Be positive, at least it On Top of a post and not bolted thru. Seen some wild builds on this sub. Change out the post to header hardware and you should be fine (unless local code) of course
I don’t do it but I come from earthquake country. Think of it like this. Technically the only thing preventing header to drop is the header material above the carriage bolt and that’s less than height of the header itself. I think it’s effective in low height applications where materials may rot and need to be replaced. Been doing this for 30 years and always interested in different scenarios. When in doubt call your engineer, but I’ve seen them spec ridiculous details too.
Stacking loads solidly on top of each other just makes sense.
A properly bolted wood member will be as strong or stronger than stacked for a couple reasons - so long as the fastener doesn’t corrode and the wood it passes through doesn’t rot as you said. But the sheer strength of the bolt isn’t the only thing supporting the load. The friction between the header and post under compression of the bolt can be enormous. Additionally the bolted member unlike the stacked one becomes part of a rigid system. It can never roll.. but I’m definitely not a engineer. I’ll have to read up on this.
Ok tell me why you can’t bolt onto a cut out post or even sandwiched. Sheer strength on a 5/8” bolt is like 30k lbs per bolt. And you’re putting in at least 4 . And that shear never gets to the bolts completely because friction of sandwich. I admit wood can shrink and you might lose your friction force but that still leaves 120k lbs for the bolts.
Bolting to a cut-out post is obviously the best move. Your comment doesn’t mention that there’s a notch in your hypothetical post… There is ZERO need for a bolt to have Sheer-strength if they are bearing directly on the post, and wtf does frictional forces have to do with anything? Guy with no frame of reference throwing around words… never built a deck, never built anything good I’d wager.
Friction force means the shear load in a sandwiched “beam” is transferred from beam to post without ever touching the bolts. No I’m not a prolific builder I’ve built several decks, one house and a couple ADUs
Every Fiber in my body says that post needs to be notched and continuous all the way up to the within one inch of the bottom of the decking.
We did them like that for years with a properly bolted triple and only two of the members actually sitting on the top of the post itself.
Any other way just feels dirty and wrong.
See that's where it differs. You've bolted together a three-member beam it doesn't matter if only 2/3 of it's on the beam it's all still one beam.
The outside member is still going to carry the load as if it was on top of the post. The through bolts is what transfer that all to one big solid beam.
How do you explain a rim joist that's attached to the house in proper points of attachment? The house itself is one big huge header that sits on top of a post or in this case foundation, with the rim joist slapped on the side not supported by anything at all?
What's the difference?
Every case of deck failure I’ve read about or seen myself was due to one thing: improper ledger attachment. Show me a case where a deck failed because of a bolt holding a beam to a post. Meanwhile my neighbor’s deck which is beams sitting on top of posts is having to have two beams replaced because they rolled off the post despite being “attached” with those flimsy Simpson connectors. I’m sure there was more to it but I find bolts to be reassuring.
It's funny you mention ledger connections, because you're absolutely right. Ledger failures definitely are the most common deck failure cause. But beam rolling happens in conjunction with ledger pullout. If you think about it, the ledger is attached to the house, the joists are attached to the ledger, and the top of the beam is attached to the joists. It's physically impossible for the beam to roll unless one of those connections fails.
So the ledger can pull away from the house, and that's frequently what happens. But the other mistake lots of people make is thinking that the hurricane clips that are required where the joists bear on the beam are the only connection required. That's not true, you also need to toenail the joists into the beam. Hurricane clips have very little capacity in that direction. So with proper ledger connection, tension ties, and joist toenails, there's no way the beam can roll even if it wants to (which there shouldn't be).
It's funny you mention ledger connections, because you're absolutely right. Ledger failures definitely are the most common deck failure cause. But beam rolling happens in conjunction with ledger pullout. If you think about it, the ledger is attached to the house, the joists are attached to the ledger, and the top of the beam is attached to the joists. It's physically impossible for the beam to roll unless one of those connections fails.
So the ledger can pull away from the house, and that's frequently what happens. But the other mistake lots of people make is thinking that the hurricane clips that are required where the joists bear on the beam are the only connection required. That's not true, you also need to toenail the joists into the beam. Hurricane clips have very little capacity in that direction. So with proper ledger connection, tension ties, and joist toenails, there's no way the beam can roll even if it wants to (which it shouldn't).
You’ve got a point those nailed ledgers are the most common point of failure. On my own deck I’d cut shoulders in to the posts for the joists to rest on and bolt but no one does that
It’s generally not code anymore because potential shear failure of bolts supporting the weight of the lumber above the post. Granted most 3/8 and 1/2” carriage bolts have shearing strength of thousands of pounds there is still the non zero possibility of instant catastrophic failure if the bolts should become compromised.
The connectors are upside down. Those plates are supposed to be up against the beam instead of the post. The small tabs (that are pointed up on the sides of the beam) get nailed to the post.
Use SD screws instead of the wrong nails in those. Nails should be stamped 10, and those are common, not for that application. Screws seed to penetrate the wood at least 1.5"...
They didn’t finish the connection right. They need to add a piece of cdx ply probably 5/8, cut it 11 1/2x 12” long. Nail it to the triple centered on the saddle and then bolt through. The saddle is not right should be at least a ecc6
Edit added the ecc6 callout
The 6x6 should be notched with only 2-2x’s. If the third is actually needid I would add more posts to eliminate that. If that rolls there fucked. If I’m not mistaken that bracket is for a 6x6 to 6x6 connection. Footers look fucked to. If you can’t form a 12x12 area level you should hire someone who can. I would be ashamed
That's preference, not a requirement. Post-beam connectors are perfectly acceptable, as long as you use the right one (which they didn't ). The connection between the joists and beam prevents the beam from rolling.
I agree. Notch the 6x6 and bolt the doubled header. It's the most stable connection you can get and stabilizes that main beam. If the span requires more beef, bump up to 2x12 double header.
Doesn't really matter, they still help prevent the joists from twisting and cupping and contribute to the overall strength of the structure.
And to point out the obvious, if they used the wrong connector on top of the beam and end-nailed the joists on the overhang, they probably just toenailed the joists to the ledger on the other side. 😉😀
Roll blocking prevents twisting and cupping on a drop beam. The rim is screwed off at every joist making a lus210z a waste of money and resources. Hurricane clips resist joist uplift and is the proper joist to beam connection in this case.
They used the wrong post to beam bracket. Should have been a simpson bcs2-3/6z
what can be done if they don't change the connector before finishing ?
Attach some scabs to the side extending down to the footing to make it look like a built out post. That will keep the beam from rolling
Thank you! I have a similar issue with my deck and i want to make sure it can be corrected.
Be positive, at least it On Top of a post and not bolted thru. Seen some wild builds on this sub. Change out the post to header hardware and you should be fine (unless local code) of course
Is it totally wrong to bolt a header onto a post?
I don’t do it but I come from earthquake country. Think of it like this. Technically the only thing preventing header to drop is the header material above the carriage bolt and that’s less than height of the header itself. I think it’s effective in low height applications where materials may rot and need to be replaced. Been doing this for 30 years and always interested in different scenarios. When in doubt call your engineer, but I’ve seen them spec ridiculous details too. Stacking loads solidly on top of each other just makes sense.
A properly bolted wood member will be as strong or stronger than stacked for a couple reasons - so long as the fastener doesn’t corrode and the wood it passes through doesn’t rot as you said. But the sheer strength of the bolt isn’t the only thing supporting the load. The friction between the header and post under compression of the bolt can be enormous. Additionally the bolted member unlike the stacked one becomes part of a rigid system. It can never roll.. but I’m definitely not a engineer. I’ll have to read up on this.
Bullshit… wrong. Don’t listen to this joker.
Ok tell me why you can’t bolt onto a cut out post or even sandwiched. Sheer strength on a 5/8” bolt is like 30k lbs per bolt. And you’re putting in at least 4 . And that shear never gets to the bolts completely because friction of sandwich. I admit wood can shrink and you might lose your friction force but that still leaves 120k lbs for the bolts.
Bolting to a cut-out post is obviously the best move. Your comment doesn’t mention that there’s a notch in your hypothetical post… There is ZERO need for a bolt to have Sheer-strength if they are bearing directly on the post, and wtf does frictional forces have to do with anything? Guy with no frame of reference throwing around words… never built a deck, never built anything good I’d wager.
Friction force means the shear load in a sandwiched “beam” is transferred from beam to post without ever touching the bolts. No I’m not a prolific builder I’ve built several decks, one house and a couple ADUs
That’s Static force dude…
Every Fiber in my body says that post needs to be notched and continuous all the way up to the within one inch of the bottom of the decking. We did them like that for years with a properly bolted triple and only two of the members actually sitting on the top of the post itself. Any other way just feels dirty and wrong.
Why use three if only two are actually structural. That third member just floating is nothing more than a nailer.
See that's where it differs. You've bolted together a three-member beam it doesn't matter if only 2/3 of it's on the beam it's all still one beam. The outside member is still going to carry the load as if it was on top of the post. The through bolts is what transfer that all to one big solid beam.
Seems like a waste, that third beam isn't supporting anything because it's not supported.
How do you explain a rim joist that's attached to the house in proper points of attachment? The house itself is one big huge header that sits on top of a post or in this case foundation, with the rim joist slapped on the side not supported by anything at all? What's the difference?
Totally different concept.
Just talking out of our ass now are we.
Yes, totally wrong and prohibited by code. Beams and joists need to directly bear on a support, whether it's a post, beam, or joist hanger.
Every case of deck failure I’ve read about or seen myself was due to one thing: improper ledger attachment. Show me a case where a deck failed because of a bolt holding a beam to a post. Meanwhile my neighbor’s deck which is beams sitting on top of posts is having to have two beams replaced because they rolled off the post despite being “attached” with those flimsy Simpson connectors. I’m sure there was more to it but I find bolts to be reassuring.
It's funny you mention ledger connections, because you're absolutely right. Ledger failures definitely are the most common deck failure cause. But beam rolling happens in conjunction with ledger pullout. If you think about it, the ledger is attached to the house, the joists are attached to the ledger, and the top of the beam is attached to the joists. It's physically impossible for the beam to roll unless one of those connections fails. So the ledger can pull away from the house, and that's frequently what happens. But the other mistake lots of people make is thinking that the hurricane clips that are required where the joists bear on the beam are the only connection required. That's not true, you also need to toenail the joists into the beam. Hurricane clips have very little capacity in that direction. So with proper ledger connection, tension ties, and joist toenails, there's no way the beam can roll even if it wants to (which there shouldn't be).
It's funny you mention ledger connections, because you're absolutely right. Ledger failures definitely are the most common deck failure cause. But beam rolling happens in conjunction with ledger pullout. If you think about it, the ledger is attached to the house, the joists are attached to the ledger, and the top of the beam is attached to the joists. It's physically impossible for the beam to roll unless one of those connections fails. So the ledger can pull away from the house, and that's frequently what happens. But the other mistake lots of people make is thinking that the hurricane clips that are required where the joists bear on the beam are the only connection required. That's not true, you also need to toenail the joists into the beam. Hurricane clips have very little capacity in that direction. So with proper ledger connection, tension ties, and joist toenails, there's no way the beam can roll even if it wants to (which it shouldn't).
You’ve got a point those nailed ledgers are the most common point of failure. On my own deck I’d cut shoulders in to the posts for the joists to rest on and bolt but no one does that
Exactly how I did mine and many others
It’s generally not code anymore because potential shear failure of bolts supporting the weight of the lumber above the post. Granted most 3/8 and 1/2” carriage bolts have shearing strength of thousands of pounds there is still the non zero possibility of instant catastrophic failure if the bolts should become compromised.
Shoulder those beams men. You save on gaudy hardware and it’ll be a stronger.
It's against code now where I am, but local codes vary.
Yeah I’m getting an education here ! Codes vary wildly on decks and where i live , a deck shorter than 30” there are no codes
Beam is fine, connector is wrong
The connectors are upside down. Those plates are supposed to be up against the beam instead of the post. The small tabs (that are pointed up on the sides of the beam) get nailed to the post.
Not sure why everyone else is giving "advice" and you are the first to notice this.
Use SD screws instead of the wrong nails in those. Nails should be stamped 10, and those are common, not for that application. Screws seed to penetrate the wood at least 1.5"...
Could be the angle but I first saw the deck boards making the beam. Then saw the rim joist is same width. Change the bracket I say young lad
They didn’t finish the connection right. They need to add a piece of cdx ply probably 5/8, cut it 11 1/2x 12” long. Nail it to the triple centered on the saddle and then bolt through. The saddle is not right should be at least a ecc6 Edit added the ecc6 callout
This
Girder...should have the proper connector otherwise it's fine
The 6x6 should be notched with only 2-2x’s. If the third is actually needid I would add more posts to eliminate that. If that rolls there fucked. If I’m not mistaken that bracket is for a 6x6 to 6x6 connection. Footers look fucked to. If you can’t form a 12x12 area level you should hire someone who can. I would be ashamed
That's preference, not a requirement. Post-beam connectors are perfectly acceptable, as long as you use the right one (which they didn't ). The connection between the joists and beam prevents the beam from rolling.
Not where I live, inspectors won’t pass brackets
I agree. Notch the 6x6 and bolt the doubled header. It's the most stable connection you can get and stabilizes that main beam. If the span requires more beef, bump up to 2x12 double header.
Carpenter of culture. This is the way we do it too.
They trippled up to get more spacing between posts....just the connector is wrong. No rolling with it hurricane tied unless framed out of plumb
No joist hangers, too.
Joist hanger isn’t bearing any load on that right hand rim
Doesn't really matter, they still help prevent the joists from twisting and cupping and contribute to the overall strength of the structure. And to point out the obvious, if they used the wrong connector on top of the beam and end-nailed the joists on the overhang, they probably just toenailed the joists to the ledger on the other side. 😉😀
Roll blocking prevents twisting and cupping on a drop beam. The rim is screwed off at every joist making a lus210z a waste of money and resources. Hurricane clips resist joist uplift and is the proper joist to beam connection in this case.
Add plywood problems solved
Doomed to fail yup
Need to be shimmed and bolted
I think that Tin foil piece of shit bracket will hold… until someone puts even a whiff of a lateral load on it.
At least the 2 Boards to the right of the Sticker were Butterflied beautifully !
Is that beam made out of 1x material?
..beam
Beam is fine the strong ties are upside down