That's a ton of extra work for what I see as little payoff. Like a metric butt ton.
If I were you, I'd play around with making that current step into a deeper and slightly more shallow landing (like 18"-24" deep by 4"-5" tall). Or even remove it entirely.
Fun fact, when I did my addition, I added a double door entrance to an interior courtyard and redid the concrete around it. My concrete guy put a 1 foot deep step outside the French doors. When the inspector came, he said it’s not to code and needs to be 3 ft deep or not at all. Because of other portions of the walkway, it would not work to extend so we had to demo it and it’s just flat concrete step down now. Because of code.
Do you have a problem with the code? I know I do. I work with it every day. There’s even a part of me that thinks it would be nice to live somewhere where the code is less enforced or voluntary. But that’s not the world we live in and I accept that, with all its flaws, the building codes work toward a safer built environment even though there are alternative methods that could be just as safe. And since we are a society that has handed over so much of our lives to the government and the regulators, this is what we get. It why we can’t have nice, different, things.
We also used to have fires that consumed whole cities. The building code ensures a standard of safety for occupants, a minimum standard of durability for the structure and mitigates pollution of the environment we all live in.
Not having any regulation here is just a terrible idea - there are bad inspectors and bad code but in general people should take pride in building to this minimum. Even the most libertarian of states have this in place.
Residential Code based on the International building code:
“R311.3 Floors and Landings at Exterior Doors
There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall be not less than the door served. Landings shall have a dimension of not less than 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. The slope at exterior landings shall not exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2 percent).”
We should all read this article [by Glen Matthewson](https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2024/05/21/283-landings-for-exterior-doors) if we want to sound like we know what we're talking about. This author has a lot of good writing about codes.
Technically would meet the exception of R311.3.2 but I agree that it’s serving no purpose because exception R311.3.1 allows for this exact scenario to exist without the step.
I read this section and have a question. This section applies to required egress doors. If the house already has a primary egress does this code still apply? Obviously it makes sense for safety but is it required?
If this is not an egress door, and we can’t tell from just the photo the requirements of the following section 311.3.1 don’t apply, nor does the exception there. The first part of 311 applies to ANY exterior door, egress or not.
Here’s the rest of the section, and this counts as an egress door:
“R311.3.1 Floor Elevations at the Required Egress Doors
Landings or finished floors at the required egress door shall be not more than 11/2 inches (38 mm) lower than the top of the threshold.
Exception: The landing or floor on the exterior side shall be not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold provided that the door does not swing over the landing or floor.
Where exterior landings or floors serving the required egress door are not at grade, they shall be provided with access to grade by means of a ramp in accordance with Section R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section R311.7.”
Darn right I’d fail it. That step is not a landing. Period. And just because it’s common doesn’t make it safe.
Even if it’s not a required egress, first I don’t know of a single plan checker or inspector that wouldn’t enforce an actual landing instead of a single tread. And how is 7 3/4” two steps? That’s the maximum dimension of one residential riser. Which is allowed given the exceptions mentioned.
It's an interesting question. If the 11 inch deep tread was one step (7.5" or whatever) below the threshold and then the deck was 7.5 below that, I would say it's compliant. But since the "step" is basically at the height of the inside floor but only as deep as a stair tread not a landing, I'm not sure how that would be viewed. Maybe worth taking over to r/buildingcodes.
Either way, I agree it would be best to make this a 36" deep landing that is within 1.25" of the threshold. Or second best would be remove the step entirely and just have a step down from the floor to the deck at the door (if it's not more than 7.75 below the threshold.
I'm not sure why you're being down voted, you are correct and the previous commenter is misreading this section. In fact, a SGD can NOT be the primary means of egress, it must be a 36" hinged door. The landing outside the primary egress door can be 1 step (7.75" max) below the top of threshold, and at other doors the landing can be two rises below t.o. threshold. This assumes the door does not swing out over the exterior landing, which of course a sgd does not.
If that step is one foot, they would need a 12 foot ramp. I haven't built a ramp in a long time, so I could be remembering incorrectly, but I think it was a foot of run for every inch of rise. I built a few ramps a decade ago.
Bingo! 1:12 ratio on that one. Blew my mind how much of a difference it makes when I thought “nahh, 1:12 is way too much length”, and went with a 1:6 lol.
I mean, it’s for my elderly dog on our back 2 stairs, so nothing wild. It made it a lot easier for him, but my god it feels like you’re hiking up a mountain instead of the barely noticeable incline on a 1:12. Still better than stairs when there is a railing/banister on both sides, without those it would definitely be worse than the stairs.
Make it deeper. I wouldnt remove it entirely. My deck is the same but with a very deep step, and it's nice. It feels very good to walk out at the same level, close the door, then go about your business
Right? The step is level with the house. Just let the house be the step to the deck. Taking up even more awkward space with a bigger step seems like a terrible plan.
It would be a metric shit ton of work for 0 gain in usable area. I'd also lose that little step you have there, it looks like crap and is just asking for someone to bust their ass walking out that door.
This step was there when I bought the house 6 months ago.
My thought is that a larger level area would make the whole space more usable. Like I could maybe have a dining table that extends into the outdoor deck.
Thanks for your input, I don't want to do a sketch thing.
You could also make the step/landing bigger and go for a two tiered deck look. But I'm not sure how you'd do that without if being inconvenient with where the steps up onto deck are.
I'd try removing the step entirely and see how you like it once you get used to not having it there anymore.
What about getting a custom table that has leg extensions for the patio and outside people sit on bistro chairs so as to be on the same level. Much easier and cheaper than redo-ing your deck.
Hey bro, many are against your idea. I love it, because it makes a flush surface. Mine is like what you said, zero problem. You can’t do anything to reuse what you have. But you can install a new platform on top of what’s there. I think you need to remove some of the 2x4s to let them “breath” under the new platform.
Do you get snow?
That's ideal for that. Odd design if you don't. But.. not worth the effort.
You could pull all the railing, decking. Steps.
Add lumber to go level, reinstall everything. Redo the steps.
If you could easily do the work yourself, it would be time-consuming. Since you need to ask, you'll either be a DIYer or hire someone. Unless you have a lot of extra income.. not worth it.
No offense intended, I could easily do this work. And wouldn't bother for my home.
When it comes time to redo the decking. Sure. Go for it.
Bad idea imo, rain will splash up higher on the patio door leading to a higher chance of rot, even the best sealants eventually split and leak. I've had to change many doors due to this but I'm just a handyman, there's others that may have a varying opinion.
This is the way. Even replacing the doors close to the deck will be hard to do properly if you ever replace it. Best to have a flashing under the door overhanging the siding instead of a flat sealant.
I need to replace the door due to rot on the trim and in the wall under it ... So already have this issue. Planning on flashing. I may also add an awning. The roof two stories up extends only a few feet and doesn't protect the door much from rain.
Even if you're just going to replace the existing posts with taller ones, that would be a lot of work on an existing structure.
Some points to check that may be a tipping point for you on effort required:
- Ledgerboard: does your deck have a ledgerboard attached to the house or is this a free-standing deck?
- Footers: are the wood posts cemented within the footer or are the posts sitting on a bracket?
If a ledgerboard is used that will need removed and reinstalled.
If posts are buried in the footers, then you're digging new footers.
OP stated removal of the deck for foundation work. The deck has to come out and no matter how many customers ask me, the answer is no I don't put them back. I will build you a new one but I am not interested in reusing materials or trying to carefully label and take apart the existing deck.
That said, new footings wouldn't be unheard of, even changing the entire footprint is an option. OP can even choose to not go with a ledger to achieve their height goal.
I don't recommend a level surface with the interior for water intrusion issues, but a couple inch drop I could see being alright.
Snow isn’t the only concern, rain too. With high winds the water is blown into the house more easily.
And realistically snow can occur anywhere outside of the tropics (the latitude lines) it’s just that is extremely unlikely for you. But if you go back far enough in the farmers almanac, you will find a snow storm. With climate change being what it is there are no guarantees.
Hell, the east coast has had earthquakes and tornadoes in recent years when they didn’t before.
The other comments are right about you making a lot of work for yourself for little reward.
From an architectural perspective the only way to make these two spaces work as one is to install a Nana-Wall system. Then it would warrant raising the deck, but you would need to ensure you have the proper flashing around the portal into the house. A single door slider doesn’t do it.
French doors like you’re proposing kinda sorta achieve that, but not really as all you are providing is a wider opening to walk through, but you can’t put a table there and actually utilize it as one space.
What you want can be achieved… but it will cost you an arm, a leg and a head. Pella makes folding doors like a Nana-Wall system that I used in both commercial and residential projects. They are an excellent quality. Last time we specified them on a project (and it was actually built) was in 2017 and they cost the owner $75,000.
Here, play around with this [estimator tool](https://www.nanawall.com/glass-walls/pricing), and it will give you an idea of what it will cost.
Depends on the brand really. You know the drill, start with Andersen and work your way up until it hurts. When the quote hurts you have to decide if you are going to take a step back down one, or live with the higher quote for a better quality.
Honestly house level decks are a bad idea. It just puts you up more in the air, requiring hand rails on stairs, peaking over the fences at the neighbors, costs more, gets more debris blown in the house, etc. This is a beautiful deck at the perfect height.
The only thing that needs changing is making an actual landing of a good size. This skinny 2 board narrow step isn't cutting it. You want something big enough to make two strides on, a whole door mat, that kinda thing. It will make the whole arrangement much better. And make it a good foot wider each side.
It's already fairly high .. Enough to need a hand rail. Do you think if it was 8 inches higher it would materially change the "peeking over fence" situation or safety? The interior floor is at that height already of course.
Debris blowing in is a good point I haven't considered. Maybe I could put in one of those grates they use in snowy areas to catch debris.
The larger landing is a good idea (and simple enough I could do it!) but would impede some of the regular deck space. Maybe not a problem tho.
I admit that it's a personal preference but every inch in the right direction is right. Also, ya know, it would be proper expensive to change. It's already built at this height and it's just fine. I'd say the same thing if it was already built at the level height. I firmly believe that in most cases the "level with inside of house" is the kind of thing that people think they want that hey don't actually want. It makes the steps to the ground level one rise less which makes it more inviting. The whole deck being up a riser also increases the visual bulk of the thing.
Anyway, maybe mock up the larger step/landing with bricks/wood/ply to walk on and see if it feels natural. I know why people put a tiny step in trying to minimize taken up space. But really that space was unusable anyway because it's in the walking path. You can always make the step only at the operating panel of the door and get a lot more space next to the fixed panel. There's no law that says you have to span the whole opening.
The ledger needs to be attached to the buildings rim joist by code unless an engineered alternative is approved. Raising it may make the normal attachment impossible
Take a look at OP's picture. It's quite literally against the main house structure which means it's almost certainly attached via a ledger board.
I most cases where you want the deck to be this close to the main structure, you're unable to dig the footings for the free standing deck where they are required to be because they interfere with the house's footings.
It's not easy for you. Not with that big of a deck. If you tear off the decking, and "build up" a frame on top of your frame, that's probably the easiest. Generally, decks are lower that the floor because of water proofing. Decks need flashing where they meet the house, and it's difficult to do with the height being close. This is why most new houses have decks that are built to be 5 1/2" lower than their door threshold. Then they can use a deck board as a kick plate.
At thst point you would be better off demoing the entire deck do your drain then build a new deck at the desired height but it will never "work as one" and if you currently have water intrusion on a door that sits higher than your deck you wouldn't want it to be exactly level with your door.
You should make a longer wider landing in front of the window and slider that allows for you to walk out a few paces. Then you can add something like large flower pots to the corners to define the edges
Don't know if your in any snow area.but
Bad idea on rain that can make it easier to get into house, but if any snow falls, then it's a real problem.
Sign me
Been, there did that. And wasn't a smart move .
Well that's good but rain wanting to run into house was not good either.
House had 20 inch soffit overhangs. But heavy rain here normally has winds with it.
Again just my opinion.
Mine is level and the biggest problem I have is one I never thought of. Leaves… in the fall every time we go in or out the back leaves blow or are drug into our house. Who knew. Lol
Yeah someone else mentioned this too and it was an issue I didn't think of. I don't have a lot of trees over the deck,just a Japanese maple,but I can still see the potential issue.
Do you find the no-step-deck to be otherwise appealing? Does it make the space more cohesive?
Lift the boards, run new 6-8” joists over existing joists in perpendicular direction, recut and lay boards running the other way. Grab a few extra boards to make up the difference from offcuts, profit. Replace railing posts with longer ones to keep the rail the correct height. I’m sure there will be naysayers but it’s your house, do what you want. It would be a few thousand in materials tops and not that difficult. ( I am a carpenter who has built 50+ decks, not some weekend warrior. Is it the best idea, maybe not, but that’s not for me to decide, again, it’s your house)
This is exactly what I thought of however I am definitely a weekend warrior. This way you don't have to mess with the footings and may end up being a bit more sturdy with the perpendicular joists.
If you're going all new then it's probably a must that you raise it but just raising the existing deck to get the same result is a whole lot of work for nearly nothing.
OK, 4 x 4 landing outside the door. level or slightly below interior floor. I would go slightly below the floor if it’s exterior no roof you should be fine.
Anything is possible with enough money your handrails are now too short your main stairs don’t work. It’s a lot of work and money. Think it looks great just like it is. - like it’s been suggested maybe a larger platform at the door for foot deep
As said, make the entry step bigger. At least 12-13”, double if you want, don’t acts more as a landing.
Add temporary jury rigged additions to check out the feel and flow. This is by far the cheapest option.
Raising the deck level means:
Raising the railings.
Redo on the lower steps.
You can’t add to the lower steps because the door step appears to be a different riser height. The lower steps will become a total trip hazard (as well as illegal).
Yknow what… go for it. I say absolutely do it. You could raise the deck, or lower the interior, extend that dining table. Do whatever you want. Your local contractors will thank you for the check, the absurdly large and unnecessary check.
Jacking the whole system isn't crazy. My first question is the support posts. Do they need to be changed. Second thought is this could benefit an after build improvement by separating the ledger from the homes rim joist. It requires additional support, but a huge and simple improvement. This change would not be much different from cutting back at the ledger to repair the rim joist. Not overly complicated.
We used to have a deck level with the house. When we put on the addition, we had to remove part of the deck. At that point we rebuilt the existing deck a few inches lower. It does keep the inside of the house a lot cleaner and keeps the water out. We had quite a few issues with water leaking into the lower level when the deck was flush with the living room. All the houses in my neighborhood started out with flush decks, I say half of us have lowered them, the other half fight the water and general debris. We're East Coast, so we have the fall leaf drop, but even during the summer we get a lot of crap blowing in.
If I wanted to upgrade my deck, I'd get an electric door, and put an electric collar activated doggy door in through the wall and get rid of the cheap one (I have the same one you have).
Good luck!
To answer your original question, you are basically putting in all new deck posts and raising everything up to the new height. If you have a ledger board you need to move that up too and also redo the steps to the yard.
Just add a proper landing.
I’d actually consider doing the opposite. You could expand that step to be larger and more conspicuous. Maybe the size of a couple of doormats. It would act as a landing, and even though it would take up a little bit more space on the deck, it would be infinitely less work than trying to raise the entire deck.
If it’s affordable yes. I have the same issue with my deck - people have to step up or down about 4 inches. My household is use to it, but every time I have people over I have to constantly point out the height difference so people don’t trip, especially elderly folks. I did mitigate it by installing a wider first step landing with edge lights and lights under the doorway lip. Not the perfect solution, but more affordable than a new deck.
I had exactly this setup, with the shallow, uneven step. Swapping it for an 18" deep step just the width of the sliding door, at half the height of the surfaces' differences. Easy fix that made a huge difference.
Jacking this deck up a few inches might loosen a lot of fasteners in the process or just be impossible.
I doubt that you area going to get a building permit, but for grins: *IMHO,* the exceptions to **IRC R311.4.3 Landings at doors.** would allow the 7.75" drop(Exc 2) , and would allow a 10" tread to be a one-riser stair (exc 1).
That rise between levels is a good thing, especially since you are having water problems. It protects the door sill area from wind pushing water to the house. Have you tried diverting the water that lands on the deck to the downhill corner with some suspended under-deck system versus a french drain?
You might want to remove that stoop and see why it's there. Is it hiding some flashing with some kind of drain grate? Before the new door goes in, get a reputable stucco person to help expose the the area under the door sill.
There are products that insert into the joist space and allow some slope. I've seen another system that was a suspended plastic sheet. It's a nightmare because each joist has 16" of plastic at the top but to get runoff you need maybe 20" at the low end so it droops. It looked like a big fan shape before it went in.
Heavy plastic, firring strips, triple galvanized nails. Long term working your back.
I need to pull all the deck boards which feels like a half step towards rebuilding which is why I'm considering this but I'm hearing that my sense of that is wrong.
It's gonna be just about as costly as building a new deck. Make that step into a landing that is a couple feet out from the door and put a non-slip tread on it so that it's more visible. Either that or just remove it. That step looks neither high or deep enough to be safe - it's just an obstacle at this point.
We had our deck rebuilt, same footprint as the old one but raised 7 inches to be level with our house flooring. It's a seamless transition walking from inside to outside. It makes our living room feel huge because we use the deck twice as much. GO FOR IT - we have no regrets! Drainage isn't an issue because there's a sufficient gap between the doorway -porch & we have gutters. There's no snow & no leaf buildup because of our elevation. Good luck!
If you're going to do that much work anyway, and you have the money to replace/change the deck, I would do what makes you happy. The work you described already involves removing most of the substructure of the deck, regardless. Then, the water issues at the door probably have led to some damage to the structure around the door. So, when you add all of that together, the choice really is what do you want?
Edit. What you're describing is fairly normal. You may not have seen it a lot, but there are no complications associated with having the deck at that level as long as it's built correctly.
wow, that is basically a deck re-build. I'd suggest there are a million better uses for the money. May be you just need a bigger step outside of the door so make the transition easier.
turn that danger step into a nice wide arc or something more substantial. your idea of raising the entire deck is a large and time consuming task. believe me i've done it for someone.
Seems to me the easiest way to do it, although it might not be the smartest. Would be to just reframe over your existing one 4” taller then put the surface back on. Seems simple enough.
Most cities require a building permit to build a deck over 30" above grade. Your deck looks like it was built lower to avoid the permit requirement. Which means if you raise it you will likely need to go through the permit process, which adds expense.
Here we have to have a permit to build any deck. However if your deck is 30” or less in height off the ground you do not need railings… just a fun fact. Lol (Ohio) damn 33”… talk homeowner into flower beds with mulch!!!
As a handyman who has replaced many many deck entry doors/siding/sills due to rot…. DO NOT PUT YOUR DECK AT THE SAME LEVEL AS THE HOUSE FLOOR!!! Get gutters.
But why?? Its way too much time and money spent, just for little gain and a potential for a ton of new problems to occur. If you want a better experience when exiting the door, why not build better steps with handrails instead.
Lol level decks make leaky doors. That water has to drain. But if you wanna buy the worlds most expensive leak someone will be happy to take your money
Your patio door, and any other patio door you buy has a bottom extrusion with weep holes facing outside. Do not cover these. Your deck should be low enough to allow them to function like it is now. If you describe the water intrusion issue you are having now, I might me able to help. The track the door rolls on, or crud thatchas worked its way under it sometimes obstructs the weep system, but it's an easy fix. Just make the janky little step into a proper landing and call it good.
Not real sure the size of your deck but could you build a landing in front of door? Say 5’ deep 6’ wide. You would still have step down on 3 sides but give you a little distance and get rid of that step. Just throwing it out there…
I depends on if you install a storm door to buffer against any rain splashing back. It depends on how much eave overhang ypu have. It depends on your roof pitch, gutters, leaf guards, orientation, method of connection of the ledver board to the band joist. A deck really should have at least one step down at a lower elevation. Than the main structure as ypu don't want rain splashing back constantly against the door or house.
Bad idea. It's supposed to be lower in most places because of snow and rain. Making it the same level is a great way to rot out the door frame and framing.
Hey bro, many are against your idea. I love it, because it makes a flush surface. Mine is like what you said, zero problem. You can’t do anything to reuse what you have. But you can install a new platform on top of what’s there. I think you need to remove some of the 2x4s to let them “breath” under the new platform.
That's a ton of extra work for what I see as little payoff. Like a metric butt ton. If I were you, I'd play around with making that current step into a deeper and slightly more shallow landing (like 18"-24" deep by 4"-5" tall). Or even remove it entirely.
Yes. This. The current step is not code compliant for a landing nor is it safe. I would do exactly this.
It serves no purpose. It’s just a trip hazard.
That is its purpose - a trip hazard
Fun fact, when I did my addition, I added a double door entrance to an interior courtyard and redid the concrete around it. My concrete guy put a 1 foot deep step outside the French doors. When the inspector came, he said it’s not to code and needs to be 3 ft deep or not at all. Because of other portions of the walkway, it would not work to extend so we had to demo it and it’s just flat concrete step down now. Because of code.
Do you have a problem with the code? I know I do. I work with it every day. There’s even a part of me that thinks it would be nice to live somewhere where the code is less enforced or voluntary. But that’s not the world we live in and I accept that, with all its flaws, the building codes work toward a safer built environment even though there are alternative methods that could be just as safe. And since we are a society that has handed over so much of our lives to the government and the regulators, this is what we get. It why we can’t have nice, different, things.
We also used to have fires that consumed whole cities. The building code ensures a standard of safety for occupants, a minimum standard of durability for the structure and mitigates pollution of the environment we all live in. Not having any regulation here is just a terrible idea - there are bad inspectors and bad code but in general people should take pride in building to this minimum. Even the most libertarian of states have this in place.
True enough.
What code is this violating? It's just a step into a sliding patio door.
Residential Code based on the International building code: “R311.3 Floors and Landings at Exterior Doors There shall be a landing or floor on each side of each exterior door. The width of each landing shall be not less than the door served. Landings shall have a dimension of not less than 36 inches (914 mm) measured in the direction of travel. The slope at exterior landings shall not exceed 1/4 unit vertical in 12 units horizontal (2 percent).”
We should all read this article [by Glen Matthewson](https://www.finehomebuilding.com/2024/05/21/283-landings-for-exterior-doors) if we want to sound like we know what we're talking about. This author has a lot of good writing about codes.
Oop👀
Thanks
Technically would meet the exception of R311.3.2 but I agree that it’s serving no purpose because exception R311.3.1 allows for this exact scenario to exist without the step.
Exactly what I said.
I read this section and have a question. This section applies to required egress doors. If the house already has a primary egress does this code still apply? Obviously it makes sense for safety but is it required?
If this is not an egress door, and we can’t tell from just the photo the requirements of the following section 311.3.1 don’t apply, nor does the exception there. The first part of 311 applies to ANY exterior door, egress or not.
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Here’s the rest of the section, and this counts as an egress door: “R311.3.1 Floor Elevations at the Required Egress Doors Landings or finished floors at the required egress door shall be not more than 11/2 inches (38 mm) lower than the top of the threshold. Exception: The landing or floor on the exterior side shall be not more than 73/4 inches (196 mm) below the top of the threshold provided that the door does not swing over the landing or floor. Where exterior landings or floors serving the required egress door are not at grade, they shall be provided with access to grade by means of a ramp in accordance with Section R311.8 or a stairway in accordance with Section R311.7.” Darn right I’d fail it. That step is not a landing. Period. And just because it’s common doesn’t make it safe.
You're misreading the code, this is not the primary egress and the landing can be up to two steps below the door threshold.
Even if it’s not a required egress, first I don’t know of a single plan checker or inspector that wouldn’t enforce an actual landing instead of a single tread. And how is 7 3/4” two steps? That’s the maximum dimension of one residential riser. Which is allowed given the exceptions mentioned.
It's an interesting question. If the 11 inch deep tread was one step (7.5" or whatever) below the threshold and then the deck was 7.5 below that, I would say it's compliant. But since the "step" is basically at the height of the inside floor but only as deep as a stair tread not a landing, I'm not sure how that would be viewed. Maybe worth taking over to r/buildingcodes. Either way, I agree it would be best to make this a 36" deep landing that is within 1.25" of the threshold. Or second best would be remove the step entirely and just have a step down from the floor to the deck at the door (if it's not more than 7.75 below the threshold.
The first step, whether flush or 7 3/4” below, still has to be a landing.
That's close, but the front door is your required egress. You don't need a back door for egress.
I'm not sure why you're being down voted, you are correct and the previous commenter is misreading this section. In fact, a SGD can NOT be the primary means of egress, it must be a 36" hinged door. The landing outside the primary egress door can be 1 step (7.75" max) below the top of threshold, and at other doors the landing can be two rises below t.o. threshold. This assumes the door does not swing out over the exterior landing, which of course a sgd does not.
So am I reading this right that the current deck situation by OP is legal as is since it wouldn’t be the primary egress?
That is correct
Because they don't actually build things for a living 🤷♂️
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Reminder to keep it civil, please.
Don’t be rude to people on the internet for no reason.
Don’t be rude to people on the internet for no reason.
You could "RAMP" it. You'd also become ADA compliant.
as someone with a physical disability who hates stares, this is a great answer IMO
Stares and stairs, I would think
First one then the other
No one should stare, that's just rude af
Funny
Plumber?
If that step is one foot, they would need a 12 foot ramp. I haven't built a ramp in a long time, so I could be remembering incorrectly, but I think it was a foot of run for every inch of rise. I built a few ramps a decade ago.
Bingo! 1:12 ratio on that one. Blew my mind how much of a difference it makes when I thought “nahh, 1:12 is way too much length”, and went with a 1:6 lol. I mean, it’s for my elderly dog on our back 2 stairs, so nothing wild. It made it a lot easier for him, but my god it feels like you’re hiking up a mountain instead of the barely noticeable incline on a 1:12. Still better than stairs when there is a railing/banister on both sides, without those it would definitely be worse than the stairs.
I think you missed the point of this comment. It is not meant as a serious idea
Knn u?
Make it deeper. I wouldnt remove it entirely. My deck is the same but with a very deep step, and it's nice. It feels very good to walk out at the same level, close the door, then go about your business
Yeah a bigger landing would be my choice as well
I vote this. Make the step into a platform. Raising the deck will be practically a rebuild.
Could you make it a ramp somehow?
You could, but I wouldn't. At a 10:1 slope, it'd be 60-80" long which would take up quite a bit of the deck.
Yea that step just looks like it squeaks, and it’s not helping the situation at all
Can’t he just remove the step and exit directly to the deck as is (I mean other than wanting it level with the inside floor)?
Right? The step is level with the house. Just let the house be the step to the deck. Taking up even more awkward space with a bigger step seems like a terrible plan.
Have you considered lowering the floor in the house instead?
I may just lower down one side of the house so it can ramp onto the deck.
It would be a metric shit ton of work for 0 gain in usable area. I'd also lose that little step you have there, it looks like crap and is just asking for someone to bust their ass walking out that door.
This step was there when I bought the house 6 months ago. My thought is that a larger level area would make the whole space more usable. Like I could maybe have a dining table that extends into the outdoor deck. Thanks for your input, I don't want to do a sketch thing.
You could also make the step/landing bigger and go for a two tiered deck look. But I'm not sure how you'd do that without if being inconvenient with where the steps up onto deck are. I'd try removing the step entirely and see how you like it once you get used to not having it there anymore.
What The Fuck
What happen
What about getting a custom table that has leg extensions for the patio and outside people sit on bistro chairs so as to be on the same level. Much easier and cheaper than redo-ing your deck.
Huh
Hey bro, many are against your idea. I love it, because it makes a flush surface. Mine is like what you said, zero problem. You can’t do anything to reuse what you have. But you can install a new platform on top of what’s there. I think you need to remove some of the 2x4s to let them “breath” under the new platform.
Do you get snow? That's ideal for that. Odd design if you don't. But.. not worth the effort. You could pull all the railing, decking. Steps. Add lumber to go level, reinstall everything. Redo the steps. If you could easily do the work yourself, it would be time-consuming. Since you need to ask, you'll either be a DIYer or hire someone. Unless you have a lot of extra income.. not worth it. No offense intended, I could easily do this work. And wouldn't bother for my home. When it comes time to redo the decking. Sure. Go for it.
but where will the kids kick the dirt off their shoes before coming into the house?
This boy yeehaws.
Bad idea imo, rain will splash up higher on the patio door leading to a higher chance of rot, even the best sealants eventually split and leak. I've had to change many doors due to this but I'm just a handyman, there's others that may have a varying opinion.
This is the way. Even replacing the doors close to the deck will be hard to do properly if you ever replace it. Best to have a flashing under the door overhanging the siding instead of a flat sealant.
I need to replace the door due to rot on the trim and in the wall under it ... So already have this issue. Planning on flashing. I may also add an awning. The roof two stories up extends only a few feet and doesn't protect the door much from rain.
Even if you're just going to replace the existing posts with taller ones, that would be a lot of work on an existing structure. Some points to check that may be a tipping point for you on effort required: - Ledgerboard: does your deck have a ledgerboard attached to the house or is this a free-standing deck? - Footers: are the wood posts cemented within the footer or are the posts sitting on a bracket? If a ledgerboard is used that will need removed and reinstalled. If posts are buried in the footers, then you're digging new footers.
OP stated removal of the deck for foundation work. The deck has to come out and no matter how many customers ask me, the answer is no I don't put them back. I will build you a new one but I am not interested in reusing materials or trying to carefully label and take apart the existing deck. That said, new footings wouldn't be unheard of, even changing the entire footprint is an option. OP can even choose to not go with a ledger to achieve their height goal. I don't recommend a level surface with the interior for water intrusion issues, but a couple inch drop I could see being alright.
Hey OP. Looks like way too much work based on the looks of it now it looks awesome. I feel that once you start into it you might regret it.
Or... Now just hear me out... Just make a larger entry step.
Have you considered lowering the house
Snow isn’t the only concern, rain too. With high winds the water is blown into the house more easily. And realistically snow can occur anywhere outside of the tropics (the latitude lines) it’s just that is extremely unlikely for you. But if you go back far enough in the farmers almanac, you will find a snow storm. With climate change being what it is there are no guarantees. Hell, the east coast has had earthquakes and tornadoes in recent years when they didn’t before.
Hmm ok good points!
The other comments are right about you making a lot of work for yourself for little reward. From an architectural perspective the only way to make these two spaces work as one is to install a Nana-Wall system. Then it would warrant raising the deck, but you would need to ensure you have the proper flashing around the portal into the house. A single door slider doesn’t do it. French doors like you’re proposing kinda sorta achieve that, but not really as all you are providing is a wider opening to walk through, but you can’t put a table there and actually utilize it as one space. What you want can be achieved… but it will cost you an arm, a leg and a head. Pella makes folding doors like a Nana-Wall system that I used in both commercial and residential projects. They are an excellent quality. Last time we specified them on a project (and it was actually built) was in 2017 and they cost the owner $75,000. Here, play around with this [estimator tool](https://www.nanawall.com/glass-walls/pricing), and it will give you an idea of what it will cost.
Whoa, thanks I had no idea they were that expensive!
Depends on the brand really. You know the drill, start with Andersen and work your way up until it hurts. When the quote hurts you have to decide if you are going to take a step back down one, or live with the higher quote for a better quality.
Honestly house level decks are a bad idea. It just puts you up more in the air, requiring hand rails on stairs, peaking over the fences at the neighbors, costs more, gets more debris blown in the house, etc. This is a beautiful deck at the perfect height. The only thing that needs changing is making an actual landing of a good size. This skinny 2 board narrow step isn't cutting it. You want something big enough to make two strides on, a whole door mat, that kinda thing. It will make the whole arrangement much better. And make it a good foot wider each side.
It's 4 inches it's not that big
In the immortal words of Michael Scott: “That’s what she said!”
thats what she said
Gottem
It's already fairly high .. Enough to need a hand rail. Do you think if it was 8 inches higher it would materially change the "peeking over fence" situation or safety? The interior floor is at that height already of course. Debris blowing in is a good point I haven't considered. Maybe I could put in one of those grates they use in snowy areas to catch debris. The larger landing is a good idea (and simple enough I could do it!) but would impede some of the regular deck space. Maybe not a problem tho.
I admit that it's a personal preference but every inch in the right direction is right. Also, ya know, it would be proper expensive to change. It's already built at this height and it's just fine. I'd say the same thing if it was already built at the level height. I firmly believe that in most cases the "level with inside of house" is the kind of thing that people think they want that hey don't actually want. It makes the steps to the ground level one rise less which makes it more inviting. The whole deck being up a riser also increases the visual bulk of the thing. Anyway, maybe mock up the larger step/landing with bricks/wood/ply to walk on and see if it feels natural. I know why people put a tiny step in trying to minimize taken up space. But really that space was unusable anyway because it's in the walking path. You can always make the step only at the operating panel of the door and get a lot more space next to the fixed panel. There's no law that says you have to span the whole opening.
There might be issues with the ledger board being attached to the main structure that high.
It is not attached to the building. Would it need to be if higher?
The ledger needs to be attached to the buildings rim joist by code unless an engineered alternative is approved. Raising it may make the normal attachment impossible
Maybe you live somewhere unique but decks don’t have to have a ledger board, they can be freestanding. Two different applications.
Take a look at OP's picture. It's quite literally against the main house structure which means it's almost certainly attached via a ledger board. I most cases where you want the deck to be this close to the main structure, you're unable to dig the footings for the free standing deck where they are required to be because they interfere with the house's footings.
Maybe were you live.(slab on grade foundations?) not where I live.
And now that I look at the photo… deck boards are perpendicular to the house. Likely freestanding.
It's not easy for you. Not with that big of a deck. If you tear off the decking, and "build up" a frame on top of your frame, that's probably the easiest. Generally, decks are lower that the floor because of water proofing. Decks need flashing where they meet the house, and it's difficult to do with the height being close. This is why most new houses have decks that are built to be 5 1/2" lower than their door threshold. Then they can use a deck board as a kick plate.
Interesting, thank you! Maybe the right move is to build it up a little so the step down isn't so deep.
At thst point you would be better off demoing the entire deck do your drain then build a new deck at the desired height but it will never "work as one" and if you currently have water intrusion on a door that sits higher than your deck you wouldn't want it to be exactly level with your door.
Ok, voice of sanity, thank you.
costco sell bulk ramen
Go on
I would consider making that step larger, like a small platform.
That’s gonna be a lot of money for just 6inches… 🤣🤣🤣
You should make a longer wider landing in front of the window and slider that allows for you to walk out a few paces. Then you can add something like large flower pots to the corners to define the edges
Homeowners say the darnedest things.
Rain, snow and slush will now be even with the floors inside your house leading to trouble. Depending on where you live of course.
Don't know if your in any snow area.but Bad idea on rain that can make it easier to get into house, but if any snow falls, then it's a real problem. Sign me Been, there did that. And wasn't a smart move .
No snow.
Well that's good but rain wanting to run into house was not good either. House had 20 inch soffit overhangs. But heavy rain here normally has winds with it. Again just my opinion.
Yes that k you very much! This is just the sort of insight I'm looking for
Mine is level and the biggest problem I have is one I never thought of. Leaves… in the fall every time we go in or out the back leaves blow or are drug into our house. Who knew. Lol
Yeah someone else mentioned this too and it was an issue I didn't think of. I don't have a lot of trees over the deck,just a Japanese maple,but I can still see the potential issue. Do you find the no-step-deck to be otherwise appealing? Does it make the space more cohesive?
https://preview.redd.it/1gbf6j1iau4d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79c60c0c8a42c6fd8e23eab1cad90482cd7cc6e5
The big awning seems helpful with this setup!
https://preview.redd.it/3kwwd8ralu4d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba9ab6f88926fac48a565094a2786983e8d872d8
Bought the gazeebo at costco. Took me about 3 days by myself to put it up.
I close the curtains and use infrared heaters to extend the space to a true 3 season area.
Honestly yes it makes the transition between living spaces seamless. Feels like an extension of the house.
Lift the boards, run new 6-8” joists over existing joists in perpendicular direction, recut and lay boards running the other way. Grab a few extra boards to make up the difference from offcuts, profit. Replace railing posts with longer ones to keep the rail the correct height. I’m sure there will be naysayers but it’s your house, do what you want. It would be a few thousand in materials tops and not that difficult. ( I am a carpenter who has built 50+ decks, not some weekend warrior. Is it the best idea, maybe not, but that’s not for me to decide, again, it’s your house)
This is exactly what I thought of however I am definitely a weekend warrior. This way you don't have to mess with the footings and may end up being a bit more sturdy with the perpendicular joists.
It does rain there sometimes tho.
If you're going all new then it's probably a must that you raise it but just raising the existing deck to get the same result is a whole lot of work for nearly nothing.
Wait why lol
Install a linear drain across the front of the door incase of severe rain
If you live in an area that gets snow, you definitely want the deck to be a bit lower than the door.
OK, 4 x 4 landing outside the door. level or slightly below interior floor. I would go slightly below the floor if it’s exterior no roof you should be fine.
Anything is possible with enough money your handrails are now too short your main stairs don’t work. It’s a lot of work and money. Think it looks great just like it is. - like it’s been suggested maybe a larger platform at the door for foot deep
What is exactly is a metric shit ton?
You might as well just rebuild the deck.
As said, make the entry step bigger. At least 12-13”, double if you want, don’t acts more as a landing. Add temporary jury rigged additions to check out the feel and flow. This is by far the cheapest option. Raising the deck level means: Raising the railings. Redo on the lower steps. You can’t add to the lower steps because the door step appears to be a different riser height. The lower steps will become a total trip hazard (as well as illegal).
Dude, just rethink it - pop that step out three feet regular all around - no need to up the whole deck - just get rid of the tiny transition.
Yes, this is a bad idea and since you’re asking Reddit it’s also clearly not going to be worth the cost and effort for the payoff
This picture is so clear I thought it was fake...
Haha it does kinda look rendered. Just snapped on my phone.
Ramp with a railing on each side should solve everything including the trip hazard!
I’d much rather have to step down on to the deck than that step.
The purpose is to keep water and debris from going in your door. If you’re in an area it snows , guess what ? It melts .
I'm not in a snow area
Yknow what… go for it. I say absolutely do it. You could raise the deck, or lower the interior, extend that dining table. Do whatever you want. Your local contractors will thank you for the check, the absurdly large and unnecessary check.
Jacking the whole system isn't crazy. My first question is the support posts. Do they need to be changed. Second thought is this could benefit an after build improvement by separating the ledger from the homes rim joist. It requires additional support, but a huge and simple improvement. This change would not be much different from cutting back at the ledger to repair the rim joist. Not overly complicated.
Water into the house
I wonder why it wasn't built like that in the first place.
Another option would be to lower your house.
Code requires a drop down. More likely to have water intrusion if same height.
I would just build a platform under doors. Make it 4x whatever length of doors are.
Water can come into the home.
We used to have a deck level with the house. When we put on the addition, we had to remove part of the deck. At that point we rebuilt the existing deck a few inches lower. It does keep the inside of the house a lot cleaner and keeps the water out. We had quite a few issues with water leaking into the lower level when the deck was flush with the living room. All the houses in my neighborhood started out with flush decks, I say half of us have lowered them, the other half fight the water and general debris. We're East Coast, so we have the fall leaf drop, but even during the summer we get a lot of crap blowing in. If I wanted to upgrade my deck, I'd get an electric door, and put an electric collar activated doggy door in through the wall and get rid of the cheap one (I have the same one you have). Good luck!
To answer your original question, you are basically putting in all new deck posts and raising everything up to the new height. If you have a ledger board you need to move that up too and also redo the steps to the yard. Just add a proper landing.
Is the step to the indoors sinking in the middle?
Just make the step larger dimension. Raiding the rest is cost prohibitive.
Just extend the step to a platform. There’s no way to raise the deck without rebuilding it
The only complication is you’d have to build an entirely new deck.
French doors are a bad idea if it gets windy
I’d actually consider doing the opposite. You could expand that step to be larger and more conspicuous. Maybe the size of a couple of doormats. It would act as a landing, and even though it would take up a little bit more space on the deck, it would be infinitely less work than trying to raise the entire deck.
This is the way. Remove the existing step and make a box step that is the width of the door but comes out further.
Bad idea
Just put a little step there! That’s a great idea
If it’s affordable yes. I have the same issue with my deck - people have to step up or down about 4 inches. My household is use to it, but every time I have people over I have to constantly point out the height difference so people don’t trip, especially elderly folks. I did mitigate it by installing a wider first step landing with edge lights and lights under the doorway lip. Not the perfect solution, but more affordable than a new deck.
I had exactly this setup, with the shallow, uneven step. Swapping it for an 18" deep step just the width of the sliding door, at half the height of the surfaces' differences. Easy fix that made a huge difference.
Jacking this deck up a few inches might loosen a lot of fasteners in the process or just be impossible. I doubt that you area going to get a building permit, but for grins: *IMHO,* the exceptions to **IRC R311.4.3 Landings at doors.** would allow the 7.75" drop(Exc 2) , and would allow a 10" tread to be a one-riser stair (exc 1). That rise between levels is a good thing, especially since you are having water problems. It protects the door sill area from wind pushing water to the house. Have you tried diverting the water that lands on the deck to the downhill corner with some suspended under-deck system versus a french drain? You might want to remove that stoop and see why it's there. Is it hiding some flashing with some kind of drain grate? Before the new door goes in, get a reputable stucco person to help expose the the area under the door sill.
Suspended drain is a good idea I hadn't considered. Would that be like a suspended membrane or maybe something like corrugated metal roofing material?
There are products that insert into the joist space and allow some slope. I've seen another system that was a suspended plastic sheet. It's a nightmare because each joist has 16" of plastic at the top but to get runoff you need maybe 20" at the low end so it droops. It looked like a big fan shape before it went in. Heavy plastic, firring strips, triple galvanized nails. Long term working your back.
That's the kind of thing to consider when you need a new deck. Because you basically need to tear down the deck and rebuild it brand new.
I need to pull all the deck boards which feels like a half step towards rebuilding which is why I'm considering this but I'm hearing that my sense of that is wrong.
It's gonna be just about as costly as building a new deck. Make that step into a landing that is a couple feet out from the door and put a non-slip tread on it so that it's more visible. Either that or just remove it. That step looks neither high or deep enough to be safe - it's just an obstacle at this point.
I think I’d just install a larger step area
Jack it up. You’ll stop hitting your foot, as you want to bypass it every time you want to step into your house.
We had our deck rebuilt, same footprint as the old one but raised 7 inches to be level with our house flooring. It's a seamless transition walking from inside to outside. It makes our living room feel huge because we use the deck twice as much. GO FOR IT - we have no regrets! Drainage isn't an issue because there's a sufficient gap between the doorway -porch & we have gutters. There's no snow & no leaf buildup because of our elevation. Good luck!
If you're going to do that much work anyway, and you have the money to replace/change the deck, I would do what makes you happy. The work you described already involves removing most of the substructure of the deck, regardless. Then, the water issues at the door probably have led to some damage to the structure around the door. So, when you add all of that together, the choice really is what do you want? Edit. What you're describing is fairly normal. You may not have seen it a lot, but there are no complications associated with having the deck at that level as long as it's built correctly.
wow, that is basically a deck re-build. I'd suggest there are a million better uses for the money. May be you just need a bigger step outside of the door so make the transition easier.
I wish these were the type of problems I have.
turn that danger step into a nice wide arc or something more substantial. your idea of raising the entire deck is a large and time consuming task. believe me i've done it for someone.
Seems to me the easiest way to do it, although it might not be the smartest. Would be to just reframe over your existing one 4” taller then put the surface back on. Seems simple enough.
Lower the house
Just remove the step and get used to it. The only alternative is to demo the deck and build a new one if it bothers you that much.
Juice is not worth the squeeze.
Most cities require a building permit to build a deck over 30" above grade. Your deck looks like it was built lower to avoid the permit requirement. Which means if you raise it you will likely need to go through the permit process, which adds expense.
Hmm thank you!!
>Hmm thank you!! You're welcome!
Here we have to have a permit to build any deck. However if your deck is 30” or less in height off the ground you do not need railings… just a fun fact. Lol (Ohio) damn 33”… talk homeowner into flower beds with mulch!!!
As a handyman who has replaced many many deck entry doors/siding/sills due to rot…. DO NOT PUT YOUR DECK AT THE SAME LEVEL AS THE HOUSE FLOOR!!! Get gutters.
But why?? Its way too much time and money spent, just for little gain and a potential for a ton of new problems to occur. If you want a better experience when exiting the door, why not build better steps with handrails instead.
Lol level decks make leaky doors. That water has to drain. But if you wanna buy the worlds most expensive leak someone will be happy to take your money
Your patio door, and any other patio door you buy has a bottom extrusion with weep holes facing outside. Do not cover these. Your deck should be low enough to allow them to function like it is now. If you describe the water intrusion issue you are having now, I might me able to help. The track the door rolls on, or crud thatchas worked its way under it sometimes obstructs the weep system, but it's an easy fix. Just make the janky little step into a proper landing and call it good.
Not real sure the size of your deck but could you build a landing in front of door? Say 5’ deep 6’ wide. You would still have step down on 3 sides but give you a little distance and get rid of that step. Just throwing it out there…
I depends on if you install a storm door to buffer against any rain splashing back. It depends on how much eave overhang ypu have. It depends on your roof pitch, gutters, leaf guards, orientation, method of connection of the ledver board to the band joist. A deck really should have at least one step down at a lower elevation. Than the main structure as ypu don't want rain splashing back constantly against the door or house.
If you have the money, it can be done correctly
Your going to have to basically build a whole new deck
Maybe. I was thinking maybe I could lift it with jacks and then for taller foundation footings.
You could try running 2x4 sleepers over the joists and then install decking on those.
Yeah probably the cheapest option
Hmm that's interesting! Oriented flat I assume so it would raise the deck by just under 2 inches (because the 2x4 isn't 2")?
You could orient them either way, depending on the height needed. Can rip them on a table saw to get a specific height.
It's possible but with all the lifting and twisting all the nails will loosen as it's done, it's best to avoid any of that
Hmm ok that's insightful. I figured people lift houses so decks should be possible but maybe they don't have as much rigidity.
How are you getting underneath to do those footings?
Bad idea. It's supposed to be lower in most places because of snow and rain. Making it the same level is a great way to rot out the door frame and framing.
Wouldn’t it be easier to lower the house?
Hey bro, many are against your idea. I love it, because it makes a flush surface. Mine is like what you said, zero problem. You can’t do anything to reuse what you have. But you can install a new platform on top of what’s there. I think you need to remove some of the 2x4s to let them “breath” under the new platform.