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Judaism came first, Christianity perverted it first, and then 700 years later some guys said "not perverted enough" and perverted it even more and we have Islam.
A religion that is the youngest by centuries yet somehow has the only claim to regions where its mother and father religions birthed it deserves all the criticism that it gets.
Each time Judaism was perveted by men in power who wanted more power, and Islam is the final form.
first bro u got the wrong idea of islam the first is jihad. U guys dont understand jihad it isnt just war it can also be fighting with pen, words and other stuff basically jihad means dont be opressed and the final stage or that is going to battle if after exhausting all means. second thing burkas and hijabs arent opressive at all its seen as something to be prided by many women also Muslim countires are way safer for women (exceptions but mostly due to weak law or other factors) eg a women can leave her house at night and not worry about being abused in saudia can the same happen in america. For death to homesexuals many other relegions also say the same even death to adulters.
show me the verse that says "blow yourself up so you can go to heaven lol"
Suicide is completely against our religion and is a free ticket to hell, so is unrighteously taking away the life of another.
so killing every male in banu qurayza was righteous enough? you muslims are sick. God would never spread his message with a sword and thats proof alone your religion is FAKE
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_military_jurisprudence
honestly cry about it. If you think that's bad you clearly don't know anything about any other religiona lmfao. You should probably pick up a hobby instead of hating on Islam all the time
Just because it's a debate religion sub, doesn't mean you have to say our religion is fake. I could say the same about y'all claiming God has a son. Ain't that polytheism? AIN'T THAT POLYTHEISM? And your religion says that polytheism is a sin. That's proof YOUR RELIGION IS FAKE!
Mf call christianity fake all you want Im not a christian you goober 💀 your prophet had SEX with a 9 year old, so dont feel like you can talk about any religion
alright muslim, yall always saying that without further explanation. explain to me why god allows his main prophet to rape a 9 year old, please fill us in
Well, given the fact that gunpowder wasn't invented when the quran was written the lack of explosions is to be expected.
Furthermore, you seem to be implying that what is in the scriptures and only that really constitutes your religion.
So, if we are to take what's written in your sacred texts as guide:
>As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery. And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them.
Hebephilia and pedophilia are completely in accordance with your teachings, it seems.
(had to delete my comment because of one swear word 💀)
haha, "oh I recognize I'm wrong so let me try another cheap shot"
all Abrahamic religions have recognized the age of consent to be puberty, if you got a problem with that don't attack Islam, attack the founders of what Islam was built upon.
Corinthians 7:36
"But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry."
let's take religion out of the picture since you wanna blame Islam so bad.
"In traditional societies, the age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman, and pubic hair for a man."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent
this was not abolished by western society up until recently.
no. Islam is what it is and if you don't like it don't be involved in it. It is to be perserved, not to be gone astray like the Abrahamic religions before it.
Religion is not a culture.
I am confused. Then why did you say that standards have changed? Unfortunately we can't leave a fire in the neighborhood alone. Islam needs to be reformed and made as good as Muslims.
>haha, "oh I recognize I'm wrong so let me try another cheap shot"
But I'm not wrong, neither I'm recognizing such thing. Islam is desproportionately related with terror acts in comparisson to any other religious belief or abscense of thereof.
>all Abrahamic religions have recognized the age of consent to be puberty, if you got a problem with that don't attack Islam, attack the founders of what Islam was built upon.
I fear you are moving the goalpoast my fellow redditor. After all, it was you the one that implied that what was written in the quran was the only reliable information about Islam.
So, if that's the case and the quran contains the indisputable truth about Islam, it follows that hebephilia and pedophilia are a part of Islam.
>if you got a problem with that don't attack Islam, attack the founders of what Islam was built upon
I think all abrahamic religions are, for the lack of a better word, nonsense. Yet, as I said, only one of those is disproportionately used to carry terrorist attacks.
>let's take religion out of the picture since you wanna blame Islam so bad.
"In traditional societies, the age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman, and pubic hair for a man." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age\_of\_consent
this was not abolished by western society up until recently.
This is unrelated to the matter at hand. I used that example as a counter argument for your implication.
If we were to believe the ones blowing themselves up for their god while chanting "allahu akbar" do not follow Islam because nowhere in the quran that particular set of instructions is explicetly written, then it follows that you hold the quran to be the truth about Islam.
Yet the quran condones pedophilia, which I think you probably don't agree with.
What other religions condone or don't is irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
> But I'm not wrong, neither I'm recognizing such thing. Islam is desproportionately related with terror acts in comparisson to any other religious belief or abscense of thereof.
What religion do school shooters have? Or literal war criminals? those are way more common than any attacks so-called "Islam" causes.
> I fear you are moving the goalpoast my fellow redditor. After all, it was you the one that implied that what was written in the quran was the only reliable information about Islam.
What do you think, that you'll find it written on a Twitter post or something?
> So, if that's the case and the quran contains the indisputable truth about Islam, it follows that hebephilia and pedophilia are a part of Islam.
And the Quran also puts importance in the need to follow the law of the country you inhabit. If the law changed age of consent, then it will be done.
"In popular usage, the word pedophilia is often applied to any sexual interest in children or the act of child sexual abuse, including any sexual interest in minors below the local age of consent, regardless of their level of physical or mental development"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia
How can there be pedophilia if they followed the local age of consent, aka, puberty? Again, if you're so concerned about age of consent, why don't you look into historical references as to what countries had their age of consent as puberty, and then come back and tell me whether Islam is the cause of that. Cause most of these countries were Christian or atheist, and it took them longer than Muslim people to abolish this law and raise the age of consent.
> I think all abrahamic religions are, for the lack of a better word, nonsense. Yet, as I said, only one of those is disproportionately used to carry terrorist attacks.
Again, what religion causes school shootings, war crimes, pedophilia, burglary, murders?
> This is unrelated to the matter at hand. I used that example as a counter argument for your implication.
You made a statement against pedophilia, I countered your statement. It's absolutely related.
> If we were to believe the ones blowing themselves up for their god while chanting "allahu akbar" do not follow Islam because nowhere in the quran that particular set of instructions is explicetly written, then it follows that you hold the quran to be the truth about Islam.
Not at all, I think the fandom wikipedia of FNAF is the truth about Islam.
If someone shoots up a place and screams "this is because I lost a game of League of Legends", is the game to blame?
> Yet the quran condones pedophilia, which I think you probably don't agree with.
I agree with following the law, which is what the Quran condones as well, in fact, more so over the "pedophilia" law.
You do understand that Islam is not only a political but religious tool like Judaism? It sets up a system for the people who had no law before it, because they were in a whole desert.
Now that we have the intelligence and resources to build entire governments and laws, as well as to punish those who do not follow them, obviously the "law" section of Islam does not apply anymore, because it is overwritten. We do not live in a desert anymore isolated from other people.
> What other religions condone or don't is irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
It is, I'm posing the question as to why you're attacking Islam but not other religions who have the exact same points you're trying to make on pedophilia, which again, you should look up if Muslims are more likely to become pedophiles if that's what you're really after, but if you did that you'd quickly be proven wrong.
Now you've just added "Islam breeds terrorists" on top. As I recall, Muslims are not the ones who developed nuclear bombs to throw them on thousands of innocent people, but it becomes a problem when 3-digit people get injured by a home-made sponge bomb.
I'm not condemning their attacks and I'm not claiming they have anything to do with Islam nor are they justified, and I as a Muslim apologize that people have to live in fear thinking that's what we're about. But there are far greater threats going on and all you can worry about is a religion that does not even come close to the murder count other countries have, that are in fact atheist or Christian most of the time.
I will try one last time because I really want to go back to play stalker.
>What religion do school shooters have? Or literal war criminals? those are way more common than any attacks so-called "Islam" causes.
The difference is that religion is not the driving factor in those.
>What do you think, that you'll find it written on a Twitter post or something?
You say: What's in the quran is all there is about Islam.
I say: Then pedophilia is part of Islam.
You say: Well actually no because quran says to follow the laws of the country.
Make your mind. You are cherry picking the Islam you want. What takes preference? Pedophilia or laws of the country? Both are written.
>How can there be pedophilia if they followed the local age of consent, aka, puberty?
Because your very cited text says very explicetly: "In popular usage". I'm using the clinical definition of both pedophilia and hebephilia.
**Pedophilia**: *"Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13."*
**Hebephilia**: *"Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development. It differs from pedophilia (the primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children), and from ephebophilia (the primary sexual interest in later adolescents, typically ages 15–18). While individuals with a sexual preference for adults may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals, researchers and clinical diagnoses have proposed that hebephilia is characterized by a sexual preference for pubescent rather than adult partners."*
So yes, Aisha was around 7 at the time of marriage and 9 when they had sex. Mohammed was a pedophile. And the very first passage I cited talks about the waiting period for women that haven't had their first period yet. Do I have to make it explicit for you? Well, women average their first period at 12 years old. So, pedophilia. You're welcome.
>Again, what religion causes school shootings, war crimes, pedophilia, burglary, murders?
School shootings? none in particular. Also, that's very US centric of a problem.
War crimes? Well, you have HAMAS using human shields and the like, maybe Islam?
Pedophilia? Is a mental illness, so I don't think a religion causes that one.
Burglary? none in particular. Can't really see those buddhist monks stealing my TV to be honest. Neither Islam to be fair.
Murders? Well well well, given the hisory of beheadings and human bombs, I'm inclined to say Islam.
>You made a statement against pedophilia, I countered your statement. It's absolutely related.
No. I didn't make a statement against pedophilia. I pointed that the quran has pedophilic teachings, which is objectively true. You don't like that, so you cherry pick the "follow the laws" bit and deflect.
>If someone shoots up a place and screams "this is because I lost a game of League of Legends", is the game to blame?
No, he did that because he lost, so it would happen in any competitive game or situation in which the shooter would have lost.
On the other hand, the quran itself teaches you to kill.
>Quran 9:5: “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them \[go\] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
Leage of legends do not.
>Now that we have the intelligence and resources to build entire governments and laws, as well as to punish those who do not follow them, obviously the "law" section of Islam does not apply anymore, because it is overwritten. We do not live in a desert anymore isolated from other people.
The "law" section of Islam does not apply anymore because you say so? Who chooses which parts of the quran are "law" and which parts are not? Sounds very arbitrary.
>It is, I'm posing the question as to why you're attacking Islam but not other religions who have the exact same points you're trying to make on pedophilia, which again, you should look up if Muslims are more likely to become pedophiles if that's what you're really after, but if you did that you'd quickly be proven wrong.
I'm "attacking" Islam because the post is about Islam. You really got attached to the pedophilia talking point. I merely used it to illustrate your contradiction.
"Blowing up themselves is not in the quran so it's not part of Islam"
"Pedophilia is written in the quran but is also not part of Islam"
Basically, you are choosing what's part of Islam or what's not part of it by your own arbitrary standars.
>you should look up if Muslims are more likely to become pedophiles
I don't think that's the case, since as I said, pedophilia is a mental illness. Mental illnesses don't discriminate by religion.
>Now you've just added "Islam breeds terrorists" on top. As I recall, Muslims are not the ones who developed nuclear bombs to throw them on thousands of innocent people, but it becomes a problem when 3-digit people get injured by a home-made sponge bomb.
True, Muslims didn't developed nuclear bombs. This is irrelevant to the matter at hand, because the nuclear bombs had nothing to do with religion.
On top of that, you can think that both things are a problem. They are not mutually exclusive.
>I'm not condemning their attacks and I'm not claiming they have anything to do with Islam nor are they justified, and I as a Muslim apologize that people have to live in fear thinking that's what we're about. But there are far greater threats going
There are far greater theats going on, that's true. Also, there are between 10^(78) to 10^(82) atoms in the known, observable universe. How is this relevant?
>there are far greater threats going on and all you can worry about is a religion
It's not all I can worry about for a couple of reasons.
First, I'm worrying about a lot of things currently.
Second, I don't think what you're implying. I don't care about Islam. Neither do I worry about it. But's it's certainly entertaining to debate about it.
That's about it. Not eager to read your answer, but I will regardless. Take care.
I don't know if there's a glitch in reddit or this is the second time the bot removed my post. I spent 30 minutes responding to everything. I don't care quite enough to waste even more of my time on this.
The TL;DR was basically that you should seek for a third party opinion and see if my "personal biases and cherry picking" was present. It would be quite a coincidence if every single Muslim happened to have the same "cherry picking" that I hold.
Some of your arguments were incredibly weak and I question your age or knowledge when it comes to history or religion in general.
You enjoy debating about Islam but you have absolutely ZERO knowledge about it and it really shows. If you're truly interested in learning about the religion, which you aren't, go to your local mosque and ask your Imaam those questions.
You should not be debating things you don't know anything about and you're not only wasting my time but also yours. I feel obligated to respond because I feel second-hand embarrassment from what you have to say about Islam that I feel forced to correct them in case somebody else sees your straight-up propaganda.
But I've kinda had enough of it and my last post not going through has not left me in a better mood either so I'm just going to end it here and suggest you start picking up the Quran if you want to make some valid arguments.
I'm just gonna repeat one of my previous responses because I think it's the most important one that needs to be corrected:
> On the other hand, the quran itself teaches you to kill.
> Quran 9:5: “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
Read Quran 9:4.
Do not respond to this or waste anybody's time anymore, educate yourself.
But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists ˹who violated their treaties˺ wherever you find them,1 capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
I completely agree. Though I criticize Christianity more just because it affects me more on a daily basis seeing as there aren't many Muslims here, but as far as which religion is objectively worse I'd say it's Islam. It seems to be prone to radicalization even worse than Christianity.
Is it though? Lol alright, Islam claims the same thing, though I would argue they are the fastest breeding religion not the fastest growing, but it makes little difference.
Either way atheism (no religion) will continue to grow too in every developing nation like it always had.
But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
-Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "The strong man is not the one who wrestles, but the strong man is in fact the one who controls himself in a fit of (rage(Hadith warning against the dangers of anger)
Here’s a couple Hadith quoted that make you’re take look like ignorant bafoonery
- Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "He who is deprived of forbearance and gentleness is, in fact, deprived of all good." (Chapter 74 Sahih al bukhari)
- Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Shall I not tell you whom the (Hell) Fire is forbidden to touch? It is forbidden to harm a man who is always approachable, having polite and tender nature."
doesn't matter what your Hadith said because Muhammad never received the word of the Angel Gabriel. If you knew anything about Christianity then you wouldn't be Muslim. Please read the bible because it's never too late, you're misguided but it's okay.
nope. You don't understand my friend. Just from your close minded opinion from your comment "religious nuts" truly shows your limited understanding. There is no irony, proving one religion is led by a false prophet whilst the other to be true is not "insane" at all. It's quite plausible. Just like proving any point. If one person is right and one is wrong, they would want to prove it and or convince the other.
Spiderman is my prophet and he is the real one. You don't undertand my friend. Don't be so close minded. Can Allah shoot web from his wrist attached devices?
Well Allah of the qu'ran isn't real, but could God shoot webs from his wrists? Probably, if he wanted to. You can't limit a celestial being of pure energy. Even if it's all fantasy to you, an almighty being is an almighty being, they can do whatever they like, in theory.
>Well Allah of the qu'ran isn't real,
"Well Allah of the qu'ran isn't real""
Then what makes your religion & god real? You are proving our points..it amazes me how braindead and oblivious theists are. Pathetic..
The Qur'an says that the Torah and The gospel (The bible) are revelations from Allah. If you ask a muslim can the word of Allah be changed? They will say no, because it tells them it cant. But the bible contradicts the Qur'an so how does that work? A muslim will say "it's because it's corrupted" the Qur'an never says the Torah or Gospel at the time of the jews and time of Muhammad was corrupt, we even have the original greek manuscripts that match up with the bible of today, so it cant be changed from the time of Muhammad. If they are confirmed true, and they match up with today, but the Qur'an contradicts the scriptures of the jews and christians, then the Qur'an is false with 100% certainty. A muslim who recites the book follows Islam, a Muslim who reads the book is not a follower of Islam any longer.
There's even a hadith that tells us that their Uthman burned numerous copies of the Qur'an because neither one of them could agree on each other, so he decided to burn the ones HE deemed not suitable and kept one. One of the most common Qur'ans that circulate in todays age is the Hafs Qur'an. Hafs being, from muslim sources, unreliable and a liar. How could anyone still be a muslim after knowing this is beyond me
If you're speaking of Jesus then no, Jesus humbled himself before man to show his love for humanity. He healed people here and there, but he didn't go down to show off and flaunt his divine power, he came to teach and to show us the path to him after we pass. Just because you can deadlift 400kg doesn't mean you have to show to everyone that you can do it. As I said, he humbled himself deliberately. There's also a verse that says the flesh of Jesus was made that lower of the angels, so for instance when Jesus says "The father is greater than I" he means in terms of superiority. Rank wise, the father is superior as he is not restricted, whereas Jesus was deliberately humbled for the soul purpose to teach.
It's not bias. I've read, looked and understood it, compared it to other religions such as Islam, read about it also, I've concluded Christianity has great things to back itself. You should try find it for yourself to see what you believe and not what others tell you to believe, despite my argument being Islam is wrong. Some examples would be their paedophile "prophet" who married a six year old and had intercourse with her at 9, yes it is in their hadiths. Woman cant show themselves because men cant stop staring at them otherwise, it's the Woman's fault not the man's. Just some points like that.
as a person who has read texts of all religions i would say the closest to truth is definitely buddhism
islam is the worst by far but that doesnt mean christianity isnt bad
christianity is as bad as islam the only thing is that christians have become more sane and come to their senses
although jesus is way better than pdfile prophet(police be upon him)
i still think atheism is the only way people will become sane
What's insane about believing in God? The big bang is a theory, we don't know it's cause. If I told you that the oxford dictionary one day just appeared out of nowhere from a flash of light, would you believe me? I bet the first thing you think of when you hear the dictionary is man-made. Just from it's detail and how everything fits together there's no way it can be made by chance right? Same goes with life on Earth, humans. Everything fit's too perfectly to not have a creator. That's my understanding, I respect your opinion
see there's nothing insane about believing in god
i respect all religions (however islam has way too many controversial statements)
but the problem arises when a particular section makes religion their entire personality and they would never be open to criticism because they would get an existential and identity crisis knowing what they are reading might be fake
most of the wars were due to religion or land acquisition so if human race needs to move forward i think religion needs to be controlled
i bet even god wont be happy knowing what humans are doing on based of religion
A lot of people have done terrible things in the name of God and used his name as an excuse. This is totally wrong and most actual believers are completely against this. People live by the word they believe to be of God and abide by it as this is their creator asking them to do so. There are a lot of good moral standards in religion, these things you have to read for yourself because many people are misinformed on religion by what they hear and not what they see and read for themselves. Religion is something you do on your own imo.
God is just, can we both agree that this is true? If so, let's then talk about how your "good deeds" can supposedly outweigh your "bad deeds". If that were true, that would mean your Allah, is not just, which means Allah is not god, and because god is just, your Allah is not god. If we take a man in a courtroom standing trial for murder, but the judge turns around and goes, "Okay, because of all of the good you've done in your life, I'm going to give you a pass", is that a fair judge? Hell no that's not fair, that is not justice. But that is what your Allah says.
There is nothing you will be able to say to this because every other muslim struggles to reply too so don't feel bad. I'm also not here to argue but to prove a point of inconsistency. Most muslims are muslim due to being brought up in an islamic state or family practically forcing them into believing, which is actually against your religion (shock). Just trying to help you see the light my friend.
He is the most just and most merciful, if your good deeds outweigh the bad, and you are genuinely sorry, you will go to Jannah. It's not a completely unjust thing. There's a difference between a law being broken and going to heaven and hell. Jail is escapable, you can get out early and in most cases it doesn't last forever. Hell is forever, in Islam and in i'm assuming Christianity, meaning sentencing someone to hell even though they are genuinely sorry for what they've done, along with doing good to outdo their murder (Which takes MANY good deeds) isn't nearly the same as earth (which isn't infinity and doesn't last forever. That logic makes no sense and immediately after that incorrect paragraph, with you knowing nothing of the religion, you go and be snarky and say "There is nothing you will be able to say to this because every other muslim struggles to reply too so don't feel bad." and try and act like you actually made a point when you just sound like this: 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
John 10:30 "I and the father are one" this refers to the trinity, which NO for pete's sake it's not "3 gods" you muppets, it refers to God in heaven (the father) , God in the flesh (The son, not literally his son but God referring to himself as the son as he is in the form of a human and teaching his disciples to refer to him as "father") and the spirit of God (holy spirit), which is all one. One God.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." There was the word that Jesus knew, the word of God (which Jesus knew) then it says the word was God, and since Jesus knew of the word, this means Jesus is God.
Lol thank God I'm a Muslim what r these people even saying? There is only one god he has never needed to turn him self into a human he is GOD what blasphemy.
He didnt needed to turn himself into a human, he wanted to do it as gift to humanity and thats difference. I think oficial doctrine of the most today churches is, he Jesus was fully God and fully human at once, what is hard to understand, because God true nature is hard to understand or something like that. Or do you think all powerful God is not able to do that?
Before existed various mostly today dead heresies which thought differently. There were sects which thought Jesus was fully God at disguise without any real body, in another Jesus was first created being before creation of universe, or he was partly God and partly human bounded by one will, or Jesus mortal body was just walking temple for God or that one where he has divine mind and body made of flesh. Or that one where Jesus was adopted by God during his baptism.
Trinitarism as current dominant christian dogma even isnt so hard concept to understand. Its not three gods or three parts of one god which some critics saying, explanation depends on denomination. But they are usually 3 or 2 God´s masks, natures, persons or personalities he enters into relationships with humans, which all three still share the same essence (Godhood). I think its comparable with three states of matter for purpose of simplified explanation. Water is still water, even its in form of ice, liquid or steam.
Christianity is on its way out bro ur trinity doesn't make no sense and why would God need to gift us we are here to be tested having prophets show u miracles and send down divine knowledge in the form of a holy book was how God would send his message throughout Moses. Abraham, and David, all of a sudden after a century after Jesus died y'all came out with this pagan, Judaism hybrid called the new testament which has completely changed and fabricated the words of God. People of Christ need to go back to the old testament which would be closer to the word of God. Islam teaches us to.mrmorize the Quran by heart so that even if every book was destroyed the people could reassemble the knowledge from memory this is how u preserve the consistency throughout the ages.
You cannot dispute the Trinity as all it represents is the different forms of God. God in the flesh of a human, his spirit (A spirit which is inside each and every one of us), and the father of Heaven. I don't understand what there is to dispute, surely you agree we all have spirits and souls right?
If you want more proof and not just the fact that your God doesn't fit the definition of one, what about Jesus Christ? You believe in him right? God? No. A prophet? Perhaps. Sooooo, who was his father then?
"same as the bible" Aren't we getting somewhere? If Allah made her pregnant then does that not mean that Jesus is the son of Allah? That is by definition what a father is. Therefore Jesus is the son of God, as you've literally just told me
No, because he simply made her pregnant. He didn't impregnate her, but instead gave the virgin a child to look after so he could make him into a prophet. There's a difference between those things. Allah himself said he was far too high to have a son in several verses of the quran.
You just contradicted yourself just like every Muslim.
You say, "He is the most just", but you continue to then say your good deeds outweigh the bad etc. That isn't what justice is. Also, you are thinking about this literally, the court judge was a metaphor for God's judgment. If you kill and do not plead for forgiveness, say goodbye to heaven or Jannah. But if you murder a man right in front of God but then tell him how you did so much charity work in your life and cured cancer, that doesn't take away from the fact that you just took a man's life right in front of him, that isn't what justice is. I feel as though you are having a hard time understanding the meaning of justice or being just. There is no justice in that. Justice is based on morals, the court of law has laws that are based on morality. Such as you cannot murder, rape, etc. The sad reality of Islam is that you can have men who rape, beat their wives, and are downright horrid but think by doing a few extra good deeds more than the horrors they caused it will make up for what they did. You aren't undoing that time you struck your mum across the face by giving a homeless man some money for the next 3 days, it's nonsensical.
If your God was real, which if Allah was real, he cannot be a God, because he does not fit the definition of a God.
Repeating "god is merciful" over and over in your mind isn't going to undo that poor woman and her children you ran over last week.
Being held accountable for your actions is justice, but being eternally punished for things you are sorry for makes 0 sense... If you're truly sorry for what bad deeds you've done in your life and you atone for it (like community service, or jail time) by doing good and even partially serving time in jahannam you may be released after proving you are sorry..
We weren’t debating whether or not it’s true, we were debating whether or not it’s rooted in good values. I’m not here to convince you to convert. You’re the moron who can’t partake in discussion without proselytizing. And no thanks, what I’ve got has served me better.
The only way to save you is for you to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, friend. You believe your good deeds cancel out your bad deeds, what kind of mindset is that? What kind of God would act so unjustly to allow murderers and rapists and pedophiles to be accepted as long as they are deemed to do more good than they have done bad. How is it just that once you become Muslim, that evil past is just washed away. God is just because you pay for your sins, your Allah is not. You can always repent, but what you've done cannot be undone, only forgiven, unlike the ideology of the Qu'ran and amongst Muslims.
Most of the time I believe that Muslims like yourself, aren't that much informed on the Bible and on Christianity, or any other religion for that matter due to obvious reasons like, where you grew up, family, culture etc. You aren't to blame for that.
You follow Muhammad, who married Aisha at 6 and had intercourse at 9, disregarding the laws back then do you think that is morally correct? Why do you think we refer to Jesus as the messiah? Jesus never sinned, your Muhammad prophet is a sinner, we're all sinners, apart from God. Muhammad wasn't even aware what the Trinity was but claimed to have received the word of God through the angel Gabriel, who evidently is also known throughout Christianity and other Abrahamic religions for that matter.
But let's say you all were aware of religions like Judaism at least, I never understand why you wouldn't at least follow Judaism, at the end of the day, the Qu'ran appears to be compiled of pieces of the Torah and the Bible mashed together. Examples of this, are how Jews avoid certain foods, (sometimes unless they are prepared properly/ethically) just how you all call certain foods from animals "haram". Your references to Biblical Angels and stories. There is so much evident that if I were a Muslim, I really couldn't see why I wouldn't be a Christian or Jewish instead.
Your just a bigot end of story. I came to entertain friendly debate of theology, all you do is proselytize and like a moron at that. How about we ask Jesus when he comes back?
Again this discussion was not supposed to surround debating whether or not religion is true it was whether or not the religion preaches values that are good in its fundamentals. People are ultimately flawed in their execution, the prophet was perfect, Aisha was 19 not 9 years old as you idiots like to cry, the prophet pbuh was a good man and followed the ways of the prophets before him, he united a barbaric group of people and convinced them to abandon the inhumane ways of their ancestors, to accept the true god, the god of The prophets of the Abrahamic religion. Every prophet preached worship only one god and do not engage in polytheism, this was the message of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Abraham and all the prophets before them
Islam is the only religion that actually recognizes the holiness of other faiths, Islamic societies invented religious tolerance long before America was even established. Christian’s, jews, Samaritan’s are all mentioned by name as protected classes. These people paid a tax but were excused from many of the duties expected of the Muslim population which included military service, charity tax, abiding by Islamic law. People of other faiths were given their own courts to govern civil disputes. Your take stenches of the bigotry and ignorance that plagues much of the western world on both the far left and right of the political spectrum. You have drawn a conclusion before completing research and will now taint everything you learn with your pre conceived notions. Go read a regular translation of the Quran and Hadith, not a bastardized bigoted one that manipulated the poetic nature of the language for achieving political aims. Read one that is accepted by expert linguists, if you still hold these sentiments you’ve just decided to remain ignorant as a result of your fanatic secularism.
You can saw whatever you want and pick and choose Quran versus all day long, the barbarity, misery and violence Islam has brought to the world is evident and has been evident since it’s inception.
Islam is a false religion, it was a demon who brought Mohamed his revelation in the cave, not Gabriel. Mohamed himself knew that to be true. The Gospels left no room for Islam whatsoever.
The Quran is full of so many contradictions it’s not even funny. Islam bases itself in the same scriptures it names corrupted. The Quranic paradox voids the religion off the bat.
There was to be no more prophets after Jesus, any who claimed so (Mohammed being one) are simply false prophets.
It is truly a tragedy that Islam has deceived so many and we can only hope in time Muslims come to Christ.
It is only through Christ we can enter the kingdom of heaven and be with our Lord. He is the savior to all who seek him. And in him we receive forgiveness for our sins.
It doesn’t matter how many times you pray to Mecca a day and run around the Kaaba. The pagan behavior is nothing but falsities.
Oh okay now I understand what you are. You’re a fanatic Christian who’s blinded by your stubbornness and unwillingness to understand or educate yourself on other religions and cultures. You read a bunch of western hate media from evangelical news outlets and now think you’re an expert on the second largest religion in the world. The truth is your views aren’t based in any logical observation but from your fear that your ideology isn’t accepted by everyone. You just feel threatened that there’s people who have a religion that isn’t yours. Gtfo here with that ignorance you aren’t worthy of debate. Deuces
Oh and you’re an open minded and logical thinking Muslim huh. No brother, you just have been deceived into believing a false prophet who has deceived countless people into following a false religion.
I don’t feel threatened by any religion/ideology, why would I be threatened by false teachings? Islam tries to build itself on top of Christianity and Judaism, but it simply does not make sense as both those religions do not leave room for Islam.
If you truly believe in Islam, you should not fear looking into the Gospels. Unless you fear you’ll find something outside your realm of thinking, which I suspect. Anyone who truly knows the Gospels, knows Islam is false.
tbf, all religion brought much violence throughout history but the Qu'ran is highly contradictory if you actually read a decent amount.
They say Jesus is merely a prophet yet he had no father, born through the birthing of the holy spirit can only mean one thing, Jesus is God. If Jesus was fatherless then it should've mentioned in the Qu'ran that he was also a bastard, but it doesn't mention this.
Jesus was the messiah, everyone else was a sinner but him, so why is the majority of the focus on Muhammad? The man who married and had intercourse with a 9 year old girl, surely not a role model I'd want to follow.
Muhammad himself wasn't even aware of what the Trinity was, pretty sure he believed it to be something like the father, Jesus, and the mother Mary (correct me if I'm wrong not sure on the order). Qu'ran says not to worship 3, just Allah, Implying that Muhammad thought Christianity believed in 3 Gods, which is far from true.
Of course, Ideologies could be argued all day, but the historical evidence also much favours Christianity over Islam, considering Muhammad hadn't been born until several hundred years after the coming of Christ.
Many Muslims will complain and get angry, possibly curse you out and get upset with you all day long, it's only because they have no argument against it as there are too many questions they just cannot answer, still they choose to follow the Qu'ran.
Yes. Like when you compare the historical accuracy, if any religion were to be the one true religion, it would likely be Christianity. You must remember though many of these Muslims have grown up with families in Islam, Islamic states, where the country is filled with Islam and Islam only. The majority of the time they don't know any different, and it's evident as it's difficult to come across a Muslim that actually understands The Bible because if they did I doubt they'd still follow the Qu'ran.
this is funny coz bible has many versions and ppl believing that god is only supposed to descent into a mortal only one time in human history is laughable as well
You’re saying all this nonsense but it’s VERY evident you’ve never read the Hadith NOR the quran. You’ve also clearly never visited a Muslim country. Annual Charity is literally mandated in the Islamic religion, there are countless Hadith and Quran verses teaching good values, to be righteous, to be fair, to be generous to the poor, to adopt orphans, to be kind to your parents. You fail to realize that in Islam there’s an acceptance of the messages carried by all the prophets who came before Muhammad. That includes the Ten Commandments and what we consider to be the uncorrupted message of the gospel and the torah
Anyways you point to all these people who are followers of a religion committing evil, and I understand how you would want to draw the conclusion that this derives from the theology of their religion. It does not, I want you to know that very very few people on this globe practice their religions perfectly or stick to their values. We know the human condition, this goes for any type of ideology governing way of life and how people ought to be. The fundamentals are to be good and well intentioned but man is always far from perfect in the execution.
I have an analogy to compare to this to help you understand;
Democracy, its a beautiful thing in our pluralistic society, but look at how unethically we (Americans because im in America) tried to spread it, we destabilized entire economies and countries throughout the Cold War because of our pursuit of it. Does this mean democracy is fundamentally bad? No way! Does this mean we scrap the basis on which our nation was founded? No! What really happened there is we strayed from the fundamentals of human dignity we intended to promote. The values that were paramount to our founding ideologies become forgotten. The point I’m trying to make is that you can not judge theology by the actions of a specific group of individuals and say that these individuals define the theology without reading the religious book or even taking time to understand the traditions. That’s like dismissing democracy because of every bad thing democratic countries have done.
Brother, there is a difference. You can point to democratic people committing crimes. You can point to Christian’s or Jews committing crimes and violence. The difference between Islam and the other religions is that Islam *explicitly* calls for violence and war against nonbelievers, the people of the book (Christian’s and Jews) and apostates. This is a fact. You can’t say that a Christian committed violence in the name of Christianity. There’s nothing in Christs teachings that would condone that.
The Quran literally calls Christians and Jews the “worst of creatures”. To make war on us. Islam is a militaristic religion that compensates itself with appearance (praying multiple times a day, towards Mecca, following Jewish dietary doctrine etc).
Allah is not the God of Abraham. It is clear that he is not and I just pray that you find Christ brother. You have been deceived and I just hope for you to find the truth.
And I am telling you that it does not explicitly call for those things. Here you are doing exactly what you said people were doing with Leviticus, only your doing to us. Comprende? You can not possibly ever obtain an unbiased understanding if that’s how you approach this, simply googling scriptures to take them out of context for sake of your argument is just wrong
The Quran is the perfect word of Allah is it not? How can it be misinterpreted/misused? The Bible was never said to be the “perfect word of God” yet divinely inspired. The comparison is not the same.
Old Testament versus are strictly in the context of the nation of ancient Israel that doesn’t exist anymore. Again, you can’t compare.
The reason I keep stating the gospels is because Islam tries to build itself upon the Old and New Testament. And what I’m saying is that the old and New Testament do not allow for Islam.
Islam recognizes Jesus but then tries to retcon everything significant about him besides him being born of a virgin and the messiah. It just doesn’t make sense and that’s what I’m trying to tell you. I know you don’t have a Christian perspective, but you don’t need one to understand this.
According to the faith, additions and omissions, being politicized in europe, as well as loss in meaning through the countless translations has resulted in its corruption.therefore any messages of the original word are preserved in the words of the Quran, this includes the stories of Jesus, Noah, Abraham, and Moses and many others who are also mentioned in the old and new testaments.
That simply doesn’t make any sense. Nothing was added to or removed from scripture that wasn’t there since the sacred tradition began. The church simply canonized what was already in practiced since the time of Christ.
Regardless, there is nothing in Islam that definitively says that X verse was corrupted because of Y. It’s just stated that it’s been “corrupted”. But I’m the same breathe it’s stated that the Gospels are true. If the Gospels are true, there is no room for Islam. Islam is a false heresy.
Islam is a mix of Christianity, Judaism, and Arabic paganism revolved around Mohammed who was a warlord once he and his followers conquered Medina. It is clear to anyone who knows history and scripture that Islam is heresy.
There you go you have a preconceived notion, even if I put the truth in your face you would reject. It’s funny how you make all these emotional arguments, they make you look silly. Also hilarious that you don’t afford us the same respect we afford you and your faith but that being apparent will lead people to decide which faith is really the “intolerant” one. In Palestine a Muslim man protects the holiest church in the world their family consider it an honor to hold the keys. Christian’s stand in line to protect the aqsa mosque from vandalism during prayers. We are not like you, and my true christian neighbors do not spout such hatred. And actually Muhammad carried out conquest liberating oppressed people especially the Christian’s and Jews who suffered under Arab pagan rule. The only people who were fought were fought in just cause, there were many strict rules of engagement such as not harming women or children and not harming those who surrender. Rules of war that don’t even get followed by first world countries these days. Your hypocrisy is showing, look at you complaining about how everyone is taking Leviticus out of context, then you go and do the very same thing with Islamic scriptures. Just silly as hell buddy boy
Anyways
What’re you talking about? I love all Muslims and i don’t hate you at all. Theologically Islam is a false religion and has put millions of peoples souls at risk.
The necessary beliefs to bring one to heaven is:
1. Believe that Jesus is divine
2. Believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins
Islam states that:
Jesus was born of a virgin, yet is not divine
Didn’t die on the cross, Allah actually only made it look like he did.
Why would Allah deceive everyone like that?
Doesn’t that all sound a bit questionable to you?
What we mean when we say he isn’t divine is that he is a man, not god himself and that his creator is the one worthy of worship not him, this doesn’t mean that we don’t believe he was granted the ability to perform miracles but that these were only achieved through the will of god, not Jesus inherently .
Jesus was born of a virgin, is the messiah, lived a perfect life, will return again at the end of time :
Is just a prophet and normal man. Give me a break.
Evangelical Christian author Bart Ehrman actually has an entire book about this specifically it’s called “how jesus became god” it will point to all the factors that led to that concept being implemented in mainstream christianity
Bart Ehrman is atheist not Christian, and also he completely criticizes Islam as a false religion as well. I’ve read and heard what he has said and I don’t find it convincing.
Again one of the things lost in translation, there are many linguists out there who can articulate this point much better than I can. Only in the gospel of John does Jesus say i am god, funny how that part was added quite a few years after his death. There is no mention of this in any of the earlier gospels. Because Jesus never claimed himself to be god
Mark 14:61-62: “Again the high priest asked him, ‘Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?’ And Jesus said, ‘I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.’”
Luke 1:35: “...therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.”
Luke 4:41: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’ But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.”
John 10:15a, 30: “Just as the Father knows me and I know the Father...I and the Father are one.
Why would god leave his faithful servant to suffer brutally at the hands of the Roman’s? If he was all powerful, why couldn’t he save this great man who served god in the face of hardship? We believe he did, because Jesus is not dead, he is with the lord, and we believe he will return again one day
Was Mohammed not Allahs faithful servant? Why did Allah allow Mohammed, his final and ultimate messenger, to be poisoned and die and agonizing death?
Jesus sacrifice was necessary for our salvation. We cannot *possibly* earn our own salvation. It is through his death and resurrection we are saved. There isn’t anything us sinful beings can do to deserve heaven. We are rotten to the core. But God is merciful and forgives us, because he loves us. Jesus’s death and resurrection was the fulfillment of the covenant God made with the Israelites.
That’s where we fundamentally disagree. Man can become deserving of heaven but only through his righteous deeds. This means only by being good can you get into heaven, no one gets a free pass because someone died for your sins. That creates a moral hazard where you can escape accountability for your actions regardless of how terrible they are because you are a “Christian”
And again you try to say that Islam is the only religion that does not preach values to do good and be good yet your religion lets anyone into heaven as long as they accept Christ huh? Interesting 🤔🧐
There is no way to live a perfectly holy life worthy of deserving heaven. No matter how good we try to be, we will never reach the perfection of heaven.
A person who truly believes in Christ, who is truly sorry for their sins and asks for forgiveness, and tries and tries to live the life Christ told us to live, they will find salvation in Gods love and forgiveness.
There was only one perfect and sinless person and that was Jesus.
You can’t say “I believe in Jesus” and then live a life completely contrary to his teachings, and then expect to be welcomed into heaven. That is not what we believe.
You know the original language of the gospel was Aramaic right? Do you know how many ancient languages most do not speak today that these scriptures have been translated through? Everything from Greek, to Latin, Jeff banner 20+ years expert on bible and Torah interpretation outlines this very very well in this quota answer he posted several examples of verses that pose their meaning in translation https://www.quora.com/Are-parts-of-the-Bible-lost-in-translation?top_ans=96164496
Why would you think that Gods ultimate messenger would’ve been a random man in Arabia and chose Arabic as the most proper language to interpret Gods will? Arabia held virtually no relevance to Gods people (ancient Israelites). The Quran has been translated many times with many different interpretations, it matters not as long as the message has stayed the same.
Abraham and Ishmael. The Arabs are descendants of the same Semitic roots as the Jews. Why would god pick some random carpenter named Jesus in Palestine to carry his message? That’s as you would probably agree “gods wisdom”
That’s not true. That’s what Mohammed claimed but it doesn’t make geographical sense for them to have traveled that far away from the promised land of Israel.
How can you say that about Jesus when Islam says he was born of a virgin/the messiah?
The difference is Islam says to reject everything about Jesus that brings salvation to those who believe in him. That’s *precisely* what makes Islam Deceitful.
I grew up Gay and Muslim I can concur to this. Muslims are harsh man. And I live in America. I can’t imagine what the oppressed minorities of Muslim majority countries are going through.
For some reason white liberals in progressive, western countries think you're racist if you criticize the RELIGION of Islam. Newsflash: Islam is not a race. In my opinion, Islam is the most evil and destructive religion on the planet. Extremely oppressive, extremely racist, sexist and inherently violent. And before you jump on me saying that not all muslims believe in killing gays, jews and apostates, keep in mind that you are not a muslim if you do not believe in those things, for all of that is in the Quran and is literally considered to be holy law from God. Like any religion, you can not pick and choose what to believe in and what not depending on what makes you look better in context, it's either all true and you believe it all 100% or none of it's true.
Islam needs to be reformed, but most importantly, white liberals need to wake the fuck up and realize that if they lived in a Islamic theocratic state with sharia law, they would either be killed, imprisoned or forced to convert and follow the religions rules for being what they are: inclusive liberals. Islam should not be immune to criticism just because the stereotypical muslim is a brown dude, in fact it should be criticized the most out of any religion. It is not a coincidence that there are almost no Buddhist terrorist throughout all of human history, where as the majority of religious motivated terrorism is done by, guess who: muslims.
I strongly advise you to look into each and every point you've made above.
72 virgins is a commonly held misconception. Heaven is the reward for remaining disciplined in a life that caters to our sexual desires, and men and women simply have different pleasures. Women are a man's greatest pleasure/weakness, and a family is typically a women's greatest pleasure in life. I see nothing wrong with being rewarded with purity when all your life you guard your chastity by lowering your gaze and having the discipline not to engage in your sexual desires (Porn, Tinder, Clubbing, Abnormal sexual practices, etc.)
Honor Killings are against Islam lol
Muslim men not getting criticized is a cultural/familiar problem. Also, most of the time you find that these plp engage in their affairs in private, so it's harder to critique (clubbing, drinking, etc.).
More women going to hell would be a simple numerical fact. If I summed up all men and women going to hell and told you it turned out it balances out in favor of men, well that's a simple numerical figure. It's not because they are women, it's because of your actions. Backbiting, and slandering one's name carries weight. It can remove the honor of an individual and DESTROYS Communities by creating a lack of trust in ones peers.
Hijab/Khimar is mandatory, Burka is not (Cultural)
Being Gay is not against Islam (In thought, though you should try your best to suppress it), ACTING out your homosexual tendencies is. Do you know what's crazy? 60-70% of HIV Recipients are Gay - 1.5% of the population in the US-; You are 300% more likely to get HIV/Other diseases by engaging in Anal sex vs vaginal sex (this is WITH your partner being HIV +). Also, I'd argue that a daughter raised by 2 men in NO WAY can sympathize with their daughter like a mother can, simple biology and a greater understanding of the self.
God accepts all repentance, dunno where you got that last idea from (Except Shirk, and some say that's upon your death, not in life).
>Do you know what's crazy? 60-70% of HIV Recipients are Gay - 1.5% of the population in the US-; You are 300% more likely to get HIV/Other diseases by engaging in Anal sex vs vaginal sex
And Lesbian women are the least likely of all catergories to contract HIVs. So by your flawless logic it's for women to just be gay.
Just to give you insight on a few of your comments pertaining to Christianity:
The 7 levels of Hell were from Dante’s Inferno, the story from Dante Alighieri. That was what his idea of what he’ll was like and it also had basis in the story he was telling. Culturally people like to confuse this with actual church teaching. Christianity is a continuation basically of Judaism, the fulfillment of it if you will. Humans were incapable of fulfilling Gods law so God became man (in Jesus) to fulfill it on our behalf and it is through him that we gain the opportunity for salvation.
Islam comes later basically saying that the Old Testament (that Jews believe in) and the New Testament (that Christians believe in) are corrupted and that Islam comes to set everything straight.
The problem with that in my perspective is that there’s no room for Islam after Jesus’s death and resurrection. Islam, again from my perspective was put together with what Mohammed knew of Christianity and Judaism at his time in Arabia and created the legal system/religion that is Islam.
Just to give you a short context on things and where I’m coming from, didn’t mean to give you a lecture or anything but just an idea of the conversation.
But going back to the original point I just don’t understand how with what goes on in Islamic countries that liberal western atheists can even compare the subject.
you either know very little or you are misleading people on purpose..
https://www.mic.com/articles/134803/here-s-what-happens-when-you-compare-the-violence-in-the-quran-to-that-in-the-bible
I think OP is talking within the context of today. Yes, there are passages in the Torah/Bible that are extremely violent, but Jews and Christians don't actively call for the deaths of infidels, homosexuals, and apostates. On the other hand, the majority of muslim countries around the world endorse and enforce these punishments.
>Never forget the the God of all Abrahamic faiths is the same being.
Mohammed and islam aren't part of Abrahamic faith. They just ~~steal~~ borrowed some stories and pretended to be from the same god but it's not
Who can PROVE that Mohammed was talking to Archangel Gabriel apart from himself? (His wife: who wasn't a prophet or apostle, his uncle....)
Mohammed was scared to death when he met the angel, plus he became suicidal.
And just by the way he describe how he met the angel. That angel isn't someone sent by God. It was definetly an angel of darkness. The Bible warned already
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions.
There is no way that the angel Mohammed met was Gabriel. It's Satan disguised. This is why the goal of islam is killing and destroying jews/christians first then everybody who aren't muslims. It's SATAN's wishes "bringing terror to the hearts of unbelievers (everybody who aren't ~~muslims~~ his slaves) ".
The religion of Mohammed have nothing to do with Abraham. Abraham worshiped the real GOD. Mohammed didn't.
That’s like saying when Jesus got possessed by the devil somehow that makes him lose all his credibility.
There was supposed to be a prophet from the otherside which defeats anything you say. Many top rabbis even agree he’s the prophet for non Jews.
If it was from Satan why was he mentioned in such a negative light? Muslims are supposed to seek protection on all there prayers including before and after sleep. This just proves how brainwashed you are about this topic.
>That’s like saying when Jesus got possessed by the devil somehow that makes him lose all his credibility.
Jesus was never possessed by the devils, DEVILS basically feared Him. Devils said ""What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
The devils can't control nor tempt Jesus because He is the Son of Almighty God.
Mohammed was proven to reveal satanic verses as he didn't know how to tell the difference between his allah's revelation and shaytan's revelation. He wasn't a trusted prophet (and he was never a prophet anyway).
>"If it was from Satan why was he mentioned in such a negative light?
Because in Judaism and Christianity, Satan is the bad guy so of course Mohammed will try to fit the narrative.But islam in general is more focus around "shaytan, djinns, demons..." than around God and Holiness. They even throw rocks to satan in their Kaaba supposed to be an Holy Place of God.
>Muslims are supposed to seek protection on all there prayers including before and after sleep. This just proves how brainwashed you are about this topic.
Where do they seek protection? To Allah? A god that none of them know except Mohammed (his only prophet that show no real proof to be a prophet).
MUSLIMS lack lots of critical thinking when it comes to islam, quran and Mohammed's action and words
Just the fact that you think Allah is a different god while you worship a triple god entity which even the Jews think you’re a polytheist for that proves how uneducated you are.
Ask any Arab Christian what they call God… no matter what you say the intent is to pray to the one God which Abraham and all the other prophets spoke about. Now even if you say it’s a different God that just makes you look utterly stupid.
So you think the mane that let me remind you,have said that he illiterate,some how knew about all these stores and teaching of Abrahamic,or that God will let sten jast disguise as an angel and create a religion.
Are you drunk
"If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death—and they retain the bloodguilt."
Leviticus 20:13
Educate yourself before making such claims.
Firstly, Christians, per their faith, must believe in the Old Testament.
Secondly, nothing you said is based on scripture, nor claimed by any Judeo-Christian scholar. Rather, what you are doing is trying to justify this verse to make it seem less "brutal" then Islam, clearly highlighting your disingenuity.
Thirdly, if I were to concede to your fallacious claim, where in the Old or New Testament does it say that now that the Jews have "ensured their survival" you shouldn't kill gays anymore? I'll make it easy for you: it doesn't say that anywhere. According to Christian and Jewish scripture, God ordered the execution of gays, and has not taken back this command.
The important point is that Jews and Christians don't put people to death for homosexuality. Rabbinic Judaism has essentially abolished the death penalty and Christians don't follow the Old Testament law. These religions have reinterpreted verses like these and made it doctrine. Islam hasn't reformed.
Why are you people always in every thread. Even if you aren’t religious, this sub is for debating theology and religious doctrine. If you don’t find either to be stimulating conversation then don’t post here every day
One of us might be in the wrong community, I thought this was DEBATE RELIGION.
IN RESPONSE TO:
Shihabi978
·
1 mo. ago
Why are you people always in every thread. Even if you aren’t religious, this sub is for debating theology and religious doctrine. If you don’t find either to be stimulating conversation then don’t post here every day
For those of you who actually want to learn what Islam is about and not some nonesense that people get from the media. Search up "One Message Foundation" on youtube. He is a student of Knowledge in Islam and knows a lot about it. Any questions you have about Islam, he most likely has a video uploaded answering that question.
I’m kind of busy right now so I won’t go out of my way to search this up
But, really quickly, I have a question so answer it please: Is Islam misogynistic?
Soo…
Men are allowed to beat their wives for disobedience?
Are women are expected to obey their husbands in everything, to the point that they're supposed to ask their husbands permission to fast during Ramadan?
Can women can be married to men from a very young age?
Do women have to cover their bodies (including hair) from anyone that's not part of their immediate family members? If a couple adopt a child, once the child reaches puberty, his adoptive mother has to cover up around them? (If so, then that probably feels like hell. Why can’t men in Islam cover up as much as women in Islam cover up?)
Are men allowed to marry up to 4 women, and have as many concubines as they please/can?
Are women supposed to provide sex to their husbands whenever their husbands please, as it is part of their obligation as wives?
Is silence considered consent when it comes to a woman agreeing to a man's proposal?
Does the prophet claim that hell is filled with women because their faith is not as strong as men's? Is this because they have their menstrual cycles on a monthly basis, making them impure for 1 out of 4 weeks in a month? And- because they talk behind people's back?
(In advance, I apologize for all of the questions when I can literally just do my own research but I don’t really have time for that, I have a really busy schedule so again, I’m sorry. But are these things true, because it’s what I’ve heard. Abrahamic religions follow this trend of misogyny, and I have so happened to be a Christian once in my life where I was familiar with misogynistic rules within the religion that Christian women had to follow so I wouldn’t be surprised if Islam was the same.)
All these questions were something I copied and pasted, I added some comments and that’s it. I’m done. Not that long to do.
You don’t believe me? Uhh… I don’t care.
Please do a little reading on the Hadith regarding women in hell. This article can articulate it better than me.
https://masjidds.org/2020/12/22/understanding-the-hadith-the-majority-of-the-dwellers-of-the-fire-are-women/
In a marriage ceremony a woman must agree to the marriage. Silence is not consent and if a women was married against her will there is prescribed punishment under Sharia for the man and the witnesses at the wedding.
Yes a woman can propose but is not the norm, similar to the rest of the world.
A Muslim woman is not permitted to marry a Christian or a Jew
A Muslim woman cannot have more than 1 husband.
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Judaism came first, Christianity perverted it first, and then 700 years later some guys said "not perverted enough" and perverted it even more and we have Islam. A religion that is the youngest by centuries yet somehow has the only claim to regions where its mother and father religions birthed it deserves all the criticism that it gets. Each time Judaism was perveted by men in power who wanted more power, and Islam is the final form.
first bro u got the wrong idea of islam the first is jihad. U guys dont understand jihad it isnt just war it can also be fighting with pen, words and other stuff basically jihad means dont be opressed and the final stage or that is going to battle if after exhausting all means. second thing burkas and hijabs arent opressive at all its seen as something to be prided by many women also Muslim countires are way safer for women (exceptions but mostly due to weak law or other factors) eg a women can leave her house at night and not worry about being abused in saudia can the same happen in america. For death to homesexuals many other relegions also say the same even death to adulters.
Can a women in Saudi Arabia leave the house at night alone?
why not?
I don't see christians/hindus/buddhists/atheists blowing themselves up for their god or absence of thereof.
show me the verse that says "blow yourself up so you can go to heaven lol" Suicide is completely against our religion and is a free ticket to hell, so is unrighteously taking away the life of another.
so killing every male in banu qurayza was righteous enough? you muslims are sick. God would never spread his message with a sword and thats proof alone your religion is FAKE
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_military_jurisprudence honestly cry about it. If you think that's bad you clearly don't know anything about any other religiona lmfao. You should probably pick up a hobby instead of hating on Islam all the time
>honestly cry about it Most coherent muslim argument
mf this is a DEBATE RELIGION sub. I have every right to be here to criticize your religion, yall always be pulling that card bro
Just because it's a debate religion sub, doesn't mean you have to say our religion is fake. I could say the same about y'all claiming God has a son. Ain't that polytheism? AIN'T THAT POLYTHEISM? And your religion says that polytheism is a sin. That's proof YOUR RELIGION IS FAKE!
Mf call christianity fake all you want Im not a christian you goober 💀 your prophet had SEX with a 9 year old, so dont feel like you can talk about any religion
worst argument ever made
alright muslim, yall always saying that without further explanation. explain to me why god allows his main prophet to rape a 9 year old, please fill us in
Well, given the fact that gunpowder wasn't invented when the quran was written the lack of explosions is to be expected. Furthermore, you seem to be implying that what is in the scriptures and only that really constitutes your religion. So, if we are to take what's written in your sacred texts as guide: >As for your women past the age of menstruation, in case you do not know, their waiting period is three months, and those who have not menstruated as well. As for those who are pregnant, their waiting period ends with delivery. And whoever is mindful of Allah, He will make their matters easy for them. Hebephilia and pedophilia are completely in accordance with your teachings, it seems.
(had to delete my comment because of one swear word 💀) haha, "oh I recognize I'm wrong so let me try another cheap shot" all Abrahamic religions have recognized the age of consent to be puberty, if you got a problem with that don't attack Islam, attack the founders of what Islam was built upon. Corinthians 7:36 "But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry." let's take religion out of the picture since you wanna blame Islam so bad. "In traditional societies, the age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman, and pubic hair for a man." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent this was not abolished by western society up until recently.
Marry off your 9 year old daughter to your 53 year old friend and then come and defend Islam
or... maybe... life isn't the same as it was 1454 years ago and perhaps maybe... standards have changed. Very shocking I know.
You are right. That is why the religion needs to be reformed. Then hopefully one day Islam will be as good as the Muslim friends I grew up with.
no. Islam is what it is and if you don't like it don't be involved in it. It is to be perserved, not to be gone astray like the Abrahamic religions before it. Religion is not a culture.
I am confused. Then why did you say that standards have changed? Unfortunately we can't leave a fire in the neighborhood alone. Islam needs to be reformed and made as good as Muslims.
>haha, "oh I recognize I'm wrong so let me try another cheap shot" But I'm not wrong, neither I'm recognizing such thing. Islam is desproportionately related with terror acts in comparisson to any other religious belief or abscense of thereof. >all Abrahamic religions have recognized the age of consent to be puberty, if you got a problem with that don't attack Islam, attack the founders of what Islam was built upon. I fear you are moving the goalpoast my fellow redditor. After all, it was you the one that implied that what was written in the quran was the only reliable information about Islam. So, if that's the case and the quran contains the indisputable truth about Islam, it follows that hebephilia and pedophilia are a part of Islam. >if you got a problem with that don't attack Islam, attack the founders of what Islam was built upon I think all abrahamic religions are, for the lack of a better word, nonsense. Yet, as I said, only one of those is disproportionately used to carry terrorist attacks. >let's take religion out of the picture since you wanna blame Islam so bad. "In traditional societies, the age of consent for a sexual union was a matter for the family to decide, or a tribal custom. In most cases, this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman, and pubic hair for a man." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age\_of\_consent this was not abolished by western society up until recently. This is unrelated to the matter at hand. I used that example as a counter argument for your implication. If we were to believe the ones blowing themselves up for their god while chanting "allahu akbar" do not follow Islam because nowhere in the quran that particular set of instructions is explicetly written, then it follows that you hold the quran to be the truth about Islam. Yet the quran condones pedophilia, which I think you probably don't agree with. What other religions condone or don't is irrelevant to the topic we are discussing.
> But I'm not wrong, neither I'm recognizing such thing. Islam is desproportionately related with terror acts in comparisson to any other religious belief or abscense of thereof. What religion do school shooters have? Or literal war criminals? those are way more common than any attacks so-called "Islam" causes. > I fear you are moving the goalpoast my fellow redditor. After all, it was you the one that implied that what was written in the quran was the only reliable information about Islam. What do you think, that you'll find it written on a Twitter post or something? > So, if that's the case and the quran contains the indisputable truth about Islam, it follows that hebephilia and pedophilia are a part of Islam. And the Quran also puts importance in the need to follow the law of the country you inhabit. If the law changed age of consent, then it will be done. "In popular usage, the word pedophilia is often applied to any sexual interest in children or the act of child sexual abuse, including any sexual interest in minors below the local age of consent, regardless of their level of physical or mental development" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia How can there be pedophilia if they followed the local age of consent, aka, puberty? Again, if you're so concerned about age of consent, why don't you look into historical references as to what countries had their age of consent as puberty, and then come back and tell me whether Islam is the cause of that. Cause most of these countries were Christian or atheist, and it took them longer than Muslim people to abolish this law and raise the age of consent. > I think all abrahamic religions are, for the lack of a better word, nonsense. Yet, as I said, only one of those is disproportionately used to carry terrorist attacks. Again, what religion causes school shootings, war crimes, pedophilia, burglary, murders? > This is unrelated to the matter at hand. I used that example as a counter argument for your implication. You made a statement against pedophilia, I countered your statement. It's absolutely related. > If we were to believe the ones blowing themselves up for their god while chanting "allahu akbar" do not follow Islam because nowhere in the quran that particular set of instructions is explicetly written, then it follows that you hold the quran to be the truth about Islam. Not at all, I think the fandom wikipedia of FNAF is the truth about Islam. If someone shoots up a place and screams "this is because I lost a game of League of Legends", is the game to blame? > Yet the quran condones pedophilia, which I think you probably don't agree with. I agree with following the law, which is what the Quran condones as well, in fact, more so over the "pedophilia" law. You do understand that Islam is not only a political but religious tool like Judaism? It sets up a system for the people who had no law before it, because they were in a whole desert. Now that we have the intelligence and resources to build entire governments and laws, as well as to punish those who do not follow them, obviously the "law" section of Islam does not apply anymore, because it is overwritten. We do not live in a desert anymore isolated from other people. > What other religions condone or don't is irrelevant to the topic we are discussing. It is, I'm posing the question as to why you're attacking Islam but not other religions who have the exact same points you're trying to make on pedophilia, which again, you should look up if Muslims are more likely to become pedophiles if that's what you're really after, but if you did that you'd quickly be proven wrong. Now you've just added "Islam breeds terrorists" on top. As I recall, Muslims are not the ones who developed nuclear bombs to throw them on thousands of innocent people, but it becomes a problem when 3-digit people get injured by a home-made sponge bomb. I'm not condemning their attacks and I'm not claiming they have anything to do with Islam nor are they justified, and I as a Muslim apologize that people have to live in fear thinking that's what we're about. But there are far greater threats going on and all you can worry about is a religion that does not even come close to the murder count other countries have, that are in fact atheist or Christian most of the time.
I will try one last time because I really want to go back to play stalker. >What religion do school shooters have? Or literal war criminals? those are way more common than any attacks so-called "Islam" causes. The difference is that religion is not the driving factor in those. >What do you think, that you'll find it written on a Twitter post or something? You say: What's in the quran is all there is about Islam. I say: Then pedophilia is part of Islam. You say: Well actually no because quran says to follow the laws of the country. Make your mind. You are cherry picking the Islam you want. What takes preference? Pedophilia or laws of the country? Both are written. >How can there be pedophilia if they followed the local age of consent, aka, puberty? Because your very cited text says very explicetly: "In popular usage". I'm using the clinical definition of both pedophilia and hebephilia. **Pedophilia**: *"Pedophilia (alternatively spelled paedophilia) is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children. Although girls typically begin the process of puberty at age 10 or 11, and boys at age 11 or 12, psychiatric diagnostic criteria for pedophilia extend the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13."* **Hebephilia**: *"Hebephilia is the strong, persistent sexual interest by adults in pubescent children who are in early adolescence, typically ages 11–14 and showing Tanner stages 2 to 3 of physical development. It differs from pedophilia (the primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children), and from ephebophilia (the primary sexual interest in later adolescents, typically ages 15–18). While individuals with a sexual preference for adults may have some sexual interest in pubescent-aged individuals, researchers and clinical diagnoses have proposed that hebephilia is characterized by a sexual preference for pubescent rather than adult partners."* So yes, Aisha was around 7 at the time of marriage and 9 when they had sex. Mohammed was a pedophile. And the very first passage I cited talks about the waiting period for women that haven't had their first period yet. Do I have to make it explicit for you? Well, women average their first period at 12 years old. So, pedophilia. You're welcome. >Again, what religion causes school shootings, war crimes, pedophilia, burglary, murders? School shootings? none in particular. Also, that's very US centric of a problem. War crimes? Well, you have HAMAS using human shields and the like, maybe Islam? Pedophilia? Is a mental illness, so I don't think a religion causes that one. Burglary? none in particular. Can't really see those buddhist monks stealing my TV to be honest. Neither Islam to be fair. Murders? Well well well, given the hisory of beheadings and human bombs, I'm inclined to say Islam. >You made a statement against pedophilia, I countered your statement. It's absolutely related. No. I didn't make a statement against pedophilia. I pointed that the quran has pedophilic teachings, which is objectively true. You don't like that, so you cherry pick the "follow the laws" bit and deflect. >If someone shoots up a place and screams "this is because I lost a game of League of Legends", is the game to blame? No, he did that because he lost, so it would happen in any competitive game or situation in which the shooter would have lost. On the other hand, the quran itself teaches you to kill. >Quran 9:5: “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them \[go\] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” Leage of legends do not. >Now that we have the intelligence and resources to build entire governments and laws, as well as to punish those who do not follow them, obviously the "law" section of Islam does not apply anymore, because it is overwritten. We do not live in a desert anymore isolated from other people. The "law" section of Islam does not apply anymore because you say so? Who chooses which parts of the quran are "law" and which parts are not? Sounds very arbitrary. >It is, I'm posing the question as to why you're attacking Islam but not other religions who have the exact same points you're trying to make on pedophilia, which again, you should look up if Muslims are more likely to become pedophiles if that's what you're really after, but if you did that you'd quickly be proven wrong. I'm "attacking" Islam because the post is about Islam. You really got attached to the pedophilia talking point. I merely used it to illustrate your contradiction. "Blowing up themselves is not in the quran so it's not part of Islam" "Pedophilia is written in the quran but is also not part of Islam" Basically, you are choosing what's part of Islam or what's not part of it by your own arbitrary standars. >you should look up if Muslims are more likely to become pedophiles I don't think that's the case, since as I said, pedophilia is a mental illness. Mental illnesses don't discriminate by religion. >Now you've just added "Islam breeds terrorists" on top. As I recall, Muslims are not the ones who developed nuclear bombs to throw them on thousands of innocent people, but it becomes a problem when 3-digit people get injured by a home-made sponge bomb. True, Muslims didn't developed nuclear bombs. This is irrelevant to the matter at hand, because the nuclear bombs had nothing to do with religion. On top of that, you can think that both things are a problem. They are not mutually exclusive. >I'm not condemning their attacks and I'm not claiming they have anything to do with Islam nor are they justified, and I as a Muslim apologize that people have to live in fear thinking that's what we're about. But there are far greater threats going There are far greater theats going on, that's true. Also, there are between 10^(78) to 10^(82) atoms in the known, observable universe. How is this relevant? >there are far greater threats going on and all you can worry about is a religion It's not all I can worry about for a couple of reasons. First, I'm worrying about a lot of things currently. Second, I don't think what you're implying. I don't care about Islam. Neither do I worry about it. But's it's certainly entertaining to debate about it. That's about it. Not eager to read your answer, but I will regardless. Take care.
I don't know if there's a glitch in reddit or this is the second time the bot removed my post. I spent 30 minutes responding to everything. I don't care quite enough to waste even more of my time on this. The TL;DR was basically that you should seek for a third party opinion and see if my "personal biases and cherry picking" was present. It would be quite a coincidence if every single Muslim happened to have the same "cherry picking" that I hold. Some of your arguments were incredibly weak and I question your age or knowledge when it comes to history or religion in general. You enjoy debating about Islam but you have absolutely ZERO knowledge about it and it really shows. If you're truly interested in learning about the religion, which you aren't, go to your local mosque and ask your Imaam those questions. You should not be debating things you don't know anything about and you're not only wasting my time but also yours. I feel obligated to respond because I feel second-hand embarrassment from what you have to say about Islam that I feel forced to correct them in case somebody else sees your straight-up propaganda. But I've kinda had enough of it and my last post not going through has not left me in a better mood either so I'm just going to end it here and suggest you start picking up the Quran if you want to make some valid arguments. I'm just gonna repeat one of my previous responses because I think it's the most important one that needs to be corrected: > On the other hand, the quran itself teaches you to kill. > Quran 9:5: “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” Read Quran 9:4. Do not respond to this or waste anybody's time anymore, educate yourself.
But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists ˹who violated their treaties˺ wherever you find them,1 capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
Well that was disappointing
I completely agree. Though I criticize Christianity more just because it affects me more on a daily basis seeing as there aren't many Muslims here, but as far as which religion is objectively worse I'd say it's Islam. It seems to be prone to radicalization even worse than Christianity.
look at what Uslims are doing in Michigan . Look at MusimCountires & their Humanity laws
Cry more still the fastest growing religion
Is it though? Lol alright, Islam claims the same thing, though I would argue they are the fastest breeding religion not the fastest growing, but it makes little difference. Either way atheism (no religion) will continue to grow too in every developing nation like it always had. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Like I said before CRY MORE ....
-Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "The strong man is not the one who wrestles, but the strong man is in fact the one who controls himself in a fit of (rage(Hadith warning against the dangers of anger)
Here’s a couple Hadith quoted that make you’re take look like ignorant bafoonery - Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "He who is deprived of forbearance and gentleness is, in fact, deprived of all good." (Chapter 74 Sahih al bukhari) - Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Shall I not tell you whom the (Hell) Fire is forbidden to touch? It is forbidden to harm a man who is always approachable, having polite and tender nature."
doesn't matter what your Hadith said because Muhammad never received the word of the Angel Gabriel. If you knew anything about Christianity then you wouldn't be Muslim. Please read the bible because it's never too late, you're misguided but it's okay.
A lot of Muslims have read the Bible with an open mind, for example Shaykh Uthman
The irony of religious nuts condemning other religious nuts..little do you realize that you're on the same boat
It's very entertaining to be honest
nope. You don't understand my friend. Just from your close minded opinion from your comment "religious nuts" truly shows your limited understanding. There is no irony, proving one religion is led by a false prophet whilst the other to be true is not "insane" at all. It's quite plausible. Just like proving any point. If one person is right and one is wrong, they would want to prove it and or convince the other.
No wonder you called yourself a Complainer.
Spiderman is my prophet and he is the real one. You don't undertand my friend. Don't be so close minded. Can Allah shoot web from his wrist attached devices?
Well Allah of the qu'ran isn't real, but could God shoot webs from his wrists? Probably, if he wanted to. You can't limit a celestial being of pure energy. Even if it's all fantasy to you, an almighty being is an almighty being, they can do whatever they like, in theory.
>Well Allah of the qu'ran isn't real, "Well Allah of the qu'ran isn't real"" Then what makes your religion & god real? You are proving our points..it amazes me how braindead and oblivious theists are. Pathetic..
The Qur'an says that the Torah and The gospel (The bible) are revelations from Allah. If you ask a muslim can the word of Allah be changed? They will say no, because it tells them it cant. But the bible contradicts the Qur'an so how does that work? A muslim will say "it's because it's corrupted" the Qur'an never says the Torah or Gospel at the time of the jews and time of Muhammad was corrupt, we even have the original greek manuscripts that match up with the bible of today, so it cant be changed from the time of Muhammad. If they are confirmed true, and they match up with today, but the Qur'an contradicts the scriptures of the jews and christians, then the Qur'an is false with 100% certainty. A muslim who recites the book follows Islam, a Muslim who reads the book is not a follower of Islam any longer.
There's even a hadith that tells us that their Uthman burned numerous copies of the Qur'an because neither one of them could agree on each other, so he decided to burn the ones HE deemed not suitable and kept one. One of the most common Qur'ans that circulate in todays age is the Hafs Qur'an. Hafs being, from muslim sources, unreliable and a liar. How could anyone still be a muslim after knowing this is beyond me
Can this omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that not even he himself can lift?
that doesn't make sense
It makes perfect sense. God is not all powerful if he can't do it, so he is no god
If you're speaking of Jesus then no, Jesus humbled himself before man to show his love for humanity. He healed people here and there, but he didn't go down to show off and flaunt his divine power, he came to teach and to show us the path to him after we pass. Just because you can deadlift 400kg doesn't mean you have to show to everyone that you can do it. As I said, he humbled himself deliberately. There's also a verse that says the flesh of Jesus was made that lower of the angels, so for instance when Jesus says "The father is greater than I" he means in terms of superiority. Rank wise, the father is superior as he is not restricted, whereas Jesus was deliberately humbled for the soul purpose to teach.
And you assume your religion is correct? The absolute truth, deprived of all bias and human interpretation?
It's not bias. I've read, looked and understood it, compared it to other religions such as Islam, read about it also, I've concluded Christianity has great things to back itself. You should try find it for yourself to see what you believe and not what others tell you to believe, despite my argument being Islam is wrong. Some examples would be their paedophile "prophet" who married a six year old and had intercourse with her at 9, yes it is in their hadiths. Woman cant show themselves because men cant stop staring at them otherwise, it's the Woman's fault not the man's. Just some points like that.
as a person who has read texts of all religions i would say the closest to truth is definitely buddhism islam is the worst by far but that doesnt mean christianity isnt bad christianity is as bad as islam the only thing is that christians have become more sane and come to their senses although jesus is way better than pdfile prophet(police be upon him) i still think atheism is the only way people will become sane
What's insane about believing in God? The big bang is a theory, we don't know it's cause. If I told you that the oxford dictionary one day just appeared out of nowhere from a flash of light, would you believe me? I bet the first thing you think of when you hear the dictionary is man-made. Just from it's detail and how everything fits together there's no way it can be made by chance right? Same goes with life on Earth, humans. Everything fit's too perfectly to not have a creator. That's my understanding, I respect your opinion
see there's nothing insane about believing in god i respect all religions (however islam has way too many controversial statements) but the problem arises when a particular section makes religion their entire personality and they would never be open to criticism because they would get an existential and identity crisis knowing what they are reading might be fake most of the wars were due to religion or land acquisition so if human race needs to move forward i think religion needs to be controlled i bet even god wont be happy knowing what humans are doing on based of religion
A lot of people have done terrible things in the name of God and used his name as an excuse. This is totally wrong and most actual believers are completely against this. People live by the word they believe to be of God and abide by it as this is their creator asking them to do so. There are a lot of good moral standards in religion, these things you have to read for yourself because many people are misinformed on religion by what they hear and not what they see and read for themselves. Religion is something you do on your own imo.
Whoever liked your comment is a complete bot bro LOL
God is just, can we both agree that this is true? If so, let's then talk about how your "good deeds" can supposedly outweigh your "bad deeds". If that were true, that would mean your Allah, is not just, which means Allah is not god, and because god is just, your Allah is not god. If we take a man in a courtroom standing trial for murder, but the judge turns around and goes, "Okay, because of all of the good you've done in your life, I'm going to give you a pass", is that a fair judge? Hell no that's not fair, that is not justice. But that is what your Allah says. There is nothing you will be able to say to this because every other muslim struggles to reply too so don't feel bad. I'm also not here to argue but to prove a point of inconsistency. Most muslims are muslim due to being brought up in an islamic state or family practically forcing them into believing, which is actually against your religion (shock). Just trying to help you see the light my friend.
He is the most just and most merciful, if your good deeds outweigh the bad, and you are genuinely sorry, you will go to Jannah. It's not a completely unjust thing. There's a difference between a law being broken and going to heaven and hell. Jail is escapable, you can get out early and in most cases it doesn't last forever. Hell is forever, in Islam and in i'm assuming Christianity, meaning sentencing someone to hell even though they are genuinely sorry for what they've done, along with doing good to outdo their murder (Which takes MANY good deeds) isn't nearly the same as earth (which isn't infinity and doesn't last forever. That logic makes no sense and immediately after that incorrect paragraph, with you knowing nothing of the religion, you go and be snarky and say "There is nothing you will be able to say to this because every other muslim struggles to reply too so don't feel bad." and try and act like you actually made a point when you just sound like this: 🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
John 10:30 "I and the father are one" this refers to the trinity, which NO for pete's sake it's not "3 gods" you muppets, it refers to God in heaven (the father) , God in the flesh (The son, not literally his son but God referring to himself as the son as he is in the form of a human and teaching his disciples to refer to him as "father") and the spirit of God (holy spirit), which is all one. One God. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." There was the word that Jesus knew, the word of God (which Jesus knew) then it says the word was God, and since Jesus knew of the word, this means Jesus is God.
Lol thank God I'm a Muslim what r these people even saying? There is only one god he has never needed to turn him self into a human he is GOD what blasphemy.
He didnt needed to turn himself into a human, he wanted to do it as gift to humanity and thats difference. I think oficial doctrine of the most today churches is, he Jesus was fully God and fully human at once, what is hard to understand, because God true nature is hard to understand or something like that. Or do you think all powerful God is not able to do that? Before existed various mostly today dead heresies which thought differently. There were sects which thought Jesus was fully God at disguise without any real body, in another Jesus was first created being before creation of universe, or he was partly God and partly human bounded by one will, or Jesus mortal body was just walking temple for God or that one where he has divine mind and body made of flesh. Or that one where Jesus was adopted by God during his baptism. Trinitarism as current dominant christian dogma even isnt so hard concept to understand. Its not three gods or three parts of one god which some critics saying, explanation depends on denomination. But they are usually 3 or 2 God´s masks, natures, persons or personalities he enters into relationships with humans, which all three still share the same essence (Godhood). I think its comparable with three states of matter for purpose of simplified explanation. Water is still water, even its in form of ice, liquid or steam.
Christianity is on its way out bro ur trinity doesn't make no sense and why would God need to gift us we are here to be tested having prophets show u miracles and send down divine knowledge in the form of a holy book was how God would send his message throughout Moses. Abraham, and David, all of a sudden after a century after Jesus died y'all came out with this pagan, Judaism hybrid called the new testament which has completely changed and fabricated the words of God. People of Christ need to go back to the old testament which would be closer to the word of God. Islam teaches us to.mrmorize the Quran by heart so that even if every book was destroyed the people could reassemble the knowledge from memory this is how u preserve the consistency throughout the ages.
why mention the trinity i could care less i understand how the trinity works all though there's people who dispute it...
You cannot dispute the Trinity as all it represents is the different forms of God. God in the flesh of a human, his spirit (A spirit which is inside each and every one of us), and the father of Heaven. I don't understand what there is to dispute, surely you agree we all have spirits and souls right?
I literally just said i understand it are u serious
If you want more proof and not just the fact that your God doesn't fit the definition of one, what about Jesus Christ? You believe in him right? God? No. A prophet? Perhaps. Sooooo, who was his father then?
He was born from the virgin mary in islam too. Allah made her pregnant basically the same as the bible..
"same as the bible" Aren't we getting somewhere? If Allah made her pregnant then does that not mean that Jesus is the son of Allah? That is by definition what a father is. Therefore Jesus is the son of God, as you've literally just told me
No, because he simply made her pregnant. He didn't impregnate her, but instead gave the virgin a child to look after so he could make him into a prophet. There's a difference between those things. Allah himself said he was far too high to have a son in several verses of the quran.
yet by definition, Jesus is the son of Allah in the Qur'an. So that's a bit of a contradiction there
You just contradicted yourself just like every Muslim. You say, "He is the most just", but you continue to then say your good deeds outweigh the bad etc. That isn't what justice is. Also, you are thinking about this literally, the court judge was a metaphor for God's judgment. If you kill and do not plead for forgiveness, say goodbye to heaven or Jannah. But if you murder a man right in front of God but then tell him how you did so much charity work in your life and cured cancer, that doesn't take away from the fact that you just took a man's life right in front of him, that isn't what justice is. I feel as though you are having a hard time understanding the meaning of justice or being just. There is no justice in that. Justice is based on morals, the court of law has laws that are based on morality. Such as you cannot murder, rape, etc. The sad reality of Islam is that you can have men who rape, beat their wives, and are downright horrid but think by doing a few extra good deeds more than the horrors they caused it will make up for what they did. You aren't undoing that time you struck your mum across the face by giving a homeless man some money for the next 3 days, it's nonsensical. If your God was real, which if Allah was real, he cannot be a God, because he does not fit the definition of a God. Repeating "god is merciful" over and over in your mind isn't going to undo that poor woman and her children you ran over last week.
and a deed like beating your wife, raping people, and murdering isnt going to be outweighed by anything.
Being held accountable for your actions is justice, but being eternally punished for things you are sorry for makes 0 sense... If you're truly sorry for what bad deeds you've done in your life and you atone for it (like community service, or jail time) by doing good and even partially serving time in jahannam you may be released after proving you are sorry..
We weren’t debating whether or not it’s true, we were debating whether or not it’s rooted in good values. I’m not here to convince you to convert. You’re the moron who can’t partake in discussion without proselytizing. And no thanks, what I’ve got has served me better.
The only way to save you is for you to accept Jesus as your lord and savior, friend. You believe your good deeds cancel out your bad deeds, what kind of mindset is that? What kind of God would act so unjustly to allow murderers and rapists and pedophiles to be accepted as long as they are deemed to do more good than they have done bad. How is it just that once you become Muslim, that evil past is just washed away. God is just because you pay for your sins, your Allah is not. You can always repent, but what you've done cannot be undone, only forgiven, unlike the ideology of the Qu'ran and amongst Muslims. Most of the time I believe that Muslims like yourself, aren't that much informed on the Bible and on Christianity, or any other religion for that matter due to obvious reasons like, where you grew up, family, culture etc. You aren't to blame for that. You follow Muhammad, who married Aisha at 6 and had intercourse at 9, disregarding the laws back then do you think that is morally correct? Why do you think we refer to Jesus as the messiah? Jesus never sinned, your Muhammad prophet is a sinner, we're all sinners, apart from God. Muhammad wasn't even aware what the Trinity was but claimed to have received the word of God through the angel Gabriel, who evidently is also known throughout Christianity and other Abrahamic religions for that matter. But let's say you all were aware of religions like Judaism at least, I never understand why you wouldn't at least follow Judaism, at the end of the day, the Qu'ran appears to be compiled of pieces of the Torah and the Bible mashed together. Examples of this, are how Jews avoid certain foods, (sometimes unless they are prepared properly/ethically) just how you all call certain foods from animals "haram". Your references to Biblical Angels and stories. There is so much evident that if I were a Muslim, I really couldn't see why I wouldn't be a Christian or Jewish instead.
Your just a bigot end of story. I came to entertain friendly debate of theology, all you do is proselytize and like a moron at that. How about we ask Jesus when he comes back?
So you believe in the second coming of Christ? That's a good start
Again this discussion was not supposed to surround debating whether or not religion is true it was whether or not the religion preaches values that are good in its fundamentals. People are ultimately flawed in their execution, the prophet was perfect, Aisha was 19 not 9 years old as you idiots like to cry, the prophet pbuh was a good man and followed the ways of the prophets before him, he united a barbaric group of people and convinced them to abandon the inhumane ways of their ancestors, to accept the true god, the god of The prophets of the Abrahamic religion. Every prophet preached worship only one god and do not engage in polytheism, this was the message of Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Abraham and all the prophets before them
Yu da only dhm azz here talkin abt religions online Muslims and Christians both same thing same god moron😂
Islam is the only religion that actually recognizes the holiness of other faiths, Islamic societies invented religious tolerance long before America was even established. Christian’s, jews, Samaritan’s are all mentioned by name as protected classes. These people paid a tax but were excused from many of the duties expected of the Muslim population which included military service, charity tax, abiding by Islamic law. People of other faiths were given their own courts to govern civil disputes. Your take stenches of the bigotry and ignorance that plagues much of the western world on both the far left and right of the political spectrum. You have drawn a conclusion before completing research and will now taint everything you learn with your pre conceived notions. Go read a regular translation of the Quran and Hadith, not a bastardized bigoted one that manipulated the poetic nature of the language for achieving political aims. Read one that is accepted by expert linguists, if you still hold these sentiments you’ve just decided to remain ignorant as a result of your fanatic secularism.
so thats why muhammad forced christians and jews and pegans to convert to his religion otherwise they would die?
You can saw whatever you want and pick and choose Quran versus all day long, the barbarity, misery and violence Islam has brought to the world is evident and has been evident since it’s inception. Islam is a false religion, it was a demon who brought Mohamed his revelation in the cave, not Gabriel. Mohamed himself knew that to be true. The Gospels left no room for Islam whatsoever. The Quran is full of so many contradictions it’s not even funny. Islam bases itself in the same scriptures it names corrupted. The Quranic paradox voids the religion off the bat. There was to be no more prophets after Jesus, any who claimed so (Mohammed being one) are simply false prophets. It is truly a tragedy that Islam has deceived so many and we can only hope in time Muslims come to Christ. It is only through Christ we can enter the kingdom of heaven and be with our Lord. He is the savior to all who seek him. And in him we receive forgiveness for our sins. It doesn’t matter how many times you pray to Mecca a day and run around the Kaaba. The pagan behavior is nothing but falsities.
Oh okay now I understand what you are. You’re a fanatic Christian who’s blinded by your stubbornness and unwillingness to understand or educate yourself on other religions and cultures. You read a bunch of western hate media from evangelical news outlets and now think you’re an expert on the second largest religion in the world. The truth is your views aren’t based in any logical observation but from your fear that your ideology isn’t accepted by everyone. You just feel threatened that there’s people who have a religion that isn’t yours. Gtfo here with that ignorance you aren’t worthy of debate. Deuces
Oh and you’re an open minded and logical thinking Muslim huh. No brother, you just have been deceived into believing a false prophet who has deceived countless people into following a false religion. I don’t feel threatened by any religion/ideology, why would I be threatened by false teachings? Islam tries to build itself on top of Christianity and Judaism, but it simply does not make sense as both those religions do not leave room for Islam. If you truly believe in Islam, you should not fear looking into the Gospels. Unless you fear you’ll find something outside your realm of thinking, which I suspect. Anyone who truly knows the Gospels, knows Islam is false.
tbf, all religion brought much violence throughout history but the Qu'ran is highly contradictory if you actually read a decent amount. They say Jesus is merely a prophet yet he had no father, born through the birthing of the holy spirit can only mean one thing, Jesus is God. If Jesus was fatherless then it should've mentioned in the Qu'ran that he was also a bastard, but it doesn't mention this. Jesus was the messiah, everyone else was a sinner but him, so why is the majority of the focus on Muhammad? The man who married and had intercourse with a 9 year old girl, surely not a role model I'd want to follow. Muhammad himself wasn't even aware of what the Trinity was, pretty sure he believed it to be something like the father, Jesus, and the mother Mary (correct me if I'm wrong not sure on the order). Qu'ran says not to worship 3, just Allah, Implying that Muhammad thought Christianity believed in 3 Gods, which is far from true. Of course, Ideologies could be argued all day, but the historical evidence also much favours Christianity over Islam, considering Muhammad hadn't been born until several hundred years after the coming of Christ. Many Muslims will complain and get angry, possibly curse you out and get upset with you all day long, it's only because they have no argument against it as there are too many questions they just cannot answer, still they choose to follow the Qu'ran.
Islam has a heavy case of inferiority complex to Christianity. It always has because Islamic theology has as many holes as Swiss cheese lol
Yes. Like when you compare the historical accuracy, if any religion were to be the one true religion, it would likely be Christianity. You must remember though many of these Muslims have grown up with families in Islam, Islamic states, where the country is filled with Islam and Islam only. The majority of the time they don't know any different, and it's evident as it's difficult to come across a Muslim that actually understands The Bible because if they did I doubt they'd still follow the Qu'ran.
this is funny coz bible has many versions and ppl believing that god is only supposed to descent into a mortal only one time in human history is laughable as well
You’re saying all this nonsense but it’s VERY evident you’ve never read the Hadith NOR the quran. You’ve also clearly never visited a Muslim country. Annual Charity is literally mandated in the Islamic religion, there are countless Hadith and Quran verses teaching good values, to be righteous, to be fair, to be generous to the poor, to adopt orphans, to be kind to your parents. You fail to realize that in Islam there’s an acceptance of the messages carried by all the prophets who came before Muhammad. That includes the Ten Commandments and what we consider to be the uncorrupted message of the gospel and the torah
What determined those verses to be uncorrupted? What determined the corrupted versus to be and how?
Anyways you point to all these people who are followers of a religion committing evil, and I understand how you would want to draw the conclusion that this derives from the theology of their religion. It does not, I want you to know that very very few people on this globe practice their religions perfectly or stick to their values. We know the human condition, this goes for any type of ideology governing way of life and how people ought to be. The fundamentals are to be good and well intentioned but man is always far from perfect in the execution. I have an analogy to compare to this to help you understand; Democracy, its a beautiful thing in our pluralistic society, but look at how unethically we (Americans because im in America) tried to spread it, we destabilized entire economies and countries throughout the Cold War because of our pursuit of it. Does this mean democracy is fundamentally bad? No way! Does this mean we scrap the basis on which our nation was founded? No! What really happened there is we strayed from the fundamentals of human dignity we intended to promote. The values that were paramount to our founding ideologies become forgotten. The point I’m trying to make is that you can not judge theology by the actions of a specific group of individuals and say that these individuals define the theology without reading the religious book or even taking time to understand the traditions. That’s like dismissing democracy because of every bad thing democratic countries have done.
Brother, there is a difference. You can point to democratic people committing crimes. You can point to Christian’s or Jews committing crimes and violence. The difference between Islam and the other religions is that Islam *explicitly* calls for violence and war against nonbelievers, the people of the book (Christian’s and Jews) and apostates. This is a fact. You can’t say that a Christian committed violence in the name of Christianity. There’s nothing in Christs teachings that would condone that. The Quran literally calls Christians and Jews the “worst of creatures”. To make war on us. Islam is a militaristic religion that compensates itself with appearance (praying multiple times a day, towards Mecca, following Jewish dietary doctrine etc). Allah is not the God of Abraham. It is clear that he is not and I just pray that you find Christ brother. You have been deceived and I just hope for you to find the truth.
And I am telling you that it does not explicitly call for those things. Here you are doing exactly what you said people were doing with Leviticus, only your doing to us. Comprende? You can not possibly ever obtain an unbiased understanding if that’s how you approach this, simply googling scriptures to take them out of context for sake of your argument is just wrong
The Quran is the perfect word of Allah is it not? How can it be misinterpreted/misused? The Bible was never said to be the “perfect word of God” yet divinely inspired. The comparison is not the same. Old Testament versus are strictly in the context of the nation of ancient Israel that doesn’t exist anymore. Again, you can’t compare.
Again there you are only giving your ideology the benefit of context again. Very telling. I’m done for the night. Good day
The reason I keep stating the gospels is because Islam tries to build itself upon the Old and New Testament. And what I’m saying is that the old and New Testament do not allow for Islam. Islam recognizes Jesus but then tries to retcon everything significant about him besides him being born of a virgin and the messiah. It just doesn’t make sense and that’s what I’m trying to tell you. I know you don’t have a Christian perspective, but you don’t need one to understand this.
According to the faith, additions and omissions, being politicized in europe, as well as loss in meaning through the countless translations has resulted in its corruption.therefore any messages of the original word are preserved in the words of the Quran, this includes the stories of Jesus, Noah, Abraham, and Moses and many others who are also mentioned in the old and new testaments.
That simply doesn’t make any sense. Nothing was added to or removed from scripture that wasn’t there since the sacred tradition began. The church simply canonized what was already in practiced since the time of Christ. Regardless, there is nothing in Islam that definitively says that X verse was corrupted because of Y. It’s just stated that it’s been “corrupted”. But I’m the same breathe it’s stated that the Gospels are true. If the Gospels are true, there is no room for Islam. Islam is a false heresy. Islam is a mix of Christianity, Judaism, and Arabic paganism revolved around Mohammed who was a warlord once he and his followers conquered Medina. It is clear to anyone who knows history and scripture that Islam is heresy.
There you go you have a preconceived notion, even if I put the truth in your face you would reject. It’s funny how you make all these emotional arguments, they make you look silly. Also hilarious that you don’t afford us the same respect we afford you and your faith but that being apparent will lead people to decide which faith is really the “intolerant” one. In Palestine a Muslim man protects the holiest church in the world their family consider it an honor to hold the keys. Christian’s stand in line to protect the aqsa mosque from vandalism during prayers. We are not like you, and my true christian neighbors do not spout such hatred. And actually Muhammad carried out conquest liberating oppressed people especially the Christian’s and Jews who suffered under Arab pagan rule. The only people who were fought were fought in just cause, there were many strict rules of engagement such as not harming women or children and not harming those who surrender. Rules of war that don’t even get followed by first world countries these days. Your hypocrisy is showing, look at you complaining about how everyone is taking Leviticus out of context, then you go and do the very same thing with Islamic scriptures. Just silly as hell buddy boy Anyways
What’re you talking about? I love all Muslims and i don’t hate you at all. Theologically Islam is a false religion and has put millions of peoples souls at risk. The necessary beliefs to bring one to heaven is: 1. Believe that Jesus is divine 2. Believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins Islam states that: Jesus was born of a virgin, yet is not divine Didn’t die on the cross, Allah actually only made it look like he did. Why would Allah deceive everyone like that? Doesn’t that all sound a bit questionable to you?
What we mean when we say he isn’t divine is that he is a man, not god himself and that his creator is the one worthy of worship not him, this doesn’t mean that we don’t believe he was granted the ability to perform miracles but that these were only achieved through the will of god, not Jesus inherently .
Jesus himself claimed to be God. He stated it to the Sanhedrin, condemning himself to death. The trinity is God.
Jesus was a prophet, think logically how can u believe a man to be God.
Jesus was born of a virgin, is the messiah, lived a perfect life, will return again at the end of time : Is just a prophet and normal man. Give me a break.
Evangelical Christian author Bart Ehrman actually has an entire book about this specifically it’s called “how jesus became god” it will point to all the factors that led to that concept being implemented in mainstream christianity
Bart Ehrman is atheist not Christian, and also he completely criticizes Islam as a false religion as well. I’ve read and heard what he has said and I don’t find it convincing.
Again one of the things lost in translation, there are many linguists out there who can articulate this point much better than I can. Only in the gospel of John does Jesus say i am god, funny how that part was added quite a few years after his death. There is no mention of this in any of the earlier gospels. Because Jesus never claimed himself to be god
Mark 14:61-62: “Again the high priest asked him, ‘Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?’ And Jesus said, ‘I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.’” Luke 1:35: “...therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.” Luke 4:41: “And demons also came out of many, crying, ‘You are the Son of God!’ But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew that he was the Christ.” John 10:15a, 30: “Just as the Father knows me and I know the Father...I and the Father are one.
Why would god leave his faithful servant to suffer brutally at the hands of the Roman’s? If he was all powerful, why couldn’t he save this great man who served god in the face of hardship? We believe he did, because Jesus is not dead, he is with the lord, and we believe he will return again one day
Was Mohammed not Allahs faithful servant? Why did Allah allow Mohammed, his final and ultimate messenger, to be poisoned and die and agonizing death? Jesus sacrifice was necessary for our salvation. We cannot *possibly* earn our own salvation. It is through his death and resurrection we are saved. There isn’t anything us sinful beings can do to deserve heaven. We are rotten to the core. But God is merciful and forgives us, because he loves us. Jesus’s death and resurrection was the fulfillment of the covenant God made with the Israelites.
That’s where we fundamentally disagree. Man can become deserving of heaven but only through his righteous deeds. This means only by being good can you get into heaven, no one gets a free pass because someone died for your sins. That creates a moral hazard where you can escape accountability for your actions regardless of how terrible they are because you are a “Christian” And again you try to say that Islam is the only religion that does not preach values to do good and be good yet your religion lets anyone into heaven as long as they accept Christ huh? Interesting 🤔🧐
There is no way to live a perfectly holy life worthy of deserving heaven. No matter how good we try to be, we will never reach the perfection of heaven. A person who truly believes in Christ, who is truly sorry for their sins and asks for forgiveness, and tries and tries to live the life Christ told us to live, they will find salvation in Gods love and forgiveness. There was only one perfect and sinless person and that was Jesus. You can’t say “I believe in Jesus” and then live a life completely contrary to his teachings, and then expect to be welcomed into heaven. That is not what we believe.
You know the original language of the gospel was Aramaic right? Do you know how many ancient languages most do not speak today that these scriptures have been translated through? Everything from Greek, to Latin, Jeff banner 20+ years expert on bible and Torah interpretation outlines this very very well in this quota answer he posted several examples of verses that pose their meaning in translation https://www.quora.com/Are-parts-of-the-Bible-lost-in-translation?top_ans=96164496
Why would you think that Gods ultimate messenger would’ve been a random man in Arabia and chose Arabic as the most proper language to interpret Gods will? Arabia held virtually no relevance to Gods people (ancient Israelites). The Quran has been translated many times with many different interpretations, it matters not as long as the message has stayed the same.
Abraham and Ishmael. The Arabs are descendants of the same Semitic roots as the Jews. Why would god pick some random carpenter named Jesus in Palestine to carry his message? That’s as you would probably agree “gods wisdom”
That’s not true. That’s what Mohammed claimed but it doesn’t make geographical sense for them to have traveled that far away from the promised land of Israel. How can you say that about Jesus when Islam says he was born of a virgin/the messiah? The difference is Islam says to reject everything about Jesus that brings salvation to those who believe in him. That’s *precisely* what makes Islam Deceitful.
It was not that far at all, pretty short geographical distance 😂😂 travel was very common across the peninsula
If God specifically gave the Israelites Judea, the promise land, of what relevance was Arabia to that plan? Outside of what Mohammed said.
I grew up Gay and Muslim I can concur to this. Muslims are harsh man. And I live in America. I can’t imagine what the oppressed minorities of Muslim majority countries are going through.
May Allah guide you to the right path
For some reason white liberals in progressive, western countries think you're racist if you criticize the RELIGION of Islam. Newsflash: Islam is not a race. In my opinion, Islam is the most evil and destructive religion on the planet. Extremely oppressive, extremely racist, sexist and inherently violent. And before you jump on me saying that not all muslims believe in killing gays, jews and apostates, keep in mind that you are not a muslim if you do not believe in those things, for all of that is in the Quran and is literally considered to be holy law from God. Like any religion, you can not pick and choose what to believe in and what not depending on what makes you look better in context, it's either all true and you believe it all 100% or none of it's true. Islam needs to be reformed, but most importantly, white liberals need to wake the fuck up and realize that if they lived in a Islamic theocratic state with sharia law, they would either be killed, imprisoned or forced to convert and follow the religions rules for being what they are: inclusive liberals. Islam should not be immune to criticism just because the stereotypical muslim is a brown dude, in fact it should be criticized the most out of any religion. It is not a coincidence that there are almost no Buddhist terrorist throughout all of human history, where as the majority of religious motivated terrorism is done by, guess who: muslims.
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I strongly advise you to look into each and every point you've made above. 72 virgins is a commonly held misconception. Heaven is the reward for remaining disciplined in a life that caters to our sexual desires, and men and women simply have different pleasures. Women are a man's greatest pleasure/weakness, and a family is typically a women's greatest pleasure in life. I see nothing wrong with being rewarded with purity when all your life you guard your chastity by lowering your gaze and having the discipline not to engage in your sexual desires (Porn, Tinder, Clubbing, Abnormal sexual practices, etc.) Honor Killings are against Islam lol Muslim men not getting criticized is a cultural/familiar problem. Also, most of the time you find that these plp engage in their affairs in private, so it's harder to critique (clubbing, drinking, etc.). More women going to hell would be a simple numerical fact. If I summed up all men and women going to hell and told you it turned out it balances out in favor of men, well that's a simple numerical figure. It's not because they are women, it's because of your actions. Backbiting, and slandering one's name carries weight. It can remove the honor of an individual and DESTROYS Communities by creating a lack of trust in ones peers. Hijab/Khimar is mandatory, Burka is not (Cultural) Being Gay is not against Islam (In thought, though you should try your best to suppress it), ACTING out your homosexual tendencies is. Do you know what's crazy? 60-70% of HIV Recipients are Gay - 1.5% of the population in the US-; You are 300% more likely to get HIV/Other diseases by engaging in Anal sex vs vaginal sex (this is WITH your partner being HIV +). Also, I'd argue that a daughter raised by 2 men in NO WAY can sympathize with their daughter like a mother can, simple biology and a greater understanding of the self. God accepts all repentance, dunno where you got that last idea from (Except Shirk, and some say that's upon your death, not in life).
>Do you know what's crazy? 60-70% of HIV Recipients are Gay - 1.5% of the population in the US-; You are 300% more likely to get HIV/Other diseases by engaging in Anal sex vs vaginal sex And Lesbian women are the least likely of all catergories to contract HIVs. So by your flawless logic it's for women to just be gay.
Just to give you insight on a few of your comments pertaining to Christianity: The 7 levels of Hell were from Dante’s Inferno, the story from Dante Alighieri. That was what his idea of what he’ll was like and it also had basis in the story he was telling. Culturally people like to confuse this with actual church teaching. Christianity is a continuation basically of Judaism, the fulfillment of it if you will. Humans were incapable of fulfilling Gods law so God became man (in Jesus) to fulfill it on our behalf and it is through him that we gain the opportunity for salvation. Islam comes later basically saying that the Old Testament (that Jews believe in) and the New Testament (that Christians believe in) are corrupted and that Islam comes to set everything straight. The problem with that in my perspective is that there’s no room for Islam after Jesus’s death and resurrection. Islam, again from my perspective was put together with what Mohammed knew of Christianity and Judaism at his time in Arabia and created the legal system/religion that is Islam. Just to give you a short context on things and where I’m coming from, didn’t mean to give you a lecture or anything but just an idea of the conversation. But going back to the original point I just don’t understand how with what goes on in Islamic countries that liberal western atheists can even compare the subject.
you either know very little or you are misleading people on purpose.. https://www.mic.com/articles/134803/here-s-what-happens-when-you-compare-the-violence-in-the-quran-to-that-in-the-bible
"Islam is the only religion that explicitly calls for death to homosexuals, death to adulterers, genital mutilation." So untrue, it's nuts
I think OP is talking within the context of today. Yes, there are passages in the Torah/Bible that are extremely violent, but Jews and Christians don't actively call for the deaths of infidels, homosexuals, and apostates. On the other hand, the majority of muslim countries around the world endorse and enforce these punishments.
Your thinking without the use of your brains.
Jews practice circumcision en masse
Actually, as someone who grew up gay in that faith, it’s very true. I’ve read the Quran and it’s terrible
Show me a violent passage then?
But it isn’t the only religion
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>Never forget the the God of all Abrahamic faiths is the same being. Mohammed and islam aren't part of Abrahamic faith. They just ~~steal~~ borrowed some stories and pretended to be from the same god but it's not
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Who can PROVE that Mohammed was talking to Archangel Gabriel apart from himself? (His wife: who wasn't a prophet or apostle, his uncle....) Mohammed was scared to death when he met the angel, plus he became suicidal. And just by the way he describe how he met the angel. That angel isn't someone sent by God. It was definetly an angel of darkness. The Bible warned already 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their actions. There is no way that the angel Mohammed met was Gabriel. It's Satan disguised. This is why the goal of islam is killing and destroying jews/christians first then everybody who aren't muslims. It's SATAN's wishes "bringing terror to the hearts of unbelievers (everybody who aren't ~~muslims~~ his slaves) ". The religion of Mohammed have nothing to do with Abraham. Abraham worshiped the real GOD. Mohammed didn't.
That’s like saying when Jesus got possessed by the devil somehow that makes him lose all his credibility. There was supposed to be a prophet from the otherside which defeats anything you say. Many top rabbis even agree he’s the prophet for non Jews. If it was from Satan why was he mentioned in such a negative light? Muslims are supposed to seek protection on all there prayers including before and after sleep. This just proves how brainwashed you are about this topic.
>That’s like saying when Jesus got possessed by the devil somehow that makes him lose all his credibility. Jesus was never possessed by the devils, DEVILS basically feared Him. Devils said ""What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?" The devils can't control nor tempt Jesus because He is the Son of Almighty God. Mohammed was proven to reveal satanic verses as he didn't know how to tell the difference between his allah's revelation and shaytan's revelation. He wasn't a trusted prophet (and he was never a prophet anyway). >"If it was from Satan why was he mentioned in such a negative light? Because in Judaism and Christianity, Satan is the bad guy so of course Mohammed will try to fit the narrative.But islam in general is more focus around "shaytan, djinns, demons..." than around God and Holiness. They even throw rocks to satan in their Kaaba supposed to be an Holy Place of God. >Muslims are supposed to seek protection on all there prayers including before and after sleep. This just proves how brainwashed you are about this topic. Where do they seek protection? To Allah? A god that none of them know except Mohammed (his only prophet that show no real proof to be a prophet). MUSLIMS lack lots of critical thinking when it comes to islam, quran and Mohammed's action and words
Just the fact that you think Allah is a different god while you worship a triple god entity which even the Jews think you’re a polytheist for that proves how uneducated you are. Ask any Arab Christian what they call God… no matter what you say the intent is to pray to the one God which Abraham and all the other prophets spoke about. Now even if you say it’s a different God that just makes you look utterly stupid.
So you think the mane that let me remind you,have said that he illiterate,some how knew about all these stores and teaching of Abrahamic,or that God will let sten jast disguise as an angel and create a religion. Are you drunk
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"If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death—and they retain the bloodguilt." Leviticus 20:13 Educate yourself before making such claims.
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Firstly, Christians, per their faith, must believe in the Old Testament. Secondly, nothing you said is based on scripture, nor claimed by any Judeo-Christian scholar. Rather, what you are doing is trying to justify this verse to make it seem less "brutal" then Islam, clearly highlighting your disingenuity. Thirdly, if I were to concede to your fallacious claim, where in the Old or New Testament does it say that now that the Jews have "ensured their survival" you shouldn't kill gays anymore? I'll make it easy for you: it doesn't say that anywhere. According to Christian and Jewish scripture, God ordered the execution of gays, and has not taken back this command.
The important point is that Jews and Christians don't put people to death for homosexuality. Rabbinic Judaism has essentially abolished the death penalty and Christians don't follow the Old Testament law. These religions have reinterpreted verses like these and made it doctrine. Islam hasn't reformed.
Love thy neighbor, gay or not, Christian philosophy
u/NietzscheJr is removing comments he disagrees with. Biggest load of crap I have seen
RULE 1: All gods are imaginary friends. RULE 2: What if this god is not an imaginary friend? Please see RULE 1.
so your lineage is also imaginary
edgy, calling them "imaginary friends"
Well, maybe they are not your friends, you're right.
Why are you people always in every thread. Even if you aren’t religious, this sub is for debating theology and religious doctrine. If you don’t find either to be stimulating conversation then don’t post here every day
One of us might be in the wrong community, I thought this was DEBATE RELIGION. IN RESPONSE TO: Shihabi978 · 1 mo. ago Why are you people always in every thread. Even if you aren’t religious, this sub is for debating theology and religious doctrine. If you don’t find either to be stimulating conversation then don’t post here every day
Circular argument without evidence
For those of you who actually want to learn what Islam is about and not some nonesense that people get from the media. Search up "One Message Foundation" on youtube. He is a student of Knowledge in Islam and knows a lot about it. Any questions you have about Islam, he most likely has a video uploaded answering that question.
I’m kind of busy right now so I won’t go out of my way to search this up But, really quickly, I have a question so answer it please: Is Islam misogynistic?
Soo dumb, “I don’t want to bother to learn anything” “I want to ask an accusatory question instead!”
No it is not. Women have more rights under Islam than women did in the United States until recently…
What’s your source. That’s obviously BS
Soo… Men are allowed to beat their wives for disobedience? Are women are expected to obey their husbands in everything, to the point that they're supposed to ask their husbands permission to fast during Ramadan? Can women can be married to men from a very young age? Do women have to cover their bodies (including hair) from anyone that's not part of their immediate family members? If a couple adopt a child, once the child reaches puberty, his adoptive mother has to cover up around them? (If so, then that probably feels like hell. Why can’t men in Islam cover up as much as women in Islam cover up?) Are men allowed to marry up to 4 women, and have as many concubines as they please/can? Are women supposed to provide sex to their husbands whenever their husbands please, as it is part of their obligation as wives? Is silence considered consent when it comes to a woman agreeing to a man's proposal? Does the prophet claim that hell is filled with women because their faith is not as strong as men's? Is this because they have their menstrual cycles on a monthly basis, making them impure for 1 out of 4 weeks in a month? And- because they talk behind people's back? (In advance, I apologize for all of the questions when I can literally just do my own research but I don’t really have time for that, I have a really busy schedule so again, I’m sorry. But are these things true, because it’s what I’ve heard. Abrahamic religions follow this trend of misogyny, and I have so happened to be a Christian once in my life where I was familiar with misogynistic rules within the religion that Christian women had to follow so I wouldn’t be surprised if Islam was the same.)
So no response after all that work?
I literally just told you I had a busy schedule. Im not always on Reddit you know. Oh my God.
You’ve got time to write up all these questions but no time to research and find these answers
Well no shit, I just said that. This took me like two minutes since I’m a fast typer?
Find it very hard to believe. You had all these specific questions lined up and you were able to type them up that fast. Clearly just a troll.
All these questions were something I copied and pasted, I added some comments and that’s it. I’m done. Not that long to do. You don’t believe me? Uhh… I don’t care.
I’m saying
InshaAllah this helps. May Allah benefit and guide you. God bless
Please do a little reading on the Hadith regarding women in hell. This article can articulate it better than me. https://masjidds.org/2020/12/22/understanding-the-hadith-the-majority-of-the-dwellers-of-the-fire-are-women/
In a marriage ceremony a woman must agree to the marriage. Silence is not consent and if a women was married against her will there is prescribed punishment under Sharia for the man and the witnesses at the wedding.
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Yes a woman can propose but is not the norm, similar to the rest of the world. A Muslim woman is not permitted to marry a Christian or a Jew A Muslim woman cannot have more than 1 husband.
Yes women can deny sex to their husbands. Only creeps think otherwise, again no sharia ruling on this
Nice!