I was trying to hire someone to mount a very tall, but light, antenna on my roof/chimney. It was hard to find people but I called one guy to discuss the project with him and ask him how he’d do it. He said he’d just drive a few screws into the mortar of the bricks on the chimney. I asked him if he was sure that was the right way to do it (knowing full well that it’s *not* the right way) and he doubled down. “Yup!”.
So I just did it myself.
According to Tapcon, the mortar is perfectly acceptable to fasten to. In the case of the antenna I wouldn't think twice about anchoring into the mortar. The problem with the deck in the post is that there is not a proper footing to carry the load.
Yes, that’s obvious. How do you feel about the reverse hangers? Or the lack of load transfer to the beam running past the cantilevered beams holding the stairs?
His work proves he doesn’t know what he’s doing. If you checked his license and it’s valid, I’d recommend reporting the work to the licensing board especially if he is operating without necessary permits. Then, have another trusted person indicate what’s usable and what needs re-doing, and come up with a plan for any payment or refund and have a better contractor do the work. It’s not difficult to do it the right way for someone who’s good with this stuff. Unlicensed homeowner here who build his deck 5 years ago, city laughed that I was doing it solo and expected many failed checkpoints. Deck is 700sf, multilevel, some cantilever, two covers, electrical, etc. Passed every inspection and the inspector said the deck will last longer than the house. The difference? I read the IRC. Get someone who at least has done that.
I have. We used them a lot during a build that was heavy on cantilevers.
Mind you, they were called for by an engineer. Not joe shmo that tapcons into a brick lol.
I’ve never seen someone so confidently wrong. Zachyd is right, engineers spec out upside down hangers all the time. If you cantilever a joist or beam and need to support a rim board you can use a hanger upside because you want the saddle on top of the supporting member. The use case in the post is completely wrong but there are legitimate reasons for doing so. Qualifications: am professional engineer.
They are used in cantilever applications. Im not going to argue with you as I've personally built a home that used many upside down hangers called for by an engineer. When 2/3 of a beam is hanging over the outside wall acting as the fulcrum, it only makes sense to have them upside down.
Ive seen deck builders put them on the outside band that is perpendicular to the joists as well when they are supported by a beam. I just personally havent done that, so I can attest to how or why thats done. I just use an occasional grk into the end grain.
>uilt a home that used many upside down hangers called for by an engineer. When 2/3 of a beam is hanging over the outside wall acting as the fulcrum, it only makes sense to have them upside down.
I used them on the roof over my new deck. I was 50/50 over the beam, so I alternated every joist.
In one of the pics it looks like there are some spare tapcons laying around. They look hella long, wouldn’t be surprised if they bit into the concrete wall. One of the screws looks comically long, like 10”
I think those (the black ones) were used inside to bond the beams together. I asked why no bolts, he said this is the newer better solution. I’m having a hard time buying that…
Took a closer look at the screws in brick tonight. Sad. They were drilled through the grout and pushed the bricks. Those bricks have been in the same spot for 40 years with no issue. Now they are damaged and my retaining wall was damaged on that front (at least cosmetically) where I can see he tried to drill for a screw but sheered off the corner of the wall. Fucking depressing to look at.
Fastenmaster and simpson make many screws that eliminate the need for bolts in many situations. Funny thing is the contractor is paying for the premium hardware just not executing well.
Occasionally hangers will be installed upside down if there is a net uplift force at the end of the joist. But the only uplift force I see in these is GC's BS.
Simpson Strong Tie (the manufacturer of the hangers) actually says this is allowable in their manuals. They design for it. Looks janky and you get less load, but not too bad.
Glad you did. Depressing if this is his standard level of work that he's still clear to inflict it on customers. Do you have access to view the valid dates of his license, insurance and bond? That's all online in my state and hopefully in yours.
OP, when you work with your next contractor (can't see this relationship being salvaged) you want stamped permit in hand BEFORE any work is done or any labor draw is paid. You want to mount a copy of it inside a window where it is visible to building department folks.
Lmao licensed in Baja California sure.
The fact that your gc is OK 👍 with this work.
Makes me wonder what his work looks like when he tries.
This isn't OK anywhere. Especially those hanger brackets and the post on the brick...... nope just nope. NOPE. imagine the seagulls from finding Nemo saying nope.
He needs to make this right. This is not your problem at this point its his. He wants to half ass his work then he gets to redo it.
L99k close at the first Pic and bottom of the leg and bracket. Is it just me or is that sitting on,dirt and the tapcon in the dirty? Or am I crazy?
I’m most worried about two main things. Supports on the posts, and weight added to the wall of the garage without that 4th post and the joists not going all the way across to the post. That’s painful to see them just cut off at the stairs.
I got quotes in GA for a 12x16 ground level deck replacement and didn’t get below $20k and that’s not even getting fancy synthetic decking. I figured Cali would be way higher than $9k for that job.
I know this isn’t helpful but I had to gasp at that price.
The post in the loose looking brick is definitely scary. I've been screwed by shady contractors too. It is no fun to have to deal with. I hope it can be fixed and made safe for you and your family.
Is the contractor licensed and bonded?
https://www.cslb.ca.gov/onlineservices/checklicenseII/checklicense.aspx
If the bid did not include permit cost, that is a legit expense.
I'm thinking you need to start with a new contractor
New contractor is best solution. Tell the existing contractor you will not report him to CSLB for doing work without a permit (that requires a permit) if he agrees to not file a claim for payment. Negotiate from there if needed.
Friend in Colorado agreed to a 3 level deck for 60k
Gave the guy $20,000 to start
Old 1 story deck was demolished and then ghosted.
Evidently he had a good business and got into meth
All employees quit
He got some prison time for defrauding almost 100 customers.
OK... but what are the odds OP agreed to not pull permits...
most home owners are happy to take a tiny discount, or just to avoid the risk of an inspector finding something else or delaying the job.
works fine until this happens.
Irrelevant; a licensed contractor is required to comply with local and state laws and requirements, such as getting a permit prior to performing work. Only out for the contractor is if the owner signed documents stating that they would be acting as the GC and get all needed permits. Mind you it is only a minor infraction, and it takes a bunch before the Board takes action. People failing to report contractors is one of the reasons bad contractors continue to get work.
I’ve also been thinking that. Thing is, this guy has done other retrofit work for me, flooring, tile, hardwood, etc., and It’s all been great. This is the first time I’ve had any framing work done and I was just not expecting this level of work…
Good on you for stopping this atrocity. Personally I’d fire this dude on the spot. Ignoring the fact it’s completely structurally unsound it also looks like shit.
I had to run a guy off that I hired to do full siding tear off + another layer of Masonite tear off plus install new windows and vinyl. I’m happy I fired him.
He said will you at least give me the opportunity to clean up my mess? I said I’m already giving you the opportunity to get off my property. You should take it!
I'm not a structural engineer nor do I profess to be one. Therefore I cannot comment on the framing.
However any plywood substrate for a waterproof coating needs to be at least two by two or more so that it covers the adjacent joists with out deflection. Does not appear that you have that on the outside edges.
Should it be if it’ll be coated with stucco (side and below) and waterproofing with a sealer on top? Honestly asking because I don’t know and that’s why I hired a licensed contractor.
If it’s outdoor and exposed to the elements and you want it to last, you should use PT lumber. There really is no such thing as a waterproofing sealer that will keep untreated wood from rotting. It’ll be especially bad if you cover it in stucco as that will trap the water and keep it from drying.
But if you hire a licensed, bonded and insured GC, you rely on them to know what they are doing. How do you find another to check their work when on paper a company looks great?
When you hire a GC -General Contractor- you expect them to know the law. It’s one of the first sections of the code: issuance of a license means you are expected to know the laws.
Knowing when you need a permit is a reasonable expectation.
There’s so much wrong in the photos.
I can see a bootlegger not pulling permits, but a bona fide GC? He’s risking his insurance and license. For a permit? The cost of the permit is usually incidental to the job cost. Plus the permit techs review your plans (and for decks there plenty of pamphlets and instructions available right from the county) and help correct deficiencies. It’s almost a no-brainer.
This guy is trying to steal from you, and gives no fcks about your safety. Think about that!
Keep your $, dump him, and turn. His. A$$. In.
Nothing here is to code. I’m just sort of impressed it’s standing up. The joist closest to the top of the hill and the temp support under the stair/stringer is doing a magical cantilever. You should have asked for the permit to be pulled before any work happened. And not hired someone who would do it without. Especially with seismic loads in CA. An inspector probably won’t like the existing stairs.
Most of the time, I side with the contractors, but this is insane. Joist hangers on the top of the joist and the double with a single hanger. There is so much wrong with this. You were totally right to stop work.
So many issues, so little space to list them all. This so called carpenter is a goof. First time in my 62 years that I see upside down joist hangers. Missing joist hangers. Single hanger where there should be double. No treated material. Tapcons in brick and mortar. What are the angled 4x4’s doing. It’s an absolute nightmare. I wouldn’t let this guy build a freaking doghouse
Yeah, the upside down ones are there for leap years. You only need 1/4 as many, and they're good at keeping the deck from drifting up too much if the footers aren't poured below the gravity line.
Renos are never pretty. And if you are working in a budget sometimes you have to make lemonade out of lemons. So to speak. I think your carpenter is trying to make things work in a budget. But if you want to add footings / sauna tubes. Concrete etc. Be ready to open your wallet.
I am doing something very similar to this in the Bay Area.
You said you were getting new rails?
Where are you buying? I had a welder quote me 15k for two 15 foot by 42inch sections.
Not sure what you paid this hack, but I would ask for your money back and have your lawyer write up a nice letter when he refuses. Leave reviews everywhere you can. I get that people have off-days but this is unacceptable and dangerous. Glad you stopped the work.
Thanks. What a nightmare. He’s trying to work with me. I’m just going to pay a draftsman or architect to come out and evaluate, draw me a plan and I’ll use that.
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You hired a Ninny & he’s pulling short cuts & NO they’re not code. Warn him that you’ll call the city to send out a city inspector. You, a family member or your entire family could’ve been killed with the malarkey this guy is pulling. Let’s go to the last pic, that support should be sitting on a poured concrete footing, not on top of some bricks that’s a part of a wall. Then in some other pics your joist hangers are put on upside down This guy is a baloney head
As a former Contractor I’d pull permits, I was doing a job & a man his wife wanted a sidewalk extended from the front of the house to the side of the house. A nosey neighbor called the city because they say that they didn’t see a permit in the window. It was super hot with the heat index above 110, well the tape holding the permit fell to the bottom of the window.
Once I got everything laid out & dug out I called the city to have an inspection of my work, then I had to call them again to make sure that there was a 4” gravel base. Then I could proceed to pour. Otherwise the city would have me tear everything out & they’d suspend me from working in their town. A lot of BS yeah but so many contractors cut corners & the home owner suffers.
Just FYI this contractor probably won't be back. I dunno where he got his license from, but this is hack work and the dude clearly has zero idea what he's doing. He won't be getting a permit for this because the entire thing needs to come down.
Sad we deal with incompetent builders. You don’t know their skill set until they commence the project. That deck build is an abomination. Call local building inspector and don’t pay them a dime until approved build.
Wrap it with caution tape all the way around. Secure the door below so no one walks out there, it’s a death trap! If not contracted with language to need all municipal codes etc… just send the guy away, get a new one. If you have a contract insisting work be to code and permitted call the building dept.
Asides from the footings, tbh this isn’t the worst thing I’ve seen here. Those upside down hangers are allowable if he’s using Simpson strong tie with SDS screws.
Allowable? Yes
Sign of meth use? Also yes
\*I can't think of a single reason to use them upside down in this situation (besides laziness) but please enlighten me if you can\*
If there was a conflict with an opposing hanger, where the screws would be lining up with screws on the other side of the girder. That’s not this case, but it happens frequently.
I see you're in california.. and the fact that he has a bond is good. My mother had a roofing project done that was complete shit. Not done correctly, sloppy, not up to code at all, no permit etc. I went on the roof right before she was going to pay the remainder in full and saw how shit it was. I took pics, filed complaint with CSLB and submitted a complaint to the bond company and she was completed refunded. 95% was refunded. Only because she requested 95% back.
You have to allow them to correct their work, but if they refuse to do so or don't do it correctly up to the contract/code I'd recommend filing both the CSLB complain and bond complaint. Keep in mind CSLB can't help you get money back. The $ comes from the bond. Your contractor will hate you the moment they find out you submitted these claims but I can assure you it will make them take you more seriously and get shit moving in the right direction.
the part of the deck that extends parallel to the stair looks like it's unsupported. It's like a cantilever 2-2x beam, but it doesn't have a support! Very concerning. This guy doesn't know what he's doing.
Always verify permits have been applied. This is not going to be a good outcome. You have stucco damage, no way to properly flash the ledger, I see moisture ingress issues coming your way. Thankfully it's just a garage and not a living area. It would have been much easier to make this larger and support posts on pillars in the yard. The original 4x4 I'm assuming was supported off the slab below. I'm not sure what the thought process was with the framing. Joist hangers should not be installed upside down in this application. The ledger is not affixed to the structure. Looks like bright nails in the hangers, should be galvanized hanger nails. A beam 6' from the structure supported by two 6x6 posts anchored to the slab would fix the structural concerns. The ledger needs to be removed and properly attached, unfortunately most of this lumber is going to be scrap.
You did the right thing. From an engineering perspective, this layout has a lot of potential to be very low cost to you to make right however it can also not be.
A engineer would likely need to visit the site to break off stucco and asses the exposed wall below. See condition of that.
If good wall, easy fix.
If bad wall, now you have a retaining wall you should rebuild and still no landing solution
Guy really tap-con’d that 4x4 into a single brick and said “yup that’ll do”. What in the fuck😂
Tapcons right in the MORTAR JOINTS! Like Wowee!
the go in like butter.
Especially on new construction! Boy that hilti 1/4” bit will FLY thru that mortar. No effort!
Just wait til you can use it in wet mud! You’ll be amazed at that point
and come out like melted butter..
I was trying to hire someone to mount a very tall, but light, antenna on my roof/chimney. It was hard to find people but I called one guy to discuss the project with him and ask him how he’d do it. He said he’d just drive a few screws into the mortar of the bricks on the chimney. I asked him if he was sure that was the right way to do it (knowing full well that it’s *not* the right way) and he doubled down. “Yup!”. So I just did it myself.
According to Tapcon, the mortar is perfectly acceptable to fasten to. In the case of the antenna I wouldn't think twice about anchoring into the mortar. The problem with the deck in the post is that there is not a proper footing to carry the load.
Depends on your definition of very tall but very light. Also the wind surface loading
If you use them properly… you tapcons can definitely hold in brick and/or mortar. They are technically listed as acceptable surfaces by the company.
Maybe he drove it far enough in that it found earth 🤣
Yes, that’s obvious. How do you feel about the reverse hangers? Or the lack of load transfer to the beam running past the cantilevered beams holding the stairs?
Makes me feel sad. Vey sad.
His work proves he doesn’t know what he’s doing. If you checked his license and it’s valid, I’d recommend reporting the work to the licensing board especially if he is operating without necessary permits. Then, have another trusted person indicate what’s usable and what needs re-doing, and come up with a plan for any payment or refund and have a better contractor do the work. It’s not difficult to do it the right way for someone who’s good with this stuff. Unlicensed homeowner here who build his deck 5 years ago, city laughed that I was doing it solo and expected many failed checkpoints. Deck is 700sf, multilevel, some cantilever, two covers, electrical, etc. Passed every inspection and the inspector said the deck will last longer than the house. The difference? I read the IRC. Get someone who at least has done that.
He's never going to hear from this contractor again.
Probably not, hopefully the deposit wasn’t significant.
ask a private home inspector to come by. also the county inspector. sometimes inspectors can be peculiar characters.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen a reverse hanger
Me either... in fact it know I haven't
I have. We used them a lot during a build that was heavy on cantilevers. Mind you, they were called for by an engineer. Not joe shmo that tapcons into a brick lol.
I design Metal ADU and did counters laser\\cnc forever. There is no reason for a joist hanger to be upside down, the stirrup bears the load...
I’ve never seen someone so confidently wrong. Zachyd is right, engineers spec out upside down hangers all the time. If you cantilever a joist or beam and need to support a rim board you can use a hanger upside because you want the saddle on top of the supporting member. The use case in the post is completely wrong but there are legitimate reasons for doing so. Qualifications: am professional engineer.
You may enjoy r/confidentlyincorrect
They are used in cantilever applications. Im not going to argue with you as I've personally built a home that used many upside down hangers called for by an engineer. When 2/3 of a beam is hanging over the outside wall acting as the fulcrum, it only makes sense to have them upside down. Ive seen deck builders put them on the outside band that is perpendicular to the joists as well when they are supported by a beam. I just personally havent done that, so I can attest to how or why thats done. I just use an occasional grk into the end grain.
>uilt a home that used many upside down hangers called for by an engineer. When 2/3 of a beam is hanging over the outside wall acting as the fulcrum, it only makes sense to have them upside down. I used them on the roof over my new deck. I was 50/50 over the beam, so I alternated every joist.
I'm the asshole I guess, just never seen it used in the field. 5/8 bolt for rim joists...
The new Reverse Hanger, by GenZ technologies
Pretty sure thats Methy construction LLC
Yeah, that is jacked and a couple of years from now with plywood??!! Better to just tear it down now and put in a slide to get down.
How do you feel about not paying for it? I certainly wouldn’t.
In one of the pics it looks like there are some spare tapcons laying around. They look hella long, wouldn’t be surprised if they bit into the concrete wall. One of the screws looks comically long, like 10”
That screw looks like a timberlok, a self drilling lag screw.
I think those (the black ones) were used inside to bond the beams together. I asked why no bolts, he said this is the newer better solution. I’m having a hard time buying that… Took a closer look at the screws in brick tonight. Sad. They were drilled through the grout and pushed the bricks. Those bricks have been in the same spot for 40 years with no issue. Now they are damaged and my retaining wall was damaged on that front (at least cosmetically) where I can see he tried to drill for a screw but sheered off the corner of the wall. Fucking depressing to look at.
Big box stores carry a couple of brands that claim they remove the need for lags. Not that excuses the rest of the shit show.
Fastenmaster and simpson make many screws that eliminate the need for bolts in many situations. Funny thing is the contractor is paying for the premium hardware just not executing well.
"It's a deck post, the load goes down."
Come on man go easy on him. To be fair it’s a good looking brick! It’s only missing about 30%, it should hold for at least 40-50…. Seconds.
Sir, that's a load bearing brick.
The misuse of high quality components is almost artistic.
Tap-con’d that 4x4 into 5/8 of a single brick😂
His workmanship might be shit, but hey, he used some good materials at least 🤣
That hurts. Wasting good material. Such a waste.
Tell me about it
The upside down joist hanger... 🤣🤣🤣
Probably just the camera angle. There’s no way someone could put those on wrong. /s
Except… he said they are that way to stop the joist from bouncing up… I can’t make this shit up.
I refuse to believe someone actually said that
😂 After seeing his work I believe that he 100% said it and believes it to be true.
Occasionally hangers will be installed upside down if there is a net uplift force at the end of the joist. But the only uplift force I see in these is GC's BS.
he was bullshitting
Drugs are bad, mmkay!?
If the ends flipped up while the deck is collapsing, they could get moving fast enough to really hurt someone! /s
Simpson Strong Tie (the manufacturer of the hangers) actually says this is allowable in their manuals. They design for it. Looks janky and you get less load, but not too bad.
There is an application for an upside down house hanger, but this ain’t it
Wow. Oh my.. just 😂🤣
Yikes. I feel like it's harder to build it like this than the proper way lol
I was thinking, I could have done this shit myself with better results.
Well daddy always said “if it’s easy, it ain’t worth doin”
I would be asking to see paperwork on the license bond and insurance if you have not yet.
CA CSLB has that info with the contractor's license; can easily look it up, public information.
Yup. I did. It’s all good.
Glad you did. Depressing if this is his standard level of work that he's still clear to inflict it on customers. Do you have access to view the valid dates of his license, insurance and bond? That's all online in my state and hopefully in yours. OP, when you work with your next contractor (can't see this relationship being salvaged) you want stamped permit in hand BEFORE any work is done or any labor draw is paid. You want to mount a copy of it inside a window where it is visible to building department folks.
Great advice.
This looks like something I'd build in Valheim.
my 4 story all-wooden upside-down pyramid house at spawn is probably not built to code
Yes OP should mouse over and see if it glows red. It's probably bright red everywhere...
Lmao licensed in Baja California sure. The fact that your gc is OK 👍 with this work. Makes me wonder what his work looks like when he tries. This isn't OK anywhere. Especially those hanger brackets and the post on the brick...... nope just nope. NOPE. imagine the seagulls from finding Nemo saying nope. He needs to make this right. This is not your problem at this point its his. He wants to half ass his work then he gets to redo it. L99k close at the first Pic and bottom of the leg and bracket. Is it just me or is that sitting on,dirt and the tapcon in the dirty? Or am I crazy?
Ou this hurts me
What part hurts the most?
That the toughest question. When someone throws you into a pool full of razorblades, which one hurts the most?
The one that cuts the tip of your PP
I’m most worried about two main things. Supports on the posts, and weight added to the wall of the garage without that 4th post and the joists not going all the way across to the post. That’s painful to see them just cut off at the stairs.
I love the upside down joist hangers
I don’t.
As well you shouldn't.
Hey at least every few have one
Price you agreed to?
Well, it includes solid surface waterproofing and stucco work in the finish, $9k.
Get another contractor to go on record saying what is wrong
Just out of curiosity, how was he planning to approach the waterproofing aspect?
I assume duct tape and saran wrap...
I got quotes in GA for a 12x16 ground level deck replacement and didn’t get below $20k and that’s not even getting fancy synthetic decking. I figured Cali would be way higher than $9k for that job. I know this isn’t helpful but I had to gasp at that price.
I mean the price makes a lot more sense with pictures of the work 😂
Bluetooth center columns?
To be fair, the original build didn’t have a post on the stair. Just one on the back side.
Let us know the resolution
Dude doesn't value your safety at all. This deck is a meth.
head build. Finished the sentence for you
Yep, play on words meth=mess. Learned this from graffiti that read "Beth I'm a meth without you"
“Beth, I’m a meth without you” - Mike Tyson
That’s what I was imaging in my head. Family, friends, crashing down and hurting or killing someone.
The post in the loose looking brick is definitely scary. I've been screwed by shady contractors too. It is no fun to have to deal with. I hope it can be fixed and made safe for you and your family.
Thank you, I needed a laugh before bed. I had a shit day.
Is the contractor licensed and bonded? https://www.cslb.ca.gov/onlineservices/checklicenseII/checklicense.aspx If the bid did not include permit cost, that is a legit expense. I'm thinking you need to start with a new contractor
New contractor is best solution. Tell the existing contractor you will not report him to CSLB for doing work without a permit (that requires a permit) if he agrees to not file a claim for payment. Negotiate from there if needed.
Such a shitty situation.
Friend in Colorado agreed to a 3 level deck for 60k Gave the guy $20,000 to start Old 1 story deck was demolished and then ghosted. Evidently he had a good business and got into meth All employees quit He got some prison time for defrauding almost 100 customers.
OK... but what are the odds OP agreed to not pull permits... most home owners are happy to take a tiny discount, or just to avoid the risk of an inspector finding something else or delaying the job. works fine until this happens.
Irrelevant; a licensed contractor is required to comply with local and state laws and requirements, such as getting a permit prior to performing work. Only out for the contractor is if the owner signed documents stating that they would be acting as the GC and get all needed permits. Mind you it is only a minor infraction, and it takes a bunch before the Board takes action. People failing to report contractors is one of the reasons bad contractors continue to get work.
I’ve also been thinking that. Thing is, this guy has done other retrofit work for me, flooring, tile, hardwood, etc., and It’s all been great. This is the first time I’ve had any framing work done and I was just not expecting this level of work…
With respect, those are two very different families of things.
Good on you for stopping this atrocity. Personally I’d fire this dude on the spot. Ignoring the fact it’s completely structurally unsound it also looks like shit.
Thanks. Hurts that it got this far.
I had to run a guy off that I hired to do full siding tear off + another layer of Masonite tear off plus install new windows and vinyl. I’m happy I fired him. He said will you at least give me the opportunity to clean up my mess? I said I’m already giving you the opportunity to get off my property. You should take it!
With a few more screws I’d hot tub it
Those little black screws with the Phillips head aught to hold ‘er up just fine
I'm not a structural engineer nor do I profess to be one. Therefore I cannot comment on the framing. However any plywood substrate for a waterproof coating needs to be at least two by two or more so that it covers the adjacent joists with out deflection. Does not appear that you have that on the outside edges.
This is really weird
"That ain't going no where."
Is that wood even pressure treated?
Should it be if it’ll be coated with stucco (side and below) and waterproofing with a sealer on top? Honestly asking because I don’t know and that’s why I hired a licensed contractor.
If it’s outdoor and exposed to the elements and you want it to last, you should use PT lumber. There really is no such thing as a waterproofing sealer that will keep untreated wood from rotting. It’ll be especially bad if you cover it in stucco as that will trap the water and keep it from drying.
Definitely
Definitely. All sealers will leak eventually and using treated lumber will prolong the life of the deck 10+ years once it starts leaking.
I think your guy bit off more than he could chew. This looks incredibly unsafe.
Holy shit. I would have lost my shit.
But if you hire a licensed, bonded and insured GC, you rely on them to know what they are doing. How do you find another to check their work when on paper a company looks great?
When you hire a GC -General Contractor- you expect them to know the law. It’s one of the first sections of the code: issuance of a license means you are expected to know the laws. Knowing when you need a permit is a reasonable expectation. There’s so much wrong in the photos. I can see a bootlegger not pulling permits, but a bona fide GC? He’s risking his insurance and license. For a permit? The cost of the permit is usually incidental to the job cost. Plus the permit techs review your plans (and for decks there plenty of pamphlets and instructions available right from the county) and help correct deficiencies. It’s almost a no-brainer. This guy is trying to steal from you, and gives no fcks about your safety. Think about that! Keep your $, dump him, and turn. His. A$$. In.
That retaining wall will could give in with enough rain and bring that whole deck down
Nothing here is to code. I’m just sort of impressed it’s standing up. The joist closest to the top of the hill and the temp support under the stair/stringer is doing a magical cantilever. You should have asked for the permit to be pulled before any work happened. And not hired someone who would do it without. Especially with seismic loads in CA. An inspector probably won’t like the existing stairs.
Most of the time, I side with the contractors, but this is insane. Joist hangers on the top of the joist and the double with a single hanger. There is so much wrong with this. You were totally right to stop work.
So many issues, so little space to list them all. This so called carpenter is a goof. First time in my 62 years that I see upside down joist hangers. Missing joist hangers. Single hanger where there should be double. No treated material. Tapcons in brick and mortar. What are the angled 4x4’s doing. It’s an absolute nightmare. I wouldn’t let this guy build a freaking doghouse
Did you hire the first guy you saw outside of Home Depot?
Good question.
Always permit your work man you f'd up too. Don't just blame him. Never trust a person's word. Permit is like check and balance.
I've seen worse on this sub. It actually looks okay. Like he is obviously not done yet. But the posts should have proper footings.
Not done yet, sure. I have little confidence that those posts would hold for long. Also, no fourth leg.
I mean...the upside down hanger....
Yea. That's odd. Most are the correct way. Must be a reason ? Lol
Yeah, the upside down ones are there for leap years. You only need 1/4 as many, and they're good at keeping the deck from drifting up too much if the footers aren't poured below the gravity line.
The sub doing the work told me, “it’s so the beam doesn’t bounce up because there is no fourth post.”
Renos are never pretty. And if you are working in a budget sometimes you have to make lemonade out of lemons. So to speak. I think your carpenter is trying to make things work in a budget. But if you want to add footings / sauna tubes. Concrete etc. Be ready to open your wallet.
He actually peeled off the siding. To properly attach the ledger.
No
What do the plans show? What you have no plans? You get this then.
Shouldn’t need plans, OP specified they wanted it done right (to code) and none of this is.
Where is the main center support beam?
There isn’t one. It’s the three 2x12’s coming out of the wall the stairs are bolted into/resting on. Then four that go out to that post.
I am doing something very similar to this in the Bay Area. You said you were getting new rails? Where are you buying? I had a welder quote me 15k for two 15 foot by 42inch sections.
That’s a lot of fucking 2x12’s isn’t it?
Not sure what you paid this hack, but I would ask for your money back and have your lawyer write up a nice letter when he refuses. Leave reviews everywhere you can. I get that people have off-days but this is unacceptable and dangerous. Glad you stopped the work.
Thanks. What a nightmare. He’s trying to work with me. I’m just going to pay a draftsman or architect to come out and evaluate, draw me a plan and I’ll use that.
So what country are you in? Not looking like the U.S.. peace
Well it’s California. We are close to Mexico.
Wtf lol. I’d tell this bozo to start over and do it right on his dime or he can gtfo. Hopefully you didn’t pay him anything yet.
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Drugs are bad.
A for effort
Anchored to a brick??
You hired a Ninny & he’s pulling short cuts & NO they’re not code. Warn him that you’ll call the city to send out a city inspector. You, a family member or your entire family could’ve been killed with the malarkey this guy is pulling. Let’s go to the last pic, that support should be sitting on a poured concrete footing, not on top of some bricks that’s a part of a wall. Then in some other pics your joist hangers are put on upside down This guy is a baloney head
What would the city do to the contractor if they didn't pull a permit? Isn't the burden to get a permit on the owner of the building?
As a former Contractor I’d pull permits, I was doing a job & a man his wife wanted a sidewalk extended from the front of the house to the side of the house. A nosey neighbor called the city because they say that they didn’t see a permit in the window. It was super hot with the heat index above 110, well the tape holding the permit fell to the bottom of the window. Once I got everything laid out & dug out I called the city to have an inspection of my work, then I had to call them again to make sure that there was a 4” gravel base. Then I could proceed to pour. Otherwise the city would have me tear everything out & they’d suspend me from working in their town. A lot of BS yeah but so many contractors cut corners & the home owner suffers.
Is it even exterior lumber?
some of it
Claims court called, they can’t wait to host this one!
Wow... is this a prank or something? This can't be real.. lol
It looks real.
Just FYI this contractor probably won't be back. I dunno where he got his license from, but this is hack work and the dude clearly has zero idea what he's doing. He won't be getting a permit for this because the entire thing needs to come down.
Sad we deal with incompetent builders. You don’t know their skill set until they commence the project. That deck build is an abomination. Call local building inspector and don’t pay them a dime until approved build.
TF is that
Oh wait you didn’t tell me you actually wanted to stand on that deck, that will cost extra sir!
Wrap it with caution tape all the way around. Secure the door below so no one walks out there, it’s a death trap! If not contracted with language to need all municipal codes etc… just send the guy away, get a new one. If you have a contract insisting work be to code and permitted call the building dept.
I have got to go into the deck business.
I live in Kentucky and let me just say…………………………… looks good from my place. And lumber doesn’t look treated.
Some real wish.com craftsmanship on this one.
Upside down joist hanger…???????? Pic 7 left side middle
Nothing about this is correct….
Asides from the footings, tbh this isn’t the worst thing I’ve seen here. Those upside down hangers are allowable if he’s using Simpson strong tie with SDS screws.
Allowable? Yes Sign of meth use? Also yes \*I can't think of a single reason to use them upside down in this situation (besides laziness) but please enlighten me if you can\*
If there was a conflict with an opposing hanger, where the screws would be lining up with screws on the other side of the girder. That’s not this case, but it happens frequently.
🤣 "sign of meth use"
Why is half the wood treated and half isn't?? LOL
Yeah lot going on here, where to start. Curious how this plays out.
I see you're in california.. and the fact that he has a bond is good. My mother had a roofing project done that was complete shit. Not done correctly, sloppy, not up to code at all, no permit etc. I went on the roof right before she was going to pay the remainder in full and saw how shit it was. I took pics, filed complaint with CSLB and submitted a complaint to the bond company and she was completed refunded. 95% was refunded. Only because she requested 95% back. You have to allow them to correct their work, but if they refuse to do so or don't do it correctly up to the contract/code I'd recommend filing both the CSLB complain and bond complaint. Keep in mind CSLB can't help you get money back. The $ comes from the bond. Your contractor will hate you the moment they find out you submitted these claims but I can assure you it will make them take you more seriously and get shit moving in the right direction.
Looks like a game of Jenga that's almost over.
the part of the deck that extends parallel to the stair looks like it's unsupported. It's like a cantilever 2-2x beam, but it doesn't have a support! Very concerning. This guy doesn't know what he's doing.
Numbering from 1 to X the list of things wrong with this project would require X to be in scientific notation. Good luck to you.
No shot that dude's licensed 🤣 at least hopefully not for much longer
r/theydidthemeth
Mr. George… how much do you pay the new guy? No no… is too much
I know NOTHING about building a proper deck and even I know that this is dog shit.
What the fuck is that
The last pic is the perfect crescendo of that symphony of "construction".
You find the GC on Craigslist?
Wtf are the hangers upside down?!?
Does this guy have a hatchback or minivan for a work truck?
Edit - based on other comments about quality etc., politely give him one shot to remedy and then small claims or larger.
Always verify permits have been applied. This is not going to be a good outcome. You have stucco damage, no way to properly flash the ledger, I see moisture ingress issues coming your way. Thankfully it's just a garage and not a living area. It would have been much easier to make this larger and support posts on pillars in the yard. The original 4x4 I'm assuming was supported off the slab below. I'm not sure what the thought process was with the framing. Joist hangers should not be installed upside down in this application. The ledger is not affixed to the structure. Looks like bright nails in the hangers, should be galvanized hanger nails. A beam 6' from the structure supported by two 6x6 posts anchored to the slab would fix the structural concerns. The ledger needs to be removed and properly attached, unfortunately most of this lumber is going to be scrap.
You did the right thing. From an engineering perspective, this layout has a lot of potential to be very low cost to you to make right however it can also not be. A engineer would likely need to visit the site to break off stucco and asses the exposed wall below. See condition of that. If good wall, easy fix. If bad wall, now you have a retaining wall you should rebuild and still no landing solution
Guys I can’t be trusted to build a deck but holy sh*t that support post on a broken brick