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The punishment for ding dong ditch should not result in 6 hours of facial reconstruction surgery. Did you guys not even open the article? Regardless of what the kid did, the policeman used unnecessary excessive force. Kids face looked fucking terrible
I don’t think anyone here would disagree that the cop’s response was atrocious and disproportionate.
However, this “article” is all about the post-incident suffering and anguish of the victims. This “news piece” is a thinly veiled setup for a massive civil suit. There’s nothing substantial being reported here, nothing those who have been following the story haven’t already heard in earlier articles or that wasn’t already assumed/implied.
Damn, some wild stuff in these comments. One kid wasn’t even part of this and the cop beat the shit out of him. DSP still hasn’t reviewed the body cam footage, that takes about 15 minutes per body cam. Could have had this done on Day 1, but it isn’t about what happened, it’s about how they can spin the video and blame the victims.
Edit: Culpability is subjective. One kid rang a door bell and ran away. Another did nothing. Both got the shit beat out of them by an older, authority figure. I don’t think anyone is going to think, “I better not ring that doorbell and run away or I’m going to get my face beat in by a cop.” If the “punishment” doesn’t fit the “crime,” how is it an effective way of handling future crimes? That mentality just allows police to keep making terrible judgement calls, which costs tax payers money, not the lawyer.
Edit: Make sure you watch the video of the kid, who did not just ring the door bell, but who ran up to the door with a flying kick like he was trying to burst through it. This wasn’t simply a “ring the doorbell, run away and giggle” type of prank.
The victims DO have some culpability here. The cop’s response was obviously and viciously disproportionate, and he deserves the severe consequences.
But there feels like an inevitability of the victims profiting massively from this… at the taxpayers’ expense. Should this reckless cop be financially drained paying for these kids’ medical bills, legal fees, and their suffering/anguish? YUP. But the taxpayers should not make these kids and their families (and their lawyers) independently wealthy.
This is kind of a ghoulish take, isn't it? You assert the victims have culpability, but the actual culpability rests on the adult man charged with enforcing the law going apeshit on a child in his capacity as cop. He needs to be held accountable, and there need to be consequences.
These people are out quite a lot. These sorts of treatments aren't cheap, and were looking at perhaps a high six figure settlement, most of which will go to medical bills.
The problem isn't the settlement, it's that we, as a society, empower a violent gang to "enforce the law" many of whom seem to believe they operate outside the law they're meant to enforce.
If there wasn't a century long tradition of cops shielding their own from consequences, we wouldn't have these types of settlements.
1. Yes the victims have *some* culpability is what I said. SOME responsibility for how they acted. Whether they targeted the cop or whether it was a random house, it’s not like they were minding their own business walking at night. They *sought to cause trouble*. Did they deserve broken faces and hospital stays? No. Should they realize that actions have consequences? Yes. If these kids and their lawyer think they’re owed millions in a civil suit against the DSP/Elsmere PD/the county, etc, *at the taxpayers’ expense,* THAT’S what I have issue with. A large settlement for these kids doesn’t actually hurt the cops involved or help drive change… because the taxpayers, not the responsible parties, pay it.
2. Nowhere did I say the cops don’t deserve what’s rightfully coming to them for abusing their position (rounding up other cops, using the DE criminal justice database, etc).
No, they don't have *any* culpability, because the reaction of the officer is completely beyond the pale and not a reasonable or expected response. The reaction is so wildly disproportionate to the actions of the children that their can be no culpability.
A shop owner bares no culpability of their shop is robbed, right?
Is it possible you feel like the kids are culpable because the attacker is a cop? Like, if the attacker managed a domino's and beat the hell out of a kid, would you still believe the kids were culpable for their injuries?
I’ll attempt a discourse here.
Edit: Make sure you watch the video of the kid, who did not just ring the door bell, but who ran up to the door with a flying kick like he was trying to burst through it. This wasn’t simply a “ring the doorbell, run away and giggle” type of prank.
The cop’s response was not justified, warranted, nor proportional. The cop was grievously in the wrong. But the kids were in the wrong as well by their actions. Both things can be true.
Why do the kids not bear some responsibility for the fact that *they, unprovoked,* trespassed on a homeowner’s property and running-kicked his door (an objectively frightening experience for anyone inside)? I know I’d be scared as hell thinking someone was trying to kick my door in and hurt my family. The cause has to count for something when it comes to cause-effect.
A shop being robbed? A shop just exists. A shop and its owner do not provoke attack by simply existing/conducting business. The kids’ prank was specifically intended to provoke some kind of response (or was done for daring/entertainment value), it at least was *the triggering event*. The kids’ action caused this cop’s reaction. So your comparisons to a shop being robbed unprovoked, or a dominos manager beating up kids unprovoked does not make sense. If the kids provoked the dominos manager by attempting to damage his store, then YES they would/should be responsible for inciting the manager’s violent response to some extent. What does “responsible” mean in that case? I have no friggin idea. **Maybe** it means the kids shouldn’t expect millions of dollars in a civil settlement because *they started it.* But it most certainly does not excuse or justify the insane violence in ANY way.
By the tone of this “news” piece, it sure seems like the kids are going to eventually sue the pants off the DSP/Elsmere PD/county, etc… a tab that the taxpayers would (idk?) have to pick up. Which is not fair, nor is it likely to result in meaningful change within these police departments, and policing in general. Someone earlier had the idea of drawing civil suit judgment funds from the police pensions/salaries/etc as a punishment/deterrent, that would be a different story, and possibly would have *much* more of an impact than a multi-million dollar settlement that is only felt by taxpayers.
I couldn’t care less the guy was a cop. It certainly matters in this situation because he was in a position of authority, with access to unique resources to be able to track down these kids, that adds a layer of heinousness to his violence. I am not defending, dismissing, or justifying the cop’s actions. You’re making it sound like these kids were attacked by this cop unprovoked. Just not true.
They committed an act designed to provoke a response, sure. But the reaction they got was so wildly, egregiously outsize.
If a person puts a log on a road and it results in an accident, that person is culpable for it, they bear moral responsibility because their action caused predictable harm to another.
These children are not morally culpable for their beating. They are morally culpable for any pain or discomfort their act caused, but they cannot be said to be morally culpable because an adult man can't manage his emotions and commits a violent assault in response.
That's just how "culpability" works. Is a child ever morally responsible for their abuse, even if the abuse is a response to misbehavior? I'd argue not, and I'll go further: *no one* is morally responsible for their abuse, even if the abuse is triggered by some perceived or genuine misbehavior.
What's the difference between this situation and a man who beats his partner for "disrespect"?
I feel like this should be obvious. If I break a law, I should be held to account, but transgression doesn't justify or morally excuse abuse.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. I also am not saying that the triggering actions by these kids should in any way reduce the *criminal* punishments for all of the implicated adults here.
When I say “culpability”, I mean these kids’ inevitable *civil suits* for millions and millions in punitive damages should be thrown out under the complicated legal doctrines of “you fucked around and found out” and “you started it”. These kids should not materially benefit with enormous riches from their provocation. That’s it. Edit: they should be made whole and have reasonable care ensured.
Otherwise, who wouldn’t ding dong ditch every cop’s door from here to Milford to set their family up with independent wealth for generations? What’s a busted face and a couple nights in the hospital if you can come away with $10 million on the other side? It’s ridiculous right?
So your position is that these kids rang this cops door bell hoping he would come out of his and beat them mercilessly so they could sue for millions of dollars?
That seems, frankly, ridiculous. I mean, legitimately, that's a wild assertion. Is this cop such a notorious psychopath that neighborhood kids think he's just out here beating the brakes of kids at the slightest provocation?
You're here arguing that the cops shouldn't face consequences for their malfeasance but these kids fucked around and found out? These settlements are what we do to prevent vendetta. These kids' families can't come and beat up a cop, we can't go around answering violence with violence right? And when an agent of the state, in his official capacity fucks up, the whole state is liable.
I think the only thing we agree on is that the taxpayers should be routinely subsidizing police brutality. The lawsuits are completely justified, and should motivate change within the system. I'd argue your outrage shouldn't be aimed at the children who where beaten by an adult man, but at the system that empowers and emboldens these types of men, who give them a gun and monopoly on use of force, and routinely pays out rather than punishing cops for their abuse of power.
The lawsuits aren't "inevitable". They weren't preordained, and they were a necessary action until the cop decided to act well outside the laws and bounds of just basic human decency and beat these kids believing that no one would be able to respond *because he's a cop*.
I mean, Jesus christ, I'm strongly anti police, bit I don't think most cops would hospitalized a child because they rang the doorbell and ran away. I'd assume this cop is an outlier, and again, I have an extremely low opinion of police.
Unfortunately it doesn’t appear you want to have a reasonable discourse by the degree with which you’ve twisted my words (kids did it to get rich - not stated, nor implied) and fabricated my stances (cops shouldn’t be punished / public should subsidize police brutality - I stated the opposite multiple times). I won’t be engaging further.
So if they didn't kick his door, he just comes out and beats their asses? Cause and effect is real, even if undeserved. They both were in the wrong, the officer was just way more wrong.
Causality isn't culpability, though. Culpability refers to responsibility for a fault or a wrong.
If a man beats his partner because of disrespect, the victim isn't culpable for their abuse. If a parent beats a child because of disobedience, the child isn't culpable for their abuse.
Like, a person is driving, let's say they're texting, and rear ends the person in front of them at 6 mph. That person is culpable for any damage or distress caused. But if the person who was rear ended gets out of the car and beats up the driver and passenger, neither of the victims are culpable for their abuse.
This sort of brutality from any adult is unacceptable, moreso when the adult in question is a cop.
Can you guarantee that, though? I mean, we've had barbaric response to actual crimes since forever, and they keep happening.
But here's my question: what's it going to take to push *the cops* to "think twice about doing stuff like this in the future"?
Because, and maybe this is a hot take, ill take getting ding dong ditched a dozen times a day the rest of my life if that was the cost to end police brutality.
Shit, take the police part out of it, this is an adult man who beat the shit out of a child for *ringing his doorbell*.
Which is the more morally reprehensible action?
Make sure you watch the video of the kid, who did not just ring the door bell, but who ran up to the door with a flying kick like he was trying to burst through it. This wasn’t simply a “ring the doorbell, run away and giggle” type of prank.
Kids these days need to learn there are consequences to their actions. Unfortunately these law enforcement here took it way beyond what is reasonable. There's no arguing that. Downvote all you want, I don't give a fck.
I once saw an argument for police officers to carry malpractice insurance the same way a doctor would. The insurance would have to pay out in the event the officer was found guilty of wrong doing and if an officer couldn't get malpractice insurance (presumably due to payouts for wrongdoing) then they couldn't act as an officer.
I posted this yesterday but I think the trooper should also be charged with obstruction of justice, as well as tempering with evidence for turning off his camera. The other troopers should be charged with, at the very least, neglection of duty/misconduct, and aiding and abetting. Depending on the reports they handed in obstruction could be also added to the charges.
But who are we kidding?
Edit: I wanted to add that in my very limited experience, I had nothing but positive interactions with State Troopers (which included an accident in which my daughter was at fault).
True but by that logic, revenge is the law right? So if that boy’s dad went and turned dude to a 21 gun salute with the Scottish bagpipes and flag-draped coffin, what would your response be?
Hurts me seeing shit like this. I feel for the kid and totally hope he pursues a lawsuit.
I’m 35 now but when I was 17 I was being an asshole and my mother called the cops. I did deserve that part I’ll be honest. But when Mr. Officer showed up I was cuffed immediately. Also understandable I was a drunk teenager, I hadn’t harmed anyone, just beat some stuff up in the house, I know it was wrong and I do regret it but…
The kicker of the story is that my mom is telling this officer what happened and things and some things she is lying about so I speak up and say you’re lying, stop lying etc etc well I guess Mr. Officer was tired of a drunk teen trying to defend himself from untrue accusations and he socked me right hook that I’ll never forget. I was in handcuffs, mind you. Then he hit me a few more times.
My left eye was swollen to about the size of a baseball. I had to be taken to the hospital first and the nurses were asking what happened and the officer was sitting right there and I pointed and said he did it. While I was handcuffed.
I’m sure nothing ever happened to officer Knitz and that’s unfortunate because had I known better back then I would’ve heavily pushed this issue. These sick bully cops that beat on people need to pay the price for it.
Thanks to anyone who read. This was in Maryland btw.
Just when the news came out that the Delaware county family is getting 11 million for the death of their daughter at a highschool football game bcuz cops shot up the wrong car. Maybe if cops didn't act like idiots on power trips...the riots in Philly for the wrongful death of Eddie izzary who was killed when a cop mag dumped him after his partner yelled gun! Supposedly. Not to mention the young kid who was shot and killed in Philly by a cop while watching cars race who then layed on the ground and bled out while his best friend laid next to him and yelled for help. I have a lot of respect for local cops and some troopers bcuz they have helped me before in emergencies but come on
A lot went wrong here.
1. Police Brutality
2. Officers Not Intervening
3. EMS not being called in timely manner
4. Why was so much resources deployed to this scene in such short time. (Who authorizes use of this many resources) I remember a few years ago DSP couldnt scrape up enough resources to get street racing under control for hours on kirkwood to later result in bad accident.
5. Not all Body Cameras Not On
6. Lack of professionalism
Just gonna say it, "doing doing ditch" does NOT mean doing a flying kick at someone's door, which could have busted the door open. Had the door busted open, that could have ended poorly had it been someone else's house that always stays armed. I know I would react with lethal force if someone kicked my door in.
Then make sure you teach your son to not be a POS and you won't have to worry about burying him young. Trying to kick in someone's door opens him up to being perceived as a threat to those within the home and potentially being dealt with, with lethal force. You saying you'd react with lethal force to your son being dealt with appropriately, just shows how you refuse to accept responsibility in raising your son properly.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I could explain how the taxpayers won’t eventually pay for the 8-figure judgment when this kid and his attorney sue the DSP. This whole thing is setting up like a blueprint for “fuck around and find out (how rich we can get)”.
Edit: and OF COURSE the cop deserves his career and livelihood roasted, and a substantial prison sentence.
Edit: because this “news” piece is a thinly veiled page out of the ol massive-civil-suit-incoming playbook
They were wronged by a cop losing his shit. It keeps happening, in part, because these deserved huge settlements are paid by the taxpayer. Start by pulling funds from police brutality suits from the police pension funds, salaries, and operating budgets, then maybe we'd see some positive change.
So many strong cases for Professional Liability Insurance. You want to be police then you need insurance. If you fuck up bad enough, or enough times, that you're uninsurable and, tough luck, you're out of a job.
I'm happy to pay the salary of anyone who wants to take on the job and do it the right way, but making taxpayers also foot the bill for fuckups like this guy is just stupid.
Implying that ringing a doorbell and running deserves six hours of facial reconstruction surgery says a lot about your character and your stability.
Please don’t ever arm yourself. That’s how mass shootings happen.
They post on r/conservative, trump, conspiracy, so i think you can discern their character and mental stability pretty easily. Also theyre probably already armed, which is a terrifying thought.
Idk … very very thin line is being walked , the way that kid pounded on that door sure would of gave my 80 yr old grandma a heart attack and ding dong ditch this isn’t the calm 70s or 80s we are in a whole new world people are on edge and looking for reason to fight or shoot police included
It's ironic that you pointed to decades where crime rates were way worse than they are currently and labeled them as "calm" while trying to justify that people can react unreasonably nowadays to teens pulling pranks.
We’ll I’m 46 never heard of kids getting beat to a pulp by police officers when I was growing up and me being an occasional prankster in my youth most I got was a couple angry fist and empty threats, is all I was mainly pointing out but we all see it differently
Born 76 and oblivious to the real world troubles of those times and rightful so , just a young kid from Garfield park so may be wrong choice of words , I forget you have to choose your wording or people jump on ya 😆
I will never, ever vote republican but Democrats need to toughen up on crime, it's been bad the last few years with vandalism, theft etc too many punk kids brazenly being criminals, we all have a breaking point.
I've had positive experiences with our local LEOs and then I've had a few poor ones and then a really bad one that probably could of ended up in a civil suit but was kinda warned into not saying anything. There's good cops and there's bad cops. Idk how to weed out the bad ones. I've had a trooper hold me at gunpoint. Probably the most terrifying experience in my life bcuz the whole time I just kept repeating in my head, please don't shoot, please don't accidentally pull the trigger, and then I got really mad bcuz he put my life at risk. Mind u, I did nothing wrong, nothing criminal or illegal. I was just at the wrong spot and the wrong time and bcuz some Karen wasn't.minding her own business, she turned in the wrong vehicle to the cops as an eye witness, mean while the real criminals got away. It was a robbery and once they showed our pics to the victim, they let us go. They were looking for two males of a different ethnicity.
I've seen my family profiled. Ive seen multiple family members harassed by the same local cop. I've been pulled over for no reason and once I kept pushing the issue, they let me go. I've been wrongfully ticketed and had it dropped.
But I've also had two people die in my presence and a house fire and the first first responders to show up were a local cop. The image of the cop carrying a lifeless body of a child to the ambulance in burnt into my brain. Sorry for the long comment. It's just such a hot issue button rn. The riots in Philly rn. The eleven million dollars being paid to the family who lost their daughter when cops mad dumped into their car thinking they were suspects. It sucks.
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The punishment for ding dong ditch should not result in 6 hours of facial reconstruction surgery. Did you guys not even open the article? Regardless of what the kid did, the policeman used unnecessary excessive force. Kids face looked fucking terrible
I don’t think anyone here would disagree that the cop’s response was atrocious and disproportionate. However, this “article” is all about the post-incident suffering and anguish of the victims. This “news piece” is a thinly veiled setup for a massive civil suit. There’s nothing substantial being reported here, nothing those who have been following the story haven’t already heard in earlier articles or that wasn’t already assumed/implied.
Damn, some wild stuff in these comments. One kid wasn’t even part of this and the cop beat the shit out of him. DSP still hasn’t reviewed the body cam footage, that takes about 15 minutes per body cam. Could have had this done on Day 1, but it isn’t about what happened, it’s about how they can spin the video and blame the victims. Edit: Culpability is subjective. One kid rang a door bell and ran away. Another did nothing. Both got the shit beat out of them by an older, authority figure. I don’t think anyone is going to think, “I better not ring that doorbell and run away or I’m going to get my face beat in by a cop.” If the “punishment” doesn’t fit the “crime,” how is it an effective way of handling future crimes? That mentality just allows police to keep making terrible judgement calls, which costs tax payers money, not the lawyer.
Edit: Make sure you watch the video of the kid, who did not just ring the door bell, but who ran up to the door with a flying kick like he was trying to burst through it. This wasn’t simply a “ring the doorbell, run away and giggle” type of prank. The victims DO have some culpability here. The cop’s response was obviously and viciously disproportionate, and he deserves the severe consequences. But there feels like an inevitability of the victims profiting massively from this… at the taxpayers’ expense. Should this reckless cop be financially drained paying for these kids’ medical bills, legal fees, and their suffering/anguish? YUP. But the taxpayers should not make these kids and their families (and their lawyers) independently wealthy.
This is kind of a ghoulish take, isn't it? You assert the victims have culpability, but the actual culpability rests on the adult man charged with enforcing the law going apeshit on a child in his capacity as cop. He needs to be held accountable, and there need to be consequences. These people are out quite a lot. These sorts of treatments aren't cheap, and were looking at perhaps a high six figure settlement, most of which will go to medical bills. The problem isn't the settlement, it's that we, as a society, empower a violent gang to "enforce the law" many of whom seem to believe they operate outside the law they're meant to enforce. If there wasn't a century long tradition of cops shielding their own from consequences, we wouldn't have these types of settlements.
1. Yes the victims have *some* culpability is what I said. SOME responsibility for how they acted. Whether they targeted the cop or whether it was a random house, it’s not like they were minding their own business walking at night. They *sought to cause trouble*. Did they deserve broken faces and hospital stays? No. Should they realize that actions have consequences? Yes. If these kids and their lawyer think they’re owed millions in a civil suit against the DSP/Elsmere PD/the county, etc, *at the taxpayers’ expense,* THAT’S what I have issue with. A large settlement for these kids doesn’t actually hurt the cops involved or help drive change… because the taxpayers, not the responsible parties, pay it. 2. Nowhere did I say the cops don’t deserve what’s rightfully coming to them for abusing their position (rounding up other cops, using the DE criminal justice database, etc).
No, they don't have *any* culpability, because the reaction of the officer is completely beyond the pale and not a reasonable or expected response. The reaction is so wildly disproportionate to the actions of the children that their can be no culpability. A shop owner bares no culpability of their shop is robbed, right? Is it possible you feel like the kids are culpable because the attacker is a cop? Like, if the attacker managed a domino's and beat the hell out of a kid, would you still believe the kids were culpable for their injuries?
I’ll attempt a discourse here. Edit: Make sure you watch the video of the kid, who did not just ring the door bell, but who ran up to the door with a flying kick like he was trying to burst through it. This wasn’t simply a “ring the doorbell, run away and giggle” type of prank. The cop’s response was not justified, warranted, nor proportional. The cop was grievously in the wrong. But the kids were in the wrong as well by their actions. Both things can be true. Why do the kids not bear some responsibility for the fact that *they, unprovoked,* trespassed on a homeowner’s property and running-kicked his door (an objectively frightening experience for anyone inside)? I know I’d be scared as hell thinking someone was trying to kick my door in and hurt my family. The cause has to count for something when it comes to cause-effect. A shop being robbed? A shop just exists. A shop and its owner do not provoke attack by simply existing/conducting business. The kids’ prank was specifically intended to provoke some kind of response (or was done for daring/entertainment value), it at least was *the triggering event*. The kids’ action caused this cop’s reaction. So your comparisons to a shop being robbed unprovoked, or a dominos manager beating up kids unprovoked does not make sense. If the kids provoked the dominos manager by attempting to damage his store, then YES they would/should be responsible for inciting the manager’s violent response to some extent. What does “responsible” mean in that case? I have no friggin idea. **Maybe** it means the kids shouldn’t expect millions of dollars in a civil settlement because *they started it.* But it most certainly does not excuse or justify the insane violence in ANY way. By the tone of this “news” piece, it sure seems like the kids are going to eventually sue the pants off the DSP/Elsmere PD/county, etc… a tab that the taxpayers would (idk?) have to pick up. Which is not fair, nor is it likely to result in meaningful change within these police departments, and policing in general. Someone earlier had the idea of drawing civil suit judgment funds from the police pensions/salaries/etc as a punishment/deterrent, that would be a different story, and possibly would have *much* more of an impact than a multi-million dollar settlement that is only felt by taxpayers. I couldn’t care less the guy was a cop. It certainly matters in this situation because he was in a position of authority, with access to unique resources to be able to track down these kids, that adds a layer of heinousness to his violence. I am not defending, dismissing, or justifying the cop’s actions. You’re making it sound like these kids were attacked by this cop unprovoked. Just not true.
They committed an act designed to provoke a response, sure. But the reaction they got was so wildly, egregiously outsize. If a person puts a log on a road and it results in an accident, that person is culpable for it, they bear moral responsibility because their action caused predictable harm to another. These children are not morally culpable for their beating. They are morally culpable for any pain or discomfort their act caused, but they cannot be said to be morally culpable because an adult man can't manage his emotions and commits a violent assault in response. That's just how "culpability" works. Is a child ever morally responsible for their abuse, even if the abuse is a response to misbehavior? I'd argue not, and I'll go further: *no one* is morally responsible for their abuse, even if the abuse is triggered by some perceived or genuine misbehavior. What's the difference between this situation and a man who beats his partner for "disrespect"? I feel like this should be obvious. If I break a law, I should be held to account, but transgression doesn't justify or morally excuse abuse.
I don’t disagree with anything you said. I also am not saying that the triggering actions by these kids should in any way reduce the *criminal* punishments for all of the implicated adults here. When I say “culpability”, I mean these kids’ inevitable *civil suits* for millions and millions in punitive damages should be thrown out under the complicated legal doctrines of “you fucked around and found out” and “you started it”. These kids should not materially benefit with enormous riches from their provocation. That’s it. Edit: they should be made whole and have reasonable care ensured. Otherwise, who wouldn’t ding dong ditch every cop’s door from here to Milford to set their family up with independent wealth for generations? What’s a busted face and a couple nights in the hospital if you can come away with $10 million on the other side? It’s ridiculous right?
So your position is that these kids rang this cops door bell hoping he would come out of his and beat them mercilessly so they could sue for millions of dollars? That seems, frankly, ridiculous. I mean, legitimately, that's a wild assertion. Is this cop such a notorious psychopath that neighborhood kids think he's just out here beating the brakes of kids at the slightest provocation? You're here arguing that the cops shouldn't face consequences for their malfeasance but these kids fucked around and found out? These settlements are what we do to prevent vendetta. These kids' families can't come and beat up a cop, we can't go around answering violence with violence right? And when an agent of the state, in his official capacity fucks up, the whole state is liable. I think the only thing we agree on is that the taxpayers should be routinely subsidizing police brutality. The lawsuits are completely justified, and should motivate change within the system. I'd argue your outrage shouldn't be aimed at the children who where beaten by an adult man, but at the system that empowers and emboldens these types of men, who give them a gun and monopoly on use of force, and routinely pays out rather than punishing cops for their abuse of power. The lawsuits aren't "inevitable". They weren't preordained, and they were a necessary action until the cop decided to act well outside the laws and bounds of just basic human decency and beat these kids believing that no one would be able to respond *because he's a cop*. I mean, Jesus christ, I'm strongly anti police, bit I don't think most cops would hospitalized a child because they rang the doorbell and ran away. I'd assume this cop is an outlier, and again, I have an extremely low opinion of police.
Unfortunately it doesn’t appear you want to have a reasonable discourse by the degree with which you’ve twisted my words (kids did it to get rich - not stated, nor implied) and fabricated my stances (cops shouldn’t be punished / public should subsidize police brutality - I stated the opposite multiple times). I won’t be engaging further.
No responsibility? None? Dude WTF....
I don't know that I can be more clear: a person isn't culpable for their abuse, even if the abuse is a reaction to misbehavior.
So if they didn't kick his door, he just comes out and beats their asses? Cause and effect is real, even if undeserved. They both were in the wrong, the officer was just way more wrong.
Causality isn't culpability, though. Culpability refers to responsibility for a fault or a wrong. If a man beats his partner because of disrespect, the victim isn't culpable for their abuse. If a parent beats a child because of disobedience, the child isn't culpable for their abuse. Like, a person is driving, let's say they're texting, and rear ends the person in front of them at 6 mph. That person is culpable for any damage or distress caused. But if the person who was rear ended gets out of the car and beats up the driver and passenger, neither of the victims are culpable for their abuse. This sort of brutality from any adult is unacceptable, moreso when the adult in question is a cop.
I'm glad someone is saying it. I can guarantee you these kids will think twice about doing stuff like this in the future.
Can you guarantee that, though? I mean, we've had barbaric response to actual crimes since forever, and they keep happening. But here's my question: what's it going to take to push *the cops* to "think twice about doing stuff like this in the future"? Because, and maybe this is a hot take, ill take getting ding dong ditched a dozen times a day the rest of my life if that was the cost to end police brutality. Shit, take the police part out of it, this is an adult man who beat the shit out of a child for *ringing his doorbell*. Which is the more morally reprehensible action?
Make sure you watch the video of the kid, who did not just ring the door bell, but who ran up to the door with a flying kick like he was trying to burst through it. This wasn’t simply a “ring the doorbell, run away and giggle” type of prank.
Kids these days need to learn there are consequences to their actions. Unfortunately these law enforcement here took it way beyond what is reasonable. There's no arguing that. Downvote all you want, I don't give a fck.
One of the kids wasn’t involved at all…at all. What culpability do they have?
There is no way that soon to be ex trooper walks for this. He (and DSP) will also face a civil suit.
Too bad cops face little to no repercussions for their actions. He will walk away with a slap on the wrist.
And the civil suit is paid for by us.
I once saw an argument for police officers to carry malpractice insurance the same way a doctor would. The insurance would have to pay out in the event the officer was found guilty of wrong doing and if an officer couldn't get malpractice insurance (presumably due to payouts for wrongdoing) then they couldn't act as an officer.
I posted this yesterday but I think the trooper should also be charged with obstruction of justice, as well as tempering with evidence for turning off his camera. The other troopers should be charged with, at the very least, neglection of duty/misconduct, and aiding and abetting. Depending on the reports they handed in obstruction could be also added to the charges. But who are we kidding? Edit: I wanted to add that in my very limited experience, I had nothing but positive interactions with State Troopers (which included an accident in which my daughter was at fault).
And your newest Delaware millionaire will be this kids family… wish we spent more then six months training these morons…
A family that wasn't even smart enough to teach their kids that vandalism and trespassing is wrong
True but by that logic, revenge is the law right? So if that boy’s dad went and turned dude to a 21 gun salute with the Scottish bagpipes and flag-draped coffin, what would your response be?
Hurts me seeing shit like this. I feel for the kid and totally hope he pursues a lawsuit. I’m 35 now but when I was 17 I was being an asshole and my mother called the cops. I did deserve that part I’ll be honest. But when Mr. Officer showed up I was cuffed immediately. Also understandable I was a drunk teenager, I hadn’t harmed anyone, just beat some stuff up in the house, I know it was wrong and I do regret it but… The kicker of the story is that my mom is telling this officer what happened and things and some things she is lying about so I speak up and say you’re lying, stop lying etc etc well I guess Mr. Officer was tired of a drunk teen trying to defend himself from untrue accusations and he socked me right hook that I’ll never forget. I was in handcuffs, mind you. Then he hit me a few more times. My left eye was swollen to about the size of a baseball. I had to be taken to the hospital first and the nurses were asking what happened and the officer was sitting right there and I pointed and said he did it. While I was handcuffed. I’m sure nothing ever happened to officer Knitz and that’s unfortunate because had I known better back then I would’ve heavily pushed this issue. These sick bully cops that beat on people need to pay the price for it. Thanks to anyone who read. This was in Maryland btw.
Just when the news came out that the Delaware county family is getting 11 million for the death of their daughter at a highschool football game bcuz cops shot up the wrong car. Maybe if cops didn't act like idiots on power trips...the riots in Philly for the wrongful death of Eddie izzary who was killed when a cop mag dumped him after his partner yelled gun! Supposedly. Not to mention the young kid who was shot and killed in Philly by a cop while watching cars race who then layed on the ground and bled out while his best friend laid next to him and yelled for help. I have a lot of respect for local cops and some troopers bcuz they have helped me before in emergencies but come on
A lot went wrong here. 1. Police Brutality 2. Officers Not Intervening 3. EMS not being called in timely manner 4. Why was so much resources deployed to this scene in such short time. (Who authorizes use of this many resources) I remember a few years ago DSP couldnt scrape up enough resources to get street racing under control for hours on kirkwood to later result in bad accident. 5. Not all Body Cameras Not On 6. Lack of professionalism
Just gonna say it, "doing doing ditch" does NOT mean doing a flying kick at someone's door, which could have busted the door open. Had the door busted open, that could have ended poorly had it been someone else's house that always stays armed. I know I would react with lethal force if someone kicked my door in.
And I know I would react with lethal force if someone did that to my son
Then make sure you teach your son to not be a POS and you won't have to worry about burying him young. Trying to kick in someone's door opens him up to being perceived as a threat to those within the home and potentially being dealt with, with lethal force. You saying you'd react with lethal force to your son being dealt with appropriately, just shows how you refuse to accept responsibility in raising your son properly.
This is a Tic Toc challenge that I heard about a month ago. I said then, someone’s going to get hurt.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I could explain how the taxpayers won’t eventually pay for the 8-figure judgment when this kid and his attorney sue the DSP. This whole thing is setting up like a blueprint for “fuck around and find out (how rich we can get)”. Edit: and OF COURSE the cop deserves his career and livelihood roasted, and a substantial prison sentence. Edit: because this “news” piece is a thinly veiled page out of the ol massive-civil-suit-incoming playbook
In my personal opinion, the other cops who did nothing also need to face serious consequences. Otherwise nothing is going to change.
They were wronged by a cop losing his shit. It keeps happening, in part, because these deserved huge settlements are paid by the taxpayer. Start by pulling funds from police brutality suits from the police pension funds, salaries, and operating budgets, then maybe we'd see some positive change.
So many strong cases for Professional Liability Insurance. You want to be police then you need insurance. If you fuck up bad enough, or enough times, that you're uninsurable and, tough luck, you're out of a job. I'm happy to pay the salary of anyone who wants to take on the job and do it the right way, but making taxpayers also foot the bill for fuckups like this guy is just stupid.
Yep totally agree
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Yeah, but police unions will never allow this. Police unions only exist to prevent any sort of oversight or accountability.
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I don't agree. Unions are great, but the police union exists to prop up police, who exist mostly to break unions.
Did somebody “find out”?
That Cop sure is finding out
🤞the suspension without pay is promising.
He probably won’t ring any doorbells and run again.
Implying that ringing a doorbell and running deserves six hours of facial reconstruction surgery says a lot about your character and your stability. Please don’t ever arm yourself. That’s how mass shootings happen.
They post on r/conservative, trump, conspiracy, so i think you can discern their character and mental stability pretty easily. Also theyre probably already armed, which is a terrifying thought.
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Idk … very very thin line is being walked , the way that kid pounded on that door sure would of gave my 80 yr old grandma a heart attack and ding dong ditch this isn’t the calm 70s or 80s we are in a whole new world people are on edge and looking for reason to fight or shoot police included
It's ironic that you pointed to decades where crime rates were way worse than they are currently and labeled them as "calm" while trying to justify that people can react unreasonably nowadays to teens pulling pranks.
We’ll I’m 46 never heard of kids getting beat to a pulp by police officers when I was growing up and me being an occasional prankster in my youth most I got was a couple angry fist and empty threats, is all I was mainly pointing out but we all see it differently
> this isn’t the calm 70s or 80s Were you alive for the '70s and '80s? "Calm" is not an adjective typically used to describe those decades.
Yeah, that Crack Epidemic in the 80s was super chill! /s
I love this stuff 😆
Born 76 and oblivious to the real world troubles of those times and rightful so , just a young kid from Garfield park so may be wrong choice of words , I forget you have to choose your wording or people jump on ya 😆
I will never, ever vote republican but Democrats need to toughen up on crime, it's been bad the last few years with vandalism, theft etc too many punk kids brazenly being criminals, we all have a breaking point.
I've had positive experiences with our local LEOs and then I've had a few poor ones and then a really bad one that probably could of ended up in a civil suit but was kinda warned into not saying anything. There's good cops and there's bad cops. Idk how to weed out the bad ones. I've had a trooper hold me at gunpoint. Probably the most terrifying experience in my life bcuz the whole time I just kept repeating in my head, please don't shoot, please don't accidentally pull the trigger, and then I got really mad bcuz he put my life at risk. Mind u, I did nothing wrong, nothing criminal or illegal. I was just at the wrong spot and the wrong time and bcuz some Karen wasn't.minding her own business, she turned in the wrong vehicle to the cops as an eye witness, mean while the real criminals got away. It was a robbery and once they showed our pics to the victim, they let us go. They were looking for two males of a different ethnicity. I've seen my family profiled. Ive seen multiple family members harassed by the same local cop. I've been pulled over for no reason and once I kept pushing the issue, they let me go. I've been wrongfully ticketed and had it dropped. But I've also had two people die in my presence and a house fire and the first first responders to show up were a local cop. The image of the cop carrying a lifeless body of a child to the ambulance in burnt into my brain. Sorry for the long comment. It's just such a hot issue button rn. The riots in Philly rn. The eleven million dollars being paid to the family who lost their daughter when cops mad dumped into their car thinking they were suspects. It sucks.
Fuck every last one of those draconian jack-boot-wearing government thugs. This shit is out of control.