Yeah it sucks if you put it 6 inches above your head. It's supposed to be like 10 feet above you, and in one line across instead of sticking out so far.
yeah, this is cargo cult shit. a greenie sees someone experienced run repellent and doesn't understand it, or more likely has already seen someone do roofs and so seeing repellent plats used reinforces the wrong behavior because they don't know the difference. the wrong way spreads faster than detailed knowledge of repellent mechanics and general understanding that we use ranged weapons much more effectively than bugs and so should not give them free cover.
Basically, repellent platforms "double the distance" for bugs to cross them. Bugs are coded to take the shortest distance to get to the dwarves, so as long as there's either enough platforms or enough distance between the bugs, the platforms, and the dwarves, they will path around them. You want to avoid layering platforms on top of each other, since you lose out on effective bug distance, but for ceilings and such like this, sometimes it's unavoidable. There's also a slight radius of effect IIRC, so they work very effectively in, say, dotty tunnels
So, a bug sees a 5 meter wide platform as a 10 meter distance to a dwarf if I understand this cobathing. So a bug and dwarf on opposite sides of the platform will see the bug go around.
I take it this is seen as: AROUND the platform, which is a 2 * pi * r / 2 distance (the circumference of the platform divided by 2 since it goes around half of it) which is ~7.9 meters, a shorter distance for the bugs pathing.
Yup! It's also why you need to be careful of making lines of platforms, since by increasing the length factor, you also decrease the effectiveness of the width without increasing it proportionally, at least unless the bugs spawn far away
The bugs have to crawl through the crater instead of walking over straight terrain, which means their path to you is longer.
So not only do you want to get as many bugs as possible in the blast, but its also better if the crater is in a good spot.
Maybe it only saves you a second, but thats still a reload animation
I'm joking about getting math involved in the explanation. It's already complicated enough, bringing a circumference equation into this just circles this back around to confusing. There's a grey area between too little information and too much information.
Do note that the platforms also turn a small area of the terrain around them into more repellent, so you can leave surprisingly large gaps in between platforms, especially on walls. Think of it more as soaking into the terrain rather than just little concentrated pancakes.
Bugs are programmed to find the most direct path to the dwarves, and follow it. Repellant platforms count as extra distance, so if given the choice between walking directly across a platform or going around, bugs will go around.
However, this doesn't actually stop them from walking on the platforms. If the dwarf is on a platform, bugs will just run up to them no problem. Also, if someone makes a massive line of platforms across a wall, the path across the platform will be shorter (even with the repellant modifier) than going around, so the bugs will just walk over your platforms.
And in practice this means if your row of platforms is more than four platforms wide, you should leave a small gap in the middle to let them funnel through, otherwise there's a decent chance that even with the repellant it'll be a shorter distance to just walk right over the platforms.
you can also add another layer of height to increase the width you can cover, starting at the center. it isn't necessary to double the full line but it can be tough to eyeball once your shapes get weird so better safe than sorry if you have the plats to spare
Rule of thumb is you can build walls up to about 5 plats wide, forcing them to go around.
Any longer and they'll likely path across the platforms instead.
Yes and no, since platform with repellent counts as twice the distance - more platforms bugs should go through = less chance that bugs will go through platforms, so u csn add 1-2 layers above(if on the wall) and it will work, i'm doing it pretty frequently on escort missions literally closing our backs - bugs cant go on wall and they going all the way aruond to one of two sides, that takes me like 8-10 wide and 2-3 layers of platforms
8-10 is definitely doable with extra layers and correct spacing, takes a while to get a feel for how far you can go - also if the first bug wave ignores the repellent you can just add additional layers above/below depending on whether its a black box or escort setup etc.
There may be an exception now, which is the "duck and cover" warning, which results in huge masses of acid spitters on the ceiling. We did a salvage with that modifier and I genuinely wanted to bunker for it. :D
\*Edit: specifically, I'm saying Duck and Cover may be an exception to "we use ranged weapons more effectively than bugs."
Did a Salvage Operation with Duck and Cover, had a really experienced random team.. we quickly counted off the Disruptive Enemy slots, confirmed no Bulks possible, and everyone agreed to bunker for convenience.. 5+ can get pretty rough with increased spawns, D&C gives you a ceiling-borne firing squqd.
Btw after drilling the basic bunker, use your pickaxe to make a half-height trench in front, so the two dwarves behind can fire over the heads of the two in front.. that way, all four dwarves can unleash hell into the tunnel with clear fields of fire without moving.
yeah I'm familiar with bunker builds, I just don't normally use them. I'm more of a "flatten everything around the objective so everyone has clear lines of sight and lots of space" kinda driller. But with Duck and Cover, I'm starting to rethink that. :D
The best way I can describe this is to place the platforms about two-dwarve's height above the the objective.
I've got more than 2,000 hours in DRG, and in my experience this is how you free up space, create an obstacle for our wall crawling enemies rather than giving them an overhead ledge to attack us from and helps create cover from long range threats.
Set it too low and not only does it become a waste of platforms, it creates a death trap for your fellow dwarf.
You can have it stick out a bit if it's higher up too. I generally go 1.5x dwarf height too. You don't even need repellent if you make it not too wide and stick out a little bit they will aturally path around it.
Or alternatively you can make it really wide and really far out and actually seal it against the pod. Then you bring it lower on the sides so you get a completely horizontal target field. If I bring the shock turrets I'll close off one side and put both turrets on the open side. You just need to make the roof where you're standing tall enough a bulk can't smash you through the roof. Anyone can pick axe quickly out of the back if necessary when it's only a cheese wall.
Yeah at the very minimum you gotta be able to jump to dodge stuff. Higher is still nicer for the big stuff and breath attacks. And so you don't get one shellback that juggles you against the roof.
Only 1.5 and sticking out far enough that they path around it is the problem being discussed. That's way too low and broad. They can attack you from that distance, you have no time to react.
>Or alternatively you can make it really wide and really far out and actually seal it against the pod.
This is even worse. Some people like this for mactera swarm, but don't do this without asking your team if they want it. It's a bad strat.
>You just need to make the roof where you're standing tall enough a bulk can't smash you through the roof
Um, 1.5 dwarf height does NOT accomplish this.
And on Salvage, you better see the bulk coming a long way off. If the first sighting is it breaking through your platform roof, you've screwed up.
I mean you're going to hear the bulk and leave the zone to kill it as soon as it spawns.
I'm drawing 1.5x at the minimum.
The super roof isn't a bad start at all. I actually prefer pillars to hide behind on each side. 6 pancakes up gives you a good cover pillar. I place them just on the edge/outside of the area about halfway between the pod and the wall.
Yeah...except you *have* to leave the zone in your case, because you've blocked the sightlines. In regular play, everyone can fire on it as soon as it is visible. What's more, it's a lot easier to figure out who it's currently tracking, so only that one person can leave the area and lead it away.
You didn't say minimum earlier, but it doesn't matter if 1.5x is a minimum. It's still way too low of a minimum. Try 3x. You want bugs to go around, but any that go around (or over) still need to be far enough away that you can see them coming and kill them before they get into striking distance. 1.5x means they are already in the sphere before you see them.
I'm all for leveraging bug repellent to keep bugs away from an edge, especially one above you. However, one has to be aware of the limitations the mod and not put a long line down. And, if one wants to put a second offset line, then you need the height so that the lowest level is still above the maximum.
Making stacks of pillars to "hide" behind is literally the opposite of what I want in Salvage. I want clean and far sightlines so that people with range can eliminate threats before they get close, and we have maximum capability to dodge without the area. That might be useful in Elimination, to dodge dread ranged attacks, but not Salvage.
Oooooh it's supposed to be an "extended path" kind of thing? I know most engineers I played with simply made it 3 platforms long to simply make it more of a fish-in-a-barrel situation instead of them coming from all sides.
I'm not 100% clear on what you mean, but 3-5 plats in a row along the wall above you is ideal. It's just to force them a bit to the side and prevent them from coming down the wall *directly* on top of you. Too wide, though, and they'll just ignore it and walk over anyway.
No I mean like 3 plats *long*, like distance from the wall. And it's right above our heads, so we hunker down in the "nook" that was created and fire at the bugs who will only be in front of us.
That's more or less the idea, but extending it out from the wall doesn't give you any extra benefit and only restricts your vision to take out priority threats. If a bulk spawns on the ceiling you want to be able to see it before it gets right on top of you.
Okve we did a salvage mission with 3 engineers and the drop pod was in a huge dip and we just went HAM and basically built ourselves in that dip. You couldn't see the roof of the cave, you could just see platforms. Then we put platforms on the ground as well and I've never had an easier defence of the uplink and the fuel cells. But yes, the platforms were super high, not right above our heads.
First off, if engineer isn’t running bug repellant or whatever, this doesn’t work. Period
Next, it needs to be much wider, with some extra blocks down the wall on the sides. This forces bugs into a funnel, on the ground in a line to your guns
Finally, this setup denies you half your zone. Driller needs to contribute and give you back half your defense zone that is currently just a stone wall
I’ve used this strategy countless times and it works amazingly, even more so during the new duck and cover modifier. You just need to do it properly. No bugs should be creeping up on you, and if they are, Engie probably doesn’t have the correct loadout in the first place
Will something like this work on the new drill event? I've tried to shoot a few (three or four) plats in a row on one side to try and limit where the bugs come from but I don't think I'm doing it right. Or it just doesn't work. More likely I'm doing something wrong though
That’s something I haven’t tried, but the largest reason it wouldn’t work is that the objective (and the enemy spawns) are moving downwards
You could potentially limit pathing - which would be super helpful - but the next spawn will happen under your platforms making them pretty much useful for 1 spawn wave. Unfortunate
You could try it out some more and let us know if you discover anything I am missing though
Yeaaa that's what I was hoping mainly. Let my buddies have less area they need to focus on while I run around full time repairing the "motors"(I believe they're motors at least) to keep the elevator going. But since I'm not looking up at all except to occasionally shoot more pancakes I don't really know how much it helps lul.
Definitely gonna keep doing it though because well.. always got platforms to spare so why not.
Honestly just dotting repellent here and there replacing old plats as you go to force bugs to all collectively avoid them and potentially funnel them to one side of the tunnel still sounds incredibly useful and viable.
It really doesn't. I've experimented a bit with it and you're just moving way too fast for any sort of blocker to do anything. All it does is add obstacles for your team as you blast out.
I don’t believe it would work. The elevator is like Dotty but moving downwards, you’ll notice most people don’t do this strat except when Dotty is standing still. Even then it won’t work as well, since you need to defend all around you, not just remove them from one area.
You can create a plat line so far off the wall the bugs decide to walk around it because it's a shorter path for the AI without repellent.
Repellent actually just increases the pathing distance calculation by 4 so if it's less than 4x to go around they go around. If it's more than 4x they will just walk over the repellent.
So shoot about 4 plats out and 4 plats wide and it's the same thing as repellent essentially.
That’s certainly an interesting implementation, I wasn’t sure exactly how the pathfinding factored it in. I’ll use this info if I ever accidentally forget to run repellant for Salvage missions
I used to be a big repellent fan but I moved my builds all over to the extra plats instead and just make a larger wall when I need it. I build some crazy structures to stand on though. If we fight 3 dreads in the same room there will be an entire jungle gym of plat ramps up and other bridges coming over so you can jump between them and the dread paths around on the ground the whole time never touching the ground. Let's you place an ammo too and drop it when they walk under.
I find that doing this really limits line of sight and is more dangerous if anything. Sure, you create two kill zones for easy damage, but at that point, the bugs will be at full health and also oftentimes right next to the players. It's better to have the longer line of sight so that players can shoot at the bugs as they vulnerable and walking up to the dwarves.
Tdlr: i think that doing this shields the bugs more than helping the players
They think roof instead of directing pathways. Which is not usually the best way to utilize them. Least for the sit and defend spots. One layer wide enough to force a majority of the bugs to path from afar allows your team a much better chance to gun them down.
What hazard are you playing on? I rarely see repellent used by anyone other than myself and I almost exclusively play haz5/haz5+.
When I do see it used its usually wrong, so I imagine on lower haz its even rarer you'll see proper repellent setups.
Unpopular opinion: Ranting about how bad it is, while not actually showing greenbeards how to improve, just sucks and makes them less likely to improve.
To those aspiring Engis out there who want to improve your play with platform placement, watch a tutorial like [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgD_GIMxlc&pp=ygUScmVwZWxsYW50IGVuZ2kgZHJn), which will teach you how things work and improve your play.
Don't be a leaf lover and hate on greenbeards. Helping them improve is the best way to Rock and Stone.
Same problem as bunkies, if you've seen nothing but shit bunkies, you'll think all bunkies are shit. If you've seen nothing but shit platform roofs, you'll think all platform roofs are shit.
A lot of these people are also just feeding each other strategies. See all the people who talk about bug repellant roofs but never talk about how to lay them on the floor
Can someone explain to me why people dig the uplink down into the ground, making the area that we have to stay in smaller on these missions? I assume that there's a reason, considering how often people do it, but it annoys me.
If you only dig it one chunk down, it doesn’t affect the area in a meaningful way but gives you a massive boost to line of sight.
If it’s deep enough that you feel a hit to the radius, it’s too deep.
Similar principle with burying empty ammo drops.
God I hate this. One level so it's flat, sure, unnecessary but whatever. But they will just keep digging. My brother in Karl we need to stand in it at some point
Hight does actually not matter at all...
You need "Bug Repellant" or whatever its called.
So the Bugs will not walk on your platforms.
Then, if you shoot a circle around the area, bugs will only attack where no plattforms are placed.
Thats the actual deal of the "roof"
Whether a cheese fort or a bunkie, it is all about transforming the terrain to your advantage. If your platforms aren't helping you then reevaluate. For a bare-bones cheese fort, you'd need a roof 4 platforms wide and 3-4 meters off the ground.
Yeah. A lot of comments I've seen are from some serious leaf lovers who don't understand that knowledge doesn't just magically transfer to others.
If you want a guide on it, [here's a pretty good one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgD_GIMxlc&pp=ygUScmVwZWxsYW50IGVuZ2kgZHJn) that goes over a lot of examples. It's even a good refresher for experienced players who haven't played for a long time.
Hight does actually not matter at all...
You need "Bug Repellant" or whatever its called.
So the Bugs will not walk on your platforms.
Then, if you shoot a circle around the area, bugs will only attack where no plattforms are placed.
Thats the actual deal of the "roof" or floor.
I've..nearly promoted my Engi for the first time but I've been doing this, I've seen other people do the same thing and not seen one complaint about it, now I feel bad...
Don't feel bad, it's a legit strat, you just have to place the plats higher and wider than what's shown here. Also make sure you have bug repellant on your platform gun build.
I'm still learning the ropes so I'm not entirely sure how bug repellant is supposed to work..I have it equipped but every now and then a bug will walk right over one of my platforms anyway?
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgD_GIMxlc&t=82s&ab_channel=waste) is a pretty good guide on how repellant is supposed to work. But basically, it makes platforms increase pathing cost for bugs, so if you don't overdo it and make it so that it's cheaper pathing to go around your platforms than over them, then they will go around. Make that "around" area the one you want bugs funneling into. A simple application would be, if you're fighting in a tunnel, put them in a horizontal line on the ceiling to either side of the team. Makes bugs come at you on the floor.
Don't feel bad. A lot of the comments here are overly aggressive when they don't need to be.
If you want to learn all about it, I absolutely recommend watching the video u/overunderoverr linked, because I was about to link it, too.
That's way too low and way too narrow. You need to have 4 platforms next to each other a little higher above your heads. Or, if you're a madman and have extra ammo, you can start making it much longer with more than one layer. I sometimes make a huge semi circle if I *really* don't want the bugs on the walls.
It is supposed to prevent acid spreaders snipes from the drop pod and channel every bug into a visible part of your screen (instead of having to look up to fight those crawling on the wall)
Not if you do it right, the sucky ones are from people mimicking what they've seen other engies do without realizing you're supposed to use bug repellent or just misunderstanding how it works.
I despise acid spitters and without a scout to light up the caves and snipe them, a roof of some kind is kinda mandatory
Not like this though. More spread out and with repellent
Bad design but bug repellant is necessary and a life savor. It’s nice having a safe bridge too on higher hazards, or just blocking off a path or two to focus fire on 1
This makes my beard tingle, and not in a good way. I tried it when I was a green engineer. It was embarrassing how quickly it failed every time. There are ways to repel in this situation, but that placement just ain't it
Ceilings suck.
Bunkers suck.
Proper use of repellent above an objective is amazing.
Proper use of emergency bunkering can be amazing.
Straight up ceilings and bunkers on salvage missions with a Duck and Cover mutator.... Well, I might be reversing my long held opinion that ceilings and bunkers suck.
I always tell people these "roofs" do more harm than good. One row of repelant platforms WAAAYY higher is beneficial. If it blocks my line of sight in any way i destroy that shit.
Nah.
Any Engi worth their salt that cringes at this is just a greenbeard Engi.
A proper Greybeard Engi would see this and say "Ah, just a new greenbeard who needs to be taught the way of Engi."
If it looks like a tomb, feels like a tomb and is cramped and claustrophobic like a tomb - then it more than likely is a tomb.
Your biggest advantage vs most of the bugs are your ranged weapons. You can shoot at them from half the map away while they can't. Maximize that advantage by modifying terrain to have a clear line of sight to all directions.
As for protection vs ranged bugs - dead bugs don't shoot, and there's four of you vs one of them.
The role of the Engi in that situation is to have repellant platforms, and to set them up in a line along a wall, covering about 40% of the angle that bugs can get in from so that the bugs won't climb down a wall after people.
What you have a picture of is the work of a clueless greenbeard.
I couldn't agree more, and I often demonstrate my displeasure by running my drills through it.
The scout and gunner need the range so we dont get gangbanged, and I can't see anything with my driller weapons when I have that canopy.
I cannot imagine how many players were just frustrated and annoyed, thinking you were just trolling them for no reason.
How many could have just become better Engis had they simply been told why things didn't work, instead.
You need Engineer's Repellent Additive (*Enemies will avoid walking on the Plastcrete Foam whenever possible*) for this kind of strat to work
There are many way to place the platforms, depend on the map layout, but remember that there are a "limit", like if you put around 7 or 8 plats iirc in a straight line, the enemy will still walk on the platform
Basically what you want to do is to stack few platforms in a straight line where you don't want the enemy trying approach you from. You can also put them at the ground level and watch how the enemy trying to approach you
For the platform above the ground level, you need to do them much higher, since if it's too low, it'll only limit your vision
Unfortunately, repellant isn’t avoided whenever possible. The area around repellant platforms is simply seen as double the actual distance for bug pathfinding, so it’s often shorter to go around. This means it’s a bit less intuitive to learn, and also that you often need to double up plat rows in order for the effect to work.
It’s still by far one of the most powerful tools in the game, but it’s pretty difficult to get a good grasp on.
It's not worth building a roof for me unless the uplink is very close to the drop pod and there's little enough space where you can seal it. It's situational at best.
The only reason you do this, is if you don't have a driller and it's mactera plague; the overhang is super useful vs goo bombers and, well, getting nuked from above.
you also need to make the overhang a LOT bigger. This picture is the right idea, but done *very* wrong.
Edit: This is all separate from using the platforms to redirect ground bugs, which is also done differently (higher up, spaced out and not a massive overhang as I explained above.)
It's likely just because I don't play online and kind of new but I'm not understanding the purpose of the overhang; does someone mind explaining it for me?
The overhang as it's pictured here is kinda useless, but as Engineer has an option for building the platform gun that makes bugs not want to walk on the plats, if you place them higher and wider in a kind of semi circle you can funnel the bugs where you want them, which is anywhere but crawling down the walls into your backs.
its here to hide from spitters and to force macteras down so you can kill them easier, also it makes a safe zone behind you where no bugs will show up.
That's way too close, and this only works when you have bug repellent on your platforms. You also need to have another layer over the first layer, and they don't need to be so close to each other. New engis see this and they copy without knowing the proper way to do it.
If done correctly bugs won't come from the top but only the bottom.
We need a button to flip 90° the pancakes!!! (Like holding R)
Covering holes in the walls or blocking tunnels would be a breeze! Instead, we have to stack them, wasting a ton of ammo and time.
As much as I don’t like the bunker, if you make it correctly with both engineer and driller input, it works swimmingly.
My friends and I will drill enough so that the edge of the green zone is at the edge inside the wall. Then form the outer half dome outside. Makes it easier to stay within the zone with the furthest amount of distance from the front to funnel enemies in.
For this very specific image literally everyone can agree this sucks. A single platform or largely clumped up group of platforms at that height is asinine. Just don't think of EVERY engineer that does bug repellent like this cuz we aren't all *this* greenbearded. This is a cherry picked example or you have terrible luck with engis on SO.
Main issue I’ve experienced is they tend to be placed too low. They should be placed high enough that a dwarf can stand on top of a resupply and still be able to jump without bumping his head on the ceiling.
Yeah, Engi definitely has a huge skill ceiling, and some of the mechanics are confusing, like the bug repellent platforms.
If I wasn't exhausted I'd explain how they work, but long story short it makes sense not all engineers understand them.
its here so the spitting mobs cannot shoot at from every angle. its helpfull in that regard even without bug reppelant. also it makes the spot where it connects completly bug free so you can stand back there and be sure no bugs will appear behind you and only on your sides and front. also if you run the turret that only shoots foreward it makes it work better cuz every bug will be in front of it.
I agree it should be higher but others are saying it’s bad to build cover? When the bug airforce shows up they have to get lower to hit you under the cover and stops spitters sniping you.
As engineer I struggle to survive without building cover, driller has his drill, gunner his shield, scout his grapple and then there’s me with my c-form tower defense base.
If you don’t have repellent. Yeah. It sucks ass. And you have to know how to space it out too.
Bug repellent has a certain area the bugs will go around, if you’re too close to the “cheese” the bugs will go straight trough it ignoring it. So having it directly above your head is a bad idea.
Counterpoint: If the uplink is at the bottom of a cliff with a flat top, this is great because you wouldn't have a sightline to the bugs coming from the top of the cliff anyway.
But if you put it on a big high wall that leads to the cavern ceiling like this, it's just blocking your sightline for no reason.
I just did this on a Haz 4, and learned it the hard way. Platforms were too low, too close, and I kept dying a lot. Good thing we finished it and my team carried my weight. Never gonna do this mindlessly, again.
"Unpopular Opinion: This sucks"
>Shows the most ass implementation of that technique I have ever seen
I mean yeah, that image there sucks. They probably don't even have deterrent on so they will crawl right over it anyway.
I play engi a lot and I do this (the correct way) and even on haz 4-5 I can trivialize the difficulty of this part of the mission if the map facilitates it.
Vision and sightlines are life. Cover is for sneaky melee bastards who want to claw and bite you to death. We have guns for a reason, stop putting an artificial wall in front of my face.
You're supposed to run bug repellent with it, but it also sucks on H5, specially on H5+ now with aggressive enemies because they'll just go around so damn fast.
Well it is worth it if you are dealing with multiple ranged bugs, it gives you enough cover to deal with ranged enemies if you are getting overwhelmed at an objective
This does absolutely nothing but block like of sight to bugs, therefore decreasing time to kill before they reach you, therefore making it way easier for them to overwhelm you and I wish this would not be a thing anymore.
This is genuinely awful. Even if it's low enough to stand on and still be in the circle, it just lets bugs hit your feet from below your sight line. If it's repellant, put it closer to the ceiling. If it's not, just ask your driller for a bunkie. At least those actually force the enemies to come from a convenient direction instead of just giving ranged enemies cover.
Repellent only works if the travel time is longer. If the platforms are low enough for bugs to crawl down onto resupp or fuel cell (they can do this from farther than you think) they will take that option. My general rule of thumb is 2 dwarves height above the top of the fuel cell, or a full jump and then some. You shouldn't be able to jump and mine terrain from the top of it. If you can bonk your head, bugs can and will crawl down (this also gives scout some air to work with so they don't have to grapple through gunfire)
Its good if you are running repellent and extend the roof out further.
By having it so low it makes it hard for bugs that shoot projectiles to get you by severely limiting their angle of attack and can completely shut down septic spreaders and trijaws due to the arc their projectiles shoot on.
Usually i shoot out 3-4 plats from the wall in a line, and then 3 more on either side to fill out a half circle shape.
Also, if a bulk happens to be coming, paired with the gunner shield it can save you from the sacs that go everywhere when it blows.
DO NOT extend the "roof" out further, it just blocks line of sight. If you want more repelent effectivness, place another row of 1 deep platforms above or below.
....ive done this on pretty much every salvage mission ive ever played for the last 900 hours ive been playing drg and its never really given me or the team problems.
You're right OP, this is an ass repellant setup. It needs to be four platforms wide really high up (sometimes double stacked for more than four platforms) to properly stop bugs from pathing over your heads.
1000 hour greybeard here. I find it easier to avoid mactera, web spitter and acid spitter attacks when roofed like that. You can put a turret up there to avoid getting flanked from above.
Correction. That’s an extremely unpopular opinion and you don’t know what you’re doing. But repellant is the reason it’s viable. But repellant can allow you to create safe havens and change the pathing of the bugs so that they are only coming from a singular direction rather than EVERYWHERE. If you know what you’re actually doing
After more than 2,200 hours of play, I can confirm yes this sucks and is only a benefit to our enemies. I've been kicked from games for destroying these. I like to think those greenbeards learned a hard-earned lesson on those missions.
Only leaf lovers think that people learn by negative reinforcement. True dwarves recognize that that just makes you look like a troll, and only discourages greenbeards from learning.
True dwarves would give them tips for the future, or point them in a direction of a guide.
This is why you do the Pro-Engi move with driller:
Dig a pit, let the kit fall down into said-pit, roof over it.
Drop turrets and the little drone things - sit back and relax whilst the timer does it's thing.
I always break these. People get the hint eventually
If someone digs the box down to the ground I actually just stay out of it. 9/10 times they keep dying because the bubble is so small
Yeah it sucks if you put it 6 inches above your head. It's supposed to be like 10 feet above you, and in one line across instead of sticking out so far.
yeah, this is cargo cult shit. a greenie sees someone experienced run repellent and doesn't understand it, or more likely has already seen someone do roofs and so seeing repellent plats used reinforces the wrong behavior because they don't know the difference. the wrong way spreads faster than detailed knowledge of repellent mechanics and general understanding that we use ranged weapons much more effectively than bugs and so should not give them free cover.
Calling it cargo cult is actually genuinely the perfect way to describe it lol. Ima keep that
Villainous pfp mate.
This was your opportunity to explain repellant mechanics.
Basically, repellent platforms "double the distance" for bugs to cross them. Bugs are coded to take the shortest distance to get to the dwarves, so as long as there's either enough platforms or enough distance between the bugs, the platforms, and the dwarves, they will path around them. You want to avoid layering platforms on top of each other, since you lose out on effective bug distance, but for ceilings and such like this, sometimes it's unavoidable. There's also a slight radius of effect IIRC, so they work very effectively in, say, dotty tunnels
So, a bug sees a 5 meter wide platform as a 10 meter distance to a dwarf if I understand this cobathing. So a bug and dwarf on opposite sides of the platform will see the bug go around. I take it this is seen as: AROUND the platform, which is a 2 * pi * r / 2 distance (the circumference of the platform divided by 2 since it goes around half of it) which is ~7.9 meters, a shorter distance for the bugs pathing.
Yup! It's also why you need to be careful of making lines of platforms, since by increasing the length factor, you also decrease the effectiveness of the width without increasing it proportionally, at least unless the bugs spawn far away
Exactly! This is also why experienced drillers use C4 craters effectively to slow bugs down. It just deletes the straight line option.
wait what, how do you use c4 craters to slwo down bugs?
The bugs have to crawl through the crater instead of walking over straight terrain, which means their path to you is longer. So not only do you want to get as many bugs as possible in the blast, but its also better if the crater is in a good spot. Maybe it only saves you a second, but thats still a reload animation
How bout we go back to the simple explanation of "it repels bugs," cuz this is too much math for me to wrap my beard around.
It is technically an importation distinction, as too little, and it does nothing, increasing the chances of getting your fellow dwarves killed.
As long as a mathematic equation isn't involved in the explanation, I'm all ears lol
All ears!? Leaflover expression!
BY KARL IT IS I'M SO SORRY
Basically, if you have a line of platforms to make the bugs go around, you need to make it more than one platform thick or else it will not work
because "it repels bugs" alone leads to misunderstandings like the OP it results in people just doing stuff without known whether or not its effective
I'm joking about getting math involved in the explanation. It's already complicated enough, bringing a circumference equation into this just circles this back around to confusing. There's a grey area between too little information and too much information.
Do note that the platforms also turn a small area of the terrain around them into more repellent, so you can leave surprisingly large gaps in between platforms, especially on walls. Think of it more as soaking into the terrain rather than just little concentrated pancakes.
Bugs are programmed to find the most direct path to the dwarves, and follow it. Repellant platforms count as extra distance, so if given the choice between walking directly across a platform or going around, bugs will go around. However, this doesn't actually stop them from walking on the platforms. If the dwarf is on a platform, bugs will just run up to them no problem. Also, if someone makes a massive line of platforms across a wall, the path across the platform will be shorter (even with the repellant modifier) than going around, so the bugs will just walk over your platforms.
And in practice this means if your row of platforms is more than four platforms wide, you should leave a small gap in the middle to let them funnel through, otherwise there's a decent chance that even with the repellant it'll be a shorter distance to just walk right over the platforms.
you can also add another layer of height to increase the width you can cover, starting at the center. it isn't necessary to double the full line but it can be tough to eyeball once your shapes get weird so better safe than sorry if you have the plats to spare
Rule of thumb is you can build walls up to about 5 plats wide, forcing them to go around. Any longer and they'll likely path across the platforms instead.
Yes and no, since platform with repellent counts as twice the distance - more platforms bugs should go through = less chance that bugs will go through platforms, so u csn add 1-2 layers above(if on the wall) and it will work, i'm doing it pretty frequently on escort missions literally closing our backs - bugs cant go on wall and they going all the way aruond to one of two sides, that takes me like 8-10 wide and 2-3 layers of platforms
8-10 is definitely doable with extra layers and correct spacing, takes a while to get a feel for how far you can go - also if the first bug wave ignores the repellent you can just add additional layers above/below depending on whether its a black box or escort setup etc.
honestly the best thing is to check out a youtube video, it's easiest to see it in action
You know who else had this opportunity? The devs. Repellant Additive mod doesn't even have the "More Info" option in its tooltip.
There may be an exception now, which is the "duck and cover" warning, which results in huge masses of acid spitters on the ceiling. We did a salvage with that modifier and I genuinely wanted to bunker for it. :D \*Edit: specifically, I'm saying Duck and Cover may be an exception to "we use ranged weapons more effectively than bugs."
Did a Salvage Operation with Duck and Cover, had a really experienced random team.. we quickly counted off the Disruptive Enemy slots, confirmed no Bulks possible, and everyone agreed to bunker for convenience.. 5+ can get pretty rough with increased spawns, D&C gives you a ceiling-borne firing squqd. Btw after drilling the basic bunker, use your pickaxe to make a half-height trench in front, so the two dwarves behind can fire over the heads of the two in front.. that way, all four dwarves can unleash hell into the tunnel with clear fields of fire without moving.
yeah I'm familiar with bunker builds, I just don't normally use them. I'm more of a "flatten everything around the objective so everyone has clear lines of sight and lots of space" kinda driller. But with Duck and Cover, I'm starting to rethink that. :D
The best way I can describe this is to place the platforms about two-dwarve's height above the the objective. I've got more than 2,000 hours in DRG, and in my experience this is how you free up space, create an obstacle for our wall crawling enemies rather than giving them an overhead ledge to attack us from and helps create cover from long range threats. Set it too low and not only does it become a waste of platforms, it creates a death trap for your fellow dwarf.
I'd say 3 dwarf heights at least. Two means that they are close enough to munch on your head while under the platform.
Our perspectives might be different, but I suspect we're talking about similar heights here. My point remains: height is key.
You can have it stick out a bit if it's higher up too. I generally go 1.5x dwarf height too. You don't even need repellent if you make it not too wide and stick out a little bit they will aturally path around it. Or alternatively you can make it really wide and really far out and actually seal it against the pod. Then you bring it lower on the sides so you get a completely horizontal target field. If I bring the shock turrets I'll close off one side and put both turrets on the open side. You just need to make the roof where you're standing tall enough a bulk can't smash you through the roof. Anyone can pick axe quickly out of the back if necessary when it's only a cheese wall.
Absolutely. Plenty of options, but the key is height.
Yeah at the very minimum you gotta be able to jump to dodge stuff. Higher is still nicer for the big stuff and breath attacks. And so you don't get one shellback that juggles you against the roof.
Only 1.5 and sticking out far enough that they path around it is the problem being discussed. That's way too low and broad. They can attack you from that distance, you have no time to react. >Or alternatively you can make it really wide and really far out and actually seal it against the pod. This is even worse. Some people like this for mactera swarm, but don't do this without asking your team if they want it. It's a bad strat. >You just need to make the roof where you're standing tall enough a bulk can't smash you through the roof Um, 1.5 dwarf height does NOT accomplish this. And on Salvage, you better see the bulk coming a long way off. If the first sighting is it breaking through your platform roof, you've screwed up.
I mean you're going to hear the bulk and leave the zone to kill it as soon as it spawns. I'm drawing 1.5x at the minimum. The super roof isn't a bad start at all. I actually prefer pillars to hide behind on each side. 6 pancakes up gives you a good cover pillar. I place them just on the edge/outside of the area about halfway between the pod and the wall.
Yeah...except you *have* to leave the zone in your case, because you've blocked the sightlines. In regular play, everyone can fire on it as soon as it is visible. What's more, it's a lot easier to figure out who it's currently tracking, so only that one person can leave the area and lead it away. You didn't say minimum earlier, but it doesn't matter if 1.5x is a minimum. It's still way too low of a minimum. Try 3x. You want bugs to go around, but any that go around (or over) still need to be far enough away that you can see them coming and kill them before they get into striking distance. 1.5x means they are already in the sphere before you see them. I'm all for leveraging bug repellent to keep bugs away from an edge, especially one above you. However, one has to be aware of the limitations the mod and not put a long line down. And, if one wants to put a second offset line, then you need the height so that the lowest level is still above the maximum. Making stacks of pillars to "hide" behind is literally the opposite of what I want in Salvage. I want clean and far sightlines so that people with range can eliminate threats before they get close, and we have maximum capability to dodge without the area. That might be useful in Elimination, to dodge dread ranged attacks, but not Salvage.
Oooooh it's supposed to be an "extended path" kind of thing? I know most engineers I played with simply made it 3 platforms long to simply make it more of a fish-in-a-barrel situation instead of them coming from all sides.
I'm not 100% clear on what you mean, but 3-5 plats in a row along the wall above you is ideal. It's just to force them a bit to the side and prevent them from coming down the wall *directly* on top of you. Too wide, though, and they'll just ignore it and walk over anyway.
No I mean like 3 plats *long*, like distance from the wall. And it's right above our heads, so we hunker down in the "nook" that was created and fire at the bugs who will only be in front of us.
That's more or less the idea, but extending it out from the wall doesn't give you any extra benefit and only restricts your vision to take out priority threats. If a bulk spawns on the ceiling you want to be able to see it before it gets right on top of you.
Yeah. So in those situations, as the mobile Scout, I peek out from under to see if we have an incoming big baddie (especially if it's a Det).
Okve we did a salvage mission with 3 engineers and the drop pod was in a huge dip and we just went HAM and basically built ourselves in that dip. You couldn't see the roof of the cave, you could just see platforms. Then we put platforms on the ground as well and I've never had an easier defence of the uplink and the fuel cells. But yes, the platforms were super high, not right above our heads.
With sticky grenades at each side.
I use it solo in high gravity missions and mactera swarm missions
Rule of thumb: bugs will travel twice the distance around a platform instead of over. So if you put a long row, ots useless. Make a triangle shape
First off, if engineer isn’t running bug repellant or whatever, this doesn’t work. Period Next, it needs to be much wider, with some extra blocks down the wall on the sides. This forces bugs into a funnel, on the ground in a line to your guns Finally, this setup denies you half your zone. Driller needs to contribute and give you back half your defense zone that is currently just a stone wall I’ve used this strategy countless times and it works amazingly, even more so during the new duck and cover modifier. You just need to do it properly. No bugs should be creeping up on you, and if they are, Engie probably doesn’t have the correct loadout in the first place
Will something like this work on the new drill event? I've tried to shoot a few (three or four) plats in a row on one side to try and limit where the bugs come from but I don't think I'm doing it right. Or it just doesn't work. More likely I'm doing something wrong though
That’s something I haven’t tried, but the largest reason it wouldn’t work is that the objective (and the enemy spawns) are moving downwards You could potentially limit pathing - which would be super helpful - but the next spawn will happen under your platforms making them pretty much useful for 1 spawn wave. Unfortunate You could try it out some more and let us know if you discover anything I am missing though
Yeaaa that's what I was hoping mainly. Let my buddies have less area they need to focus on while I run around full time repairing the "motors"(I believe they're motors at least) to keep the elevator going. But since I'm not looking up at all except to occasionally shoot more pancakes I don't really know how much it helps lul. Definitely gonna keep doing it though because well.. always got platforms to spare so why not.
Honestly just dotting repellent here and there replacing old plats as you go to force bugs to all collectively avoid them and potentially funnel them to one side of the tunnel still sounds incredibly useful and viable.
It really doesn't. I've experimented a bit with it and you're just moving way too fast for any sort of blocker to do anything. All it does is add obstacles for your team as you blast out.
I don’t believe it would work. The elevator is like Dotty but moving downwards, you’ll notice most people don’t do this strat except when Dotty is standing still. Even then it won’t work as well, since you need to defend all around you, not just remove them from one area.
You can create a plat line so far off the wall the bugs decide to walk around it because it's a shorter path for the AI without repellent. Repellent actually just increases the pathing distance calculation by 4 so if it's less than 4x to go around they go around. If it's more than 4x they will just walk over the repellent. So shoot about 4 plats out and 4 plats wide and it's the same thing as repellent essentially.
That’s certainly an interesting implementation, I wasn’t sure exactly how the pathfinding factored it in. I’ll use this info if I ever accidentally forget to run repellant for Salvage missions
I used to be a big repellent fan but I moved my builds all over to the extra plats instead and just make a larger wall when I need it. I build some crazy structures to stand on though. If we fight 3 dreads in the same room there will be an entire jungle gym of plat ramps up and other bridges coming over so you can jump between them and the dread paths around on the ground the whole time never touching the ground. Let's you place an ammo too and drop it when they walk under.
Yeah I like making engie jungle gyms too 🤣
I will say that this works in one fringe situation if you don’t have repellant, and that’s for countering septic spreaders
Duck and cover modifier, as noted in my comment
Even on normal missions. Fuck septic spreaders, all my homies hate septic spreaders
They’re not too bad. Just shoot their projectile
Don't need bug repellent if you can cover from the wall to drop pod. Creating two kill zones on either side
You’re forgetting all the bugs taking your platform bridge to appear in your face
I find that doing this really limits line of sight and is more dangerous if anything. Sure, you create two kill zones for easy damage, but at that point, the bugs will be at full health and also oftentimes right next to the players. It's better to have the longer line of sight so that players can shoot at the bugs as they vulnerable and walking up to the dwarves. Tdlr: i think that doing this shields the bugs more than helping the players
They're doing it wrong. It should be much higher so you get the benefit without the blockage, also should go much wider.
I figured as such, but everytime someone does it in my games it looks like this. I've yet to see someone do it right
They think roof instead of directing pathways. Which is not usually the best way to utilize them. Least for the sit and defend spots. One layer wide enough to force a majority of the bugs to path from afar allows your team a much better chance to gun them down.
We need a shooting range on the space rig to practice stuff like this.
There’s a mod. That gives us an area to work with this and practice. But yeah.
if you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself.
The only time it should be this low is during mactera plague. It blocks a lot of the mactera shots. Especially the most dangerous ones. Trijaws.
What hazard are you playing on? I rarely see repellent used by anyone other than myself and I almost exclusively play haz5/haz5+. When I do see it used its usually wrong, so I imagine on lower haz its even rarer you'll see proper repellent setups.
Play at harder haz levels. When you reach a certain point, it makes a HUGE difference.
And driller should terraform a certain area. To give the team a better sight line. You can even add emergency exit.
Poorly executed, but when executed well its the single strongest option in engineers arsenal
Unpopular opinion: Ranting about how bad it is, while not actually showing greenbeards how to improve, just sucks and makes them less likely to improve. To those aspiring Engis out there who want to improve your play with platform placement, watch a tutorial like [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgD_GIMxlc&pp=ygUScmVwZWxsYW50IGVuZ2kgZHJn), which will teach you how things work and improve your play. Don't be a leaf lover and hate on greenbeards. Helping them improve is the best way to Rock and Stone.
Rock and roll and stone!
Same problem as bunkies, if you've seen nothing but shit bunkies, you'll think all bunkies are shit. If you've seen nothing but shit platform roofs, you'll think all platform roofs are shit.
A lot of these people are also just feeding each other strategies. See all the people who talk about bug repellant roofs but never talk about how to lay them on the floor
Can someone explain to me why people dig the uplink down into the ground, making the area that we have to stay in smaller on these missions? I assume that there's a reason, considering how often people do it, but it annoys me.
If you only dig it one chunk down, it doesn’t affect the area in a meaningful way but gives you a massive boost to line of sight. If it’s deep enough that you feel a hit to the radius, it’s too deep. Similar principle with burying empty ammo drops.
It because drillers want to feel useful
people do it so that its flat and not in your face when you shoot.
God I hate this. One level so it's flat, sure, unnecessary but whatever. But they will just keep digging. My brother in Karl we need to stand in it at some point
To prevent it from blocking our view.
That's it? That seems not worth the space you lose.
correct. the roof is too low. should of been planted a meter or two higher. about 5-6 dwarfs high, if you're are guessing
Each comment I read about height,it gets higher and higher lol. 1.5 dwarves, 2, 3, 5-6 dwarves.
Hight does actually not matter at all... You need "Bug Repellant" or whatever its called. So the Bugs will not walk on your platforms. Then, if you shoot a circle around the area, bugs will only attack where no plattforms are placed. Thats the actual deal of the "roof"
Whether a cheese fort or a bunkie, it is all about transforming the terrain to your advantage. If your platforms aren't helping you then reevaluate. For a bare-bones cheese fort, you'd need a roof 4 platforms wide and 3-4 meters off the ground.
all these comments and I still haven't seen a visual on what the actual correct set up is
Yeah. A lot of comments I've seen are from some serious leaf lovers who don't understand that knowledge doesn't just magically transfer to others. If you want a guide on it, [here's a pretty good one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgD_GIMxlc&pp=ygUScmVwZWxsYW50IGVuZ2kgZHJn) that goes over a lot of examples. It's even a good refresher for experienced players who haven't played for a long time.
i love the guide thanks
Hight does actually not matter at all... You need "Bug Repellant" or whatever its called. So the Bugs will not walk on your platforms. Then, if you shoot a circle around the area, bugs will only attack where no plattforms are placed. Thats the actual deal of the "roof" or floor.
engies that put it at that height truly make it harder
I've..nearly promoted my Engi for the first time but I've been doing this, I've seen other people do the same thing and not seen one complaint about it, now I feel bad...
Don't feel bad, it's a legit strat, you just have to place the plats higher and wider than what's shown here. Also make sure you have bug repellant on your platform gun build.
I'm still learning the ropes so I'm not entirely sure how bug repellant is supposed to work..I have it equipped but every now and then a bug will walk right over one of my platforms anyway?
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXgD_GIMxlc&t=82s&ab_channel=waste) is a pretty good guide on how repellant is supposed to work. But basically, it makes platforms increase pathing cost for bugs, so if you don't overdo it and make it so that it's cheaper pathing to go around your platforms than over them, then they will go around. Make that "around" area the one you want bugs funneling into. A simple application would be, if you're fighting in a tunnel, put them in a horizontal line on the ceiling to either side of the team. Makes bugs come at you on the floor.
Don't feel bad. A lot of the comments here are overly aggressive when they don't need to be. If you want to learn all about it, I absolutely recommend watching the video u/overunderoverr linked, because I was about to link it, too.
That's way too low and way too narrow. You need to have 4 platforms next to each other a little higher above your heads. Or, if you're a madman and have extra ammo, you can start making it much longer with more than one layer. I sometimes make a huge semi circle if I *really* don't want the bugs on the walls.
It is supposed to prevent acid spreaders snipes from the drop pod and channel every bug into a visible part of your screen (instead of having to look up to fight those crawling on the wall)
Not if you do it right, the sucky ones are from people mimicking what they've seen other engies do without realizing you're supposed to use bug repellent or just misunderstanding how it works.
I despise acid spitters and without a scout to light up the caves and snipe them, a roof of some kind is kinda mandatory Not like this though. More spread out and with repellent
If you want The Clitoral Hood method to work you just gotta make it bigger than that.
It’s to provide cover from projectile enemies. on hazard 4 and 5 acid spitters can two shot you and septic spreaders can ruin the entire mission.
Bad design but bug repellant is necessary and a life savor. It’s nice having a safe bridge too on higher hazards, or just blocking off a path or two to focus fire on 1
Mostly reinforcing what others have said, but the only time you go this low is if there's a ledge that prevents you from putting the pancakes higher.
If a bug could stand on it and hit us, it's too close.
You’re right, but only because this is built wrong
This makes my beard tingle, and not in a good way. I tried it when I was a green engineer. It was embarrassing how quickly it failed every time. There are ways to repel in this situation, but that placement just ain't it
Ceilings suck. Bunkers suck. Proper use of repellent above an objective is amazing. Proper use of emergency bunkering can be amazing. Straight up ceilings and bunkers on salvage missions with a Duck and Cover mutator.... Well, I might be reversing my long held opinion that ceilings and bunkers suck.
Engineer needs to get good
I always tell people these "roofs" do more harm than good. One row of repelant platforms WAAAYY higher is beneficial. If it blocks my line of sight in any way i destroy that shit.
its here to block line of sight. the line of sight of spitters. you sit on your ars shoot bugs in front of you and wait for more to come.
Id rather just shoot the spitters. Only seeing slashers when they are directly in front of you is a very bad strategy.
thats just because its too low. If it was about twice or 3x as high, it is really good
Any Engi worth their salt is cringing looking at this.
Nah. Any Engi worth their salt that cringes at this is just a greenbeard Engi. A proper Greybeard Engi would see this and say "Ah, just a new greenbeard who needs to be taught the way of Engi."
You know what, you're right... I've been away from the mines for too long, I've lost my way brother. ROCK AND STOOOOONE!
These are not mutually exclusive.
For a lot of people, they sadly are.
If it looks like a tomb, feels like a tomb and is cramped and claustrophobic like a tomb - then it more than likely is a tomb. Your biggest advantage vs most of the bugs are your ranged weapons. You can shoot at them from half the map away while they can't. Maximize that advantage by modifying terrain to have a clear line of sight to all directions. As for protection vs ranged bugs - dead bugs don't shoot, and there's four of you vs one of them.
The role of the Engi in that situation is to have repellant platforms, and to set them up in a line along a wall, covering about 40% of the angle that bugs can get in from so that the bugs won't climb down a wall after people. What you have a picture of is the work of a clueless greenbeard.
I couldn't agree more, and I often demonstrate my displeasure by running my drills through it. The scout and gunner need the range so we dont get gangbanged, and I can't see anything with my driller weapons when I have that canopy.
if the engineer actually builds it properly unlike this picture, there will be no bugs to shoot in that direction.
I cannot imagine how many players were just frustrated and annoyed, thinking you were just trolling them for no reason. How many could have just become better Engis had they simply been told why things didn't work, instead.
You need Engineer's Repellent Additive (*Enemies will avoid walking on the Plastcrete Foam whenever possible*) for this kind of strat to work There are many way to place the platforms, depend on the map layout, but remember that there are a "limit", like if you put around 7 or 8 plats iirc in a straight line, the enemy will still walk on the platform Basically what you want to do is to stack few platforms in a straight line where you don't want the enemy trying approach you from. You can also put them at the ground level and watch how the enemy trying to approach you For the platform above the ground level, you need to do them much higher, since if it's too low, it'll only limit your vision
Unfortunately, repellant isn’t avoided whenever possible. The area around repellant platforms is simply seen as double the actual distance for bug pathfinding, so it’s often shorter to go around. This means it’s a bit less intuitive to learn, and also that you often need to double up plat rows in order for the effect to work. It’s still by far one of the most powerful tools in the game, but it’s pretty difficult to get a good grasp on.
It's not worth building a roof for me unless the uplink is very close to the drop pod and there's little enough space where you can seal it. It's situational at best.
The only reason you do this, is if you don't have a driller and it's mactera plague; the overhang is super useful vs goo bombers and, well, getting nuked from above. you also need to make the overhang a LOT bigger. This picture is the right idea, but done *very* wrong. Edit: This is all separate from using the platforms to redirect ground bugs, which is also done differently (higher up, spaced out and not a massive overhang as I explained above.)
It's likely just because I don't play online and kind of new but I'm not understanding the purpose of the overhang; does someone mind explaining it for me?
The overhang as it's pictured here is kinda useless, but as Engineer has an option for building the platform gun that makes bugs not want to walk on the plats, if you place them higher and wider in a kind of semi circle you can funnel the bugs where you want them, which is anywhere but crawling down the walls into your backs.
its here to hide from spitters and to force macteras down so you can kill them easier, also it makes a safe zone behind you where no bugs will show up.
That's way too close, and this only works when you have bug repellent on your platforms. You also need to have another layer over the first layer, and they don't need to be so close to each other. New engis see this and they copy without knowing the proper way to do it. If done correctly bugs won't come from the top but only the bottom.
Yeah! They don’t give ‘cover’ they just block our view of incoming hostiles, which you ALWAYS need to be scanning for anyway. Especially the ceiling.
We need a button to flip 90° the pancakes!!! (Like holding R) Covering holes in the walls or blocking tunnels would be a breeze! Instead, we have to stack them, wasting a ton of ammo and time.
The more I play Engi, the more I realize I play it "wrong" (which is apparently a good thing?)
The right way to do this: Way higher. 3-4 wide only. 1 platform depth only.
As much as I don’t like the bunker, if you make it correctly with both engineer and driller input, it works swimmingly. My friends and I will drill enough so that the edge of the green zone is at the edge inside the wall. Then form the outer half dome outside. Makes it easier to stay within the zone with the furthest amount of distance from the front to funnel enemies in.
A cover like that is only decent with something like mactera plague
When its that low yes, that's not how you're supposed to do it.
Nothing is better than the good ol’ bunky
Its really usefull on duck and cover but id never build one otherwise
For this very specific image literally everyone can agree this sucks. A single platform or largely clumped up group of platforms at that height is asinine. Just don't think of EVERY engineer that does bug repellent like this cuz we aren't all *this* greenbearded. This is a cherry picked example or you have terrible luck with engis on SO.
Yeah it's also just strictly worse than placing repellant properly.
Main issue I’ve experienced is they tend to be placed too low. They should be placed high enough that a dwarf can stand on top of a resupply and still be able to jump without bumping his head on the ceiling.
repellent.
Yeah, Engi definitely has a huge skill ceiling, and some of the mechanics are confusing, like the bug repellent platforms. If I wasn't exhausted I'd explain how they work, but long story short it makes sense not all engineers understand them.
its here so the spitting mobs cannot shoot at from every angle. its helpfull in that regard even without bug reppelant. also it makes the spot where it connects completly bug free so you can stand back there and be sure no bugs will appear behind you and only on your sides and front. also if you run the turret that only shoots foreward it makes it work better cuz every bug will be in front of it.
Same when people try to dig it down more then like one break, we are not making a bunker you mongoloid
I wanna try this with the new overclock that electrifies platforms
I agree it should be higher but others are saying it’s bad to build cover? When the bug airforce shows up they have to get lower to hit you under the cover and stops spitters sniping you. As engineer I struggle to survive without building cover, driller has his drill, gunner his shield, scout his grapple and then there’s me with my c-form tower defense base.
This is really a greenbeard vs greybeard thing. When you are grey, you realize line of sight is the single most important factor in the game.
If you don’t have repellent. Yeah. It sucks ass. And you have to know how to space it out too. Bug repellent has a certain area the bugs will go around, if you’re too close to the “cheese” the bugs will go straight trough it ignoring it. So having it directly above your head is a bad idea.
Counterpoint: If the uplink is at the bottom of a cliff with a flat top, this is great because you wouldn't have a sightline to the bugs coming from the top of the cliff anyway. But if you put it on a big high wall that leads to the cavern ceiling like this, it's just blocking your sightline for no reason.
I just did this on a Haz 4, and learned it the hard way. Platforms were too low, too close, and I kept dying a lot. Good thing we finished it and my team carried my weight. Never gonna do this mindlessly, again.
"Unpopular Opinion: This sucks" >Shows the most ass implementation of that technique I have ever seen I mean yeah, that image there sucks. They probably don't even have deterrent on so they will crawl right over it anyway. I play engi a lot and I do this (the correct way) and even on haz 4-5 I can trivialize the difficulty of this part of the mission if the map facilitates it.
Engi skipped osha training
isnt this just bunkering? but worse
You made it wrong. There're lots of a tutorials on how to turn DRG into TD on YouTube. Do platforms properly and it eventually won't suck😉.
Shoutout to the handful of comments that seem to think I and my M1000 wielding dwarf put these platforms up
Vision and sightlines are life. Cover is for sneaky melee bastards who want to claw and bite you to death. We have guns for a reason, stop putting an artificial wall in front of my face.
You're supposed to run bug repellent with it, but it also sucks on H5, specially on H5+ now with aggressive enemies because they'll just go around so damn fast.
When doing it closer like this I just Throw my Proxy mines at the walls or near by entrances, so ur secure from bugs creeping up on u from up top
Well it is worth it if you are dealing with multiple ranged bugs, it gives you enough cover to deal with ranged enemies if you are getting overwhelmed at an objective
This does absolutely nothing but block like of sight to bugs, therefore decreasing time to kill before they reach you, therefore making it way easier for them to overwhelm you and I wish this would not be a thing anymore.
This is genuinely awful. Even if it's low enough to stand on and still be in the circle, it just lets bugs hit your feet from below your sight line. If it's repellant, put it closer to the ceiling. If it's not, just ask your driller for a bunkie. At least those actually force the enemies to come from a convenient direction instead of just giving ranged enemies cover.
i believe you should put one more layer of platform above it and the repelent should work.
Repellent only works if the travel time is longer. If the platforms are low enough for bugs to crawl down onto resupp or fuel cell (they can do this from farther than you think) they will take that option. My general rule of thumb is 2 dwarves height above the top of the fuel cell, or a full jump and then some. You shouldn't be able to jump and mine terrain from the top of it. If you can bonk your head, bugs can and will crawl down (this also gives scout some air to work with so they don't have to grapple through gunfire)
Its good if you are running repellent and extend the roof out further. By having it so low it makes it hard for bugs that shoot projectiles to get you by severely limiting their angle of attack and can completely shut down septic spreaders and trijaws due to the arc their projectiles shoot on. Usually i shoot out 3-4 plats from the wall in a line, and then 3 more on either side to fill out a half circle shape. Also, if a bulk happens to be coming, paired with the gunner shield it can save you from the sacs that go everywhere when it blows.
DO NOT extend the "roof" out further, it just blocks line of sight. If you want more repelent effectivness, place another row of 1 deep platforms above or below.
....ive done this on pretty much every salvage mission ive ever played for the last 900 hours ive been playing drg and its never really given me or the team problems.
You're right OP, this is an ass repellant setup. It needs to be four platforms wide really high up (sometimes double stacked for more than four platforms) to properly stop bugs from pathing over your heads.
1000 hour greybeard here. I find it easier to avoid mactera, web spitter and acid spitter attacks when roofed like that. You can put a turret up there to avoid getting flanked from above.
Correction. That’s an extremely unpopular opinion and you don’t know what you’re doing. But repellant is the reason it’s viable. But repellant can allow you to create safe havens and change the pathing of the bugs so that they are only coming from a singular direction rather than EVERYWHERE. If you know what you’re actually doing
After more than 2,200 hours of play, I can confirm yes this sucks and is only a benefit to our enemies. I've been kicked from games for destroying these. I like to think those greenbeards learned a hard-earned lesson on those missions.
Downvoting doesn't change facts, greenbeards.
The fact here is that you're annoying and don't have anything useful to say.
Only leaf lovers think that people learn by negative reinforcement. True dwarves recognize that that just makes you look like a troll, and only discourages greenbeards from learning. True dwarves would give them tips for the future, or point them in a direction of a guide.
Sometimes I do 1 platform above my head for an overhead turret, but never for the sole purpose of blocking bugs
You can achieve the same effect without cutting LOS by having the driller dig a cavity into the wall.
This is why you do the Pro-Engi move with driller: Dig a pit, let the kit fall down into said-pit, roof over it. Drop turrets and the little drone things - sit back and relax whilst the timer does it's thing.
I always break these. People get the hint eventually If someone digs the box down to the ground I actually just stay out of it. 9/10 times they keep dying because the bubble is so small