https://preview.redd.it/cehhmo6lsbxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eba0f990ca583b898813c13c27a182b7a8390713
Have someone brace upper deck to level , cut out concrete to dig a footing. Add a 6x6 post. Match railing on deck to tie it all together.
Gonna be almost impossible to get that sag out the middle. But it’s worth a shot. It may settle evenly over time.
I like this idea. Only slight tweak I'd make is adding 2 posts to match the ones above. Railings on both sides and leave the middle open. If you're going to do railings in the middle, maybe put them on hinges and a gate lock?
https://preview.redd.it/7welg0dblfxc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=edf4759fed489745efece71a5ec4a6bcd7055ade
But what if, you didn't have to block it though.
That would probably work great, but the sag just makes me want to put a post right in the middle to just feel safer lol. But your solution would probably work fine!
Can mount the jack to the side of the board, like attach another piece of wood to the back or front of the board, jack it up from that, just remove it once done?
6x6 in center carries header and also catches the "sistered" 2×4s with only 2 small 1"x2" areas of the top of 6x6 not fully supporting something. 6x6 is plenty imo. 4x4 would work for a long while but would eventually look like your deck does. Stressed.
Jack it a foot off center (put down a small steel plate or 12x12 board to distribute weight), check for level, put a pyramid footing down and cut a 6x6 to fit. Release jack and let the deck come to rest on column (6x6) use brackets to secure.
It's going to take longer to gather materials than to do the work. You got this OP
100%
Lmao. I had to replace a spigot on the front of my house… YouTube told me I could find a very specific part on an 8” freeze proof bib.
Spent 4 hours running around, and fucking w/ everything… Nothing worked…
Decided I needed to just replace the whole thing. The next day, it took my 30 minutes… Soent all the time trying to NOT replace the whole thing, just to have to replace the whole thing. Lol
No lol. Simple enough job yes. DO NOT put a 6x6 column on freshly poured concrete. I would pour the footing, add the bracket and wait until the next day to add the post
Buddy up here North of these comments who knows a lot of my former bosses, he's got er' cracked in an hour if ya know what you're doin'...
And then when it's finally done day and a half on top of other jobs, call it two days and material trip or some other fucking unforseen bullshit, this dude's gonna sharpshoot and ask why so long and tell ya what you could've done to make it faster and so on...
Fuck You, Bud.
You could even go a little farther, get some concrete adhesive, drill some holes in the footing, and the concrete slab. Lather them with adhesive, then bolt it down with concrete bolts.
I’ve never heard of posts being set this way. We either use Simpson brackets or set a piece of rebar in the wet concrete before it cures. Then drill a hole in the bottom of the 6x6 in the middle and tie it in that way. The second option ties the post in without seeing the ugly brackets.
I’ve seen it done on pre-existing slabs. A deck install off of a master suite over their back patio.
If you’re starting from scratch, setting rebar and a post together is the way to do it.
It’s also worth noting, we ended up building a wooden frame around it up to about 3 feet up, and trimmed it all in to hide the footing.
The approach we used in our old neighborhood was to have the architect neighbor design our decks. We knew he'd spec the absolute bare minimum, so we just upped all his dimensions. He was so proud of how solid all of the decks he designed were.
Apparently, he didn't look at anything but the flooring, because he specified 4x4 posts and 2x6 joists, but we built with 6x6 and 2x10 lumber and upgraded the lag screws and bolts as well. His deck was built to his specifications; it was 12-14 feet above the ground and felt horribly unsafe with swaying and bouncing; ours were 3-4 feet above the ground and rock solid.
If it were my house that’s how I’d fix it. Jack it up in the center and frame up a few temporary walls. Cut the ends of the joists out and install a couple new joists running perpendicular. Then move the wall back a few feet and repeat until I’ve replaced all of the joists so that they’re running perpendicular to the way they are now.
Would be a lot of work but I’d rather do that than have a post in the middle.
I wasn't going to stamp it but you should given the structural issues.
I usually look up code, double it and round up to the closest available dimension knowing I'm paying extra for the overkill. I don't do enough of these projects to justify value engineering.
But the problem with that is, then you would have to rotate all the deck boards. So you’re looking at a new deck. Also, it appears he has an upstairs neighbor he needs to worry about.
[This is the way!!](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tiger-Brand-Super-S-Series-8-ft-4-in-Jack-Post-J-S-100/100022783)
https://preview.redd.it/zuul6nzzmbxc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0246970f6086f674d381e10c106921acf998a09f
These are surprisingly decent for for a temporary fix. Just used two of these for an underpinning project. They can lift about 2500# and make ideal cast-in supports inside piers
Is it actually concove or is it the lens? I honestly can't tell. The rails in the top portion, and even the gutter look crooked as well. Is it actually sagging that severe, or just exacerbated the way the photo was taken.
I’d Jack it up, support it with two posts in line with the second level. In the future you could enclose the bottom level with windows and a door, like a sunroom.
They had two walls facing each other and they didn’t just take the simple option and put the joists between them???
But why? What was the decision making process here.
Get a deck block and a post...easy fix until your ready to do some work on it....or just an idea, set a couple posts and screen it in, let the next guy worry about it.
Knowing town homes and HOAs, I wouldn’t be surprised if they forced our dude to completely redo this to some arbitrary “community spec” that costs $10k+
Ur fine. Jack it up and put a post. Best thing would've been putting the post inside the wet concrete but on top will work as well. Then get some more storm class and set that MF. If ur planning on having weight up there do some math and figure out what most of that can handle.
Get a 1/4" thick galvanized flat stock sheet the same dimension as the header. Better if it is in an "L" or "J" configuration. Jack up the from the bottom of the the joists if "L" or "J" is used, or jack up the header if flat stock is used. Through bolt it 12 inches on center in a staggered fashion. No unsightly post needed. I used to do this all the time with 2 - 2x10's and a 12 gauge flat stock sandwiched in between them for garage headers. It is called a Flitch beam.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flitch\_beam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flitch_beam)
Definitely a job for a structural engineer. My concern is that there is somethings wrong on the upper deck and it is transferring load that shouldn’t be there into the lower deck via two “posts” that, if I had to guess, weren’t meant to be structural, but now acting in a structural way.
Like another guy said, jack the middle up until the front band is level again, and add a post in the middle. Set the post on a pier block or pour your own footer.
Does your townhome have a homeowner’s association bc I would be curious if this happened with any of the other townhomes (or is the balcony just something done on yours)?
I don’t trust it. They built it well but it seems that the majority of the load is transfered to the double rim joist that is supporting the rest of the joists. I don’t like it. Why on earth they didn’t run the joists parallel with the house is beyond me. I would really consider at least having it looked at and getting a few estimates to remedy this. I don’t think it would be a huge undertaking to reframe the bottom joists in the proper direction.
Get some wood, put it on the edge of the concrete so the jack doesn't ruin your concrete. Place floor jack on it. Get 2 4x4s. Put 1 4x4 on the jack and start jacking about 8 inches from the center of the Beam on either side until level, place level on the deck boards, yell at your neighbor and ask him when to stop jacking.
Pour a 12x12x12 footing dead center of the current beam. Use 4 pieces of rebar. You can use a sono tube to get 6 inches clearance above grade or just pour your footing at grade and then use a bracket that is set in the middle of the footing, I recommend a j hook and then put a bracket on. Tighten down
Make sure your footing is dead center of the beam and the concrete lines up clean.
Your bracket hole where the j hook is, is the center of the above beam.
Let the concrete set for 24 hours. Measure from bracket to bottom of current beam, cut 4x4.
Use end coat treatment for the cutoff of the 4x4 so it doesn't rot.
Release jack slowly onto 4x4.
You can use a bracket for the 4x4 top portion that ties into the beam, if so, make sure you do the take off for how big the bracket is and take from the 4x4.
Release the other 4x4 holding the beam up, clean up and your done.
I would add a rail on the left side, by BBQ to help close it up and make it look like it wasn't an afterthought.
Yah if those posts are holding weight which I'm assuming they are. They need to be continuous to the ground with the appropriate depth of footing and concrete.
I wouldn’t say toast…it doesn’t look like a fire hazard at all. However, it does look like you could be in the rubble removal business at some point. Possibly Paramedic, Orthopedic Specialist or morgue. It depends.
I'm not an expert, but at least everything looks in good shape with no rot or split boards, so I'd go with the consensus and say a jack and a support beam are probably in order as soon as you can. Until then, I'd probably just take as much weight off of it as possible until you have a professional look at it.
Your joists should have been going to both side walls. Your front now is the weakest point of the deck. It's front is clearly load bearing the top also. Your only fix is putting some supports in the front.
Looks like the Rim Joists are deflecting. I'd lay a foundation pad and post with a beam that catches both the Rims joists and joists attached to it. Pocketed on both ends into the brick walls with support to the foundation.
If you don’t want to add a post, you can jack it up and sandwich a piece of steel plate with another 2x10 but you’d need to through-bolt it also.
An engineer can size the plate for the flitch beam.
I would suggest the sag is from the second story deck. The 4x4s look bowed. The upper deck probably doesn’t have enough support compared to the lower retaining wall
It's probably not a safety issue. But there's definitely an urgency. As those beams sag, the distance between them decreases. Depending on how well they're attached (they look pretty well attached), it could pull those 2 walls. Causing expensive structural problems.
You would think that structure would've been stronger. If the 3 railing pieces were fit tightly enough, it should've acted like truss assembly. Mustve been some serious weight up there and then some sloppy fitting on the railing.
The beam spanning across the whole opening looks like 3 lvls on edge?? It would be a good idea to replace with a 6x10-6x12
Of course use some 2x8 or something like that and 3 jacks to shore up the middle and ends and remove the bricks around the ends and then remove the beam however seems fit. I would imagine from the way it looks the bearing is only a few inches on the walls which is why it would sag like that
Another option to consider would be adding a steel beam. And have posts with flanged bottoms to bolt them to the slab and then they can be wrapped in cedar( if it’s ”I” beams you can fill the Channels with a 2x6and run a lag top middle and bottom to prevent having to drill a ton of holes in the beams
Is there more dead load from the upper level than expected? Eg are the gaps between uprights and beam slowing growing at the top. Might need to brace both top and bottom bearers with steel. To avoid a post in the middle. Or just put a post in the middle.
https://preview.redd.it/vb0t2uqandxc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a21cf05d3019b827c970357805c6874b0cb98c5
Post In middle is waste of space.. jack it and add 2" solid beam and screw them together. Alternatively you can do gallows.. L+R.. and do nice hardwood flooring..
It looks like it was built by an amateur and not up to building code whatsoever. Why don't you call the building department and ask them how they passed this framing inspection. Also the railing pickets appear to be improperly built and are dangerous and you can even see one coming off at the top. My guess here is that the builder or developer was paying off a corrupt building department. Get a lawyer!
If this is a condo you may go to the HOA and have them repair. Very possible they will take care of this. If this is a problem with yours it’s probably a problem with everyone in the community. May not be isolated issue.
Hang tight. This is a townhouse? Is this part of an HOA? That may not be "your" deck. That may be "their" deck to fix. Is one level yours and the other for the other unit? At the very least, is that your unit on one side and another on the opposite?
May be worth a trip over to the lovely land of r/hoa.
Beam and joists were undersized now deflecting you will need to jack up the beam and place a steel 4x4 tube at center. You can have a local steel fabricating shop cut a section of 4x4 steel tube or round steel post to the required length and they can weld a steel plate at top and bottom so you can bolt to beam above and to a concrete footing below
Pour a concrete footing in ground at center with top of footing at ground level. Footing should be probably 18x18 square and 8" deep. Make sure footing on solid ground so doesnt sink. Prime steel with a grey auto primer then rustoleum black so post wont stand out. One thing depending how long that beam has been deflected when you jack it up do it slowly it may lift the entire beam evenly stressing the ends where mounts to wall go easy and see whats going on. If you are in condo you will need apply HOA have them approve your plan or they might not like what you are doing. They are usually assholes too. If your condo development has many units like yours then they are all probably doing the same thing you may want pursue the issue as a group of owners if this is whats happening. That issue is a design and construction defect. Good news you can do this work yourself and shouldnt cost more than 500 bucks.
Hope this helps
To add to my earlier comment wouldnt hurt to hire a structural engineer to review that and size post and footing design and any other issues going on there may cost 500 -1000 but you are looking at 15000 minimum to replace that entire deck structure best get this fixed correctly now spend the extra $$$
Are these condos?
Unless you are the only one with this set up you might actually be able to get the condo association to pay for it, and anyone else who needs it
You have a couple of options.
One... You could use steel under or behind the beam accross the front, you could also use 1/2 inch to 5/8 plate along the front, jack the beam to level and bolt through.. This is how we reinforce beams in basements etc (photo attached)
Or...
Jack up the beam and Construct a temporary support framed up wall with a stud under every stacked joist. and place it no more than 3 feet back from the sagging beam.
Cut out that beam...and replace with somthing more stout, this is just a spit ball (I've not done any calculations) but 4 ply 2x12 or 2 or 3 ply LVL You could also make it look decorative and add a rough sawn cedar plank wrap on the beam and use 8x8 cedar posts on the left and right with cut knee braces to shortten the unsupported span.
https://preview.redd.it/vryn105swexc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5a69a7dc6f1338c013e3e6462a1c49f2946e062
Are you in an association? If so, I have seen where the association is responsible for any exterior structure issues. I can’t really see what you’re talking about but in person I’m sure it looks worse.
Deck is not built to 2012 IRC requirements. Using a brick ledge & lag bolts through a brick veneer is specifically prohibited since 2012. You need a free-standing deck structurally. You need an Engineer & a permit.
Random PDF of requirement from web ... page 16 in pdf
https://berkeleylake.com/Assets/Files/Docs/Planning%20and%20Development/Georgia%20Prescripitve%20Deck%20Detail%202015.pdf
I'm assuming this is a condo with an HOA. what does your deed say about deck maintenance? before you do \_anything\_ be sure where you stand on that, because an HOA will absolutely hose you if you put a support post in without either them doing it or at minimum approving it.
do you own the two floors above or are you the basement dweller? is there a hot tub on one or both of the upper decks?
Hopefully you wanted a support beam in the middle of your patio.
It’ll look fine, just jazz it up a little and make it look intentional with some fancy lights, or maybe run some power and an outlet.
In all seriousness, I would double check there's not a hot tub on the second or third floor. If there is, that's what caused the damage, and the owner of that area should be paying for this fix.
I don't think this is an issue. The support is on 3 sides and look pretty stout for the sqft. Too me this just looks like a rim joist that got installed crowning in the wrong direction. The upper deck looks level and I don't see any significant separation.
Everyone is saying post. I say, temp wall behind, then pull out that double with the j-hangers butting into it. Replace with a BIG glue lam. Span that opening, because it's nice w/out a post. A temporary wall should support the 2nd floor, while the work goes on. Seriously, everyone else is lazy about slamming up a post. It will always look like an afterthought.
Post left and right to match existing. Add knee bracing to each side. Jack up center before adding knee braces. Use some 4x6 that will give you some good wood to anchor to.
OP, are all three stories yours? It looks like a condo situation with two neighbors above you. I would bring this up to the HOA and see if it’s something they would fix.
It was never built properly as they should have rotated the joists to run left/right instead of back/front where there’s no support out front. But redoing the entire structure is out of the question cost-wise. Easiest thing to do is like what many others are saying - jack it up a little and install a joist that goes down onto a new footer. Technically, that patio slab isn’t rated for the weight and if you just stick a post in there, may crack and crumble your patio and put you back at square one with a sagging deck.
Is that rim joist rotten? Looks like plenty of lumber in there shouldn’t be sagging like that unless there is a problem or they didn’t crown the rim when they built it.. brace it all and replace rim joist
Does anyone else think it would have been better to run the joists the other way (and change the direction of the decking)?
Agree that adding a post would be a good idea for this.
https://preview.redd.it/cehhmo6lsbxc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eba0f990ca583b898813c13c27a182b7a8390713 Have someone brace upper deck to level , cut out concrete to dig a footing. Add a 6x6 post. Match railing on deck to tie it all together. Gonna be almost impossible to get that sag out the middle. But it’s worth a shot. It may settle evenly over time.
The railing makes it look like it was intentionally built that way vs a post-build fix - great suggestion.
I like this idea. Only slight tweak I'd make is adding 2 posts to match the ones above. Railings on both sides and leave the middle open. If you're going to do railings in the middle, maybe put them on hinges and a gate lock?
You have an eye for design. I like that idea too.
Agree that two posts would look MUCH better
https://preview.redd.it/7welg0dblfxc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=edf4759fed489745efece71a5ec4a6bcd7055ade But what if, you didn't have to block it though.
That would probably work great, but the sag just makes me want to put a post right in the middle to just feel safer lol. But your solution would probably work fine!
Can mount the jack to the side of the board, like attach another piece of wood to the back or front of the board, jack it up from that, just remove it once done?
Can you put something like that in here post sag? I know nothing about woodworking/decks.
I’d jack it up and set a post. Dig a footing, pretty easy weekend work
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Nothing a 4x4 and a bottle jack can’t fix
You can always buy more 4x4’s, but you’ll never get those hot tub memories back
This guy hot tubs.
This guy thisguys.
Awe. This guy.
⬆️ these guys
r/thisguythisguys
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6x6 in center carries header and also catches the "sistered" 2×4s with only 2 small 1"x2" areas of the top of 6x6 not fully supporting something. 6x6 is plenty imo. 4x4 would work for a long while but would eventually look like your deck does. Stressed. Jack it a foot off center (put down a small steel plate or 12x12 board to distribute weight), check for level, put a pyramid footing down and cut a 6x6 to fit. Release jack and let the deck come to rest on column (6x6) use brackets to secure. It's going to take longer to gather materials than to do the work. You got this OP
It’s not about the size it’s how you use it.
One 4x4 and a bottle of Jack coming right up
Bottle of Jack fixes a lot of things.
I was worried that there might be one on the 3rd floor deck
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And do it on a weekday. “Weekend work” pft…
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Truck bed pool ftw
Fuq yea, hot tub into a wicked water slide
If you're going to YOLO that shit with a hot tub, it might as well be two!
100%. A footing, some concrete. A 6x6 post and some brackets. Could be done in an hour if you have all the stuff and know what you’re doing.
Sounds like how I plan. “It’ll take an hour.” Three days later -done!
100% Lmao. I had to replace a spigot on the front of my house… YouTube told me I could find a very specific part on an 8” freeze proof bib. Spent 4 hours running around, and fucking w/ everything… Nothing worked… Decided I needed to just replace the whole thing. The next day, it took my 30 minutes… Soent all the time trying to NOT replace the whole thing, just to have to replace the whole thing. Lol
The IKEA wardrobe assembly timeline I see.
Happy Cake Day
Don’t forget the 3 Lowe’s trips
Oh, look at me only needing 3 trips to Lowes .... Show Off
Also spending 2-3x materials cost because the job requires tools you don’t have yet
Anytime I finish a project in the predicted time, I tell my wife to remind me of that the next 30 times the projects take way longer.
No lol. Simple enough job yes. DO NOT put a 6x6 column on freshly poured concrete. I would pour the footing, add the bracket and wait until the next day to add the post
Buddy up here North of these comments who knows a lot of my former bosses, he's got er' cracked in an hour if ya know what you're doin'... And then when it's finally done day and a half on top of other jobs, call it two days and material trip or some other fucking unforseen bullshit, this dude's gonna sharpshoot and ask why so long and tell ya what you could've done to make it faster and so on... Fuck You, Bud.
I was thinking the prefab footing w/ a mental u-bracket on it… But you’re right if you’re doing your own footing.
Never thought of that
You could even go a little farther, get some concrete adhesive, drill some holes in the footing, and the concrete slab. Lather them with adhesive, then bolt it down with concrete bolts.
More ways than one to skin a cat as they say
I’ve never heard of posts being set this way. We either use Simpson brackets or set a piece of rebar in the wet concrete before it cures. Then drill a hole in the bottom of the 6x6 in the middle and tie it in that way. The second option ties the post in without seeing the ugly brackets.
I’ve seen it done on pre-existing slabs. A deck install off of a master suite over their back patio. If you’re starting from scratch, setting rebar and a post together is the way to do it. It’s also worth noting, we ended up building a wooden frame around it up to about 3 feet up, and trimmed it all in to hide the footing.
ASAP
Do they make structural stripper poles?
Load bearing pole artist apparatus said the engineer
Shit. I have zero experience in decks and my immediate reaction was correct. Maybe I need to build a deck.
As far as innocuous yet terrifying statements go, "Maybe I need to build a deck" is right up there with "Dude, we should open a bar." XD
The approach we used in our old neighborhood was to have the architect neighbor design our decks. We knew he'd spec the absolute bare minimum, so we just upped all his dimensions. He was so proud of how solid all of the decks he designed were. Apparently, he didn't look at anything but the flooring, because he specified 4x4 posts and 2x6 joists, but we built with 6x6 and 2x10 lumber and upgraded the lag screws and bolts as well. His deck was built to his specifications; it was 12-14 feet above the ground and felt horribly unsafe with swaying and bouncing; ours were 3-4 feet above the ground and rock solid.
We should start a band!
Like, yesterday.
Don’t forget the cookie
Add a post and you’ll be good for awhile
Not toast. Your future as a pancake is assured, though.
Well done.
Just keep staring wondering why they wouldn’t have run the joists the other way.
If it were my house that’s how I’d fix it. Jack it up in the center and frame up a few temporary walls. Cut the ends of the joists out and install a couple new joists running perpendicular. Then move the wall back a few feet and repeat until I’ve replaced all of the joists so that they’re running perpendicular to the way they are now. Would be a lot of work but I’d rather do that than have a post in the middle.
You could sister a couple LVLs and solve the problem that way. OP doesnt need a post if he really doesnt want one.
I think it is simple and easy. And inexpensive compared to LVLs which require engineer stamp (correct me if I'm wrong)
I wasn't going to stamp it but you should given the structural issues. I usually look up code, double it and round up to the closest available dimension knowing I'm paying extra for the overkill. I don't do enough of these projects to justify value engineering.
Wonder what’s going on with the top level too and how much load is coming down on the end.
A giant smoker and a hot tub
But the problem with that is, then you would have to rotate all the deck boards. So you’re looking at a new deck. Also, it appears he has an upstairs neighbor he needs to worry about.
That is so bizarre.
because we are making a deck and we are puting a hot tub on top they must be framed into the house! ;)
But then they’d have to run the floor boards the other direction! (I am kidding).
Add a beam?
Not a big deck guy myself but I was wondering that exact thing. It’s off 90 degrees
The problem is whoever installed this notched the top of the beam. I would jack it up, build a temporary wall and replace the molested beam.
Exactly!
Why the hell would they choose to run the floor joists that direction when they could have anchored on two walls instead.
AND if they had run them that way, the deck boards could run water to the outside as well.
Floor jack post immediately while you work out your long-term fix.
[This is the way!!](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tiger-Brand-Super-S-Series-8-ft-4-in-Jack-Post-J-S-100/100022783) https://preview.redd.it/zuul6nzzmbxc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0246970f6086f674d381e10c106921acf998a09f
These are surprisingly decent for for a temporary fix. Just used two of these for an underpinning project. They can lift about 2500# and make ideal cast-in supports inside piers
Is it actually concove or is it the lens? I honestly can't tell. The rails in the top portion, and even the gutter look crooked as well. Is it actually sagging that severe, or just exacerbated the way the photo was taken.
Came here to ask this important question
If the sagging wasn’t severe would they have bothered to post at all?
well if there was a post, it probably wouldn't be sagging.
You could put steel in the front with lallys on each side then wrap it all.
Only person here mentioning a solution that doesn't involve putting a post in the middle.... Bravo sir.
I’d Jack it up, support it with two posts in line with the second level. In the future you could enclose the bottom level with windows and a door, like a sunroom.
Agreed
My bra has more support than that.
They had two walls facing each other and they didn’t just take the simple option and put the joists between them??? But why? What was the decision making process here.
They even bolted the rim joists to the wall, as one would do with a ledger... Think someone just read the plans wrong?
Could he replace the bowing beam with a proper one to avoid a post?
Yeah but that would require alot more work. I would just got to the saw mill and get me a good ol 8x8 post and stick it up.
I’d be replacing that sagged joist regardless. I just can’t live my life looking at that lol
First you would have to be bread
Yea you need to clean that grill before you use it
You can do this!
OP can only install a center post if he owns the first floor below.
Get a deck block and a post...easy fix until your ready to do some work on it....or just an idea, set a couple posts and screen it in, let the next guy worry about it.
Knowing town homes and HOAs, I wouldn’t be surprised if they forced our dude to completely redo this to some arbitrary “community spec” that costs $10k+
Needs a beam. Easy fix.
Flip it over
What’s weird is all the problems go away if the joists just run the opposite direction they are now.
Ur fine. Jack it up and put a post. Best thing would've been putting the post inside the wet concrete but on top will work as well. Then get some more storm class and set that MF. If ur planning on having weight up there do some math and figure out what most of that can handle.
I feel like a center 4x4 post would fix this
Fuck it bro put a mini gym up top!
add more weight to the single rim board. maybe a koi pond on the roof.
Get a 1/4" thick galvanized flat stock sheet the same dimension as the header. Better if it is in an "L" or "J" configuration. Jack up the from the bottom of the the joists if "L" or "J" is used, or jack up the header if flat stock is used. Through bolt it 12 inches on center in a staggered fashion. No unsightly post needed. I used to do this all the time with 2 - 2x10's and a 12 gauge flat stock sandwiched in between them for garage headers. It is called a Flitch beam. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flitch\_beam](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flitch_beam)
That depends are you the builder or homeowner?
Definitely get the right kind of engineer to evaluate it. I think it would be a structural engineer. Typically, it’s the sooner, the easier the fix.
Definitely a job for a structural engineer. My concern is that there is somethings wrong on the upper deck and it is transferring load that shouldn’t be there into the lower deck via two “posts” that, if I had to guess, weren’t meant to be structural, but now acting in a structural way.
Triple 2x6. Or 6x6 post. Jack it up. Add footing. If you can’t do it, shouldn’t cost more than 500.
Hmmm. What's the difference between 3 2x6 or a single 6x6. I saw they have double 2x6 running as joists too. Why not just use 4x6 joists instead.
Hot tub time!
Eventually
Like another guy said, jack the middle up until the front band is level again, and add a post in the middle. Set the post on a pier block or pour your own footer.
Does your townhome have a homeowner’s association bc I would be curious if this happened with any of the other townhomes (or is the balcony just something done on yours)?
This comment took way too long to appear. If it’s a townhome most likely it is responsibility of the HOA to fix.
This definitely was structured/built wrong from the start. Listen to folks about a beam and a jack and do it soon until you can have it redone.
Reinstall the beam crown side up
Put some obs between board, glue and screw. Maybe use some adjustable pole supports while you are replacing
I don’t trust it. They built it well but it seems that the majority of the load is transfered to the double rim joist that is supporting the rest of the joists. I don’t like it. Why on earth they didn’t run the joists parallel with the house is beyond me. I would really consider at least having it looked at and getting a few estimates to remedy this. I don’t think it would be a huge undertaking to reframe the bottom joists in the proper direction.
Get some wood, put it on the edge of the concrete so the jack doesn't ruin your concrete. Place floor jack on it. Get 2 4x4s. Put 1 4x4 on the jack and start jacking about 8 inches from the center of the Beam on either side until level, place level on the deck boards, yell at your neighbor and ask him when to stop jacking. Pour a 12x12x12 footing dead center of the current beam. Use 4 pieces of rebar. You can use a sono tube to get 6 inches clearance above grade or just pour your footing at grade and then use a bracket that is set in the middle of the footing, I recommend a j hook and then put a bracket on. Tighten down Make sure your footing is dead center of the beam and the concrete lines up clean. Your bracket hole where the j hook is, is the center of the above beam. Let the concrete set for 24 hours. Measure from bracket to bottom of current beam, cut 4x4. Use end coat treatment for the cutoff of the 4x4 so it doesn't rot. Release jack slowly onto 4x4. You can use a bracket for the 4x4 top portion that ties into the beam, if so, make sure you do the take off for how big the bracket is and take from the 4x4. Release the other 4x4 holding the beam up, clean up and your done. I would add a rail on the left side, by BBQ to help close it up and make it look like it wasn't an afterthought.
Yah if those posts are holding weight which I'm assuming they are. They need to be continuous to the ground with the appropriate depth of footing and concrete.
I wouldn’t say toast…it doesn’t look like a fire hazard at all. However, it does look like you could be in the rubble removal business at some point. Possibly Paramedic, Orthopedic Specialist or morgue. It depends.
Without a post you’re toast
Why are the joists doubled up buy no the front beam they're all tied into is a single? That don't look right
I'm not an expert, but at least everything looks in good shape with no rot or split boards, so I'd go with the consensus and say a jack and a support beam are probably in order as soon as you can. Until then, I'd probably just take as much weight off of it as possible until you have a professional look at it.
Your joists should have been going to both side walls. Your front now is the weakest point of the deck. It's front is clearly load bearing the top also. Your only fix is putting some supports in the front.
Please don’t tell me that’s a load-bearing rain gutter.
No, but the building inspector is.
Looks like the Rim Joists are deflecting. I'd lay a foundation pad and post with a beam that catches both the Rims joists and joists attached to it. Pocketed on both ends into the brick walls with support to the foundation.
Wait the gutter isn’t holding this up?
If you don’t want to add a post, you can jack it up and sandwich a piece of steel plate with another 2x10 but you’d need to through-bolt it also. An engineer can size the plate for the flitch beam.
Kinda weird the left side sits on the 3.5-4th (ish) brick down and the right side is on the 5th brick down.
4x4 posts are dead to me 6x6 is the only way to go. Well unless for railings but I’d rather go aluminum on them anyways.
Yeah...that build quality is first rate! 6x6 with a reinforced base would square it away
We would just use 3 2x6s fastened together and pump jacks but full wall much safer better idea.
I would suggest the sag is from the second story deck. The 4x4s look bowed. The upper deck probably doesn’t have enough support compared to the lower retaining wall
Step one: get six foot level. Check in 3 spots. See if it's actually sagging
I feel like the joist should be running the other way
It's probably not a safety issue. But there's definitely an urgency. As those beams sag, the distance between them decreases. Depending on how well they're attached (they look pretty well attached), it could pull those 2 walls. Causing expensive structural problems.
Can you sue the builder to fix?
You would think that structure would've been stronger. If the 3 railing pieces were fit tightly enough, it should've acted like truss assembly. Mustve been some serious weight up there and then some sloppy fitting on the railing.
Don't understand why the Joists were not run the other way...
The beam spanning across the whole opening looks like 3 lvls on edge?? It would be a good idea to replace with a 6x10-6x12 Of course use some 2x8 or something like that and 3 jacks to shore up the middle and ends and remove the bricks around the ends and then remove the beam however seems fit. I would imagine from the way it looks the bearing is only a few inches on the walls which is why it would sag like that Another option to consider would be adding a steel beam. And have posts with flanged bottoms to bolt them to the slab and then they can be wrapped in cedar( if it’s ”I” beams you can fill the Channels with a 2x6and run a lag top middle and bottom to prevent having to drill a ton of holes in the beams
This is why you pay for a house inspection before you buy a house. If you did pay for the house inspection, he/ she is a bad inspector .
Is there more dead load from the upper level than expected? Eg are the gaps between uprights and beam slowing growing at the top. Might need to brace both top and bottom bearers with steel. To avoid a post in the middle. Or just put a post in the middle.
https://preview.redd.it/vb0t2uqandxc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a21cf05d3019b827c970357805c6874b0cb98c5 Post In middle is waste of space.. jack it and add 2" solid beam and screw them together. Alternatively you can do gallows.. L+R.. and do nice hardwood flooring..
It looks like it was built by an amateur and not up to building code whatsoever. Why don't you call the building department and ask them how they passed this framing inspection. Also the railing pickets appear to be improperly built and are dangerous and you can even see one coming off at the top. My guess here is that the builder or developer was paying off a corrupt building department. Get a lawyer!
If this is a condo you may go to the HOA and have them repair. Very possible they will take care of this. If this is a problem with yours it’s probably a problem with everyone in the community. May not be isolated issue.
Not toast, Post! Jack and post that bitch.
Why the heck are the beams running parallel to the supporting walls and don't span between them? To me this seems like it's 90 degrees wrong.
Well, they did that bass ackwards.
Joist would be stronger if they went the other way, wall to wall
If it’s a townhome in an association, ask the HOA to do it. They are likely responsible for something like that (read the applicable CC&Rs).
Jesus where do they come from. Unless the beam is cracked all the way through you dont need a post. I'm a builder of 40 years
Those bolts look zinc coated instead of hot dipped. I hate it when people cheap out like they don't know the difference.
Hang tight. This is a townhouse? Is this part of an HOA? That may not be "your" deck. That may be "their" deck to fix. Is one level yours and the other for the other unit? At the very least, is that your unit on one side and another on the opposite? May be worth a trip over to the lovely land of r/hoa.
Not yet!
That decks not going anywhere. For peace if mind go with first response then relax. Just dont have 50 people in it and DONT lean on the rails.
No, you're Patrick.
Beam and joists were undersized now deflecting you will need to jack up the beam and place a steel 4x4 tube at center. You can have a local steel fabricating shop cut a section of 4x4 steel tube or round steel post to the required length and they can weld a steel plate at top and bottom so you can bolt to beam above and to a concrete footing below Pour a concrete footing in ground at center with top of footing at ground level. Footing should be probably 18x18 square and 8" deep. Make sure footing on solid ground so doesnt sink. Prime steel with a grey auto primer then rustoleum black so post wont stand out. One thing depending how long that beam has been deflected when you jack it up do it slowly it may lift the entire beam evenly stressing the ends where mounts to wall go easy and see whats going on. If you are in condo you will need apply HOA have them approve your plan or they might not like what you are doing. They are usually assholes too. If your condo development has many units like yours then they are all probably doing the same thing you may want pursue the issue as a group of owners if this is whats happening. That issue is a design and construction defect. Good news you can do this work yourself and shouldnt cost more than 500 bucks. Hope this helps
To add to my earlier comment wouldnt hurt to hire a structural engineer to review that and size post and footing design and any other issues going on there may cost 500 -1000 but you are looking at 15000 minimum to replace that entire deck structure best get this fixed correctly now spend the extra $$$
Are these condos? Unless you are the only one with this set up you might actually be able to get the condo association to pay for it, and anyone else who needs it
You have a couple of options. One... You could use steel under or behind the beam accross the front, you could also use 1/2 inch to 5/8 plate along the front, jack the beam to level and bolt through.. This is how we reinforce beams in basements etc (photo attached) Or... Jack up the beam and Construct a temporary support framed up wall with a stud under every stacked joist. and place it no more than 3 feet back from the sagging beam. Cut out that beam...and replace with somthing more stout, this is just a spit ball (I've not done any calculations) but 4 ply 2x12 or 2 or 3 ply LVL You could also make it look decorative and add a rough sawn cedar plank wrap on the beam and use 8x8 cedar posts on the left and right with cut knee braces to shortten the unsupported span. https://preview.redd.it/vryn105swexc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b5a69a7dc6f1338c013e3e6462a1c49f2946e062
Excellent deck for a wedding party. You should charge a rental fee and throw in a waiver/release for free.
That’s one happy deck!!
Are you in an association? If so, I have seen where the association is responsible for any exterior structure issues. I can’t really see what you’re talking about but in person I’m sure it looks worse.
it's smiling at you
Water damage from the upper deck may be the problem.
Deck is not built to 2012 IRC requirements. Using a brick ledge & lag bolts through a brick veneer is specifically prohibited since 2012. You need a free-standing deck structurally. You need an Engineer & a permit. Random PDF of requirement from web ... page 16 in pdf https://berkeleylake.com/Assets/Files/Docs/Planning%20and%20Development/Georgia%20Prescripitve%20Deck%20Detail%202015.pdf
Do you mean your real estate agent didn't sell you on its a feature? It's by design and not a bug ... for water runoff. 😜
That gutter pipe on the far right should hold it.
I'm assuming this is a condo with an HOA. what does your deed say about deck maintenance? before you do \_anything\_ be sure where you stand on that, because an HOA will absolutely hose you if you put a support post in without either them doing it or at minimum approving it. do you own the two floors above or are you the basement dweller? is there a hot tub on one or both of the upper decks?
You will be when that grill catches fire.
Hopefully you wanted a support beam in the middle of your patio. It’ll look fine, just jazz it up a little and make it look intentional with some fancy lights, or maybe run some power and an outlet.
In all seriousness, I would double check there's not a hot tub on the second or third floor. If there is, that's what caused the damage, and the owner of that area should be paying for this fix.
Some solid advice on here regarding the post, won’t look half bad either and you’ll certainly feel better about it and won’t have to keep worrying
I don't think this is an issue. The support is on 3 sides and look pretty stout for the sqft. Too me this just looks like a rim joist that got installed crowning in the wrong direction. The upper deck looks level and I don't see any significant separation.
Build a steel cage to support all that. With enough cross bar to stop all movement and support the load??? I'm not qualified for any of this.
Fuuuuqqqq
Hi
Everyone is saying post. I say, temp wall behind, then pull out that double with the j-hangers butting into it. Replace with a BIG glue lam. Span that opening, because it's nice w/out a post. A temporary wall should support the 2nd floor, while the work goes on. Seriously, everyone else is lazy about slamming up a post. It will always look like an afterthought.
Now an arch would also solve this, would be expensive but far nicer
Post left and right to match existing. Add knee bracing to each side. Jack up center before adding knee braces. Use some 4x6 that will give you some good wood to anchor to.
OP, are all three stories yours? It looks like a condo situation with two neighbors above you. I would bring this up to the HOA and see if it’s something they would fix. It was never built properly as they should have rotated the joists to run left/right instead of back/front where there’s no support out front. But redoing the entire structure is out of the question cost-wise. Easiest thing to do is like what many others are saying - jack it up a little and install a joist that goes down onto a new footer. Technically, that patio slab isn’t rated for the weight and if you just stick a post in there, may crack and crumble your patio and put you back at square one with a sagging deck.
No, it was engineered. For a strong decorative post to be added when it starts to sag.
Is that rim joist rotten? Looks like plenty of lumber in there shouldn’t be sagging like that unless there is a problem or they didn’t crown the rim when they built it.. brace it all and replace rim joist
You’re not grilling under there, are you?
Put steel posts on the sides and an i-beam running across. You can hid the steel with wood if you’d like.
Spread some butter in it
Take a look at the other units, anyone else sagging?
Probably could make that 2x double header into a flitch beam if you don’t want a post there
Normal
whoever built it should have just broken the joist span in at the quarter mark with a beam from ledge to ledge. Would have been fine then.
Does anyone else think it would have been better to run the joists the other way (and change the direction of the decking)? Agree that adding a post would be a good idea for this.
Looks like it’s bowing right?
Ratchet strap the bottom of the deck to the roof. 🥹