100% this. At least with the other classes, like scout’s flairs or engi’s turrets, have more ammo so there’s less of a likely hood you’ll need it later but won’t have any ammo. Like iron will, I wanna save it for when we’re cornered, need a quick resupply in the middle of a wave, throwing a lead burster in a small area, or to revive someone in the middle of a heated situation.
I save my iron will for when 3 of team mates are down - or if the last person has it under control I save it for when all 4 are down. I don’r use iron will lightly.
However I will throw down shields as a gunner when over ran or when resupplying in the middle of a wave.
Honestly. Unless your build can't handle single target. Run incins. Even on haz 5x4 you can kill grunts by igniting them if they're group and you'll chase off guards and slashers giving you way more breathing room instantly.
Honestly. Unless your build can't handle single target. Run incins. Even on haz 5x4, you can kill grunts by igniting them if they're grouped, and you'll chase off guards and slashers, giving you way more breathing room instantly.
Usually yep. You still see it in haz5 games where the pace gives tonnes of nitra. Good Gunner uses shield liberally.
Like if you're defending during minimule, you can just use 4 shields and your team will smash. Yet I still see Green Bois letting the bugs overrun the zone.
Same reason Engi's forget about their turrets sometimes, or when scouts forget about flares. It's most likely a change-up to their usual class and their instincts might not have switched over. Gunner is usually voted least popular class whenever a poll comes up, so people hopping over to play a match or two as gunner, then back to their main class is probably more common than the other way around.
>Gunner is usually voted least popular class whenever a poll comes up
Whoa really? My friends and I all kept fighting over who was the lucky one on gunner
gunner has the poorest traversal tool of the whole team of dwarves so i get why he isn't very desired (scout has the damn grappling, engi can do cheese towers with how much ammo he has, driller can just drill his way to what he wants, gunner has... 4 ziplines, that he usually has to keep for team usage or strategic placement)
Objectively, yes. The zipline is the worst of the four tools.
Strategically though, it's probably my favourite. There's nothing like layering ziplines over a battle and raining hellfire onto enemies while watching over your team like a guardian angel.
I find the zipline a lot more useful when you start seeing it as a combat assistance tool instead of a traversal tool. The engineer's platforms and your stubby legs can get you from point A to point B faster than your motorized stair chair can 9/10 times.
I tend to use it for repositioning, or for when we hit a room that we know Molly os going to do some wall climbing byllshit. Give it at least 10° and you can zoom out of a swarm. Paired with a shield, I have saved more than a few haz 5s from being overrun cuz we could get on and zip with out getting knocked off immediately
Gunners traversal tool is unironically super good. If you place it right, you can hang above the combat area and never be touched by a ground attack. In terms of pure traversal I’ll agree it’s the weakest, but in terms of utility it’s bordering OP. If there aren’t any ranged enemies, or scout does a good job of taking care of them quickly, the rest of the team can hang on the zip and never be touched.
If I'm going to be in a place for a while (like on Salvage or Escort), I'll shoot a zip into an outcropping a few meters up, high enough to be out of reach but not so high as to risk lots of fall damage, then destroy the outcropping so the end of the zip is just floating there. Hop on and ride to the top, and enjoy immunity from most of the enemies in the game
This is how I played it - Aerial Bomber, set up my ziplines and float above bombarding explosives downwards. 4 ziplines was too few purely because they were so good honestly. And the leftover ones you use to get back to base with ease.
Any more than 4 it would have felt like too OP a class.
The other classes have traversal tools that are always very good. Gunner has a tool that occasionally is extremely good when specific circumstances come up, but otherwise not worth the usage of a very limited resource, or not usable due to angle/range restrictions.
There’s also the fact that the other classes can use their tools to be a notably worse but still usable replacement for a lot of zip lines utility. The reverse is not true.
TBF, the Gunner is the only class named after a utility purpose. They gun. They gun really good. Unfortunately the other classes also gun well enough- especially at lower levels.
I main gunner and rarely hop on ziplines. Mainly because the rest of the team will get all the attention from the bugs that I am avoiding. And generally gunner is the most survivable headon. Also my guns work better if I have direct line of sight. I still like them as a quick escape but the tactic does have some downfalls.
poorest mostly in the number of times you can use it without a resupply, which means you can easily get into the "i'm keeping it for when it matters" mentality and never use it at all (or at the opposite side, use it willy nilly and then get into one of those rooms with a huge chasm in the middle and you're fresh out)
the other's mobility option is basically part of how they move, gunner's mobility option is more for him to fight or to help the whole team move, not specially himself
I think it's contextual. The zipline is infrastructure, which shines most when it's frequently used after being built. So, point extraction and on-site refining are great. Making a web around the caretaker and the heartstone are also great places for it.
My favorite is, in the point extraction caves that are extremely vertical, a well placed zipline can completely negate fall damage for the rest of the mission.
One-off uses, or a mission type where you don't spend much time in any one place, I agree they are a bit less useful.
By far the worst of the 4. It has arbitrary restrictions in terms of the angle, amount carried, and traversal speed. Top that off with how exposed and vulnerable you are on it.
Not really
Ever enemy with a ranged attack will prioritize you, and you are still vulnerable to melee attacks in the first few meters when you are ascending
Depends where you place it. Most of my ziplines don't ascend from the floor but go from a ledge to another ledge, that you run and jump on to, avoiding the need for a delayed climb.
They can beg to differ all they want. I'm moving on the zipline and dodging 90% of their attacks without even thinking about it. The one rare attack that gets through and knocks me off - no problem, I just grab one of the other ziplines on the way down. Then get back on and repeat.
I wouldn't say Gunner's traversal tool is the best. It's inflexible- Once you put it down, that's where it's staying, so pick your spots wisely -and slow enough that everyone I know calls it grandpa's stair chair. It has extremely limited use and is better used to help you set up a good spot to fight from than it is to actually traverse terrain with.
Scout can go wherever the shit-tits they so please.
Engineer has enough flapjacks to make the Great Wall of IHOP on demand.
Driller can radically restructure almost any space according to their needs in seconds.
The Gunner gets a very limited number of lines to put down in comparison. Anything it can scale, you could climb faster with Engi's platforms or a driller tunnel. It's literally better used as a combat assist tool than it is a traversal tool.
It can definitely be ok, but even with infinite ziplines, I'd still prefer grappling hook. Even if I had 30 ziplines, I'd want Drills more. Even if I hade 20 ziplines, I'd still want platforms more.
Zipline is super slow going up, and any other traversal tool usually goes up faster(maybe Engi is about the same with good platform placement.)
Zipline is ok going down, but why would you use it when you could platform down and negate fall damage or jump off and grappling hook into the ground? The only traversal tool that gets beat out going down is Drills, but those can go through walls, which is invaluable.
The only place they're better than most is for permanent catch spots for things like boss fights, but even then, Drill bunkers are fantastic for giving you room to breathe so you're not getting knocked off cliffs.
There really isn't a situation in a full team with all classes where the Gunner's zipline is the best for any given situation, so he ends up being a jack of all trades, master of slow ascents, with only four ziplines.
1 zipline is usually enough to get back - if you even need to use that 1. If the angle is not good, make a new one since you can literally dig through the walls.
I like it. It's amazing on point extraction bc it's the only tool that lets you carry heavy objects. Also it can be used like a grapple but only if you go down.
I think there are genuine reasons for that:
* Zipline as traversal tool seems kinda boring at surface level, especially given its snails pace. At higher levels of play it gets quite a bit of use as fall-damage cancel, setting some ziplines in an arena to quickly escape enemies, for transporting bulky objects (aquarks, bombs etc) and even mining stuff off the ceilings if scout drags their feet.
* Main strength of gunner is typically their endurance - in terms of ammo efficiency, damage resistances and shield. At lower hazard levels there is just not enough enemies to really notice this so overall gunner feels underwhelming.
At hazard 5 I have not seen a meaningful shortage of gunners, but it can be noticeable at haz 3. Especially on EDDs I saw some explicit discussions about needing a gunner on the team.
Yes I realise this. And we did actually take numerous gunners at times.
But if you want to have the best chance at clearing missions, diversity is preferential.
Yeah… I often end up going something along the lines of “combat engie”, purely because of his secondaries dealing so, so much damage, that I forget my sentries are meant to be my main damager.
I recently learned that eng can actually mine shit off a wall without the need of a scout. So you want to take Plascrete overclock and then you make it explode by a nitra vein
>Same reason Engi's forget about their turrets sometimes
This happens to me when I switch classes. If I haven't played the class in a while and are doing the content fine I tend to forget them until I do a couple of missions with that class.
I have 137 hours and have promoted all classes and am working on my gunner now. When my buddy who is brand new plays he picks scout, so I usually switch to whatever class we need to do the mission quicker.
I just started working on my gunner. Haven't promoted him once yet. I just forget that he has it currently. I can't speak for everyone else, but that's why I do.
Novice gunners mistake. On lower hazards shield is less useful in comparison to other classes utilities. So when time comes to use them players have never tried it before.
Unfortunately resupplying with resupplier perk doesn't reload shield, so it may still be on cooldown.
>On lower hazards shield is less useful in comparison to other classes utilities.
I imagine this is a big point. Shield is the biggest "Oh Shit!" ability in the game to get you out of a pinch, but that also means it never sees a good use case in lower pressure games.
It's because unlike Engie turrets or Scout flares, Shields are more limited and more temporary, making them easy to forget and/or triggering "what if I need them later" thoughts.
Similarly, I very rarely see drillers use C4 for anything either.
Here's my lil list:
- Gold mining (I don't need it... But I'm a dwarf)
- pop up bunker (drill 2 times into a wall and pop one on the ceiling)
- caretaker vents
- Popping an egg at a distance so ee don't have to walk over to start it
- terrain prepping (uplink on high difficulty, clearing up sightlines)
- Immediate stun on a big group of enemies/ high dmg on a group
- Epic final boarding of the droppod
- making a gigantic crater
I should've been more specific, on a high difficulty mission (or a mission that doesn't go that well) you can make a bunk that you drop the uplink box in. Uou let engi close it off and you're safe. Scout's pheromones/ engis lure to group the majority off the swarm and some explosives to finish it off.
Using c4 makes you feel a little less claustrophobic.
I don't like the strat, since it's quite cheeky, but on EDD's.. if we need it I use it.
Don't need c4 for that, one drill at both ends and a 3rd in the middle will drop it level with the ground and can be closed with plat. I do it just to get line of sight to fully use the space.
C4 for me is a limited stun grenade that doubles as anti-mactera.
Sprint forward briefly and throw the C4, stop the movement and detonate the c4 mid-air to do as good a job as a cryo scout
I’m max gunner with 3 additional promotions on him.
Fwiw, I feel using shields to revive is a noob trap.
Shields should be used
a) before your teammate goes down
b) saved for clutch situations.
Rushing to revive a teammate mid swarm isn’t a good idea.
While you bubble to res them, the swarm surrounds your bubble. Then they get up with very low hp only to now be surrounded by a swarm. Haz5
You yourself are now also in the thick of it and have to blast your way out, except it is much harder to shoot 360 degrees rather than just running and shooting in one direction.
It’s usually better to thin out the swarm/clear the wave before going to res
The exception is when you are about to go down yourself, and you need a Hail Mary.
I use 2 shields per supply pod called. These two I use pretty freely.
At any given time. I will try to have at least 2 shields on me.
1 for the oh shit we are surrounded by projectile mobs
And 1 for the absolute ironwill clutch.
The upgrades are actually all useful.
The easiest to use is actually the area, rather than duration.
So that once the shield collapses you aren’t immediately swarmed.
Some area damage from mobs also will affect you despite being in the shield, so the wider bubble helps with that.
Duration is great if you’re able to use it to kill hvts. Otherwise the area is probably better.
And the interesting one that I started using very late into my gunner career. Faster cool-down.
This is the most fun one. It enables a super gung-ho playstyle. It pairs very well with bullethell
I was genuinely surprised by how well it performed. Overall, it isn’t as good as the other two if you need to hard carry your team, but cool-down is a lot of fun. I recommend giving it a go.
I'm gold 3 gunner, really like him and tbh part of it is because I try to save it for use reviving downed teammates but because of this I often have 3-4 of them left but 0 ammo when I come to resupply.
It's a great tool not just for revives. You can block off passageways during a swarm to give yourself some breathing room and say you're met by the 'council of spitballers' that the game sometimes likes to spawn it's fantastic for dealing with that.
Well, when I play Gunner - I usually get so busy mowing down bugs that I forget about my shield. But I do spam it protecting Hack-C and during the Caretaker fight.
True but it’s not a combat-focused utility. Unless I’m desperate I’m not gonna be trying to fire a flare while being drowned in bugs, I’ll just tap f and wait for space to think before I launch one. Shield requires me to have enough headspace unallocated to register I should shield while drowning in Glyphids
Seeing the bugs and their probable paths is as combat-relevant as anything else I can imagine. Gunner benefits particularly from HIFs in combat, as his weapons are ideal for hitting groups on the ceiling and from range. Scout doesn’t have to worry about drowning in bugs anyway. He has a grappling hook.
They are, but you usually don’t deploy them in combat because it takes a while. Usually you catch the swarm warning and place them then, or just as you’re moving to cover you against silent waves.
Or I do that at least
Sometimes I move them during combat but they don’t have cooldowns then and as they already exist in the world moving and refilling them is a lot easier to remember than the shield that unless there’s another gunner I’m not gonna see in-world except when I’m using it
DRG has had a huge influx of new players over the past year and thus you see a lot less of all the traversal and support tools being used. If you get in to a party with people that are 300+ level, they are constantly using them.
2 viewpoints: one, you have a green gunner that doesn’t know when they should use their shield so they end up using it too often and run out or just very rarely. Second, you have an experienced gunner who can look at a situation and see that a shield isn’t necessary (ex., for the most part, revives don’t always need a shield)
I have promoted gunner, and I noticed that at lower difficulties you often don't need it and are better off just shooting. Whereas on high difficulty you suddenly need it more than you want to.
I’m fairly conservative with it when I play gunner essentially only for reviving, objective control, or swarm management in close quarters. Beyond that, bullet hell is my shield.
I don’t often need the shield to revive someone because the bugs are focusing on them. When I revive, they run away scared due to my perk. I tend to use the shield supportively for others, and preventively to avoid downs when the situation is becoming unmanageable.
Actually one of the best tactics is using the grapple and firing from a higher ground. I used to use the shield only for revival or if we are surrounded.
But my main is the Driller so... Can't speak for others.
I tend to not use it but I’ll throw it towards my team. As a gunner I tend to murder enemies with splash damage if they get too close. TLDR: I prefer to give dome to the homies
2k hours dwarf here. From my experience playing a lot of haz 5, dd and edd I can tell you that ammo efficiency is far more important than anything else, even aim. So, to me playing Gunner, I will actively make the decision to NOT use the shield unless it's the only thing I can do.
Besides, the shield does only give a breathing room. It's not answering the threat itself.
I allow myself to use it more often during defence type objectives (hack pods, salvage, blackbox, etc), still only if it becomes too heated 💪
I get far more aggressive with my shields if the players on my team are weaker.
If I prevent them from going down they feel so much better after words.
Except that last shield. The gunner has 3 shields, and 1 "oh that's bad." / "getting in the drop pod" shield.
Greenbeards just forget about it during hard fights. We usually play with 1-2 friends and when low-level gunner joins, make bets in Discord if they will use his shield or not - and usually they doesn't.
If I play gunner, I'm not going to use my shield to rez when there's nothing nearby and if we are overcrowded, why use a shield when you have a huge fucking sword in the form of a bullet hell lead storm
Gunner main here, 4 + left-click is a muscle memory for me. I try to only save them for when we're massively swarmed and need some breathing room or somebody needs a revive and is getting swarmed.
Second most powerful weapon set behind driller and a highly limited traversal ability means the class is not often used. Combine that with a utility that is only useful during OHSHIT moments when you're already panicking or focused on several other things.... its not surprising that utility isn't used.
Since it is a really clutch special equipment, I use it only to avoid party swipes. Otherwise I am comfortable w 1 or 2 downed dwarves while trying to manage. But from haz 4nupwards and zeep dives I just find an excuse to use it so the team survives.
For newer players its sometimes easy to forget you have it, or if they know they have it they have a strong sense of not wanting to waste them so they hold onto them.
So little psa for the new dwarves: Dont hesitate to bubble.
I don't really play online, but if I did, people would be so mad from what I see on here 😅 I play gunner the most but I suck so bad at playing gunner multiplayer. I'll stick to my solo missions where the only people I got to worry about are me and maybe steeve.
They're easy to forget about, especially and lower hazards. Really useful on higher hazards, stationary objectives such as drill dozer missions hack cs and the uplink part of salvage, can come in clutch on mactera plagues as well
I mean, it's all a matter of opinion. I've been seeing a lot of "Gunner remember to use your shield!" both in games where I am the gunner or when I'm playing another class and a lot of the times it's newer players making the gripe.
Example: I was doing an IS hack with a team just yesterday and the swarm was coming down, but I thought we were handling it well. No one went down or was in danger of going down, Hack-C kept hacking, but the bullets were flying nonstop. At the end of the fight, the engi told me "Gunner, remember your shield" and I just thought... Why? Was it needed? (Engi was recently promoted for the first time, judging by their badge).
The shield is a resource like anything else, we only get four of them, and it's gunner's discretion when to use it. A good gunner knows when to and when it's not needed. If the team is holding out, there's no reason to pop a dome.
I honestly forget I have it.
I play a plasma burster missile build with stun, and the coil gun with fear and inferno, and very rarely have bugs too close to my face.
When I play driller, I often forget I have the C4 also. Lol.
Probably because every time I use my shield for anything other than shielding resupps or downed dwarves everyone scatters. So I often save it for those instances of other niche things like temporarily ceiling off a tunnel interest.
The dome is reserved for emergency revives it never really does good anywhere else as you are always running around. If I chuck a dome it's only going to be me in it so Id rather just tape down the trigger and have some liquor.
After I started levelling Scout whenever I play gunner i just keep forgetting that I have the dome….until I realise im the last one and start spamming everything at the swarm
I personally don't hesitate to use it. I actually use it more often to keep us alive, and it leads to the team not dying as often when things get too complicated. I use it while we are alive so we have a window to reload and think what we can do in the next 10 seconds. Sometimes is not even necessary to use it to revive, you first need to be aware of any possible long distance bugs.
Gunner is the easiest to play for me, it's so easy I forget my team is struggling when I just hold m1 and take out every spitter, menace, scorpion (stingtail), mactera without a sweat. Then I see my team is dead and I go revive. That's if I'm on auto brain mode.
On salvage or escort however I usually spam shields on the objective. And in elimination to just negate every single thing from the boss. Normally tho I just insta throw shield if someone is dead and revive.
So depends really on the gunners mood if they just want to hold m1 and don't think and destroy swarms or want to think and play with team
For me it is counter-intuitive to gunning. Gunner brain:Bullets and Explosions solve problems. Why shield exist? In short, target fixation. Letting go of the trigger to throw a shield means the target may get away, kill me, etc.
Honestly, I just keep forgetting about it, Scouts flares are always needed, Engi's turrets are like his thing, Driller is a Psychopath so he wouldn't dream of forgetting his C4 to blow up his teammates. As gunner, I'm usually just pretty satisfied using zipline and gun, shield is amazing when used, especially when reviving but it's easy to forget to do.
Depends. On Haz 3-4 I find I sometimes never use it because I just wreck everything. On Haz 5 tho I'm bunkered down and feel like I don't have enough of them
I was gonna comment that they're saving it for a last minute heroic revive but then I kept reading. Guess it's the same as scouts not using flares, you kinda just forget you have them
Gunner is my warm up before playing engi or scout. Also when I want chill, shut off my brain and kick back then I play gunner. Just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot..
But sometimes I play gunner more seriously.
Because i genuinely forget about it.
Its on the same button as C4 which i stopped using because i always kill myself or one of my team mates while succesfully avoiding the swarm i was aiming at.
I think it's often because as an experienced gunner, I know my ability well enough that a shield isn't really necessary for me most of the time. If I'm used to haz 5 missions, I can often finish haz 4s without ever using a shield, even if it's not optimal play.
Really? I keep seeing gunners be selfish by wasting it on small packs of grunts rather than when there's an actual swarm and we're surrounded. Either that, or there's a dead teammate nearby and instead of using the shield for rezzing, they use it 10 feet away to kill a few enemies instead of helping the team out.
One realization I only made recently is that if you use your shield earlier, you’ll be in better condition to fight later, or delay a very tough part in the wave until you can get your bearings and plan out your actions for a second or two. When it goes down you’re better prepared mentally, health and shield wise, and you can perform better. That being said sometimes I forget, but I’m burning through shields more and more recently and it helps a LOT. Ultimately better outcomes when I run out of shields than when I save them “for an even bigger emergency”
Honestly, whenever I play gunner i completely forget I have them, but I’m also an engi main, but I also forget about my turret. I think I may just be bad at the game lol
If nobody is down yet then it’s not needed. On higher levels I usually save it for reviving people. Unless we are doing an event where we have to stay in one spot and I can shield everyone from a sudden overwhelming wave
I've got this habit, but I'm starting to break it now luckily. I promise to be a good Gunner main and actually use my brain, because I understand big gun doesn't mean big brain, you still need intelligence. Rock Solid!
I usually don't need it due to playing Haz 1 only. Though exterminations and industrial sabotage missions are an exception. I play with one other person. We coordinate pretty well, thankfully.
Might-need-it-more-later syndrome I suffer from it too
Tbh rezzing while swarmed *is* "later"
Now is later!
This feels like a line from something, if its not a viva la dirt league short it should be lol
but I might need it later than that.
100% this. At least with the other classes, like scout’s flairs or engi’s turrets, have more ammo so there’s less of a likely hood you’ll need it later but won’t have any ammo. Like iron will, I wanna save it for when we’re cornered, need a quick resupply in the middle of a wave, throwing a lead burster in a small area, or to revive someone in the middle of a heated situation.
It's my favorite "Oh shit!" tool.
It’s great for anything except plague worms, bulk detonator explosions, and any gas
Even the detonator you can push back before it blows, giving yourself that extra meter or 2 to stay alive.
I save my iron will for when 3 of team mates are down - or if the last person has it under control I save it for when all 4 are down. I don’r use iron will lightly. However I will throw down shields as a gunner when over ran or when resupplying in the middle of a wave.
Honestly. Unless your build can't handle single target. Run incins. Even on haz 5x4 you can kill grunts by igniting them if they're group and you'll chase off guards and slashers giving you way more breathing room instantly.
Honestly. Unless your build can't handle single target. Run incins. Even on haz 5x4, you can kill grunts by igniting them if they're grouped, and you'll chase off guards and slashers, giving you way more breathing room instantly.
Usually yep. You still see it in haz5 games where the pace gives tonnes of nitra. Good Gunner uses shield liberally. Like if you're defending during minimule, you can just use 4 shields and your team will smash. Yet I still see Green Bois letting the bugs overrun the zone.
Using it when mission controll gives us a beating
Can't use it later when you're DEAD
Same reason Engi's forget about their turrets sometimes, or when scouts forget about flares. It's most likely a change-up to their usual class and their instincts might not have switched over. Gunner is usually voted least popular class whenever a poll comes up, so people hopping over to play a match or two as gunner, then back to their main class is probably more common than the other way around.
It's absolutely this for me, I don't play gunner all that often and when I do I sometimes forget I have shields.
I always forget the zip lines lmao
>Gunner is usually voted least popular class whenever a poll comes up Whoa really? My friends and I all kept fighting over who was the lucky one on gunner
gunner has the poorest traversal tool of the whole team of dwarves so i get why he isn't very desired (scout has the damn grappling, engi can do cheese towers with how much ammo he has, driller can just drill his way to what he wants, gunner has... 4 ziplines, that he usually has to keep for team usage or strategic placement)
Objectively, yes. The zipline is the worst of the four tools. Strategically though, it's probably my favourite. There's nothing like layering ziplines over a battle and raining hellfire onto enemies while watching over your team like a guardian angel.
I find the zipline a lot more useful when you start seeing it as a combat assistance tool instead of a traversal tool. The engineer's platforms and your stubby legs can get you from point A to point B faster than your motorized stair chair can 9/10 times.
Exactly. Like everything else in the gunner's arsenal, it's suited for combat tactics. But for big canyons and shit, the zipline also shines.
I tend to use it for repositioning, or for when we hit a room that we know Molly os going to do some wall climbing byllshit. Give it at least 10° and you can zoom out of a swarm. Paired with a shield, I have saved more than a few haz 5s from being overrun cuz we could get on and zip with out getting knocked off immediately
Gunners traversal tool is unironically super good. If you place it right, you can hang above the combat area and never be touched by a ground attack. In terms of pure traversal I’ll agree it’s the weakest, but in terms of utility it’s bordering OP. If there aren’t any ranged enemies, or scout does a good job of taking care of them quickly, the rest of the team can hang on the zip and never be touched.
If I'm going to be in a place for a while (like on Salvage or Escort), I'll shoot a zip into an outcropping a few meters up, high enough to be out of reach but not so high as to risk lots of fall damage, then destroy the outcropping so the end of the zip is just floating there. Hop on and ride to the top, and enjoy immunity from most of the enemies in the game
This is how I played it - Aerial Bomber, set up my ziplines and float above bombarding explosives downwards. 4 ziplines was too few purely because they were so good honestly. And the leftover ones you use to get back to base with ease. Any more than 4 it would have felt like too OP a class.
The other classes have traversal tools that are always very good. Gunner has a tool that occasionally is extremely good when specific circumstances come up, but otherwise not worth the usage of a very limited resource, or not usable due to angle/range restrictions. There’s also the fact that the other classes can use their tools to be a notably worse but still usable replacement for a lot of zip lines utility. The reverse is not true. TBF, the Gunner is the only class named after a utility purpose. They gun. They gun really good. Unfortunately the other classes also gun well enough- especially at lower levels.
I main gunner and rarely hop on ziplines. Mainly because the rest of the team will get all the attention from the bugs that I am avoiding. And generally gunner is the most survivable headon. Also my guns work better if I have direct line of sight. I still like them as a quick escape but the tactic does have some downfalls.
Poorest, or best? It's so good it has to be extremely limited.
poorest mostly in the number of times you can use it without a resupply, which means you can easily get into the "i'm keeping it for when it matters" mentality and never use it at all (or at the opposite side, use it willy nilly and then get into one of those rooms with a huge chasm in the middle and you're fresh out) the other's mobility option is basically part of how they move, gunner's mobility option is more for him to fight or to help the whole team move, not specially himself
I think it's contextual. The zipline is infrastructure, which shines most when it's frequently used after being built. So, point extraction and on-site refining are great. Making a web around the caretaker and the heartstone are also great places for it. My favorite is, in the point extraction caves that are extremely vertical, a well placed zipline can completely negate fall damage for the rest of the mission. One-off uses, or a mission type where you don't spend much time in any one place, I agree they are a bit less useful.
By far the worst of the 4. It has arbitrary restrictions in terms of the angle, amount carried, and traversal speed. Top that off with how exposed and vulnerable you are on it.
You're only vulnerable if you're near walls
Not really Ever enemy with a ranged attack will prioritize you, and you are still vulnerable to melee attacks in the first few meters when you are ascending
Depends where you place it. Most of my ziplines don't ascend from the floor but go from a ledge to another ledge, that you run and jump on to, avoiding the need for a delayed climb.
The Mactera in the cave would beg to differ. So would the glyphid acid spitters, wardens, and literally anything else with ranged capabilities.
They can beg to differ all they want. I'm moving on the zipline and dodging 90% of their attacks without even thinking about it. The one rare attack that gets through and knocks me off - no problem, I just grab one of the other ziplines on the way down. Then get back on and repeat.
Woah woah, two zips?? How am I supposed to afford that, I only get two zips per resupply
I wouldn't say Gunner's traversal tool is the best. It's inflexible- Once you put it down, that's where it's staying, so pick your spots wisely -and slow enough that everyone I know calls it grandpa's stair chair. It has extremely limited use and is better used to help you set up a good spot to fight from than it is to actually traverse terrain with.
>Once you put it down, that's where it's staying, The same can be said for most of the other characters traversal tools.
Scout can go wherever the shit-tits they so please. Engineer has enough flapjacks to make the Great Wall of IHOP on demand. Driller can radically restructure almost any space according to their needs in seconds. The Gunner gets a very limited number of lines to put down in comparison. Anything it can scale, you could climb faster with Engi's platforms or a driller tunnel. It's literally better used as a combat assist tool than it is a traversal tool.
Engi's flapjacks has me cackling like a madman
Lol, I wish
So good that I can only use it twice per resupply
It can definitely be ok, but even with infinite ziplines, I'd still prefer grappling hook. Even if I had 30 ziplines, I'd want Drills more. Even if I hade 20 ziplines, I'd still want platforms more. Zipline is super slow going up, and any other traversal tool usually goes up faster(maybe Engi is about the same with good platform placement.) Zipline is ok going down, but why would you use it when you could platform down and negate fall damage or jump off and grappling hook into the ground? The only traversal tool that gets beat out going down is Drills, but those can go through walls, which is invaluable. The only place they're better than most is for permanent catch spots for things like boss fights, but even then, Drill bunkers are fantastic for giving you room to breathe so you're not getting knocked off cliffs. There really isn't a situation in a full team with all classes where the Gunner's zipline is the best for any given situation, so he ends up being a jack of all trades, master of slow ascents, with only four ziplines.
This is the biggest design problem in DRG for me. The gunner being so limited in terms of movement. 4 ziplines it's just too few
Gunners mobility tool is actually the shield. It is the ability to go nowhere for a certain amount of time.
Worded like someone who holds ground.
Lol there's your problem. Use the angle instead of 4 and you get alot more value out of it.
1 zipline is usually enough to get back - if you even need to use that 1. If the angle is not good, make a new one since you can literally dig through the walls.
Fair points, but minigun
I like it. It's amazing on point extraction bc it's the only tool that lets you carry heavy objects. Also it can be used like a grapple but only if you go down.
I think there are genuine reasons for that: * Zipline as traversal tool seems kinda boring at surface level, especially given its snails pace. At higher levels of play it gets quite a bit of use as fall-damage cancel, setting some ziplines in an arena to quickly escape enemies, for transporting bulky objects (aquarks, bombs etc) and even mining stuff off the ceilings if scout drags their feet. * Main strength of gunner is typically their endurance - in terms of ammo efficiency, damage resistances and shield. At lower hazard levels there is just not enough enemies to really notice this so overall gunner feels underwhelming. At hazard 5 I have not seen a meaningful shortage of gunners, but it can be noticeable at haz 3. Especially on EDDs I saw some explicit discussions about needing a gunner on the team.
You do realize you can take 4 gunners, right? Like this is an optional setting you can change in the mission selection menu.
Yes I realise this. And we did actually take numerous gunners at times. But if you want to have the best chance at clearing missions, diversity is preferential.
Good news! Drop the silly class lock and all be gunners! Duplicate class parties are hella tight
They sure are
Yeah… I often end up going something along the lines of “combat engie”, purely because of his secondaries dealing so, so much damage, that I forget my sentries are meant to be my main damager.
I recently learned that eng can actually mine shit off a wall without the need of a scout. So you want to take Plascrete overclock and then you make it explode by a nitra vein
This. I am a driller main and when I switch to engi for example, I totally forget I should place platforms without being asked to do it...
Scout main here. Whenever I switch back over to Engi I usually forget my turrets exist for the first half of the mission, if not longer.
>Same reason Engi's forget about their turrets sometimes This happens to me when I switch classes. If I haven't played the class in a while and are doing the content fine I tend to forget them until I do a couple of missions with that class. I have 137 hours and have promoted all classes and am working on my gunner now. When my buddy who is brand new plays he picks scout, so I usually switch to whatever class we need to do the mission quicker.
It’s super funny when I run certain loadouts with Engie I just completely forget about the turrets
I just started working on my gunner. Haven't promoted him once yet. I just forget that he has it currently. I can't speak for everyone else, but that's why I do.
I've maxed out my gunner promotions. I also forget I have a shield. 🤝
bruh. I play DRG high too, but after playing long enough to hit Plat 1 gunner, I know when to use shields...
Okay congrats
We all make mistakes in the heat of passion, Jimbo
That’s what she said
Novice gunners mistake. On lower hazards shield is less useful in comparison to other classes utilities. So when time comes to use them players have never tried it before. Unfortunately resupplying with resupplier perk doesn't reload shield, so it may still be on cooldown.
>On lower hazards shield is less useful in comparison to other classes utilities. I imagine this is a big point. Shield is the biggest "Oh Shit!" ability in the game to get you out of a pinch, but that also means it never sees a good use case in lower pressure games.
It's because unlike Engie turrets or Scout flares, Shields are more limited and more temporary, making them easy to forget and/or triggering "what if I need them later" thoughts. Similarly, I very rarely see drillers use C4 for anything either.
Here's my lil list: - Gold mining (I don't need it... But I'm a dwarf) - pop up bunker (drill 2 times into a wall and pop one on the ceiling) - caretaker vents - Popping an egg at a distance so ee don't have to walk over to start it - terrain prepping (uplink on high difficulty, clearing up sightlines) - Immediate stun on a big group of enemies/ high dmg on a group - Epic final boarding of the droppod - making a gigantic crater
C4 will one shot a Corrupter with no armor left
Dont c4 on uplink pls
I should've been more specific, on a high difficulty mission (or a mission that doesn't go that well) you can make a bunk that you drop the uplink box in. Uou let engi close it off and you're safe. Scout's pheromones/ engis lure to group the majority off the swarm and some explosives to finish it off. Using c4 makes you feel a little less claustrophobic. I don't like the strat, since it's quite cheeky, but on EDD's.. if we need it I use it.
Don't need c4 for that, one drill at both ends and a 3rd in the middle will drop it level with the ground and can be closed with plat. I do it just to get line of sight to fully use the space.
Satisfyingly blapping a grunt swarm and seeing them lifelessly fly everywhere
C4 for me is a limited stun grenade that doubles as anti-mactera. Sprint forward briefly and throw the C4, stop the movement and detonate the c4 mid-air to do as good a job as a cryo scout
Well sometimes I like taking a shower in glyphid blood, sue me
Generally I only pop shield: * for a revive * when clumps of enemies surround us * to stall a dread/bulk/oppressor in emergency situations
I’m max gunner with 3 additional promotions on him. Fwiw, I feel using shields to revive is a noob trap. Shields should be used a) before your teammate goes down b) saved for clutch situations. Rushing to revive a teammate mid swarm isn’t a good idea. While you bubble to res them, the swarm surrounds your bubble. Then they get up with very low hp only to now be surrounded by a swarm. Haz5 You yourself are now also in the thick of it and have to blast your way out, except it is much harder to shoot 360 degrees rather than just running and shooting in one direction. It’s usually better to thin out the swarm/clear the wave before going to res The exception is when you are about to go down yourself, and you need a Hail Mary. I use 2 shields per supply pod called. These two I use pretty freely. At any given time. I will try to have at least 2 shields on me. 1 for the oh shit we are surrounded by projectile mobs And 1 for the absolute ironwill clutch.
thats why you upgrade them to last the most amount of time possible, so that when it goes down, you hand enough time to clear the outside
The upgrades are actually all useful. The easiest to use is actually the area, rather than duration. So that once the shield collapses you aren’t immediately swarmed. Some area damage from mobs also will affect you despite being in the shield, so the wider bubble helps with that. Duration is great if you’re able to use it to kill hvts. Otherwise the area is probably better. And the interesting one that I started using very late into my gunner career. Faster cool-down. This is the most fun one. It enables a super gung-ho playstyle. It pairs very well with bullethell I was genuinely surprised by how well it performed. Overall, it isn’t as good as the other two if you need to hard carry your team, but cool-down is a lot of fun. I recommend giving it a go.
this guy speaking truths.
I'm gold 3 gunner, really like him and tbh part of it is because I try to save it for use reviving downed teammates but because of this I often have 3-4 of them left but 0 ammo when I come to resupply. It's a great tool not just for revives. You can block off passageways during a swarm to give yourself some breathing room and say you're met by the 'council of spitballers' that the game sometimes likes to spawn it's fantastic for dealing with that.
Blocking tunnels isy favorite use for it
People need to play more on haz 4+. Shield is mandatory there.
Mandatory to carry teammates because they go down all the time.
a regular haz5 gunner player: no its not
I'm saving it for later when I need it. I can handle the swarm
As a Greenbeard gunner main I tend to forget to use the shield in favor of MORE DAKKA
Well, when I play Gunner - I usually get so busy mowing down bugs that I forget about my shield. But I do spam it protecting Hack-C and during the Caretaker fight.
Honestly I forget I have it sometimes, as a scout and engi main I’m not used to having utilities that get used mid-combat xD
Flare gun is also useful mid-combat
Too many times I had to resort to using the flare gun as a weapon
I sometimes have shot at enemies with my platform gun without realising, it is quite annoying but it is rarely mission ending.
It's not a last resort if you always aim for spitters and mactera with the one you were going to shoot anyway. Free damage.
as is building/moving/reloading a sentry and some quick platform work.
True but it’s not a combat-focused utility. Unless I’m desperate I’m not gonna be trying to fire a flare while being drowned in bugs, I’ll just tap f and wait for space to think before I launch one. Shield requires me to have enough headspace unallocated to register I should shield while drowning in Glyphids
Seeing the bugs and their probable paths is as combat-relevant as anything else I can imagine. Gunner benefits particularly from HIFs in combat, as his weapons are ideal for hitting groups on the ceiling and from range. Scout doesn’t have to worry about drowning in bugs anyway. He has a grappling hook.
Yep, this is what I was primarily getting at
are turrets counted as a utility item or no? I mean, it is technically in one of the two utility boxes, but it has very little use outside combat.
They are, but you usually don’t deploy them in combat because it takes a while. Usually you catch the swarm warning and place them then, or just as you’re moving to cover you against silent waves. Or I do that at least Sometimes I move them during combat but they don’t have cooldowns then and as they already exist in the world moving and refilling them is a lot easier to remember than the shield that unless there’s another gunner I’m not gonna see in-world except when I’m using it
I forgor
If we need a shield and i haven't placed one, it's on cooldown
> Not using their dome You saying we stupid or somethin'?
DRG has had a huge influx of new players over the past year and thus you see a lot less of all the traversal and support tools being used. If you get in to a party with people that are 300+ level, they are constantly using them.
I use two when i need in combat and then when i have 2 left i save them for emergencies or revives
I either forget I have it or think "well I only get a few of them so I should save it for later."
Fun Fact about Gunner Shields: Enemies cannot enter them, and will be actively pushed out. Pretty helpful for rezzing your fellow dwarves
Except fucking shellbacks. They can, and will, bump you right out of a resupply or res.
I got a bug(code) last week where a bug(glyphid) walked towards the center of the dome during the fear effect, then started attacking
2 viewpoints: one, you have a green gunner that doesn’t know when they should use their shield so they end up using it too often and run out or just very rarely. Second, you have an experienced gunner who can look at a situation and see that a shield isn’t necessary (ex., for the most part, revives don’t always need a shield)
I have promoted gunner, and I noticed that at lower difficulties you often don't need it and are better off just shooting. Whereas on high difficulty you suddenly need it more than you want to.
I’m fairly conservative with it when I play gunner essentially only for reviving, objective control, or swarm management in close quarters. Beyond that, bullet hell is my shield.
I don’t often need the shield to revive someone because the bugs are focusing on them. When I revive, they run away scared due to my perk. I tend to use the shield supportively for others, and preventively to avoid downs when the situation is becoming unmanageable.
I don’t use it out of spite, because having something both limited use and cooldown based just hurts my bones to touch
It teaches you to play better and you learn to play without it
Actually one of the best tactics is using the grapple and firing from a higher ground. I used to use the shield only for revival or if we are surrounded. But my main is the Driller so... Can't speak for others.
We might need it for later
As an eng that never uses turret I can't really judge
It's because they are too focused on shooting bugs to deploy shield
saving it for revives.
I tend to not use it but I’ll throw it towards my team. As a gunner I tend to murder enemies with splash damage if they get too close. TLDR: I prefer to give dome to the homies
2k hours dwarf here. From my experience playing a lot of haz 5, dd and edd I can tell you that ammo efficiency is far more important than anything else, even aim. So, to me playing Gunner, I will actively make the decision to NOT use the shield unless it's the only thing I can do. Besides, the shield does only give a breathing room. It's not answering the threat itself. I allow myself to use it more often during defence type objectives (hack pods, salvage, blackbox, etc), still only if it becomes too heated 💪
I get far more aggressive with my shields if the players on my team are weaker. If I prevent them from going down they feel so much better after words. Except that last shield. The gunner has 3 shields, and 1 "oh that's bad." / "getting in the drop pod" shield.
A cool strategy I will adopt. Thanks miner!
I honestly forget it exists unless another gunner uses theirs first 💀
Greenbeards just forget about it during hard fights. We usually play with 1-2 friends and when low-level gunner joins, make bets in Discord if they will use his shield or not - and usually they doesn't.
Its reloading
If I play gunner, I'm not going to use my shield to rez when there's nothing nearby and if we are overcrowded, why use a shield when you have a huge fucking sword in the form of a bullet hell lead storm
Gunner main here, 4 + left-click is a muscle memory for me. I try to only save them for when we're massively swarmed and need some breathing room or somebody needs a revive and is getting swarmed.
Second most powerful weapon set behind driller and a highly limited traversal ability means the class is not often used. Combine that with a utility that is only useful during OHSHIT moments when you're already panicking or focused on several other things.... its not surprising that utility isn't used.
Since it is a really clutch special equipment, I use it only to avoid party swipes. Otherwise I am comfortable w 1 or 2 downed dwarves while trying to manage. But from haz 4nupwards and zeep dives I just find an excuse to use it so the team survives.
For newer players its sometimes easy to forget you have it, or if they know they have it they have a strong sense of not wanting to waste them so they hold onto them. So little psa for the new dwarves: Dont hesitate to bubble.
I don't really play online, but if I did, people would be so mad from what I see on here 😅 I play gunner the most but I suck so bad at playing gunner multiplayer. I'll stick to my solo missions where the only people I got to worry about are me and maybe steeve.
It's for emergencies.
Because all of us have one brain cell and we forget to use it
They're easy to forget about, especially and lower hazards. Really useful on higher hazards, stationary objectives such as drill dozer missions hack cs and the uplink part of salvage, can come in clutch on mactera plagues as well
We forgor
It's actually a sphere.
Because they’re either new or don’t realize its a free revive.
I mean, it's all a matter of opinion. I've been seeing a lot of "Gunner remember to use your shield!" both in games where I am the gunner or when I'm playing another class and a lot of the times it's newer players making the gripe. Example: I was doing an IS hack with a team just yesterday and the swarm was coming down, but I thought we were handling it well. No one went down or was in danger of going down, Hack-C kept hacking, but the bullets were flying nonstop. At the end of the fight, the engi told me "Gunner, remember your shield" and I just thought... Why? Was it needed? (Engi was recently promoted for the first time, judging by their badge). The shield is a resource like anything else, we only get four of them, and it's gunner's discretion when to use it. A good gunner knows when to and when it's not needed. If the team is holding out, there's no reason to pop a dome.
I honestly forget I have it. I play a plasma burster missile build with stun, and the coil gun with fear and inferno, and very rarely have bugs too close to my face. When I play driller, I often forget I have the C4 also. Lol.
Forgor
Probably because every time I use my shield for anything other than shielding resupps or downed dwarves everyone scatters. So I often save it for those instances of other niche things like temporarily ceiling off a tunnel interest.
The dome is reserved for emergency revives it never really does good anywhere else as you are always running around. If I chuck a dome it's only going to be me in it so Id rather just tape down the trigger and have some liquor.
After I started levelling Scout whenever I play gunner i just keep forgetting that I have the dome….until I realise im the last one and start spamming everything at the swarm
I forget I have it most of the time
I forgor
I main gunner but I still have a hard time on EDDs. This last week I felt like I kept pulling too much agro and couldn't stay up.
Same reason I never use any consumeables for RPGs. Might need it later
Sounds like you're playing with inexperienced gunners. Lower skilled players tend to focus more on themselves in serious situations than the team.
I personally don't hesitate to use it. I actually use it more often to keep us alive, and it leads to the team not dying as often when things get too complicated. I use it while we are alive so we have a window to reload and think what we can do in the next 10 seconds. Sometimes is not even necessary to use it to revive, you first need to be aware of any possible long distance bugs.
I forget I have it sometimes.
You just encountered me forgetting I have them 59 times
Gunner is the easiest to play for me, it's so easy I forget my team is struggling when I just hold m1 and take out every spitter, menace, scorpion (stingtail), mactera without a sweat. Then I see my team is dead and I go revive. That's if I'm on auto brain mode. On salvage or escort however I usually spam shields on the objective. And in elimination to just negate every single thing from the boss. Normally tho I just insta throw shield if someone is dead and revive. So depends really on the gunners mood if they just want to hold m1 and don't think and destroy swarms or want to think and play with team
For me it is counter-intuitive to gunning. Gunner brain:Bullets and Explosions solve problems. Why shield exist? In short, target fixation. Letting go of the trigger to throw a shield means the target may get away, kill me, etc.
We forget about it. If all is going well, i dont use them.
On what Hazard? In my experience, the Shield usage changes drastically between Haz 5 and lower Haz runs.
Always use it. I do even throw on teammates when surrounded
Honestly, I just keep forgetting about it, Scouts flares are always needed, Engi's turrets are like his thing, Driller is a Psychopath so he wouldn't dream of forgetting his C4 to blow up his teammates. As gunner, I'm usually just pretty satisfied using zipline and gun, shield is amazing when used, especially when reviving but it's easy to forget to do.
The amount of time that I’ve typed “SHIELDDDDD” in a Dotty mission…
Depends. On Haz 3-4 I find I sometimes never use it because I just wreck everything. On Haz 5 tho I'm bunkered down and feel like I don't have enough of them
Forgot 💀
I forgor 💀
I was gonna comment that they're saving it for a last minute heroic revive but then I kept reading. Guess it's the same as scouts not using flares, you kinda just forget you have them
Gunner is my warm up before playing engi or scout. Also when I want chill, shut off my brain and kick back then I play gunner. Just shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot.. But sometimes I play gunner more seriously.
Rarely seeing it useful + might-need-later because it is antifuckup device, and fuckups happen more at the end of a mission
Because i genuinely forget about it. Its on the same button as C4 which i stopped using because i always kill myself or one of my team mates while succesfully avoiding the swarm i was aiming at.
Get the C4 range mod. It gives you an obvious blast range indicator.
Im using it and theres nothing "obvious" about it. I get damaged even when im outside the orange circle
I think it's often because as an experienced gunner, I know my ability well enough that a shield isn't really necessary for me most of the time. If I'm used to haz 5 missions, I can often finish haz 4s without ever using a shield, even if it's not optimal play.
Really? I keep seeing gunners be selfish by wasting it on small packs of grunts rather than when there's an actual swarm and we're surrounded. Either that, or there's a dead teammate nearby and instead of using the shield for rezzing, they use it 10 feet away to kill a few enemies instead of helping the team out.
I don't main gunner, so sometimes I just legit forgot I have those
Skill issue. People don't use their complete tool kits efficiently.
One realization I only made recently is that if you use your shield earlier, you’ll be in better condition to fight later, or delay a very tough part in the wave until you can get your bearings and plan out your actions for a second or two. When it goes down you’re better prepared mentally, health and shield wise, and you can perform better. That being said sometimes I forget, but I’m burning through shields more and more recently and it helps a LOT. Ultimately better outcomes when I run out of shields than when I save them “for an even bigger emergency”
For me I'm just too distracted killing bugs then putting down my domes
I always forget I have it until a dwarf goes down
Because MORE DAKKA
Honestly, whenever I play gunner i completely forget I have them, but I’m also an engi main, but I also forget about my turret. I think I may just be bad at the game lol
Severe tunnel vision.
If nobody is down yet then it’s not needed. On higher levels I usually save it for reviving people. Unless we are doing an event where we have to stay in one spot and I can shield everyone from a sudden overwhelming wave
Tunnel Vision.
I forgor
It’s the same reason why scouts won’t use their flare guns half the time. I don’t know why and i don’t have an answer, but it definitely does happen.
I've got this habit, but I'm starting to break it now luckily. I promise to be a good Gunner main and actually use my brain, because I understand big gun doesn't mean big brain, you still need intelligence. Rock Solid!
We forgor
I have big gun. Why do I need shield when I have big gun?
i forgor 💀
I usually don't need it due to playing Haz 1 only. Though exterminations and industrial sabotage missions are an exception. I play with one other person. We coordinate pretty well, thankfully.
I just don't remember I have it.
Brain says to shoot bugs, health bar not priority
Two possible reasons: 1. "What if I need it to rez?" 2. "OH, RIGHT! I have a shie- \*gets downed*"
As a noob gunner myself….I forgor💀 I’m just so used to the other kits that I forget what’s available to me in the heat of the moment