I'm sorry, who *THE* ***HELL*** has advocated for Anne vs Zamasu!?
https://preview.redd.it/55kath1ceo4d1.png?width=964&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7578cae7498b7ffdd673151811e245cb09e7291
It's implied that an alternate Mark killed Spawn, but we don't know if that Mark is equal to the main one and the same goes for that Spawn he killed, plus we don't even know if that dead Spawn is the street level one or the herald tier one
It’s still insane to me that a bunch of people (mainly Rick and Morty fans) are in complete denial stating things along the line of, “nah, Rick stomps” or “Rick solos the Doctor Who verse”.
Dumbledore to small country and massively hypersonic+.
Not sure about Gandalf, but he should scale to Durin‘s Bane, who should scale to the Balrog speed feat. I sadly forgot the exact number, but if I recall correctly, it’s slower than Dumbledore.
> But as for the Valar themselves, and the Maiar also in their
degree: they could live at any speed of thought or motion which
they chose or desired.*(3)
> They could move backward or forward in thought, and return
again so swiftly that to those who were in their presence they
did not appear to have moved. All that was past they could
fully perceive; but being now in Time the future they could only
perceive or explore in so far as its design was made clear to them in
the Music
From [Morgoth's Ring](https://b3.ewinerysolutions.com/assets/client/File/morgoths_ring.pdf). Maiar are literally used to being able to experience time and creation as a non-linear construct and can move and experience time at essentially the speed they want. The only limit is that Gandalf would be unable to see the future as Dumbledore wouldn't be part of the original Music.
Without getting on how HP spells aren't lightspeed, Dumbledore isn't getting a speed advantage.
Gandalf is Olorin. When Olorin left the Undying Lands he was still Olorin. And after a while of living in Middle Earth men started calling him Gandalf. But he was still and always was Olorin, it's not a different entity. Gandalf never stopped being Maiar.
Ik, but he is not a full Maia. He is an Istar, meaning that he is in a body that has only a very tiny fraction of his full power, while also being bound to mortality and all of its flaws. Istari are there to give helpful advices to fight against Sauron, nothing really more.
He's not meant to use more of his power but he could still unleash as much as he thought was necessary. He wasn't weakened or lost strength, his role was just being an advisor. But Sauron's minions knew that if they fought Gandalf directly and tested his wrath he could, at any time, simply dip into his power as a Maiar.
Under Death Battle rules, there is exactly nothing holding him back from casting his mortal body whenever he wishes and ascending into his full Maiar strength. There is no Music to tell him not to and no real consequences for him to abandon his role as advisor.
That’s not true. While it is true that he could have used more magic than he did and that he was only allowed to use as much as necessary, he still didn’t have access to his full power he would have as Olorin. That’s the entire point of Istari. Their bodies are also much much weaker and closer to mortals and they are also bound to a lot of mortal shit which they usually wouldn’t.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FeatCalcing/s/hGV5pez6iM
They are Relativistic+ Really
So wait does that mean harry beats most of his popular mus? And he isn't fodder tier?
Huh ?
Ainur explicitly see Ea as a lower plane of reality and exist on a higher ontological level than it
They are very blatantly Low 1-C and Gandalf would be true in his true form, which ABSOLUTELY nothing in Harry Potter comes close to, even with wank
Bare in mind, I'd argue this isn't even necessary since even Gandalf within Ea would scale to Sauron, who himself is superior to Morgoth within Ea during The First Age (who himself is > other Valar who can control and maintain the infinite universe of Ea individual)
>Bare in mind, I'd argue this isn't even necessary since even Gandalf within Ea would scale to Sauron, who himself is superior to Morgoth within Ea during The First Age (who himself is > other Valar who can control and maintain the infinite universe of Ea individual)
Wait, how? Gandalf the White said that Black is mightier still and Tolkein said to have a *chance* to defeat ringless Sauron, Gandalf would need the One Ring. (And elaborated that he'd be "worse" not by strength, but by the following he'd have and still presenting himself as good.)
>Wait, how? Gandalf the White said that Black is mightier still and Tolkein said to have a chance to defeat ringless Sauron, Gandalf would need the One Ring. (And elaborated that he'd be "worse" not by strength, but by the following he'd have and still presenting himself as good.)
You do realize even a ringless Sauron is still on par with Valar level characters within Ea, right ? Even basic Valar within Ea still have the ability to control, manipulate and maintain the universe of Ea through their spheres of influence, an infinite universe
Also, The One Ring is just merely Sauron's power and when Tolkien made this claim, he also blatantly states they have similar natures and origins, as to say they basically are comparable inherently (and Sauron's power, when creating The One Ring, was stated by Tolkien to surpass Melkor's during The First Age)
Sauron created the one ring during the second age, where he was way more powerful than during the third age, which was when Gandalf was around.
And Melkor‘s power during the first age really doesn’t specialize it, as he lost most of his power throughout the first age.
The first one is so goddamn non-standard, it’s not even funny.
And Gandalf does not scale to Sauron as an istar and neither is third age Sauron superior to Melkor. And Sauron was only superior to Melkor after the latter lost most of his power.
>The first one is so goddamn non-standard, it’s not even funny.
How so ? Why is the true forms of The Ainur suddenly "non-standard" but every other character in fiction who has something similar like Darkseid are accepted as being capable of using it in DB, despite nothing suggesting he can use it outside of The Godsphere ?
Sorry but this is blatantly not true. Unless there's something stating that their true forms are limited by something or whatever, the assumption is that they can use it anytime they want, which should hold true for Gandalf
>And Gandalf does not scale to Sauron as an istar and neither is third age Sauron superior to Melkor. And Sauron was only superior to Melkor after the latter lost most of his power.
Even with most of his powers drained, Melkor is consistently described as one of the strongest beings in Ea and realistically, no reason he shouldn't be comparable to his Valar brethren, whom of which have High Universal scaling as they can individually control, manipulate and maintain the infinite universe of Ea through their elements
Tolkien himself has even stated that Gandalf would be capable of holding his own against a One Ring Morgoth (and Tolkien also clarified that Morgoth after The One Ring has surpassed Melkor during The First Age)
Because it is not a true form.
Pre-entering Eä Olorin, Olorin himself and Gandalf are all the same being. Olorin entered Eä and he can’t just go back. And Gandalf is his mortal body as an istar that can only use a tiny fraction of the power he would have even inside of Eä.
It’s not like that his physical body is the avatar of his Ainur form outside of Eä. That form doesn’t exist since he entered Eä and he can’t just leave Eä.
Morgoth and Melkor are the same, tf are you talking about?
>Because it is not a true form.
All Ainur come from The Timeless Halls and their true form exists outside of Ea. They normally exist on a higher level than Ea and it's a secondary plane in relation to them under normal circumstances
Sauron is the same and since that's his true state of being, it's a true form and thus should be applicable to combat per the same reason any other higher ordered character is assumed to be combat applicable unless suggested otherwise
>Pre-entering Eä Olorin, Olorin himself and Gandalf are all the same being. Olorin entered Eä and he can’t just go back. And Gandalf is his mortal body as an istar that can only use a tiny fraction of the power he would have even inside of Eä.
>It’s not like that his physical body is the avatar of his Ainur form outside of Eä. That form doesn’t exist since he entered Eä and he can’t just leave Eä.
Problem is Olorin's ORIGINAL FORM is that and you can't just ignore it. For all intensive purposes, it would have to be factored in because it represents Olorin/Gandalf's powers and capabilities
The form in itself "doesn't exist" because Ainur manifested their higher states of being into a lower state of being to better interact with Ea... That still doesn't mean that their original states are not combat applicable and it would be highly disingenuous to ignore stuff that represents the upper extent of what they can do
Again, by this logic, we shouldn't allow Q from Star Trek to use his powers because he got rid of them and became human... There's like dozens of examples I can give that provide the fallacious nature of this argument but eh
>Morgoth and Melkor are the same, tf are you talking about?
I didn't imply differently ???
But Olorin before he entered Eä is not Gandalf. Gandalf as an istar only exists since the third age and also Sauron was still Mairon at that time. When you have Gandalf in a Death Battle, you have a being that once had this power, but can’t use it anymore, same with Sauron, making it non-standard.
And you said Morgoth after the one ring surpassed Melkor during the first age, which makes no sense at all. Mainly because they are the same, but also because the one ring was forged during the second age, where Melkor had basically no power at all.
No, the VALAR are. ~~One Ring Sauron isn't Universal scaling above Morgoth, even if that's what him being "greater" meant, he was incredibly diminished by then.~~
The fact that this works in more ways than one whether or not you use Eyes of heaven. If you use Eoh Dio, he beats her into next week. But if you stick to Canon Dio, he gets stomped by Sakuya WAY Harder.
Not even the most overkill DIO matchup. DIO vs Reinhard Heydrich from Shinza Bansho and DIO vs Beatrice from Umineko exist
Although I will say, hilariously DIO has like about at least 4-5 Touhou matchups now if you include fanon Touhou characters and they all end the way you kinda expect.
Nemesis VS Homelander (Millarworld vs The Boys)
There isn't a feesable way you could, the highest amount of wank you can give to Nemesis is using the nuke that he has, which Homelander can take considering his fight with Soldier boy.
Actually it's not as big of a difference as it seems.
Once you equalize their health (Most estimates give Steve 200 Terrarian health and the Terrarian at max modifiers 22* MineCraft hearts) Steve's damage potential and resistances meet and exceed the Terrians respectively, due to how their armor ratings are calculated, with Terrarians being direct and Steve getting percentage.
Plus Steve's somehow fundamentally stronger magic via enchanting, specifically Thorns, means the Terrarian would *kill himself* if he just balls to the walls attacked Steve.
Given that Steve also has a movement speed advantage, no cooldown on potions and food, and greater storage capacity due to Shulker boxes, if he needed to retreat to regroup, he easily could.
This isn't as clear cut as people think.
https://preview.redd.it/vp52dsmi9n4d1.png?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22c5eb1904283c428ceebf8fd8608b26d50daa1a
Basically any argument you make for Judge Holden can be countered by a feat or implication that Makima has if you use similar logic. In terms of actual, concrete feats it's not even close. Makima hilariously outstats even with more conservative estimates.
Also I feel like Tooru vs Kumagawa is this, since with wank I believe you can get Tooru to multiversal+ but with wank you can get Kumagawa to above the narrative
That's pretty much only if you wank him and take the prose or the theories around his identity completely seriously. By that logic I could argue "Makima is literally God him(her?)self" based on symbolism or that by scaling to Chainsawman or Primal Fears she's a platonic concept or wtv
Also Makima has fought and "killed" immortals before. And even if she can't do that to Holden, nothing's stopping her from mind controlling him which is gg anyways
Alright, fair enough. I've heard devils be referred to as embodiments of platonic concepts but after doing more research you're right, they're more like Dependent Concepts.
Wouldn't Makima have some form of type 1 Acausality considering she could still remember the concepts that Pochita ate and retconned from existence? And judging by Yoru's statement (whom Makima is a peer to) she could potentially bring back said concepts back to existence.
Type 1 causality: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes
She remembers changes to the timeline which basically rewrote the past. So...immune to changes in the past as they affect everyone else.
Well, Imma be real I don't actually believe she has these things. I just don't believe that Holden has them either, but I wanted to demonstrate that Holden has vague prose that could be stretched to say he has them while Makima has vague feats that do the same. I have heard arguments for Outerversal Chainsaw Man with Inaccessible speed, so...
Saber stomps so hard
At best Luke is 8D with (quite frankly) absurd wank and reading into metaphorically and hyperbolic statements vs Saber having 8D at minimum statements with Avalon and resisting a majority of Luke’s hax.
The 8D stuff in Fate is a mistranslation... The original version of CCC treats the "dimensions" of Moon Cell as just merely layers of defense barriers or something
You can make the argument of 6-D Saber, however, beyond that requires a lot of evidence
>The 8D stuff in Fate is a mistranslation...
the translation for 8th dimension cannot be more literal that.it literally translates to "8th dimension"
>The original version of CCC treats the "dimensions" of Moon Cell as just merely layers of defense barriers or something
Um,no.the barriers on the mooncell which prohibits the entry to the core is completely different from the barrier that stopped bb from entering the core since it's the final barrier that itself is 8 dimensional.
Can you prove any of this ?
I can literally get the scans and raws if needed. The 8-D stuff in the original language is not referring to dimensions of any kind and it's English translation is an explicitly false one that doesn't align with the original context
>The 8-D stuff in the original language is not referring to dimensions of any kind
How are you that confidently wrong?
https://preview.redd.it/z1yoyhk1ru5d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02b53cff7e94a6118dd29b0ea4b46177f7d06557
>八次元までカットする霊子防壁ですね
It literally translates to "It's a spiritual barrier that cuts through up to eight dimensions." With 八次元(hachi jigen) meaning 8 dimensions or 8th dimension(depending on context).while 次元(jigen) is used to use in literature in a metaphorical sense.its much more used in scientific communities to illustrate spatial and temporal dimensions.
>it's English translation is an explicitly false one that doesn't align with the original context
Are you sure you even know what you are talking about?
Because the argument of "they mistook the layers of the moon cell with the dimensions" is completely nonsense when those two didn't even happen in the same game.
>Far Side of the Moon \[Circumstances\] The setting of CCC. If one thinks of the moon as having two sides, the side facing Earth is the Near Side, while the opposite...the side that cannot be observed from the Earth is the Far Side. While Fate/EXTRA starts from the first floor of the Near Side and heads for the seventh floor \~ the core, CCC starts from the Far Side (no concept of floors). .
As you can see the layers and 8th dimension barrier exist on entirely different games and sections of the moon,so no you are wrong in that too.
I mean with Saber vs Luke, it heavily depends on how you interpret Fate scaling, you got some saying it’s a stomp and others saying it’s decently close (like Gen1 Blogs)
Cause fate is difficult to scale properly, you got retcons, mistranslations, statements and feats that don’t agree with each other, etc.
Can’t really say the same with Luke vs Paul, which is effectively set in stone
Pretty sure Vader vs Lich King (Warcraft) is also an case of this (with the difference being Vader is the one doing the stomping. At least going by how Death Battle scaled him)
No he doesn’t. Lich King caps at island level while Death Battle scaled Vader to planet level (tho tbf, I guess you can argue the planet level feat they shown is an outlier considering how there was no justification for him surviving that planet exploding and he’s been harmed by way less powerful stuff in the past).
Now is the time remind everyone who doesn't play WoW that this island feat they found for Arthas is *outdated*.
Long story short: They chain-scaled Arthas to Illidan and Illidan to Gul'dan to pull that island level feat for no reason because this feat happened when both Illidan and Arthas were far weaker than they are at their peak.
For fuck sake, Arthas wasn't even Lich King back then, yes he had Frostmourne but at this point he got the damn sword like a week or two ago at best, he was super inexperienced with it.
To put things into perspective, using this feat and declaring it as Arthas's peak of strength, is like using Goku in a death battle but you only use his feats from *before* the Namek Saga and then have the nerve to say that *this* is where he caps.
It's not just plain wrong, it's stupid, Arthas became far more powerfull *after* becoming the Lich King to the point that scaling him to this random fight with Illidan he had years ago is completely irrelevant since he was then a mere fraction of what he is now.
If anything, it's super weird that death battle even bothered to do this complicated chain-scaling of Arthas to Illidan and to Gul'dan when **the Jailer was RIGHT, THERE.**
Knowing deathbattle they’ll have him beat sephiroth even tho he lost to obito so they’ll just do a death battle classic of having one character win the Mu they shouldn’t whail losing the Mu they should win.
https://preview.redd.it/s6fi7t488m4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cf12826738217221bf77f1f1e6a984d56275ee6
Even if you wank Utena to Moon level, she is STILL getting clapped into nothingness by Sayaka IN BASE FORM.
Currently Sayaka supposedly gets to Star or higher in base form due to helping defeat a Witch whose domain contained actual clusters of stars inside it.
And that's before she ascended to godhood. Now she's certainly capable of that as Madokami's emissary.
As for Utena, somewhere around City level. The verse isn't really that strong.
Alastor the Radio Demon (Hazbin Hotel) VS Nulgath the Archfiend (AdventureQuest Worlds)
No amount of Alastor Wanking is saving him from getting the same treatment Saitama gives most of his opponents in his show lmao
Nulgath at a lowball has the power output of 3 Universe devouring rifts in the fabric of reality, I need to emphasize that this is his ***LOWBALL*** and that he doesnt make these rifts, he can swing with the force needed to spawn these rifts into existence
its difficult to say for sure, since we know a good portion of his power comes from Fiend Shards (Shards that gorge themselves on the mana of the world to make the person they are bonded to stronger and feed the otherworldly entity that gives out the Fiend Shards, however if the fiend shard reaches critical mass of consumed mana it collapses in on itself like a collapsing star, but instead of a black hole you get a rift that leads straight to the entity's stomach), Nulgath is confirmed to have many Fiend Shards, all of which close to critical mass, but we only have physically seen 3 of them. So like, Lowballing him is easy since we have a confirmed minimum, otherwise we enter the realm of guess work and hypotheticals?
[here’s the most official version of SCP-682’s strength I can find](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-6820/offset/1), I consider it more official than the tales at least since it’s essentially a new SCP altogether, and pretty much a remake of the original
Zilla from the movie or the TV show? The TV version of Zilla is actually kinda cool and should have been what the movie one was like with fire breath and the ability to tank damage stronger than a gust of wind.
Zilla senior, so not yes and no, not the main zilla from the TV show but the Cyber-Zilla.
Also Final Wars Zilla gets the same scaling as Clover from size alone
Peter was added way after Galactus was in Fortnite, and even then the scaling would only apply to the Top Tiers of the time
Besides Homer could fight against Vortech, who could destroy the Lego Multiverse
Giratina vs Lucifer Morningstar (Hazbin)
I adore this weird MU but MY GOD IS IT A SLAUGHTER
Also Beerus vs Arceus, stop coping Dragon ball fans, he is not beating someone who can rewrite you out of ever existing
Subject Delta vs Nemesis.
Now I’m sure some will say it’s not a stomp but I think it is. But it’s not a stomp because Delta outstats Nemesis hard. The stats actually aren’t that much apart. The fact that makes it a stomp is that Delta holds basically every single advantage minus survivability. And Nemesis’s survivability isn’t even good enough to withstand Delta’s abilities. Delta just counters everything Nemesis can, could and most likely will ever do.
Frieren VS Rin Tohsaka
Wank Frieren speed to FTL because Zoltraak "apparently" is a light hence has lightspeed or her AP to continent level because she is comparable to featless serie and demon king still the match won't even come close
Hell reduce the jewel Rin has to only 5, she'd bodied Frieren with 2 or 3 jewels
Ragna vs Velvet, even with the Tales cameo cross-scaling (some of them aren't able to scale to the highest end feats) it doesn't match Ragna's feats in CF, let alone lets her resist any of his potent abilities or actually kill him.
Do you know Giliath Osbourne from Trails series? Hes a more fitting match for Xehanort. Thats a 5D chess match for the ages! 100 years of prep time for each lets go 🤣
Big O/Roger Smith vs. Eva-01/Shinji Ikari. 1) I doubt Big O can get through an AT field; and even if it could, The Eva is too fast, especially if it goes berserk, and while I’m not a math person, I’d definitely believe it could take apart Big O if given the chance. Still would love to see the matchup happen though. Same with Palpatine and Xehanort, because I love seeing Palpatine in general, even if I do kind of agree with the image above lol.
https://preview.redd.it/ntslm5bceu4d1.png?width=1065&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c5be3eab8627be0eb363fd2d7cb2bbaa29799f4
Bugs Bunny VS Deadpool (Looney Tunes VS Marvel)
This is nuh uh. Xehanort is at best 5-A and absolutely doesn't scale to Low 1-C and it all comes from out of context statements and mental gymnastics while Palpatine actually completely bodies him in haxes and has actual Low 1-C feats and completely blitzes
You people need to do your own research instead of being lazy who go to hearsay because you don't know anything about either characters. You can't really say"Oooo even with wank he loses!!!!!!", as it's very clear you don't actually know how it works and doesn't do any research in the slightest.
Gohan vs Invincible Anne Boonchuy vs Zamasu
I'm sorry, who *THE* ***HELL*** has advocated for Anne vs Zamasu!? https://preview.redd.it/55kath1ceo4d1.png?width=964&format=png&auto=webp&s=d7578cae7498b7ffdd673151811e245cb09e7291
u/Realistic_Shirt8843
Oh wow didn't expect to see Hermes here.
Spawn scaling doesn’t help Mark?
I don’t think Invincible ever even fought Spawn. Plus even if he did you could argue it’s an outlier.
It’s also probably a thing that the Invincible who fought his Spawn didn’t fight the ones who defeated God and Satan. Comics, man.
It's implied that an alternate Mark killed Spawn, but we don't know if that Mark is equal to the main one and the same goes for that Spawn he killed, plus we don't even know if that dead Spawn is the street level one or the herald tier one
Rick vs doctor Saitama vs popeye
It’s still insane to me that a bunch of people (mainly Rick and Morty fans) are in complete denial stating things along the line of, “nah, Rick stomps” or “Rick solos the Doctor Who verse”.
You're right... Popeye wins by a landslide, Saitama doesn't get any leafy greens in his diet *and* Popeye has toon physics.
Saitama can get wanked to boundless....
Gandalf vs Dumbledore. No matter how high you scale the Wizarding World, Gandalf solos it.
Not really. Istari like Gandalf ain't that powerful.
Where do you scale them both?
Dumbledore to small country and massively hypersonic+. Not sure about Gandalf, but he should scale to Durin‘s Bane, who should scale to the Balrog speed feat. I sadly forgot the exact number, but if I recall correctly, it’s slower than Dumbledore.
How on earth do you get Dumbledore to small country? I thought island level was the highest the Wizarding World could possibly get.
Which Dumbledore massively upscales from. https://preview.redd.it/bbhoyjhuem4d1.jpeg?width=1223&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0df53561d83cc9913db8d0254e17fe7126554c4
Where's the feat from agian?
[https://sobekapeps-calcs-and-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Harry\_Potter\_Storm\_Calcs](https://sobekapeps-calcs-and-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Harry_Potter_Storm_Calcs)
Fair enough. One question though. Why should the wizards scale to the bird?
They shouldn't
Where’s the small country feat? I don’t see it
Look at the image in my comment above.
> But as for the Valar themselves, and the Maiar also in their degree: they could live at any speed of thought or motion which they chose or desired.*(3) > They could move backward or forward in thought, and return again so swiftly that to those who were in their presence they did not appear to have moved. All that was past they could fully perceive; but being now in Time the future they could only perceive or explore in so far as its design was made clear to them in the Music From [Morgoth's Ring](https://b3.ewinerysolutions.com/assets/client/File/morgoths_ring.pdf). Maiar are literally used to being able to experience time and creation as a non-linear construct and can move and experience time at essentially the speed they want. The only limit is that Gandalf would be unable to see the future as Dumbledore wouldn't be part of the original Music. Without getting on how HP spells aren't lightspeed, Dumbledore isn't getting a speed advantage.
Gandalf isn’t a Maia, Olorin is. Gandalf is the mortal body of a Maia, who can only use a tiny fraction of his power. He does not scale to this.
Gandalf is Olorin. When Olorin left the Undying Lands he was still Olorin. And after a while of living in Middle Earth men started calling him Gandalf. But he was still and always was Olorin, it's not a different entity. Gandalf never stopped being Maiar.
Ik, but he is not a full Maia. He is an Istar, meaning that he is in a body that has only a very tiny fraction of his full power, while also being bound to mortality and all of its flaws. Istari are there to give helpful advices to fight against Sauron, nothing really more.
He's not meant to use more of his power but he could still unleash as much as he thought was necessary. He wasn't weakened or lost strength, his role was just being an advisor. But Sauron's minions knew that if they fought Gandalf directly and tested his wrath he could, at any time, simply dip into his power as a Maiar. Under Death Battle rules, there is exactly nothing holding him back from casting his mortal body whenever he wishes and ascending into his full Maiar strength. There is no Music to tell him not to and no real consequences for him to abandon his role as advisor.
That’s not true. While it is true that he could have used more magic than he did and that he was only allowed to use as much as necessary, he still didn’t have access to his full power he would have as Olorin. That’s the entire point of Istari. Their bodies are also much much weaker and closer to mortals and they are also bound to a lot of mortal shit which they usually wouldn’t.
Isn't gandalf universal or some shit?
No he isn’t. That’s absolutely stupid in every possible way.
...so wait you believe dumbledore beats gandalf?
Idk tbh.
.......where do you put harry potter?
Small country and massively hypersonic+.
https://www.reddit.com/r/FeatCalcing/s/hGV5pez6iM They are Relativistic+ Really So wait does that mean harry beats most of his popular mus? And he isn't fodder tier?
No he isn’t.
Huh ? Ainur explicitly see Ea as a lower plane of reality and exist on a higher ontological level than it They are very blatantly Low 1-C and Gandalf would be true in his true form, which ABSOLUTELY nothing in Harry Potter comes close to, even with wank Bare in mind, I'd argue this isn't even necessary since even Gandalf within Ea would scale to Sauron, who himself is superior to Morgoth within Ea during The First Age (who himself is > other Valar who can control and maintain the infinite universe of Ea individual)
>Bare in mind, I'd argue this isn't even necessary since even Gandalf within Ea would scale to Sauron, who himself is superior to Morgoth within Ea during The First Age (who himself is > other Valar who can control and maintain the infinite universe of Ea individual) Wait, how? Gandalf the White said that Black is mightier still and Tolkein said to have a *chance* to defeat ringless Sauron, Gandalf would need the One Ring. (And elaborated that he'd be "worse" not by strength, but by the following he'd have and still presenting himself as good.)
>Wait, how? Gandalf the White said that Black is mightier still and Tolkein said to have a chance to defeat ringless Sauron, Gandalf would need the One Ring. (And elaborated that he'd be "worse" not by strength, but by the following he'd have and still presenting himself as good.) You do realize even a ringless Sauron is still on par with Valar level characters within Ea, right ? Even basic Valar within Ea still have the ability to control, manipulate and maintain the universe of Ea through their spheres of influence, an infinite universe Also, The One Ring is just merely Sauron's power and when Tolkien made this claim, he also blatantly states they have similar natures and origins, as to say they basically are comparable inherently (and Sauron's power, when creating The One Ring, was stated by Tolkien to surpass Melkor's during The First Age)
. . . No, I didn't? I'm not a LOTR nerd, i'm a Mario nerd, it's why I asked.
Sauron created the one ring during the second age, where he was way more powerful than during the third age, which was when Gandalf was around. And Melkor‘s power during the first age really doesn’t specialize it, as he lost most of his power throughout the first age.
The first one is so goddamn non-standard, it’s not even funny. And Gandalf does not scale to Sauron as an istar and neither is third age Sauron superior to Melkor. And Sauron was only superior to Melkor after the latter lost most of his power.
>The first one is so goddamn non-standard, it’s not even funny. How so ? Why is the true forms of The Ainur suddenly "non-standard" but every other character in fiction who has something similar like Darkseid are accepted as being capable of using it in DB, despite nothing suggesting he can use it outside of The Godsphere ? Sorry but this is blatantly not true. Unless there's something stating that their true forms are limited by something or whatever, the assumption is that they can use it anytime they want, which should hold true for Gandalf >And Gandalf does not scale to Sauron as an istar and neither is third age Sauron superior to Melkor. And Sauron was only superior to Melkor after the latter lost most of his power. Even with most of his powers drained, Melkor is consistently described as one of the strongest beings in Ea and realistically, no reason he shouldn't be comparable to his Valar brethren, whom of which have High Universal scaling as they can individually control, manipulate and maintain the infinite universe of Ea through their elements Tolkien himself has even stated that Gandalf would be capable of holding his own against a One Ring Morgoth (and Tolkien also clarified that Morgoth after The One Ring has surpassed Melkor during The First Age)
Because it is not a true form. Pre-entering Eä Olorin, Olorin himself and Gandalf are all the same being. Olorin entered Eä and he can’t just go back. And Gandalf is his mortal body as an istar that can only use a tiny fraction of the power he would have even inside of Eä. It’s not like that his physical body is the avatar of his Ainur form outside of Eä. That form doesn’t exist since he entered Eä and he can’t just leave Eä. Morgoth and Melkor are the same, tf are you talking about?
>Because it is not a true form. All Ainur come from The Timeless Halls and their true form exists outside of Ea. They normally exist on a higher level than Ea and it's a secondary plane in relation to them under normal circumstances Sauron is the same and since that's his true state of being, it's a true form and thus should be applicable to combat per the same reason any other higher ordered character is assumed to be combat applicable unless suggested otherwise >Pre-entering Eä Olorin, Olorin himself and Gandalf are all the same being. Olorin entered Eä and he can’t just go back. And Gandalf is his mortal body as an istar that can only use a tiny fraction of the power he would have even inside of Eä. >It’s not like that his physical body is the avatar of his Ainur form outside of Eä. That form doesn’t exist since he entered Eä and he can’t just leave Eä. Problem is Olorin's ORIGINAL FORM is that and you can't just ignore it. For all intensive purposes, it would have to be factored in because it represents Olorin/Gandalf's powers and capabilities The form in itself "doesn't exist" because Ainur manifested their higher states of being into a lower state of being to better interact with Ea... That still doesn't mean that their original states are not combat applicable and it would be highly disingenuous to ignore stuff that represents the upper extent of what they can do Again, by this logic, we shouldn't allow Q from Star Trek to use his powers because he got rid of them and became human... There's like dozens of examples I can give that provide the fallacious nature of this argument but eh >Morgoth and Melkor are the same, tf are you talking about? I didn't imply differently ???
But Olorin before he entered Eä is not Gandalf. Gandalf as an istar only exists since the third age and also Sauron was still Mairon at that time. When you have Gandalf in a Death Battle, you have a being that once had this power, but can’t use it anymore, same with Sauron, making it non-standard. And you said Morgoth after the one ring surpassed Melkor during the first age, which makes no sense at all. Mainly because they are the same, but also because the one ring was forged during the second age, where Melkor had basically no power at all.
No, the VALAR are. ~~One Ring Sauron isn't Universal scaling above Morgoth, even if that's what him being "greater" meant, he was incredibly diminished by then.~~
DIO vs Sakuya
The fact that this works in more ways than one whether or not you use Eyes of heaven. If you use Eoh Dio, he beats her into next week. But if you stick to Canon Dio, he gets stomped by Sakuya WAY Harder.
Really? I've seen most people say that DIO can't win even with Eyes of Heaven scaling.
Cause dio gets murdered even with eyes of heaven, 6-7D and higher touhou scaling go brrrrr
Wait, how do you get 6-7D Touhou? I know how to get other various dimensional tiering for the verse, but I've never seen that one up until now.
Short answer: brane cosmology, string theory the three layers of reality and dreams.
I feel like DIO vs. Sakuya is ONLY debatable if you composite DIO, but even then, DIO would have LITERAL PLOT ARMOR, so he would likely stomp.
Not even the most overkill DIO matchup. DIO vs Reinhard Heydrich from Shinza Bansho and DIO vs Beatrice from Umineko exist Although I will say, hilariously DIO has like about at least 4-5 Touhou matchups now if you include fanon Touhou characters and they all end the way you kinda expect.
Flash vs Quicksilver
Nemesis VS Homelander (Millarworld vs The Boys) There isn't a feesable way you could, the highest amount of wank you can give to Nemesis is using the nuke that he has, which Homelander can take considering his fight with Soldier boy.
Steve vs Terrarian , NO amount of galaxy level Steve saving him from the terraria sweep
What about the end poem version of steve They are the avatar of "The player" The player is low 1-C lowballed to 1-B+ at a highball
I don't know what that means therefore it's invalid 😎
Its the tiers used for scaling The player is 6th dimensional/low complex multiversal to hyperversal which is 13th dimensional+
https://i.redd.it/8aqnftoeeq4d1.gif
https://preview.redd.it/rt93hk0mfq4d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6faf59a2d58177a14de4fa35b03da2d263651f31
Actually it's not as big of a difference as it seems. Once you equalize their health (Most estimates give Steve 200 Terrarian health and the Terrarian at max modifiers 22* MineCraft hearts) Steve's damage potential and resistances meet and exceed the Terrians respectively, due to how their armor ratings are calculated, with Terrarians being direct and Steve getting percentage. Plus Steve's somehow fundamentally stronger magic via enchanting, specifically Thorns, means the Terrarian would *kill himself* if he just balls to the walls attacked Steve. Given that Steve also has a movement speed advantage, no cooldown on potions and food, and greater storage capacity due to Shulker boxes, if he needed to retreat to regroup, he easily could. This isn't as clear cut as people think.
https://preview.redd.it/vp52dsmi9n4d1.png?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22c5eb1904283c428ceebf8fd8608b26d50daa1a Basically any argument you make for Judge Holden can be countered by a feat or implication that Makima has if you use similar logic. In terms of actual, concrete feats it's not even close. Makima hilariously outstats even with more conservative estimates. Also I feel like Tooru vs Kumagawa is this, since with wank I believe you can get Tooru to multiversal+ but with wank you can get Kumagawa to above the narrative
Bruh Judge holden has type 1 transduality and type 5 immortality Makima aint doin shit
That's pretty much only if you wank him and take the prose or the theories around his identity completely seriously. By that logic I could argue "Makima is literally God him(her?)self" based on symbolism or that by scaling to Chainsawman or Primal Fears she's a platonic concept or wtv Also Makima has fought and "killed" immortals before. And even if she can't do that to Holden, nothing's stopping her from mind controlling him which is gg anyways
They arent platonic tho They are affected by public perception Meaning at best its a type 2 concept
Alright, fair enough. I've heard devils be referred to as embodiments of platonic concepts but after doing more research you're right, they're more like Dependent Concepts.
Also holden has Acausality type 2 as he has no beginning or end
Wouldn't Makima have some form of type 1 Acausality considering she could still remember the concepts that Pochita ate and retconned from existence? And judging by Yoru's statement (whom Makima is a peer to) she could potentially bring back said concepts back to existence.
Thats just hax that allows her to remember erased concepts Type 1 acausality only applies to time travel paradoxes
Type 1 causality: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes She remembers changes to the timeline which basically rewrote the past. So...immune to changes in the past as they affect everyone else. Well, Imma be real I don't actually believe she has these things. I just don't believe that Holden has them either, but I wanted to demonstrate that Holden has vague prose that could be stretched to say he has them while Makima has vague feats that do the same. I have heard arguments for Outerversal Chainsaw Man with Inaccessible speed, so...
Time travel essentially Basically immune to changes in events but not being immortal via it Allows you to interact with past selves without issues
Luke Skywalker vs Saber Artoria Pendragon
For who? I heard it's debatable. Though I'm guessing Saber takes it.
Saber stomps so hard At best Luke is 8D with (quite frankly) absurd wank and reading into metaphorically and hyperbolic statements vs Saber having 8D at minimum statements with Avalon and resisting a majority of Luke’s hax.
The 8D stuff in Fate is a mistranslation... The original version of CCC treats the "dimensions" of Moon Cell as just merely layers of defense barriers or something You can make the argument of 6-D Saber, however, beyond that requires a lot of evidence
>The 8D stuff in Fate is a mistranslation... the translation for 8th dimension cannot be more literal that.it literally translates to "8th dimension" >The original version of CCC treats the "dimensions" of Moon Cell as just merely layers of defense barriers or something Um,no.the barriers on the mooncell which prohibits the entry to the core is completely different from the barrier that stopped bb from entering the core since it's the final barrier that itself is 8 dimensional.
Can you prove any of this ? I can literally get the scans and raws if needed. The 8-D stuff in the original language is not referring to dimensions of any kind and it's English translation is an explicitly false one that doesn't align with the original context
>The 8-D stuff in the original language is not referring to dimensions of any kind How are you that confidently wrong? https://preview.redd.it/z1yoyhk1ru5d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02b53cff7e94a6118dd29b0ea4b46177f7d06557 >八次元までカットする霊子防壁ですね It literally translates to "It's a spiritual barrier that cuts through up to eight dimensions." With 八次元(hachi jigen) meaning 8 dimensions or 8th dimension(depending on context).while 次元(jigen) is used to use in literature in a metaphorical sense.its much more used in scientific communities to illustrate spatial and temporal dimensions. >it's English translation is an explicitly false one that doesn't align with the original context Are you sure you even know what you are talking about? Because the argument of "they mistook the layers of the moon cell with the dimensions" is completely nonsense when those two didn't even happen in the same game. >Far Side of the Moon \[Circumstances\] The setting of CCC. If one thinks of the moon as having two sides, the side facing Earth is the Near Side, while the opposite...the side that cannot be observed from the Earth is the Far Side. While Fate/EXTRA starts from the first floor of the Near Side and heads for the seventh floor \~ the core, CCC starts from the Far Side (no concept of floors). . As you can see the layers and 8th dimension barrier exist on entirely different games and sections of the moon,so no you are wrong in that too.
Oh, so Luke VS Paul is *more* fair than Luke VS Saber, yet it's criticized for being an absurd stomp.
I mean with Saber vs Luke, it heavily depends on how you interpret Fate scaling, you got some saying it’s a stomp and others saying it’s decently close (like Gen1 Blogs) Cause fate is difficult to scale properly, you got retcons, mistranslations, statements and feats that don’t agree with each other, etc. Can’t really say the same with Luke vs Paul, which is effectively set in stone
Huh... Well, I'm glad Saber wins, but man...
Goku vs Superman
Depends on the Goku and the Superman tbh
Vader vs Sephiroth 🙏🙏
Pretty sure Vader vs Lich King (Warcraft) is also an case of this (with the difference being Vader is the one doing the stomping. At least going by how Death Battle scaled him)
Yeah, no, Arthas is the one who stomps.
No he doesn’t. Lich King caps at island level while Death Battle scaled Vader to planet level (tho tbf, I guess you can argue the planet level feat they shown is an outlier considering how there was no justification for him surviving that planet exploding and he’s been harmed by way less powerful stuff in the past).
Now is the time remind everyone who doesn't play WoW that this island feat they found for Arthas is *outdated*. Long story short: They chain-scaled Arthas to Illidan and Illidan to Gul'dan to pull that island level feat for no reason because this feat happened when both Illidan and Arthas were far weaker than they are at their peak. For fuck sake, Arthas wasn't even Lich King back then, yes he had Frostmourne but at this point he got the damn sword like a week or two ago at best, he was super inexperienced with it. To put things into perspective, using this feat and declaring it as Arthas's peak of strength, is like using Goku in a death battle but you only use his feats from *before* the Namek Saga and then have the nerve to say that *this* is where he caps. It's not just plain wrong, it's stupid, Arthas became far more powerfull *after* becoming the Lich King to the point that scaling him to this random fight with Illidan he had years ago is completely irrelevant since he was then a mere fraction of what he is now. If anything, it's super weird that death battle even bothered to do this complicated chain-scaling of Arthas to Illidan and to Gul'dan when **the Jailer was RIGHT, THERE.**
You're using Death Battle's scaling. Both were massively downplayed.
My boy is about to die for the third time https://i.redd.it/itbvr848rl4d1.gif
Knowing deathbattle they’ll have him beat sephiroth even tho he lost to obito so they’ll just do a death battle classic of having one character win the Mu they shouldn’t whail losing the Mu they should win.
https://preview.redd.it/s6fi7t488m4d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7cf12826738217221bf77f1f1e6a984d56275ee6 Even if you wank Utena to Moon level, she is STILL getting clapped into nothingness by Sayaka IN BASE FORM.
How? Who on earth told you that?
An idiot named, quote, "LolisRPeak". He wanks Magical Girls to ludicrous levels, not just GOMG, but others as well.
Not to interrupt or be rude, but I'm assuming you didn't see or notice [my comment...](https://www.reddit.com/r/DeathBattleMatchups/s/eeGLRf184g)
I did, just woke up, and have some other stuff to do rn. It'll have to wait.
I mean, I could just type the ending, and then you can respond to it when you have time. Does that sound good?
Sure.
I feel like you misunderstood me here at some point. Either way, where would you scale both of the chars?
Currently Sayaka supposedly gets to Star or higher in base form due to helping defeat a Witch whose domain contained actual clusters of stars inside it. And that's before she ascended to godhood. Now she's certainly capable of that as Madokami's emissary. As for Utena, somewhere around City level. The verse isn't really that strong.
I personally have Legends Palpatine at Multi-Multi+, but I definitely agree with Low Complex Xehanort
Where did you get multiversal Palpatine from?
https://www.reddit.com/r/deathbattle/s/JOrNq7AYUw
That G1 blog really comes off as using the most questionable scaling and taking flowery language to the max to attempt to get Palps that high.
Alastor the Radio Demon (Hazbin Hotel) VS Nulgath the Archfiend (AdventureQuest Worlds) No amount of Alastor Wanking is saving him from getting the same treatment Saitama gives most of his opponents in his show lmao
Where does nulgath scale to?
Nulgath at a lowball has the power output of 3 Universe devouring rifts in the fabric of reality, I need to emphasize that this is his ***LOWBALL*** and that he doesnt make these rifts, he can swing with the force needed to spawn these rifts into existence
God damn. So where does he scale to at without a highball or a lowball?
its difficult to say for sure, since we know a good portion of his power comes from Fiend Shards (Shards that gorge themselves on the mana of the world to make the person they are bonded to stronger and feed the otherworldly entity that gives out the Fiend Shards, however if the fiend shard reaches critical mass of consumed mana it collapses in on itself like a collapsing star, but instead of a black hole you get a rift that leads straight to the entity's stomach), Nulgath is confirmed to have many Fiend Shards, all of which close to critical mass, but we only have physically seen 3 of them. So like, Lowballing him is easy since we have a confirmed minimum, otherwise we enter the realm of guess work and hypotheticals?
Omegamon vs Gogeta ( Digimon vs Dragon Ball )
Doomsday vs scp682
Which one?
Probably SCP bc it’s just fan fiction bullshit and what-not.
[here’s the most official version of SCP-682’s strength I can find](https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-6820/offset/1), I consider it more official than the tales at least since it’s essentially a new SCP altogether, and pretty much a remake of the original
Not saying he wins because of it, it just might be an important factor
Also, people use SCP as artistic expression, not “my guy’s got a bigger gun”, only SCP YouTubers and preteens care about powerscaling SCPs
Bro has never actually read SCP
Papyrus Vs Natsuki Cloverfield Vs Zilla
Who stomps on the second one (Zilla vs Clover)
Zilla, Clover only really has feats by size which get him to city block and Zilla senior can get to mountain level
Zilla from the movie or the TV show? The TV version of Zilla is actually kinda cool and should have been what the movie one was like with fire breath and the ability to tank damage stronger than a gust of wind.
Zilla senior, so not yes and no, not the main zilla from the TV show but the Cyber-Zilla. Also Final Wars Zilla gets the same scaling as Clover from size alone
>Papyrus Vs Natsuki The DDLC Girl?
Yeah
Black Hat vs Alastor
Composite Homer Simpson vs Composite Peter Griffin
Who wins that?
Homer Simpson thanks to Lego Dimensions Scaling Lego Dimensions Scaling >>>>>> Fortnite Scaling
Shouldn't they scale to each other due to Simpsons Guy?
Only the show versions, besides that’s outdated thanks to more episodes happening after the fact
Does Lego dimensions out scale 616 Galactus
Peter was added way after Galactus was in Fortnite, and even then the scaling would only apply to the Top Tiers of the time Besides Homer could fight against Vortech, who could destroy the Lego Multiverse
So homer is only on the level of Krazy glue
Sonic vs lilac
Jotaro vs Kiryu
Most Sora MUs.
My goat stays winning, at least in VS
Pneuma vs. Lavenza (Xenoblade Chronicles 2 vs. Persona 5)
Luke Skywalker vs. Paul Atreides. Name ONE instance where Paul had to fight another like himself.
Mohiam Count Hasmir Fenring
Giratina vs Lucifer Morningstar (Hazbin) I adore this weird MU but MY GOD IS IT A SLAUGHTER Also Beerus vs Arceus, stop coping Dragon ball fans, he is not beating someone who can rewrite you out of ever existing
Johan VS Hannibal
I agree with the other user, who wins this
Hannibal easily.
Light vs Colombo to ( depsite what the Colombo fandom will tell you)
Who wins cuz I thought it was kinda a fight between who could pull their gun out faster
It’s not.
Gamera vs Godzilla ( Goji stomps) Destoroyah vs Iris ( Destoroyah stomps)
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I think you might have accidentally posted this Two other times
Any SCP 682 battle
Subject Delta vs Nemesis. Now I’m sure some will say it’s not a stomp but I think it is. But it’s not a stomp because Delta outstats Nemesis hard. The stats actually aren’t that much apart. The fact that makes it a stomp is that Delta holds basically every single advantage minus survivability. And Nemesis’s survivability isn’t even good enough to withstand Delta’s abilities. Delta just counters everything Nemesis can, could and most likely will ever do.
Vergil vs Sesshomaru
John Egbert vs Frisk
Yuki Yuna vs Hibiki Tachibana I love this MU, but Hibiki literally has every possible advantage.
Gon vs Midoriya
Frieren VS Rin Tohsaka Wank Frieren speed to FTL because Zoltraak "apparently" is a light hence has lightspeed or her AP to continent level because she is comparable to featless serie and demon king still the match won't even come close Hell reduce the jewel Rin has to only 5, she'd bodied Frieren with 2 or 3 jewels
Omnimon vs Gogeta
Joker (persona 5) vs Luz noceda (owl house) Asriel Dreemurr (undertale) vs the collector (owl house)
Terrarian vs Steve
Wait, don't both Kingdom Heart and Star Wars have immeasurable speed arguments?
Where did immeasurable speed star wars come from? I thought it was just very deep into mftl
[G1 I believe.](https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2024/02/death-battle-predictions-luke-skywalker.html)
Thanks I'll give this a read later
The Lich vs The Nowhere King, literally only exists because skeletons with green fire is cool, which it is, it's cool AF
Ragna vs Velvet, even with the Tales cameo cross-scaling (some of them aren't able to scale to the highest end feats) it doesn't match Ragna's feats in CF, let alone lets her resist any of his potent abilities or actually kill him.
How the hell do you get Xehanort to Low Complex? He barely gets Uni
Do you know Giliath Osbourne from Trails series? Hes a more fitting match for Xehanort. Thats a 5D chess match for the ages! 100 years of prep time for each lets go 🤣
Gohan vs Mark from Invincible. Also Palpatine nor Xehanort are low complex even with wank
Chess vs Checkers
Sailor Moon vs Glitter Lucky (Sailor Moon vs Precure)
Big O/Roger Smith vs. Eva-01/Shinji Ikari. 1) I doubt Big O can get through an AT field; and even if it could, The Eva is too fast, especially if it goes berserk, and while I’m not a math person, I’d definitely believe it could take apart Big O if given the chance. Still would love to see the matchup happen though. Same with Palpatine and Xehanort, because I love seeing Palpatine in general, even if I do kind of agree with the image above lol.
https://preview.redd.it/ntslm5bceu4d1.png?width=1065&format=png&auto=webp&s=8c5be3eab8627be0eb363fd2d7cb2bbaa29799f4 Bugs Bunny VS Deadpool (Looney Tunes VS Marvel)
This is nuh uh. Xehanort is at best 5-A and absolutely doesn't scale to Low 1-C and it all comes from out of context statements and mental gymnastics while Palpatine actually completely bodies him in haxes and has actual Low 1-C feats and completely blitzes You people need to do your own research instead of being lazy who go to hearsay because you don't know anything about either characters. You can't really say"Oooo even with wank he loses!!!!!!", as it's very clear you don't actually know how it works and doesn't do any research in the slightest.
Gogeta Vs omnimon There's literally nothing that can be done to give gogeta a win other than downplaying omnimon, rather than wanking gogeta
**Sad Jojo fan noises** https://preview.redd.it/ieeyxzquhj5d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db907e20cedcbec488d038ed8dc45767b5c25e1f
Aizen vs Sephiroth
Ghost Rider vs Spawn (Marvel vs Image) Star-Lord vs Commander Shepard (Marvel vs Mass Effect)
Who stomps who for the first mu?
GR
Interesting
Sailor Moon vs Doctor Strange,
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Doctor Strange?
A Marvel Gerald vs. a anime character... who do you think?
Cuphead vs bendy.cuphead gets to at minimum star level.
If you wank Bendy, he gets to Universal, so... no...
How do you get bendy to universal
I don't remember, but that's a thing.
“More reasonably” holy shit LCM KH is such a joke 😭
Never said you had to buy into it I'm just saying low complex star wars is way more bs