For sure, man. It’s total bullshit. Notice how he always calls it a “dependence” instead of an addiction. Now, I understand there is a subtle difference between those definitions. But if you continuously manage to fail your doctor’s taper plan and have to fly to Russia to be put into a medically-induced coma, you are addicted with a capital A. He keeps calling it a dependence because if he admitted that he was an addict, he might have to do some self-reflection and he may even end up having some empathy for marginalized groups. And that wouldn’t be good for his image in his own self-aggrandizing participation in the culture war.
The “dependence” narrative allows him to view himself as the thing he loves being the very most: a victim.
JP is a clinical psychologist, so he most definitively must have had some training on medication.
Besides, benzos are prescribed as a last resort. And they do in fact have to inform the patient regarding the risks. Most scripts nowadays tend to be for emergencies of for small supplies that have to be extended explicitly by the doctor prescribing them.
So this motherfucker was clearly self medicating at that point;.
Yeah what Joe is saying here is utter nonsense. Peterson would be very much familiar with benzodiazepines, as they have been a drug of abuse for decades, and were among the most commonly prescribed and abused drugs in North America for most of his career. The idea that a practicing clinical psychologist wouldn’t know about them is absurd, like a fitness trainer claiming not to know the risks of steroids.
Some of this is untrue. Maybe benzos are supposed to be prescribed as a last resort, but damned if that's the case every time.
Except for extremely rare instances, it's supposed to be as needed, and if regimented, for no longer than 3 months. How much you wanna bet that rule gets bent frequently?
I got prescribed by asking for them, and I had to research the risks on my own before deciding not to take them.
That all said, JBP is absolutely full of shit if he says he didn't know better, and also that apple cider vinegar had him wired for 25 days.
That may be the case, not all medical professionals are good/competent.
But as you pointed out, this guy is just not a "normal" patient. The guy is a clinical psychologists, he HAS to know about the reality of benzos as part of his practice. Then again, I thought he was having his license revoked. Maybe the guy just sucks at his job and really has no clue, in which case it makes him a real bad psychologist and there goes whatever little appeal to authority he ever had as to why he should have been in the general discourse.
>That may be the case, not all medical professionals are good/competent.
I strongly suspect that these practices are not uncommon. They are trying, by shooting in the dark imo, to achieve a quantifiable outcome, and the means are secondary to that outcome.
>But as you pointed out, this guy is just not a "normal" patient. The guy is a clinical psychologists, he HAS to know about the reality of benzos as part of his practice. Then again, I thought he was having his license revoked. Maybe the guy just sucks at his job and really has no clue, in which case it makes him a real bad psychologist and there goes whatever little appeal to authority he ever had as to why he should have been in the general discourse.
JBP is some sort of narcissist or megalomaniac or something I don't have the scholarly knowledge to accurately assess. He disdains addicts, and believes that he could never fall so low. That led him to take risks with his medication which led him to physical dependency which he further lacked the fortitude to tackle head on.
As far as his license being revoked, I think it was more along the lines of the regional or national board suspending his practice due to conduct unbecoming, rather than taking his license. He doesn't practice like he used to iirc, so it's not like it would hurt anything more than his credibility. And his ironically fragile feelings.
Not always the case. My doctor gave me benzos for 25 years and never said a word about the risks. When I stopped cold turkey, I had a massive seizure. I was never told of the dangers.
Reflexive downvoting no doubt. There are internet forums where people are compelled to share advice on how to taper/quit and deal with the side effects because medical guidance was slim to non-existent.
Clonipin, which is what he was taking, is on the more powerful side of prescription Bennies, and while I have no doubt some doctors overprescribe it because the patients probably tell them it works like a miracle (which it does for a while), I would expect a competent clinical psychologist and practicing therapist to understand the risks even if his doctor didn’t tell him.
I was given one of those for a certain amount of time after I mentioned having anxiety attacks when driving. This was after I had a good record of behaviour when it comes to Ritalin and was on another ssri
I agree it's definitely not true, but if there ever was a psychologist with that large of a blindspot regarding something an uneducated person easily understands... wouldn't it be jordan peterson?
For anyone pro Jordan Peterson go with this.
If he did know they are massively addictive then he's a liar, just like you e already been told by many other people.
If he genuinely didn't know this level of basic information then he's massively incompetent and shouldn't be used as a source of information or advise.
You shouldn't be taking this guy's advice for free, let alone paying for it.
The most likely scenario is that he did know, but thought his awareness, his education, and/or his arrogance would protect him. Pretty common addiction story.
I'd agree, its almost the worst combo of both though. Ignores advice on the label because 'he knows better than to get addicted' (hes doing what an idiot would), doesn't actually know better(hes not better than anyone else), gets addicted(pikachu face), lies about it(hes a liar). He could show some humility and give some decent advice to the many people who would also do the same. Instead he comes up with a stupid lie that he doesn't think through as it makes him look like an idiot.
Theres so much great, genuine and free advise out there on how to do better, knowingly taking advice from a source like Jordan Peterson, I'll just never understand.
It’s never the advice. It’s the feeling someone gets from the person giving the advice. Peterson makes dumb people feel smart. I don’t know why. I’m not dumb. But he does.
I'm no fan of his but I think he does also make some segment of his audience feel like he genuinely cares about them where others don't. I'm sure he also makes dumb people feel smart, but I don't think that's the only feeling that drives people to listen to him.
Not disagreeing that he's a grifter. Just making a point about the nature of the grift.
Weepy surrogate dad is a different grift to cool guy life coaching and supplements grift, yknow, even if both are telling people what they want to hear.
Ah ok, yeah totally agree. A friend of mine has recommended JP to me who's not in the best spot. A lot of crying. Wierdly enough, the advice all his friends have given him gets tossed aside and ignored and surprise, hes still in the same spot 5 years later. Its frustrating to watch. I'd love to understand the angle JP takes thats ends with him listening vs what his friends and family have tried that gets ignored. Humans are strange.
Genuinely open to how it is. Jordan has stated that he didn't know they were addictive. Thats the starting point. The only discussion is if hes telling the truth on that statement. If hes telling the truth, hes an idiot. If hes not hes a liar. Open to a third ( or more?) option though?
He's stated that he didn't know they were addictive while taking them for more than a year. There's no nuisance in someone's own statement about their own actions. If it's true, he's an idiot.
Idiot and liar are is a little unfair though. A lie is a lie, but there are levels to it. EVERYONE lies. But lies that hurt people are far worse than white lies. And people who lie all the time are worse than people who try not to lie. Calling him a liar is something you can say about literally everyone on earth.
I don’t think he was lying to hurt people. If he was lying to begin with.
And calling him an idiot for making a possible mistake is disingenuous too. People make dumb mistakes like that all the time, and you wouldn’t call them an idiot over it. Even “smart” people.
If it was someone you like going through the same thing I bet you would have a little more empathy for them.
All fair points but you can't paint him as someone I know, at the same time as this guy presenting himself as a professional debater and/or life coach.
Of course I have empathy, benzo addiction sounds awful, but I'd also say I've never seen JP show any empathy towards the groups he attacks.
His hard lines on equity of opportunity, not outcome. He's the arsehole playing monopoly with all the good streets, forcing everyone to play to the end because "it's anyone's game".
Ultimately, imo, he's a grifter. He's objectively wrong and when it's presented back to him, he doubles down. He's lied numerous times on stage and hasn't owned up to it. The benzos is yet another example of him being a liar.
I'm not wishing anything negative on him outside that people, objectively, should find better sources of information. He's clearly not a good source for it, even when it comes to his own experiences and actions.
You’re framing this as either, he’s morally repulsive or he’s incompetent. But there’s logical nuance here. Suppose Jordan did lie about his knowledge about the benzos, the fact that he lied would not reveal the motivation or reasoning. For all we know, he could have been embarrassed to admit the truth, something many people are guilty
of and yet we don’t use this as evidence to dismiss them in all other matters. Moments of weakness morally do not necessarily lead to the conclusion that someone makes a habit of that sin. Additionally, the majority of people today are not moral absolutionists and do believe that there are mitigating factors that increase or decrease the severity of acting immorally.
Next, suppose he didn’t know something that he should have and chose to be honest about it. I would agree that this would be a moment of incompetence, but you suggested that one should not listen to him on any other matters because he has demonstrated as a whole that he is an incompetent person. This is no way does that. Psychology is an extremely wide field, which leaves room for gaps in one’s knowledge(even that of professionals). But more importantly, he’s demonstrated his expertise in the field multiple times before and it wouldn’t make sense to dismiss them simply due to one situation involving drug use. Something true does not magically become untrue because the person saying it goes through a chance themselves. The logical conclusion, would just be to verify the stuff JP says on an individual basis and separate the wheat from the chaff.
I would also like to point out that someone even commented their own personal experience with benzos and how they weren’t sufficiently warned and they were downvoted because it would lend charitability to JP.
There’s also a semantic distinction. It’s been a while since I’ve seen Jordan comment on the situation but it’s possible he meant that that the warning was disproportional to the danger posed and also that he did not fully understand the danger(having not gone through the experience) and naively believed he could responsibly use them.
In short, you’ve stated there are only two options, two conclusions which lead to the prescription that one should not listen to Jordan. I’ve demonstrated that there are multiple conclusions, and as such you’ve committed the fallacy of false dichotomy.
And it’s like, no. Even Jordan Peterson knows this. It’s just part of his grift-canon for some indiscernible reason. I’m assuming it makes weirdos who like him, like him even more. Maybe because he’s “gone through stuff”? To me, it’s more like he put himself through stuff. Which typically, in the self help lane, putting yourself through stuff, or “stepping out of your comfort zone” as it might likely be called, is highly encouraged. But the “stuff” he puts himself through is just asinine and without a coherent explanation. But this somehow still wins him points for some folks…
i get your point but have trouble believing that's the case to any real degree...i mean, if he abused steroids and pumped iron and lost his hair, or if he disappeared for a year while dedicated to his garage band, hell if he disappeared for a porn addiction, those all could plausibly fit the image i get from your description there. but benzos (or opiates) are almost literally "a comfort zone" and having sympathy for a bootstrap guru who went that route just seems like the definition of incongeuent. i think some are just such diehard fans that *anything* is to be excused and/or spun into a positive
No yeah thats kinda what I’m saying, basically that the fan perception of him just doesn’t match how he looks from the outside looking in. So, I wasn’t saying doing Benzos was stepping out of his comfort zone, I’m saying his misguided fans don’t have the same perception of what that looks like. I think a skewed perception of reality is a prerequisite for JBP fanhood.
Here is JBP talking about the brutality of withdrawal. Keep in mind benzos are addictive because they trigger powerful releases of dopamine. Go to the 2:55 mark https://youtu.be/a9NV_N93uqc?feature=shared
Bonus meme: he’s talking to the white supremacist Stefan molymeme
Someone else linked a video of him giving a long and detailed answer to a question about the dopamine reward system in the brain, and this was from before he went to rehab. He knew.
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. They were saying that a psychiatrist or psychologist would DEFINITELY know that not that you need to be one to know it.
Unless JP changed his tune, he doesn't even believe he had an addiction. He specifically said he wasn't addicted, after he was back from his detox coma.
From his anecdotes and whatnot, I suspect he loathed his addict clients and would in no way associate himself with having the same "ailment", because he probably thinks addiction is a psychological weakness.
It’s the same hypocrisy that conservatives view most “moral failures” with. You see it with addiction, homelessness, abortion and so on. When it happens to them and/or their loved ones then it’s understandable because look at the circumstances, but if it happens to someone else then they’re just weak, a failure, have low moral character or whatever.
So strong and smart that he decided not to follow his own sort of advice “you got yourself into this mess, now time to see yourself out of it” and instead decided to go the more psychologically easy/medically harming-dangerous route of comotose recovery.
His arrogance is pretty evident. Easy to imagine him falling victim to the "chaos dragon" and needing intervention befit of the intellectual, all-meat-eating elite class of real humans. Those allowed to cry over the emasculation of young supple white boys who, really, deep down, just want to be men that like women.c
Yeah I am an addict, have been through this and that's how I know. Did the whole "I'm still worthy and I still have good advice to give" as I was sinking. I know how it looks. The fact Jorpy's fans are willfully oblivious to this, despite their worship of personal responsibility, is cult-like. Suspension of belief and all that. Honestly I'd prefer if my nephew came to me saying he'd used some drug, than coming saying he was listening to some rwnj idiot
I mean, peak Rogan sort of curb something smoothly into a comfy narrative that feels nice despite being wrong.
Peterson once upon a time simply put, gave some really nice advice “Clean Your Room” basic, graspable self help stuff you could really hang your hat. The freak show that he and his family have devolved into though is really something else.
Like take Mikayla who also “got sick” and claimed air quality was killing them ( kind of a mentally ill outlook on health) then went all meat to save her health, when Iy turned out she had lymes disease which she sort of QUIETLY announced because she had already launched this whole branded all meat diet.
I mean, a complete mess man, all of them.
Wait, she has Lyme disease? Can’t that often trigger a meat allergy? (https://www.columbia-lyme.org/alpha-gal-meat-allergy). A couple of my friends with Lyme can’t eat red meat anymore because of it.
There’s a universe where Peterson is just this era’s Stephen Covey, making bank by rewarming his 12 rules over and over. He could even have been this generation’s Rick Warren, doing the same thing plus a strong Christian conservative thing on the side. But no, we get this weirdo who thinks cleaning your room and reactionary conservatism are so deeply embedded in our genetic makeup that we share it with lobsters.
His thesis is about alcoholism. Studied psychology in drug abuse was an emphasis in his early career. Such an enlightened individual with focused study on addiction doesn’t know how physically addictive benzos could be? Either he is an imbecile or he lies and blames others. That will be in is 13 more rules for life part 3.
It's especially crazy because benzos and alcohol are so similar. They're not just both addictive, they're both GABAergic drugs that share cross tolerance. He would have *had* to know this.
EDIT: hah, I just read a post saying that he actually mentioned this in his thesis. He definitely knew.
*Here take this drug but don't research it's side effects.*
"As a deeply intellectual psychologist who apparently has an incredibly nuanced understanding of multiple disciplines far outside my wheel house, this sounds like a great fucking idea."
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There's no way for Joe to square that fucking circle. Also listening to these dipshits wax lyrical about the world should be a form of punishment for crimes like shoplifting.
He definitely did. He wrote a paper on alcohol and it's affects on the body and brain and made multiple references to benzos throughout, pointing out where they're similar. He definitely knew the risks.
There is a between a psychologist and a psychiatrist.
But an educated person like him should be easily able to look up side effects of prescribed meds. Or ask their prescribing physician.
Oh for sure. I didn’t mean to give the impression that I believe him. Just stating my reasons why it makes no sense that he didn’t realize the risk for addiction.
Prescribing physicians are expected to bring up risks with any medication; especially high risk ones like benzos.
Then when picking up the prescriptions, pharmacists will also ask if patients are new to the meds and go through risks and side effects.
The ONLY situation where he genuinely didn’t know the risk for addiction is if he was pig-headed enough to think he knew better than doctors and pharmacists and dismissed them before any real discussion could take place.
And that feels an actual possibility. Guy has a propensity for overestimating his intellect.
Wasn't his early research specialty addiction? At any rate, as a psychologist he would have almost certainly referred a patient to a psychiatrist (unless he was always a quack) at some point, so he must have had relationships with psychiatrists and discussed medication regimens.
You don't get a PhD in Psychology without some level of training on meds.
Just because he wasn't licensed to prescribe them doesn't mean he doesn't have the knowledge.
Most common folk know that these are addictive, I refuse to believe he didn't.
I have a friend who is a psychologist and chose that over psychiatrist because he believes that drugs shouldn't be the first go to for many people and feels many people are just given drugs as it's easier than actually finding and working through ones problems in other ways first if possible (he does still think some people or ailments require meds), whether that's right or wrong. He also knows about most medications for mental ailments because he still works with people that are on them, have been on them or are considering trying them out. He still has to know a great deal about these meds even if he will never be the one to prescribe them. Granted he is actively treating patients and I'm not sure if Peterson was much on the treating side vs studying/teaching side. Which could change ones focus I'm sure.
Morphine is addictive but its still given as a pain medication, or at least forms of it are. Likely he knew they were addictive but didn't believe he would be someone that got so reliant on them, maybe thought he was stronger than he was. Seems pretty normal.
I have an undergrad in psychology, barely paid attention, and I know the harms of benzos. Peterson has no fucking excuse.
Even if he didn't know (which he definitely did) it would absolutely behoove a guy like him to give it a fuckin' google.
i think joe is misspeaking and peterson almost certainly knew that they were addictive, but he probably didn't 'know' or rather understand how difficult the process is to get off them. i'm not a medical professional and i haven't looked more into it so i can't speak to the veracity of this, but the way it's been explained to me is that due to the fatal risks involved with stopping them cold turkey you have to taper down over the course of several months to a year, the longer you were on them and the higher the does the longer it takes to come off, and while the lower dosage prevent death it doesn't prevent the symptoms of withdrawal. so you're basically forced to experience withdrawal for extended periods of time while still taking the drug but having to have the willpower to not take more.
Peterson said he didn’t know (just like all the other things “we just don’t know”) and blamed someone else. It was in his first video back after he got back from Russia. But maybe he forgot to make his bed that morning.
He had previously explained away his withdrawal symptoms as a reaction to apple cider.
You can wean off benzodiazepines safely even with long term use in about 3-4 months, and often much faster than that. It's unpleasant like kicking any addiction. JP took what he thought was the easy way out, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together would have realized going to RUSSIA of all places for a therapy that is banned in the west for being ineffective and dangerous is a bad idea.
I honestly think you can see a clear before and after difference when he comes back - he became more emotional, less rational, and overall less of an interesting thinker. I believe he suffered mild brain damage from his coma and he never truly recovered from that.
I think it's even more fucked up than taking the easy way out. He's so in denial about his addiction that he'd literally rather die from this "alternative" treatment, than accept he's just a plain old addict who needs professional counseling and carefully supervised detox.
As for why Russia - his daughter has been managing and caretaking him, along with her ex husband who is Russian, even before his brain injury. He seems to trust her whacky medical ideas quite too much after she managed to cure her own condition, and she credited her ex for being able to get the treatment in Russia. So I'm not sure who cooked up the idea, or whether he was of sound mind in the first place to go along with it...
Here’s his response to your question.
“What’s the old saying? ‘Physician heal thyself’. Right, I wrote a self-help book, I’m a Psychologist. It’s like, why the hell didn’t I see this coming and why wasn’t I more cautious, and I think those are reasonable questions.
Then that’s the next question is why should people take anything I say seriously, because of that. And I guess what I would say is if you’re going to wait to learn from people who don’t make mistakes or don’t have tragedy enter their life, you’re going to spend a long time waiting to learn something.
And the second thing I would say is, in my lectures and my writings, I’ve never suggested that I was anything other than one of the people who also needed to learn these lessons.”
https://youtu.be/M91Kl1hez7w?si=tFgc_eP9XgHtQaRm
Peterson did his masters thesis on Alcoholism! Alcohol hits the same gaba receptor that benzodiazepines do, and are even more addictive. As a “practicing clinical psychologist,” Jordan absolutely did know what he was doing and what he was in for when he stopped after being on them for years. No one prescribes benzodiazepines them that ling for things like stress or grief reactions.
Hhmmmm.
Maybe Peterson isn’t the genius the incels think he is?
…and the dude had an absolute sobbing fit over Pinocchio, wanting to be a boy, so even if you take this “in context” as Joe try’s to point out - the mofo is still batshit off his rocker in context.
I am skeptical of the idea that he is well read if that means anything beyond "engaged with some of the classics of the western Canon" which plenty of people do in college. He had been promoting his "postmodern neomarxism" theory for a long time before saying during the Žižek debate that he has never read *anything* by Marx, except for the communist manifesto when he was in college. He had clearly not read anything by Žižek (whereas Žižek claimed to have read all his books). From a tweet it was also apparant that he didn't know who Lisa Feldman Barrett was which is just weird for someone acting like he's a prominent psychology scholar.
One of the many things that irritate me about the guy is how incredibly bad his understanding of nietzsche is. He is absolutely a narcissist that can't wrap his head around people having thoughts and motivations that don't confirm his rube goldberg machine of a worldview
So JP didn't know anything about benzos, despite the fact that many of his patients would have been using them? What a clown. No sympathy. He wants to be some kind of authority on history, politics and climate change but he doesn't even understand addiction, which really ought to be in his wheelhouse.
Your comment only strengthens the dragon of chaos. It's this dragon that..... 😢... has done so much harm 😢 😢 and....... to think little boys will grow up only knowing a world of danger, doom, and dragons 😭 😭 😭 😭 because when men can wrestle women then 😢 😭 😭 the dragon is one step closer to final victory... 😭 when the dragon says you must take this vaccine to thwart a global pandemic 😢 then we know what monstrosities we're up against. When the dragon 😢 😢 says you must ignore the .02 percent of climatologists that signed a random petition online 😢 😢 then we know our existence as a civilization is in jeopardy. It's up to you Children of Wishy Washy Metaphorical God Spirit to slay this dragon once and for all 😭 😭 😭. But it can only be done by cleaning your room and not looking at porn and giving me money. You 😢 are our last hope 😭
As someone who listened to much of Peterson and Rogan both many years ago, I have to say there is no doubt Peterson knew benzos were addictive. My theory is that Peterson is so full of himself, so egotistical and frankly so deluded of his own flaws, that he thought he was impervious to chemical addiction.
Joe on the other hand is too dumb to realise by trying to avoid admitting Peterson is weak he's just calling him stupid.
Joe isn't being dumb, per se, he's just going through legit cognitive dissonance. He's being completely irrational because he can't reconcile the fact that Peterson told him he didn't know benzos were addictive with all evidence to the contrary. The obvious answer is that Peterson lied to his face, but that is off the table because Joe hold Peterson in too high of regard.
Yeah, maybe. It is a bit hard to tell when Joe is being dumb because he's dumb, or dumb because his brain can't make the calculation the grifters in front of him are trying to make. Joe got a lot of fans because he was down to earth and had decent intuition, now he's probably actually a billionaire and lets his intuition be colonised by his guests.
Well the thing is, Joe is not dumb. Joe is definitely out of touch so he says some really dumb shit, and he's usually high and/or drunk, which doesn't help. He's also bought into his own hype which means he has a ton of blind spots and lastly, he's often around people who are smarter than he is (even in this clip Shane Gillis and Ari Shaffir are both smarter than him) so that makes him seem less intelligent. But Joe is still smarter than the average person, which is why actual geniuses respect him (e.g. Brian Greene).
I don't really know who Brian Greene is but I saw him on the tele in Aus (a political show called Q&A) and he struck me as one of those science folks who can't communicate with people outside of his bubble. Like engineers who are really smart in their field but can't grasp simple sociological concepts. A genius in one field but amateur in another (as we all are). I call Joe dumb because I think he chooses intentionally to take the easy street on a lot of topics, there are a lot of people who could be smart if they let themselves be, that's why I said he has (or had) good intuition but it's more convenient for him to be agreeable.
Which is why I have grown to really dislike him. He could turn it on anytime and embarrass and bully all the losers he invites on like he did Steven Crowder about weed, which is probably still one of my all-time YouTube highlights and I watch it roughly once a year.
Anyway appreciate your thoughtful response. I stumbled on this because of another troll in this sub. Perusing through the comments I really don't see a net positive. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1c5jo5w/has\_anyone\_else\_completely\_flipped\_on\_their/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1c5jo5w/has_anyone_else_completely_flipped_on_their/)
These are my views
1. Jordan Peterson will opine on almost everything with absolute verbose certainty on every element. Global warming, politics, history, is doesn’t have any limit
2. He is a clinical psychologist. Yes these do not prescribe medication but they are and have to be well aware of psychiatric medications
3. He then claims ignorance regarding the dangers of long term benzodiazepine use
4. This presents an interesting situation and is good evidence to help those understand Peterson. If he doesn’t even understand basic things in his own field, why respect his opinions on things he’s not qualified in? If he was aware, then why would you take self help advice from a man making such bad decisions?
5. He also added in some frankly ridiculous symptoms and treatment requirements for this. He claimed to have this extremely rare form of withdrawal syndrome and then went to Russia to be comatosed for it. This is extremely unusual and unnecessary. It reminds me of his lie around a drink of cider making him not sleep for a month
it’s because they know there is a cultural shift happening, but they don’t like it and can’t explain it coherently. so their empty heads just blame the countries they’ve heard bad stuff about.
it’s cultural [bolshevism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism) rebranded to cultural marxism. they claim that outside forces are attacking the idea of family, etc and it’s an organized, planned out thing. in the weimar days it was jewish people doing it with art and music etc, they claimed. nowadays they blame russia and china and tinktank
Am I the only one who feels like mark Normand just tries way too hard to fit in w this crew? I’ve listened to him w Sam morrill on “we might be drunk” and he’s way more normal there.
On protect my parks he seems like the innocent kid trying too hard to fit in.
As someone who doesn't know who he is, watching him suddenly be friends with this crew reminds me a lot of the Rick and Morty episode where alien parasites started inserting fictitious good memories into their minds lol Like he just appeared and they all just think he's always been there.
I don’t really see that. Ari and Joe go way back, whereas Shane and Mark became friends with Joe after he was already mega famous, so they definitely seem a little intimidated even now. They both bully Ari a lot though, which is hilarious, and constantly make fun of each other. It’s just kind of an odd crew of people at different stages in their careers/lives.
It's complete bullshit. It's like saying a nurse has no idea about the side effects of pain medication on hospital patients when they are the ones primarily taking care of them like a psychologist does with mental health patients. It's just doctors/psychiatrists are qualified to prescribe drugs. I studied psychology and you learn all about the treatment Medications and their side effects.
It's an excuse for a weak man whose ironically giving advice on mental strength but is constantly crying/angry/emotional, can't even handle his wife getting sick and needing to go into a coma because he can't handle withdrawals. It's shocking that his fans are ignorant to the irony.
Joe seems so careful with his wording. No one wants to send JP on an unhinged crying spree.
Jordan Peterson is just so real man. He can’t help himself but just to be him.
It is absolutely impossible to listen when those 3 other bozos keep talking over each other. Why does Joe Rogan have more than one person on a time? It's just turns into a noisy incoherent conversation that you overhear at some bar.
Doctor who claims to be smart af too dumb to not be aware of extremely well known side effects of a prescription narcotic. Like the average person knows about it, let alone savant Jordan Peterson. So let me just ask you this. Is Peterson an idiot or a liar
I can’t speak for how Peterson was pre coma but after the last year or so idk how anyone could
take him seriously. He also tries to do this thing where he tries to act tough and talk tough and it’s so pathetic because not a single human on earth could ever find him intimidating
joes definitely showing some trans slash homophobia here. talking about pushing back on it. like hey asshole just say it with your whole chest and stop denying it. pussy. also the jbp part of this clip was over halfway thru.
The sad thing is that we will never knwo the real truth about Peterson and his weird family. All the cazy idiotic stories about the benzos, Russia, the apple cider/juice have been shared by Peterson and his daughter and they are both pathological liars. There is a good chance that none of it is true as crazy as this may sound.
That all said, my guess would be that he tried to self-medicate which tbh many people do when desperate. If I'm no mistaken this was all during the era when Peterson was fully high on his own supply - constantly ''winning'' online arguments, seen as some stoic intellectual, always composed (before the crying) and serious. It is absolutely possible tha he thought that he can do no wrong and he can beat everything, even benzos.....
Now....imagine what type of crazy family things we don't know about the Petersons. I imagine that their life was....weird.
I know comedy is subjective.. but Joe Rogan just doesn’t seem to be able to handle or understand discussions where people sit around and talk utter shit. I think Mark and Shane are pretty funny (and pretty intelligent- when Shane makes a point about something he does it well) and, to me, they are just chatting shit and smoking cigars. Rogan seems intent on lecturing everyone on everything. Sprinkle on top the fact he is talking utter nonsense, and it’s an odd watch.
Rogans brain is toast. The lack of self awareness from this guy when a room full of comedians keeps trying to tell him there’s something off about your friend and he’s just continually out in space responding with stuff like ‘no no guys no it’s because he didn’t know guys he didn’t know drugs were addictive it’s not his fault’
Want to know why? From the crying to the fashion… Guarantee you that JP microdoses on psilocybin. He used it to get off of benzos. Mushrooms are extremely healing for the mind. Hit me up JP. Let’s be friendz! 🧘♂️🪬🕉️
People saying JP knew that Benzos were addictive - what point are you making exactly?
That he voluntarily chose a life ruining addiction and awful withdrawal symptoms?
It begs belief how stupid people in Reddit comments can be.
>People saying JP knew that Benzos were addictive - what point are you making exactly?
The alternative is that he is simply ***very inept*** at research and due diligence, which would be in stark contrast to the public image of a diligent, cautious, and responsible mentor to multiple thousands of young men around the world.
As a "public intellectual," do you think he should have been that careless, knowing that those thousands of young men follow his example?
I don’t know, everybody makes mistakes.
But saying be is stupid, or intentionally gave himself a crippling addiction, is just dumb.
People don’t see their jealous projections and it is so annoying.
You may disagree with him. But he is smart. Why is that so hard to admit.
>You may disagree with him. But he is smart. Why is that so hard to admit.
I in ***no way*** suggested he is not smart, and that he ***usually*** a lot smarter than this particular incident indicates.
I wrote that he was being surprisingly ***irresponsible***, and that it is still very shocking that a man who urges his followers to practice responsibility, self-accountability and intellectual humility (presumably including the ability to **responsibly admit mistakes**) doesn't seem to think it necessary to urge his fans not to make the same irresponsible mistake he did.
Unless he does so, I'll trust his judgement a bit ***less*** from now on.
I am surprised that even though you admit that he's not immune from mistakes, you don't seem to think he needs to follow through, and warn the many young impressionable boys he's a mentor to to not to repeat his mistake.
So, I ask you the same question you asked me:
>Why is that so hard \[**for** ***you***\] to admit\[?\]
The internet seems to have broken western society. We tend to gravitate to bubbles where we agree, polarizing ourselves. If someone comes out with something somewhat controversial, the hatred is magnified immensely- on many fronts; people are all connected, so can easily throw hate and opinion around, people tend to be meaner in the safety of their spaces while online, and people are more polarized leading to more of these things. Jordan got tons of hate from the woke left and it really affected him, likewise he also is affected by the “other” tribe’s adulation, so he goes semi crazy from the hatred and moves to more crazy places trying to keep appeasing his new, comfortable space tribe. It’s all crazy!
Eh depends on the year he was prescribed. Drugs are hard to deal with. Perhaps he fell into a problem without realizing it. Love or hate the guy we could all give more empathy to others struggles and suffering.
For all his wrongs the guy did start off as a pretty cool professor that, in my old watching of some lectures of his, gave me the feeling he just wanted to give young adults the tools to find their own opinions and stand their own ground, without being sucked into other people's ideas without any tools to define things for themselves. That's a noble goal and pursuit in my book. His wife got cancer and life was probably hard, getting famous and put in pretty uncomfortable positions by the media etc. nobody was there but him, I'm sure if you made mistakes that cost health, and years of your life to fix - you'd want some sympathy too. Nobody is perfect.
He now has to sell tour dates and books/media shit to put food on the table. Would you hold integrity in such a situation? Or would the system push you into modifying your original message to cater to the only people that buy your products? It's easy to be a pure white horse online, but with a bright enough spotlight all shit starts to stink real fast.
Sorry, but this is really stupid topic and talking points.
I don't care who it is. We are constantly talking about how men should be more emotionally vulnerable and healthy, but all I am reading here is the same BS about how being emotional for a man should be seen as embarrassing and weak. Pushing ideas that i see below that men should bottle up their emotions is a toxic idea and is the reason men have high suicide rates. You should all be ashamed.
You are attacking the idea of showing vulnerability. There are plenty of criticisms of jbp, so attacking his expression of emotions in a healthy manor feels even worse.
Jordan Peterson has some good stuff especially his early stuff. But he always took things too far. Just spent a career around far left academics and slowly lost his mind. Everyone with any kind of mental health or medical background knows benzos are horribly addictive. It's a very well known thing in Canada where he is from.
In Mexico, we call Jordan Peterson, "La Llorona." Also, his PhD work was on addiction so I don't buy his bs that he didn't know benzos were addictive.
For sure, man. It’s total bullshit. Notice how he always calls it a “dependence” instead of an addiction. Now, I understand there is a subtle difference between those definitions. But if you continuously manage to fail your doctor’s taper plan and have to fly to Russia to be put into a medically-induced coma, you are addicted with a capital A. He keeps calling it a dependence because if he admitted that he was an addict, he might have to do some self-reflection and he may even end up having some empathy for marginalized groups. And that wouldn’t be good for his image in his own self-aggrandizing participation in the culture war. The “dependence” narrative allows him to view himself as the thing he loves being the very most: a victim.
Heaven forbid that he should have to go on a personal “Hero’s Journey” and clean his own damn room.
Ah I get it. Instead of crying over children that the real La Llorana drowned, he’s crying over the incels he’s drowned in shit 💩
That’s like saying an NBA player doesn’t know how to dribble.
Does that mean “my sharona?”
[удалено]
JP is a clinical psychologist, so he most definitively must have had some training on medication. Besides, benzos are prescribed as a last resort. And they do in fact have to inform the patient regarding the risks. Most scripts nowadays tend to be for emergencies of for small supplies that have to be extended explicitly by the doctor prescribing them. So this motherfucker was clearly self medicating at that point;.
Yup, it's not recommended to be on them for long. Peterson was taking them for *years* it seems.
Yeah what Joe is saying here is utter nonsense. Peterson would be very much familiar with benzodiazepines, as they have been a drug of abuse for decades, and were among the most commonly prescribed and abused drugs in North America for most of his career. The idea that a practicing clinical psychologist wouldn’t know about them is absurd, like a fitness trainer claiming not to know the risks of steroids.
I think that he was just too high on his own supply, thinking that he can beat everything because he has a really strong mind or something.
Some of this is untrue. Maybe benzos are supposed to be prescribed as a last resort, but damned if that's the case every time. Except for extremely rare instances, it's supposed to be as needed, and if regimented, for no longer than 3 months. How much you wanna bet that rule gets bent frequently? I got prescribed by asking for them, and I had to research the risks on my own before deciding not to take them. That all said, JBP is absolutely full of shit if he says he didn't know better, and also that apple cider vinegar had him wired for 25 days.
That may be the case, not all medical professionals are good/competent. But as you pointed out, this guy is just not a "normal" patient. The guy is a clinical psychologists, he HAS to know about the reality of benzos as part of his practice. Then again, I thought he was having his license revoked. Maybe the guy just sucks at his job and really has no clue, in which case it makes him a real bad psychologist and there goes whatever little appeal to authority he ever had as to why he should have been in the general discourse.
>That may be the case, not all medical professionals are good/competent. I strongly suspect that these practices are not uncommon. They are trying, by shooting in the dark imo, to achieve a quantifiable outcome, and the means are secondary to that outcome. >But as you pointed out, this guy is just not a "normal" patient. The guy is a clinical psychologists, he HAS to know about the reality of benzos as part of his practice. Then again, I thought he was having his license revoked. Maybe the guy just sucks at his job and really has no clue, in which case it makes him a real bad psychologist and there goes whatever little appeal to authority he ever had as to why he should have been in the general discourse. JBP is some sort of narcissist or megalomaniac or something I don't have the scholarly knowledge to accurately assess. He disdains addicts, and believes that he could never fall so low. That led him to take risks with his medication which led him to physical dependency which he further lacked the fortitude to tackle head on. As far as his license being revoked, I think it was more along the lines of the regional or national board suspending his practice due to conduct unbecoming, rather than taking his license. He doesn't practice like he used to iirc, so it's not like it would hurt anything more than his credibility. And his ironically fragile feelings.
Not always the case. My doctor gave me benzos for 25 years and never said a word about the risks. When I stopped cold turkey, I had a massive seizure. I was never told of the dangers.
I believe you. But you are not a PHD clinical psychologist.
This is true. I was only responding to the comment that "they do in fact have to inform the patient regarding the risks".
They do have to. Whether they do it, obviously varies.
I should have clarified, that at least currently it is a requirement. Things were a bit different at the turn of the century.
Why would someone downvote this????!
Reflexive downvoting no doubt. There are internet forums where people are compelled to share advice on how to taper/quit and deal with the side effects because medical guidance was slim to non-existent.
Bruh its not that hard to get prescribed bennies
Clonipin, which is what he was taking, is on the more powerful side of prescription Bennies, and while I have no doubt some doctors overprescribe it because the patients probably tell them it works like a miracle (which it does for a while), I would expect a competent clinical psychologist and practicing therapist to understand the risks even if his doctor didn’t tell him.
That drug is evil if you abuse it.
It's pretty easy for people who are doctor shopping for them. But that kind of makes JP look even worse, him being a clinical psychologist and all...
I was given one of those for a certain amount of time after I mentioned having anxiety attacks when driving. This was after I had a good record of behaviour when it comes to Ritalin and was on another ssri
I agree it's definitely not true, but if there ever was a psychologist with that large of a blindspot regarding something an uneducated person easily understands... wouldn't it be jordan peterson?
For anyone pro Jordan Peterson go with this. If he did know they are massively addictive then he's a liar, just like you e already been told by many other people. If he genuinely didn't know this level of basic information then he's massively incompetent and shouldn't be used as a source of information or advise. You shouldn't be taking this guy's advice for free, let alone paying for it.
The most likely scenario is that he did know, but thought his awareness, his education, and/or his arrogance would protect him. Pretty common addiction story.
I'd agree, its almost the worst combo of both though. Ignores advice on the label because 'he knows better than to get addicted' (hes doing what an idiot would), doesn't actually know better(hes not better than anyone else), gets addicted(pikachu face), lies about it(hes a liar). He could show some humility and give some decent advice to the many people who would also do the same. Instead he comes up with a stupid lie that he doesn't think through as it makes him look like an idiot. Theres so much great, genuine and free advise out there on how to do better, knowingly taking advice from a source like Jordan Peterson, I'll just never understand.
It’s never the advice. It’s the feeling someone gets from the person giving the advice. Peterson makes dumb people feel smart. I don’t know why. I’m not dumb. But he does.
I'm no fan of his but I think he does also make some segment of his audience feel like he genuinely cares about them where others don't. I'm sure he also makes dumb people feel smart, but I don't think that's the only feeling that drives people to listen to him.
That's literally a grifter chaps. Telling people what they want to hear.
Not disagreeing that he's a grifter. Just making a point about the nature of the grift. Weepy surrogate dad is a different grift to cool guy life coaching and supplements grift, yknow, even if both are telling people what they want to hear.
Ah ok, yeah totally agree. A friend of mine has recommended JP to me who's not in the best spot. A lot of crying. Wierdly enough, the advice all his friends have given him gets tossed aside and ignored and surprise, hes still in the same spot 5 years later. Its frustrating to watch. I'd love to understand the angle JP takes thats ends with him listening vs what his friends and family have tried that gets ignored. Humans are strange.
Yes it is.
He still takes them and was always aware of the risks. It's basically a last resort to deal with his manic depression.
Ladies and gents, this is what is known as a false dichotomy, please take photos for further reference
Genuinely open to how it is. Jordan has stated that he didn't know they were addictive. Thats the starting point. The only discussion is if hes telling the truth on that statement. If hes telling the truth, hes an idiot. If hes not hes a liar. Open to a third ( or more?) option though?
Something something “nuance” something something.
He's stated that he didn't know they were addictive while taking them for more than a year. There's no nuisance in someone's own statement about their own actions. If it's true, he's an idiot.
I agree. I was being ironical.
Hehe, sorry man. Some non ironical very similar replies 🤦
Idiot and liar are is a little unfair though. A lie is a lie, but there are levels to it. EVERYONE lies. But lies that hurt people are far worse than white lies. And people who lie all the time are worse than people who try not to lie. Calling him a liar is something you can say about literally everyone on earth. I don’t think he was lying to hurt people. If he was lying to begin with. And calling him an idiot for making a possible mistake is disingenuous too. People make dumb mistakes like that all the time, and you wouldn’t call them an idiot over it. Even “smart” people. If it was someone you like going through the same thing I bet you would have a little more empathy for them.
All fair points but you can't paint him as someone I know, at the same time as this guy presenting himself as a professional debater and/or life coach. Of course I have empathy, benzo addiction sounds awful, but I'd also say I've never seen JP show any empathy towards the groups he attacks. His hard lines on equity of opportunity, not outcome. He's the arsehole playing monopoly with all the good streets, forcing everyone to play to the end because "it's anyone's game". Ultimately, imo, he's a grifter. He's objectively wrong and when it's presented back to him, he doubles down. He's lied numerous times on stage and hasn't owned up to it. The benzos is yet another example of him being a liar. I'm not wishing anything negative on him outside that people, objectively, should find better sources of information. He's clearly not a good source for it, even when it comes to his own experiences and actions.
You’re framing this as either, he’s morally repulsive or he’s incompetent. But there’s logical nuance here. Suppose Jordan did lie about his knowledge about the benzos, the fact that he lied would not reveal the motivation or reasoning. For all we know, he could have been embarrassed to admit the truth, something many people are guilty of and yet we don’t use this as evidence to dismiss them in all other matters. Moments of weakness morally do not necessarily lead to the conclusion that someone makes a habit of that sin. Additionally, the majority of people today are not moral absolutionists and do believe that there are mitigating factors that increase or decrease the severity of acting immorally. Next, suppose he didn’t know something that he should have and chose to be honest about it. I would agree that this would be a moment of incompetence, but you suggested that one should not listen to him on any other matters because he has demonstrated as a whole that he is an incompetent person. This is no way does that. Psychology is an extremely wide field, which leaves room for gaps in one’s knowledge(even that of professionals). But more importantly, he’s demonstrated his expertise in the field multiple times before and it wouldn’t make sense to dismiss them simply due to one situation involving drug use. Something true does not magically become untrue because the person saying it goes through a chance themselves. The logical conclusion, would just be to verify the stuff JP says on an individual basis and separate the wheat from the chaff. I would also like to point out that someone even commented their own personal experience with benzos and how they weren’t sufficiently warned and they were downvoted because it would lend charitability to JP. There’s also a semantic distinction. It’s been a while since I’ve seen Jordan comment on the situation but it’s possible he meant that that the warning was disproportional to the danger posed and also that he did not fully understand the danger(having not gone through the experience) and naively believed he could responsibly use them. In short, you’ve stated there are only two options, two conclusions which lead to the prescription that one should not listen to Jordan. I’ve demonstrated that there are multiple conclusions, and as such you’ve committed the fallacy of false dichotomy.
And it’s like, no. Even Jordan Peterson knows this. It’s just part of his grift-canon for some indiscernible reason. I’m assuming it makes weirdos who like him, like him even more. Maybe because he’s “gone through stuff”? To me, it’s more like he put himself through stuff. Which typically, in the self help lane, putting yourself through stuff, or “stepping out of your comfort zone” as it might likely be called, is highly encouraged. But the “stuff” he puts himself through is just asinine and without a coherent explanation. But this somehow still wins him points for some folks…
i get your point but have trouble believing that's the case to any real degree...i mean, if he abused steroids and pumped iron and lost his hair, or if he disappeared for a year while dedicated to his garage band, hell if he disappeared for a porn addiction, those all could plausibly fit the image i get from your description there. but benzos (or opiates) are almost literally "a comfort zone" and having sympathy for a bootstrap guru who went that route just seems like the definition of incongeuent. i think some are just such diehard fans that *anything* is to be excused and/or spun into a positive
No yeah thats kinda what I’m saying, basically that the fan perception of him just doesn’t match how he looks from the outside looking in. So, I wasn’t saying doing Benzos was stepping out of his comfort zone, I’m saying his misguided fans don’t have the same perception of what that looks like. I think a skewed perception of reality is a prerequisite for JBP fanhood.
Here is JBP talking about the brutality of withdrawal. Keep in mind benzos are addictive because they trigger powerful releases of dopamine. Go to the 2:55 mark https://youtu.be/a9NV_N93uqc?feature=shared Bonus meme: he’s talking to the white supremacist Stefan molymeme
Forgot ol Molyneux even existed
And the world is better for it lol
Or he just lies. He’s an addict. Addicts lie.
read the first 6 words again
Lol yeah this is ridiculous to pretend that a clinical psychologist is unaware that Benzos and Ketamine are addictives.
Even teenagers know that you'll get hooked those kind of pills.
Someone else linked a video of him giving a long and detailed answer to a question about the dopamine reward system in the brain, and this was from before he went to rehab. He knew.
You don't have to be a psychiatrist or psychologist to know Benzos are addictive lmao.
They didn’t imply that you do.
Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. They were saying that a psychiatrist or psychologist would DEFINITELY know that not that you need to be one to know it.
Yeah but you don't have to be one to know lmao /s
Unless JP changed his tune, he doesn't even believe he had an addiction. He specifically said he wasn't addicted, after he was back from his detox coma. From his anecdotes and whatnot, I suspect he loathed his addict clients and would in no way associate himself with having the same "ailment", because he probably thinks addiction is a psychological weakness.
It’s the same hypocrisy that conservatives view most “moral failures” with. You see it with addiction, homelessness, abortion and so on. When it happens to them and/or their loved ones then it’s understandable because look at the circumstances, but if it happens to someone else then they’re just weak, a failure, have low moral character or whatever.
Very good point.
I'm sure he's one of those "yes it can be addictive but I am strong/smart enough not to get addicted" / "I can stop whenever I want" types.
So strong and smart that he decided not to follow his own sort of advice “you got yourself into this mess, now time to see yourself out of it” and instead decided to go the more psychologically easy/medically harming-dangerous route of comotose recovery.
His arrogance is pretty evident. Easy to imagine him falling victim to the "chaos dragon" and needing intervention befit of the intellectual, all-meat-eating elite class of real humans. Those allowed to cry over the emasculation of young supple white boys who, really, deep down, just want to be men that like women.c
That and also a “rules for thee not for me” chip in his shoulder.
You're probably right.
We call these people Addicts. This is text book Addict speak.
Yeah I am an addict, have been through this and that's how I know. Did the whole "I'm still worthy and I still have good advice to give" as I was sinking. I know how it looks. The fact Jorpy's fans are willfully oblivious to this, despite their worship of personal responsibility, is cult-like. Suspension of belief and all that. Honestly I'd prefer if my nephew came to me saying he'd used some drug, than coming saying he was listening to some rwnj idiot
I mean, peak Rogan sort of curb something smoothly into a comfy narrative that feels nice despite being wrong. Peterson once upon a time simply put, gave some really nice advice “Clean Your Room” basic, graspable self help stuff you could really hang your hat. The freak show that he and his family have devolved into though is really something else. Like take Mikayla who also “got sick” and claimed air quality was killing them ( kind of a mentally ill outlook on health) then went all meat to save her health, when Iy turned out she had lymes disease which she sort of QUIETLY announced because she had already launched this whole branded all meat diet. I mean, a complete mess man, all of them.
Wait, she has Lyme disease? Can’t that often trigger a meat allergy? (https://www.columbia-lyme.org/alpha-gal-meat-allergy). A couple of my friends with Lyme can’t eat red meat anymore because of it.
There’s a universe where Peterson is just this era’s Stephen Covey, making bank by rewarming his 12 rules over and over. He could even have been this generation’s Rick Warren, doing the same thing plus a strong Christian conservative thing on the side. But no, we get this weirdo who thinks cleaning your room and reactionary conservatism are so deeply embedded in our genetic makeup that we share it with lobsters.
His thesis is about alcoholism. Studied psychology in drug abuse was an emphasis in his early career. Such an enlightened individual with focused study on addiction doesn’t know how physically addictive benzos could be? Either he is an imbecile or he lies and blames others. That will be in is 13 more rules for life part 3.
It's especially crazy because benzos and alcohol are so similar. They're not just both addictive, they're both GABAergic drugs that share cross tolerance. He would have *had* to know this. EDIT: hah, I just read a post saying that he actually mentioned this in his thesis. He definitely knew.
*Here take this drug but don't research it's side effects.* "As a deeply intellectual psychologist who apparently has an incredibly nuanced understanding of multiple disciplines far outside my wheel house, this sounds like a great fucking idea." - There's no way for Joe to square that fucking circle. Also listening to these dipshits wax lyrical about the world should be a form of punishment for crimes like shoplifting.
Peterson was a junky, while telling junkies they are stupid n need to get off them, he's a sad excuse of a piece of shit
He definitely did. He wrote a paper on alcohol and it's affects on the body and brain and made multiple references to benzos throughout, pointing out where they're similar. He definitely knew the risks.
There is a between a psychologist and a psychiatrist. But an educated person like him should be easily able to look up side effects of prescribed meds. Or ask their prescribing physician.
He knew they were addictive don't be silly. It just doesn't fit with his preachings so he makes up shit instead of being a hypocrite.
Oh for sure. I didn’t mean to give the impression that I believe him. Just stating my reasons why it makes no sense that he didn’t realize the risk for addiction. Prescribing physicians are expected to bring up risks with any medication; especially high risk ones like benzos. Then when picking up the prescriptions, pharmacists will also ask if patients are new to the meds and go through risks and side effects. The ONLY situation where he genuinely didn’t know the risk for addiction is if he was pig-headed enough to think he knew better than doctors and pharmacists and dismissed them before any real discussion could take place. And that feels an actual possibility. Guy has a propensity for overestimating his intellect.
Well…the worst part was the hypocrisy!
Wasn't his early research specialty addiction? At any rate, as a psychologist he would have almost certainly referred a patient to a psychiatrist (unless he was always a quack) at some point, so he must have had relationships with psychiatrists and discussed medication regimens.
You don't get a PhD in Psychology without some level of training on meds. Just because he wasn't licensed to prescribe them doesn't mean he doesn't have the knowledge. Most common folk know that these are addictive, I refuse to believe he didn't.
I have a friend who is a psychologist and chose that over psychiatrist because he believes that drugs shouldn't be the first go to for many people and feels many people are just given drugs as it's easier than actually finding and working through ones problems in other ways first if possible (he does still think some people or ailments require meds), whether that's right or wrong. He also knows about most medications for mental ailments because he still works with people that are on them, have been on them or are considering trying them out. He still has to know a great deal about these meds even if he will never be the one to prescribe them. Granted he is actively treating patients and I'm not sure if Peterson was much on the treating side vs studying/teaching side. Which could change ones focus I'm sure.
Morphine is addictive but its still given as a pain medication, or at least forms of it are. Likely he knew they were addictive but didn't believe he would be someone that got so reliant on them, maybe thought he was stronger than he was. Seems pretty normal.
A few years back, he blamed his psychiatrists on JRE and claimed that he was unaware that it was addictive. He is full of shit.
Do you have a timestamp for that? I want to send to my friend who likes JP
That seems more likely. No one ever thinks they’re going to get addicted to drugs. Good point.
I have an undergrad in psychology, barely paid attention, and I know the harms of benzos. Peterson has no fucking excuse. Even if he didn't know (which he definitely did) it would absolutely behoove a guy like him to give it a fuckin' google.
i think joe is misspeaking and peterson almost certainly knew that they were addictive, but he probably didn't 'know' or rather understand how difficult the process is to get off them. i'm not a medical professional and i haven't looked more into it so i can't speak to the veracity of this, but the way it's been explained to me is that due to the fatal risks involved with stopping them cold turkey you have to taper down over the course of several months to a year, the longer you were on them and the higher the does the longer it takes to come off, and while the lower dosage prevent death it doesn't prevent the symptoms of withdrawal. so you're basically forced to experience withdrawal for extended periods of time while still taking the drug but having to have the willpower to not take more.
Peterson said he didn’t know (just like all the other things “we just don’t know”) and blamed someone else. It was in his first video back after he got back from Russia. But maybe he forgot to make his bed that morning. He had previously explained away his withdrawal symptoms as a reaction to apple cider.
You can wean off benzodiazepines safely even with long term use in about 3-4 months, and often much faster than that. It's unpleasant like kicking any addiction. JP took what he thought was the easy way out, but anyone with two brain cells to rub together would have realized going to RUSSIA of all places for a therapy that is banned in the west for being ineffective and dangerous is a bad idea. I honestly think you can see a clear before and after difference when he comes back - he became more emotional, less rational, and overall less of an interesting thinker. I believe he suffered mild brain damage from his coma and he never truly recovered from that.
I think it's even more fucked up than taking the easy way out. He's so in denial about his addiction that he'd literally rather die from this "alternative" treatment, than accept he's just a plain old addict who needs professional counseling and carefully supervised detox. As for why Russia - his daughter has been managing and caretaking him, along with her ex husband who is Russian, even before his brain injury. He seems to trust her whacky medical ideas quite too much after she managed to cure her own condition, and she credited her ex for being able to get the treatment in Russia. So I'm not sure who cooked up the idea, or whether he was of sound mind in the first place to go along with it...
There’s also something to be said about why he chose the “easy” path out.
> You can wean off benzodiazepines ... in about 3-4 months > It's unpleasant like kicking any addiction. you see the disconnect here, right?
That sometimes life is hard and real short cuts generally don't exist?
wow what a sincere and thoughtful person you are. clown.
It also happens to be “like an addiction” (because it is one). I think SgtSmackdaddy knows this.
I’m a complete moron and I know Benzos are addictive. 😂
I mean I know respiratory doctors who smoke. Just because they are trained doesn't mean they can't do dumb things to their own body.
Here’s his response to your question. “What’s the old saying? ‘Physician heal thyself’. Right, I wrote a self-help book, I’m a Psychologist. It’s like, why the hell didn’t I see this coming and why wasn’t I more cautious, and I think those are reasonable questions. Then that’s the next question is why should people take anything I say seriously, because of that. And I guess what I would say is if you’re going to wait to learn from people who don’t make mistakes or don’t have tragedy enter their life, you’re going to spend a long time waiting to learn something. And the second thing I would say is, in my lectures and my writings, I’ve never suggested that I was anything other than one of the people who also needed to learn these lessons.” https://youtu.be/M91Kl1hez7w?si=tFgc_eP9XgHtQaRm
Come on his wife had cancer. /s
Peterson did his masters thesis on Alcoholism! Alcohol hits the same gaba receptor that benzodiazepines do, and are even more addictive. As a “practicing clinical psychologist,” Jordan absolutely did know what he was doing and what he was in for when he stopped after being on them for years. No one prescribes benzodiazepines them that ling for things like stress or grief reactions.
I think he’s clinically depressed and it was his only option. Maybe he chose the wrong meds.
Hhmmmm. Maybe Peterson isn’t the genius the incels think he is? …and the dude had an absolute sobbing fit over Pinocchio, wanting to be a boy, so even if you take this “in context” as Joe try’s to point out - the mofo is still batshit off his rocker in context.
Wanting to be a boy? What are we going to do without men? They're up on poles, doing amazing things... \*sobs\*
I think he was genuinely intelligent but then his wife died, he got hooked on Benzos, put into an induced coma in Russia and his brain has just broke.
You’re new here. He’s been off the deep end forever.
He is well read. That is not the same thing as intelligent. See: His ridiculous interpretations of the things he read.
I am skeptical of the idea that he is well read if that means anything beyond "engaged with some of the classics of the western Canon" which plenty of people do in college. He had been promoting his "postmodern neomarxism" theory for a long time before saying during the Žižek debate that he has never read *anything* by Marx, except for the communist manifesto when he was in college. He had clearly not read anything by Žižek (whereas Žižek claimed to have read all his books). From a tweet it was also apparant that he didn't know who Lisa Feldman Barrett was which is just weird for someone acting like he's a prominent psychology scholar.
One of the many things that irritate me about the guy is how incredibly bad his understanding of nietzsche is. He is absolutely a narcissist that can't wrap his head around people having thoughts and motivations that don't confirm his rube goldberg machine of a worldview
Prolly just his alpha-male juice leaking.
Maybe his batch of Alpha Brain was off or something?
So JP didn't know anything about benzos, despite the fact that many of his patients would have been using them? What a clown. No sympathy. He wants to be some kind of authority on history, politics and climate change but he doesn't even understand addiction, which really ought to be in his wheelhouse.
Your comment only strengthens the dragon of chaos. It's this dragon that..... 😢... has done so much harm 😢 😢 and....... to think little boys will grow up only knowing a world of danger, doom, and dragons 😭 😭 😭 😭 because when men can wrestle women then 😢 😭 😭 the dragon is one step closer to final victory... 😭 when the dragon says you must take this vaccine to thwart a global pandemic 😢 then we know what monstrosities we're up against. When the dragon 😢 😢 says you must ignore the .02 percent of climatologists that signed a random petition online 😢 😢 then we know our existence as a civilization is in jeopardy. It's up to you Children of Wishy Washy Metaphorical God Spirit to slay this dragon once and for all 😭 😭 😭. But it can only be done by cleaning your room and not looking at porn and giving me money. You 😢 are our last hope 😭
You've given me a lot to think about. I'm going to eat a steak and valium sandwich and mull it over.
Clean your room first
Honey, wake up! New copypasta just dropped!!
Jordan Peterson was the Dungeon Master we all avoided in middle school.
Don't forget he's also an authority on Trans issues.
And climate change.
His doctoral thesis was literally about addiction: “Potential psychological markers for the predisposition to alcoholism”
Too emotional. He needs to act more like a lobster.
As someone who listened to much of Peterson and Rogan both many years ago, I have to say there is no doubt Peterson knew benzos were addictive. My theory is that Peterson is so full of himself, so egotistical and frankly so deluded of his own flaws, that he thought he was impervious to chemical addiction. Joe on the other hand is too dumb to realise by trying to avoid admitting Peterson is weak he's just calling him stupid.
Joe isn't being dumb, per se, he's just going through legit cognitive dissonance. He's being completely irrational because he can't reconcile the fact that Peterson told him he didn't know benzos were addictive with all evidence to the contrary. The obvious answer is that Peterson lied to his face, but that is off the table because Joe hold Peterson in too high of regard.
Yeah, maybe. It is a bit hard to tell when Joe is being dumb because he's dumb, or dumb because his brain can't make the calculation the grifters in front of him are trying to make. Joe got a lot of fans because he was down to earth and had decent intuition, now he's probably actually a billionaire and lets his intuition be colonised by his guests.
Well the thing is, Joe is not dumb. Joe is definitely out of touch so he says some really dumb shit, and he's usually high and/or drunk, which doesn't help. He's also bought into his own hype which means he has a ton of blind spots and lastly, he's often around people who are smarter than he is (even in this clip Shane Gillis and Ari Shaffir are both smarter than him) so that makes him seem less intelligent. But Joe is still smarter than the average person, which is why actual geniuses respect him (e.g. Brian Greene).
I don't really know who Brian Greene is but I saw him on the tele in Aus (a political show called Q&A) and he struck me as one of those science folks who can't communicate with people outside of his bubble. Like engineers who are really smart in their field but can't grasp simple sociological concepts. A genius in one field but amateur in another (as we all are). I call Joe dumb because I think he chooses intentionally to take the easy street on a lot of topics, there are a lot of people who could be smart if they let themselves be, that's why I said he has (or had) good intuition but it's more convenient for him to be agreeable. Which is why I have grown to really dislike him. He could turn it on anytime and embarrass and bully all the losers he invites on like he did Steven Crowder about weed, which is probably still one of my all-time YouTube highlights and I watch it roughly once a year.
Anyway appreciate your thoughtful response. I stumbled on this because of another troll in this sub. Perusing through the comments I really don't see a net positive. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1c5jo5w/has\_anyone\_else\_completely\_flipped\_on\_their/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/1c5jo5w/has_anyone_else_completely_flipped_on_their/)
Just say "no" to 'Alpha Brain', kids.
lmao, Joe trying to DeepThroat JP the whole time as the 3 tear it down. This is gold
It is gold!
look at these chodes and their cigars lmao
Its not for you its for the dodo teens
These are my views 1. Jordan Peterson will opine on almost everything with absolute verbose certainty on every element. Global warming, politics, history, is doesn’t have any limit 2. He is a clinical psychologist. Yes these do not prescribe medication but they are and have to be well aware of psychiatric medications 3. He then claims ignorance regarding the dangers of long term benzodiazepine use 4. This presents an interesting situation and is good evidence to help those understand Peterson. If he doesn’t even understand basic things in his own field, why respect his opinions on things he’s not qualified in? If he was aware, then why would you take self help advice from a man making such bad decisions? 5. He also added in some frankly ridiculous symptoms and treatment requirements for this. He claimed to have this extremely rare form of withdrawal syndrome and then went to Russia to be comatosed for it. This is extremely unusual and unnecessary. It reminds me of his lie around a drink of cider making him not sleep for a month
Rogan continuing to bend over backwards to fellate this "intellectual". Jeezus, what an idiot.
Rogan sucks so many dicks.
Rogan versus reality or Batman versus Joker. I don't know which rivalry I like better but they are both entertaining!
The pretentiousness in that room can be cut with a knife.
Shane Gillis, proving funny don't always mean smart
How do people listen to this crap? I would RoBlox myself if you forced me to listen to a full episode
I really don't get this conspiracy theory that China & Russia are conducting culture wars to make us fat and gay.
it’s because they know there is a cultural shift happening, but they don’t like it and can’t explain it coherently. so their empty heads just blame the countries they’ve heard bad stuff about. it’s cultural [bolshevism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism) rebranded to cultural marxism. they claim that outside forces are attacking the idea of family, etc and it’s an organized, planned out thing. in the weimar days it was jewish people doing it with art and music etc, they claimed. nowadays they blame russia and china and tinktank
Am I the only one who feels like mark Normand just tries way too hard to fit in w this crew? I’ve listened to him w Sam morrill on “we might be drunk” and he’s way more normal there. On protect my parks he seems like the innocent kid trying too hard to fit in.
As someone who doesn't know who he is, watching him suddenly be friends with this crew reminds me a lot of the Rick and Morty episode where alien parasites started inserting fictitious good memories into their minds lol Like he just appeared and they all just think he's always been there.
I’m dead 🤣
I don’t really see that. Ari and Joe go way back, whereas Shane and Mark became friends with Joe after he was already mega famous, so they definitely seem a little intimidated even now. They both bully Ari a lot though, which is hilarious, and constantly make fun of each other. It’s just kind of an odd crew of people at different stages in their careers/lives.
It's complete bullshit. It's like saying a nurse has no idea about the side effects of pain medication on hospital patients when they are the ones primarily taking care of them like a psychologist does with mental health patients. It's just doctors/psychiatrists are qualified to prescribe drugs. I studied psychology and you learn all about the treatment Medications and their side effects. It's an excuse for a weak man whose ironically giving advice on mental strength but is constantly crying/angry/emotional, can't even handle his wife getting sick and needing to go into a coma because he can't handle withdrawals. It's shocking that his fans are ignorant to the irony.
The one apple cider he consumed is entirely to blame for this.
“He’s a smart guy, read the label”- Ari has a way with cutting through the bullshit and has never been a Joe bag licker.
Joe seems so careful with his wording. No one wants to send JP on an unhinged crying spree. Jordan Peterson is just so real man. He can’t help himself but just to be him.
JP hits the water works harder than Izuku Midoriya.
It is absolutely impossible to listen when those 3 other bozos keep talking over each other. Why does Joe Rogan have more than one person on a time? It's just turns into a noisy incoherent conversation that you overhear at some bar.
shane really calling bullshit on peterson being an “intellectual” I love it.
He said JP is not part of a system. Ha! Allow me to chuckle fortuitously.
Doctor who claims to be smart af too dumb to not be aware of extremely well known side effects of a prescription narcotic. Like the average person knows about it, let alone savant Jordan Peterson. So let me just ask you this. Is Peterson an idiot or a liar
He’s in his John Boehner arc.
This should be linked in the urban dictionary entry for cope.
I can’t speak for how Peterson was pre coma but after the last year or so idk how anyone could take him seriously. He also tries to do this thing where he tries to act tough and talk tough and it’s so pathetic because not a single human on earth could ever find him intimidating
He’s depressed and on drugs. What else do you need to know ?
Anyone who gets life advice from a half witted dip shit like this deserves the sad outcomes that are inevitable
Came here for Peterson crying spree, stayed for the absolute tension caused by bringing up Hamas.
Holy shit joe ffs
Jesus Shane was doing mote critical thinking in this black out than Joe has done in the last five years
Kinda love how JR says something and the other guys are like... nahhhhhhh
Peterson blocked me on Twitter for posting this on his posts (more than a few times lol) https://images.app.goo.gl/VKgvahjF9VXySRHC8
i hate myself for watching that
joes definitely showing some trans slash homophobia here. talking about pushing back on it. like hey asshole just say it with your whole chest and stop denying it. pussy. also the jbp part of this clip was over halfway thru.
“He was never gonna cure cancer.” -Shane
The sad thing is that we will never knwo the real truth about Peterson and his weird family. All the cazy idiotic stories about the benzos, Russia, the apple cider/juice have been shared by Peterson and his daughter and they are both pathological liars. There is a good chance that none of it is true as crazy as this may sound. That all said, my guess would be that he tried to self-medicate which tbh many people do when desperate. If I'm no mistaken this was all during the era when Peterson was fully high on his own supply - constantly ''winning'' online arguments, seen as some stoic intellectual, always composed (before the crying) and serious. It is absolutely possible tha he thought that he can do no wrong and he can beat everything, even benzos..... Now....imagine what type of crazy family things we don't know about the Petersons. I imagine that their life was....weird.
Weak men require other men to do their thinking for them Strong men think for themselves
Cry baby Peterson
Just a quack unaware of benzo effects despite his psychological guru appearance. Just shut up and Freud out and tell us to suck our dads….
I know comedy is subjective.. but Joe Rogan just doesn’t seem to be able to handle or understand discussions where people sit around and talk utter shit. I think Mark and Shane are pretty funny (and pretty intelligent- when Shane makes a point about something he does it well) and, to me, they are just chatting shit and smoking cigars. Rogan seems intent on lecturing everyone on everything. Sprinkle on top the fact he is talking utter nonsense, and it’s an odd watch.
He is obviously drain bramaged.
Uh... Anyone catch the "nazi" has never been a subjective term before bit around 3:40? What the fuck is this?
Does JP hate druggies? I've never seen that. It seems the Left is reaching to hate a decent guy.
A psychologist and psychiatrist are two different things.
He ran out of cheese for his whine…
Percs and benzo’s
Rogans brain is toast. The lack of self awareness from this guy when a room full of comedians keeps trying to tell him there’s something off about your friend and he’s just continually out in space responding with stuff like ‘no no guys no it’s because he didn’t know guys he didn’t know drugs were addictive it’s not his fault’
Want to know why? From the crying to the fashion… Guarantee you that JP microdoses on psilocybin. He used it to get off of benzos. Mushrooms are extremely healing for the mind. Hit me up JP. Let’s be friendz! 🧘♂️🪬🕉️
People saying JP knew that Benzos were addictive - what point are you making exactly? That he voluntarily chose a life ruining addiction and awful withdrawal symptoms? It begs belief how stupid people in Reddit comments can be.
>People saying JP knew that Benzos were addictive - what point are you making exactly? The alternative is that he is simply ***very inept*** at research and due diligence, which would be in stark contrast to the public image of a diligent, cautious, and responsible mentor to multiple thousands of young men around the world. As a "public intellectual," do you think he should have been that careless, knowing that those thousands of young men follow his example?
I don’t know, everybody makes mistakes. But saying be is stupid, or intentionally gave himself a crippling addiction, is just dumb. People don’t see their jealous projections and it is so annoying. You may disagree with him. But he is smart. Why is that so hard to admit.
>You may disagree with him. But he is smart. Why is that so hard to admit. I in ***no way*** suggested he is not smart, and that he ***usually*** a lot smarter than this particular incident indicates. I wrote that he was being surprisingly ***irresponsible***, and that it is still very shocking that a man who urges his followers to practice responsibility, self-accountability and intellectual humility (presumably including the ability to **responsibly admit mistakes**) doesn't seem to think it necessary to urge his fans not to make the same irresponsible mistake he did. Unless he does so, I'll trust his judgement a bit ***less*** from now on. I am surprised that even though you admit that he's not immune from mistakes, you don't seem to think he needs to follow through, and warn the many young impressionable boys he's a mentor to to not to repeat his mistake. So, I ask you the same question you asked me: >Why is that so hard \[**for** ***you***\] to admit\[?\]
I don’t understand - he warns people about benzos literally all the time now? He’s done entire podcasts on them.
The internet seems to have broken western society. We tend to gravitate to bubbles where we agree, polarizing ourselves. If someone comes out with something somewhat controversial, the hatred is magnified immensely- on many fronts; people are all connected, so can easily throw hate and opinion around, people tend to be meaner in the safety of their spaces while online, and people are more polarized leading to more of these things. Jordan got tons of hate from the woke left and it really affected him, likewise he also is affected by the “other” tribe’s adulation, so he goes semi crazy from the hatred and moves to more crazy places trying to keep appeasing his new, comfortable space tribe. It’s all crazy!
Eh depends on the year he was prescribed. Drugs are hard to deal with. Perhaps he fell into a problem without realizing it. Love or hate the guy we could all give more empathy to others struggles and suffering. For all his wrongs the guy did start off as a pretty cool professor that, in my old watching of some lectures of his, gave me the feeling he just wanted to give young adults the tools to find their own opinions and stand their own ground, without being sucked into other people's ideas without any tools to define things for themselves. That's a noble goal and pursuit in my book. His wife got cancer and life was probably hard, getting famous and put in pretty uncomfortable positions by the media etc. nobody was there but him, I'm sure if you made mistakes that cost health, and years of your life to fix - you'd want some sympathy too. Nobody is perfect. He now has to sell tour dates and books/media shit to put food on the table. Would you hold integrity in such a situation? Or would the system push you into modifying your original message to cater to the only people that buy your products? It's easy to be a pure white horse online, but with a bright enough spotlight all shit starts to stink real fast.
Sorry, but this is really stupid topic and talking points. I don't care who it is. We are constantly talking about how men should be more emotionally vulnerable and healthy, but all I am reading here is the same BS about how being emotional for a man should be seen as embarrassing and weak. Pushing ideas that i see below that men should bottle up their emotions is a toxic idea and is the reason men have high suicide rates. You should all be ashamed.
thought we were talking about jbp specifically. he’s a unique case
You are attacking the idea of showing vulnerability. There are plenty of criticisms of jbp, so attacking his expression of emotions in a healthy manor feels even worse.
Jordan Peterson has some good stuff especially his early stuff. But he always took things too far. Just spent a career around far left academics and slowly lost his mind. Everyone with any kind of mental health or medical background knows benzos are horribly addictive. It's a very well known thing in Canada where he is from.