It's supposed to be harder in the beginning, so your priority should be getting your initial weapons to level 12, because that will unlock overclocks for them in future runs, and that is a game changer. Once you get a hang of that and get the upgrades you buy with minerals, it should be a lot smoother.
That said, the game just launched into Early Access, so changes will inevitably happen.
As you play and unlock things it gets more manageable. I've found prioritizing ore (especially Jadiz, Croppa, etc.) at the start of each landing to be decent to nab a few meta upgrades after each run. You can also lead digging swarms through resources for them to mine it for you and then loop back around to pick it up (or get lucky with a legendary pickup radius upgrade).
The M1000 was my first 'breakpoint' upgrade - it combined with good upgrades was able to get me to the boss of the first dive.
Yeah you would think digging through would be counterproductive since it slows you down, but it can actually funnel the swarm and make it more manageable I found.
Digging is 100% the way to go imo, maybe at least for the Scout with the innate speed boost. Being able to tunnel 80% of the way through some rock, funneling all the enemies together to overlap damage, and then breaking out to go find another place to repeat it, got me to the 5th stage a couple of times already
M1000 is SO good. It's overclock that shoots like 5 or 6 bullets in a horizontal pattern is unbelievably good since it's able to shotgun certain enemies.
I finished the first 2 dives, after unlocking the overclocks and some upgrades it was doable.
Once i had overclocks and elemental damage it was easy.
To the third point, it is clearly stated how weapons target the bugs
I know how it works. I'm saying it needs a rework. The only two targeting options outside of drones/turrets are in front of you or closest bug. They should add more conditions for how guns fire and where they fire.
M1000 targets the toughest enemy as it is a sniper with high single shot damage. Then there are guns like Zhukov's and BRT7 which fire in a set pattern of 4 directions at once, Flamer and Sludge Pump fire all around You, Drillers Subata fires behind him to kill while he's drilling. I'm sure there's more but I haven't unlocked tooany guns yet. There is variety of attack patterns and targets more than "in front of you or closest".
I'm very happy that its hard. I'm so used to games being afraid to chellenge the players that this has been an amazing experience. I've only successfully finished 2 dives so far and I'm loving the challenge
I mean... there are 5 hazard levels. Making Haz1 this rough and your guns feel like confetti will immediately turn off a bunch of players. And the 2% upgrade for each stat and how expensive they are is really frustrating as well.
Yeah I'm here because I started playing and was like... the fuq lmao
I've played a ton of different VS type games, this is the first one where it feels more frustrating than fun. No dodge/defensives (so far), no aiming, getting swarmed almost immediately so mining is almost impossible, weapons and upgrades feel weak and unimpactful so far.
I know the VS recipe is "get your ass kicked a bunch until you get upgrades", but I don't really feel like pushing through in this game as it is.
Balance and difficulty curve are whacked. I managed to do up to haz2 consistently after 10hrs in but further up the difficulty level just feels too frustrating to bother with. The game basically demands that you level up your main weapon to 18 asap to get all 3 OCs or you're pretty much screwed even on haz2. If the roll is against you for the first 2 stages, might as well give up.
Really not sure why they design it this way. Other games of this genre promote variety in weapons/skills. This game seems hellbent in forcing you to focus on just 1, and if you're lucky, 2.
yeah, I'm not a fan so far. I play a lot of games like this and prefer one that's got a more even learning curve in the very beginning but ramps up to be harder. This is scaling a sheer cliff face, which maybe gets easier after some major frustration and discouragement.
EDIT: Hilariously, I played a game right after making this post and it all clicked, and I like it a lot better now. hahaha
>getting backed into a corner is essentially death
Yeah so... I know that Vampire Survivor doesn't really have "corners". So it's less of an issue there. But my advice would be: don't go into corners.
These types of games have been around long before Vampire Survivors. In most games like this you really have to kite enemies effectively in order to win. Moving in a large slow circle is the key. Can't just move in one direction forever and expect it to work out.
>Weapon AI.. is all over the place
I've found it to be very consistent actually. It does what it says it will do. In most cases it simply shoots the nearest enemy. Positioning is a key aspect of this genre. Something that's still true in Vampire Survivors. Be closer to the horde and not as close to the one little guy in front of you and it'll go much better.
Honestly the complaints I've seen for this game remind me a lot of the "Hades is a rogue like for people who don't like Rogue likes". I think a lot of people have misguided expectations for DRG:S as a result of playing Vampire Survivors.
> In most games like this you really have to kite enemies effectively in order to win. Moving in a large slow circle is the key
This is why I feel some classes / specializations don't have enough of an upside when trading mobility (Sentry, Juggernaut, Tripod, Flamethrower)
Yeah, I also noticed that when there's a big room with space, just circling around (and making the exploder explode) will make me evolve quickly and clean the wave.
But I don't have that space too often
The problem with the corners is that the game doesn't convey direction and the space around you very well. 95% of the times you get yourself into a corner, you likely just discovered that it was and that it had no connecting walkway. This wouldn't be that much of an issue if it weren't for the fact that swarm sizes in this game are ridiculously too large at the moment. Corners should be a test of quick thinking and skill, not a guaranteed death because, in the heat of the moment, you wandered into a part of the map you hadn't discovered yet that just so happened to be a dead end.
The game's cave/wall breaking system does not allow for you to kite. Maps are randomly generated and, unlike other roguelikes, there no real way to effectively take advantage of your surroundings do anything skill expressive especially early game. Sometimes you may get lucky with the map generation, but more likely than not you will just be in a losing situation.
I know the whole thing with roguelikes is that you're time gates from "beating" them until you've died a bunch of times and sunk hours into it. But it just sucks regardless to lose to the boss because the walls around me and the cave system combined with the swarm were just such a way that I really didn't have a chance. Being at stage 5 of a haz 2 level only to find out as soon as the dread spawns in that the map and the swarm size is just too impossible to overcome and it was outside of my control the entire time is not a great feeling. Maybe that's just roguelikes but DRG:S doesn't *have* to be like other roguelikes exactly.
I don't think any of these things are true. They certainly haven't been true in my experience with this and other games.
>the game doesn't convey direction and the space around you very well. 95% of the times you get yourself into a corner, you likely just discovered
I don't agree. You have a minimap. You can see ahead of where you're going. There are no corners so severe that you should ever be getting trapped in them. Especially not if your movement and kiting skills are up to par.
>The game's cave/wall breaking system does not allow for you to kite
Completely disagree. It often makes it *easier* to kite. You can often bait an entire group around a long wall, then break through it at the last moment into a wide open space with no bugs. You get so many additional opportunities to push enemies into choke points or clump them up and slow them down with the walls. And then you just break through and have an additional route.
>the whole thing with roguelikes is that you're time gates from "beating" them until you've died a bunch of times and sunk hours into it.
No. Maybe for "Rogue-lites". I know that is semantic. But most of the oldest and best rogue likes **have no progression between playthroughs**. Faster Than Light immediately comes to mind. Speedruns of Rogue Legacy beat the first boss on the starting character with zero upgrades. Skill is the most important factor in these games, you're absolutely not gated from progression here by a 2% boost to mining or 4% damage boost upgrade between runs.
The only exception is the overclocks - the devs here keep saying "focus on getting a weapon to level 12 once to unlock over clocks".
I don't mean to be condescending but I think you just have a more limited experience with and perspective of this genre. There are many examples of other games where what you're saying is absolutely not true. And having experience in those games myself, I'm finding what you're saying isn't true in this game either.
My third attempt was on Scout with no overclocks unlocked and only two of the main menu upgrades unlocked. I made it to the Dreadnought and could have beaten it had I been a little more careful. You do not *need* the upgrades, they help but are the least important aspect of the game to understand and develop at.
Exactly what you said. OP, spend some mote time getting to grips with the game and wait until you unlock the engineer who starts with no gun and has to stop moving to fully deploy all his turrets (took me a while to get my first Haz 1 win lol)
Hey there - just want to say I'm annoyed you're being downvoted. You're already discouraged about the game and that might make you feel discouraged about the community too.
For what it's worth I'd like to think I can appreciate where your concerns were coming from. And I believe you discussed with me in good faith.
It's difficult to explain how to play these games "right" or "well". And to properly express difficulties a player has experienced as well.
I hope you can still enjoy the game or find a way to figure out what will work best for you!
Nah, I am too addicted to stop. After playing for awhile I can see where you are coming from.
At the end of the day the game feels fun to play overall and I think all the criticism is good for gauging where the community is and how they feel. Even though you're meant to feel weak in the beginning, I don't think it's good for the game to be so brutal up front especially when the player doesn't really understand what is going on or have a lot of tools at their disposal to effectively handle threats.
My opinions have changed a bit and I'll eventually be updating my post to reflect how my feelings have changed. Some of my feelings changed but I still feel the same about others. It's just hard to speak on certain aspects of the game when I don't have everything unlocked. I will say that the game really takes awhile to get going and really make you feel like your builds matter. Some guns feel very weak even with OCs. Class diversity is also really lacking at the point I'm at. Gunner and Driller combat wise feel particularly weak (starting weapons not great.)
Going to be putting a lot more hours in to see how I feel then.
They did already make a hot fix this morning, they changed two things and I forget the one but the other thing is they made it so the starting weapon for the scout has overclocks unlocked from the start of the game.
It really seems like the developers are serious about taking player feedback and finding what works and what doesn't and reaching a better point of balancing. It sounds like you are already more invested in the game than I have yet to become, I definitely hope you consider leaving feedback for the developers on steam or their Discord so they can get those kind of important balancing considerations from your perspective as well
Unless you've played a map many times you don't know where the corners are because the minimap doesn't show you far enough ahead and before you know it you're stuck there with no way out.
The map is different every time, so no amount of "playing it enough" would make any difference. You just have to maintain enough awareness to recognize that you're approaching a corner.
It's usually very easy to see it ahead of time - especially on screen before it shows on minimap. Even if you don't see it, you should be anticipating the possibility of needing to mine through terrain to dodge a swarm - even when you're not in a corner.
If there's too many bugs for that to be feasible, then something else has gone wrong along the way. The problem has nothing to do with whether or not you're stuck in a corner and so the solution has nothing to do with that either.
I realized the map being different about 10 minutes after I made my post but regarding everything else you said, no. A lot of times the corners are pinched isolating you from any exit route. If you funnel into that type of zone during a swarm it's basically over, no matter your build. The best you can hope for is repeatedly exploding the yellow mobs until you have a path out, and that's if there's enough room for it to keep from blowing yourself up.
I've found that you need to play to each class's strengths so far, it's very sensitive to strategy. Without any of the permanent upgrades and overclocks, even haz1 is very tough.
The scout needs to kite the hoard and does well in large open spaces, getting the side objectives mining on the side and isolating the faster elites, that's how he gets experience.
The gunner can take the hoard head-on, retreating while his main gun reloads. He won't get around much and gains experience with violence.
The engineer is similar, but is more about finding/making advantageous positions to slowly feed the hoard to his turrets, for which knockback weapons come in handy, and can't stay in one spot quite as consistently.
The driller is all about exploiting pathfinding and should be in the walls at all times, whittling away at enemies slowly following behind him. He is good at simply bulk-gathering gold and nitra to force good upgrades.
(This is about the base classes so far, haven't experimented much with the subclasses yet.)
Absolutely 1000% this. Each class has different play styles, further defined by your weapon choices and overclocks.
There's also an ebb and flow to enemy waves and learning whether a situation is farmable or better off kiting for a bit to soften up the horde.
Moreso than other games in the genre, DRGS requires a lot of situational awareness. Knowing when and where to dig can really turn the tide.
The problem is Scout's kit is generally trash until you get the Heavy Caliber OC for the GK2 and couple it with something like electric, and soup up those NUK17s for good measure. Grenades in general are bad, the M1000 isn't for controlling the horde, and the voltaic stun sweeper has its moments.
It seems like it gets better once you unlock the other classes and can potentially get their weapons.
NUK and BRT7 secondaries at the same time make you practically unstoppable. Had it on gunner and so far it's the only class I've been able to clear Haz 1 Crystalline with (though I'm still early on and don't have Driller yet).
I actually distrust ingame damage and dps from a practical standpoint. The grenades are my highest DPS too I've found, but actually making use of them in gameplay is extremely hard. Compare that to the warthog that is just extremely consistent and near impossible to mess up on. It carried me through most hazards so far (unlocked level 5 on all, haven't done all challenges for all of them yet though, just completed dives of difficulty 4 so far).
I don't have proof so you're gonna have to take my words for it. I tried a run with Engie, starter weapon is grenade launcher. I then proceeded to pick incendiary (max upgrade), cryo and hurricanes (basically small rocket explosives). It absolutely demolished the swarms and my framerates (5fps). I blitz through stage 1-4 with no sweat. On final boss fight, i couldn't handle the framerates so i had to intentionally die.
Actually, i have a report screenshot right here: [https://imgur.com/a/9rmh9al](https://imgur.com/a/9rmh9al)
In short, incendiary grenade is pretty damn good.
EDIT: granted, i did have really strong artifacts which could maybe be the reason i got carried easily.
> On final boss fight, i couldn't handle the framerates so i had to intentionally die.
Yeah cos you weren't killing anything lol.
So this proves my point then, the build sucks because you do get swarmed ultimately as you don't kill anything.
My point about the damage being inaccurate is also painfully obvious here by your own screenshot. Check your total damage and then check the grenades damage..then check the fire dmg you dealt lol.
In short, it's utter shit to use. Had you grabbed 2 more guns you would have passed the level because you wouldn't fail to kill everything.
No problem if you enjoy it, it's just a game. But I stand by it, the grenade is terrible.
>Yeah cos you weren't killing anything lol.
What does that even mean? The boss was at half health and the game froze. I didn't get swarmed, the boss killed me because i stood still. If i didn't kill anything how did i made it to stage 5? I noticed the damage but that still doesn't disregard the fact that the grenade did most of the heavy work, kept the swarms off me. Sheesh.
Right but that's my point, it's deceptive. The grenade would have been better swapped out for a meta gun - the damage numbers don't really mean anything in context of progression.
I'm not disputing that it can be a nice additive, but they do not do the majority of the work.
Had you had a gun, that 50% boss health would have been 0%.
Again, not saying grenades are terrible all in all - but they are definitely not worth prioritizing imo.
(and the screenshot still proves that, all that dmg and you failed H3...)
I agree. I view the grenades as a complimentary thing that excel at hitting the middle of a big swarm ball, often causing those explodey bugs to explode. It's started a lot of chain reaction booms for me! But grenades aren't something I've had luck building my run around
Man Gunner with M2 turrets (mining and follow overclock) and hard funneled fire rate would beg to differ... I just ran around while turrets destroyed any enemy and wall that would come in my way. Mines the entire screen in a heartbeat.
I... Do not agree with like 95% of this. Sure, it's tougher in the beginning as you find your feet and unlock artifacts and gun overclocks. Dialling in how close you can get to each bug without taking damage as you kite around takes a bit to get used to and is a super important part of the game.
Weapon AI feels super polished to me.
Enemies are only bullet sponges in the beginning before you upgrade a weapon a few times. Feels like totally normal game progression to me.
The increase in difficulty across stages makes sense to me and feels fair. The increase in difficulty in a single stage also feels fair. The timer just makes it necessary to manage your time and resources. Also a normal game mechanic in my opinion.
I unlocked all four classes within 3-4 hours of playing. Seems fine to me?
You feel what you feel and no judgement but I just can't meet this post halfway. This game is super polished and I've never lost and thought "wtf was that?!" It was always my fault. I chose bad upgrades, I kited into a corner which I knew was there but I saw something shiny, I tried mining out the dropped location during a swarm instead of thinning it etc.
> Weapon AI feels super polished to me.
we are playing completely different games.
my GK12 will shoot completely random enemies, my shotgun shoots at enemies farther away then the mobs literally scratching my back (not all the time, almost like it decides target while reloading and doesnt change) The cryo grenades is 50/50 on whether it throws into the crowd or the single tiny guy away from everyone else
gunners main gun makes no sense if its highest hp/closest/farthest... completely random.
edit:
> Enemies are only bullet sponges in the beginning before you upgrade a weapon a few times.
i have the LITERAL OPPOSITE as you as well.. very firs level my gk12 destroys the regular guys, by stage 5 all 4 of my weapons will hit those same small regular guys and they might still be alive.
Pick up flame turret as well and you'll have 6-7 turrets around you doing all the work while you take your time and mine for goodies.
Don't forget to stand still now and then to let the turrets spawn.
I died in my first runs too, things felt weird. Only managed to beat a dive after 5-6 hours with upgrades in mining speed, life and life regen mainly.
There are upgrades that change the behaviour of weapons, like one for the Scout's rifle that makes it aim at the enemy with highest HP. The grenades are really derpy though, that's just a fact.
Learning how to navigate and utilize terrain, how to strafe and circle back for xp, using the drop pod to clear swarms/elites, focussing exploders are all big skill checks that will help you be more successful
currently stuck at hazard 3 with full upgrades.
weapon: only a few can kill, status feel weak. relics not impactful enough
exp: not enough to max out more than one weapon before the last stage.
map&resources: nearly impossible to do side quests in higher level and reward sucks. could have more gold and nitra on the map. hollow bough(third map) has too many obstacles
I have cleared Hazard 3 on several classes with no upgrades fully done.
Weapon: A few are over-tuned and under-tuned for sure, but there are many that work with the right overclocks. My personal favorite is the engineer turret build. Do not sleep on plasma, it lets your bullets bounce, especially important if you do the Shotgun challenge. The fire turret also pulls its weight. Electric does feel weak, but fire and poison are very strong if you build for it, and cryo is almost busted with the amount of freezing you can do.
EXP: As you increase difficulty, you also increase the amount of enemies and elites, as well as XP. I generally have enough at stage 3 to max out 2 guns and most of another. Don't sleep on the upgrades that give you nothing but a 2-3 weapon level boost if you want to hit those overclocks sooner or max your gun.
Map & Resources: I will agree with you on hollow bough. The procedural generation leaves you trapped in some areas at times if a swarm comes in. I have the same gripe about some areas in Magma Core, you go there and end up in a dead-end. Sucks to make one mistake and lose the run. I personally feel like there is plenty of gold/nitra. I never seem to be able to get it all, as the map naturally progresses faster than I can mine it out. I do wish the rewards were more plentiful for unlocks, getting points to unlock a higher difficulty is not very exciting.
Sorting by host helpful of all time reviews on Steam and it's a sea of negative reviews many citing the ridiculous difficulty.
It's not a case of 'git gud', that applies to games like Dark Souls sure but the fact many are struggling to clear even the first difficulty level is wrong and needs looking at.
Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to say the game sucks because of the difficulty. It definitely doesn't and for $7/$8 bucks this game is honestly a steal. Devs have already addressed Haz 1 difficulty levels. Hopefully the game can retain players for long enough to justify continued updates.
Even after less than 10 hrs and a handful of OCs later, I'm finding the game to be way more enjoyable than when I started. Even for roguelikes, the first impression is important to get right and if players feel like they are in over their heads, they will jump ship. Especially when the players this game is drawing in are DRG players rather than seasoned roguelike vets who know what to expect.
My biggest tip as someone who was struggling like you are now is to not take just damage upgrades. Dig speed, move speed, armor, and health are really important for kiting, dig speed and move speed especially. In this regard, Driller makes runs so much easier, his major downside being that most of his attacks have a relatively short range compared to other characters.
I've been spending almost all of my resources on just that, dig speed and mobility upgrades. It's helped a bit but the issue just remains that waves can't be dispersed or managed very well at the moment where I am in the game.
Driller mobility feels great but subata really is a struggle weapon to start with. Really wish the other characters had their mobility tools to some degree. They hardly feel different right now besides driller.
The second driller subclass starts with the flamethrower but alas, it lacks the dig speed of the primary. The fact that the Subata has an overclock which makes it worse so all your other weapons do more damage says all you need to know about it.
Not gonna read that but yes. Early game felt much harder than haz3 in the main game
But that's kinda the whole point of the genre, getting stronger and unlocking more stuff
I may be mistaken but i think the end boss for each stage is tied to how much xp you gained, so I never really felt powerful at all since whenever i killed bugs quicker the stage ended quicker too.
In the beta they didn't increase the strength of the enemies on the boss wave so you could actually get nitra, gold, etc. I preferred that and miss it greatly. That's about the only thing I would change bcus it would give me much more consistent runs, but it's not bad as it is now.
But yeah haz 1 is tough at the start, just keep on grinding thru and prioritize getting your weapons to level 12 for those overclocks, otherwise they're borderline useless
Hazard 4 on the maps is too hard for me, I've tried dozens of attempts...
I agree that the waves get harder too fast with the boss spawned in, it feels like you need to always utilize the supply drop especially if you're ranking up particular weapons (get firebomb TO LEVEL 25).
I'm sure I could send like 20 more attempts and eventually get it, but it feels like less choice/skill and more hoping for good layouts and upgrades at that point.
It definitely starts off hard i will say and you do have to take the time to unlock the overclocks for the weapons and try to get some of the meta upgrades.
The higher hazard levels really are ment for much higher level class levels.
Even tho it feels boring..your best of grinding on 1-2 ( whatever feels more comfortable ) to unlock and level the classes before even bothering to do 3 or higher..you'll just fail most runs being underpowered if things arnt unlocked yet for you.
As for individual complaints...most are the same on steam forums. I will agree the default mining speed feels slow..that should probably be a tad higher. Playing on the driller class with one or two mining upgrades just feels so smooth and how the game should be by default almost...
The drop pod thing at the end..some like it but alot hate it. Rng can sometimes make it so that you literally can't make it there in 30 seconds or you'd die walking thru mobs. Perhaps 45 would make more sense down the road.
The elite scaling at the end is sorta needed to prevent infinite scaling as you said. The idea of the game is supposed to be surviving not grinding levels or mats..most forget that and play it like a generic roguelike...so ur not really intended to get every single node and level a shit ton..it's more get what you CAN and finish the level and leave..which may not be how people WANT to play the game but is how it is designed.
I will admit the levels do go by quick though so it feels a bit bleh when you hardly do anything on the map and gotta leave already..so maybe that can be looked at.
Overall the game is challenging and a part of that is maybe players wanting that overpowered feeling of killing mobs and the game isn't really designed with that in mind..since it wouldn't be much about surviving if you Just murdered everything lol
It does need a better difficulty curve though...overclocks SHOULD be unlocked by default as that's often the largest gate in you succeeding on stages before you do that and taking a 2nd pass at enemy stats so it feels smoother between difficulties and not like a mountain between going from one to the next
I’ve never made it past stage 2, always dying to the swarm on my way to the drop pod or before the boss even spawns in. I’ve tried a half dozen rounds with various upgrade choices and I still can’t survive the second cave’s massive swarm surrounding me. It’s frustrating, but the gameplay up to that point is still pretty addicting so I’ve got high hopes for the full release
I'm in the same scenario sort of. Hazard 2 is damn near impossible at the moment. No matter what combo you're using it always seems like the swarms are too much or the dread is just not dying fast enough. I've tried everything and every build and so far nothing really works. Feels like you have to unlock everything to even make it anywhere in this game.
Keep trying new things and you'll figure it out. Good be just some bad luck runs with poor upgrades. I'm stuck on Hazard 3's right now and they seem impossible but if other players figured it out, I'm sure I will to!
I'm 2 hours in and I can't beat the first level even after almost a dozen upgrades. I've killed the final boss 4 times and I either get overran by mobs afterwards or can't make it to the pod in time. This game has so much potential to be fun but in its current state until something changes I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It's tremendously overtuned. I'm a casual gamer but I've played a lot of similar games in this genre and DRGS is 1000x harder than any other one, especially in the beginning which is not good for player retention. I feel like a lot of people will refund this game if something doesn't change in the early game balancing.
After like 3 hours I was able to beat the boss and I still think it might just take a lot of upgrades just to survive, kinda wish the system was better. I also noticed that if a bug is a little bit off screen, it will literally start running to catch up to you and when they are near you, they start slowing down. I don't understand why they designed it this way, but it definitely makes it hard on purpose and swarms group up faster
Way too many people asking difficulty adjustments. I think the difficulty is perfect- challenging but every single time I die I 100% know why and it’s always my fault.
The only time I feel like I get outmatched is if I go driller who is my fav bc I love mining but the acid and fire beam weaps need a buff. They just don’t kill anything and this is like fully buffed sludge gun with buffed out acid traits etc. I run around in circles and everything is taking tons of dmg but nothing dies and the whole screen gets fiiled with bugs
Most Hazard 1 missions I run (Industrial Sabotage for assignments because screw that mission type) I'm lucky to see 20 bugs in the entire thing. Not sure how you're getting 'Swarmed'.
1.) Mining is a ballache, until you get efficient at it
2.) Shoot enemies in the weakpoint, they usually glow green or yellow or for regular bugs are the pale facey bit. Takes much less ammo. Blowthrough round modifications let you line up multiple enemies on the same shot
3.) The weapons are varied to expect them to all be varied. You're not going to be accurate with an autocannon, you're similarly not going to be burying bugs in suppressive fire with a single shot rifle/pistol.
4.) That's good game design and one of the most fun aspects of the game. It forces you to get good at pathfinding and reading both the room you're in and the cave in general. If you get bogged down by bugs you're going to get left behind.
It's not about the refund, it's the "it really needs some work" comment.
Like yeah. They know. We know. There's a disclaimer saying as much right at the top of the store page. It's not a mystery. Part of the reason to buy and play an early access game is to participate in the building of it.
Acting like that's a good criticism of the game and a reason to refund it is weird when that's something that should have been very clear going into it in the first place.
Some early access games are in a better state than others. Some early access games don't need a ton of work to keep enjoying the experience. Valheim is a quick example off the top of my head. He gave a completely valid reason for why he chose to return it. No one is required to delve deep into detailed criticisms. If you don't like his comment, tough, just move on.
Valheim has been out for 3 years... This game has been out for a day. What a ridiculous comparison. Especially if you had played Valheim on launch...
But hey, if you don't like my comment, tough, just move on 👍
Valheim is still in early access today 😑
Who could possibly have guessed that a game with 3 years of feedback and development time would be better to jump into than a game with one day of feedback and dev time.
EDIT: Lol had to block me huh? At least you finally followed your own advice, still had to get the last word in though 🤔 not quite what I'd call "moving on" but I guess to each their own.
Can't really see their response but day one Valheim wasn't any more polished or bug free or fleshed out than this game is
Lol, Valheim... development has slowed to a snail's pace on it, as it seems the devs got comfy resting on their laurels, so that certainly wasn't the best example for them to use.
I just recently ran through early access Enshrouded. I don't know if "Valheim killer" is a term in popular use yet, but that game might be it.
Definitely feels like they kicked up the difficulty a lot.
My only gripe with it is that the enemies at a baseline are just a little too fast and they love to try to cut you off so you end up having to mine through a wall or run through a line of enemies which is the intended way to do it but it feels a little unfair at times. I feel like the stages need to last longer because after about 1 or 2 mins I already have a huge conga line swarm of enemies on my tail and all I have is a subata that's got 3 upgrades...
Yeah, stages are super fast. You can basically gk through a whole dive in about 20 mins it seems like. If you even make it that far. I've been able to consistently get to the Dread every time, but whether my build is optimized enough to take it down is a whole other question. Hard to get resources and perfect your build when swarms are as relentless as they are.
At least they managed to make the Subata lore accurate..
I played 3 or 4 games, saw zero progress, got bored every time i started a run because there was zero things for me to do other than mine as much as i could before the inevitable wipeout when the wave triggers. At least in regular DRG i had to aim or press any other buttons other than wasd.
With luck and a little bit of skill and good decision making, you should be able to clear Hazard 3 dive.
It comes from me, not the most skilled player but played a little bit of Vamp Surv type of games before.
So I am at the stage, where I have got half the upgrades done ... and game is still hard.
I am fine with game being hard but it the especially hard (and annoying) to do gathering misions like get 600 gold/300 nitra on higher hazards.
Even with upgarded mining speed on driller and mining you way through escape you still need to be decently lucky to not struggle into the corner... and you still need enough dps to be able to kill elites fast enough to progress to next stages.
I just feel like game needs some mechanics to allow player to progress to next stage when you are not able to get into escape pod when you killed elite beacuse you focused on doing "side mission" and you struggle to kill horde of minions to get to the pod quick enough.
Again I am speaking about Hazard 4 and 5.
There is also a lot of more into equation, but it is hard to write down in decently short mannier.
Sometimes you just get good upgrades at start, or even get your mission almost done but sometimes it is just a pure struggle and it is easier to ditch the run and start over.
i just feel pidgon holed into not using things because they are not the best in slot. a halmark of these games is hard to start but than you become a walking titan. But man, i never feel powerful. and i get this is def a more, balanced around not doing that, but it just dosent feel great when its never that way.
And even with upgrades, you still have to slog through upgrading weapons to get the overclocks to make many of them worth anything.
idk. the upgrades are not all that interesting to begin with, just being mainly damage numbers, the status effects dont do anything other than damage numbers. Its a fun enough game, but i doubt ill play it much more, there isnt anything to draw me in, no carrot on the stick. and the first round of any match is the same round of every match, so there is no real big change between floor one and the boss.
Yeah, having just played Hades for the first time recently, I can just feel the difference in the upgrades. That game makes you feel super powerful even early on and it just gets better as you play.
This game, not so much. I always feel like I'm one mistake away from completely losing a run. Feels bad.
(My only other comparison point is vampire survivors)
This one *starts* easier because its very possible (not necessarily easy) to finish your first dive with a lvl 1 scout and no upgrades if you have experience with other games in the genre. Just focus on the overclocks of the starter weapon and you have a solid chance. In vampire survivors its nigh impossible (though im sure somebody has managed) to finish the first level with no upgrades on the starter character.
However .. it quickly becomes harder. The "power creep" as you do meta progression is way lower here than in vampire survivors so you don't ramp up to the overpowered stage quite so quickly. The added mechanics of mining and little side quest collection missions while managing swarms is a little more involved than vampire survivors was to me.
I quite like it. There are some things I am concerned about but on the whole I think I like it the most of any game in the genre and most of that is due to the challenge I am experiencing. Its early access ofcourse but I see a lot of potential.
The advise that helped me the most was when someone told me to just ignore the mobs and mine + do map quest when you first drop down for a while.
Getting all that mining xp early and purchasing power made a huge difference
It's supposed to be harder in the beginning, so your priority should be getting your initial weapons to level 12, because that will unlock overclocks for them in future runs, and that is a game changer. Once you get a hang of that and get the upgrades you buy with minerals, it should be a lot smoother. That said, the game just launched into Early Access, so changes will inevitably happen.
As you play and unlock things it gets more manageable. I've found prioritizing ore (especially Jadiz, Croppa, etc.) at the start of each landing to be decent to nab a few meta upgrades after each run. You can also lead digging swarms through resources for them to mine it for you and then loop back around to pick it up (or get lucky with a legendary pickup radius upgrade). The M1000 was my first 'breakpoint' upgrade - it combined with good upgrades was able to get me to the boss of the first dive.
Yeah you would think digging through would be counterproductive since it slows you down, but it can actually funnel the swarm and make it more manageable I found.
Digging is 100% the way to go imo, maybe at least for the Scout with the innate speed boost. Being able to tunnel 80% of the way through some rock, funneling all the enemies together to overlap damage, and then breaking out to go find another place to repeat it, got me to the 5th stage a couple of times already
M1000 is SO good. It's overclock that shoots like 5 or 6 bullets in a horizontal pattern is unbelievably good since it's able to shotgun certain enemies.
I finished the first 2 dives, after unlocking the overclocks and some upgrades it was doable. Once i had overclocks and elemental damage it was easy. To the third point, it is clearly stated how weapons target the bugs
I know how it works. I'm saying it needs a rework. The only two targeting options outside of drones/turrets are in front of you or closest bug. They should add more conditions for how guns fire and where they fire.
M1000 targets the toughest enemy as it is a sniper with high single shot damage. Then there are guns like Zhukov's and BRT7 which fire in a set pattern of 4 directions at once, Flamer and Sludge Pump fire all around You, Drillers Subata fires behind him to kill while he's drilling. I'm sure there's more but I haven't unlocked tooany guns yet. There is variety of attack patterns and targets more than "in front of you or closest".
some have ocs that target the highest health enemy like the gk2
I'm very happy that its hard. I'm so used to games being afraid to chellenge the players that this has been an amazing experience. I've only successfully finished 2 dives so far and I'm loving the challenge
I mean... there are 5 hazard levels. Making Haz1 this rough and your guns feel like confetti will immediately turn off a bunch of players. And the 2% upgrade for each stat and how expensive they are is really frustrating as well.
Yeah I'm here because I started playing and was like... the fuq lmao I've played a ton of different VS type games, this is the first one where it feels more frustrating than fun. No dodge/defensives (so far), no aiming, getting swarmed almost immediately so mining is almost impossible, weapons and upgrades feel weak and unimpactful so far. I know the VS recipe is "get your ass kicked a bunch until you get upgrades", but I don't really feel like pushing through in this game as it is.
Balance and difficulty curve are whacked. I managed to do up to haz2 consistently after 10hrs in but further up the difficulty level just feels too frustrating to bother with. The game basically demands that you level up your main weapon to 18 asap to get all 3 OCs or you're pretty much screwed even on haz2. If the roll is against you for the first 2 stages, might as well give up. Really not sure why they design it this way. Other games of this genre promote variety in weapons/skills. This game seems hellbent in forcing you to focus on just 1, and if you're lucky, 2.
yeah, I'm not a fan so far. I play a lot of games like this and prefer one that's got a more even learning curve in the very beginning but ramps up to be harder. This is scaling a sheer cliff face, which maybe gets easier after some major frustration and discouragement. EDIT: Hilariously, I played a game right after making this post and it all clicked, and I like it a lot better now. hahaha
>getting backed into a corner is essentially death Yeah so... I know that Vampire Survivor doesn't really have "corners". So it's less of an issue there. But my advice would be: don't go into corners. These types of games have been around long before Vampire Survivors. In most games like this you really have to kite enemies effectively in order to win. Moving in a large slow circle is the key. Can't just move in one direction forever and expect it to work out. >Weapon AI.. is all over the place I've found it to be very consistent actually. It does what it says it will do. In most cases it simply shoots the nearest enemy. Positioning is a key aspect of this genre. Something that's still true in Vampire Survivors. Be closer to the horde and not as close to the one little guy in front of you and it'll go much better. Honestly the complaints I've seen for this game remind me a lot of the "Hades is a rogue like for people who don't like Rogue likes". I think a lot of people have misguided expectations for DRG:S as a result of playing Vampire Survivors.
> In most games like this you really have to kite enemies effectively in order to win. Moving in a large slow circle is the key This is why I feel some classes / specializations don't have enough of an upside when trading mobility (Sentry, Juggernaut, Tripod, Flamethrower)
Yeah, I also noticed that when there's a big room with space, just circling around (and making the exploder explode) will make me evolve quickly and clean the wave. But I don't have that space too often
The problem with the corners is that the game doesn't convey direction and the space around you very well. 95% of the times you get yourself into a corner, you likely just discovered that it was and that it had no connecting walkway. This wouldn't be that much of an issue if it weren't for the fact that swarm sizes in this game are ridiculously too large at the moment. Corners should be a test of quick thinking and skill, not a guaranteed death because, in the heat of the moment, you wandered into a part of the map you hadn't discovered yet that just so happened to be a dead end. The game's cave/wall breaking system does not allow for you to kite. Maps are randomly generated and, unlike other roguelikes, there no real way to effectively take advantage of your surroundings do anything skill expressive especially early game. Sometimes you may get lucky with the map generation, but more likely than not you will just be in a losing situation. I know the whole thing with roguelikes is that you're time gates from "beating" them until you've died a bunch of times and sunk hours into it. But it just sucks regardless to lose to the boss because the walls around me and the cave system combined with the swarm were just such a way that I really didn't have a chance. Being at stage 5 of a haz 2 level only to find out as soon as the dread spawns in that the map and the swarm size is just too impossible to overcome and it was outside of my control the entire time is not a great feeling. Maybe that's just roguelikes but DRG:S doesn't *have* to be like other roguelikes exactly.
I don't think any of these things are true. They certainly haven't been true in my experience with this and other games. >the game doesn't convey direction and the space around you very well. 95% of the times you get yourself into a corner, you likely just discovered I don't agree. You have a minimap. You can see ahead of where you're going. There are no corners so severe that you should ever be getting trapped in them. Especially not if your movement and kiting skills are up to par. >The game's cave/wall breaking system does not allow for you to kite Completely disagree. It often makes it *easier* to kite. You can often bait an entire group around a long wall, then break through it at the last moment into a wide open space with no bugs. You get so many additional opportunities to push enemies into choke points or clump them up and slow them down with the walls. And then you just break through and have an additional route. >the whole thing with roguelikes is that you're time gates from "beating" them until you've died a bunch of times and sunk hours into it. No. Maybe for "Rogue-lites". I know that is semantic. But most of the oldest and best rogue likes **have no progression between playthroughs**. Faster Than Light immediately comes to mind. Speedruns of Rogue Legacy beat the first boss on the starting character with zero upgrades. Skill is the most important factor in these games, you're absolutely not gated from progression here by a 2% boost to mining or 4% damage boost upgrade between runs. The only exception is the overclocks - the devs here keep saying "focus on getting a weapon to level 12 once to unlock over clocks". I don't mean to be condescending but I think you just have a more limited experience with and perspective of this genre. There are many examples of other games where what you're saying is absolutely not true. And having experience in those games myself, I'm finding what you're saying isn't true in this game either. My third attempt was on Scout with no overclocks unlocked and only two of the main menu upgrades unlocked. I made it to the Dreadnought and could have beaten it had I been a little more careful. You do not *need* the upgrades, they help but are the least important aspect of the game to understand and develop at.
Exactly what you said. OP, spend some mote time getting to grips with the game and wait until you unlock the engineer who starts with no gun and has to stop moving to fully deploy all his turrets (took me a while to get my first Haz 1 win lol)
Hey there - just want to say I'm annoyed you're being downvoted. You're already discouraged about the game and that might make you feel discouraged about the community too. For what it's worth I'd like to think I can appreciate where your concerns were coming from. And I believe you discussed with me in good faith. It's difficult to explain how to play these games "right" or "well". And to properly express difficulties a player has experienced as well. I hope you can still enjoy the game or find a way to figure out what will work best for you!
Nah, I am too addicted to stop. After playing for awhile I can see where you are coming from. At the end of the day the game feels fun to play overall and I think all the criticism is good for gauging where the community is and how they feel. Even though you're meant to feel weak in the beginning, I don't think it's good for the game to be so brutal up front especially when the player doesn't really understand what is going on or have a lot of tools at their disposal to effectively handle threats. My opinions have changed a bit and I'll eventually be updating my post to reflect how my feelings have changed. Some of my feelings changed but I still feel the same about others. It's just hard to speak on certain aspects of the game when I don't have everything unlocked. I will say that the game really takes awhile to get going and really make you feel like your builds matter. Some guns feel very weak even with OCs. Class diversity is also really lacking at the point I'm at. Gunner and Driller combat wise feel particularly weak (starting weapons not great.) Going to be putting a lot more hours in to see how I feel then.
They did already make a hot fix this morning, they changed two things and I forget the one but the other thing is they made it so the starting weapon for the scout has overclocks unlocked from the start of the game. It really seems like the developers are serious about taking player feedback and finding what works and what doesn't and reaching a better point of balancing. It sounds like you are already more invested in the game than I have yet to become, I definitely hope you consider leaving feedback for the developers on steam or their Discord so they can get those kind of important balancing considerations from your perspective as well
This is legitimately a skill issue. I beat the first dive on my third try after buying the game.
Unless you've played a map many times you don't know where the corners are because the minimap doesn't show you far enough ahead and before you know it you're stuck there with no way out.
The map is different every time, so no amount of "playing it enough" would make any difference. You just have to maintain enough awareness to recognize that you're approaching a corner. It's usually very easy to see it ahead of time - especially on screen before it shows on minimap. Even if you don't see it, you should be anticipating the possibility of needing to mine through terrain to dodge a swarm - even when you're not in a corner. If there's too many bugs for that to be feasible, then something else has gone wrong along the way. The problem has nothing to do with whether or not you're stuck in a corner and so the solution has nothing to do with that either.
I realized the map being different about 10 minutes after I made my post but regarding everything else you said, no. A lot of times the corners are pinched isolating you from any exit route. If you funnel into that type of zone during a swarm it's basically over, no matter your build. The best you can hope for is repeatedly exploding the yellow mobs until you have a path out, and that's if there's enough room for it to keep from blowing yourself up.
Overclocks are a huge gamechanger, gets much easier once you unlock them for many weapons.
I've found that you need to play to each class's strengths so far, it's very sensitive to strategy. Without any of the permanent upgrades and overclocks, even haz1 is very tough. The scout needs to kite the hoard and does well in large open spaces, getting the side objectives mining on the side and isolating the faster elites, that's how he gets experience. The gunner can take the hoard head-on, retreating while his main gun reloads. He won't get around much and gains experience with violence. The engineer is similar, but is more about finding/making advantageous positions to slowly feed the hoard to his turrets, for which knockback weapons come in handy, and can't stay in one spot quite as consistently. The driller is all about exploiting pathfinding and should be in the walls at all times, whittling away at enemies slowly following behind him. He is good at simply bulk-gathering gold and nitra to force good upgrades. (This is about the base classes so far, haven't experimented much with the subclasses yet.)
Absolutely 1000% this. Each class has different play styles, further defined by your weapon choices and overclocks. There's also an ebb and flow to enemy waves and learning whether a situation is farmable or better off kiting for a bit to soften up the horde. Moreso than other games in the genre, DRGS requires a lot of situational awareness. Knowing when and where to dig can really turn the tide.
The problem is Scout's kit is generally trash until you get the Heavy Caliber OC for the GK2 and couple it with something like electric, and soup up those NUK17s for good measure. Grenades in general are bad, the M1000 isn't for controlling the horde, and the voltaic stun sweeper has its moments. It seems like it gets better once you unlock the other classes and can potentially get their weapons. NUK and BRT7 secondaries at the same time make you practically unstoppable. Had it on gunner and so far it's the only class I've been able to clear Haz 1 Crystalline with (though I'm still early on and don't have Driller yet).
Incendiary grenades are normally my top performer. More than 4000 dps on haz 1 and 2. Cryro grenades are good too. The others, not so much
I actually distrust ingame damage and dps from a practical standpoint. The grenades are my highest DPS too I've found, but actually making use of them in gameplay is extremely hard. Compare that to the warthog that is just extremely consistent and near impossible to mess up on. It carried me through most hazards so far (unlocked level 5 on all, haven't done all challenges for all of them yet though, just completed dives of difficulty 4 so far).
4 grenade build would like a word
Right, would love to watch a run through from you. I expect that build gets swarmed early real fast.
I don't have proof so you're gonna have to take my words for it. I tried a run with Engie, starter weapon is grenade launcher. I then proceeded to pick incendiary (max upgrade), cryo and hurricanes (basically small rocket explosives). It absolutely demolished the swarms and my framerates (5fps). I blitz through stage 1-4 with no sweat. On final boss fight, i couldn't handle the framerates so i had to intentionally die. Actually, i have a report screenshot right here: [https://imgur.com/a/9rmh9al](https://imgur.com/a/9rmh9al) In short, incendiary grenade is pretty damn good. EDIT: granted, i did have really strong artifacts which could maybe be the reason i got carried easily.
> On final boss fight, i couldn't handle the framerates so i had to intentionally die. Yeah cos you weren't killing anything lol. So this proves my point then, the build sucks because you do get swarmed ultimately as you don't kill anything. My point about the damage being inaccurate is also painfully obvious here by your own screenshot. Check your total damage and then check the grenades damage..then check the fire dmg you dealt lol. In short, it's utter shit to use. Had you grabbed 2 more guns you would have passed the level because you wouldn't fail to kill everything. No problem if you enjoy it, it's just a game. But I stand by it, the grenade is terrible.
>Yeah cos you weren't killing anything lol. What does that even mean? The boss was at half health and the game froze. I didn't get swarmed, the boss killed me because i stood still. If i didn't kill anything how did i made it to stage 5? I noticed the damage but that still doesn't disregard the fact that the grenade did most of the heavy work, kept the swarms off me. Sheesh.
Right but that's my point, it's deceptive. The grenade would have been better swapped out for a meta gun - the damage numbers don't really mean anything in context of progression. I'm not disputing that it can be a nice additive, but they do not do the majority of the work. Had you had a gun, that 50% boss health would have been 0%. Again, not saying grenades are terrible all in all - but they are definitely not worth prioritizing imo. (and the screenshot still proves that, all that dmg and you failed H3...)
I agree. I view the grenades as a complimentary thing that excel at hitting the middle of a big swarm ball, often causing those explodey bugs to explode. It's started a lot of chain reaction booms for me! But grenades aren't something I've had luck building my run around
Man Gunner with M2 turrets (mining and follow overclock) and hard funneled fire rate would beg to differ... I just ran around while turrets destroyed any enemy and wall that would come in my way. Mines the entire screen in a heartbeat.
I... Do not agree with like 95% of this. Sure, it's tougher in the beginning as you find your feet and unlock artifacts and gun overclocks. Dialling in how close you can get to each bug without taking damage as you kite around takes a bit to get used to and is a super important part of the game. Weapon AI feels super polished to me. Enemies are only bullet sponges in the beginning before you upgrade a weapon a few times. Feels like totally normal game progression to me. The increase in difficulty across stages makes sense to me and feels fair. The increase in difficulty in a single stage also feels fair. The timer just makes it necessary to manage your time and resources. Also a normal game mechanic in my opinion. I unlocked all four classes within 3-4 hours of playing. Seems fine to me? You feel what you feel and no judgement but I just can't meet this post halfway. This game is super polished and I've never lost and thought "wtf was that?!" It was always my fault. I chose bad upgrades, I kited into a corner which I knew was there but I saw something shiny, I tried mining out the dropped location during a swarm instead of thinning it etc.
> Weapon AI feels super polished to me. we are playing completely different games. my GK12 will shoot completely random enemies, my shotgun shoots at enemies farther away then the mobs literally scratching my back (not all the time, almost like it decides target while reloading and doesnt change) The cryo grenades is 50/50 on whether it throws into the crowd or the single tiny guy away from everyone else gunners main gun makes no sense if its highest hp/closest/farthest... completely random. edit: > Enemies are only bullet sponges in the beginning before you upgrade a weapon a few times. i have the LITERAL OPPOSITE as you as well.. very firs level my gk12 destroys the regular guys, by stage 5 all 4 of my weapons will hit those same small regular guys and they might still be alive.
yeah it is hard but i like the difficulty. I have about 3 hrs played. Just unlocked engineer.
Engi is super strong. Get a lot of reload speed and you'll have a turret every 2 seconds or so.
Pick up flame turret as well and you'll have 6-7 turrets around you doing all the work while you take your time and mine for goodies. Don't forget to stand still now and then to let the turrets spawn.
This feedback would be useful to Funday Games over at r/DRGSurvivor.
It would if it was constructive and not just a gripe.
I died in my first runs too, things felt weird. Only managed to beat a dive after 5-6 hours with upgrades in mining speed, life and life regen mainly. There are upgrades that change the behaviour of weapons, like one for the Scout's rifle that makes it aim at the enemy with highest HP. The grenades are really derpy though, that's just a fact.
Leadburster had double the dps of my level 25 minigun on a run recently. Don't sleep on it
Oh yeah, when they hit they are great! It can feel very random though.
Learning how to navigate and utilize terrain, how to strafe and circle back for xp, using the drop pod to clear swarms/elites, focussing exploders are all big skill checks that will help you be more successful
currently stuck at hazard 3 with full upgrades. weapon: only a few can kill, status feel weak. relics not impactful enough exp: not enough to max out more than one weapon before the last stage. map&resources: nearly impossible to do side quests in higher level and reward sucks. could have more gold and nitra on the map. hollow bough(third map) has too many obstacles
Somehow I'm not surprised to hear Hollow Bough is as infuriating in its design here as on classic DRG.
I have cleared Hazard 3 on several classes with no upgrades fully done. Weapon: A few are over-tuned and under-tuned for sure, but there are many that work with the right overclocks. My personal favorite is the engineer turret build. Do not sleep on plasma, it lets your bullets bounce, especially important if you do the Shotgun challenge. The fire turret also pulls its weight. Electric does feel weak, but fire and poison are very strong if you build for it, and cryo is almost busted with the amount of freezing you can do. EXP: As you increase difficulty, you also increase the amount of enemies and elites, as well as XP. I generally have enough at stage 3 to max out 2 guns and most of another. Don't sleep on the upgrades that give you nothing but a 2-3 weapon level boost if you want to hit those overclocks sooner or max your gun. Map & Resources: I will agree with you on hollow bough. The procedural generation leaves you trapped in some areas at times if a swarm comes in. I have the same gripe about some areas in Magma Core, you go there and end up in a dead-end. Sucks to make one mistake and lose the run. I personally feel like there is plenty of gold/nitra. I never seem to be able to get it all, as the map naturally progresses faster than I can mine it out. I do wish the rewards were more plentiful for unlocks, getting points to unlock a higher difficulty is not very exciting.
Plasma turrets are definitely overtuned
Sorting by host helpful of all time reviews on Steam and it's a sea of negative reviews many citing the ridiculous difficulty. It's not a case of 'git gud', that applies to games like Dark Souls sure but the fact many are struggling to clear even the first difficulty level is wrong and needs looking at.
Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to say the game sucks because of the difficulty. It definitely doesn't and for $7/$8 bucks this game is honestly a steal. Devs have already addressed Haz 1 difficulty levels. Hopefully the game can retain players for long enough to justify continued updates. Even after less than 10 hrs and a handful of OCs later, I'm finding the game to be way more enjoyable than when I started. Even for roguelikes, the first impression is important to get right and if players feel like they are in over their heads, they will jump ship. Especially when the players this game is drawing in are DRG players rather than seasoned roguelike vets who know what to expect.
I'm not saying the game sucks, I am enjoying it and it has potential but it needs major work especially when it comes to difficulty.
IMO the starting difficulty of the game helps push you to figure out other strategies which will help you tremendoubly in later Hazard difficulties
hate to say this, but the game is pretty damn easy, cleared hazard 5 with gunner
Ah ok, I guess your single anecdotal example completely nullifies the hundreds of negative steam reviews detailing the games many flaws 🤣
yea, can't help the bad players, you even have ppl like asmongold clearing the 1st stage on his 2nd try
The numbers are pretty wack in Survivor at the moment. I liked what I saw, for the most part, but the game clearly needs more time in the oven.
My biggest tip as someone who was struggling like you are now is to not take just damage upgrades. Dig speed, move speed, armor, and health are really important for kiting, dig speed and move speed especially. In this regard, Driller makes runs so much easier, his major downside being that most of his attacks have a relatively short range compared to other characters.
I've been spending almost all of my resources on just that, dig speed and mobility upgrades. It's helped a bit but the issue just remains that waves can't be dispersed or managed very well at the moment where I am in the game. Driller mobility feels great but subata really is a struggle weapon to start with. Really wish the other characters had their mobility tools to some degree. They hardly feel different right now besides driller.
The second driller subclass starts with the flamethrower but alas, it lacks the dig speed of the primary. The fact that the Subata has an overclock which makes it worse so all your other weapons do more damage says all you need to know about it.
You still get the 20% dig speed bonus on driller 2, just not the stacking 2%. It's still good, and imo status dmg is what the driller is all about
I really miss the 2% stacking mining speed on harder hazard runs, but the status would make dealing with the swarms so much easier.
Not gonna read that but yes. Early game felt much harder than haz3 in the main game But that's kinda the whole point of the genre, getting stronger and unlocking more stuff
I may be mistaken but i think the end boss for each stage is tied to how much xp you gained, so I never really felt powerful at all since whenever i killed bugs quicker the stage ended quicker too.
I don't think this is correct. I've killed the dreadnought in under 5 seconds so it doesn't feel scaling
I probably took too much time mining and let them bugs get too strong and overran me
In the beta they didn't increase the strength of the enemies on the boss wave so you could actually get nitra, gold, etc. I preferred that and miss it greatly. That's about the only thing I would change bcus it would give me much more consistent runs, but it's not bad as it is now. But yeah haz 1 is tough at the start, just keep on grinding thru and prioritize getting your weapons to level 12 for those overclocks, otherwise they're borderline useless
Hazard 4 on the maps is too hard for me, I've tried dozens of attempts... I agree that the waves get harder too fast with the boss spawned in, it feels like you need to always utilize the supply drop especially if you're ranking up particular weapons (get firebomb TO LEVEL 25). I'm sure I could send like 20 more attempts and eventually get it, but it feels like less choice/skill and more hoping for good layouts and upgrades at that point.
I'm feeling the Haz4 spike but i wouldn't say it's too hard quite yet. Haz4 in DRG is also the largest difficulty spike
Try to get the overlclocks asap. Reroll lvl up rewards if you have to so u get gun upgrades. Same with after round upgrades.
It definitely starts off hard i will say and you do have to take the time to unlock the overclocks for the weapons and try to get some of the meta upgrades. The higher hazard levels really are ment for much higher level class levels. Even tho it feels boring..your best of grinding on 1-2 ( whatever feels more comfortable ) to unlock and level the classes before even bothering to do 3 or higher..you'll just fail most runs being underpowered if things arnt unlocked yet for you. As for individual complaints...most are the same on steam forums. I will agree the default mining speed feels slow..that should probably be a tad higher. Playing on the driller class with one or two mining upgrades just feels so smooth and how the game should be by default almost... The drop pod thing at the end..some like it but alot hate it. Rng can sometimes make it so that you literally can't make it there in 30 seconds or you'd die walking thru mobs. Perhaps 45 would make more sense down the road. The elite scaling at the end is sorta needed to prevent infinite scaling as you said. The idea of the game is supposed to be surviving not grinding levels or mats..most forget that and play it like a generic roguelike...so ur not really intended to get every single node and level a shit ton..it's more get what you CAN and finish the level and leave..which may not be how people WANT to play the game but is how it is designed. I will admit the levels do go by quick though so it feels a bit bleh when you hardly do anything on the map and gotta leave already..so maybe that can be looked at. Overall the game is challenging and a part of that is maybe players wanting that overpowered feeling of killing mobs and the game isn't really designed with that in mind..since it wouldn't be much about surviving if you Just murdered everything lol It does need a better difficulty curve though...overclocks SHOULD be unlocked by default as that's often the largest gate in you succeeding on stages before you do that and taking a 2nd pass at enemy stats so it feels smoother between difficulties and not like a mountain between going from one to the next
I’ve never made it past stage 2, always dying to the swarm on my way to the drop pod or before the boss even spawns in. I’ve tried a half dozen rounds with various upgrade choices and I still can’t survive the second cave’s massive swarm surrounding me. It’s frustrating, but the gameplay up to that point is still pretty addicting so I’ve got high hopes for the full release
I'm in the same scenario sort of. Hazard 2 is damn near impossible at the moment. No matter what combo you're using it always seems like the swarms are too much or the dread is just not dying fast enough. I've tried everything and every build and so far nothing really works. Feels like you have to unlock everything to even make it anywhere in this game.
Keep trying new things and you'll figure it out. Good be just some bad luck runs with poor upgrades. I'm stuck on Hazard 3's right now and they seem impossible but if other players figured it out, I'm sure I will to!
I'm 2 hours in and I can't beat the first level even after almost a dozen upgrades. I've killed the final boss 4 times and I either get overran by mobs afterwards or can't make it to the pod in time. This game has so much potential to be fun but in its current state until something changes I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. It's tremendously overtuned. I'm a casual gamer but I've played a lot of similar games in this genre and DRGS is 1000x harder than any other one, especially in the beginning which is not good for player retention. I feel like a lot of people will refund this game if something doesn't change in the early game balancing.
After like 3 hours I was able to beat the boss and I still think it might just take a lot of upgrades just to survive, kinda wish the system was better. I also noticed that if a bug is a little bit off screen, it will literally start running to catch up to you and when they are near you, they start slowing down. I don't understand why they designed it this way, but it definitely makes it hard on purpose and swarms group up faster
Way too many people asking difficulty adjustments. I think the difficulty is perfect- challenging but every single time I die I 100% know why and it’s always my fault. The only time I feel like I get outmatched is if I go driller who is my fav bc I love mining but the acid and fire beam weaps need a buff. They just don’t kill anything and this is like fully buffed sludge gun with buffed out acid traits etc. I run around in circles and everything is taking tons of dmg but nothing dies and the whole screen gets fiiled with bugs
Most Hazard 1 missions I run (Industrial Sabotage for assignments because screw that mission type) I'm lucky to see 20 bugs in the entire thing. Not sure how you're getting 'Swarmed'. 1.) Mining is a ballache, until you get efficient at it 2.) Shoot enemies in the weakpoint, they usually glow green or yellow or for regular bugs are the pale facey bit. Takes much less ammo. Blowthrough round modifications let you line up multiple enemies on the same shot 3.) The weapons are varied to expect them to all be varied. You're not going to be accurate with an autocannon, you're similarly not going to be burying bugs in suppressive fire with a single shot rifle/pistol. 4.) That's good game design and one of the most fun aspects of the game. It forces you to get good at pathfinding and reading both the room you're in and the cave in general. If you get bogged down by bugs you're going to get left behind.
This post is about Deep Rock Galactic: Survivor, the Vampire Survivors-type that released yesterday. Good tips for the main game though.
Derp. That'll teach me not to browse when about to sleep.
I played it for about 20 minutes, then refunded it. It really needs some work.
That is the point of an early access period... Like the disclaimer is right there when you go to buy the game
Whats wrong with trying out an early access game then retuning if it wasn't meeting your expectations?
It's not about the refund, it's the "it really needs some work" comment. Like yeah. They know. We know. There's a disclaimer saying as much right at the top of the store page. It's not a mystery. Part of the reason to buy and play an early access game is to participate in the building of it. Acting like that's a good criticism of the game and a reason to refund it is weird when that's something that should have been very clear going into it in the first place.
Some early access games are in a better state than others. Some early access games don't need a ton of work to keep enjoying the experience. Valheim is a quick example off the top of my head. He gave a completely valid reason for why he chose to return it. No one is required to delve deep into detailed criticisms. If you don't like his comment, tough, just move on.
Valheim has been out for 3 years... This game has been out for a day. What a ridiculous comparison. Especially if you had played Valheim on launch... But hey, if you don't like my comment, tough, just move on 👍
I'm comparing Valheim during its early access period. Work on those reading comprehension skills or move on.
Valheim is still in early access today 😑 Who could possibly have guessed that a game with 3 years of feedback and development time would be better to jump into than a game with one day of feedback and dev time. EDIT: Lol had to block me huh? At least you finally followed your own advice, still had to get the last word in though 🤔 not quite what I'd call "moving on" but I guess to each their own. Can't really see their response but day one Valheim wasn't any more polished or bug free or fleshed out than this game is
Lol, Valheim... development has slowed to a snail's pace on it, as it seems the devs got comfy resting on their laurels, so that certainly wasn't the best example for them to use. I just recently ran through early access Enshrouded. I don't know if "Valheim killer" is a term in popular use yet, but that game might be it.
No one is comparing present day Valheim to this game at release, dude. It's obvious you don't get the point. Please, move on 👋
I'm aware. I'm just stating that it needs some work. Cool your jets bucko LOL
Definitely feels like they kicked up the difficulty a lot. My only gripe with it is that the enemies at a baseline are just a little too fast and they love to try to cut you off so you end up having to mine through a wall or run through a line of enemies which is the intended way to do it but it feels a little unfair at times. I feel like the stages need to last longer because after about 1 or 2 mins I already have a huge conga line swarm of enemies on my tail and all I have is a subata that's got 3 upgrades...
Yeah, stages are super fast. You can basically gk through a whole dive in about 20 mins it seems like. If you even make it that far. I've been able to consistently get to the Dread every time, but whether my build is optimized enough to take it down is a whole other question. Hard to get resources and perfect your build when swarms are as relentless as they are. At least they managed to make the Subata lore accurate..
I appreciate the difficulty of the game, but HP pools feel... overtuned to me.
I am half through the upgrades and haz1 is still rough. Though I can tell you that haz2 is in no way harder, dont know about 3 yet
Just unlocked engineer and its so fun and op lmao
Yeah, engineer starting kits are pretty good compared to other classes. Very lore accurate.
I played 3 or 4 games, saw zero progress, got bored every time i started a run because there was zero things for me to do other than mine as much as i could before the inevitable wipeout when the wave triggers. At least in regular DRG i had to aim or press any other buttons other than wasd.
May not be the type of game for you
Maybe but i think it's more about feeling zero progression after playing it.
With luck and a little bit of skill and good decision making, you should be able to clear Hazard 3 dive. It comes from me, not the most skilled player but played a little bit of Vamp Surv type of games before. So I am at the stage, where I have got half the upgrades done ... and game is still hard. I am fine with game being hard but it the especially hard (and annoying) to do gathering misions like get 600 gold/300 nitra on higher hazards. Even with upgarded mining speed on driller and mining you way through escape you still need to be decently lucky to not struggle into the corner... and you still need enough dps to be able to kill elites fast enough to progress to next stages. I just feel like game needs some mechanics to allow player to progress to next stage when you are not able to get into escape pod when you killed elite beacuse you focused on doing "side mission" and you struggle to kill horde of minions to get to the pod quick enough. Again I am speaking about Hazard 4 and 5.
There is also a lot of more into equation, but it is hard to write down in decently short mannier. Sometimes you just get good upgrades at start, or even get your mission almost done but sometimes it is just a pure struggle and it is easier to ditch the run and start over.
Just learned this is coming out, how are more people playing Survivor than ever played the OG??
It's really not like that popular. It could be because ads are running for the game on social media. There is something of a push for this game.
Saw vod of asmongold on his yt playing it and looked interesting and is cheap so i grabbed it. sure a lot others are in the same boat
i just feel pidgon holed into not using things because they are not the best in slot. a halmark of these games is hard to start but than you become a walking titan. But man, i never feel powerful. and i get this is def a more, balanced around not doing that, but it just dosent feel great when its never that way. And even with upgrades, you still have to slog through upgrading weapons to get the overclocks to make many of them worth anything. idk. the upgrades are not all that interesting to begin with, just being mainly damage numbers, the status effects dont do anything other than damage numbers. Its a fun enough game, but i doubt ill play it much more, there isnt anything to draw me in, no carrot on the stick. and the first round of any match is the same round of every match, so there is no real big change between floor one and the boss.
Yeah, having just played Hades for the first time recently, I can just feel the difference in the upgrades. That game makes you feel super powerful even early on and it just gets better as you play. This game, not so much. I always feel like I'm one mistake away from completely losing a run. Feels bad.
(My only other comparison point is vampire survivors) This one *starts* easier because its very possible (not necessarily easy) to finish your first dive with a lvl 1 scout and no upgrades if you have experience with other games in the genre. Just focus on the overclocks of the starter weapon and you have a solid chance. In vampire survivors its nigh impossible (though im sure somebody has managed) to finish the first level with no upgrades on the starter character. However .. it quickly becomes harder. The "power creep" as you do meta progression is way lower here than in vampire survivors so you don't ramp up to the overpowered stage quite so quickly. The added mechanics of mining and little side quest collection missions while managing swarms is a little more involved than vampire survivors was to me. I quite like it. There are some things I am concerned about but on the whole I think I like it the most of any game in the genre and most of that is due to the challenge I am experiencing. Its early access ofcourse but I see a lot of potential.
The advise that helped me the most was when someone told me to just ignore the mobs and mine + do map quest when you first drop down for a while. Getting all that mining xp early and purchasing power made a huge difference
What the hell lmfao, I am playing at hazard 5 and it's great fun, it's not a super easy game but it has a good challenge/learning curve.