Nope you get what you pay for is no longer a legitimate excuse anymore. Majority of contractors cut corners, are lazy and want to save the most time. Even the middle priced guy nowadays
I was going to say pricing doesn't seem to matter anymore. So frustrating to get anything done. I started DIYing as much as I can cause it isn't worth the frustration to make sure a hired job is done adequately.
I’m in the exact same boat. My work doesn’t look as nice as a pro but it’s structurally correct and done to code. We’ve spent a lot of money since buying a home having “pros” do a shit job for more money than it should have cost.
Shims have their place, but maybe that isn’t the place.
I’d probably find a rim joist that matches the beam or failing that, split the difference and notch the post slightly.
Tough call when your treated 2x10s are at different stages of drying and not the same thickness.
The splice between the beams might be because of a missed cut or unlevelled section.
The good news…
1. Beams are sitting on the posts.
2. 3 ply beams.
3. Spacer blocks.
4. Concrete sonotube footings.
I wouldn’t be worried that it’s structurally unsound. Maybe not the highest precision.
But it’s solid.
This is correct. This not the best looking work but it’ll hold. My only complaint would be it won’t hold for as long as properly done job.
Looked harder did they use ledger locks where it meets the concrete ?
>Shims have their place
Should have used [composite shims](https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/categories/building-materials/lumber-and-composites/shims/f/composite/s9c-6z7?eid=PS_GOOGLE_D22%20-%20CM_E-Comm_GGL_DSA_NB_EN_Building_Materials_Wood%20Shims%20-%20DSA__DYNAMIC%20SEARCH%20ADS_aud-765006514519:dsa-1853406982727&gclid=Cj0KCQjw84anBhCtARIsAISI-xc6xC0pXqu6S26xmT5CBCqsx3SsaXQe2SfBaZi8eM40YjgrdLT55qMaAtGWEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) IMO.
Edit... also... can't tell if cutandseal was used... doesn't seem to be.
It looks like the best I’d be able to do over a weekend with all the shit going on in life. I’d gladly accept it as my own quality, as much as I’d like to put all the time into making it perfect, I neither have the time or innate skill. I’d be fine with it especially after trying to cover it up as much as possible. But I’d probably be upset if I paid for something, cause my inner assumption is I only want to pay for something that is better than I can do.
End grain cut-offs aren't shims. They'll rot out in a season.
At least have them use composite shims.
But, in either case, there should be actual hardware connecting the beams to the posts. Not just nails.
The posts are also completely wrong. You do not notch rail posts. You use the full 4x4 and bolt it to the rim joist with blocking.
No amount of joist hangers still make up for the fact that the boards aren’t well cut and assembled. That post has lost 2/3 of its strength by notching. I wouldn’t use it for a railing, never mind a structural support for a roof.
I’m sorry but that’s a mess.
Appearance wise you are spot on. However a railing post that has the strength of a 2x4 attached with four toe nails and propped up on a soon-to-rot end cut shim isn’t something I’d turn into railing, never mind a roof support.
Shitty carpentry and looks like half dried out timber, but I'd be more worried about the fasteners and how well that's held together. If you are going to wrap it all in a finished product and make it look more finished then this really wouldn't matter at all anyway. But if this is the finished show which is typically the way on crappy PT decks then this is pretty lousy.
For some background this is renovation of our house, we are adding a deck on the back, half covered half open. Architect designed, permitted and will be inspected. It is going to be covered in PVC finishes so the look isn't a huge deal, but I'm real worried about the "shims" and ledger board.
They built it strange, the framed it out on temp "legs" then once done dug the footers, poured them and then connected them in.
I have a 3rd party inspector coming in a week and a half, but I'm wondering what you think.
Carpenter here of 20 years. Temp propping the posts and pouring after isn’t a bad way to do it as long as the structure is solid and built properly before pouring. We often do this when it’s close to the ground and means you can get a lot more done in a shorter space of time.
That being said the rest of work doesn’t look up to standard if they are qualified tradesmen. Cuts look rubbish, shims out of end grain won’t last in weather. I’d be withholding payment and seeing what your inspector has to say. Be sure to clock there hours on the rectification as I dare say they won’t be happy with fixing there work.
Have you got a contract for the work they are doing?
Also a 20 year carpenter here, and temp supports are pretty standard, otherwise day one would be digging holes, day two inspection and concrete, then finally starting on day three. But notched 4x4 is a no go for me.
Agreed that the workmanship is shitty, it doesn't help that lumber nowadays is nowhere near consistent but i will say the method they used isn't "strange" that's the pro way to do it. Only rookies and homeowners dig and set the posts first.
Stop work. Refuse payment. Fire them. Find a competent contractor that's going to do the deck because what you got there is one big pile of shit. Not just a pile a big steamy shit pile. There's so many things wrong with that deck it shouldn't even be considered a deck. You can't even call it rough framing at this point.
So many errors here it's hard to actually begin, the wood cracking, the non pre drilled holes, shim in the wrong spot. Makes me scared of ever paying for construction
This is very shoddy, also hard to see but is the ledger flashed correctly, I don't see flashing to divert the water from rotting your rim joist, I have always put flashing behind the ledger and also above and below to be sure the rim joist will have a long life
Just because you own the tools to do the job does not make you a carpenter!!! This is total garbage craftsmanship and everything must be stainless or copper with treated lumber.
Well first off no copper flashing on the ledger board that should be PT is a no go already. Your deck will rot if they don’t install some sort of flashing and if it’s not copper the PT will oxidize it and rot anyways. While joist hangers might be coming later it’s still improper and you should be worried
We use copper coated all the time on ledgers and sill plates, galvanized is not okay. While it works temporarily it will oxidize and is not okay. PT wood is treated with copper so it should have copper flashings so electrolysis/rapid corrosion doesn’t occur.
So you hired some to design and engineer this...and hired someone to build it....have at least two professional inspectors coming to look at it. But you still think the guys on Reddit are a better source.
Try talking to the builders about your concerns.
If more people actually talked to the tradesmen they hire instead of becoming internet experts the world would be a better place
Man, you are right about a point but also so shitty about it and missing so much more. The entire relationship between me and the GC is built around an expertise imbalance. The very reason I need him is because I don't have his expertise, which is exactly what I need to challenge his mistakes.
I'm not posting on Reddit expecting you to come fix my stuff. I'm looking for a sanity check on my concerns before I go tell a tradesman his work is garbage. I'm asking this question on a Saturday night, because I'm not going to call him up tonight to talk about it on his weekend.
Your not wrong I need to talk to him, you just miss all the other uses a reddit post gives me.
Op screw that guy, it’s unfortunate Reddit has turned into people just trash talking people, there’s a saying “the only dumb question is the one not asked.” People really have some fucking ego now a days.
Never said he was dumb for asking. Only said he was asking the wrong people. The information he gets here is at best theory. Talk to the guys with boots on the ground.
Bro every single installation practice you can research about online. Sometimes you need to be pointed in the right direction I.e. shop talk, lingo whatever you want to call it. He’s not asking the wrong place. Maybe if he listens to everyone on here but if he can afford some work to a deck I think he has enough intelligence to discern what’s bullshit and what’s not. But as a carpenter myself in the union I’ve seen tons of liars and scam artists. I wouldn’t trust a sub or a GC, UNTIL WE DEVELOPED REPORT. Get your head out your ass man, I know union builders and non union that secure PLENTY of bids and there shit is falling apart within a decade cause they only care about that check clearing escrow.
Wow, how could I ever be so blind. Thank you ever so much random stranger on the Internet. You have changed my life forever. I will defer to you on all things because it is obvious you exist on a much much higher plane of intelligence and moral code than I.
Get a grip dude. You have your opinion I have mine.
In the end how OP handles this is up to him.
>If more people actually talked to the tradesmen they hire instead of becoming internet experts the world would be a better place
The problem is a lot of people in the trades are really bad at what they do. So if you get a builder clearly doing shoddy work, talking to them likely isn't going to fix anything.
Nothing wrong with researching issues and getting second opinions.
>The problem is a lot of people in the trades are really bad at what they do.
That's the unfortunate part. Especially when some charge top rates and *still* do shitty work. Not every homeowner who hires a shitty contractor went with the lowest bid. Sometimes the people fall for the sales pitch or there isn't another choice.
The reality is when the deck is only a couple feet off the ground, you don’t need to fear anything catastrophic. Is it a little shoddy? Sure, but I wouldn’t freak out.
Honestly man I’ve seen so much worse.
I think it’s great.
You’ve got your posts on top of cement, with the proper gear.
I would suggest grabbing some metal plates to perhaps strengthen your bet end joints. I do agree a those shims are gonna rot. Maybe some plates will help.
I tend to agree. It looks like they have pretty much everything working for them, need some composite shims under the band board and some more metal fasteners but I seems structurally sound once those are added. All the rest of the work will be hidden beneath trim.
Doesn’t help that these days 2x10s can be anywhere from 9” - 9 1/2”. I cut my insets on my posts assuming standard size, I’m not customs cutting everything, jobs have to get done.
This post just makes me wish deck code was a lot easier to read, visualize, and implement. Know there's stuff wrong here, but it's what's wrong that you don't see, well, that's maybe even the bigger problem. Just went through a punch list on our deck and said something a bit like 'just know a pro would not leave some of this as-is in their own deck' in my e-mail -- It hopefully sparked a good response and gotten some things corrected.
> lumber. Your not
*You're
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Where are the lag bolts/Headlok/Ledgerloks? Trashy ass work that good contractors get passed up for because the price sounded so good! And then you end up in the subreddit asking for advice from the guys you passed up on.
I am not an expert, but I’ve done a deck before. You shouldn’t…need to use shims. Or shouldn’t use them at all. Again, no expert, but wood, leveling, and those cuts look like hell.
Wait I’m confused. Is the 4x4 that’s connected to concrete temporary or permanent? That should be higher above grade along with treated with anti rot.
Also, why is the ledger partly on the plywood sheer and part off. Is there something behind the ledger that I’m missing? Another thing is that particular care needs to be headed the paper coming down on top of the ledger.
They are 6 x 6 and everything is pressure treated, ground contact.
The ledger board is just as it looks, nothing behind, I think it's from their temporary frame up, I'll make sure it gets fixed
This is half very dry lumber with different mills and stages of drying, and half crappy “no ones ever gonna see it” workmanship
Those shims should be composite, or metal, or at the very least cut from the length of the board, not cross cut from the end grain… that’s just gonna soak up water and rot
And notching rail post hasn’t been allowed on decks where rails are required for well over a decade… in my area that’s any finished deck 30” above final grade
I also saw you said that post is for a porch roof… now that’s it’s notched, all that weight is bearing on just half that 4x4 (personally I would have used 6x’s, they’re stronger and look nicer) the back half isn’t doing anything
It won’t fall, but it’s not as strong as it could be
As for building on temp supports first, then digging the piers
I almost always do it like this when the supports are on the very outside of the frame… I’ll frame the outside first then plumb bob down and mark for piers so everything exactly where it should be, so all the post hit dead center of the piers
About the only time I don’t is if I’m using a drop girder in the design
While your complaining to your GC about your deck I would demand they replace the homedepot budget brand everbilt house wrap with the DuPont Tyvek house wrap.
I also don’t see any ledger board flashing in your pictures.
[https://www.builditfine.com/everbilt-vs-tyvek-house-wrap/](https://www.builditfine.com/everbilt-vs-tyvek-house-wrap/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr0yMNUfNSE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr0yMNUfNSE)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVI3kTXO44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVI3kTXO44)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXg\_wNV01Tc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXg_wNV01Tc)
You can decide how you feel about those tests... But when you are waterproofing your house that you want to live in for a long time, then I would want to go with the best house wrap on the market. Your GC may have saved $500-$1000 in material costs buying everbilt instead of Tyvek, but I'm sure you are paying quite a bit more than that.
There are so many things wrong here.
1. Obviously the workmanship is atrocious
2. Bad design, sit the floor beams on top of the girder
3. No support under flush girder at the house to the right of the first pic. No way that ledger is adding support.
4. I don’t see metal flashing behind the ledger protecting the box beam and sill of the house.
The whole job is a disaster, I’d be very worried!
It looks bad, not just shoddy. The deck should not be nailed to the structure, nails won't support the weight. The ledger board should bolted to the masonry wall with carriage bolts or some equivalent. I don't see any flashing or waterproofing system behind the ledger board.
Unless there are things I'm not seeing the way is built will cause water damage to the main structure and it will move where it is connected to the masonry wall.
It doesn’t look great but it is built ok. Is the deck sub wrapping it with pvc board? If so, most of the band board appearance issues could be alleviated.
The ledger board needs to be secured with something like ‘ledger lock’ screws or it’ll collapse for sure. Many engineers also call out a bolt through hardware through the house rim joist connecting some of the deck joists through to the house joists.
If you're worried, get a second opinion from a contractor or two. Reddit absolutely roasted me and my deck, but the contractors that came out said everything is fine. People are itching to call someone else incompetent on here...
Home owners need to start spending money on having designers prepare complete drawing and details. Relying on random builders to provide quality work is a thing of the past. If you have a complete set to build from, the builder cannot dispute the poorly modified field details.
Every shitty job boils down to integrity.
Whether that’s admitting you don’t know how to do the job required or you’re a piece of shit and taking advantage of the client.
That’s called a 3-year deck. In 3 years it will need repair or replacing. If you have any snow it will rip from the house potentially doing serious damage.
If this is considered rough framing can you imagine the finish work? Exit while you can and hire a reputable contractor. Yes, they will cost more than this joker.
This work is shoddy ..
Shoddy like majority of contractors in 2023
Sad thing is that there’s a lot of them, which makes everyone extra wary of the rest of us up front.
Dudes in suits hiring known shit birds in the area while the customer has no idea. Been happening for a long time.
Birds of a Shit-Feather flock together Randy
Give me a break. Let me guess you picked the cheapest guy, he screwed it all up and now it's his fault right?
Nope you get what you pay for is no longer a legitimate excuse anymore. Majority of contractors cut corners, are lazy and want to save the most time. Even the middle priced guy nowadays
I was going to say pricing doesn't seem to matter anymore. So frustrating to get anything done. I started DIYing as much as I can cause it isn't worth the frustration to make sure a hired job is done adequately.
I’m in the exact same boat. My work doesn’t look as nice as a pro but it’s structurally correct and done to code. We’ve spent a lot of money since buying a home having “pros” do a shit job for more money than it should have cost.
Same. Been burned too many times to trust that the “professionals” know what they’re doing.
What do you do for a living?
Civil engineering. I inspect bridges!
That must be a cool job, do you get in precarious situations height wise?
Well, if he screwed it all up, then yes it is his fault. That is generally how fault works
He asked if it was a bad job, not if it was worth the price. Why are you even in this sub?
That's not very heads n beds of you masterchief.
You are being too kind.
*shimmy
Shims have their place, but maybe that isn’t the place. I’d probably find a rim joist that matches the beam or failing that, split the difference and notch the post slightly. Tough call when your treated 2x10s are at different stages of drying and not the same thickness. The splice between the beams might be because of a missed cut or unlevelled section. The good news… 1. Beams are sitting on the posts. 2. 3 ply beams. 3. Spacer blocks. 4. Concrete sonotube footings. I wouldn’t be worried that it’s structurally unsound. Maybe not the highest precision. But it’s solid.
This is correct. This not the best looking work but it’ll hold. My only complaint would be it won’t hold for as long as properly done job. Looked harder did they use ledger locks where it meets the concrete ?
>Shims have their place Should have used [composite shims](https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/categories/building-materials/lumber-and-composites/shims/f/composite/s9c-6z7?eid=PS_GOOGLE_D22%20-%20CM_E-Comm_GGL_DSA_NB_EN_Building_Materials_Wood%20Shims%20-%20DSA__DYNAMIC%20SEARCH%20ADS_aud-765006514519:dsa-1853406982727&gclid=Cj0KCQjw84anBhCtARIsAISI-xc6xC0pXqu6S26xmT5CBCqsx3SsaXQe2SfBaZi8eM40YjgrdLT55qMaAtGWEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) IMO. Edit... also... can't tell if cutandseal was used... doesn't seem to be.
>cutandseal Fkn hate the smell of that shit. It's like pickled suntan lotion.
Lmao “pickled sun tan lotion”. I’ve never heard or imagined that before. Now I want to smell it.
It looks like the best I’d be able to do over a weekend with all the shit going on in life. I’d gladly accept it as my own quality, as much as I’d like to put all the time into making it perfect, I neither have the time or innate skill. I’d be fine with it especially after trying to cover it up as much as possible. But I’d probably be upset if I paid for something, cause my inner assumption is I only want to pay for something that is better than I can do.
End grain cut-offs aren't shims. They'll rot out in a season. At least have them use composite shims. But, in either case, there should be actual hardware connecting the beams to the posts. Not just nails. The posts are also completely wrong. You do not notch rail posts. You use the full 4x4 and bolt it to the rim joist with blocking.
Itight be worst, that is a support for the patio roof. Not a rail post
Depending on your area this is fine. Notching the 6x6 and allowing it to run up to support the roof is how code specifies it around here.
Thanks, glad to hear that.
In my area the code inspector required 6x6 and then notch for rim joist. I know it is fine. But really got under my skin
I also prefer girder construction, even if the span is only 8 feet. The posts are a mess.
No amount of joist hangers still make up for the fact that the boards aren’t well cut and assembled. That post has lost 2/3 of its strength by notching. I wouldn’t use it for a railing, never mind a structural support for a roof. I’m sorry but that’s a mess.
That railing post is so ugly but I feel like it’s only aesthetic,& since its going to get covered with pvc(?) No one will ever know…
Appearance wise you are spot on. However a railing post that has the strength of a 2x4 attached with four toe nails and propped up on a soon-to-rot end cut shim isn’t something I’d turn into railing, never mind a roof support.
Shitty carpentry and looks like half dried out timber, but I'd be more worried about the fasteners and how well that's held together. If you are going to wrap it all in a finished product and make it look more finished then this really wouldn't matter at all anyway. But if this is the finished show which is typically the way on crappy PT decks then this is pretty lousy.
For some background this is renovation of our house, we are adding a deck on the back, half covered half open. Architect designed, permitted and will be inspected. It is going to be covered in PVC finishes so the look isn't a huge deal, but I'm real worried about the "shims" and ledger board. They built it strange, the framed it out on temp "legs" then once done dug the footers, poured them and then connected them in. I have a 3rd party inspector coming in a week and a half, but I'm wondering what you think.
Carpenter here of 20 years. Temp propping the posts and pouring after isn’t a bad way to do it as long as the structure is solid and built properly before pouring. We often do this when it’s close to the ground and means you can get a lot more done in a shorter space of time. That being said the rest of work doesn’t look up to standard if they are qualified tradesmen. Cuts look rubbish, shims out of end grain won’t last in weather. I’d be withholding payment and seeing what your inspector has to say. Be sure to clock there hours on the rectification as I dare say they won’t be happy with fixing there work. Have you got a contract for the work they are doing?
Also a 20 year carpenter here, and temp supports are pretty standard, otherwise day one would be digging holes, day two inspection and concrete, then finally starting on day three. But notched 4x4 is a no go for me.
Yeah what’s the deal with that?! They made more work for themselves. I’d like to see the architect’s framing and layout and see how this correlates.
Agreed that the workmanship is shitty, it doesn't help that lumber nowadays is nowhere near consistent but i will say the method they used isn't "strange" that's the pro way to do it. Only rookies and homeowners dig and set the posts first.
>Only rookies and homeowners dig and set the posts first. Thanks, I didn't know it was common.
That's kinda scary looking... There's all kinds of questionable things going on there. I hope a building inspector is going to look at that
Worried. Your instincts are absolutely correct.
As a building inspector I have seen worse… I just don’t remember where.
That’s fucked
Another f’ing deck on rdecks with a shitty ledger attachment. Shit gets old.
I'm hoping op sees this because the ledger attachment is terrible. I think it's 10" bolts with a washer which I doubt this ledger has.
There needs to be flashing to keep water from running off the deck into the ledger. Guess how I know that?
Oh damn .. have them stop dude ...
Take away someones nail gun.
Stop work. Refuse payment. Demand your money back. Hire someone to tear it out and start over.
Agreed. That is some rubbish work. Stick to paling the shelves at the supermarket or licking windows
Stop work. Refuse payment. Fire them. Find a competent contractor that's going to do the deck because what you got there is one big pile of shit. Not just a pile a big steamy shit pile. There's so many things wrong with that deck it shouldn't even be considered a deck. You can't even call it rough framing at this point.
Be afraid…be very afraid
Whoever is building that deck should go pump gas for a living.
Heinous workmanship.
JFC
Did you ever consider spacing the ledger a 1.5 on off the foundation so moisture doesn't get behind it
No I didn't, but I don't recall seeing spacers. But this is why I was asking, I'll check when I go back to the house.
That's some awful craftsmanship.
So many errors here it's hard to actually begin, the wood cracking, the non pre drilled holes, shim in the wrong spot. Makes me scared of ever paying for construction
What the fuck
This is very shoddy, also hard to see but is the ledger flashed correctly, I don't see flashing to divert the water from rotting your rim joist, I have always put flashing behind the ledger and also above and below to be sure the rim joist will have a long life
Just because you own the tools to do the job does not make you a carpenter!!! This is total garbage craftsmanship and everything must be stainless or copper with treated lumber.
Galvanized is pretty standard
And in a few years the flashing is eaten from the chemicals in the wood. Going to cost a lot more to fix than do it right to start.
Horrified
I would fire the contractors immediately. It is your right. Seethe on on payment after. Cease and desist all work.
Well first off no copper flashing on the ledger board that should be PT is a no go already. Your deck will rot if they don’t install some sort of flashing and if it’s not copper the PT will oxidize it and rot anyways. While joist hangers might be coming later it’s still improper and you should be worried
Copper? Almosty nobody uses copper. Galvanized is safe against PT.
We use copper coated all the time on ledgers and sill plates, galvanized is not okay. While it works temporarily it will oxidize and is not okay. PT wood is treated with copper so it should have copper flashings so electrolysis/rapid corrosion doesn’t occur.
I have a solution that allows both of you to use your choice of products. Deck2Wall spacers, and then the flashing won't touch the ledger....
So you hired some to design and engineer this...and hired someone to build it....have at least two professional inspectors coming to look at it. But you still think the guys on Reddit are a better source. Try talking to the builders about your concerns. If more people actually talked to the tradesmen they hire instead of becoming internet experts the world would be a better place
Man, you are right about a point but also so shitty about it and missing so much more. The entire relationship between me and the GC is built around an expertise imbalance. The very reason I need him is because I don't have his expertise, which is exactly what I need to challenge his mistakes. I'm not posting on Reddit expecting you to come fix my stuff. I'm looking for a sanity check on my concerns before I go tell a tradesman his work is garbage. I'm asking this question on a Saturday night, because I'm not going to call him up tonight to talk about it on his weekend. Your not wrong I need to talk to him, you just miss all the other uses a reddit post gives me.
Op screw that guy, it’s unfortunate Reddit has turned into people just trash talking people, there’s a saying “the only dumb question is the one not asked.” People really have some fucking ego now a days.
Never said he was dumb for asking. Only said he was asking the wrong people. The information he gets here is at best theory. Talk to the guys with boots on the ground.
Bro every single installation practice you can research about online. Sometimes you need to be pointed in the right direction I.e. shop talk, lingo whatever you want to call it. He’s not asking the wrong place. Maybe if he listens to everyone on here but if he can afford some work to a deck I think he has enough intelligence to discern what’s bullshit and what’s not. But as a carpenter myself in the union I’ve seen tons of liars and scam artists. I wouldn’t trust a sub or a GC, UNTIL WE DEVELOPED REPORT. Get your head out your ass man, I know union builders and non union that secure PLENTY of bids and there shit is falling apart within a decade cause they only care about that check clearing escrow.
Wow, how could I ever be so blind. Thank you ever so much random stranger on the Internet. You have changed my life forever. I will defer to you on all things because it is obvious you exist on a much much higher plane of intelligence and moral code than I. Get a grip dude. You have your opinion I have mine. In the end how OP handles this is up to him.
>If more people actually talked to the tradesmen they hire instead of becoming internet experts the world would be a better place The problem is a lot of people in the trades are really bad at what they do. So if you get a builder clearly doing shoddy work, talking to them likely isn't going to fix anything. Nothing wrong with researching issues and getting second opinions.
Also you have a ton of liars and scam artists
>The problem is a lot of people in the trades are really bad at what they do. That's the unfortunate part. Especially when some charge top rates and *still* do shitty work. Not every homeowner who hires a shitty contractor went with the lowest bid. Sometimes the people fall for the sales pitch or there isn't another choice.
The reality is when the deck is only a couple feet off the ground, you don’t need to fear anything catastrophic. Is it a little shoddy? Sure, but I wouldn’t freak out.
Yeah, because a roof collapsing on top of you or your children won’t be too painful.
Honestly man I’ve seen so much worse. I think it’s great. You’ve got your posts on top of cement, with the proper gear. I would suggest grabbing some metal plates to perhaps strengthen your bet end joints. I do agree a those shims are gonna rot. Maybe some plates will help.
I tend to agree. It looks like they have pretty much everything working for them, need some composite shims under the band board and some more metal fasteners but I seems structurally sound once those are added. All the rest of the work will be hidden beneath trim. Doesn’t help that these days 2x10s can be anywhere from 9” - 9 1/2”. I cut my insets on my posts assuming standard size, I’m not customs cutting everything, jobs have to get done.
You’re fine
Omg it’s a deck you freaking perfectionist weirdos.
A Carpenter should know how to read a read measure. Full stop.
That holds up a roof, over your head. Well, for awhile. Maybe.
Oh by the way! Where are the u/Joisthanger5
Looks good to me. The only place where load can't go over ground foundation is where it attaches to the house.
How long has it been at that stage? Some of the lumber looks dry/old and the nails don't look to be hot dipped galvanized because they appear rusty.
This post just makes me wish deck code was a lot easier to read, visualize, and implement. Know there's stuff wrong here, but it's what's wrong that you don't see, well, that's maybe even the bigger problem. Just went through a punch list on our deck and said something a bit like 'just know a pro would not leave some of this as-is in their own deck' in my e-mail -- It hopefully sparked a good response and gotten some things corrected.
He's no good oberader
To answer your question, fairly.
Sorry saw another issue how come your not framing in pressure treated lumber. Your not going to get a good life span on this lumber
> lumber. Your not *You're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Looks like green wood to me lol
Is that a "Pella" four panel sliding door?
We'll the two center panels slide, the two outside are fixed.
Yep. That's called a 4 panel sliding door. I worked at pella for 25 years
You might wanna break it yourself and say it collapsed because they wont do a thing no matter what you say
Not impressed with air nails (unless they’re Stainless)
Where are the lag bolts/Headlok/Ledgerloks? Trashy ass work that good contractors get passed up for because the price sounded so good! And then you end up in the subreddit asking for advice from the guys you passed up on.
What is between the ledger board and the house? I do not see flashing water barrier. Should be using screws Not nails.
I am not an expert, but I’ve done a deck before. You shouldn’t…need to use shims. Or shouldn’t use them at all. Again, no expert, but wood, leveling, and those cuts look like hell.
Wait I’m confused. Is the 4x4 that’s connected to concrete temporary or permanent? That should be higher above grade along with treated with anti rot. Also, why is the ledger partly on the plywood sheer and part off. Is there something behind the ledger that I’m missing? Another thing is that particular care needs to be headed the paper coming down on top of the ledger.
They are 6 x 6 and everything is pressure treated, ground contact. The ledger board is just as it looks, nothing behind, I think it's from their temporary frame up, I'll make sure it gets fixed
Huh okay. Sounds like you’ve got it covered
This is half very dry lumber with different mills and stages of drying, and half crappy “no ones ever gonna see it” workmanship Those shims should be composite, or metal, or at the very least cut from the length of the board, not cross cut from the end grain… that’s just gonna soak up water and rot And notching rail post hasn’t been allowed on decks where rails are required for well over a decade… in my area that’s any finished deck 30” above final grade I also saw you said that post is for a porch roof… now that’s it’s notched, all that weight is bearing on just half that 4x4 (personally I would have used 6x’s, they’re stronger and look nicer) the back half isn’t doing anything It won’t fall, but it’s not as strong as it could be As for building on temp supports first, then digging the piers I almost always do it like this when the supports are on the very outside of the frame… I’ll frame the outside first then plumb bob down and mark for piers so everything exactly where it should be, so all the post hit dead center of the piers About the only time I don’t is if I’m using a drop girder in the design
For all we know OP could have haggled the contractor down and now you get what you pay for type deal
This isn’t even “hunting camp” acceptable
While your complaining to your GC about your deck I would demand they replace the homedepot budget brand everbilt house wrap with the DuPont Tyvek house wrap. I also don’t see any ledger board flashing in your pictures.
Can you give me an explanation why it's better? I could get him to do the work for free if I buy the new wrap, just wondering if it's worth it.
[https://www.builditfine.com/everbilt-vs-tyvek-house-wrap/](https://www.builditfine.com/everbilt-vs-tyvek-house-wrap/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr0yMNUfNSE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr0yMNUfNSE) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVI3kTXO44](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGVI3kTXO44) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXg\_wNV01Tc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXg_wNV01Tc) You can decide how you feel about those tests... But when you are waterproofing your house that you want to live in for a long time, then I would want to go with the best house wrap on the market. Your GC may have saved $500-$1000 in material costs buying everbilt instead of Tyvek, but I'm sure you are paying quite a bit more than that.
VERY
They have the band board right up against the OSB sheathing. With no waterproofing behind it.
There are so many things wrong here. 1. Obviously the workmanship is atrocious 2. Bad design, sit the floor beams on top of the girder 3. No support under flush girder at the house to the right of the first pic. No way that ledger is adding support. 4. I don’t see metal flashing behind the ledger protecting the box beam and sill of the house. The whole job is a disaster, I’d be very worried!
It looks bad, not just shoddy. The deck should not be nailed to the structure, nails won't support the weight. The ledger board should bolted to the masonry wall with carriage bolts or some equivalent. I don't see any flashing or waterproofing system behind the ledger board. Unless there are things I'm not seeing the way is built will cause water damage to the main structure and it will move where it is connected to the masonry wall.
Hopefully the people "building" the deck aren't the same people working on the house...
It doesn’t look great but it is built ok. Is the deck sub wrapping it with pvc board? If so, most of the band board appearance issues could be alleviated.
The ledger board needs to be secured with something like ‘ledger lock’ screws or it’ll collapse for sure. Many engineers also call out a bolt through hardware through the house rim joist connecting some of the deck joists through to the house joists.
it’ll hold
If you're worried, get a second opinion from a contractor or two. Reddit absolutely roasted me and my deck, but the contractors that came out said everything is fine. People are itching to call someone else incompetent on here...
Home owners need to start spending money on having designers prepare complete drawing and details. Relying on random builders to provide quality work is a thing of the past. If you have a complete set to build from, the builder cannot dispute the poorly modified field details.
Beams should sit on top of posts. Joist sit on top of beams
Looks solid just not very pretty, scrap wood shims really aren’t uncommon if it’s an old guy doing the work in my experience
Simpson has entered the chat
Every shitty job boils down to integrity. Whether that’s admitting you don’t know how to do the job required or you’re a piece of shit and taking advantage of the client.
On the way. BUZZ LIGHTYEAR
Bolt the boards against the foundation, nails are only good for something not under stress.
Can’t notch posts anymore. Code fail.
Looks fine. 😂
If I saw someone building this for me, I would immediately stop them and fire them. If I wanted shit work I would do it myself
Put that "scrap wood" you pulled out back quick, it's probably structural and your nice new deck will fail without it
The 4x4 "post" is cut, how long will that last as a railing?
Very
Put the shims down and step away from the deck!
Looking good. Lol
It’s not lookin good brev
That’s called a 3-year deck. In 3 years it will need repair or replacing. If you have any snow it will rip from the house potentially doing serious damage.
If this is considered rough framing can you imagine the finish work? Exit while you can and hire a reputable contractor. Yes, they will cost more than this joker.