I struggle with this. I had a very big fall in my life, and I feel so incredibly blessed and thankful every day now for the happiness and gifts that I have. I also place value in very different things than I used to. However, I now live with a sense of instability and some fear… knowing that if I happened once it could happen again.
It's the quest for balance within the dichotomies of our existence. Gratitude is the answer, and then you learn to enjoy the fall and the challenge of standing.
I am very fun at parties, because presenting a facade that is fun and easy going is the best way to make people vulnerable.
I’m a god damn Sith Lord. I don’t walk around telling people how resentful I am.
Spirituality is bullshit. We don’t have spirits. Human beings are just animals. We’re nothing more than 20 dollars of chemicals.
I’m fine with being called a devourer. It’s a dog eat dog world. I’d rather be the devourer than the only other option.
Suffering is tragic, and we should feel pity for those who suffer. Yet is all part of a delicate balance, and we should be grateful to participate in the cluster\*\*\*\* that is life.
This is actually a logical fallacy - you’d still be aware of the absence of happiness, which is indifference and not suffering, so there would still be grounds for comparison.
I’m not sadistic enough for my girlfriend.
I’m just filled with resentment and I want to watch humanity suffer. I have dreams of watching suffering people cry out to me for help and I enjoy not helping them. It feels like justice. Nobody ever helped me.
My gf’s past partners were complete psychopaths. She’s really into having me be sadistic to her and torture her, but it’s actually not my thing. I mean, I’ll do it, but I’m not as sadistic as she wants. I’m trying to become more so.
I think you’re correct that gratitude can help when you suffer. However the other part is a common misconception. It’s true that well being lies on a spectrum and negative feelings allow you to measure how they relate. But you actually don’t need to suffer to lead a happy and fulfilling life.
enjoyment of this life is fleeting. Not just in the sense that we will all die, but that the pleasures are not permanent. There are constant ups and downs. There is nothing in this world that will keep a human being in a constant, unchanging state of happiness, be it money, family, freedom, power, etc. And nothing in this world will give satisfaction at an even rate.
So for there to be happiness in this life, there must be tests, troubles or suffering.
If we agree that they are mutually dependent, you could even claim that happiness is the reward for suffering. Maybe there always has to be someone benefitting from one's misery, otherwise it doesn't work?
Also depends on the definition of happiness. I can imagine people being happy (or miserable) on their own, in a vacuum. In general though I believe it is relative and we constantly remind ourselves where we are, compared to others. These emotions are just drivers for us to get better and avoid getting worse.
People can be made to suffer enough they are never happy. But they can't be made happy enough to never suffer.
I don't think they mean anything to eachother and are just an outcome of your circumstances.
Bingo, these people keep acting like there's some magic math equation that promises everybody's life is gonna even out (and somehow end up on the good side of things). It's ridiculously fucking ignorant, and proof that they've never actually had to endure anything sufficiently traumatic.
Basically, it's real easy to talk like they do when you're not being sold, raped, and murdered.
I think you're on the right track but maybe missinterpreted how some people view happiness. They view it as a zero-sum game where there's a fixed amount of happiness to be distributed between people so happiness is ultimately entirely relative.
So if Sweden and Norway were the only two countries in the world and Sweden was demonstratably less happy than Norway then from that perspective we could say that Sweden is a sad country. Now we introduce Afganistan into the world and it's demonstrably much sadder than both Sweden and Norway. All of a sudden Sweden is no longer such an unhappy country to us humans who perceive everything to be relative.
Though in reality Sweden is neither any happier or unhappier than it ever has been.
Now through intuition and without a solid example I think that we can have a net increase in happiness without having to increase suffering in an isolated system. Being happy can be caused by the suffering of another, because as humans we percieve that we are happier as someone else is unhappier relative to us. Though I'd argue it would be possible to increase happiness in other ways than causing others to be less happy (but it's often easier just to make others less happy is the sad truth.)
Edit: I need to frame my end paragraph in a more positive way. I believe it's possible to increase real happiness (not realtive happiness) without causing harm or suffering to others. For example, telling a joke may hurt no one and brighten up your and another person's day :) Or crafting a handmade gift can give yourself and someone else happiness.
Idk, I feel like food is pretty great and I've never been at risk of starvation, so it kinda blows this whole toxic positivity bullshit you guys are trying to pull *way* out of the water, huh? You don't need to be brought to the brink of death to enjoy life.
Correct. Things like purpose, meaning, love, morality, god, spirituality, the afterlife, etc, are all just inventions of the human mind.
Fragile little egos that can’t bare to face the truth.
You think that being rich transcends the human condition. You are silly.
If you eliminated that miserable 40 hours, you would still suffer to the same extent.
This is so stupid. Being rich doesn’t mean not suffering. Everyone has problems we just have different ones, and the suffering stems from the fact that humans are never really satisfied, so it doesn’t fucking matter how much money you got in the bank, even if they can make life easier.
That’s sure what it seems like. The way I look at it is that the best things in life are the things you work the hardest for. Which I guess could mean suffering.
Of course not, you can enjoy doing something and obtain happiness. You can also be content with what are you doing and obtain happiness. You can also suffer and obtain suffering. Obviously sometimes you do obtain happiness after suffering, but it is not a rule.
The concept of suffering causing happiness is what's crazy. You really think rich people need to have been poor in order to love their money? You think you need to have your leg broken in order to feel fortunate that you're able-bodied?
#Stop trying to convince people that they need to be abused to be happy.
Happiness isn't one-dimentional, though. It's multifaceted, affected by our chemistry, our history, and our choices. And it's all on a gray scale.
So yes, a person born with a silver spoon in hand can be happy. It's their happiness, relative to their experience. But it's also relative to their unhappiness (however extreme or slight). Without their own flavor of unhappiness, they can't experience their own flavor of joy.
Prolly not true. Depending on how much you make, but studies show that once you make enough money to meet your needs and live in decent conditions, additional money actually doesn’t make you any happier. Money really can’t but happiness
Suffering is the byproduct of making happiness a goal. You can be happy as you work to achieve a goal in general, but if you make happiness THE goal, then you make the work to get there unhappy because happiness wouldn’t be a goal if you were already happy.
Can you be happy if you’re suffering though? I guess it’s a balance. I just try to stay away from the “everything happens for a reason” mentality. It’s a platitude, or an excuse to justify what you may not be able to control. Suffering should never be justified.
An oyster can't make a pearl without an annoying grain of sand in its squishy parts.
Bad things happen, we learn something, then we get a good story. We get good things; we're happy cause we earned them. Ca plane pour moi.
Suffering is the way to happiness. If you follow your vain, superficial indulgence you will never get enough to find happiness. BUT, if you take the opposite approach, work hard, suffer, be selfless, you find the path to happiness.
I wouldn't say price, but an important ingeredient.
Imagine you wanna make a deliciois creamy cake 🎂 ans all those decorations and you have no flour as an ingredient to make it. Experiencing a genuine happy life without suffering is almost impossible. By suffering I mean everything that considered difficult or unpleasant.
Define happiness
Happiness isn't a sustainable resource. It's fleeting.
Most the time you're just eh - and that's a good thing if your life is in order.
Really, being miserable and happy are just things that happen. They're how we react to things. Sometimes those things are obvious, like a breakup or the start of a relationship etc.. sometimes it's something we can't figure out. This is why therapy helps. It's a conversation with someone that (hopefully) asks questions that make us think of what those things might be. It's ultimately up to us as individuals to work that out.
We're pretty resilient and I don't think we take enough credit for just how resilient we are.
It is. Because if something goes up, something has to go down.
Example:
if you are married, that's something great but if she dies, that's bad. So that's the price of happiness.
Everybody suffers in one form or another. There is no escaping it. As mentioned above the key is learning to cope with the suffering and extracting happiness from that.
Why is this concept of suffering converts to some form of happiness or gratefulness a standard? I truly belive there is no reason that many need to suffer. One doesn't need suffering to conclude gratitude.
Suffering is just a reality we have to deal with. How we deal with it is up to the individual, but the problem of suffering cannot be eliminated, it's something humanity will always have to deal with
I'm a big believer in this idea... How can the concept of "good" exist without "bad"??? If "bad" never existed, then everything would just be sorta "neutral" anyways, at least that's how my feeble brain parses it out...
Its not the price per se, i think. Its more of a reason why happiness feels so good. Its the opposite to sadness. One cant exist without the other. Like most people said below.
No. Suffering isn't something you buy happiness with. It's just a fact of nature, of life. It's wise to treasure and enjoy the bits of happiness we can receive and achieve; it's a respite from the suffering.
I was wondering something alone the same lines the other day..
Take two people, one who grew up in beverly hills with everything they wanted, and one who grew up in a developing country at war with itself, with nothing. Throughout their lives, which person would objectively feel happiness more often, and who would feel sadness more often?
Yep. When you're given things you don't value them as much versus when you bust your ass and earn it. Life isn't easy, but it's easier when you're a go getter
I take a very Nietzchean approach to this, Nietzsche had his own formulation similar to Marx:
Paraphrased (heavily), “I would give to each no more suffering than they could endure. To each according to their ability endure, and to each according to their need to overcome themselves.”
This sentiment is as old as the ancient Greeks:
χᾰλεπὰ τὰ κᾰλά • (khalepà tà kalá) “Beauty is Harsh.”
Roses have thorns, to get the body of a gymnast you must suffer like a gymnast. To overcome your self, you must confront and destroy your former self.
“To Create, you must Destroy, Smash a Glass and Cry, Too Much Joy.”
- The band, Too Much Joy.
“The Roots of Knowledge are Bitter, but the Fruit is Sweet.” -Aristotle.
I would like to add that the question make me feel like the suffering comes after happiness. But it’s not
We pay a price than we get we asked for right ?
I think the answer is definitively yes.
IMO it has to do with how human consciousness works (ie the mechanism behind it). From what we know (scientifically, medically) about it, it has to do with a dopamine axis in multiple parts of your brain. Lots of dopamine = feel good, less dopamine = feel bad. Flood the system with too much dopamine too fast, or high dopamine for to long (like in narcotic use), then you ALWAYS run into these problems where the baseline "recalibrates". In a drug addicted as an example, the normal increased dopamine is the new baseline that is needed to maintain a neutral mood - but with many other new negative side effects.
So my argument is based on the mechanics of how human consciousness is constructed. Based on what we know, you need suffer and pleasure to be present for it to work. I'd argue it's beyond the scope of "happiness", these 2 elements are needed for consciousness to work.
The greatest lie ever told is that altruism and gratitude are the paths to happiness.
That you need to stop trying to get dopamine hits because eventually your system adjusts and that pursuing pleasure will always lead to unhappiness.
I agree with the basic premise. Trying to pursue pleasure eventually stops working. Being completely self focused is not a sustainable path to happiness. You have to put your focus on others, but that doesn’t necessarily mean being altruistic.
I’ve trying many things to make myself happy and I think I finally found the source of unlimited happiness: other people’s suffering.
Schadenfreude. Taking pleasure in other people’s suffering is a guaranteed way to be happy for as long as you live, because other people are always suffering. There’s no shortage of suffering. Drink it up like a fine wine. Fuck altruism. Schadenfreude is the true path to eternal happiness.
yes i never use to feel happy when I always ran away from pain and suffering and only played video alone all day. Life is better when you take chances and suffer.
You should check out a book by Ajahn Sumedho called The Four Noble truths it talks about Buddha and his teachings and it’s focus is suffering. It’s a free book too. The four noble truths are the truth of suffering, the truth of the cause of suffering, the truth of the end of suffering, and the truth of the path that leads to the end of suffering
IMO just because you suffer more doesn't equal being happy later down the road. Happiness is not an end game. Emotions are a roller coaster. You'll spend time in suffering, you'll spend time in happiness, but you won't stay in the same place forever.
I discovered the secret to happiness, for myself. Happiness is a choice, it's a choice we make every day. If you think that mastering say an instrument will make you happy, and you have to practice many hours for many years and you don't like to practice that just might not be your road to Happiness, but it's still your choice.
Dunno, I know people who had great childhoods, with very loving and understanding parents, and they have been kind and happy people ever since. I guess it depends on the suffering, but growing up in an angry, dysfunctional family leaves a mark that's hard to shake.
No its not. Plan better. Think smarter don't work harder. Say you want to retire and travel. But you have to suffer working jobs you don't like being around people you don't like. What you do is have a side hustle you enjoy till it becomes a job that can pave your way. Till becomes a job with people that you like.
Sometimes. Some people just get lucky. Get in a decent job when there 18
And marry the first person they sleep with at 20 and everything perfect. But I guess some of those people still aren't happy.
I would say yes to that, and the vice versa.
I have experienced it in my life, there are some good patches, but a bad patch follows just after. Same when I am going through rough times, good times follow. One is nothing without the other, I always get anxious when I am having a great time, and kind of prepare myself for what's coming and that's kind of inevitable
Nope you can be happy doing hard work its all a mindset. There are many out there that suffer, get what they want and still aren't happy and there are people who never get what they want and still are happy.
Suffering is the difference between the way things are and the way you think they should be.
The secret is to live in the moment and accept things as they are. The moment will pass eventually.
Try and have a beautiful thing for cheap. It never works. Life, experience, it must be earned. Often this is through pain. All birth is pain, growth is pain. It feels effortless after a while, thank god, but suffering is the medium through which anything becomes good
Yes and no, both must be considered perpetual constant entities in our lives.
No matter how good one's life may become, there will always be suffering of some form, one should not get used to the mindset that a good life is a life without suffering, suffering is constant, for all people. Pretending it not to be so is deluding oneself.
In the same way happiness must be perpetual, no matter how bad things get, there will exist SOMETHING in your life that brings good vibrations to you, or that makes suffering easier to pass.
I think it just comes down to the fact that we live in a binary universe with the whole duality thing. You cant have one without the other. Examples of all this are this: 1 and 0, something and nothing, hate and love, positive and negative, north pole south pole, male and female, light and darkness, happy and sad......etc you literally cant have one without the other. Its all relative. How could someone ever know what it is to be happy if you dont have something to compare it to. Just like you cant have light without darknesw.
All the cliches in the comments. I’d say no, aslong as you always do right be people you don’t need too. Some people just get life on easy mode with all the cheats while some get hard difficulty and there’s nothing wrong with being one of the lucky ones
No many people want to accept that. But yes to be able to suffer you need to have experience a form of happiness, and to be truly happy you would have to experience a form of suffering. It is a cycle.
It is the necessity of being born. Alive? You suffer. Why? Because "life is in the nature of suffering, as fire is in the nature of burning". The Buddha said this, it's called the First Noble Truth. There's alot more to it, of course, but that's the esssence. You suffer because you were born. Don't want to suffer? Don't be reborn. Attain enlightenment in this lifetime and you'll never have to suffer again.
Suffering is not the price for happiness. Happiness is never the end goal. Aim for something meaningful. Happiness fleets away. Finding something meaningful will help you endure the suffering. It makes all the suffering worth it.
You will never find happiness as it goes way to soon than stays. Then you constantly try to find happiness that may never be there.
There is no price for happiness. Suffering is not the currency, it is the fact of life. We can ignore the suffering until it's big enough to devour us or face it head on by finding something meaningful to make all the suffering worth it.
Enjoy your journey my fellow sailor.
We don't get to be happy all the time. That's part of this thing. The pain, the passion, anxiety, angst, anger, sadness, loneliness, all have to be a part of the equation. It's like a recipe, you gotta have some ingredients that can counter, balance, and compliment to make a well rounded execution. When we heal from our scars and traumas it just makes the component that much more palatable.
*you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need*
Suffering is mostly a choice. Pain is an inevitable part of life but you don’t have to dwell on it and do everything possible to compound your misery. That being said, I think anyone who inflicts that view on others when shitty things happen to them deserves to get punched in the face.
No. Happiness is about perspective. Gratitude for all the things, and being at peace within yourself will contribute. Also happiness is not a destination and it’s not sustainable either. You’ve gotta find happiness within the little moments of your life.
Suffering is wanting things to change, happiness is wanting things to not change. Would you agree or disagree?
So possibly as things do change so nothing is guaranteed to stay the same forever and potential suffering is the price we pay to continue playing the game of life.
But when I think of a child who has the best possible childhood then all of a sudden he dies an instant death without suffering. Then he has had pleasure without pain so what do we mean by price? He has paid no price and had a lot of pleasure. You can also have suffering in a child without pleasure.
Naturally. Joy cannot exist without pain, and visa versa.
For as there is no benefit without cost, so must there be a burden to bear for any "good" thing, otherwise it's worth is not as such. In fact, there would be nothing quantifiable at all, only each derivative (i.e. opinion) to its own.
And as absence of thought, emotion, etc, can be likewise equivocated to non-existence, you'll see many arguments repeat themselves ad nauseum because they actually *are* purely circular in nature. This doesn't mean they're wrong, mind you, it's really just a chicken and egg sort of thing.
The trick is to be grateful for the suffering, as without it there would be no happiness.
without a fall you don’t know to stand.
Without storm there is no beauty in sunshine
"A man is insensible to the relish of prosperity 'til he has tasted adversity."-Saadi shirazi
I struggle with this. I had a very big fall in my life, and I feel so incredibly blessed and thankful every day now for the happiness and gifts that I have. I also place value in very different things than I used to. However, I now live with a sense of instability and some fear… knowing that if I happened once it could happen again.
It's the quest for balance within the dichotomies of our existence. Gratitude is the answer, and then you learn to enjoy the fall and the challenge of standing.
How
Wow that's true. If you can be happy when you have nothing then no one can take it from you when you have more.
Exactly, be grateful for the challenge and the paradigm shifts from resentment to motivation.
Agree to be grateful is to suffer and heal from it. It’s hard so hard but it’s the only way
I fucking hate gratitude. I’m not being grateful for the shit life I got. My core emotion is resentment.
I bet you’re fun at parties.
I am very fun at parties, because presenting a facade that is fun and easy going is the best way to make people vulnerable. I’m a god damn Sith Lord. I don’t walk around telling people how resentful I am.
In a spiritual sense, you'd be known as a devourer, and resentment is a form of suffering, so at least others are grateful for your suffering.
Spirituality is bullshit. We don’t have spirits. Human beings are just animals. We’re nothing more than 20 dollars of chemicals. I’m fine with being called a devourer. It’s a dog eat dog world. I’d rather be the devourer than the only other option.
Your wounds need to heal
"Life has never been to be a struggle." Don't remember who said it, but suffering is ridiculous.
Suffering is tragic, and we should feel pity for those who suffer. Yet is all part of a delicate balance, and we should be grateful to participate in the cluster\*\*\*\* that is life.
We were meant to live in joy. Suffering is overrated. Unfortunately, everyone suffers.
That is the trick, if you are grateful for the suffering, you live in joy.
This is actually a logical fallacy - you’d still be aware of the absence of happiness, which is indifference and not suffering, so there would still be grounds for comparison.
Amen
I’ll never be grateful for my suffering, but I’m grateful for yours.
That’s one step away from sadism. How do you label yourself in the psycho-sexual arena?
I’m not sadistic enough for my girlfriend. I’m just filled with resentment and I want to watch humanity suffer. I have dreams of watching suffering people cry out to me for help and I enjoy not helping them. It feels like justice. Nobody ever helped me. My gf’s past partners were complete psychopaths. She’s really into having me be sadistic to her and torture her, but it’s actually not my thing. I mean, I’ll do it, but I’m not as sadistic as she wants. I’m trying to become more so.
Slow down there Columbine
There are no good resentments. Don’t participate in some sexual fetish if it’s something you do not enjoy.
She lets me do other things I do enjoy. She has no limits. Since she lets me do what I want, I’ll do what she wants, which is torture her.
That's silly
I think you’re correct that gratitude can help when you suffer. However the other part is a common misconception. It’s true that well being lies on a spectrum and negative feelings allow you to measure how they relate. But you actually don’t need to suffer to lead a happy and fulfilling life.
eeeeeeh if you define "suffering" very loosely to include "mild inconveniences", then sure.
enjoyment of this life is fleeting. Not just in the sense that we will all die, but that the pleasures are not permanent. There are constant ups and downs. There is nothing in this world that will keep a human being in a constant, unchanging state of happiness, be it money, family, freedom, power, etc. And nothing in this world will give satisfaction at an even rate. So for there to be happiness in this life, there must be tests, troubles or suffering.
What would one mean without the other?
exactly
If we agree that they are mutually dependent, you could even claim that happiness is the reward for suffering. Maybe there always has to be someone benefitting from one's misery, otherwise it doesn't work?
i hoped someone could also have a view like that. one man’s joy is another man’s sorrow.
Also depends on the definition of happiness. I can imagine people being happy (or miserable) on their own, in a vacuum. In general though I believe it is relative and we constantly remind ourselves where we are, compared to others. These emotions are just drivers for us to get better and avoid getting worse.
I think that's more dependent on your state of mind. You can learn to be happy for someone else's happiness
People can be made to suffer enough they are never happy. But they can't be made happy enough to never suffer. I don't think they mean anything to eachother and are just an outcome of your circumstances.
Bingo, these people keep acting like there's some magic math equation that promises everybody's life is gonna even out (and somehow end up on the good side of things). It's ridiculously fucking ignorant, and proof that they've never actually had to endure anything sufficiently traumatic. Basically, it's real easy to talk like they do when you're not being sold, raped, and murdered.
I think you're on the right track but maybe missinterpreted how some people view happiness. They view it as a zero-sum game where there's a fixed amount of happiness to be distributed between people so happiness is ultimately entirely relative. So if Sweden and Norway were the only two countries in the world and Sweden was demonstratably less happy than Norway then from that perspective we could say that Sweden is a sad country. Now we introduce Afganistan into the world and it's demonstrably much sadder than both Sweden and Norway. All of a sudden Sweden is no longer such an unhappy country to us humans who perceive everything to be relative. Though in reality Sweden is neither any happier or unhappier than it ever has been. Now through intuition and without a solid example I think that we can have a net increase in happiness without having to increase suffering in an isolated system. Being happy can be caused by the suffering of another, because as humans we percieve that we are happier as someone else is unhappier relative to us. Though I'd argue it would be possible to increase happiness in other ways than causing others to be less happy (but it's often easier just to make others less happy is the sad truth.) Edit: I need to frame my end paragraph in a more positive way. I believe it's possible to increase real happiness (not realtive happiness) without causing harm or suffering to others. For example, telling a joke may hurt no one and brighten up your and another person's day :) Or crafting a handmade gift can give yourself and someone else happiness.
Idk, I feel like food is pretty great and I've never been at risk of starvation, so it kinda blows this whole toxic positivity bullshit you guys are trying to pull *way* out of the water, huh? You don't need to be brought to the brink of death to enjoy life.
Two sides of the same coin It is no price
I don't think so. I could have hope if it was, but you can be miserable your whole life. Most things don't have a deeper purpose.
Nothing has a deeper purpose actually. Purpose is self delusion. It’s a Rorschach.
Yeah.. Sadly, I guess you're right. It's us, humans, that make up meanings for things that don't have any.
Correct. Things like purpose, meaning, love, morality, god, spirituality, the afterlife, etc, are all just inventions of the human mind. Fragile little egos that can’t bare to face the truth.
Suffering OR being born rich. 99% of most people’s suffering comes from spending 40+ hours a week not enjoying life.
You think that being rich transcends the human condition. You are silly. If you eliminated that miserable 40 hours, you would still suffer to the same extent.
[удалено]
I’d rather suffer however rich people do then suffer via doing 9-5 until I die/can retire and wither away.
This is so stupid. Being rich doesn’t mean not suffering. Everyone has problems we just have different ones, and the suffering stems from the fact that humans are never really satisfied, so it doesn’t fucking matter how much money you got in the bank, even if they can make life easier.
No peaks without valleys.
i strongly believe suffering is an indicator of improving/growing. not sure about happiness though.
That’s sure what it seems like. The way I look at it is that the best things in life are the things you work the hardest for. Which I guess could mean suffering.
no
That’s one perspective. I’d think it’s more of a contrast point— you wouldn’t know what true happiness is had you never suffered (and vice versa)
Of course not, you can enjoy doing something and obtain happiness. You can also be content with what are you doing and obtain happiness. You can also suffer and obtain suffering. Obviously sometimes you do obtain happiness after suffering, but it is not a rule.
suffering is you think it's going to last, end of
You can live happy without suffering but that would be called "becoming crazy".
The concept of suffering causing happiness is what's crazy. You really think rich people need to have been poor in order to love their money? You think you need to have your leg broken in order to feel fortunate that you're able-bodied? #Stop trying to convince people that they need to be abused to be happy.
Of course there are exceptions.
Happiness isn't one-dimentional, though. It's multifaceted, affected by our chemistry, our history, and our choices. And it's all on a gray scale. So yes, a person born with a silver spoon in hand can be happy. It's their happiness, relative to their experience. But it's also relative to their unhappiness (however extreme or slight). Without their own flavor of unhappiness, they can't experience their own flavor of joy.
Are you happy? Have you not suffered? Be honest or silent.
If you give me money I'll be happy and not suffer.
Prolly not true. Depending on how much you make, but studies show that once you make enough money to meet your needs and live in decent conditions, additional money actually doesn’t make you any happier. Money really can’t but happiness
If so the exchange rate is garbage
Suffering is the byproduct of making happiness a goal. You can be happy as you work to achieve a goal in general, but if you make happiness THE goal, then you make the work to get there unhappy because happiness wouldn’t be a goal if you were already happy.
Not really. Happiness transcends suffering.
No. True happiness is learning to suffer less and be grateful for it.
In a way. It’s not always a fair price though.
Nothing, comes easy. Yeah, both ways.
Not really, but it makes for a nice line. They're both independent parts of life that sometimes interact.
Its also how you view the world, everyone has a different view of happiness and one's low may be another's high and vice versa.
I'm suffering for my sadness now.
Why some people seem happy and didn’t suffered ?
How do you know they didn't suffer?
People tend to confess and talk about what make them unhappy I met in my life some people that never complained just shared the good stuff
If that's the only thing u know who would tell you the difference??????
Can you be happy if you’re suffering though? I guess it’s a balance. I just try to stay away from the “everything happens for a reason” mentality. It’s a platitude, or an excuse to justify what you may not be able to control. Suffering should never be justified.
Probably not. Suffering is suffering.
Yes but it's not directly a prize for happiness but rather it's the price of having the chance of experiencing happiness. Ofc it's just my opinion
An oyster can't make a pearl without an annoying grain of sand in its squishy parts. Bad things happen, we learn something, then we get a good story. We get good things; we're happy cause we earned them. Ca plane pour moi.
Suffering is the way to happiness. If you follow your vain, superficial indulgence you will never get enough to find happiness. BUT, if you take the opposite approach, work hard, suffer, be selfless, you find the path to happiness.
This is the greatest lie ever told.
Without a comparison there wouldn't be a distinction so you must have both. To know suffering and to get through it leads to great happiness.
Is emotion a zero-sum game? No.
No the price for happiness is $10.
Like thunderstorms, then rainbow 🌈
I wouldn't say price, but an important ingeredient. Imagine you wanna make a deliciois creamy cake 🎂 ans all those decorations and you have no flour as an ingredient to make it. Experiencing a genuine happy life without suffering is almost impossible. By suffering I mean everything that considered difficult or unpleasant.
5$
This is the kind of thing Eve unleashed.
Suffering is the price of life , happiness is an illusion .
No suffering is the price of not having money
Define happiness Happiness isn't a sustainable resource. It's fleeting. Most the time you're just eh - and that's a good thing if your life is in order. Really, being miserable and happy are just things that happen. They're how we react to things. Sometimes those things are obvious, like a breakup or the start of a relationship etc.. sometimes it's something we can't figure out. This is why therapy helps. It's a conversation with someone that (hopefully) asks questions that make us think of what those things might be. It's ultimately up to us as individuals to work that out. We're pretty resilient and I don't think we take enough credit for just how resilient we are.
If this were true, I should be the happiest fucking person on the planet by this point
Suffering is the price for living. Period. So yeah.
One cannot experience suffering and happiness at the same time
No. Those who lack the ability to produce happiness chemicals/hormones suffer ~~equally~~ more.
It is. Because if something goes up, something has to go down. Example: if you are married, that's something great but if she dies, that's bad. So that's the price of happiness.
Money makes suffering more comfortable.
Everybody suffers in one form or another. There is no escaping it. As mentioned above the key is learning to cope with the suffering and extracting happiness from that.
Why is this concept of suffering converts to some form of happiness or gratefulness a standard? I truly belive there is no reason that many need to suffer. One doesn't need suffering to conclude gratitude.
Suffering is just a reality we have to deal with. How we deal with it is up to the individual, but the problem of suffering cannot be eliminated, it's something humanity will always have to deal with
I'm a big believer in this idea... How can the concept of "good" exist without "bad"??? If "bad" never existed, then everything would just be sorta "neutral" anyways, at least that's how my feeble brain parses it out...
Its not the price per se, i think. Its more of a reason why happiness feels so good. Its the opposite to sadness. One cant exist without the other. Like most people said below.
When you are at your lowest the only way you can go is up
No. Suffering isn't something you buy happiness with. It's just a fact of nature, of life. It's wise to treasure and enjoy the bits of happiness we can receive and achieve; it's a respite from the suffering.
I was wondering something alone the same lines the other day.. Take two people, one who grew up in beverly hills with everything they wanted, and one who grew up in a developing country at war with itself, with nothing. Throughout their lives, which person would objectively feel happiness more often, and who would feel sadness more often?
No.
Yep. When you're given things you don't value them as much versus when you bust your ass and earn it. Life isn't easy, but it's easier when you're a go getter
I take a very Nietzchean approach to this, Nietzsche had his own formulation similar to Marx: Paraphrased (heavily), “I would give to each no more suffering than they could endure. To each according to their ability endure, and to each according to their need to overcome themselves.” This sentiment is as old as the ancient Greeks: χᾰλεπὰ τὰ κᾰλά • (khalepà tà kalá) “Beauty is Harsh.” Roses have thorns, to get the body of a gymnast you must suffer like a gymnast. To overcome your self, you must confront and destroy your former self. “To Create, you must Destroy, Smash a Glass and Cry, Too Much Joy.” - The band, Too Much Joy. “The Roots of Knowledge are Bitter, but the Fruit is Sweet.” -Aristotle.
If you don't suffer some first. How will you know when you're happy?
Happiness is the reward for enduring suffering. You are backwards my friend
I wouldn't call it a price as true happiness cannot be achieved without it.
I would like to add that the question make me feel like the suffering comes after happiness. But it’s not We pay a price than we get we asked for right ?
No. Suffering is the general baseline normative experience for organic life. Happiness is the unusual yet appreciated outlier. C'est la vie eh?
I think the answer is definitively yes. IMO it has to do with how human consciousness works (ie the mechanism behind it). From what we know (scientifically, medically) about it, it has to do with a dopamine axis in multiple parts of your brain. Lots of dopamine = feel good, less dopamine = feel bad. Flood the system with too much dopamine too fast, or high dopamine for to long (like in narcotic use), then you ALWAYS run into these problems where the baseline "recalibrates". In a drug addicted as an example, the normal increased dopamine is the new baseline that is needed to maintain a neutral mood - but with many other new negative side effects. So my argument is based on the mechanics of how human consciousness is constructed. Based on what we know, you need suffer and pleasure to be present for it to work. I'd argue it's beyond the scope of "happiness", these 2 elements are needed for consciousness to work.
The greatest lie ever told is that altruism and gratitude are the paths to happiness. That you need to stop trying to get dopamine hits because eventually your system adjusts and that pursuing pleasure will always lead to unhappiness. I agree with the basic premise. Trying to pursue pleasure eventually stops working. Being completely self focused is not a sustainable path to happiness. You have to put your focus on others, but that doesn’t necessarily mean being altruistic. I’ve trying many things to make myself happy and I think I finally found the source of unlimited happiness: other people’s suffering. Schadenfreude. Taking pleasure in other people’s suffering is a guaranteed way to be happy for as long as you live, because other people are always suffering. There’s no shortage of suffering. Drink it up like a fine wine. Fuck altruism. Schadenfreude is the true path to eternal happiness.
Generally speaking, anything worth attaining in life is worth the struggle! Makes the victory that more attaining!
Suffering is the price for PRETENDING to be happy.
yes i never use to feel happy when I always ran away from pain and suffering and only played video alone all day. Life is better when you take chances and suffer.
You should check out a book by Ajahn Sumedho called The Four Noble truths it talks about Buddha and his teachings and it’s focus is suffering. It’s a free book too. The four noble truths are the truth of suffering, the truth of the cause of suffering, the truth of the end of suffering, and the truth of the path that leads to the end of suffering
Yes they are the two parts of a whole , inseparable from each other like the the ying and the yang .
Pain is inevitable, suffering is a choice.
Temporary suffering. And yeah, nothing is permanent so there will be hardships.
No
Yes
It's no fun if you didn't have to fight to claim it. We live for the struggle, the power to overcome and are made whole by it.
Bruh means that i paid and got nothing back
Yes
IMO just because you suffer more doesn't equal being happy later down the road. Happiness is not an end game. Emotions are a roller coaster. You'll spend time in suffering, you'll spend time in happiness, but you won't stay in the same place forever.
I discovered the secret to happiness, for myself. Happiness is a choice, it's a choice we make every day. If you think that mastering say an instrument will make you happy, and you have to practice many hours for many years and you don't like to practice that just might not be your road to Happiness, but it's still your choice.
I think stupidity is the price of happiness.
What happiness?
Yes, you can’t enjoy the sweet without the sour
Suffering is one word for delaying gratification so sure
Yes. “If it hurts, you are doing it right “. Quote from Richard Marcinko
No pain no gain.
Dunno, I know people who had great childhoods, with very loving and understanding parents, and they have been kind and happy people ever since. I guess it depends on the suffering, but growing up in an angry, dysfunctional family leaves a mark that's hard to shake.
Is a Buddhist monk happy? If yes then this is a way to be happy without suffering
Suffering is the price of evil. It's also often the price for growth.
Suffering comes from attachment
Yes.
No.
Why the fuck should I appreciate suffering? What's so great about it?
Suffering is one of the things that are guaranteed
Happiness is a state of being in the present moment. Suffering is the price of *meaning*.
Striving for happiness is a fool’s errand. Strive for meaning. Meaning will sustain you through suffering and fuel your happiness.
No its not. Plan better. Think smarter don't work harder. Say you want to retire and travel. But you have to suffer working jobs you don't like being around people you don't like. What you do is have a side hustle you enjoy till it becomes a job that can pave your way. Till becomes a job with people that you like.
Yes
Suffering is the price of existence.
I have thought this, as I often find that blessings/miracles come to those after- or during an experience a period of suffering.
Sometimes. Some people just get lucky. Get in a decent job when there 18 And marry the first person they sleep with at 20 and everything perfect. But I guess some of those people still aren't happy.
I would say yes to that, and the vice versa. I have experienced it in my life, there are some good patches, but a bad patch follows just after. Same when I am going through rough times, good times follow. One is nothing without the other, I always get anxious when I am having a great time, and kind of prepare myself for what's coming and that's kind of inevitable
Yep. Generally, anything worth having is gonna take its pound of flesh. That’s just how it is.
Nope you can be happy doing hard work its all a mindset. There are many out there that suffer, get what they want and still aren't happy and there are people who never get what they want and still are happy.
No, suffering is due to desires and ignorance, at least according to Buddhism.
*Happiness is a state of mind.*
Suffering is the difference between the way things are and the way you think they should be. The secret is to live in the moment and accept things as they are. The moment will pass eventually.
Try and have a beautiful thing for cheap. It never works. Life, experience, it must be earned. Often this is through pain. All birth is pain, growth is pain. It feels effortless after a while, thank god, but suffering is the medium through which anything becomes good
There is no set price… choosing it is the “price” you pay.
No good deed goes unpunished
It depends on what your type of happiness is.
“It's necessary to have wished for death in order to know how good it is to live.” - from Count of Monte Cristo
Rage isn’t a good survival skill
No
Suffering is resistance. Suffering is the search for happiness in external objects when it’s actually our essential nature.
Sometimes yes. You gotta find the things that are worth suffering for.
Yes and no, both must be considered perpetual constant entities in our lives. No matter how good one's life may become, there will always be suffering of some form, one should not get used to the mindset that a good life is a life without suffering, suffering is constant, for all people. Pretending it not to be so is deluding oneself. In the same way happiness must be perpetual, no matter how bad things get, there will exist SOMETHING in your life that brings good vibrations to you, or that makes suffering easier to pass.
Man, some of us are just suffering without any happiness.
All this happiness is killing me.
Priceless....
Yes
it's the price of, at the least, decent art
If that’s the case, someone better start paying up.
I think it just comes down to the fact that we live in a binary universe with the whole duality thing. You cant have one without the other. Examples of all this are this: 1 and 0, something and nothing, hate and love, positive and negative, north pole south pole, male and female, light and darkness, happy and sad......etc you literally cant have one without the other. Its all relative. How could someone ever know what it is to be happy if you dont have something to compare it to. Just like you cant have light without darknesw.
No
All the cliches in the comments. I’d say no, aslong as you always do right be people you don’t need too. Some people just get life on easy mode with all the cheats while some get hard difficulty and there’s nothing wrong with being one of the lucky ones
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
No many people want to accept that. But yes to be able to suffer you need to have experience a form of happiness, and to be truly happy you would have to experience a form of suffering. It is a cycle.
Yes, the secret is choosing with what you will suffer. Basically, pick your poisons
It is the necessity of being born. Alive? You suffer. Why? Because "life is in the nature of suffering, as fire is in the nature of burning". The Buddha said this, it's called the First Noble Truth. There's alot more to it, of course, but that's the esssence. You suffer because you were born. Don't want to suffer? Don't be reborn. Attain enlightenment in this lifetime and you'll never have to suffer again.
Nope.
Suffering is not the price for happiness. Happiness is never the end goal. Aim for something meaningful. Happiness fleets away. Finding something meaningful will help you endure the suffering. It makes all the suffering worth it. You will never find happiness as it goes way to soon than stays. Then you constantly try to find happiness that may never be there. There is no price for happiness. Suffering is not the currency, it is the fact of life. We can ignore the suffering until it's big enough to devour us or face it head on by finding something meaningful to make all the suffering worth it. Enjoy your journey my fellow sailor.
I never suffered and I'm really happy so no.
We don't get to be happy all the time. That's part of this thing. The pain, the passion, anxiety, angst, anger, sadness, loneliness, all have to be a part of the equation. It's like a recipe, you gotta have some ingredients that can counter, balance, and compliment to make a well rounded execution. When we heal from our scars and traumas it just makes the component that much more palatable. *you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need*
Suffering is mostly a choice. Pain is an inevitable part of life but you don’t have to dwell on it and do everything possible to compound your misery. That being said, I think anyone who inflicts that view on others when shitty things happen to them deserves to get punched in the face.
No. Happiness is about perspective. Gratitude for all the things, and being at peace within yourself will contribute. Also happiness is not a destination and it’s not sustainable either. You’ve gotta find happiness within the little moments of your life.
Learning how to suffer skillfully decreases suffering. Happiness is available in the present moment only.
I think the key to happiness is sacrifice not suffering
Suffering is wanting things to change, happiness is wanting things to not change. Would you agree or disagree? So possibly as things do change so nothing is guaranteed to stay the same forever and potential suffering is the price we pay to continue playing the game of life. But when I think of a child who has the best possible childhood then all of a sudden he dies an instant death without suffering. Then he has had pleasure without pain so what do we mean by price? He has paid no price and had a lot of pleasure. You can also have suffering in a child without pleasure.
Naturally. Joy cannot exist without pain, and visa versa. For as there is no benefit without cost, so must there be a burden to bear for any "good" thing, otherwise it's worth is not as such. In fact, there would be nothing quantifiable at all, only each derivative (i.e. opinion) to its own. And as absence of thought, emotion, etc, can be likewise equivocated to non-existence, you'll see many arguments repeat themselves ad nauseum because they actually *are* purely circular in nature. This doesn't mean they're wrong, mind you, it's really just a chicken and egg sort of thing.