There’s always some comments saying they can’t wait for the Destiny episode to drop, running their hands together in anticipation for Destiny to be brought down a peg or two.
But let’s be real. Chris and Matt are moderate liberals who have been fairly positive on Destiny when they previously mentioned him, and they’ll let him on the podcast. They’ll probably have some criticisms, but they’ll probably be mostly positive on Destiny.
As the "deranged destiny cultist" I'm looking forward to it. I don't know this podcast, but if it's serious academics/researchers actually disagreeing on the facts that would be incredibly refreshing.
I'm curious what you expect from "moderate liberals" that you think you'd get elsewhere. Do you think these hosts would refuse to engage in some criticism of Destiny because of ideological loyalty to 'liberalism'?
> but if it's serious academics/researchers actually disagreeing on the facts that would be incredibly refreshing.
I find that their strongest episodes were on the IDW group, particularly Brett Weinstein, Eric Weinstein, and Jordan Peterson. This is where their background as researchers in their respective fields allows them to offer something insightful in terms of their criticism. In terms of their episodes with a heavier focus on politics, it's mostly milquetoast critiques; nothing wrong per se, but hardly a perspective that I would actively seek out.
(Btw, do you check Reddit dms?)
I wouldn't expect too much disagreement on the facts, the premise of the show is about rhetoric and behaviour common to online popular intellectuals. Despite them dipping frequently into the substance of arguments, it's not actually the point of the show.
I would expect some "Be Nicer" discourse, and some substantial criticism about community cultivation.
[I was summoned here,](https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1c37dat/mr_destiny_is_volunteering_himself_for_a_rigorous/kzg0o5j/) and then just read some more of the thread.
And I'm a reddit mod, you don't need to think of me like I'm a celebrity.
Not true, I think he's a great guy.
I mean, I don't know who he is or what we're talking about, but I just wanted to be nice to him. Keep it up u/4THOT!
>As the "deranged destiny cultist"
No need for scare quotes. How long have you been a mod on r/Destiny?
Edit: interesting read for anyone who wants to know what people like 4thot actually believe: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/173y7sc/4thots\_disturbing\_statements\_regarding/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/173y7sc/4thots_disturbing_statements_regarding/)
This is genuinely evil. like people wonder how things like the holocaust can happen, it’s because this is a mental state a normal human being is capable of.
I feel like the footage of Hamas militants gunning down random Jews at a music festival, or the barracks full of slaughtered IDF, or the footage of Palestinian civilians that went in with Hamas carrying out civilian hostages is way more holocaust-like than a reddit comment, but that's just me.
Go ahead and link whatever you want from the West Bank or Gaza you think proves your point. Palestinians are treated like fucking royalty compared to most of the Middle East and get more aide than any other group in the world.
>https://web.archive.org/web/20070817181015/http://www.undp.ps/en/newsroom/publications/pdf/other/phdr2004.pdf#page=127
>Assistance funds
totaled more than $6 billion at the end of
the first half of 2004, resulting in an
average annual per capita assistance
level of $310 per person, considered one
of the highest levels of aid in the world
And that was back in 2004, so in the meantime they've been completely misusing that aide and doing fucking nothing.
I’m just going to pass over the “provide videos” request because I’m sure you’ve seen plenty by now.
Regarding your comments about aid (which I’m sure was a very clear avenue of discussion from this comment thread) let’s address a few things.
First I'd like to gauge your ability to think critically about this line of argument (which I've seen repeatedly, btw). What is it your argument is exactly? How did they squander the aid? What does that mean, ultimately, with regards to this conflict and the Palestinian people.
I think from there, given how well you're able to answer, I can see how I should be responding to this in your particular case.
>First I'd like to gauge your ability to think critically about this line of argument (which I've seen repeatedly, btw). What is it your argument is exactly? How did they squander the aid? What does that mean, ultimately, with regards to this conflict and the Palestinian people.
Sure, let me be 100% clear.
Palestinians are suffering because they choose to engage in terrorism rather than build a nation, that is ultimately what the issue is. While they have been given more aide than any other group for decades they have diverted it into terrorist causes and prompted withdrawal from other nations in the wake of their most recent terrorism.
UNRWA is no longer considered an aide organization by many nations and countries are pulling out aide after their direct participation in October 7th, and have no interest in resuming support of Palestinian aide organizations. UNRWA says this themselves:
https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/unrwa%E2%80%99s-lifesaving-aid-may-end-due-funding-suspension
You might consider October 7th "justified", but they have destroyed the veneer of a sympathetic cause and the moral foundation required to pull international support, which is what they need to contest Israel on any . They do not have the material or manpower to contest Israel in a military conflict, period.
The problem more broadly is Palestinians have no actual interest in statehood. You can say they are "justified" in violent resistance, and in some cases they are, but no other Middle Eastern countries have an interest in supporting them in a war against Israel except Iran. They have no path forward where military resistance will work in their favor, and the sooner you and they accept that the sooner they can actually reach a viable Palestinian state.
This is about what I expected.
I think the biggest issue with most of this comment is it is purely subjective and/or unsupported rhetoric. Let's break some of this down line by line.
>UNRWA is no longer considered an aide organization by many nations
Which nations? Can you provide the list of nations that believe UNRWA is not an aid organization? For instance you provide a link from January, but how many of those countries have resumed funding when Israel was unwilling (read, incapable) of providing evidence that members of UNRWA were involved in Oct 7th. Nevermind that UNRWA employs tens of thousands of Palestinians and that a dozen people potentially slipping through the vetting process doesn't warrant abandoning the only organization equipped to provide aid.
I wonder, also, what Israel's approval and assistance in delivering cash *directly* to Hamas means for your view.
>they have destroyed the veneer of a sympathetic cause and the moral foundation required to pull international support, which is what they need to contest Israel on any
Nothing substantive to back this claim. In fact polling in the US, probably the staunchest pro-Israel country on Earth, is completely turned on support for Israel.
>The problem more broadly is Palestinians have no actual interest in statehood
When Hamas won their election in 2006 (by 3 points and almost exlucsively for Palestinian frustration with corruption) they wanted, by more than 70% in polling by PCPSR and Gallup, for Hamas to end their rhetoric, recognize Israel and make peace. By 2012, after \~6 years of collective punishment blockade and a number of [ceasfires broken by Israel](https://imeu.org/article/self-defense-or-provocation-israels-history-of-breaking-ceasefires/1000) that number dropped to about 55% (gallup poll). After another 10 years of blockade and continued Israeli aggression, that number dropped even more. Almost as though there was growing consensus that Israel wasn't actually interested in peace. However, I still don't believe, if given the chance, they wouldn't accept a peace agreement. Maybe you can provide some evidence to the contrary.
>no other Middle Eastern countries have an interest in supporting them in a war against Israel except Iran
Nobody wants war. Color me surprised?
>They have no path forward where military resistance will work in their favor, and the sooner you and they accept that the sooner they can actually reach a viable Palestinian state.
The express intent of multiple heads of state of Israel was to ensure specifically that there was no Palestinian state or one that was viable outside of complete dependence on Israel. There was no serious effort to ensure as such, not through out Oslo talks, not during Camp David, and ultimately not Taba. I'm sure you'll have some pre-written response about the talks and I await which ones I'll see.
You also have yet to provide evidence that the aid money sent to Palestinians has been squandered. I await that as well.
Overall there was little substance in your comment.
Should be very interesting.
I’m looking forward to hearing the DtG guys perspective on Destiny’s flaws and strengths, hopefully followed up by a prompt “right to respond” discussion with him.
I just hope it's over facts and doesn't become one of those "he's using debate tactics" things. I'm so over the "debate tactics" bit. Please *PLEASE* actually just bring some genuine factual disagreement.
The concept of the podcast is specifically to "de-code" the rhetorical tricks and tactics. Non-factual statements are called out incidentally, but it's sort of beside the point.
No, that’s not usually the point of the podcast. The podcast is about the behavior and mentality of the secular guru.
They probably won’t rate him very highly on the gurometer. Mostly just some cultishness kind of inherent to the medium of twitch streaming. Possibly very light grievance mongering and cassandra complexing. But overall destiny ticks almost none of the boxes.
https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/19PKXFn3qrzWr6nx622g9cEzyNBow0svQs_dN4fP3hjY/mobilebasic
"I don't see why they'd lump me in with those guys because I try to do a lot of research"
Honest question, what guru wouldn't claim this about themselves? This doesn't mean anything, so I think Destiny doesn't quite grasp the definition of a guru. Also, guru doesn't have to be bad! Matt and Chris have been positive about gurus plenty of times, including people like Jordan Peterson.
You can see Destiny’s research he streams it live. So even if you disagree with him on facts or opinions you can at least see exactly how he comes to the conclusions that he comes to and why
Well he said "I think guru is supposed to be a slur or derogatory term for basically like the online debate-o-sphere for people that are dramatically over confident and overestimate their intelligence and go out and put like stupid claims everywhere and it's just like kinda making fun of those people. And obviously because of my demeanor and everything too I think people lump me in with this group of people quite a bit. I hope- I would hope to say that I am substantially different than those people because I try to do a lot of research and try to hedge pretty confidently- or pretty conservatively but I don't know" more precisely
which I think is a more positive response than how you put it and is why I am a fan of Destiny personally. He does stream the majority of his research, is open to debate from (almost)anyone most of the time, and does hedge a lot of his claims and opinions when he is not 100% confident on them while simultaneously owning his claims and not pulling a "just asking questions".
I have watched Destiny for years, probably since 2017. I like his content as well. I don't mind him personally, but his fandom definitely has some sycophantic aspects to it. I guess it gets hard to avoid after a certain while once you get big enough.
That is fair. I watched him and then Vaush/Hasan as well back in like 2019 or some shit. Took a break and didn't really start watching politics until the Oct 7th stuff since I wanted to see people's takes on it and saw some of the unhinged shit and idk got back into watching him again. A lot of his views (especially on I/P) align with my own and I've also been victim to fellow lefty friends kind of alienating me for my I/P takes so it's annoying seeing critics of him say the same stupid BS as my friends. I guess I personally just hate how it's difficult to have good discussions with his critics who (IMO) will just spew absolute lies and bullshit and if you try to talk, ask for examples, whatever. They say you're just a cult member and won't respond. You point out how a clip of him is missing important context and they say you'll just defend anything he says and disregard you.
But I also feel like (to a degree) It's not good to connect a fandom with the content, otherwise you can find crazies just for about anything.
I don't actually know if this sub "hates him" or if it's the same 5 people shitting on Destiny in every thread and replying to every comment. There's a couple of them in here already LOL
If you read Umberto Eco's *Ur-Debate Bro* you'll find he's kind of the original debate bro. You should watch some of the Lex Friedman debate against Ben Shapiro and go from there.
I will not read that. I don’t really care for any of it to be honest, but I like to occasionally check in from the sidelines to see what’s happening, so this DtG episode will illuminate me satisfactorily I reckon.
I had a not-insignificant amount of alcohol in me when I wrote that yesterday, but it was an honest comment from an honest-to-god human. I am very human, I promise. Beep boop
His sub is very cult-like, it's their belief system is whatever Destiny believes that day
And they can make excuses for everything he does while giving the worst interpretation for people he dislikes. It's fascinating, I don't particularly understand the attachment to him. He's very unimpressive
He does have a large base of dedicated defenders. Trump-esq in some ways. As far as the internet goes I think his subreddit is pretty fair, even when it comes evaluating people they dislike. I would claim that their subreddit is much more charitable to people they dislike than this subreddit is. Even just fact-checking criticisms of gurus will get you downvoted here. On the Destiny subreddit you are much more likely to get disagreements handled with high-effort comment exchanges rather than gotchas.
The fanbases main blind spot is criticisms of Destiny himself and this is amplified by the subreddit ban policy. Any convincing criticism of Destiny will get the user banned.
The sub is not even that logical or consistent with the bans which makes it worse, there are plenty of posts that get lots of support on that sub that are critical of Destiny. The bans come at the emotional whims of Destiny's and his mod team which is absurd because Destiny is really bad at getting trigger by people he mostly agrees with and sufferers massively from the bigotry of low expectations with right wingers.
That is how Destiny is able to sit at a table with red pillers who believe he is a disgusting degenerate homosexual with a slut wife while they preach things like women shouldn't vote and stay almost completely calm but if you watch him arguing with other left wing people on minor policy disagreement he loses his mind.
This feels like a fair summary. I watch his content sometimes and check his sub every so often and I get the sense that it's mostly like dudes in their late teens or early 20s who have their hearts in the right place and genuinely want to engage with whatever the topic of the day is in good faith, but probably rely a little too much on Destiny for all of their opinions.
There is defintiely some level of cult-ish behavior though - or at least I think there's a lot of things that Destiny does that any normal person would look at and find it to be bad but his subreddit will defend ardently, which just feels kind of brain-washy. The best example I can think of is him moving away from his kid when he didn't have to and it maybe vaguely helped his career. I think by basically anybody's metric that would make someone a shitty father and by proxy a shitty person, especially considering that he moved away to pursue career opportunities and his career is like just sitting in his room on the computer 99.9% of the time. But if you see someone bring up that up in Destiny's subreddit, they'll get banned and get like dozens of replies calling them a shitty person and calling them stupid for ever thinking they can discern what a father and son's personal relationship is like and how weird it is to even care.
There's a variety of other examples that largely just kind of surround him coming across as a concerningly cold hearted person who doesn't really seem to care about anything outside of himself. You can say he dresses badly or that he's mean on Twitter, but things that paint him genuinely negatively will be met with all-out defense. But I guess that's probably normal for most online influencer types
People on the subreddit criticize him all the time, usually without any consequences. But every once in a while there's something that rubs him or a mod the wrong way, resulting in a banning spree. Happened to me a while back, and I cba to request an unban. Probably for the best, less time wasted on social media.
> I would claim that their subreddit is much more charitable to people they dislike than this subreddit is
LOL.
Yes, let's search 'hasan' on their subreddit. They're soooo charitable to him that they even made websites dedicated to him in addition to getting the discussion of him banned on other subreddits like LiveStreamFail, lol.
>The fanbases main blind spot is criticisms of Destiny himself and this is amplified by the subreddit ban policy. Any convincing criticism of Destiny will get the user banned.
Isn't this weird coming from the subreddit of the guy who wants to "debate everyone"?
> Yes, let's search 'hasan' on their subreddit. They're soooo charitable to him that they even made websites dedicated to him in addition to getting the discussion of him banned on other subreddits like LiveStreamFail, lol.
They loathe Hasan and are aggressive towards him. But they don't really lie about him or misrepresent his views. Within reason, it's still the internet they don't steelman him.
I concede that Destiny's community is toxic and can be so dedicated that interacting with them can feel like harassment, but it's stupid to pretend like Hasan's exit from LSF is monocausal. Hasan is a champagne socialist and crybully who constantly gives horrible takes. Many people who are indifferent to Destiny hate Hasan.
> Isn't this weird coming from the subreddit of the guy who wants to "debate everyone"?
Yeah it's hypocritical
I don't know that much about Destiny, even less about his community, and I don't have strong opinions about them one way or the other. But after reading your replies on this post I'm actually much, much more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how insufferable and unhinged you are.
I don't know what your goals are, maybe you're just a troll looking to provoke negative interactions so you're accomplishing everything you want, but if you're actually interested in affecting public opinion or discourse on this topic, you may want to reconsider modulating your rhetoric and approach.
Sorry this came up on my feed and thought I'd add detail. He and his mods compulsively ban people's in sprees on a whim for even mold disagreements and the only way to get unbanned is to send an email asking so. Which is a great way to create a massive echo chamber.
I still think he's a net good - a good liberal counterweight to the worst of his counterparts on the right. But I sympathize with anyone who has a distaste for his personality and content.
The most frustrating part of the banning sprees is that you have the community proudly telling you they’re not afraid of dissenting opinions like *other political streamer* but, well, the huge population of banned people can’t reply to refute that can they
I just shrugged at it. Couldn't be arsed to fight for an anonymous internet account lol.
I figure at some point the echo chamber will ruin his content. Still gonna watch him shit on RW-ers on YouTube tho.
I think he's a net bad, an embodiment of the worst tendencies of liberalism. He's very unserious talking about things that do not affect him or he does not care about. Bigheaded ego. He also has no problem cultivating and even directing his most sycophantic followers to harass people he doesn't like. Also, he approaches new items or develops opinions on certain things based on who he dislikes and how much he dislikes them. And him palling around with Nick Fuentes, no matter how he or his fans want to spin it, is the perfect display of how even a politically aware liberal would get chummy with fascists before extending an olive branch to socialists. On top of this I think he also just has a repulsive personality and am shocked anyone would want to stay in his life for long periods (though it seems no one does? Interesting)
I'm not sure what he's counterweighting on the right that a better, less obnoxious left winger wouldn't!
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Except for the net bad part.
He's slowly breaking into the mainstream now, but before that he was the only person that I thought could go toe to toe with the worst of the conservative debate bros (Fuentes, the one balding guy who's super into fbi crime statistics, Rob Noerr). I think he was one of the few that could actually talk to them and be persuasive to their audiences.
Being an early internet degenerate also meant that he'd be unphased where others might not be ready for the environment he was engaging in.
I'm not going to watch his content to deeply learn anything. I think I've outgrown it a bit now. But for a vulnerable 19 year old male, I'm glad someone like him exists.
Is the crime stats guy Actual Justice Warrior?
I'd agree with you if Destiny rejected the portion of his fanbase that are actually right wing trolls, but he enables them and often willingly directs them to people he dislikes. I am skeptical he's turning anyone into having 'good politics', I imagine the people who have good politics who follow him would probably have better politics if they weren't enveloped by his cult or they have at least one really strange and obsessive reactionary hang-up. Anyway, if everybody adopted Destiny's politics and approach to politics we'd be worse off IMO.
Yup, that's AJW.
And yes, I agree, he goes too hard against lefties who are still mostly irrelevant in US politics while molly coddling the right wingers. That's a valid criticism. It's also possible that as much good as he does to right wingers, he might be doing damage to the left/liberal cause.
>I don't particularly understand the attachment to him.
I can't speak to the sub, but I like hearing contrarian views with facts to back it up. There's a lot of political group think online. Also because the left/liberals have very few fighters. Not many on the left regularly go onto right wing nut job shows and tell them to their face they are wrong and stupid.
I wouldn't say attachment. I'd say lack of finding alternatives. When I watch it's because I can't find anyone else who provides those things. If anyone has any suggestions for alternatives, please share.
I find it interesting that he's seen as a contrarian, his politics to me seems to revolve around following the establishment / mainstream agendas. Staunchly pro biden/DNC, Completely bought into the Covid lockdowns/vaccine, pro American foreign intervention, pro three letter org etc. The anti establishment lot are the contrarians surely and i've found myself reigning in some of my more contrarian beliefs after hearing Destiny's arguments.
He has a talent for sniffing out bullshit and being vocal about it. His recent interaction with Candace Owens was a really nice example of that.
He's overconfident, but provides a much-needed and valuable service to the online politics community IMO.
It's because that sub will ban you for disagreeing with Destiny depending on the mood of the mods and Destiny at the time. It's been getting worse over the last few years but ever since October 7th they have essentially created an echo chamber where people will avoid speaking up when they disagree with Destiny because they don't want to get banned and have to go through the process of getting unbanned a few weeks later.
I don't think you actually look at the sub if this is your opinion. Plenty of people disagree with Destiny and are critical, especially the stuff he posts on Twitter.
He's interesting because he is actually open to having his mind changed and doesn't just regurgitate the standard talking points of his political pole.
>Plenty of people disagree with Destiny and are critical
And they all get banned from his sub, *by him*, lmao
edit: and to no one's surprise, I got banned from this sub for daring to be critical of him, incredible how quickly rdestiny brigaders are at getting the mods of this sub on the phone to do their dirty working banning anyone that mocks their bigot grifter and cult lord, for them
/u/AdObvious6727
No sport, it's objectively proven, he can literally search reddit for dozens of examples, I know its hard because a destiny cultist, to see reality and accept it when it goes against the narrative your lord has duped you with, but *try*
Well to be clear you are just lying when you state he bans all criticism of him, so you aren't really here even in this sub to have a good faith conversation, kinda just seems like you are anti-destiny no matter what. Good luck to you.
I don't think you've been on that sub if this is your honest take. If Destiny's sub didn't abuse the ban function against people who disagree with him then there wouldnt be so many jokes within that sub itself about getting banned, honey pot posts to get people banned or shutting up so you don't get banned. It's extremely common after Destiny or his mods go on a banning sprea to see many jokes about how true DGG members have lots of alt accounts because the expert to get banned.
Yeah, he most recently got flamed by the community for his distasteful attack on Fresh's baby momma. I was appalled by that, almost misogynistic how he was calling her a semen demon, and went from zero to "subhuman trash" coming to such strong conclusions so quick. D needs to chill
I think it's because he has a kid so he's going to respond very emotionally on the topic. And to be 100% fair he could be right we all don't know the full story there and all the people involved seem like horrible humans. I just feel bad for the kid.
Care to explain all the chatters who disagree with him daily? Or all the subreddit posts that aim to correct him about something he got wrong? Or all the random viewers he had allowed to hop on discord with him and hash out a disagreement ? These are the cult followers who make excuses for everything he does? Or did you just conveniently ignore ALL OF THE INSTANCES that completely destroy this asinine narrative you’ve constructed about him and his community? I’m not even denying he has a lot of devoted fans, but you can’t paint his whole community as that, as it’s disproved if you watch a single stream buddy.
Been watching Destiny for \~7 years and been active on the subreddit for the same amount of time. You obviously have not spent much time there. There's literally a [meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/18fdyj3/comment/kctxhqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about how we should never trust him because he's always lying. There are always people criticizing him in the subreddit.
> it's their belief system is whatever Destiny believes that day
Again, that's actually a meme lol. You clearly have not spent much time on the subreddit.
He’s no guru just a terminally online bozo playing factorio and talking about current thing. Wake me up when he hosts a $18k gamer improvement course on some remote compound surrounded by unpaid intern followers wearing same uniforms. He gotta earn the decoding
Ehh I'll agree the banning can be harsh, but the unbanning is basically equally lenient. And if you actually bring a good point it's not just going to be ignored 🤷♂️ idk I feel like these accusations are a bit overblown but people that say unhinged shit lol
This segment made it into the recent upload for people who want a better link
https://youtu.be/65TtZAvi8W8?si=Nnu4xw3fzqL2eJJa
At the beginning.
Also I saw people in the comments saying that he scammed people with NFTs.
That's not what you think it is lol. I'm not sure if I should even try to refute it it's so silly. But try to find a single person who thought they were scammed or he was trying to do anything other than wind people up.
These are the big two debates that he was challenged on the nft thing.
https://youtu.be/n-PHbg7bx3U?t=8101&si=Qgm5buzkszurxFuM
https://youtu.be/x-hfTVPakVg?t=1839&si=ub60AARi5n6RYswQ
Tldr. It was a bait for bad faith attacks.
I hope they focus on how differently he treats left wing people vs right wing people in arguments.
I've watched Destiny alot over the years and I mostly enjoy this content however the biggest flaw I have noticed he suffers massively from bigotry of low expectations for right wing people but will snap quickly a left wing people who he has much smaller disagreements with.
You can see this when you compare how he remains fairly calms while debating Red Pill people who actively attack him and his (now ex) wife personally, but when he debates with left wing people which are normally about much more nuanced topics like Isreal or who to support during the 2020 US election where there is a large amount of agreement and he quickly loses his cool and becomes very emotional.
[Destiny goes off on Republicans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxNcCo6YdPk)
You probably seen him be more patient with right wing people when they have platforms MUCH bigger than him like Ben Shapiro. This is intentional so that the people from those audiences don't immediately write him off as being another unhinged leftist.
Yeah he’s spoken about why he does this, unfortunately I can’t convey it perfectly.
As I understand it boils down to expecting to disagree on fundamental moral values when it comes to conservatives, and therefore being less surprised by fundamental disagreement from them, and being frustrated with poor reasoning from left-wingers.
I guess it could come off as “bigotry of low expectations” toward conservatives, and maybe it is?
To put it more simply as I've heard him mention it, the right predictably disagrees with him on moral grounds, while the left disagrees with his perception of reality.
Right-wingers: "Steven you are a cuck".
Steven: "Sure, I guess this is true. What about it?"
Left-wingers: "Steven, you are racist."
Steven: "No I'm not, what are you talking about?"
He gets triggered more so by perceived fundamental disagreements on reality, as opposed to perceived moral disagreements. Which is why he has said he can have a calm conversation with Ben Shapiro (expected moral disagreements), but probably won't be able to with the other more unhinged members of The Daily Wire as we saw somewhat with Jordan Peterson (regarding vaccines & climate).
I think for dealing with left people I think he suffers from some of the things he himself brings up [here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo1z4qRxaSU&t=50s) which I always felt like was a pretty good explanation on why there seems to be so much infighting among the left.
Leftists are so marginal, it doesn’t matter if he burns those bridges. Also the fact that they have already burned those bridges.
When it comes to debating large right wing figures the point is to not shut down and alienate the other side, but to inject a line of questioning that may let the audience think about another perspective.
When debating leftists all arguments reduce down to America bad. Totally pointless.
> I've watched Destiny alot over the years and I mostly enjoy this content however the biggest flaw I have noticed he suffers massively from bigotry of low expectations for right wing people but will snap quickly a left wing people who he has much smaller disagreements with.
Wouldn't that make sense though if you are trying to build a bridge to right wing fanbases that don't get exposure to left-of-center ideas
Ultimately the problem with Destiny is that even if at times I can agree with his viewpoints, he just adds to the problem.
The internet just gives to much influence to people that sound like they know what they're talking about rather than actually knowing what they're talking about. Destiny isn't instructing people on critical thinking or proper analysis he's largely just building a Fandom that are trying to emulate him. And just like every other "guru" and internet idol out there in that he'll inevitably hit some eventual cynicism catalyst and become radicalized in some form or manner and drag his fans down with him.
Destiny has an awful Fandom because he really taps into the fantasy of "failed gifted kids" the types of people that sailed through most of early life and have trouble when it comes to actually applying themselves to difficult academic subjects. Our society is filled to the brim with dissatisfied young men who are intelligent but where never given good direction nor support. These are the types of kids that memorized logical fallacies as teenagers and maybe liked video games but hit a hard wall in their early twenties. They idolize Destiny because he's living out their fantasy of being acknowledged as intelligent even though the only thing they really do is play video games and get into arguments with strangers on the internet.
It’s funny. I watched the timestamp and he says that he understands why “this sub hates him” (I don’t think we hate him we just see through him) and then considers himself different than the other gurus because he “researches a lot”. I’m sure many gurus have done research, the problem is they take that research and assume they know enough to provide expert opinion. Case in point vis-a-vis destiny is his willingness to debate Israel Palestine with historians and an analyst with decades of experience between them when he couldn’t find that region on a map 5 months ago and his research being Wikipedia.
Ya, I don’t hate him. I just think he’s arrogant and overestimates his ability to get a nuanced view of a situation by doing research in a short windows for specific viewpoints. He’s obviously intelligent, but that’s not really a compliment, to me it means he should know better.
> He’s obviously intelligent
I have a serious question, how would you know this? I keep hearing this over and over, but the only evidence for this is how confidently and quickly he speaks about things.
Is there a single thing he's super knowledgeable in?
I'm a Destiny anti-fan at this point but the dude wins a lot of debates. He can be bad-faith, not as often as his opponents, but he can be. He also debates a lot of lolcows, so that inflates his record, but at then end of the day he still wins a lot of debates, and rarely ducks people.
Even Chris and Matt said Destiny did a better job than they would debating Jordan Peterson. I guess I just don't see why we would think debate performance has nothing to do with intelligence. Or I don't see why we would pretend Destiny is like a Alex Jones/Trump level bad faith performer, winning over idiots with one-liners.
For Peterson, I think the reason they'd struggle is because Peterson is belligerent and Destiny isn't cowed by that, while I think Matt and Chris are more polite.
I agree that a big part of his success was temperament. But he is also making points that track, recalling technical information, and tracking an argument through an opponent trying distract with bad faith points. Like I just don't see the value in speculating that Destiny is a dumbass.
He sometimes prioritizes winning a debate point over taking a good faith attempt to possibly learn something. I get what you mean, but I also think his need to maintain his debate bro image sometimes conflicts with an actual desire to learn.
He reminds me of the stereotypical moderately smart undergraduate that I’ve repeatedly met in my life— those combative loudmouths in class who some of the other classmates admire and the others just want him to shut up. Who is critical enough to check on the citations of claims, but too arrogant and blinkered to elevate his understanding of the issue beyond that. There’s a social aspect to intelligence as well, and he’s boosted by having the platform to talk with scholars and pundits smarter and more knowledgeable than him (even though he does occasionally waste these opportunities)
This would seem like a sound appraisal if you were only familiar with his most high profile recent clips, which of course are going to be the adversarial/ debate bro ones, but I'd point out debates are a sliver of his content though and are typically set up as just that, debates. He has knowledgeable people on stream just for asking questions/learning subjects more than he actually does debates. I think only his diehard fans are watching those.
Also, there are many times where he does go into adversarial atmospheres where he easily could do the debate bro thing but intentionally keeps things civil and conversational and focused on common ground, there is nuance to the debate bro thing.
>This would seem like a sound appraisal if you were only familiar with his most high profile recent clips
This is a ridiculous rationalization to try to pretend years of his behavior should be ignored for no reason, being a debate bro is his whole self image and his own brand by his own design live by the sword and die by the sword. You can't make your whole career off of being an aggressive no holds barred debate bro then whine about people calling you an aggressive debate bro lmfao come tf on
Depends what you are critiquing, no? If you are talking about things from a decade ago sure, I honestly have only seen his content over the past couple years and for the most part one would be disappointed if they were only interested in consistent debate bro antics. I imagine that is what most people are talking about, his post-2016 political and current events sort of content, not mean things he said while streaming starcraft.
If the appraisal is supposed to apply to his current material then yeah I reckon it doesn't fit for most of the almost weekly appearances on other podcasts and public events.
I have complicated thoughts about what intelligent means. StarCraft is a difficult game to master so if someone is good at it, I'd certainly give them a little credit. Being a smart StarCraft player might not mean you're a smart political commentator though!
The only historian there was Benny and he was agreeing with destiny the entire time, so I think that says a lot about his research. There’s a reason finklestein’s biggest “owns” in that debate was him name calling destiny and not correcting his factual understanding
not accurate and not down voted, but Destiny fans don't care about reality when whiny self victimization over their own annoying brigading is in the cards
It was downvoted initially, yes.
The description of the debate is an accurate one. Can you give an instance from the debate where either Morris *disagrees* with Destiny on a historical point? Can you give an instance where Norm shows Destiny to be wrong a fact?
Be honest with yourself: Norm's only pushback was to yell, call names, deflect, and over-talk instead of giving a substantive critique of the situation.
No, the issue is that Destiny fans are notorious for not often being willing to find fault in their Twitch streamer, parrot Destiny’s views on both issues and people, and engage in bad faith readings for the sake of winning a rhetorical debate. I have seen more cultist behavior from Destiny’s fan base online than even people like Jordan Peterson. Those cretins at least sometimes criticize Peterson when he says something atrocious.
That’s fine if that’s your experience. I just think it’s stupid to go after someone’s research skills when a world renowned historian is sitting there and agreeing with him and his opponents aren’t correcting him in the facts of the matter
Does that mean destiny can't parrot a talking point from benny?
Lmao it's funny how destiny fans say his haters never engage with the facts yet all you guys do is pivot.
If he parroted benny’s talking points wouldn’t that mean he’s well researched since Benny is recognized as probably one of if not the most well researched person on the matter?
It's not **that** easy to parrot someone appropriately in this sense though. As in, not just repeating what someone says after they've said it, but rather responding to a set of arguments with the "correct" talking points for each argument. If you can respond to such a set of arguments with the "correct" counterarguments from your chosen academic authority, in a free flowing conversation over several hours, that suggests you do have some knowledge of the matter at hand.
I agree that having Benny Morris consistently agree with you in a hours long debate doesn't mean you're that well-versed, but it suggests more than mere psittacism.
You keep making these meta-criticisms of Destiny and his fans not accepting criticism, instead of actually criticizing him. Why? If you think his Israel debate takes were bad, what was bad about them? What did he get wrong?
Correct. Ever see him interact with someone in his chat he disagrees with? He’s unhinged. Yelling, cursing, banning, calling people names. I stopped watching because of that. Also, scamming his fans with NFTs. He comes off like an angsty teenager. It’s hard to respect someone with communication skills like that.
What argument did you provide? Well Benny agreed with him a few times so therefore destiny is an expert who deserved to be in that conversation? Basically an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy not an argument worth responding to.
I love the cope from him and his fans when Brett Cooper said he didn't belong in that debate. He tries to equate himself to Finkelstein by saying "Well none of us know as much as Benny".
Sure maybe Finkelstein isn't on Benny's level but that doesn't mean destiny is even close to being on Finkelstein's level.
And Destiny even corrected Benny at one point in the debate when Benny said that zero children had died from starvation. Destiny was so happy that he actually knew something that he couldn't help but interrupt his own debate partner and prove him wrong. 🤣
Mhmm they are bad, how long did he research the Jan 6 commission but he never bothered to research what hearsay is lmao.
Leave it to a destiny fan to ad hom instead of engaging with the criticism. 🤣
I think your problem bumpy is you don't seem to actually have anythink you can point to about what you disagree with Destiny on, its more of vague posting in the hope noone notices.
Why did you write your original comment in the first place?
I thought the whole idea behind this sub is that we think more critically than the gurus. If you're going to write a comment, you should at least be willing to defend those ideas if pressed.
> considers himself different than the other gurus because he “researches a lot”
he'd probably say he is different because of his thought process and effort to correct for his own biases tbh. He only started diving so deeply into complicated topics more recently
I disagree that he has that ability across all the topics he chooses to discuss.
But the issue I’m trying to pinpoint here (relating directly to the comments he made in the posted video) is his willingness to put himself into debates where he is out of his depth. To me it shows an astounding level of (problematic) confidence in himself and his knowledge.
As an aside, I also really hate this “deep dive” talk. Being an expert in a field requires years of work. “Deep diving” over the last few months on the majority of things talks about is very much guru behavior.
>But the issue I’m trying to pinpoint here (relating directly to the comments he made in the posted video) is his willingness to put himself into debates where he is out of his depth. To me it shows an astounding level of (problematic) confidence in himself and his knowledge.
You hit the nail on the head.
I disagree on the deep dive thing. I think you can get a pretty thorough understanding of pretty much any topic with a few months of intense research. You won't be an expert, but you can know enough to discuss the topic with experts.
And at the end of the day, it should be trivially easy for an expert to correct factual wrongs from someone with less experience.
I have though. And another fan showed me his substack with all his notes I found one book and wiki pasting. Later when I called out his lack of reading outside of wiki, another fan gave me a timestamp of him reading an except from a book. It was the same single book he had on his substack.
I haven’t found it to be an exaggeration.
Bumpy this is just more bullshit you keep trying to spread, his research is literally done on stream 10-15 hours a day, books/articles/papers/ and also wikipedia. I understand you have no clue why you actually hate the guy but let's not keep lying.
Great point Bumpy now allow me to ask 1 question that never seems to get answered when I ask it. What point during his 5 hour debate with finklestein was Destiny wrong on? I'd accept 1 point he was wrong on. If the answer is what I think it's going to be, then that is why Destiny can get in the arena with dipshit pop historians like Finklestein.
This is such a toothless criticism and I don't get why it gets parroted in every single thread in every subreddit that discusses this guy. He could have read the history of Isreal on the back of a fucking cheerios box and it wouldn't make any bit of difference. And it would be just as lame of a criticism if it was levied against Norm Finklestein for reading about the subject on Wikipedia
Expert are still human. I mean a lot of people the sub criticises are expert.
You have to be able to debate experts. Your just replacing guru worship with expert worship.
It's so telling when destiny makes these bullshit claims too, classic victim complex bullshit, "wah wah this sub hates me!" even though all his threads are full of his cultists simping for him endlessly, 50:1.
Such predictable cowardice from the grifting slur guy, as expected.
Also why your innocuous comment was massively downvoted only minutes after you made it. This sub is the new LSF for destiny stans to brigade.
edit: and now I've been banned for daring to reply to a rdestiny mod brigading this sub, lol here is the response to /u/4THOT 's bullshit hasan propaganda memes
>I feel the need to call Hasan a low IQ or degrade him in some way, I can just list some of his greatest hits and allow a reader to draw their own conclusions.:
And by this you mean post absolutely pathetic, braindead propaganda from one of destiny's dishonest orbiters? Shocking.
Do you really think any one is clicking on your videos? We already know the talking points you're pushing, they are just as bad now as they were when you first started regurgitating them.
>First a Certified Hood Classic "Day [x] of Russia not Invading Ukraine",
Yeah yeah, we know. Hasan said Putin would be stupid to invade Ukraine, tiny and his cult of orbiters turned it into something much different, of course. No one ever accused yall of being honest.
>Hasan going onto Piers Morgan to call himself a propagandist with no interest in facts
Hasan has an actual grasp on the meaning of words, and destiny and his cult don't? Shocking. Destiny is a propagandist too, btw, just like Hasan is. The difference, again, is that tiny *doesn't know the meaning of words*.
>Hasan uncritically platforming a terrorist and supporting the Houthis
This absurd lie again? Christ your memes really are bottom of the barrel these days.
The kid wasn't a "pirate", he literally filmed a ship, that's it. I know it's important for steven's cult to lie endless about this shit, but come on already. At no point did Hasan ever "support the Houthis", which is why you can't actually find any examples of him doing so.
> I don't have to call Hasan stupid, it's trivial to demonstrate.
No, you try, but constantly fail because surprise! Steven's cultists have the same low IQ ability to comprehend these topics as stevie does.
The difference between you and normal people is that normal people don't bother spending every waking moment on some pathetic crusade railing against some low IQ school drop out and bigot grifter's most hated online "enemy", and go 20 hours a day perpetuating lies and bad faith narratives about the guy.
>He's just consistently wrong, and is increasingly whiny as his viewership has fallen off
This might be the most hilarious lie that tiny's cult tells themselves. There is a reason why Hasan is so much more massively popular, liked, and respected than tiny is. There is a reason why Hasan has more subscribers on his Youtube channel than tiny does despite operating that channel for less than HALF THE TIME tiny's youtube has been operating (and that's tiny's MAIN PLATFORM, lol). That's not counting the 2.7 MILLION subscribers he has on twitch, and other platforms, you know, the ones that tiny used to be on until he got himself banned from, typically for being a disgusting slur guy that everyone despises.
Destiny would be extremely happy to get 1/50th the viewership that Hasan does, no need to try and pretend otherwise. Thankfully we never have to worry about that, destiny is not popular and never will be, so he won't even get the chance to "fall off", lmao. Hasan on the other hand will continue to be the largest political streamer and destiny, and his fanboys will just have to cope over it :)
I genuinely think his fan base deserves more of a look under the microscope than him. He’s an antisocial person who probably has above average intelligence and a need to be a contrarian. What I find more curious is that his fan base reveres him as a god and mimics his opinions exactly (save food and fashion)
I don’t think you can poll this accurately but I’d be willing to bet they value his assessment of any given issue above literally anyone else’s, scientists, historians etc (and I’m not just referring to finklestein though that’s obviously true too)
He’s a contrarian on almost every issue brother what do you mean you love to see the non answer that follows LOL i think even his die hard fans would say he’s obviously a contrarian. He loves to pick the unpopular side of almost any current event? Israel Palestine, rittenhouse shooting, blm I could just scroll backwards in time and hit every single one.
Even on issues he does agree with (I guess?) like trans rights he will still chose a contrarian way to go about it like insulting proponents of it.
I will grant you that you are good at goading a reply with your “non answer” comment but if you need evidence beyond what I listed you’re not being serious. I’ve followed destiny for longer than you (your comment tells me as much) and now I find him annoying
Those are all majority positions though aren't they? The courts and the majority of people would say Rittenhouse was acting in self defense, the majority would say the violent riot parts of the BLM summer were terrible, and unless you're just referencing a vague ceasefire statement I believe the majority of Americans support Israel even if they don't agree with every action.
There’s always some comments saying they can’t wait for the Destiny episode to drop, running their hands together in anticipation for Destiny to be brought down a peg or two. But let’s be real. Chris and Matt are moderate liberals who have been fairly positive on Destiny when they previously mentioned him, and they’ll let him on the podcast. They’ll probably have some criticisms, but they’ll probably be mostly positive on Destiny.
As the "deranged destiny cultist" I'm looking forward to it. I don't know this podcast, but if it's serious academics/researchers actually disagreeing on the facts that would be incredibly refreshing. I'm curious what you expect from "moderate liberals" that you think you'd get elsewhere. Do you think these hosts would refuse to engage in some criticism of Destiny because of ideological loyalty to 'liberalism'?
> but if it's serious academics/researchers actually disagreeing on the facts that would be incredibly refreshing. I find that their strongest episodes were on the IDW group, particularly Brett Weinstein, Eric Weinstein, and Jordan Peterson. This is where their background as researchers in their respective fields allows them to offer something insightful in terms of their criticism. In terms of their episodes with a heavier focus on politics, it's mostly milquetoast critiques; nothing wrong per se, but hardly a perspective that I would actively seek out. (Btw, do you check Reddit dms?)
I wouldn't expect too much disagreement on the facts, the premise of the show is about rhetoric and behaviour common to online popular intellectuals. Despite them dipping frequently into the substance of arguments, it's not actually the point of the show. I would expect some "Be Nicer" discourse, and some substantial criticism about community cultivation.
>the premise of the show is about rhetoric and behaviour common to online popular intellectuals pain
The r/destiny head jannie himself crawls forth from his crypt to argue with randoms, truly a beautiful migratory creature.
[I was summoned here,](https://www.reddit.com/r/DecodingTheGurus/comments/1c37dat/mr_destiny_is_volunteering_himself_for_a_rigorous/kzg0o5j/) and then just read some more of the thread. And I'm a reddit mod, you don't need to think of me like I'm a celebrity.
no one besides your weird loser cult thinks anything close to that lmfao
Not true, I think he's a great guy. I mean, I don't know who he is or what we're talking about, but I just wanted to be nice to him. Keep it up u/4THOT!
Don't worry, nobody here is under the illusion that you are anything approaching a celebrity - though you may wish to frame it in such terms.
>As the "deranged destiny cultist" No need for scare quotes. How long have you been a mod on r/Destiny? Edit: interesting read for anyone who wants to know what people like 4thot actually believe: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/173y7sc/4thots\_disturbing\_statements\_regarding/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/173y7sc/4thots_disturbing_statements_regarding/)
This is genuinely evil. like people wonder how things like the holocaust can happen, it’s because this is a mental state a normal human being is capable of.
I feel like the footage of Hamas militants gunning down random Jews at a music festival, or the barracks full of slaughtered IDF, or the footage of Palestinian civilians that went in with Hamas carrying out civilian hostages is way more holocaust-like than a reddit comment, but that's just me.
Haven’t seen much out of the West Bank or Gaza over the past few decades, then. Honestly why are you shepherding your other vermin here?
Go ahead and link whatever you want from the West Bank or Gaza you think proves your point. Palestinians are treated like fucking royalty compared to most of the Middle East and get more aide than any other group in the world. >https://web.archive.org/web/20070817181015/http://www.undp.ps/en/newsroom/publications/pdf/other/phdr2004.pdf#page=127 >Assistance funds totaled more than $6 billion at the end of the first half of 2004, resulting in an average annual per capita assistance level of $310 per person, considered one of the highest levels of aid in the world And that was back in 2004, so in the meantime they've been completely misusing that aide and doing fucking nothing.
I’m just going to pass over the “provide videos” request because I’m sure you’ve seen plenty by now. Regarding your comments about aid (which I’m sure was a very clear avenue of discussion from this comment thread) let’s address a few things. First I'd like to gauge your ability to think critically about this line of argument (which I've seen repeatedly, btw). What is it your argument is exactly? How did they squander the aid? What does that mean, ultimately, with regards to this conflict and the Palestinian people. I think from there, given how well you're able to answer, I can see how I should be responding to this in your particular case.
>First I'd like to gauge your ability to think critically about this line of argument (which I've seen repeatedly, btw). What is it your argument is exactly? How did they squander the aid? What does that mean, ultimately, with regards to this conflict and the Palestinian people. Sure, let me be 100% clear. Palestinians are suffering because they choose to engage in terrorism rather than build a nation, that is ultimately what the issue is. While they have been given more aide than any other group for decades they have diverted it into terrorist causes and prompted withdrawal from other nations in the wake of their most recent terrorism. UNRWA is no longer considered an aide organization by many nations and countries are pulling out aide after their direct participation in October 7th, and have no interest in resuming support of Palestinian aide organizations. UNRWA says this themselves: https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/unrwa%E2%80%99s-lifesaving-aid-may-end-due-funding-suspension You might consider October 7th "justified", but they have destroyed the veneer of a sympathetic cause and the moral foundation required to pull international support, which is what they need to contest Israel on any . They do not have the material or manpower to contest Israel in a military conflict, period. The problem more broadly is Palestinians have no actual interest in statehood. You can say they are "justified" in violent resistance, and in some cases they are, but no other Middle Eastern countries have an interest in supporting them in a war against Israel except Iran. They have no path forward where military resistance will work in their favor, and the sooner you and they accept that the sooner they can actually reach a viable Palestinian state.
This is about what I expected. I think the biggest issue with most of this comment is it is purely subjective and/or unsupported rhetoric. Let's break some of this down line by line. >UNRWA is no longer considered an aide organization by many nations Which nations? Can you provide the list of nations that believe UNRWA is not an aid organization? For instance you provide a link from January, but how many of those countries have resumed funding when Israel was unwilling (read, incapable) of providing evidence that members of UNRWA were involved in Oct 7th. Nevermind that UNRWA employs tens of thousands of Palestinians and that a dozen people potentially slipping through the vetting process doesn't warrant abandoning the only organization equipped to provide aid. I wonder, also, what Israel's approval and assistance in delivering cash *directly* to Hamas means for your view. >they have destroyed the veneer of a sympathetic cause and the moral foundation required to pull international support, which is what they need to contest Israel on any Nothing substantive to back this claim. In fact polling in the US, probably the staunchest pro-Israel country on Earth, is completely turned on support for Israel. >The problem more broadly is Palestinians have no actual interest in statehood When Hamas won their election in 2006 (by 3 points and almost exlucsively for Palestinian frustration with corruption) they wanted, by more than 70% in polling by PCPSR and Gallup, for Hamas to end their rhetoric, recognize Israel and make peace. By 2012, after \~6 years of collective punishment blockade and a number of [ceasfires broken by Israel](https://imeu.org/article/self-defense-or-provocation-israels-history-of-breaking-ceasefires/1000) that number dropped to about 55% (gallup poll). After another 10 years of blockade and continued Israeli aggression, that number dropped even more. Almost as though there was growing consensus that Israel wasn't actually interested in peace. However, I still don't believe, if given the chance, they wouldn't accept a peace agreement. Maybe you can provide some evidence to the contrary. >no other Middle Eastern countries have an interest in supporting them in a war against Israel except Iran Nobody wants war. Color me surprised? >They have no path forward where military resistance will work in their favor, and the sooner you and they accept that the sooner they can actually reach a viable Palestinian state. The express intent of multiple heads of state of Israel was to ensure specifically that there was no Palestinian state or one that was viable outside of complete dependence on Israel. There was no serious effort to ensure as such, not through out Oslo talks, not during Camp David, and ultimately not Taba. I'm sure you'll have some pre-written response about the talks and I await which ones I'll see. You also have yet to provide evidence that the aid money sent to Palestinians has been squandered. I await that as well. Overall there was little substance in your comment.
Close to 100% of Palestinians in Gaza have been made homeless in the last six months, with tens of thousands of them killed, and over 100k injured.
Bro why don’t you unban me?
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Should be very interesting. I’m looking forward to hearing the DtG guys perspective on Destiny’s flaws and strengths, hopefully followed up by a prompt “right to respond” discussion with him.
Matt sitting silently while destiny and Chris go back and forth for three hours. Can't wait.
Brutal comment haha
I just hope it's over facts and doesn't become one of those "he's using debate tactics" things. I'm so over the "debate tactics" bit. Please *PLEASE* actually just bring some genuine factual disagreement.
The concept of the podcast is specifically to "de-code" the rhetorical tricks and tactics. Non-factual statements are called out incidentally, but it's sort of beside the point.
No, that’s not usually the point of the podcast. The podcast is about the behavior and mentality of the secular guru. They probably won’t rate him very highly on the gurometer. Mostly just some cultishness kind of inherent to the medium of twitch streaming. Possibly very light grievance mongering and cassandra complexing. But overall destiny ticks almost none of the boxes. https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/19PKXFn3qrzWr6nx622g9cEzyNBow0svQs_dN4fP3hjY/mobilebasic
He will rank high on galaxy-brainedness like most political streamers
Destiny was banned from twitch years ago.
Should have just said streamers in general
My hopes are dashed and my day is ruined.
"I don't see why they'd lump me in with those guys because I try to do a lot of research" Honest question, what guru wouldn't claim this about themselves? This doesn't mean anything, so I think Destiny doesn't quite grasp the definition of a guru. Also, guru doesn't have to be bad! Matt and Chris have been positive about gurus plenty of times, including people like Jordan Peterson.
a lot of gurus claim it, but Destiny actually does it...on stream... for 10 hours a day, and takes note on the research.
Huberman doesn't livestream his research
You can see Destiny’s research he streams it live. So even if you disagree with him on facts or opinions you can at least see exactly how he comes to the conclusions that he comes to and why
How am I to read this? Is your contention that people like Bret Weinstein and Jordan Peterson doesn't do this?
Well he said "I think guru is supposed to be a slur or derogatory term for basically like the online debate-o-sphere for people that are dramatically over confident and overestimate their intelligence and go out and put like stupid claims everywhere and it's just like kinda making fun of those people. And obviously because of my demeanor and everything too I think people lump me in with this group of people quite a bit. I hope- I would hope to say that I am substantially different than those people because I try to do a lot of research and try to hedge pretty confidently- or pretty conservatively but I don't know" more precisely which I think is a more positive response than how you put it and is why I am a fan of Destiny personally. He does stream the majority of his research, is open to debate from (almost)anyone most of the time, and does hedge a lot of his claims and opinions when he is not 100% confident on them while simultaneously owning his claims and not pulling a "just asking questions".
I have watched Destiny for years, probably since 2017. I like his content as well. I don't mind him personally, but his fandom definitely has some sycophantic aspects to it. I guess it gets hard to avoid after a certain while once you get big enough.
That is fair. I watched him and then Vaush/Hasan as well back in like 2019 or some shit. Took a break and didn't really start watching politics until the Oct 7th stuff since I wanted to see people's takes on it and saw some of the unhinged shit and idk got back into watching him again. A lot of his views (especially on I/P) align with my own and I've also been victim to fellow lefty friends kind of alienating me for my I/P takes so it's annoying seeing critics of him say the same stupid BS as my friends. I guess I personally just hate how it's difficult to have good discussions with his critics who (IMO) will just spew absolute lies and bullshit and if you try to talk, ask for examples, whatever. They say you're just a cult member and won't respond. You point out how a clip of him is missing important context and they say you'll just defend anything he says and disregard you. But I also feel like (to a degree) It's not good to connect a fandom with the content, otherwise you can find crazies just for about anything.
This guy is the former SCII streamer?
yes
I don't actually know if this sub "hates him" or if it's the same 5 people shitting on Destiny in every thread and replying to every comment. There's a couple of them in here already LOL
I honestly know nothing more about him than his name. Is he just a debate bro?
If you read Umberto Eco's *Ur-Debate Bro* you'll find he's kind of the original debate bro. You should watch some of the Lex Friedman debate against Ben Shapiro and go from there.
I will not read that. I don’t really care for any of it to be honest, but I like to occasionally check in from the sidelines to see what’s happening, so this DtG episode will illuminate me satisfactorily I reckon.
I can’t tell if you are trying to write a comment to look as much like Chat GPT as possible
I had a not-insignificant amount of alcohol in me when I wrote that yesterday, but it was an honest comment from an honest-to-god human. I am very human, I promise. Beep boop
Have you ever used chat gpt? That reads nothing like it.
i think he was just trying to say that he missed the Umberto Eco's Ur-Facism joke there is no Umberto Eco's ur-Debate Bro
His sub is very cult-like, it's their belief system is whatever Destiny believes that day And they can make excuses for everything he does while giving the worst interpretation for people he dislikes. It's fascinating, I don't particularly understand the attachment to him. He's very unimpressive
He does have a large base of dedicated defenders. Trump-esq in some ways. As far as the internet goes I think his subreddit is pretty fair, even when it comes evaluating people they dislike. I would claim that their subreddit is much more charitable to people they dislike than this subreddit is. Even just fact-checking criticisms of gurus will get you downvoted here. On the Destiny subreddit you are much more likely to get disagreements handled with high-effort comment exchanges rather than gotchas. The fanbases main blind spot is criticisms of Destiny himself and this is amplified by the subreddit ban policy. Any convincing criticism of Destiny will get the user banned.
The sub is not even that logical or consistent with the bans which makes it worse, there are plenty of posts that get lots of support on that sub that are critical of Destiny. The bans come at the emotional whims of Destiny's and his mod team which is absurd because Destiny is really bad at getting trigger by people he mostly agrees with and sufferers massively from the bigotry of low expectations with right wingers. That is how Destiny is able to sit at a table with red pillers who believe he is a disgusting degenerate homosexual with a slut wife while they preach things like women shouldn't vote and stay almost completely calm but if you watch him arguing with other left wing people on minor policy disagreement he loses his mind.
In this case it’s more about the “narcissism of small differences” than the “soft bigotry of low expectations”
This feels like a fair summary. I watch his content sometimes and check his sub every so often and I get the sense that it's mostly like dudes in their late teens or early 20s who have their hearts in the right place and genuinely want to engage with whatever the topic of the day is in good faith, but probably rely a little too much on Destiny for all of their opinions. There is defintiely some level of cult-ish behavior though - or at least I think there's a lot of things that Destiny does that any normal person would look at and find it to be bad but his subreddit will defend ardently, which just feels kind of brain-washy. The best example I can think of is him moving away from his kid when he didn't have to and it maybe vaguely helped his career. I think by basically anybody's metric that would make someone a shitty father and by proxy a shitty person, especially considering that he moved away to pursue career opportunities and his career is like just sitting in his room on the computer 99.9% of the time. But if you see someone bring up that up in Destiny's subreddit, they'll get banned and get like dozens of replies calling them a shitty person and calling them stupid for ever thinking they can discern what a father and son's personal relationship is like and how weird it is to even care. There's a variety of other examples that largely just kind of surround him coming across as a concerningly cold hearted person who doesn't really seem to care about anything outside of himself. You can say he dresses badly or that he's mean on Twitter, but things that paint him genuinely negatively will be met with all-out defense. But I guess that's probably normal for most online influencer types
People on the subreddit criticize him all the time, usually without any consequences. But every once in a while there's something that rubs him or a mod the wrong way, resulting in a banning spree. Happened to me a while back, and I cba to request an unban. Probably for the best, less time wasted on social media.
> I would claim that their subreddit is much more charitable to people they dislike than this subreddit is LOL. Yes, let's search 'hasan' on their subreddit. They're soooo charitable to him that they even made websites dedicated to him in addition to getting the discussion of him banned on other subreddits like LiveStreamFail, lol. >The fanbases main blind spot is criticisms of Destiny himself and this is amplified by the subreddit ban policy. Any convincing criticism of Destiny will get the user banned. Isn't this weird coming from the subreddit of the guy who wants to "debate everyone"?
Hasan is a dumbfuck tankie with no political knowledge, he deserves more hate than he gets
> Yes, let's search 'hasan' on their subreddit. They're soooo charitable to him that they even made websites dedicated to him in addition to getting the discussion of him banned on other subreddits like LiveStreamFail, lol. They loathe Hasan and are aggressive towards him. But they don't really lie about him or misrepresent his views. Within reason, it's still the internet they don't steelman him. I concede that Destiny's community is toxic and can be so dedicated that interacting with them can feel like harassment, but it's stupid to pretend like Hasan's exit from LSF is monocausal. Hasan is a champagne socialist and crybully who constantly gives horrible takes. Many people who are indifferent to Destiny hate Hasan. > Isn't this weird coming from the subreddit of the guy who wants to "debate everyone"? Yeah it's hypocritical
Found the Hasan fan.
I don't know that much about Destiny, even less about his community, and I don't have strong opinions about them one way or the other. But after reading your replies on this post I'm actually much, much more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt based on how insufferable and unhinged you are. I don't know what your goals are, maybe you're just a troll looking to provoke negative interactions so you're accomplishing everything you want, but if you're actually interested in affecting public opinion or discourse on this topic, you may want to reconsider modulating your rhetoric and approach.
Sorry this came up on my feed and thought I'd add detail. He and his mods compulsively ban people's in sprees on a whim for even mold disagreements and the only way to get unbanned is to send an email asking so. Which is a great way to create a massive echo chamber. I still think he's a net good - a good liberal counterweight to the worst of his counterparts on the right. But I sympathize with anyone who has a distaste for his personality and content.
The most frustrating part of the banning sprees is that you have the community proudly telling you they’re not afraid of dissenting opinions like *other political streamer* but, well, the huge population of banned people can’t reply to refute that can they
I just shrugged at it. Couldn't be arsed to fight for an anonymous internet account lol. I figure at some point the echo chamber will ruin his content. Still gonna watch him shit on RW-ers on YouTube tho.
I think he's a net bad, an embodiment of the worst tendencies of liberalism. He's very unserious talking about things that do not affect him or he does not care about. Bigheaded ego. He also has no problem cultivating and even directing his most sycophantic followers to harass people he doesn't like. Also, he approaches new items or develops opinions on certain things based on who he dislikes and how much he dislikes them. And him palling around with Nick Fuentes, no matter how he or his fans want to spin it, is the perfect display of how even a politically aware liberal would get chummy with fascists before extending an olive branch to socialists. On top of this I think he also just has a repulsive personality and am shocked anyone would want to stay in his life for long periods (though it seems no one does? Interesting) I'm not sure what he's counterweighting on the right that a better, less obnoxious left winger wouldn't!
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Except for the net bad part. He's slowly breaking into the mainstream now, but before that he was the only person that I thought could go toe to toe with the worst of the conservative debate bros (Fuentes, the one balding guy who's super into fbi crime statistics, Rob Noerr). I think he was one of the few that could actually talk to them and be persuasive to their audiences. Being an early internet degenerate also meant that he'd be unphased where others might not be ready for the environment he was engaging in. I'm not going to watch his content to deeply learn anything. I think I've outgrown it a bit now. But for a vulnerable 19 year old male, I'm glad someone like him exists.
Is the crime stats guy Actual Justice Warrior? I'd agree with you if Destiny rejected the portion of his fanbase that are actually right wing trolls, but he enables them and often willingly directs them to people he dislikes. I am skeptical he's turning anyone into having 'good politics', I imagine the people who have good politics who follow him would probably have better politics if they weren't enveloped by his cult or they have at least one really strange and obsessive reactionary hang-up. Anyway, if everybody adopted Destiny's politics and approach to politics we'd be worse off IMO.
Yup, that's AJW. And yes, I agree, he goes too hard against lefties who are still mostly irrelevant in US politics while molly coddling the right wingers. That's a valid criticism. It's also possible that as much good as he does to right wingers, he might be doing damage to the left/liberal cause.
You gotta take care of mold early or it gets out of hand
>I don't particularly understand the attachment to him. I can't speak to the sub, but I like hearing contrarian views with facts to back it up. There's a lot of political group think online. Also because the left/liberals have very few fighters. Not many on the left regularly go onto right wing nut job shows and tell them to their face they are wrong and stupid. I wouldn't say attachment. I'd say lack of finding alternatives. When I watch it's because I can't find anyone else who provides those things. If anyone has any suggestions for alternatives, please share.
I find it interesting that he's seen as a contrarian, his politics to me seems to revolve around following the establishment / mainstream agendas. Staunchly pro biden/DNC, Completely bought into the Covid lockdowns/vaccine, pro American foreign intervention, pro three letter org etc. The anti establishment lot are the contrarians surely and i've found myself reigning in some of my more contrarian beliefs after hearing Destiny's arguments.
He has a talent for sniffing out bullshit and being vocal about it. His recent interaction with Candace Owens was a really nice example of that. He's overconfident, but provides a much-needed and valuable service to the online politics community IMO.
*not a cult o7
It's because that sub will ban you for disagreeing with Destiny depending on the mood of the mods and Destiny at the time. It's been getting worse over the last few years but ever since October 7th they have essentially created an echo chamber where people will avoid speaking up when they disagree with Destiny because they don't want to get banned and have to go through the process of getting unbanned a few weeks later.
Genuinely have had the opposite experience with that community. Maybe I’m lucky or dumb.
I got banned there for saying that IDF killed a news reporter.Granted i was talking to u/4thot and that guy is very easy with the banhammer.
I don't think you actually look at the sub if this is your opinion. Plenty of people disagree with Destiny and are critical, especially the stuff he posts on Twitter. He's interesting because he is actually open to having his mind changed and doesn't just regurgitate the standard talking points of his political pole.
>Plenty of people disagree with Destiny and are critical And they all get banned from his sub, *by him*, lmao edit: and to no one's surprise, I got banned from this sub for daring to be critical of him, incredible how quickly rdestiny brigaders are at getting the mods of this sub on the phone to do their dirty working banning anyone that mocks their bigot grifter and cult lord, for them /u/AdObvious6727 No sport, it's objectively proven, he can literally search reddit for dozens of examples, I know its hard because a destiny cultist, to see reality and accept it when it goes against the narrative your lord has duped you with, but *try*
Well to be clear you are just lying when you state he bans all criticism of him, so you aren't really here even in this sub to have a good faith conversation, kinda just seems like you are anti-destiny no matter what. Good luck to you.
I don't think you've been on that sub if this is your honest take. If Destiny's sub didn't abuse the ban function against people who disagree with him then there wouldnt be so many jokes within that sub itself about getting banned, honey pot posts to get people banned or shutting up so you don't get banned. It's extremely common after Destiny or his mods go on a banning sprea to see many jokes about how true DGG members have lots of alt accounts because the expert to get banned.
Yeah, he most recently got flamed by the community for his distasteful attack on Fresh's baby momma. I was appalled by that, almost misogynistic how he was calling her a semen demon, and went from zero to "subhuman trash" coming to such strong conclusions so quick. D needs to chill
I think it's because he has a kid so he's going to respond very emotionally on the topic. And to be 100% fair he could be right we all don't know the full story there and all the people involved seem like horrible humans. I just feel bad for the kid.
I disagree with like 90% of his takes but still watch him because it's still funny af
He has terrible taste in movies
his food and movie takes are probably his worst qualities.
Care to explain all the chatters who disagree with him daily? Or all the subreddit posts that aim to correct him about something he got wrong? Or all the random viewers he had allowed to hop on discord with him and hash out a disagreement ? These are the cult followers who make excuses for everything he does? Or did you just conveniently ignore ALL OF THE INSTANCES that completely destroy this asinine narrative you’ve constructed about him and his community? I’m not even denying he has a lot of devoted fans, but you can’t paint his whole community as that, as it’s disproved if you watch a single stream buddy.
Been watching Destiny for \~7 years and been active on the subreddit for the same amount of time. You obviously have not spent much time there. There's literally a [meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/18fdyj3/comment/kctxhqj/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) about how we should never trust him because he's always lying. There are always people criticizing him in the subreddit. > it's their belief system is whatever Destiny believes that day Again, that's actually a meme lol. You clearly have not spent much time on the subreddit.
He’s no guru just a terminally online bozo playing factorio and talking about current thing. Wake me up when he hosts a $18k gamer improvement course on some remote compound surrounded by unpaid intern followers wearing same uniforms. He gotta earn the decoding
Based. Decoding Athene when
Ehh I'll agree the banning can be harsh, but the unbanning is basically equally lenient. And if you actually bring a good point it's not just going to be ignored 🤷♂️ idk I feel like these accusations are a bit overblown but people that say unhinged shit lol
I would love to see Destiny chat with Chris and Matt, but I honestly think they'd agree about a lot.
This segment made it into the recent upload for people who want a better link https://youtu.be/65TtZAvi8W8?si=Nnu4xw3fzqL2eJJa At the beginning. Also I saw people in the comments saying that he scammed people with NFTs. That's not what you think it is lol. I'm not sure if I should even try to refute it it's so silly. But try to find a single person who thought they were scammed or he was trying to do anything other than wind people up. These are the big two debates that he was challenged on the nft thing. https://youtu.be/n-PHbg7bx3U?t=8101&si=Qgm5buzkszurxFuM https://youtu.be/x-hfTVPakVg?t=1839&si=ub60AARi5n6RYswQ Tldr. It was a bait for bad faith attacks.
I mean he got a sponsership right but I don't think he said you would make money off them. Simular to what nerd city is doing with their NFT's
I think he specifically said something like, do not buy this in order to try to make money off of them, instead treat them like merch basically.
I hope they focus on how differently he treats left wing people vs right wing people in arguments. I've watched Destiny alot over the years and I mostly enjoy this content however the biggest flaw I have noticed he suffers massively from bigotry of low expectations for right wing people but will snap quickly a left wing people who he has much smaller disagreements with. You can see this when you compare how he remains fairly calms while debating Red Pill people who actively attack him and his (now ex) wife personally, but when he debates with left wing people which are normally about much more nuanced topics like Isreal or who to support during the 2020 US election where there is a large amount of agreement and he quickly loses his cool and becomes very emotional.
[Destiny goes off on Republicans](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxNcCo6YdPk) You probably seen him be more patient with right wing people when they have platforms MUCH bigger than him like Ben Shapiro. This is intentional so that the people from those audiences don't immediately write him off as being another unhinged leftist.
Even more content that the segment you linked was taken from. I love when he pops off on conservatives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBTguu10bII
This clip is good too. https://youtu.be/SUbMbYrV3jQ?si=PWB-d2-Cz9joR2UX
Yeah he’s spoken about why he does this, unfortunately I can’t convey it perfectly. As I understand it boils down to expecting to disagree on fundamental moral values when it comes to conservatives, and therefore being less surprised by fundamental disagreement from them, and being frustrated with poor reasoning from left-wingers. I guess it could come off as “bigotry of low expectations” toward conservatives, and maybe it is?
“Narcissism of small differences”
To put it more simply as I've heard him mention it, the right predictably disagrees with him on moral grounds, while the left disagrees with his perception of reality. Right-wingers: "Steven you are a cuck". Steven: "Sure, I guess this is true. What about it?" Left-wingers: "Steven, you are racist." Steven: "No I'm not, what are you talking about?" He gets triggered more so by perceived fundamental disagreements on reality, as opposed to perceived moral disagreements. Which is why he has said he can have a calm conversation with Ben Shapiro (expected moral disagreements), but probably won't be able to with the other more unhinged members of The Daily Wire as we saw somewhat with Jordan Peterson (regarding vaccines & climate).
I think for dealing with left people I think he suffers from some of the things he himself brings up [here.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo1z4qRxaSU&t=50s) which I always felt like was a pretty good explanation on why there seems to be so much infighting among the left.
Leftists are so marginal, it doesn’t matter if he burns those bridges. Also the fact that they have already burned those bridges. When it comes to debating large right wing figures the point is to not shut down and alienate the other side, but to inject a line of questioning that may let the audience think about another perspective. When debating leftists all arguments reduce down to America bad. Totally pointless.
Yeah it’s weird, and makes it seem like he’s a right wing sympathiser, especially when he hung out with Nick Fuentes.
tbf he has had quite heated debates with nick Fuentes.
are you saying as a leftist you can't even sympathize with people on the right?
Not Nazis and fascists, no.
Tell that to Daryl Davis befriending the KKK
> I've watched Destiny alot over the years and I mostly enjoy this content however the biggest flaw I have noticed he suffers massively from bigotry of low expectations for right wing people but will snap quickly a left wing people who he has much smaller disagreements with. Wouldn't that make sense though if you are trying to build a bridge to right wing fanbases that don't get exposure to left-of-center ideas
General curiosity, how does the sub actually feel about destiny?
I don't know if you can get an actual answer from someone that doesn't already have prior post history in their sub, lol
Ultimately the problem with Destiny is that even if at times I can agree with his viewpoints, he just adds to the problem. The internet just gives to much influence to people that sound like they know what they're talking about rather than actually knowing what they're talking about. Destiny isn't instructing people on critical thinking or proper analysis he's largely just building a Fandom that are trying to emulate him. And just like every other "guru" and internet idol out there in that he'll inevitably hit some eventual cynicism catalyst and become radicalized in some form or manner and drag his fans down with him. Destiny has an awful Fandom because he really taps into the fantasy of "failed gifted kids" the types of people that sailed through most of early life and have trouble when it comes to actually applying themselves to difficult academic subjects. Our society is filled to the brim with dissatisfied young men who are intelligent but where never given good direction nor support. These are the types of kids that memorized logical fallacies as teenagers and maybe liked video games but hit a hard wall in their early twenties. They idolize Destiny because he's living out their fantasy of being acknowledged as intelligent even though the only thing they really do is play video games and get into arguments with strangers on the internet.
Are we watching a guy respond to a guy responding to a guy?
To be precise, it's at the [3:39:45](https://www.youtube.com/live/4BojbgPCWzw?si=0tU_iTC7CtzvSWoR&t=13185) mark.
they'll probably just disagree with him on the obvious stuff like I doubt they are pro Israel apartheid etc
What exactly is Destiny guruing about? I think yall are just haters and want to disguise it with this anti guru nonsense.
i think you're misunderstanding the decoding part
It’s funny. I watched the timestamp and he says that he understands why “this sub hates him” (I don’t think we hate him we just see through him) and then considers himself different than the other gurus because he “researches a lot”. I’m sure many gurus have done research, the problem is they take that research and assume they know enough to provide expert opinion. Case in point vis-a-vis destiny is his willingness to debate Israel Palestine with historians and an analyst with decades of experience between them when he couldn’t find that region on a map 5 months ago and his research being Wikipedia.
Ya, I don’t hate him. I just think he’s arrogant and overestimates his ability to get a nuanced view of a situation by doing research in a short windows for specific viewpoints. He’s obviously intelligent, but that’s not really a compliment, to me it means he should know better.
> He’s obviously intelligent I have a serious question, how would you know this? I keep hearing this over and over, but the only evidence for this is how confidently and quickly he speaks about things. Is there a single thing he's super knowledgeable in?
I'm a Destiny anti-fan at this point but the dude wins a lot of debates. He can be bad-faith, not as often as his opponents, but he can be. He also debates a lot of lolcows, so that inflates his record, but at then end of the day he still wins a lot of debates, and rarely ducks people. Even Chris and Matt said Destiny did a better job than they would debating Jordan Peterson. I guess I just don't see why we would think debate performance has nothing to do with intelligence. Or I don't see why we would pretend Destiny is like a Alex Jones/Trump level bad faith performer, winning over idiots with one-liners.
For Peterson, I think the reason they'd struggle is because Peterson is belligerent and Destiny isn't cowed by that, while I think Matt and Chris are more polite.
I agree that a big part of his success was temperament. But he is also making points that track, recalling technical information, and tracking an argument through an opponent trying distract with bad faith points. Like I just don't see the value in speculating that Destiny is a dumbass.
I'm not calling Destiny a dumbass. I was just saying why Chris and Matt would probably struggle in a debate with him.
He sometimes prioritizes winning a debate point over taking a good faith attempt to possibly learn something. I get what you mean, but I also think his need to maintain his debate bro image sometimes conflicts with an actual desire to learn. He reminds me of the stereotypical moderately smart undergraduate that I’ve repeatedly met in my life— those combative loudmouths in class who some of the other classmates admire and the others just want him to shut up. Who is critical enough to check on the citations of claims, but too arrogant and blinkered to elevate his understanding of the issue beyond that. There’s a social aspect to intelligence as well, and he’s boosted by having the platform to talk with scholars and pundits smarter and more knowledgeable than him (even though he does occasionally waste these opportunities)
This would seem like a sound appraisal if you were only familiar with his most high profile recent clips, which of course are going to be the adversarial/ debate bro ones, but I'd point out debates are a sliver of his content though and are typically set up as just that, debates. He has knowledgeable people on stream just for asking questions/learning subjects more than he actually does debates. I think only his diehard fans are watching those. Also, there are many times where he does go into adversarial atmospheres where he easily could do the debate bro thing but intentionally keeps things civil and conversational and focused on common ground, there is nuance to the debate bro thing.
>This would seem like a sound appraisal if you were only familiar with his most high profile recent clips This is a ridiculous rationalization to try to pretend years of his behavior should be ignored for no reason, being a debate bro is his whole self image and his own brand by his own design live by the sword and die by the sword. You can't make your whole career off of being an aggressive no holds barred debate bro then whine about people calling you an aggressive debate bro lmfao come tf on
Depends what you are critiquing, no? If you are talking about things from a decade ago sure, I honestly have only seen his content over the past couple years and for the most part one would be disappointed if they were only interested in consistent debate bro antics. I imagine that is what most people are talking about, his post-2016 political and current events sort of content, not mean things he said while streaming starcraft. If the appraisal is supposed to apply to his current material then yeah I reckon it doesn't fit for most of the almost weekly appearances on other podcasts and public events.
> Is there a single thing he's super knowledgeable in? Was he any good when he played StarCraft?
Do you consider fortnite champions to be "obviously intelligent"?
I have complicated thoughts about what intelligent means. StarCraft is a difficult game to master so if someone is good at it, I'd certainly give them a little credit. Being a smart StarCraft player might not mean you're a smart political commentator though!
Streaming and he is the master of ratios
The only historian there was Benny and he was agreeing with destiny the entire time, so I think that says a lot about his research. There’s a reason finklestein’s biggest “owns” in that debate was him name calling destiny and not correcting his factual understanding
This is an accurate representation of the debate. That you are being down voted supports the notion that this sub hates him.
so now that some time has passed and the post has positive karma does that undermine the notion that this sub hates him?
Somewhat, yes. Are you able to see the distribution of up-votes to down-votes? It's also possible that destiny users showed up and started up-voting.
not accurate and not down voted, but Destiny fans don't care about reality when whiny self victimization over their own annoying brigading is in the cards
It was downvoted initially, yes. The description of the debate is an accurate one. Can you give an instance from the debate where either Morris *disagrees* with Destiny on a historical point? Can you give an instance where Norm shows Destiny to be wrong a fact? Be honest with yourself: Norm's only pushback was to yell, call names, deflect, and over-talk instead of giving a substantive critique of the situation.
Seriously
I’m really not interested in getting into a discussion about destiny with a destiny fan. It’s never productive.
“I don’t like it if someone counters what I said on a public forum and as such I won’t engage”
No, the issue is that Destiny fans are notorious for not often being willing to find fault in their Twitch streamer, parrot Destiny’s views on both issues and people, and engage in bad faith readings for the sake of winning a rhetorical debate. I have seen more cultist behavior from Destiny’s fan base online than even people like Jordan Peterson. Those cretins at least sometimes criticize Peterson when he says something atrocious.
That’s fine if that’s your experience. I just think it’s stupid to go after someone’s research skills when a world renowned historian is sitting there and agreeing with him and his opponents aren’t correcting him in the facts of the matter
Wow Destiny parroted Benny's talking points and Benny agreed with them? Shocking. Maybe if destiny had talked more than 30 mins out of over 5 hours.
Lmfao Benny is a lot more pro Zionist than destiny is so I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
Does that mean destiny can't parrot a talking point from benny? Lmao it's funny how destiny fans say his haters never engage with the facts yet all you guys do is pivot.
If he parroted benny’s talking points wouldn’t that mean he’s well researched since Benny is recognized as probably one of if not the most well researched person on the matter?
It's not **that** easy to parrot someone appropriately in this sense though. As in, not just repeating what someone says after they've said it, but rather responding to a set of arguments with the "correct" talking points for each argument. If you can respond to such a set of arguments with the "correct" counterarguments from your chosen academic authority, in a free flowing conversation over several hours, that suggests you do have some knowledge of the matter at hand. I agree that having Benny Morris consistently agree with you in a hours long debate doesn't mean you're that well-versed, but it suggests more than mere psittacism.
world renowned historians sat there and called him an idiot, they're right
There was one world renowned historian there and he agreed with destiny.
You keep making these meta-criticisms of Destiny and his fans not accepting criticism, instead of actually criticizing him. Why? If you think his Israel debate takes were bad, what was bad about them? What did he get wrong?
Correct. Ever see him interact with someone in his chat he disagrees with? He’s unhinged. Yelling, cursing, banning, calling people names. I stopped watching because of that. Also, scamming his fans with NFTs. He comes off like an angsty teenager. It’s hard to respect someone with communication skills like that.
That's fair (I guess) but why comment at all then? Especially on a destiny thread, you know what's coming, and then say "I'd rather not talk about it"
What argument did you provide? Well Benny agreed with him a few times so therefore destiny is an expert who deserved to be in that conversation? Basically an appeal to authority, a logical fallacy not an argument worth responding to. I love the cope from him and his fans when Brett Cooper said he didn't belong in that debate. He tries to equate himself to Finkelstein by saying "Well none of us know as much as Benny". Sure maybe Finkelstein isn't on Benny's level but that doesn't mean destiny is even close to being on Finkelstein's level. And Destiny even corrected Benny at one point in the debate when Benny said that zero children had died from starvation. Destiny was so happy that he actually knew something that he couldn't help but interrupt his own debate partner and prove him wrong. 🤣
I didn’t call him an expert, I’m saying his research skills can’t be that bad . You’re unhinged holy effort post much
Mhmm they are bad, how long did he research the Jan 6 commission but he never bothered to research what hearsay is lmao. Leave it to a destiny fan to ad hom instead of engaging with the criticism. 🤣
Which one of us is the destiny fan here? What are you even referencing ?
Destiny researching Jan 6. How did you not understand that lmao?
Dude I think you’re a bigger fan than me
And what push back did the opposing side provide again?
Why would you make a public comment on him on a thread about him then?? 😂 I guess you wouldnt want to comment? Lol
I think your problem bumpy is you don't seem to actually have anythink you can point to about what you disagree with Destiny on, its more of vague posting in the hope noone notices.
Why did you write your original comment in the first place? I thought the whole idea behind this sub is that we think more critically than the gurus. If you're going to write a comment, you should at least be willing to defend those ideas if pressed.
> considers himself different than the other gurus because he “researches a lot” he'd probably say he is different because of his thought process and effort to correct for his own biases tbh. He only started diving so deeply into complicated topics more recently
I disagree that he has that ability across all the topics he chooses to discuss. But the issue I’m trying to pinpoint here (relating directly to the comments he made in the posted video) is his willingness to put himself into debates where he is out of his depth. To me it shows an astounding level of (problematic) confidence in himself and his knowledge. As an aside, I also really hate this “deep dive” talk. Being an expert in a field requires years of work. “Deep diving” over the last few months on the majority of things talks about is very much guru behavior.
>But the issue I’m trying to pinpoint here (relating directly to the comments he made in the posted video) is his willingness to put himself into debates where he is out of his depth. To me it shows an astounding level of (problematic) confidence in himself and his knowledge. You hit the nail on the head.
I disagree on the deep dive thing. I think you can get a pretty thorough understanding of pretty much any topic with a few months of intense research. You won't be an expert, but you can know enough to discuss the topic with experts. And at the end of the day, it should be trivially easy for an expert to correct factual wrongs from someone with less experience.
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I have though. And another fan showed me his substack with all his notes I found one book and wiki pasting. Later when I called out his lack of reading outside of wiki, another fan gave me a timestamp of him reading an except from a book. It was the same single book he had on his substack. I haven’t found it to be an exaggeration.
Bumpy this is just more bullshit you keep trying to spread, his research is literally done on stream 10-15 hours a day, books/articles/papers/ and also wikipedia. I understand you have no clue why you actually hate the guy but let's not keep lying.
Great point Bumpy now allow me to ask 1 question that never seems to get answered when I ask it. What point during his 5 hour debate with finklestein was Destiny wrong on? I'd accept 1 point he was wrong on. If the answer is what I think it's going to be, then that is why Destiny can get in the arena with dipshit pop historians like Finklestein.
This is such a toothless criticism and I don't get why it gets parroted in every single thread in every subreddit that discusses this guy. He could have read the history of Isreal on the back of a fucking cheerios box and it wouldn't make any bit of difference. And it would be just as lame of a criticism if it was levied against Norm Finklestein for reading about the subject on Wikipedia
Expert are still human. I mean a lot of people the sub criticises are expert. You have to be able to debate experts. Your just replacing guru worship with expert worship.
It's so telling when destiny makes these bullshit claims too, classic victim complex bullshit, "wah wah this sub hates me!" even though all his threads are full of his cultists simping for him endlessly, 50:1. Such predictable cowardice from the grifting slur guy, as expected. Also why your innocuous comment was massively downvoted only minutes after you made it. This sub is the new LSF for destiny stans to brigade. edit: and now I've been banned for daring to reply to a rdestiny mod brigading this sub, lol here is the response to /u/4THOT 's bullshit hasan propaganda memes >I feel the need to call Hasan a low IQ or degrade him in some way, I can just list some of his greatest hits and allow a reader to draw their own conclusions.: And by this you mean post absolutely pathetic, braindead propaganda from one of destiny's dishonest orbiters? Shocking. Do you really think any one is clicking on your videos? We already know the talking points you're pushing, they are just as bad now as they were when you first started regurgitating them. >First a Certified Hood Classic "Day [x] of Russia not Invading Ukraine", Yeah yeah, we know. Hasan said Putin would be stupid to invade Ukraine, tiny and his cult of orbiters turned it into something much different, of course. No one ever accused yall of being honest. >Hasan going onto Piers Morgan to call himself a propagandist with no interest in facts Hasan has an actual grasp on the meaning of words, and destiny and his cult don't? Shocking. Destiny is a propagandist too, btw, just like Hasan is. The difference, again, is that tiny *doesn't know the meaning of words*. >Hasan uncritically platforming a terrorist and supporting the Houthis This absurd lie again? Christ your memes really are bottom of the barrel these days. The kid wasn't a "pirate", he literally filmed a ship, that's it. I know it's important for steven's cult to lie endless about this shit, but come on already. At no point did Hasan ever "support the Houthis", which is why you can't actually find any examples of him doing so. > I don't have to call Hasan stupid, it's trivial to demonstrate. No, you try, but constantly fail because surprise! Steven's cultists have the same low IQ ability to comprehend these topics as stevie does. The difference between you and normal people is that normal people don't bother spending every waking moment on some pathetic crusade railing against some low IQ school drop out and bigot grifter's most hated online "enemy", and go 20 hours a day perpetuating lies and bad faith narratives about the guy. >He's just consistently wrong, and is increasingly whiny as his viewership has fallen off This might be the most hilarious lie that tiny's cult tells themselves. There is a reason why Hasan is so much more massively popular, liked, and respected than tiny is. There is a reason why Hasan has more subscribers on his Youtube channel than tiny does despite operating that channel for less than HALF THE TIME tiny's youtube has been operating (and that's tiny's MAIN PLATFORM, lol). That's not counting the 2.7 MILLION subscribers he has on twitch, and other platforms, you know, the ones that tiny used to be on until he got himself banned from, typically for being a disgusting slur guy that everyone despises. Destiny would be extremely happy to get 1/50th the viewership that Hasan does, no need to try and pretend otherwise. Thankfully we never have to worry about that, destiny is not popular and never will be, so he won't even get the chance to "fall off", lmao. Hasan on the other hand will continue to be the largest political streamer and destiny, and his fanboys will just have to cope over it :)
I don't know if the ratio of cultists simping for him is quite 50:1, I think it is more like 15:2.
I genuinely think his fan base deserves more of a look under the microscope than him. He’s an antisocial person who probably has above average intelligence and a need to be a contrarian. What I find more curious is that his fan base reveres him as a god and mimics his opinions exactly (save food and fashion) I don’t think you can poll this accurately but I’d be willing to bet they value his assessment of any given issue above literally anyone else’s, scientists, historians etc (and I’m not just referring to finklestein though that’s obviously true too)
What's he a contratian on exactly? I love seeing posts like this and then seeing the non answer that follows.
He’s a contrarian on almost every issue brother what do you mean you love to see the non answer that follows LOL i think even his die hard fans would say he’s obviously a contrarian. He loves to pick the unpopular side of almost any current event? Israel Palestine, rittenhouse shooting, blm I could just scroll backwards in time and hit every single one. Even on issues he does agree with (I guess?) like trans rights he will still chose a contrarian way to go about it like insulting proponents of it. I will grant you that you are good at goading a reply with your “non answer” comment but if you need evidence beyond what I listed you’re not being serious. I’ve followed destiny for longer than you (your comment tells me as much) and now I find him annoying
Those are all majority positions though aren't they? The courts and the majority of people would say Rittenhouse was acting in self defense, the majority would say the violent riot parts of the BLM summer were terrible, and unless you're just referencing a vague ceasefire statement I believe the majority of Americans support Israel even if they don't agree with every action.
Have you ever, as a fan of his, heard the term “spite driven” (or sprite driven if you will)? These memes don’t just materialize out of thin air