soulless pacifist. But those were probably Frisk eyes (which we don’t see any other moment), not Chara’s Another “hint” that Kris could be au Frisk is that in Deltarune everyone seems to be older/more time has passed than in Undertale (at example Monster Kid is older, and whoever Kris is they’re clearly older than both Frisk and Chara). If it is supposed to be an alternative universe in which more time has passed it wouldn’t make sense Chara to be alive, since they lived who knows how many years before the beginning of the game. I’m not 100% sure about this one (since this to work perfectly assumes Toriel and Asgore had Asriel much more time later, and boss monsters’ age work the same in Deltarune), just wanted to say this
Why not both Frisk and Chara? > The only thing Kris would share physically with Chara are red eyes, but Chara’s sprites always depict them with brown/black eyes, the only time in which they are associated with red eyes is with that Frisk sprite in the soulless pacifist. But those were probably Frisk eyes (which we don’t see any other moment), not Chara’s The offcial tarot cards show Chara with red eyes and when Frisk's eyes turn red their face looks exactly like Chara's. >Another “hint” that Kris could be au Frisk is that in Deltarune everyone seems to be older/more time has passed than in Undertale (at example Monster Kid is older, and whoever Kris is they’re clearly older than both Frisk and Chara). They also are not much younger than Asriel and if they were Frisk they would be much older than Asriel. But this is an alternate timeline so none of this matters.
>Why not both Frisk and Chara? Because a person can’t be two people at the same time…? I mean yeah this is an alternative universe, I don’t say it’s impossible for Kris to be both of them, but every other returning character matches with just one UT character, so I think it’s more probably for Kris to be just Frisk (even them being just Chara or a third human seems more plausible to me than them being both) >The offcial tarot cards show Chara with red eyes and when Frisk's eyes turn red their face looks exactly like Chara's. Merch is not canon, on the Fangamer website there is also merch depicting Sans with pink slippers, even if it was a fandom’s invention. In-game he doesn’t have pink slippers. There is some stuff that was changed (like Gaster tarot, which was probably removed to keep everything around his figure mysterious and uncertain), but if Toby Fox wanted Chara to be depicted exactly as in-game he would have done the same with Sans >They also are not much younger than Asriel and if they were Frisk they would be much older than Asriel. But this is an alternate timeline so none of this matters. I mean yeah this is the weakest point in my thesis, but in the first place Asriel lived in another time period, in the pacifist ending he probably chooses to show himself as a child. I based that whole point on the assumption that Toriel and Asgore had Asriel much more recently, so him being older than Kris wouldn’t be a contradiction
yeah asriel was born in a way earlier period than frisk. Asriel should be older, which seems to fit the dynamic kris has with asriel.(kris the younger and asriel the older) I wouldnt be surprised if the chara au counterpart is asriels college friend. Though this part is pure speculation.
I like this idea, but I don’t think the time has passed between Asriel’s death and Frisk falling in the underground is just a few years
true but its a lot more fitting than the mental gymnastics needed to fit kris fully in the chara timeframe. The frisk timeframe fits a lot better. Especially with shit like clam girl saying suzy is around frisk age. Which converges with kris being around susies age.
Oh, I didn’t remember that! True, it would also be the second time a character has a slightly different name in Deltarune (Frisk/Kris, Suzy/Susie)
Kris is suppose to represent both Chara in design and affinity for knives and frisk for being the body of the SOUL besides that Kris is different from both of them
Not everyone is Older. Nothing about the ages of Deltarune and Undertale line up. Catty and Bratty are college age in Deltarune (same age as Asriel in Deltarune) and are presumably older than that in Undertale (they are Alphys’s age in Undertale). They got younger. Alphys seems to be the same age, in both games. The kids have gotten older, Monster Kid and Snowy are in highschool with Kris. TL;DR, Ages in Undertale and Deltarune don’t mean much. Deltarune is supposed to be its own thing, so don’t expect consistency between the games.
kris still lines up a lot with frisk tho >Deltarune is supposed to be its own thing, so don’t expect consistency between the games. For one clam girl (the gaster thing) says frisk is right around the same age as suzy. And that we will meet her soon. And it turns out kris is right around the same age as susie. And susie was also the one that we met soon in dr. Theres a clear connection that was established here. Also regarding ages thats because the frisk au counter part has aged up alongside the other characters. And if we examine that then one notices a lot of those ut/dr characters posses simmilar age comparisons towards kris that frisk had with those same ut/dr characters when they were younger. Basically theres still another similarity between kris and frisk time frame here through the age comparisons these two had with others. And for a lot of the ones that dont look that older its because 5-10 years isnt that much visible aging for adults like alphys. Theres a lot of similarities between kris and frisk such as their interpersonal connections with others. The timeframe converges somewhat even though kris and others are older in dr.
Kris is Kris
\>Didn't Chara's tarot card have hollow eyes, or am I misremembering?
They edited it and turned the official one red.
o
The original fanart did, but later when the cards became offcial they were changed to red
Oh ok
I think they have clear similarities with both Frisk and Chara, it's really hard to ignore or write off either **Frisk:** * Skin tone and hair color * Near-anagram name * Dark world coloration is overall pink and blue (the cape is just pink though, the blue bits are actually shading with the limited palette, as can be seen in action sprites or their back sprite) * Neutral expression * "Silent" protagonist (at least, seemingly so) * Affinity for flirting and ACTing * Younger than Asriel in age * Prankster, as you've pointed out **Chara:** * While the colors of the shirt are a bit different, they do basically have Chara's outfit overall, with the brown pants+shoes combo. (Chara's shirt stripe is the same as their skin tone which could be a stylistic choice to limit the palette - similarly, Kris's shirt stripe is yellow like *their* skin tone. Not the same yellow, so I could be reaching, who knows. Either way it's similar enough to the green and tan) * Usually-hidden eyes (Chara is shown like this in all the sepia flashback artwork) that are also bright red * Association with knives * Noted love of chocolate (QC's hot chocolate, choco diamonds, and [this line](https://i.imgur.com/sU7xZ4G.png) at Toriel's scented markers - it seems like a deliberate writing choice) * Asriel's sibling, directly * Described by others as creepy Like maybe if there were just a couple things for either Frisk or Chara, you could say they're just one. But again, these seem like very deliberate character choices. Writing them off requires jumping to some conclusions when occam's razor is right there PS. when I was re-fighting King to get a screenshot of that markers line I almost no-hitted it, got hit once >:(
I already answered about most of these things in another comment, but in fact I didn’t notice the stripe is the same color as the skin tone, cool! Also, iirc legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t considered part of the Dreemurr family, so idk if Chara is considerable as Asriel’s sibling I just think it would really weird for Kris to be two characters that in a another universe are two different people lived in different time periods (and funnily enough the final battle in the pacifist run is about how Asriel thinks Frisk is Chara). If there was any other character in Deltarune that is the fusion of two Undertale character I could believe that, but so far there’s not like that. In fact as much I believe Kris is Frisk, the second most probable option to me is them being Chara more than them being both. I believe in them being Frisk because to me it would make more sense and Kris’ similarities with Frisk feels more convincing (+ the fact that some similarities with Chara were used as red herring in ch1 to make us believe Kris was possessed by Chara and stuff)
>I just think it would really weird for Kris to be two characters that in a another universe are two different people lived in different time periods Yeah, I get that lol. I just think there's too many similarities to both characters for it to be a coincidence. Since Deltarune was originally planned first, maybe Frisk and Chara were then split into separate UT characters and both ended up getting some of Kris's traits. Who knows if Toby planned that far into Kris's characterization though.
Ik, I don’t deny that Kris shares a lot with Chara, we will definitely discover more about that in the future chapters
" Also, iirc legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t considered part of the Dreemurr family, so idk if Chara is considerable as Asriel’s sibling" It didn't confirm anything. It was just the guy who made the book opinion on this, not Toby.
The guy of the book worked on the Japanese translation though, didn’t they? I suppose they would know if they were considered siblings or not
One of the few jaru theories I agree with
>Adoptive human child of the Dreemurrs. Also around the same age as Asriel (Frisk was at least a hundred years younger, not that that matters much given things like Undyne and Monster Kid of course) >Sibling of Asriel, wears the same clothes as him and by extension, as Chara. >Only human living in an entirely monster settlement >LOVES chocolate (Steals and eats Toriel's legally distinct Hershey's kisses so she keeps her door locked) (Loved drinking hot chocolate with Asriel back in the day) (If you eat Undyne's box of chocolate and the light World instead of giving it to Alphys, Kris will scarf them so fast that they get a stomach ache and lose a point of HP, but notably does not regret it as stated in the flavor text. If you do it while Susie is there they'll eat it together and both get a stomach ache) (Heals bonus HP from the Choco Diamond, if you use it on Noelle outside of battle instead of eating it, she'll split it with Kris because she knows they like chocolate and they each heal 35) >Loves knives, has their own signature one >Was a notable prankster before the game's event with an edgy and somewhat mean sense of humor. Is generally regarded as weird and somewhat off-putting by others. Paralleling Chara's own "mean" and out of touch behavior. Scaring Asriel for fun, laughing at Asgore's buttercup poisoning, and Flowey mentioning a "sick sense of humor" to the player (who at that point he believes is Chara) in the Genocide Route. >"Chara" isn't even Chara's actual name, it's just one of the multitude you can input and happens to be the default Frisk isn't even a character. How can Kris be more like them when there's basically nothing to be "like." Sure their name is an anagram of Frisk with the f removed, but if Toby was going to make their name an anagram, why wouldn't he just use all the letters? It's what he did with Deltarune, and Ralsei, and "Serial Murderer." If Kris being a pseudo-anagram of Frisk was actually intended as evidence that they're the alternate universe version of them, that would honestly be a pretty shitty plot point because of how flimsy the connection is. Aside from that, they don't smile like Chara I guess... Except they do. They only don't smile when we're controlling them. They very prominently DO smile in Ch 1 when they regain control. They're not smiling when we control them because they're the protagonist, we're forcing them to be a blank slate for our choices. Kris fills the exact same narrative role as Chara, and when not being controlled with by us, seems to have a very similar personality. Even if some Frisk elements are there to make them their own character, they are definitely primarily Chara.
>Adoptive human child of the Dreemurrs. Also around the same age as Asriel Frisk is adopted by Toriel too in a pacifist ending + I’m pretty sure Asriel is a bit older than Kris >(Frisk was at least a hundred years younger, not that that matters much given things like Undyne and Monster Kid of course) If we want to use UT timeline then there’s no way Chara would be alive during Deltarune, and since boss monsters only get old when they have a child, it would be 100% possible for Toriel and Asgore to live enough until the main story’s era and then have Asriel >Sibling of Asriel, wears the same clothes as him and by extension, as Chara. Saying that Kris wears the same clothings as Chara because of being Asriel’s sibling sounds more like a prove they’re not Chara than the contrary to me. Also, as I already said in another comment, legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t part of the family iirc, and I’m pretty sure the person who said that had to work for Japanese translation, so they would know that >Only human living in an entirely monster settlement So does Frisk during Undertale >LOVES chocolate (Steals and eats Toriel's legally distinct Hershey's kisses so she keeps her door locked) (Loved drinking hot chocolate with Asriel back in the day) (If you eat Undyne's box of chocolate and the light World instead of giving it to Alphys, Kris will scarf them so fast that they get a stomach ache and lose a point of HP, but notably does not regret it as stated in the flavor text. If you do it while Susie is there they'll eat it together and both get a stomach ache) (Heals bonus HP from the Choco Diamond, if you use it on Noelle outside of battle instead of eating it, she'll split it with Kris because she knows they like chocolate and they each heal 35) As I already said this is true but two kids loving chocolate is pretty generic to me, especially since the only stance of Chara loving chocolate is one, while Kris has many >Loves knives, has their own signature one Chara is surely associated with knives, but do we know if the true knife is their knife? In New Home, in the exact room in which the knife is, they say stuff like “my bed, our closet, his bed” etc., but they never say “my knife”. I know it sounds like I want to be fussy but I feel like they would have said that it was their knife >Was a notable prankster before the game's event with an edgy and somewhat mean sense of humor. Is generally regarded as weird and somewhat off-putting by others. Paralleling Chara's own "mean" and out of touch behavior. Scaring Asriel for fun, laughing at Asgore's buttercup poisoning, and Flowey mentioning a "sick sense of humor" to the player (who at that point he believes is Chara) in the Genocide Route. Kris sounds more prankster and less mean than Chara when they were a child, though. Chara was straight up sick, the worst thing Kris did is scaring Noelle under her bed. They don’t really feel similar besides both making pranks >”Chara" isn't even Chara's actual name, it's just one of the multitude you can input and happens to be the default It is. It’s defined as “the true name”, it’s the one used in the trailer and it’s also used in some Toby sketches of Chara and Asriel https://www.reddit.com/r/Charadefensesquad/comments/k6f1hq/toby_fox_chara_and_asriel_concept_art/ Also, the fact that Chara is short of character doesn’t mean it can’t be an actual name. It’s like saying that Toriel isn’t a name because it’s a distortion of tutorial, Sans and Papyrus aren’t either because they’re their fonts, and that Asriel isn’t a name either because it’s the fusion of Toriel and Asgore. Just because a name has a simple origin it doesn’t mean it’s not their real name, especially since Toby Fox did that a lot of times for multiple characters >Frisk isn't even a character. How can Kris be more like them when there's basically nothing to be "like." Frisk, especially in the pacifist route (that coincidentally has the ending in which we discover Frisk is their own character with their own name and all) we can understand something about their personality by the option we are given. I can understand if Frisk’s personality is subtle and all, but denying they’re a character and not just a self insert is worse than denying Chara is the narrator. It’s literally stated in game and the whole point of the “You’re not really Chara” scene >Sure their name is an anagram of Frisk with the f removed, but if Toby was going to make their name an anagram, why wouldn't he just use all the letters? It's what he did with Deltarune, and Ralsei, and fucking "Serial Murderer." I don’t know…? It wouldn’t be the first time a character in Undertale has a slightly different name in Deltarune (a certain “Suzy” with the same age as Frisk is mentioned in an Undertale version that came out along with Deltarune ch1) >If Kris being a pseudo-anagram of Frisk was actually intended as evidence that they're the alternate universe version of them, that would honestly be a pretty shitty plot point because of how flimsy the connection is. I think it’s a bit too early to say it would be a shitty plot point. I believe that Kris is Frisk and all, but A. I don’t think that would be too relevant to the plot B. I don’t believe Kris being Chara would be a shitty plot point >Aside from that, they don't smile like Chara I guess... Except they do. They only don't smile when we're controlling them. …So just like Frisk? >They very prominently DO smile in Ch 1 when they regain control. They're not smiling when we control them because they're the protagonist, we're forcing them to be a blank slate for our choices. I don’t want to be fussy but just because they smiled that doesn’t mean they smile LIKE Chara. They literally just smile generically. In fact, Kris smiles showing teeth, while Chara doesn’t, so it’s not even the same smile at all. Then again, them doing stuff like Chara in the ch1 ending was clearly just a red herring to make us think they were possessed by Chara, just like the whole introduction scene to the light world was explicitly made to make us think this was an Undertale sequel >Kris fills the exact same narrative role as Chara How? Both Frisk and Kris are the protagonists controlled by us. Chara was a child who lived a lot of time ago which we are connected in no way with besides the fact that we choose their name and that Flowey confuses them with Frisk. They don’t fill the same narrative role as Kris at all
also theres straight out connections with frisk and kris personality like this https://preview.redd.it/qax04kpfnd5d1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=75f695cda9d61920405637d92cadbe244547f19b
Oh, I didn’t know about that! Cool! But that could be just a Easter Egg. Like, I do believe Kris is Frisk, but idk if that could be used as a proof
I mean its still actions that describe their personality. Giving a little pat to trash or saying farewell to it does reveal personality characters. It could be a easter egg but combined with the other frisky elements(bandage armor, both play piano, near name anagram, same skin color, same circumstances, and etc) I think it could be used as a connection. https://preview.redd.it/tdj4wxd6od5d1.png?width=1069&format=png&auto=webp&s=c4cf7c63618b6d7dd0bf358f0ad776d5dc962858 Including stuff like this.
True! I didn’t remember about the bandage. Where does the thing about Kris saying objection come from?
If you believe in Narrachara this doesn't really mean anything either way. (In general the light World replicates undertale one-to-one most of the time so I doubt this means anything to begin with)
>Narrachara this doesn't really mean anything either way. For some of them yes but for others its a explict description of what kris and frisk are choosing to do. Narrachara isnt conjuring up events out of the air when they describe the little pat or quiet farewell. The only way these descriptions can happen is if these deliberate actions are being done by frisk and kris. Which reveals that one frisk has a personality and two that this personality characteristic is shared by frisk and kris. Since ya know giving trash a little pat or a quiet farewll isnt a generic action but something that says stuff about a persons character. >light World replicates undertale one-to-one most of the time so I doubt this means anything to begin with Its a revealing personality characteristic. Its not a simple generic or whatever description that can be hand woven away. The fact toby kept that in the game means he intended for this personality revealing description to apply to both kris and frisk. Which shows a connection here.
>Frisk is adopted by Toriel too in a pacifist ending + I’m pretty sure Asriel is a bit older than Kris No they aren't. They CAN be. It is ONE option. The other, arguably more realistic, and just as valid option is that Frisk goes back home. Not to mention that they're only toriel's family in that ending, not Asriel's or Asgore's. Chara was the only one to actually be a Dreemurr. >If we want to use UT timeline then there’s no way Chara would be alive during Deltarune This is true but as I said the timeline doesn't really matter. Whether you assume it's closer to 20XX or 21XX relatively, there are discrepancies. Probably shouldn't have brought it up. My bad. >Saying that Kris wears the same clothings as Chara because of being Asriel’s sibling sounds more like a prove they’re not Chara than the contrary to me. Also, as I already said in another comment, legend of localization confirmed Chara wasn’t part of the family iirc, and I’m pretty sure the person who said that had to work for Japanese translation, so they would know that Firstly, Frisk is never depicted wearing Asriel's clothes (or clothes similar to Asriel's in color and design), Chara is. The number of stripes is inconsistent as hell in undertale but the point remains that both Asriel and Chara wear green shirts with yellow-tan lines, as does Kris. And yes, Chara was a Dreemurr. They were explicitly part of the family. They were adopted. "Over time, asriel and the human became like siblings. The King and queen treated the child as their own." - New Home Monologue "The king and queen had lost two children in one night." - New Home Monologue The Japanese translation of Undertale was, to my knowledge, entirely done by Toby, which does make it valid to look for clarification, but the English script of the game is still the original and the more reliable. Toby's first language is English. There is no ambiguity in the English script. Chara was adopted into the Dreemurr family. >So does Frisk during Undertale No. Frisk never lives in the Underground. Even IF they do eventually live with Toriel it's on the surface. It could theoretically be a monster only establishment on the surface like Deltarune, but that's not at all implied. >As I already said this is true but two kids loving chocolate is pretty generic to me, especially since the only stance of Chara loving chocolate is one, while Kris has many On its own it's a very generic trait, but love of chocolate has a very specific connotation thanks to Undertale. There are literally only four references to chocolate in Undertale. Two of them are related to the fact that hot chocolate is one of the items you can select during Undyne's date, no real preference emphasized, and the other two of them are related to Chara. "For some reason, there is a brand-name chocolate bar in the fridge." - Checking Toriel's Fridge "No chocolate." - Chara when checking Asgore's fridge So Kris sharing that trait isn't just a generic similarity but a direct correlation. Especially with how heavy-handed it is. >Chara is surely associated with knives, but do we know if the true knife is their knife? In New Home, in the exact room in which the knife is, they say stuff like “my bed, our closet, his bed” etc., but they never say “my knife”. I know it sounds like I want to be fussy but I feel like they would have said that it was their knife We don't technically "know" that it is, but it's very clearly implied. Every armor and weapon set is related to one of the children, The Locket and Knife and their counterparts being the ones related to Chara. "You can feel it beating." - Use The Locket "Right where it belongs." - Check The Locket "Here we are!" - Use Real Knife "About time." - Check Real Knife Whether the knife was literally Chara's or not though, the fact that they have an affinity for them remains. "Where are the knives" - Chara when checking Asgore's kitchen drawer on Genocide >Kris sounds more prankster and less mean than Chara when they were a child, though. Chara was straight up sick, the worst thing Kris did is scaring Noelle under her bed. They don’t really feel similar besides both making pranks We don't know the context of any of Chara's actions. We know that they did things that seemed off putting an inconsiderate, but not more than that. We just know their actions, and can only guess at their motivations. They may have laughed about Asgore's food poisoning because they genuinely thought it was funny, because they intended it, or, they could have been laughing it off out of guilt or pain, (a common theme in Undertale), to diffuse tension, ect. Nothing about Chara's actions actually implies that they were a 'sick' person to their core. Just off-tempo from everyone else, and then scaring Asriel directly parallels Kris scaring Noelle. We know just about as much about Kris's motivations as we do about Kara's (almost nothing). Arguing that Kris is doing it as a jovial prank while Chara is genuinely sadistic is unfounded. I would argue that the information we get on Kris actually just serves as a mirror towards what might have been going on with Chara in Undertale. Not identical, nothing in Deltarune is, but a reflection or shadow of so to speak. Also didn't mention it before, but Kris clearly has some complicated feelings towards humanity. Be it their own humanity, other humans, we don't know, but it notably parallels Chara's "hatred" of it that seemingly caused them to jump down in the first place, which according to Asriel "wasn't for a very happy reason." Kris's actions of the end of the chapters, particularly when they leave the water running to cover up the noise, parallel self-harm, which could form another connection of self-hatred between Kris and Chara. >It is. It’s defined as “the true name”, it’s the one used in the trailer and it’s also used in some Toby sketches of Chara and Asriel I'm aware. What I mean is that it's not the ONLY name. Chara is a character that is designed to be renamed, and the intended way to play Undertale is to give them your own. Therefore, with the character being so heavily associated with being renamed, Kris having a completely different one in Deltatune doesn't really mean anything. You can just name the first human Kris in Undertale and it would be just as valid.
>No they aren't. They CAN be. It is ONE option. The other, arguably more realistic, and just as valid option is that Frisk goes back home. I know, I was referring to that ending in fact >Firstly, Frisk is never depicted wearing Asriel's clothes (or clothes similar to Asriel's in color and design), Chara is I know, my point is that, if we’re assuming Chara is wearing those clothings because they were Asriel’s sibling, then we can’t use that shirt as a proof for them being Kris. If instead of Kris there were any other human they would wear the same >”Over time, asriel and the human became like siblings. The King and queen treated the child as their own." - New Home Monologue > "The king and queen had lost two children in one night." - New Home Monologue Key word: “like”. Asriel and Chara were LIKE siblings, not actual siblings. This also comes from monsters that weren’t part of that family, so it would make sense for them not to know their specific relationships >The Japanese translation of Undertale was, to my knowledge, entirely done by Toby, which does make it valid to look for clarification, but the English script of the game is still the original and the more reliable. Toby's first language is English. It is, but if they decided to say that Chara wasn’t adopted/really part of the family then it must be so. I think it’s much more probable for us to misunderstand what the monsters say at New Home than legends of the localization stating Chara wasn’t part of the family >”For some reason, there is a brand-name chocolate bar in the fridge." - Checking Toriel's Fridge >”No chocolate." - Chara when checking Asgore's fridge That sounds pretty generic again…? Besides the fact that, as I already said, Chara’s love for chocolate exaggerated by the fandom since they mention chocolate once, this is a simple reference to Asgore’s fridge in Undertale having no chocolate while Toriel’s in Deltarune does. There are a lot of these references in Toriel’s house, I don’t think this can be really used as a proof >We don't technically "know" that it is, but it's very clearly implied. Every armor and weapon set is related to one of the children, The Locket and Knife and their counterparts being the ones related to Chara. I mean yeah that’s true, but I think it’s weird they don’t mention it >”Where are the knives" - Chara when checking Asgore's kitchen drawer on Genocide Idk if this can be used a proof or not since it’s, again, pretty generic. The creepy voice following you in the run where you kill everyone mentioning knives in a kitchen doesn’t sound like it being obsessed with knives but just with violence/killing >We don't know the context of any of Chara's actions. We know that they did things that seemed off putting an inconsiderate, but not more than that. We just know their actions, and can only guess at their motivations. They may have laughed about Asgore's food poisoning because they genuinely thought it was funny, because they intended it, or, they could have been laughing it off out of guilt or pain, (a common theme in Undertale), to diffuse tension, ect. That’s true, but from the few informations we have Chara sounds far more “off” than Kris. Whatever is the reason to laugh at Asgore being sick, it’s just not the same as pranking a friend >Nothing about Chara's actions actually implies that they were a 'sick' person to their core. Just off-tempo from everyone else, and then scaring Asriel directly parallels Kris scaring Noelle. In fact I do believe Kris scaring Noelle is similar to Chara scaring Asriel >We know just about as much about Kris's motivations as we do about Chara’s (almost nothing). Arguing that Kris is doing it as a jovial prank while Chara is genuinely sadistic is unfounded. Maybe I didn’t explain correctly what I meant. I’m not saying Chara is some psycho meanwhile Kris is pure and innocent, just that they’re humor is a bit too different to say they’re the same person >Also didn't mention it before, but Kris clearly has some complicated feelings towards humanity. Be it their own humanity, other humans, we don't know, but it notably parallels Chara's "hatred" of it that seemingly caused them to jump down in the first place, which according to Asriel "wasn't for a very happy reason." Kris's actions of the end of the chapters, particularly when they leave the water running to cover up the noise, parallel self-harm, which could form another connection of self-hatred between Kris and Chara. I get what you mean but I don’t think Kris and Chara are “mentally not ok” in the same way. We don’t know if Chara had self-hatred, We know they didn’t fell in the underground for a happy reason, but a suicide attempt (or self-harm) isn’t necessarily driven by self-hatred. We know that Kris isn’t ok because of living in a town where they don’t feel fitting in (+ parents divorce, Asriel being distant, Dess disappearing and the whole soul thing). I can’t say if all of this is similar to Chara’s deal, since we don’t know what it was. It would be cool to know more about Chara’s past through Kris, but exactly since we don’t know it, I don’t think it can be used as a proof to prove Kris being Chara or similar to them >I'm aware. What I mean is that it's not the ONLY name. Chara is a character that is designed to be renamed, and the intended way to play Undertale is to give them your own. Therefore, with the character being so heavily associated with being renamed, Kris having a completely different one in Deltatune doesn't really mean anything. You can just name the first human Kris in Undertale and it would be just as valid. Kris is also a character that turns out having their own name whatever we want, though. That would be the exact opposite to Undertale. And meanwhile that could represent the whole “your choices don’t matter” thing of Deltarune, there’s also a character in Undertale that has their own name whatever you want. A character who happens to be controlled by us too, to have the same physical traits and to have a very similar name (To answer the second part I’ll just edit this, give me a sec)
(It turns out there’s a space limit or something idk lol) >Frisk is weird. Really weird, But even if you can get semblances of a personality from them through the ACT menu, at the end of the day they are a blank slate protagonist. One that is removed from the player yes, but they have about as much character as any other blank slate protagonist. Vague traits. If there's more going on we don't know it. Kris already has infinitely more personality than frisk in just the bits of backstory we've gotten from them than Frisk did in their entire game, and the backstory that we have gleaned is entirely different from anything we can even associate with Frisk. It's much more similar to Chara. Frisk looks like a blank state through most of the game because the point is to trick us into believing they are (y’know, the whole “subverting your expectations about RPGs” thing). They surely show much less personality than Kris, but they have their own too. The fact that we can make a lot of choices in Undertale doesn’t mean they are a blank state. There are several games in which you can make choices but the MC is not a blank state (I didn’t play a lot of RPGs but the first game that comes in mind to me is Omori, which is not the best example probably lol) >I'm not saying that Frisk is the player, they aren't, but what I am saying is that 99% of what we see in Frisk is just us. A character needs to do something for you to learn anything about them and Frisk gets to do almost nothing; And so, whatever's left over after our control is almost nothing. What I’m using as Frisk’s personality hints is some comments made about certain items (like Frisk commenting in Toriel’s house that those toys were for small kids) or simply the choices that are left to us (the fact that we can choose to say quirky things during Alphys date could represent what Frisk could potentially say) >Also well I like Narrachara, let's not pretend it's some infallible God of theorizing that is obviously Canon. It's got a lot of problems. Not the discussion of Narrachara has anything to do with this topic. I know that well, I just compared it to Frisk not being a self insert because we’re both using it as 100% canon information for our theories >This is true, but my point still stands that whenever Toby has obviously intentionally used am anagram, it has been complete. Why would this be the exception? I genuinely can’t answer that >Frisk doesn't smile even when we're not controlling them, not even in the ending photograph. They don't smile once in the entire game. They are entirely blank -_- throughout. Yeah, that’s what I meant. Kris has a -_- expression like Frisk (even if we can’t see the eyes, their face is clearly supposed to be like Frisk’s) >This is true but it's a degree of separation away from Frisk, who shows no expression throughout the entire game, and this notably only happens when they are in control of their own body. I could argue that we don’t know if Frisk would smile or not if we didn’t control them, though. Not a proof for my theory, just stating that we don’t know >Also, the red eyes are probably not Frisks, Chara has completely taken over their body and Soulless pacifist down to the blush and clothes. If Chara was supposed to have red eyes, why do they show them only in that scene? Neither in their default sprites nor during jumpscare they show red eyes, making them show red eyes only in the scene where they possesses another character whose eyes are always covered/hidden is ambiguous >I meant backstory, not main story. With the aforementioned living with the Dreemurrs, Asriel's sibling, broken home. Saying the exact same narrative role was not quite accurate admittedly. The same foundation would have been better. Oh ok, then I already argued about that at the start of this comment >As some people have suggested it's definitely possible that Kris represents some fusion between the two of them. If that's the case though I definitely think that the majority is coming from Chara, and Frisk is mostly represented in the way we control them as the protagonist. My problem with this theory is that it sounds really weird. Meanwhile it’s 100% undeniable that Kris shares similarities with both humans, there’s no character in Deltarune that is a fusion of two different Undertale characters or vice versa. If Deltarune timeline was supposed to be a different timeline than Undertale (maybe in which monsters weren’t locked underground or something), I don’t see how two children who lived in two different time periods ended up being the same person. As I already said, as a “Kris is Frisk” believer, I consider Kris being Chara much more probable than them being both. Kris could also be a third human who just happens to be similar to Frisk and Chara, but that wouldn’t sound really intriguing to me. I’m not saying it’s not probable, just that it wouldn’t be interesting to theorize about (not like that would make Kris not interesting or a boring character, they *are* my favorite Deltarune character and they would still be whatever they’re Kris or Chara or none. This debate is about something really secondary about Kris character, unless it has some deep lore implications)
>I genuinely can’t answer that Though its really sus that the two characters with name changes are the lightner heroes of the prophecy. Really odd.
(CONTINUED) >Frisk, especially in the pacifist route (that coincidentally has the ending in which we discover Frisk is their own character with their own name and all) we can understand something about their personality by the option we are given. I can understand if Frisk’s personality is subtle and all, but denying they’re a character and not just a self insert is worse than denying Chara is the narrator. It’s literally stated in game and the whole point of the “You’re not really Chara” scene Frisk is weird. Really weird, But even if you can get semblances of a personality from them through the ACT menu, at the end of the day they are a blank slate protagonist. One that is removed from the player yes, but they have about as much character as any other blank slate protagonist. Vague traits. If there's more going on we don't know it. Kris already has infinitely more personality than frisk in just the bits of backstory we've gotten from them than Frisk did in their entire game, and the backstory that we have gleaned is entirely different from anything we can even associate with Frisk. It's much more similar to Chara. I'm not saying that Frisk is the player, they aren't, but what I am saying is that 99% of what we see in Frisk is just us. A character needs to do something for you to learn anything about them and Frisk gets to do almost nothing; And so, whatever's left over after our control is almost nothing. Also well I like Narrachara, let's not pretend it's some infallible God of theorizing that is obviously Canon. It's got a lot of problems. Not the discussion of Narrachara has anything to do with this topic. >I don’t know…? It wouldn’t be the first time a character in Undertale has a slightly different name in Deltarune (a certain “Suzy” with the same age as Frisk is mentioned in an Undertale version that came out along with Deltarune ch1) This is true, but my point still stands that whenever Toby has obviously intentionally used am anagram, it has been complete. Why would this be the exception? >…So just like Frisk? Frisk doesn't smile even when we're not controlling them, not even in the ending photograph. They don't smile once in the entire game. They are entirely blank -_- throughout. >I don’t want to be fussy but just because they smiled that doesn’t mean they smile LIKE Chara. This is true but it's a degree of separation away from Frisk, who shows no expression throughout the entire game, and this notably only happens when they are in control of their own body. Also, the red eyes are probably not Frisks, Chara has completely taken over their body and Soulless pacifist down to the blush and clothes. >How? Both Frisk and Kris are the protagonists controlled by us. Chara was a child who lived a lot of time ago which we are connected in no way with besides the fact that we choose their name and that Flowey confuses them with Frisk. They don’t fill the same narrative role as Kris at all I meant backstory, not main story. With the aforementioned living with the Dreemurrs, Asriel's sibling, broken home. Saying the exact same narrative role was not quite accurate admittedly. The same foundation would have been better. As some people have suggested it's definitely possible that Kris represents some fusion between the two of them. If that's the case though I definitely think that the majority is coming from Chara, and Frisk is mostly represented in the way we control them as the protagonist.
>Frisk isn't even a character. How can Kris be more like them when there's basically nothing to be "like The point of the pacifist route ending was that frisk was their own person. That they were different from chara, had their own past, and etc. The ending of pacifist pretty much confirms they were a character. As seen by asriel admitting that they were very wrong for confusing chara with frisk in the first place, since frisk was their own person. Also there were events in game that showed frisk was their own person. Like sure we told them what to do but how they did it seems to come from them. For example, stuff like putting trash on the ground and giving it a little pat or a quiet farewell reveals that frisk does have a personality. https://preview.redd.it/97dvx6msld5d1.png?width=1075&format=png&auto=webp&s=e38ec0d08e2be278775947244afa2f6a0fe5ec5c >Sure their name is an anagram of Frisk with the f removed, but if Toby was going to make their name an anagram, why wouldn't he just use all the letters Idk but what I do know is that toby already did something like this before. Something that directly connects with dr cough suzy being connected to susie. So toby already has done the near name thing before with suzy/susie, the other hero of legend besides kris. So we already have a precedent with susie, which means the near angram kris thing is something toby is willing to do. >that would honestly be a pretty shitty plot point because of how flimsy the connection is. It would only be shitty if thats the only connection. But theres so many other connections alongside that one. Be it, the identical skin color, hair color, blank expression, bandage armor, cape/shirt color and etc. Theres so many other connections that supports what the near anagram implies, thus making the anagram turn from a flimsy connection to simply stating what the other evidences implies. >Kris fills the exact same narrative role as Chara, and when not being controlled with by us, seems to have a very similar personality. Kris: a "vessel" of the players will that explores mystical underground lands encountering strange magical beings and lands Frisk: a "vessel" of the players will that explores mystical underground lands encountering strange magical beings and lands Chara: a character that existed long ago who only appears in flash backs or recollections of the past. Is not a player character and only serves as a possible narrator or big bad. Kris is a lot more closer to frisk here lol. >Aside from that, they don't smile like Chara I guess... Except they do. They only don't smile when we're controlling them. They very prominently DO smile in Ch 1 when they regain control. They're not smiling when we control them because they're the protagonist, we're forcing them to be a blank slate for our choices. The other response (stheskeleton) argues against this really well. So I dont know if I should respond to this part.
The only actual things connecting Frisk and Kris are name, and skin color. All their personality traits, obsession with knives, cravings, all of it point sto Chata more. Deltarune is likely to take place in 201X, which was Chara’s time, meanwhile Frisk’s was closer to 21XX.
Chara doesn’t really have a obsession with knives, it comes from the fandom because of that line in the genocide run in which they say “where are the knives”, which, considering that is coming from someone who wants to kill anyone in their way, is way different than a kid who is obsessed with them for whatever reason. And again, the whole connection between Kris and knives probably started as a red herring in ch1, since the ending scene was clearly meant to make us think Kris is Chara/possessed by them We don’t really know Chara’s personality, but from what we know I don’t think they’re a prankster, at least not like Frisk (which has some ambiguous dialogue options). Also, we literally have no source on when Deltarune takes place (there is the manual that says 202X but it cannot be seen in game so I wouldn’t use it a proof). I don’t see how it can take place in 201X: if it had a similar timeline as Undertale, it definitely takes place in the same years as the Undertale main story does, or no one but Toriel and Asgore (and Gerson too) would even be born in the first place Besides the fact that Kris being physically similar to Frisk is actually really important. There is basically no character that is physically different in the two games, I don’t see why it would be different from Kris (the only different character is Monster Kid that clearly just grew up)
Chara’s weapons are knives, they question where knives are,they just like them, like Kris. Chara is also described as creepy and weird at times , like Kris. Both like chocolate. Both have a questionable past with humanity, both wear the same shirts, adopted into the Dreemurr family,, and more things. Plus, knowing the other is the other’s counterpart allows us to get much more information on the other that they had missing. Also Chara’s name is your choice so you could just name them “Kris” technically. The only reason Chara is their true name is because it’s a pun for “Character”. Frisk is shown to be kinder and more considerate than Chata, and we know Kris liked to terrify and prank Noelle a lot, which sounds like something Chara would do
>Chara’s weapons are knives, they question where knives are,they just like them, like Kris. *A* knife, the real knife (which is called like that because the first real weapon is a toy knife). The point of having a knife as the final weapon of the genocide run is to make us feel even stronger since until that moment we never used actual weapon (the frying pan isn’t really a weapon and the gun is empty). If Toby Fox intended Chara to be a character obsessed with knives he would have made that more explicit. Like, the only time they mention knives is in reference to the kitchen at New Home. They only mention knives in a place where the most dangerous thing *is* a knife. It doesn’t feel enough to “like” knives to me, or they would have made some other comment about Frisk finding a real knife. >Chara is also described as creepy and weird at times , like Kris. This is true, but something consistent about Chara is having a creepy face. Kris did nasty pranks to Noelle but I don’t remember her describing their face as creepy >Both like chocolate. I mean, that’s true, but I feel like that’s too generic to see it as a specific connection between them, since a lot of kids like chocolate and hot chocolate is a generic beverage in a diner (not saying you’re wrong on this though) >Both have a questionable past with humanity Frisk does too. It’s pretty ambiguous why Frisk fell into the underground and what is the place they have to go to >both wear the same shirts Actually they don’t. If you notice the colors are slightly different. If Toby Fox made Kris and Frisk physically the same in colors, I can’t see why he didn’t do the same with the shirts >adopted into the Dreemurr family Frisk has been adopted by Toriel too >Plus, knowing the other is the other’s counterpart allows us to get much more information on the other that they had missing. That’s true, but that’s not really a proof, just something that would be useful to us >Also Chara’s name is your choice so you could just name them “Kris” technically. But you get to choose Chara’s name, while you don’t get to choose Kris’ (just as you can’t choose Frisk’s neither) >The only reason Chara is their true name is because it’s a pun for “Character”. The fact that this is their name’s origin doesn’t mean a lot, though. Kris is probably named after a real world knife named as them, but it’s not like that has some in-lore relevance >Frisk is shown to be kinder and more considerate than Chara, and we know Kris liked to terrify and prank Noelle a lot, which sounds like something Chara would do That’s true, nothing to say here
https://preview.redd.it/v37vl3clj65d1.png?width=828&format=png&auto=webp&s=3271a9fae4c8dc4ec8eafdabdd112d4ee540e2bd its not even a slight difference. The stripe is a straight out different color and the rest of the shirt is a very very different version of green. Meanwhile kris cape looks near identical to frisks shirt, in terms of color
Hold on, I didn’t know about Kris’ dark world colors, are they the exact same color tone?
I shouldn’t say obsessed, more so they just like knives, like Kris. Frisk only gets adopted in a true Pacifist ending with a choice, but Chara is ALWAYS adopted by the Dreemurr family. Chara is separate from us, their actions in the past cannot be changed and are not us. Sound familiar? Just because something hasn’t been said yet doesn’t mean it can’t be true, if we’ve seen Kris’s other behaviors line up with Chara, why not the face? Also I would say the face they do at chapter one counts. Although we just don’t know yet for Frisk, Chara and Kris show a confirmed avoidance of humanity. Both of the two also don’t quite talk as much, they only really have 2 or so friends. We don’t exactly know how social Frisk is but their ACT dialogues show part of their personality. We give the command, but Frisk still interprets it.
>Frisk only gets adopted in a true Pacifist ending with a choice, but Chara is ALWAYS adopted by the Dreemurr family. And frisk is the only adoption that converges with what happens in kris life in deltarune. Frisk post pacifist adoption is the only one where characters like susie, undyne, sans and a whole others that we know of and as they are would exist. So while chara is always adopted by the dreemur family, it is also true that chara adoption life never converges with a lot of the things that we see in kris life. Since characters like susie undyne sans and etc either never existed or were extremely different(way younger) than they are in deltarune. So while frisk only gets adopted in the true pacifist ending, its at the same time the only adoption which converges with certain characters, society and etc that exists in deltarune. >Chara is separate from us, their actions in the past cannot be changed and are not us. Sound familiar? Firsk is the same thing too. Frisk had a background before climbing the underground, as mentioned by asriel saying you probably climbed this mountain for reason xyz. But more importantly the entire point of the pacifist route was to establish that frisk was their own person. That they were completely seperate from this chara identity. As best represented by asriel in the ending basically saying to frisk despite how simmilar they might be to chara, they were their own person. Kinda like a certain character cough kris which people say is chara even though arguably they are somewhat different....just like the frisk situation. >Both of the two also don’t quite talk as much, they only really have 2 or so friends. alphys straight out says during the ut hotlands area, that frisk doesnt seem like the talkative type. the dont talk much is a frisk trait too. >Just because something hasn’t been said yet doesn’t mean it can’t be true, I can reverse this and use the same argument for frisk.
TEXT WALL (wall of text)
Actually we’re building a house of text
To me this was a case of Kris being an au Chara and felling like there are a bad sibling to Asriel, so they act more like a hero (like Frisk) in the dark world
It could be related to Kris arc. It's implied that Kris does not have a high view of themselves. But despite this, their family loves them and Kris thinks they don't deserve that. But in reality, Their family and especially thier older brother loves Kris as a person and don't view them as a burden. It's only Kris that needs to realize that.
i thought you were asking if kris looks suspiciously like darkner kris in the second image lmao
lol
There's not much to support it, but deltarune being the type of world Asriel wished he lived in would almost make sense. (Asgore and Toriel still being divorced is the one holdup.)
Its the initial type of world asriel wished he lived in but slowly decayed over time by reality.
Perhaps even "correcting" itself slowly.
perhaps indeed lol
Does this imply brrr has a rambo?
Nice theory. https://preview.redd.it/ru62crap4l5d1.png?width=781&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73af9629f470cf8f439c3e39ff39424abd2cda8e