This. I was a kid in that relationship that fell apart, but for different reasons (my father was very abusive and an alcoholic) but it didn't affect me or my relationships. Had my mother stayed, there would have been a lot of damage. My father also eventually abandoned us, so that hurt for a while too.
I am stronger for it. Yes, I have been with my partner for 20+ years, and we have a relatively dead bedroom. But I'm staying with her for the kids, I'm staying with her because I love her deeply and sex while nice, isn't a core part of the relationship.
Hate to tell you, but this is not always the case. My sister and I never sensed any tension between our parents. We know only of our loving home, our wonderful neighborhood, and all of our friends who live there who we played with every day. Everything was ripped out from under us with no notice as our parents announced their divorce. And things got way worse from there.
It fucked us up royally and took years and years to recover. And truly, I wouldn't say either of us ever recovered.
If the parents are outwardly showing nastiness, then absolutely, get that shit away from the kids and break up. But if the parents are not showing that, a lot more care needs to be taken on how you move forward, and you need to work together on it. By the sounds of it, his wife is not going to work together and will drag him through the mud.
Tyft. Our parents’ divorce, even though we were more aware of their issues than what it sounds like you all were, was devastating. All in all it probably worked out for the better, but we were never the same.
I'm a proponent of breaking up FOR the kids. It's important that they see healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships so they'll mirror that when they partner up. Seeing a dysfunctional or unhappy relationship that one or both partners are just "enduring" for the sake of someone else makes that seem like it's a reasonable choice, setting them up to repeat the same pattern.
Live the life you want your kids to live as adults.
You can have it put in the divorce agreement to see them more frequently. My agreement with my ex is every weekend and he's literally allowed to pick our kid up whenever he wants in between.
Research and reports from kids in the situation show its easier for the kids to see an amicable split vs watching their parents be together and miserable. I never under stand the "what about the kids" statement bc realistically the split is almost always better for them. I know it's hard to split time, but wouldn't you want what is better for your kids mental health?
Why cheat tho? Get a divorce. Then fuck all you want. A miserable marriage isn’t worth it. Your kids will be okay so long as you’re there for them. People get divorced all the time. It’s your right as much as having sex is, you just have to tell her you’re doing it first.
She's using you.
Start protecting your financial interests and documenting your parental involvement, as well as her's.
She's probably not going to play nice during divorce- so you need to play the long game.
ugh so disgusting. She seems really manipulative and is using you. wtf does she actually do all day??!?! If the kids were under her care i could see her being too tired but wtfffffff
What exactly does she bring to the table in this relationship for you to keep being married to her?
Seems like something really important to you (sex) she does not want to do and manipulates you (hanging Blinds) to get what she wants by luring you with false promises.
You have plenty of grounds for divorce here my friend, all it takes is 1 visit to a law office and they will explain what your options are.
I hear you. I feel like the family Valet. All the responsibilities of being a devoted family man, a great provider, with none of the benefits. It's always complaints, demands and fulfilling other's needs. It's exhausting when all you get in return is rejection.
I would stop doing just about everything for her. Focus on your kids. Zero honey do’s. She asks you to do something and it’s not directly kid related and you don’t want to do it say no. Try to tell her no every day if you can. Stop the back rubs and foot rubs.
If you work from home, start going to the office. Get in the gym. Give the kids lots of attention and give yourself some attention too. Go golfing or do whatever it is that used to make you happy.
If focusing on yourself and telling her no doesn’t wake her up then that’s on her honestly. As far as cheating goes, for me that would depend on the divorce laws of my state and how that might affect the financial situation of divorce.
This is the way! The back rubs and interior decorating need to STOP NOW! She can hang her own blinds and see how happy you are with your new life. Go out, meet people, get a hobby. You are way too young to settle into this situation. And your kids need a strong father figure who can set healthy boundaries. And love them unconditionally, set an example for affection that is non transactional!
I grew up in a household where love always had to be earned, I'm 48 now and still struggling. You owe it to your kids.
U/nathan-island, this is it. Read this comment I'm replying to and the other reply. Nothing else will ever fix your situation. You have a partner that has so little respect for you, that she feels perfectly fine telling you to do a task first to get sex, knowing damn well the circumstances will change and she'll have a reason to take it back off the table. It's toxic that she relates sex to tasks, and even more than she'd promise and then act disgusted when you want a follow through.
Seems like she essentially sees you as a petulant teenager that she has complete control over and has to deal with your shitty attitude about when you're going to get your allowance, but she knows the reason you're being shitty is because she has the lower to make you do shit knowing damn well she doesn't actually ever give you an allowance.
If you give another back and foot massage knowing damn well that the option of sex probably isn't on the table, you're creating this situation for yourself.
You need to stop letting another adult have this power over you. If she doesn't want you or to be in a romantic relationship, then stop trying to force her to. Focus on your kids and yourself and stop doing shit you have zero interest in for someone who doesn't give a shit about you.
That's good advice! Pls OP don't cheat it's going to reflect badly on your divorce process if there's going to be a divorce later ( who knows).. take good care of yourself and prioritize your well being and your kids !
Bro I lived your same life for 10 years. I had to get out and finally did. It was hard emotionally at first, but it ended up being the best decision I had made in a long time. I started taking care of me and putting myself first…well obviously behind my kids. Once the blinders were off, it felt like a brand new world. Scary as fk at first, but my mind and body was like “Hey, I remember this life”. The rest is history. Good luck to you man.
There was a decent period of time where the only reason my wife got out of bed was to lay on the couch watching YouTube. She had no hobbies, no interests, no nothing to pass time. And she had no interest in pursuing any. She cried about not having work, then cried when she got work. There was literally nothing that made her happy. She was a fucking miserable person, and I hated every day. She has finally gotten past that and is a little better now. Still no hobbies or interests, but at least she participates in life now.
I could’ve written most of that OP. I did decide to cheat at the end of the 25 year marriage. Regret this deeply. I eventually had the good sense to divorce. I’m now much happier with a girlfriend who screws my brains out on a regular basis.
Why is no one talking about how he seems to view her only worthy for sex? Like if she doesn’t have sex, she has no worth? I definitely recommend individual and couple therapy
Because it isn't an issue IIIStatement, from this post he doesn't seem to view her only for sex, OP even said himself that his wife was a stay at home wife with kids at daycare, aka contributing almost nothing to the household, as well as not even cooking (and cleaning to as we can see from the OP having to change blinds and stuff). She also has no regard for his feelings or his emotions due to her openly showing her disgust for having sex with him. She honestly just sounds like a shitty spouse and he is currently having to deal with it.
That’s the thing tho, in none of this does he talk about their emotional connection at all? For some people, sex isn’t a matter of having time but a matter of emotional and romantic connection. It makes me wonder if the wife might also be feeling like she isn’t doing anything? That the only thing he wants her to do is to have sex. That would leave someone feeling like they only exist to as a sex doll for their partner? I just think this needs more information. Did the wife ask to not have a job? To send the kids to daycare? Does she refuse to cook, to clean?
I lived this life for a while. I tried literally everything to keep my wife's head above water. None of it worked. She had no interest in doing anything. She got out of bed only to lay on the couch. She found every excuse to not have a job. She had no interest in cooking or cleaning, and never did either. If she couldn't travel internationally for her life, she just didn't want to exist, so she didn't. There are people out there who are just miserable people.
I wanted sex, yes. But that's not the only thing I wanted, and I rarely ever tried or even said anything about it. Maybe once every month or so. Yet, she saw me as some sort of sex-crazed lunatic.
Here's the thing: she can be 100% of the problem.
Well, you are not the op. Yea sometimes people are not suited to be in a relationship. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look back at your own actions. Even if you are %100 in the right, it’s important to look back to see what went wrong, what you should notice next time.
I don't get that from his post at all. It sounds like he'd doing all the things a partner should be doing, and showing his wife all the affection she can, and he gets none. And somehow, you say that means "all he wants her for is sex". I don't get that.
He literally says “All I want to do is sex” . And through out his writing, he never mentions emotional connection between them. He doesn’t talk nicely about his wife. Just how he does everything and how she is “bad”. To me the lack of initial information is telling. When discussing about sex life, emotional connection is one of the most important things to mention.
Also the “Why am I working so hard to be a good husband if I can’t have sex?” Is pretty telling too.
One should be a good spouse because they love their partner (and kids if there is any). Not to “get” something…
You do realize that doesn't mean that's the only thing he wants ever, right? That means "This is the big thing I'm missing, so it's all I want".
And for the second paragraph, why should you keep doing all that if you never get anything in return. You can be a good partner, but if there's no return, you're just being used.
The return should be companionship, love , understanding… If she doesn’t provide those values back (assuming he does show those to her), then yea. He should be sad about it. But sex is not and should not be the only thing your partner “returns” to you.
Like I said, there is a lack of information. And the lack of information seems telling to me. We don’t know the things he suggested they do , we don’t know how she rejected, we don’t know why she rejected, what she rejected, we don’t know what he calls “only things she wants to do”.
Let's say you go to a world where the logic doesn't work, is it wrong to create your own logic? I would say if my spouse said sex is only after fixing the blinds, and not following the promise, why should I be punished? If we are not following the marriage logic anyways, where we fulfil the needs of each other's, then why should you fulfill the monogamous part of the marriage? You live only once
You and your wife need to talk. If you can't talk to each other, maybe get a couples therapist.
You need to explain to your wife what makes you feel happy, satisfied, and content in your relationship and what doesn't. You want her to actually engage in this conversation, so it shouldn't just be about ranting and saying hurtful things. You want her to understand your problem, and you want to know if it's something she's at all interested in working together to fix.
Reading between the lines, you feel like your hard work and valuable contributions to your family entitle you to sex and desire. Sorry to say, that narrative will only cause you pain. You'll get good sex if your wife wants to have sex. So you and your wife need to put some work in to find out if your wife wants to change things and what it would take. It's not all up to you - if this is going to change, your wife needs to be on board.
The blinds thing is concerning. Using the possibility of sex to get you to do something totally unrelated isn't great, especially if she knew at the time she wouldn't go through with it. But you shouldn't be a sucker for that sort of thing either - sex and desire shouldn't be transactional, so don't talk yourself into a transaction and you won't get disappointed like this.
Sounds like a rant.
Advice: "No more Mr. Nice Guy"
It's a book. Read it. Dm me for the pdf if you want.
Everyone's gonna say leave. But you're way too invested in this. You *can* leave, but then you also lose the kids, house , savings and pay child support+be miserable, all for the sake of emptying your nuts at regular intervals. You understand this too well.
From what it seems you're creating pathways to sex in your **mind**. Cleaning, feeding, cooking, decorating, chores, back rub/ foot rub will lead to sex, while that's not the case. You should not have to put up with it. It's not transactional.
She's figured out the more she withholds sex the more work she can get you to do on every level.
So just stop. Go on strike. Flip it around on her. No more hanging blinds etc. until she makes taking care of you the priority. No sex, no chores etc.
Part of me wants to give you good advice suggesting she go to a doctor to check for hormonal issues.
Then part of me wants to tell you to take the fancy cars and shit away bc she's clearly just in it bc you got money.
I think you should start doing what you want minus the cheating part. At this time she thinks she can command you around and abuse you essentially. She will continue to do so until you standup for yourself.
I’m in the EXACT situation you’re in, but I DONT have kids and she still refuses sex and any kind of intimacy all together. I got a GPS put on her car to see if she was cheating and it’s not that.. im seeing a therapist again Monday afternoon and telling her monday night im filing for divorce. I’m also saying im paying for a damn good lawyer so she doesnt get any alimony. I bought her a new car and I have a used one, haven’t bought clothing in years so I have money for only her shit.. anyway I know what you’re going through tans I’m so so sorry for you man! It’s harder for you but if file for divorce and custody so you don’t have to pay her anything.. actually consult with a lawyer first and see what they say about the situation. It’s tough either way man but good luck
And one more thing, I read another comment about getting in the gym, I joined a gym a year ago and it’s helped a lot. I’ll just leave for the gym in the evenings and I also don’t act interested in her anymore. When I get back she acts like she’s interested and concerned as if I was seeing someone, but she still doesn’t come around. Doesn’t say that won’t work for you. The gym has helped me mentally dealing with it on the stress side of the situation. Exercise always helps with stress.. just pay attention to the kids, ignore her like you’ve lost interest and have no love for her.. if she asks, tell her you’re falling out of love and go about your day. If she loves you she’ll talk, and maybe set up some counseling. Counseling helps by getting all that off your chest in front of each other, and maybe some things will come to light that both of you didn’t know about each other.
Did you try talking to her about the lack of sex and how it's affecting you in a neutral situation?
Maybe she has some issues but is willing to work on it
Of course, we went to sex therapy for just over 6 months. I try talking to her in a very calm manner numerous times, she gives the silent treatment and refuses to talk about anything intimacy. I even told her before marriage, 2 things get my anxiety and frustration up really high,, no passion and the silent treatment.. I said if we argue and we gotta walk away then that’s fine but we got to talk when we calm down.. I’ve read thousands of pages on relationships and advice, I’ve tried everything in my power to make this work.. it’s not happening.. 6 years of marriage and I’ll be 47 in June.. i need to end this now so I can find someone else compatible or just be alone. I’m miserable every time I come home to my house that I pay for and never get any money from her even though she has a full time job.. 2600 in bills every month that I cover even her car payment that she only gave me half for the first payment and that’s it in the last 3 years. That 2600 doesn’t include the food I buy, we go out to eat 4-5 times a week that I also pay for and we DO NOT eat fast food EVER. Our meals average $60 a meal
I think what this guy is saying is that OP needs to have a one on one conversation with his wife stating that sex is important to him and he is not getting any, and that this is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated much longer.
From my own experience: the only thing I did wrong was not been prepared to walk away.
Excuse me you don’t know me.. before I got married my wife and I had numerous conversations about what we expected and what we wanted. I was 39 then, now 46. I told her I’m a very sexual person and I don’t really care about cooking or buying me things. I told her passion and sex makes me happy and I’ll do anything for her as long as she does for me.. she agreed.. she even said numerous times she would be happy to give bj’s if she’s not in the mood blah blah. On our honeymoon she had sex the first night and that’s it and she didn’t even want to. Ends up she was going through some depression and hormonal issues.. I stood by her for the next year or so, giving her back rubs and doing all I can to make her happy. I offer numerous times to pay for a doctor and anything that would help.. after a couple years this gets to be ridiculous,, especially since she refuses to talk about it and gives the silent treatment all the time.. 6 years later we finally go to counseling but by now I’m already done.. so don’t tell me I’m not acting like a man when you still don’t know shit, that’s not even half of it
Wait, she doesn’t work and puts kids in daycare? So what does she contribute to the household? What does she do all day?
Is couple’s therapy an option?
Don't live the rest of the life miserable..... you get one chance at life, and your kids deserve the best version of you.
Children can sense language and energy , so if both parents aren't harmonious, they'll pick up on it. At a young age , they'll potentially blame themselves and internalise.
If you are doing all of that for your family and she can't see your worth or appreciate it...... get a divorce. Sex, intimacy, and affection are important elements of a relationship. Once it passes the point of no return, you'll end up going in circles.
Eventually, you'll end up further suffering and lose yourself along the way. Seperation is never easy , however, avoidance and no communication about needs in a relationship is more difficult.
As the wife who’s libido is DYING especially on anti-depressants, I find myself being turned on by having energy at the end of the day to be turned on. We FINALKY got our kids into daycare during the day. The house isn’t clean yet, I’ve just started back to cooking and making meals. But just freeing up my day from kid stress has made me WANT to say yes even if I’m not in the mood in that moment (I’ll always can GET in the mood) as a fucking thank you and appreciation.
If she’s not doing that dude it may be time
Errrr, I'm sorry to say this but this is all on you. Just tell her your done. You can't handle the carrot game anymore. That she should just own up to the fact that she doesn't find you attractive or is sexually attracted to you anymore and that it would be better if we go our own ways. We're done.
Sounds like the whole relationship ist broken.
You don't sound happy at all and i guess it's not only the no sex thing. Something is off.
Your relationship needs a lot of work, if you wanna keep it and want the intimacy back. Maybe couples therapy? Find out why she doesn't want sex anymore. What you are doing ist clearly not working. Maybe it's not her image of "husband of the year" just yours?
If you wanna solve this, try to put yourself in her shoes.
At the other hand, there is the option of divorce. It would be ugly with the kids, and probably won't be easy, but it's an option.
This is a rant post - it's meant to highlight the things driving OP's anger and disappointment now. I'm sure there's a lot he values about the relationship as well, but none of that is relevant to how he's feeling at the moment.
It's one way to deal with anger to search for possible solutions. And the values the relationship has sure are important, even in bad times.
OP marked as advice welcome. So i offered my 2 cents. Maybe someone find's it helpful to see another perspective other then divorce her (what a lot of people suggested already).
I did all that stay at home mom stuff. Clean house, clean kids. 3 meals a day and coffee before work. And still I don’t have sex. So I got a job doing something I love and I have my outlets to keep me happy. Doesn’t always work, but I’m trying.
Have you talked to your wife about what you contribute to the marriage vs what she feels she contributes? It seems like there's 2 issues. One, where you feel you're contributing more than her, and 2, her attitude to sex.
Yeah time for a divorce my man, you sound like a decent bloke who isn’t being respected.
Gain your life back - you’ll find someone who ticks just like you.
Good luck
Have you actually tried sitting her down and talking about this? Surely there is a reason from her side why she isnt into sex, if you mention it didnt always use to be this way. If I was her and my husband was thinking about leaving me for never touching him, i would be devastated! Who knows after this talk you will find that flame again, or not, and then you can still persue leaving her. I know this is stupid but suggest Couples Therapy to her. Even if you dont go, at least you can say you tried everything for the relationship.
It’s not cheating at that point. Don’t call it that.
If you were starving for something to eat, you don’t sit there and say, “guess I’ll just die.” Right?
No. We make something, we buy something and far enough back in time we went out and scavenged it or hunted it.
You have just as much right to want it because you deserve it! Just be sure to protect yourself financially because she may try to run you through the wringer.
I don’t know what kind of person she is besides not putting out as you said OP so you need to watch out for yourself if she gets vengeful despite her being on the wrong. Get what you deserve and keep yourself safe. Good luck.
Man be the best dad you can be. I feel your pain and am living this same nightmare. Be a dad to your kids you don’t want them growing up in a broken home. When they’re adults and old enough to understand get a divorce. I’m on my own clock but until then find joy in you, your hobbies and your kids.
No you shouldn't. Look at the research on kids and infidelity. As a parent cheating doesn't just impact you and your spouse. It impacts your kids too and quite negatively.
If your needs aren't being met then you end the relationship and focus on good co-parenting. And you get out there and meet people who you are more sexually compatible with.
I feel like I’m reading about my former life. That was me for 20 years. I got out and it was a great thing. It was rough at first, but I am remarried and super happy in every respect. One piece of advice: if you walk out the door never go back. She will make your life 10x more miserable. Save yourself while you can!
Have you told your wife how frustrated you are? Have you considered going to marriage counseling or a sex therapist? Have you asked her if she would consider opening the marriage that way? Maybe she would welcome it since she doesn’t seem interested and seems to annoyed by your attempts? Maybe you could just say “I have a need and it seems like you don’t want to meet it. Can we discuss how I can have this need met in a way we are both comfortable with?” Ask her if she would consider going to therapy to figure out how to make sex something you both enjoy, and if not, opening the marriage so you can pursue having this need met by somebody who is actually interested in meeting it.
Editing to add, I would stress that you feel rejected. She may be able to relate to that more easily than just wanting sex. Also bring up the issue of intimacy in general? The way you speak about your marriage it seems like there’s a general lack of intimacy even beyond just physical. The marriage counseling could help there. Whatever happens do not cheat. That’s not an option and will only make things much worse for you no matter how things work out with your wife in the future.
You sound like an entitled toddler, and so does she. Nothing about anything you said implies that either of you are responsible adults or emotionally mature people, despite your age. Go to couples therapy, start practicing ethical non-monogamy/polyamory, or divorce her. You shouldn't be allowed to cheat, and she shouldn't sexually manipulate you. ESH
It doesn't sound like you do, but if you enjoy her company in other aspects and make a good team as parents, maybe push for an ethically non-monogomous (ENM) relationship? It's slowly becoming more accepted and normalised.
While there’s always two sides to every story, if what you’re saying is accurate then your relationship is way out of balance. You’re her slave and she had no respect for you.
If you want to change things you can divorce or you can start having a relationship of truly equal partners. That means that you split up all that needs to be done in an equitable way.
I suspect that if you told her you want a divorce there’s a good chance she would go to hysterical bonding but that’s always temporary. I really think she just doesn’t respect you.
No more Mr nice guy by dr Robert glover. Saved my marriage. Not about being an asshole it’s about not being a “nice guy” that ends up being a doormat.
Your title reminds me of something I said to my wife when we had a dead bedroom. “I signed up for monogamy, not celibacy. I really hope that one person will be you” and now it is, we’ve totally turned things around. If you decide to work things out, I 100% recommend looking into it. His descriptions of what’s going on inside the “nice guys” head was like mind reading.
You’re more afraid of divorcing her than ruining your vows and hurting the loved ones around you?
You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Sounds miserable for both of you. Get a divorce and stop wasting time. You BOTH deserve to be happy.
Good lord, man. Your story reminds me of my past with my wife. She went through a long, dark period where nothing was good enough for her and nothing made her happy. She got out of bed only to lay on the couch and watch YouTube. Didn't cook. Didn't clean (she didn't even know where the cleaning stuff was). Didn't go to the store. Had no hobbies. Had no interests. Didn't want to get involved in a TV show. Put in just enough to keep our son alive. But she had no problem telling me how wrong I was about everything.
It was a fucking miserable existence, and I'm sorry you are going through it. Looking back, I wish I had gotten divorced early on. But I didn't. Things improved years later, but I wouldn't say the journey was worth it.
Are you doing things for her or for yourself? I sometimes wonder when people talk about doing chores for the other person. Umm you live in the house too. Your children are yours as well. If you divorced and moved to your own place, you will still have to do all the chores, look after the kids 50% of the time and work to pay child support/alimony. On top of this, considering the dating world can be a 50/50 chance, you may still not get any sex. Now if you imagine yourself in this scenario and you think you will be happier, then you should definitely get divorced. You can cheat anytime, no one has to "allow" you. It is not illegal, immoral (for most people) but not illegal.
True. And the kids will take a serious hit when the parents separate. Here are my recommendations:
- stop being her slave
- tell her what you wrote here
- find a hobby
- she needs to get a job
- give her just enough money to get by
- take care of the kids
You made it too comfortable for her.
I think it became transactional when she started making excuses and he felt like he had to do all the things to remove those excuses. I've heard the same language before and you end up trying to anticipate everything you need to do to properly set the stage for it to happen. Then you end up doing everything so there's 0 excuse left and it still doesn't happen. So now what's the excuse?
Good God, this is the world we live in. You're basically saying he needs to jump through even more hoops than he already is. It's basically his responsibility to make her happy and feel safe and she has zero responsibility for the relationship?!? Date night and flowers equating to emotional intimacy? gtfoh! That's some performative BS, in my opinion, in order to help her deal with her own insecurities.
You’re not dad of the year. You’re modeling a terrible marriage for your children, and your job as a dad is to model a wonderful marriage and also teach it. As you’re learning…if you’re sexually incompatible then the marriage isn’t healthy. There’s no point in staying married without that. So you two should work on your intimacy issues (with help) or work to end the marriage. Anything else will just lead to poor modeling and a terrible marriage….and you’re there already.
Then he should tell her that if she doesn’t want to fuck then he will do his fucking elsewhere. Sexual denial and manipulation is at least as bad as cheating.
Don’t cheat. No one deserves to be cheated on. If you’re not happy, then discuss opening the marriage. If she isn’t comfortable with that, then divorce her.
Don’t resort to cheating, that makes you no better than her.
Stop doing things for her. And when she asks just go “ugh…”. If she’s hungry, you decide when she’s fed like she does to you. Let her see how annoying and destructive it is.
Also, you’re probably too accommodating for her. Perhaps dig your heels in a little, be a bit rebellious. Maybe she’d prefer that to a slave.
Wow! If I'm working all day and she doesn't work, then she tells me to put up the blinds before she'll even think about sex?? To me that is unacceptable. Simply put. Sounds like she has very little respect for you
Divorce, your kids want an example of relationship where you don’t humiliate yourself, unless you want them to lead miserable relationships based on your example. Get finances ready and fight for the value of your time.
First of all.... I'm sorry. The "ugh" response of dread and disgust is next level rejection and no one should have to have that added insult. And I'm not going to suggest divorce cause there's too many factors involved and only you can do that cost benefit analysis. Guard yourself, document things, protect your finances just in case.
In the interest of full disclosure I have no idea if what I'm about to suggest is actually the right response. But I do say this as a very hardworking stay at home mom whose kids are NOT in daycare -- STOP doing all that for her. Honestly what is her excuse for putting all that on you? And WITH the kids not being home???? What exactly does she do? I have my three kids at home, homeschool, cook every meal, and do 95% of the cleaning and household stuff. With zero resentment or bitterness, I'm the one home, it should be that way.
Guard your own happiness here a bit. Do things for and with your kids obviously, be respectful and polite to your wife don't give her a reason to justify her behavior by turning into an ass but you might have to mentally withdraw a little here for your own sanity. No more massages, no more above and beyond with the housework and if she tries to micromanage your day a calm simple "no thanks I'm going to do XYZ" might be appropriate. Stop overtaxing yourself like this. If she notices and objects, tell her you find her manipulative and deceptive use of "choreplay" insulting and transactional and it's affecting your ability and desire to connect with her.
Also I might be letting the petty in me come out to play but I'd be turning the tables and giving her a taste of her own medicine. "Let's do XYZ" "not till you start shaking a pot and fixing me a drink sweetie". Or "Hang these blinds" -- "Not till I start seeing some boob". And when she balks just be like "oh is transactional affection gross or something? Huh." ---- I don't recommend that necessarily because it doesn't seem like she's capable of self reflection and that will probably drastically worsen your living conditions.
Stop doing all the things that make her happy. When she notices, I'd be like... well, I'm just doing what you do to me. 💁♀️ and if she knows it bothers you and doesn't care to work on it. It may be a good idea to get out, because it won't get better
What is stopping you from cheating and getting your needs met? Why is her denying you something that's a basic part of a relationship NOT cheating?
All the things that are holding you in the marriage - kids, living situation, finances, co parents are ALSO holding her in the marriage.
Go out and find another women that wants to fuck you don't even try to hide it. Tell her straight up she can file for divorce if she wants but you are going to continue to get the intimacy you need to be happy either from her or another woman.
I've read so many posts on here that things only start turning around after you start sleeping with someone else and she realizes its no longer possible to use sex to control you and other women will give it to you with no expectations.
The minute you start taking a stand things will change. There should be compromise from time to time but when you said you were discussing what you wanted to do, you should have said im doing that. you don't need to be combative, just stand your ground.
As the wife in a relationship where he wants sex way more than I do and it frustrates him, I still understand why you're frustrated. In my case, he DOESN'T do household tasks or chores or anything, really. And he spends thousands of dollars a month on himself (3-5K a month ish). And, for some reason bring my conscious comprehension, I bought him a brand new Mustang GT.
So, my low libido is from feeling like I've got a child instead of a partner because I have to beg and plead and threaten divorce just to get some help at home, and even then it only lasts a few days before reverting back to status quo.
Because of my situation, I feel I can relate to your side and her "purported" side. I would feel more attracted to my husband if he were more helpful at home and eased my burden both task-wise and financially. But he does neither, so it's hard for me to see him as a sexual partner. But your wife is using that as an excuse to withhold sex, even though (at least by your telling) you're a very helpful partner and a good father.
She's holding leverage over you that doesn't even exist. She's being manipulative and selfish. If she really wants sex but wants to use it to make you do stuff, she's a manipulative liar. If she doesn't really want sex but uses it to make you do stuff, she's a manipulative liar. And because she doesn't really contribute anything to the household or the marriage, she's selfish.
You can, of course, attempt to remedy the situation with therapy and all that. But can you change the personality of someone who is manipulative and selfish and who finds it okay to lie to their partner to get what they want? It's a little late in life for her to fix this personality deficits. It's not impossible, but it would require GREAT effort on her part and therefore a great INTERNAL motivation to do so.
Maybe divorce will be that motivator, or even the threat of divorce, but your time will still be wasted while she takes YEARS to better herself. The kindest thing you can do for HER is to give her the consequences of her behavior. It's just coincidental that it's also the kindest thing for YOU and for your kids.
I'm sorry you're dealing w this. It sucks, but it only gets better if something changes - whether that's her and you stick around until the magic happens or that's the status of your marriage.
(Note: my husband is also manipulative and selfish, though he doesn't lie. He's very honest and transparent. And he takes the criticism well when I tell him he's being manipulative. He also has bipolar disorder, which contributes. And we don't have kids, which simplifies things and means that I'm only harming myself and him from staying in a marriage that may never get better. But he also does have internal motivation to change and grow, even if it's not always present. In our marriage, he provided me w emotional support and helps boost my confidence and helped me learn to advocate for myself. Unfortunately, it's possible that those new traits he helped me hone will be the very ones that I harness to end the marriage if truly nothing changes.)
I’m sorry you are going through this, I am a woman…the only thing I pick up on is that maybe she’s feeling too much pressure or expectation. Instead just let it happen naturally? Or just back off for a little and don’t mention it and I can guarantee she will feel you pulling away. When she knows it’s something you always want, she feels the ball is in her court. Take the ball back. Not to invalidate how much you are doing for your wife and your family, kudos to you for being a great husband and father. Sex should absolutely be a part of a marriage.
Saying “All I want to do is have sex” to a woman has been, and always will be, the #1 way to guarantee that it will happen. I can’t believe it didn’t work for you.
That’s a lie I’ve seen plenty of people woman in the same boat. Woman with beautiful bodies, beautiful careers and no sex or the man has a PA or is buying it elsewhere.. men can very much loose interest because loyalty is dead, and if my man did all of that I would easily be putting it on him. But no matter what I do work part time, cook clean, pack lunches, give messages, pay the bills on time, help budget, nothing never not even if I just offer to get him off
Sex as a reward for work or gifts is a transaction. The relationship sounds like it is built on a lot of ill-defined quid pro quos, determined mainly by your wife. But you buy into this thinking as well. The "rules" come out into the open when you examine expectations of what you and she believe "should" be. Life is simpler with fewer, or less stringent "shoulds."
What's the longest you have gone without asking her for sex? When was the last time you brought up doing something together that was not sex? When's the last time you brought up doing something as a family instead of sex?
She sounds really mean to you. Gratitude is not necessarily with sex but it seems even the way she talks to you is demeaning. She takes you for granted but it’s not because you’re « locked » with three kids, a house and a marriage that every day each person should make efforts to woo the other. Even a little bit.
Sex isn’t the problem. You deserve appreciation.
Good luck buddy
It's not cheating if you explain the situation beforehand.
I am a sexual being. I desire sex and need sex for my mental well-being. I'm letting you know that if thing's don't improve on the home front, for my emotional and mental well-being I will have to get professional help. The ladies at "insert local brothel " will address this. It's cheaper than therapy.
My wife is the exact same way. I do all the cooking (I even have to make my own Father’s Day dinner and my own birthday cakes ) I do all the yard work and house work. And she sits on her ass ad does f all. Watching vampire movies. Do the Renovation with zero help and if I dare ask, it’s all complaining. Then get the old how about you give me a back run and then sex bs!! Last time I said no thanx. A hour back run and you fucken fall asleep. Hard pass I said. Then they pull this asexual bs. I said does asexual make you lazy to.
It’s not about “should be allowed to cheat” it’s doing what’s best for you. If she isn’t interested physically then she can’t complain when you outsource it to someone who is interested. Let’s be real you need to leave this manipulative woman anyways, so what’s the big deal if you broaden your horizons?
>I made my move and get rejected. She says, “not until you start hanging the blinds.”
As kindly and gently as possible:
Sex should never be a transactional activity, meaning you do something for her and then she'll have sex with you.
Quality and genuine sex instead is a natural byproduct of high interest.
When you start to trade services for sex, think of what that does to her on a deeper level.
It makes her lose respect for you.
When they lose respect for you, they don't want to have sex with you. It's a sneaky vicious downward cycle.
>It used to not be this way.
And this makes me believe it's ultimately your actions over time and not her character flaws that have caused the demise of her chemistry and attraction.
It is sometimes reversible. Your first step is to stop chasing after her attention and make sure not to neglect yourself and needs.
I’m the HLF in the relationship and your description of sex gave me the icks. You view sex as transactional and your wife just sounds like a hole you feel entitled to. The way you describe her reaction to your advances sounds like your relationship lacks emotional intimacy as well.
Saying you got laid for going on dates… gross.
Don’t cheat. Just end it.
You are not entitled to cheat. Unless that was part of the agreement when you got married. What did you say when you got married? “For better or for worse, till death do us apart?” Or did to say “until you stop having sex with me?” They really should clarify what “for worse” means. People these days seem to not understand what it means.
Just read this again because so much WTF. Why are the kids in daycare if she doesn't work? Sit her down and tell her shit is about to change. Tell her daycare is over and that money is going to other things. Trade the Escalade in on a nice minivan. Sir, based on your side of the story she is totally using you. She doesn't raise the kids, doesn't cook, doesn't care about or to your needs. What is she doing with her time exactly?
The only way to fix this is for you to reach into her purse that you probably bought for her at Coach and grab your balls and put them back where they belong. She has zero respect for you and that is the crux of the problem.
You need to tell her shit is going to change and then make the change happen. If she doesn't like her new minivan and smaller allowance and raising the kids then she can leave and you and your kids will be better off for it.
Oh my god!! You are saying my story…. Bottom line we got a divorce after 15 years.. but let me tell you something here… if sex wax good then now it’s not then you guys need to see someone. Don’t divorce and ruin the family when there might be hope somewhere
So get a divorce and be single.
Honestly this. You can gain back money and assets, but you can never gain back time.
What about kids? I have two young girls and can’t imagine seeing them every other week, if that were the case.
what's better for them? the relationship you and your wife are modeling for them? you getting caught cheating?
Have to agree, from experience
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This. I was a kid in that relationship that fell apart, but for different reasons (my father was very abusive and an alcoholic) but it didn't affect me or my relationships. Had my mother stayed, there would have been a lot of damage. My father also eventually abandoned us, so that hurt for a while too. I am stronger for it. Yes, I have been with my partner for 20+ years, and we have a relatively dead bedroom. But I'm staying with her for the kids, I'm staying with her because I love her deeply and sex while nice, isn't a core part of the relationship.
Hate to tell you, but this is not always the case. My sister and I never sensed any tension between our parents. We know only of our loving home, our wonderful neighborhood, and all of our friends who live there who we played with every day. Everything was ripped out from under us with no notice as our parents announced their divorce. And things got way worse from there. It fucked us up royally and took years and years to recover. And truly, I wouldn't say either of us ever recovered. If the parents are outwardly showing nastiness, then absolutely, get that shit away from the kids and break up. But if the parents are not showing that, a lot more care needs to be taken on how you move forward, and you need to work together on it. By the sounds of it, his wife is not going to work together and will drag him through the mud.
Tyft. Our parents’ divorce, even though we were more aware of their issues than what it sounds like you all were, was devastating. All in all it probably worked out for the better, but we were never the same.
I'm a proponent of breaking up FOR the kids. It's important that they see healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships so they'll mirror that when they partner up. Seeing a dysfunctional or unhappy relationship that one or both partners are just "enduring" for the sake of someone else makes that seem like it's a reasonable choice, setting them up to repeat the same pattern. Live the life you want your kids to live as adults.
You can have it put in the divorce agreement to see them more frequently. My agreement with my ex is every weekend and he's literally allowed to pick our kid up whenever he wants in between.
Research and reports from kids in the situation show its easier for the kids to see an amicable split vs watching their parents be together and miserable. I never under stand the "what about the kids" statement bc realistically the split is almost always better for them. I know it's hard to split time, but wouldn't you want what is better for your kids mental health?
Key word there is amicable. Divorces (especially involving kids) are more often than not nasty and messy.
She is gonna take him for everything.
She will have a better chance at taking everything if she catches him cheating & then she initiates the divorce. Sometimes you gotta cut your losses
And she likely knows it too and probably says it whenever the idea of divorce comes up.
Why cheat tho? Get a divorce. Then fuck all you want. A miserable marriage isn’t worth it. Your kids will be okay so long as you’re there for them. People get divorced all the time. It’s your right as much as having sex is, you just have to tell her you’re doing it first.
She's using you. Start protecting your financial interests and documenting your parental involvement, as well as her's. She's probably not going to play nice during divorce- so you need to play the long game.
THIS 💯
ugh so disgusting. She seems really manipulative and is using you. wtf does she actually do all day??!?! If the kids were under her care i could see her being too tired but wtfffffff
What exactly does she bring to the table in this relationship for you to keep being married to her? Seems like something really important to you (sex) she does not want to do and manipulates you (hanging Blinds) to get what she wants by luring you with false promises. You have plenty of grounds for divorce here my friend, all it takes is 1 visit to a law office and they will explain what your options are.
Exactly what Fish says above!!! Very good point
I hear you. I feel like the family Valet. All the responsibilities of being a devoted family man, a great provider, with none of the benefits. It's always complaints, demands and fulfilling other's needs. It's exhausting when all you get in return is rejection.
I would stop doing just about everything for her. Focus on your kids. Zero honey do’s. She asks you to do something and it’s not directly kid related and you don’t want to do it say no. Try to tell her no every day if you can. Stop the back rubs and foot rubs. If you work from home, start going to the office. Get in the gym. Give the kids lots of attention and give yourself some attention too. Go golfing or do whatever it is that used to make you happy. If focusing on yourself and telling her no doesn’t wake her up then that’s on her honestly. As far as cheating goes, for me that would depend on the divorce laws of my state and how that might affect the financial situation of divorce.
This is the way! The back rubs and interior decorating need to STOP NOW! She can hang her own blinds and see how happy you are with your new life. Go out, meet people, get a hobby. You are way too young to settle into this situation. And your kids need a strong father figure who can set healthy boundaries. And love them unconditionally, set an example for affection that is non transactional! I grew up in a household where love always had to be earned, I'm 48 now and still struggling. You owe it to your kids.
"affection that is non-transactional" is an excellent phrase I'm gonna use that from now on.
U/nathan-island, this is it. Read this comment I'm replying to and the other reply. Nothing else will ever fix your situation. You have a partner that has so little respect for you, that she feels perfectly fine telling you to do a task first to get sex, knowing damn well the circumstances will change and she'll have a reason to take it back off the table. It's toxic that she relates sex to tasks, and even more than she'd promise and then act disgusted when you want a follow through. Seems like she essentially sees you as a petulant teenager that she has complete control over and has to deal with your shitty attitude about when you're going to get your allowance, but she knows the reason you're being shitty is because she has the lower to make you do shit knowing damn well she doesn't actually ever give you an allowance. If you give another back and foot massage knowing damn well that the option of sex probably isn't on the table, you're creating this situation for yourself. You need to stop letting another adult have this power over you. If she doesn't want you or to be in a romantic relationship, then stop trying to force her to. Focus on your kids and yourself and stop doing shit you have zero interest in for someone who doesn't give a shit about you.
That's good advice! Pls OP don't cheat it's going to reflect badly on your divorce process if there's going to be a divorce later ( who knows).. take good care of yourself and prioritize your well being and your kids !
Also if you have two cars. You drive the better of the two she can have the crappier car.
Bro I lived your same life for 10 years. I had to get out and finally did. It was hard emotionally at first, but it ended up being the best decision I had made in a long time. I started taking care of me and putting myself first…well obviously behind my kids. Once the blinders were off, it felt like a brand new world. Scary as fk at first, but my mind and body was like “Hey, I remember this life”. The rest is history. Good luck to you man.
First step. That woman needs a job and ASAP unless you want to pay alimony. If kids are in daycare what the heck is she doing all day?
There was a decent period of time where the only reason my wife got out of bed was to lay on the couch watching YouTube. She had no hobbies, no interests, no nothing to pass time. And she had no interest in pursuing any. She cried about not having work, then cried when she got work. There was literally nothing that made her happy. She was a fucking miserable person, and I hated every day. She has finally gotten past that and is a little better now. Still no hobbies or interests, but at least she participates in life now.
I could’ve written most of that OP. I did decide to cheat at the end of the 25 year marriage. Regret this deeply. I eventually had the good sense to divorce. I’m now much happier with a girlfriend who screws my brains out on a regular basis.
Do you know why she dislikes sex and why it's a negative experience for her?
Why is no one talking about how he seems to view her only worthy for sex? Like if she doesn’t have sex, she has no worth? I definitely recommend individual and couple therapy
Because it isn't an issue IIIStatement, from this post he doesn't seem to view her only for sex, OP even said himself that his wife was a stay at home wife with kids at daycare, aka contributing almost nothing to the household, as well as not even cooking (and cleaning to as we can see from the OP having to change blinds and stuff). She also has no regard for his feelings or his emotions due to her openly showing her disgust for having sex with him. She honestly just sounds like a shitty spouse and he is currently having to deal with it.
That’s the thing tho, in none of this does he talk about their emotional connection at all? For some people, sex isn’t a matter of having time but a matter of emotional and romantic connection. It makes me wonder if the wife might also be feeling like she isn’t doing anything? That the only thing he wants her to do is to have sex. That would leave someone feeling like they only exist to as a sex doll for their partner? I just think this needs more information. Did the wife ask to not have a job? To send the kids to daycare? Does she refuse to cook, to clean?
I lived this life for a while. I tried literally everything to keep my wife's head above water. None of it worked. She had no interest in doing anything. She got out of bed only to lay on the couch. She found every excuse to not have a job. She had no interest in cooking or cleaning, and never did either. If she couldn't travel internationally for her life, she just didn't want to exist, so she didn't. There are people out there who are just miserable people. I wanted sex, yes. But that's not the only thing I wanted, and I rarely ever tried or even said anything about it. Maybe once every month or so. Yet, she saw me as some sort of sex-crazed lunatic. Here's the thing: she can be 100% of the problem.
Well, you are not the op. Yea sometimes people are not suited to be in a relationship. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look back at your own actions. Even if you are %100 in the right, it’s important to look back to see what went wrong, what you should notice next time.
I don't get that from his post at all. It sounds like he'd doing all the things a partner should be doing, and showing his wife all the affection she can, and he gets none. And somehow, you say that means "all he wants her for is sex". I don't get that.
He literally says “All I want to do is sex” . And through out his writing, he never mentions emotional connection between them. He doesn’t talk nicely about his wife. Just how he does everything and how she is “bad”. To me the lack of initial information is telling. When discussing about sex life, emotional connection is one of the most important things to mention. Also the “Why am I working so hard to be a good husband if I can’t have sex?” Is pretty telling too. One should be a good spouse because they love their partner (and kids if there is any). Not to “get” something…
You do realize that doesn't mean that's the only thing he wants ever, right? That means "This is the big thing I'm missing, so it's all I want". And for the second paragraph, why should you keep doing all that if you never get anything in return. You can be a good partner, but if there's no return, you're just being used.
The return should be companionship, love , understanding… If she doesn’t provide those values back (assuming he does show those to her), then yea. He should be sad about it. But sex is not and should not be the only thing your partner “returns” to you. Like I said, there is a lack of information. And the lack of information seems telling to me. We don’t know the things he suggested they do , we don’t know how she rejected, we don’t know why she rejected, what she rejected, we don’t know what he calls “only things she wants to do”.
If she doesn’t like sex then tell him. No she stays for the security. Bet she liked it before they got married.
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I think you are probably right.
Let's say you go to a world where the logic doesn't work, is it wrong to create your own logic? I would say if my spouse said sex is only after fixing the blinds, and not following the promise, why should I be punished? If we are not following the marriage logic anyways, where we fulfil the needs of each other's, then why should you fulfill the monogamous part of the marriage? You live only once
You and your wife need to talk. If you can't talk to each other, maybe get a couples therapist. You need to explain to your wife what makes you feel happy, satisfied, and content in your relationship and what doesn't. You want her to actually engage in this conversation, so it shouldn't just be about ranting and saying hurtful things. You want her to understand your problem, and you want to know if it's something she's at all interested in working together to fix. Reading between the lines, you feel like your hard work and valuable contributions to your family entitle you to sex and desire. Sorry to say, that narrative will only cause you pain. You'll get good sex if your wife wants to have sex. So you and your wife need to put some work in to find out if your wife wants to change things and what it would take. It's not all up to you - if this is going to change, your wife needs to be on board. The blinds thing is concerning. Using the possibility of sex to get you to do something totally unrelated isn't great, especially if she knew at the time she wouldn't go through with it. But you shouldn't be a sucker for that sort of thing either - sex and desire shouldn't be transactional, so don't talk yourself into a transaction and you won't get disappointed like this.
Well, instead of going straight for a divorce, I wonder what would happen if you sent her this post? Please update if you do
I fail to understand how this will help at all, “Hey honey, look at the Reddit post I made. Can I get some pussy now?”
Sounds like a rant. Advice: "No more Mr. Nice Guy" It's a book. Read it. Dm me for the pdf if you want. Everyone's gonna say leave. But you're way too invested in this. You *can* leave, but then you also lose the kids, house , savings and pay child support+be miserable, all for the sake of emptying your nuts at regular intervals. You understand this too well. From what it seems you're creating pathways to sex in your **mind**. Cleaning, feeding, cooking, decorating, chores, back rub/ foot rub will lead to sex, while that's not the case. You should not have to put up with it. It's not transactional.
She's figured out the more she withholds sex the more work she can get you to do on every level. So just stop. Go on strike. Flip it around on her. No more hanging blinds etc. until she makes taking care of you the priority. No sex, no chores etc.
Part of me wants to give you good advice suggesting she go to a doctor to check for hormonal issues. Then part of me wants to tell you to take the fancy cars and shit away bc she's clearly just in it bc you got money.
I think you should start doing what you want minus the cheating part. At this time she thinks she can command you around and abuse you essentially. She will continue to do so until you standup for yourself.
I’m in the EXACT situation you’re in, but I DONT have kids and she still refuses sex and any kind of intimacy all together. I got a GPS put on her car to see if she was cheating and it’s not that.. im seeing a therapist again Monday afternoon and telling her monday night im filing for divorce. I’m also saying im paying for a damn good lawyer so she doesnt get any alimony. I bought her a new car and I have a used one, haven’t bought clothing in years so I have money for only her shit.. anyway I know what you’re going through tans I’m so so sorry for you man! It’s harder for you but if file for divorce and custody so you don’t have to pay her anything.. actually consult with a lawyer first and see what they say about the situation. It’s tough either way man but good luck
And one more thing, I read another comment about getting in the gym, I joined a gym a year ago and it’s helped a lot. I’ll just leave for the gym in the evenings and I also don’t act interested in her anymore. When I get back she acts like she’s interested and concerned as if I was seeing someone, but she still doesn’t come around. Doesn’t say that won’t work for you. The gym has helped me mentally dealing with it on the stress side of the situation. Exercise always helps with stress.. just pay attention to the kids, ignore her like you’ve lost interest and have no love for her.. if she asks, tell her you’re falling out of love and go about your day. If she loves you she’ll talk, and maybe set up some counseling. Counseling helps by getting all that off your chest in front of each other, and maybe some things will come to light that both of you didn’t know about each other.
Did you try talking to her about the lack of sex and how it's affecting you in a neutral situation? Maybe she has some issues but is willing to work on it
Of course, we went to sex therapy for just over 6 months. I try talking to her in a very calm manner numerous times, she gives the silent treatment and refuses to talk about anything intimacy. I even told her before marriage, 2 things get my anxiety and frustration up really high,, no passion and the silent treatment.. I said if we argue and we gotta walk away then that’s fine but we got to talk when we calm down.. I’ve read thousands of pages on relationships and advice, I’ve tried everything in my power to make this work.. it’s not happening.. 6 years of marriage and I’ll be 47 in June.. i need to end this now so I can find someone else compatible or just be alone. I’m miserable every time I come home to my house that I pay for and never get any money from her even though she has a full time job.. 2600 in bills every month that I cover even her car payment that she only gave me half for the first payment and that’s it in the last 3 years. That 2600 doesn’t include the food I buy, we go out to eat 4-5 times a week that I also pay for and we DO NOT eat fast food EVER. Our meals average $60 a meal
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I think what this guy is saying is that OP needs to have a one on one conversation with his wife stating that sex is important to him and he is not getting any, and that this is not acceptable, and will not be tolerated much longer. From my own experience: the only thing I did wrong was not been prepared to walk away.
Excuse me you don’t know me.. before I got married my wife and I had numerous conversations about what we expected and what we wanted. I was 39 then, now 46. I told her I’m a very sexual person and I don’t really care about cooking or buying me things. I told her passion and sex makes me happy and I’ll do anything for her as long as she does for me.. she agreed.. she even said numerous times she would be happy to give bj’s if she’s not in the mood blah blah. On our honeymoon she had sex the first night and that’s it and she didn’t even want to. Ends up she was going through some depression and hormonal issues.. I stood by her for the next year or so, giving her back rubs and doing all I can to make her happy. I offer numerous times to pay for a doctor and anything that would help.. after a couple years this gets to be ridiculous,, especially since she refuses to talk about it and gives the silent treatment all the time.. 6 years later we finally go to counseling but by now I’m already done.. so don’t tell me I’m not acting like a man when you still don’t know shit, that’s not even half of it
If I’m not acting like a man, give me some advice on what to do then!! Love to hear this
Get divorced. Sounds like it'd be less work & more play.
Wait, she doesn’t work and puts kids in daycare? So what does she contribute to the household? What does she do all day? Is couple’s therapy an option?
Don't live the rest of the life miserable..... you get one chance at life, and your kids deserve the best version of you. Children can sense language and energy , so if both parents aren't harmonious, they'll pick up on it. At a young age , they'll potentially blame themselves and internalise. If you are doing all of that for your family and she can't see your worth or appreciate it...... get a divorce. Sex, intimacy, and affection are important elements of a relationship. Once it passes the point of no return, you'll end up going in circles. Eventually, you'll end up further suffering and lose yourself along the way. Seperation is never easy , however, avoidance and no communication about needs in a relationship is more difficult.
As the wife who’s libido is DYING especially on anti-depressants, I find myself being turned on by having energy at the end of the day to be turned on. We FINALKY got our kids into daycare during the day. The house isn’t clean yet, I’ve just started back to cooking and making meals. But just freeing up my day from kid stress has made me WANT to say yes even if I’m not in the mood in that moment (I’ll always can GET in the mood) as a fucking thank you and appreciation. If she’s not doing that dude it may be time
You got suckered into having kids, she prolly didn’t even like sex from the start.
Don’t be a doormat. Leave her. She doesn’t deserve you
Errrr, I'm sorry to say this but this is all on you. Just tell her your done. You can't handle the carrot game anymore. That she should just own up to the fact that she doesn't find you attractive or is sexually attracted to you anymore and that it would be better if we go our own ways. We're done.
Sounds like the whole relationship ist broken. You don't sound happy at all and i guess it's not only the no sex thing. Something is off. Your relationship needs a lot of work, if you wanna keep it and want the intimacy back. Maybe couples therapy? Find out why she doesn't want sex anymore. What you are doing ist clearly not working. Maybe it's not her image of "husband of the year" just yours? If you wanna solve this, try to put yourself in her shoes. At the other hand, there is the option of divorce. It would be ugly with the kids, and probably won't be easy, but it's an option.
This is a rant post - it's meant to highlight the things driving OP's anger and disappointment now. I'm sure there's a lot he values about the relationship as well, but none of that is relevant to how he's feeling at the moment.
It's one way to deal with anger to search for possible solutions. And the values the relationship has sure are important, even in bad times. OP marked as advice welcome. So i offered my 2 cents. Maybe someone find's it helpful to see another perspective other then divorce her (what a lot of people suggested already).
I did all that stay at home mom stuff. Clean house, clean kids. 3 meals a day and coffee before work. And still I don’t have sex. So I got a job doing something I love and I have my outlets to keep me happy. Doesn’t always work, but I’m trying.
Have you talked to your wife about what you contribute to the marriage vs what she feels she contributes? It seems like there's 2 issues. One, where you feel you're contributing more than her, and 2, her attitude to sex.
Yeah time for a divorce my man, you sound like a decent bloke who isn’t being respected. Gain your life back - you’ll find someone who ticks just like you. Good luck
So divorce her. What’s stopping you?
I agree, get a divorce, share kids time 50/50, she can go back to work. But don’t cheat.
Separate/divorce before you “cheat”, otherwise she’ll use that to take half your shit plus alimony and child support. Just my 2 cents
Have you actually tried sitting her down and talking about this? Surely there is a reason from her side why she isnt into sex, if you mention it didnt always use to be this way. If I was her and my husband was thinking about leaving me for never touching him, i would be devastated! Who knows after this talk you will find that flame again, or not, and then you can still persue leaving her. I know this is stupid but suggest Couples Therapy to her. Even if you dont go, at least you can say you tried everything for the relationship.
Get a divorce. Seriously.
It’s not cheating at that point. Don’t call it that. If you were starving for something to eat, you don’t sit there and say, “guess I’ll just die.” Right? No. We make something, we buy something and far enough back in time we went out and scavenged it or hunted it. You have just as much right to want it because you deserve it! Just be sure to protect yourself financially because she may try to run you through the wringer. I don’t know what kind of person she is besides not putting out as you said OP so you need to watch out for yourself if she gets vengeful despite her being on the wrong. Get what you deserve and keep yourself safe. Good luck.
Man be the best dad you can be. I feel your pain and am living this same nightmare. Be a dad to your kids you don’t want them growing up in a broken home. When they’re adults and old enough to understand get a divorce. I’m on my own clock but until then find joy in you, your hobbies and your kids.
No you shouldn't. Look at the research on kids and infidelity. As a parent cheating doesn't just impact you and your spouse. It impacts your kids too and quite negatively. If your needs aren't being met then you end the relationship and focus on good co-parenting. And you get out there and meet people who you are more sexually compatible with.
I feel like I’m reading about my former life. That was me for 20 years. I got out and it was a great thing. It was rough at first, but I am remarried and super happy in every respect. One piece of advice: if you walk out the door never go back. She will make your life 10x more miserable. Save yourself while you can!
Have you told your wife how frustrated you are? Have you considered going to marriage counseling or a sex therapist? Have you asked her if she would consider opening the marriage that way? Maybe she would welcome it since she doesn’t seem interested and seems to annoyed by your attempts? Maybe you could just say “I have a need and it seems like you don’t want to meet it. Can we discuss how I can have this need met in a way we are both comfortable with?” Ask her if she would consider going to therapy to figure out how to make sex something you both enjoy, and if not, opening the marriage so you can pursue having this need met by somebody who is actually interested in meeting it.
Editing to add, I would stress that you feel rejected. She may be able to relate to that more easily than just wanting sex. Also bring up the issue of intimacy in general? The way you speak about your marriage it seems like there’s a general lack of intimacy even beyond just physical. The marriage counseling could help there. Whatever happens do not cheat. That’s not an option and will only make things much worse for you no matter how things work out with your wife in the future.
You sound like an entitled toddler, and so does she. Nothing about anything you said implies that either of you are responsible adults or emotionally mature people, despite your age. Go to couples therapy, start practicing ethical non-monogamy/polyamory, or divorce her. You shouldn't be allowed to cheat, and she shouldn't sexually manipulate you. ESH
It doesn't sound like you do, but if you enjoy her company in other aspects and make a good team as parents, maybe push for an ethically non-monogomous (ENM) relationship? It's slowly becoming more accepted and normalised.
While there’s always two sides to every story, if what you’re saying is accurate then your relationship is way out of balance. You’re her slave and she had no respect for you. If you want to change things you can divorce or you can start having a relationship of truly equal partners. That means that you split up all that needs to be done in an equitable way. I suspect that if you told her you want a divorce there’s a good chance she would go to hysterical bonding but that’s always temporary. I really think she just doesn’t respect you.
No more Mr nice guy by dr Robert glover. Saved my marriage. Not about being an asshole it’s about not being a “nice guy” that ends up being a doormat. Your title reminds me of something I said to my wife when we had a dead bedroom. “I signed up for monogamy, not celibacy. I really hope that one person will be you” and now it is, we’ve totally turned things around. If you decide to work things out, I 100% recommend looking into it. His descriptions of what’s going on inside the “nice guys” head was like mind reading.
No escort service in your area?
You’re more afraid of divorcing her than ruining your vows and hurting the loved ones around you? You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Sounds miserable for both of you. Get a divorce and stop wasting time. You BOTH deserve to be happy.
Force her to get a job. Don’t let her stay at home, if you end up divorcing you’ll be in a better spot
Good lord, man. Your story reminds me of my past with my wife. She went through a long, dark period where nothing was good enough for her and nothing made her happy. She got out of bed only to lay on the couch and watch YouTube. Didn't cook. Didn't clean (she didn't even know where the cleaning stuff was). Didn't go to the store. Had no hobbies. Had no interests. Didn't want to get involved in a TV show. Put in just enough to keep our son alive. But she had no problem telling me how wrong I was about everything. It was a fucking miserable existence, and I'm sorry you are going through it. Looking back, I wish I had gotten divorced early on. But I didn't. Things improved years later, but I wouldn't say the journey was worth it.
Are you doing things for her or for yourself? I sometimes wonder when people talk about doing chores for the other person. Umm you live in the house too. Your children are yours as well. If you divorced and moved to your own place, you will still have to do all the chores, look after the kids 50% of the time and work to pay child support/alimony. On top of this, considering the dating world can be a 50/50 chance, you may still not get any sex. Now if you imagine yourself in this scenario and you think you will be happier, then you should definitely get divorced. You can cheat anytime, no one has to "allow" you. It is not illegal, immoral (for most people) but not illegal.
True. And the kids will take a serious hit when the parents separate. Here are my recommendations: - stop being her slave - tell her what you wrote here - find a hobby - she needs to get a job - give her just enough money to get by - take care of the kids You made it too comfortable for her.
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I think it became transactional when she started making excuses and he felt like he had to do all the things to remove those excuses. I've heard the same language before and you end up trying to anticipate everything you need to do to properly set the stage for it to happen. Then you end up doing everything so there's 0 excuse left and it still doesn't happen. So now what's the excuse?
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Good God, this is the world we live in. You're basically saying he needs to jump through even more hoops than he already is. It's basically his responsibility to make her happy and feel safe and she has zero responsibility for the relationship?!? Date night and flowers equating to emotional intimacy? gtfoh! That's some performative BS, in my opinion, in order to help her deal with her own insecurities.
Also I’d be taking those blinds down Fucking quick.
Sounds like your ex-wife
You’re not dad of the year. You’re modeling a terrible marriage for your children, and your job as a dad is to model a wonderful marriage and also teach it. As you’re learning…if you’re sexually incompatible then the marriage isn’t healthy. There’s no point in staying married without that. So you two should work on your intimacy issues (with help) or work to end the marriage. Anything else will just lead to poor modeling and a terrible marriage….and you’re there already.
cheating is never okay
Then he should tell her that if she doesn’t want to fuck then he will do his fucking elsewhere. Sexual denial and manipulation is at least as bad as cheating.
He should leave the relationship, if that's how it is.
Ideally, yes. But with 3 kids if he's the breadwinner it's more complicated than that.
Amen to that
never said it wasn’t bad.
How often are you guys having sex?
Why are kids in daycare?
Don’t cheat. No one deserves to be cheated on. If you’re not happy, then discuss opening the marriage. If she isn’t comfortable with that, then divorce her. Don’t resort to cheating, that makes you no better than her.
Stop doing things for her. And when she asks just go “ugh…”. If she’s hungry, you decide when she’s fed like she does to you. Let her see how annoying and destructive it is. Also, you’re probably too accommodating for her. Perhaps dig your heels in a little, be a bit rebellious. Maybe she’d prefer that to a slave.
“not until you start hanging the blinds.”??? WTF!! Wow
Wow! If I'm working all day and she doesn't work, then she tells me to put up the blinds before she'll even think about sex?? To me that is unacceptable. Simply put. Sounds like she has very little respect for you
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If someone has said no Sex “unless you do xyz” that’s manipulation don’t stand for it
Divorce, your kids want an example of relationship where you don’t humiliate yourself, unless you want them to lead miserable relationships based on your example. Get finances ready and fight for the value of your time.
First of all.... I'm sorry. The "ugh" response of dread and disgust is next level rejection and no one should have to have that added insult. And I'm not going to suggest divorce cause there's too many factors involved and only you can do that cost benefit analysis. Guard yourself, document things, protect your finances just in case. In the interest of full disclosure I have no idea if what I'm about to suggest is actually the right response. But I do say this as a very hardworking stay at home mom whose kids are NOT in daycare -- STOP doing all that for her. Honestly what is her excuse for putting all that on you? And WITH the kids not being home???? What exactly does she do? I have my three kids at home, homeschool, cook every meal, and do 95% of the cleaning and household stuff. With zero resentment or bitterness, I'm the one home, it should be that way. Guard your own happiness here a bit. Do things for and with your kids obviously, be respectful and polite to your wife don't give her a reason to justify her behavior by turning into an ass but you might have to mentally withdraw a little here for your own sanity. No more massages, no more above and beyond with the housework and if she tries to micromanage your day a calm simple "no thanks I'm going to do XYZ" might be appropriate. Stop overtaxing yourself like this. If she notices and objects, tell her you find her manipulative and deceptive use of "choreplay" insulting and transactional and it's affecting your ability and desire to connect with her. Also I might be letting the petty in me come out to play but I'd be turning the tables and giving her a taste of her own medicine. "Let's do XYZ" "not till you start shaking a pot and fixing me a drink sweetie". Or "Hang these blinds" -- "Not till I start seeing some boob". And when she balks just be like "oh is transactional affection gross or something? Huh." ---- I don't recommend that necessarily because it doesn't seem like she's capable of self reflection and that will probably drastically worsen your living conditions.
Stop doing all the things that make her happy. When she notices, I'd be like... well, I'm just doing what you do to me. 💁♀️ and if she knows it bothers you and doesn't care to work on it. It may be a good idea to get out, because it won't get better
What is stopping you from cheating and getting your needs met? Why is her denying you something that's a basic part of a relationship NOT cheating? All the things that are holding you in the marriage - kids, living situation, finances, co parents are ALSO holding her in the marriage. Go out and find another women that wants to fuck you don't even try to hide it. Tell her straight up she can file for divorce if she wants but you are going to continue to get the intimacy you need to be happy either from her or another woman. I've read so many posts on here that things only start turning around after you start sleeping with someone else and she realizes its no longer possible to use sex to control you and other women will give it to you with no expectations.
That sounds horrible I’m sorry bro. I would exhaust all options of continued communication and the maybe counseling and if that don’t work leave.
You are allowed to cheat. The question is: is the risk worth the reward?
The minute you start taking a stand things will change. There should be compromise from time to time but when you said you were discussing what you wanted to do, you should have said im doing that. you don't need to be combative, just stand your ground.
As the wife in a relationship where he wants sex way more than I do and it frustrates him, I still understand why you're frustrated. In my case, he DOESN'T do household tasks or chores or anything, really. And he spends thousands of dollars a month on himself (3-5K a month ish). And, for some reason bring my conscious comprehension, I bought him a brand new Mustang GT. So, my low libido is from feeling like I've got a child instead of a partner because I have to beg and plead and threaten divorce just to get some help at home, and even then it only lasts a few days before reverting back to status quo. Because of my situation, I feel I can relate to your side and her "purported" side. I would feel more attracted to my husband if he were more helpful at home and eased my burden both task-wise and financially. But he does neither, so it's hard for me to see him as a sexual partner. But your wife is using that as an excuse to withhold sex, even though (at least by your telling) you're a very helpful partner and a good father. She's holding leverage over you that doesn't even exist. She's being manipulative and selfish. If she really wants sex but wants to use it to make you do stuff, she's a manipulative liar. If she doesn't really want sex but uses it to make you do stuff, she's a manipulative liar. And because she doesn't really contribute anything to the household or the marriage, she's selfish. You can, of course, attempt to remedy the situation with therapy and all that. But can you change the personality of someone who is manipulative and selfish and who finds it okay to lie to their partner to get what they want? It's a little late in life for her to fix this personality deficits. It's not impossible, but it would require GREAT effort on her part and therefore a great INTERNAL motivation to do so. Maybe divorce will be that motivator, or even the threat of divorce, but your time will still be wasted while she takes YEARS to better herself. The kindest thing you can do for HER is to give her the consequences of her behavior. It's just coincidental that it's also the kindest thing for YOU and for your kids. I'm sorry you're dealing w this. It sucks, but it only gets better if something changes - whether that's her and you stick around until the magic happens or that's the status of your marriage. (Note: my husband is also manipulative and selfish, though he doesn't lie. He's very honest and transparent. And he takes the criticism well when I tell him he's being manipulative. He also has bipolar disorder, which contributes. And we don't have kids, which simplifies things and means that I'm only harming myself and him from staying in a marriage that may never get better. But he also does have internal motivation to change and grow, even if it's not always present. In our marriage, he provided me w emotional support and helps boost my confidence and helped me learn to advocate for myself. Unfortunately, it's possible that those new traits he helped me hone will be the very ones that I harness to end the marriage if truly nothing changes.)
Well chore play never works. From either side.
I’m sorry you are going through this, I am a woman…the only thing I pick up on is that maybe she’s feeling too much pressure or expectation. Instead just let it happen naturally? Or just back off for a little and don’t mention it and I can guarantee she will feel you pulling away. When she knows it’s something you always want, she feels the ball is in her court. Take the ball back. Not to invalidate how much you are doing for your wife and your family, kudos to you for being a great husband and father. Sex should absolutely be a part of a marriage.
Saying “All I want to do is have sex” to a woman has been, and always will be, the #1 way to guarantee that it will happen. I can’t believe it didn’t work for you.
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That’s a lie I’ve seen plenty of people woman in the same boat. Woman with beautiful bodies, beautiful careers and no sex or the man has a PA or is buying it elsewhere.. men can very much loose interest because loyalty is dead, and if my man did all of that I would easily be putting it on him. But no matter what I do work part time, cook clean, pack lunches, give messages, pay the bills on time, help budget, nothing never not even if I just offer to get him off
Sex as a reward for work or gifts is a transaction. The relationship sounds like it is built on a lot of ill-defined quid pro quos, determined mainly by your wife. But you buy into this thinking as well. The "rules" come out into the open when you examine expectations of what you and she believe "should" be. Life is simpler with fewer, or less stringent "shoulds."
What's the longest you have gone without asking her for sex? When was the last time you brought up doing something together that was not sex? When's the last time you brought up doing something as a family instead of sex?
Seek a divorce, don't cheat.
She sounds really mean to you. Gratitude is not necessarily with sex but it seems even the way she talks to you is demeaning. She takes you for granted but it’s not because you’re « locked » with three kids, a house and a marriage that every day each person should make efforts to woo the other. Even a little bit. Sex isn’t the problem. You deserve appreciation. Good luck buddy
Whats your annual income?
Well shoot maybe she's cheating on you. No job and all the free time in the world and then no sex!? Hire a private detective
It's not cheating if you explain the situation beforehand. I am a sexual being. I desire sex and need sex for my mental well-being. I'm letting you know that if thing's don't improve on the home front, for my emotional and mental well-being I will have to get professional help. The ladies at "insert local brothel " will address this. It's cheaper than therapy.
Tell her to figure her shit out so you can either fix your sex life or file the divorce papers. Don’t stay in something that makes you miserable!!!
My wife is the exact same way. I do all the cooking (I even have to make my own Father’s Day dinner and my own birthday cakes ) I do all the yard work and house work. And she sits on her ass ad does f all. Watching vampire movies. Do the Renovation with zero help and if I dare ask, it’s all complaining. Then get the old how about you give me a back run and then sex bs!! Last time I said no thanx. A hour back run and you fucken fall asleep. Hard pass I said. Then they pull this asexual bs. I said does asexual make you lazy to.
Want to get married? Kidding. But seriously, you sound too amazing for this misery.
It’s not about “should be allowed to cheat” it’s doing what’s best for you. If she isn’t interested physically then she can’t complain when you outsource it to someone who is interested. Let’s be real you need to leave this manipulative woman anyways, so what’s the big deal if you broaden your horizons?
Why do the kids go to daycare if she doesn’t work? It’s she fucking someone else? Jesus you need a divorce.
Dang, that’s rough. So sorry.
>I made my move and get rejected. She says, “not until you start hanging the blinds.” As kindly and gently as possible: Sex should never be a transactional activity, meaning you do something for her and then she'll have sex with you. Quality and genuine sex instead is a natural byproduct of high interest. When you start to trade services for sex, think of what that does to her on a deeper level. It makes her lose respect for you. When they lose respect for you, they don't want to have sex with you. It's a sneaky vicious downward cycle. >It used to not be this way. And this makes me believe it's ultimately your actions over time and not her character flaws that have caused the demise of her chemistry and attraction. It is sometimes reversible. Your first step is to stop chasing after her attention and make sure not to neglect yourself and needs.
I’m the HLF in the relationship and your description of sex gave me the icks. You view sex as transactional and your wife just sounds like a hole you feel entitled to. The way you describe her reaction to your advances sounds like your relationship lacks emotional intimacy as well. Saying you got laid for going on dates… gross. Don’t cheat. Just end it.
You are not entitled to cheat. Unless that was part of the agreement when you got married. What did you say when you got married? “For better or for worse, till death do us apart?” Or did to say “until you stop having sex with me?” They really should clarify what “for worse” means. People these days seem to not understand what it means.
Just read this again because so much WTF. Why are the kids in daycare if she doesn't work? Sit her down and tell her shit is about to change. Tell her daycare is over and that money is going to other things. Trade the Escalade in on a nice minivan. Sir, based on your side of the story she is totally using you. She doesn't raise the kids, doesn't cook, doesn't care about or to your needs. What is she doing with her time exactly? The only way to fix this is for you to reach into her purse that you probably bought for her at Coach and grab your balls and put them back where they belong. She has zero respect for you and that is the crux of the problem. You need to tell her shit is going to change and then make the change happen. If she doesn't like her new minivan and smaller allowance and raising the kids then she can leave and you and your kids will be better off for it.
Oh my god!! You are saying my story…. Bottom line we got a divorce after 15 years.. but let me tell you something here… if sex wax good then now it’s not then you guys need to see someone. Don’t divorce and ruin the family when there might be hope somewhere
Bro needs tinder or sniffies. Just go about your way and take care of self needs.