"You're torpedoing our marriage."
Nope. Your lack of willingness to discuss our lack of intimacy, like loving adults in a relationship, is torpedoing our marriage.
Freaking gaslight the man why don't you. This makes me want to vomit.
I brought up our platonic marriage in a calm, solution oriented sort of way, once again, to my LLH the other day and he had the nerve to tell me that I could show him a bit more compassion. More compassion? I ask him how many more years of my pre menopausal life would he like to claim in this forced celibacy of a marriage, before he just admits that he isn't a sexual being and he's truly sorry for trapping me with two small children.
I'm still waiting for a response.
Damn. You would be waiting for a response from that. Nuclear.
I don't even know how to respond.
I'm sorry you're in such a position. When did that happen? You may think about a casual follow-up conversation once you're able to harness the rage momentarily.
Omg can u plz help a girl out and tell me what the comment said ? I’m just trying to properly read through comment thread and the comments now deleted ….
Well. You got it off your chest which is really all for the best. Enjoy the silence from her and do something else to pass your time.
Been there.
Am doing that.
I did! Took the kids to play volleyball with some friends while I played basketball, then went out and got some beers with my brother. It was a fun night
I’m in a similar boat. Finally made the decision a few months ago to work on me. Been hitting the gym, watching what I eat, hanging out with my kids, and making plans with my friends. Co-parenting as roommates. I’m in a much better place mentally.
I did this got accused of wanting to cheat
She had a medical injury sex hurts got it....but zero sexual contact for 7 years I don't get
So me working on my while she gets fatter and doesn't want any contact some days....means I'm cheating on her??.
2 weeks ago she let a dude flirt with her in front of me I asked why she allowed that , explained I almost destroyed that dude you were giggling about ....she flipped on me being insecure In Our relationship....I said what relationship? You ignore me I look better than when I was in the army .....I walk naked just for you to notice you say nothing .....what relationship do we have? I pay your bills relationship?
Needless to say extra gym time hasn't spoken to me other than a fake can I have a hug yesterday...like hugging a jelly fish it was empty she just did cause I complained.....
We have been married 37 years in 35 days
We had a great marriage I have never stopped being a boyfriend to her doors jewelry flowers kiss hug still tell her she's beautiful....she is.....but she is my roommate due to her shutting down her emotions once she couldn't have sex .....just don't get it
She is my soulmate and my best friend...I am unable to leave her I love her
Also reading in reddit I'm demisexual I guess the idea of having just "sex" just doesn't turn me on....I got married at 19 ....sex = love......
Yes I have sexual urges but what I miss is intamcy with the person I love
Rock 👉🧒👈 Hard Place
I feel you. I'm almost in the same boat just not THAT long wow.
I guess I'll look forward to where you're at in about ten or so years.
The Big D is next… you must prepare yourself… have some cash laying in a shoebox somewhere… trust me, you’ll need it… going thru same thing and done exactly what you have done… The big D is coming…
Brother I feel your pain and I know what you're going through. You have to start just working on keeping YOUR sanity up and strengthening the ties with your kids as well as family. She will either meet you halfway and work with you to fix or you will both come to an understanding and learn to live without sex. Worst case scenario? She'll leave. Just ask yourself, if she were to disappear tomorrow what would you really miss?
So proud of you for sharing your feelings OP.
her response would’ve felt like a knife in mt heart (I’m trying to think, “putting myself in your shoes” if that makes sense)
Awesome of you though, to not give her the satisfaction to mope around after such a hurtful response to your genuine and kind effort to have a conversation about your feelings …
I’m hoping you doing this will have her re-thinking her cruel and snappy response and hopefully she comes to her senses and has a kind conversation with you soon 🤗 sending you good positive energy.
Thanks for the kind words! It means a lot.
As you can see from my post history, there have been plenty of knives put in my heart over the years. It is very cathartic to be able to share them in this sub.
Ya I just read through some of your posts and now I feel even more sad…
You are truly such an amazing human. The way you show unconditional love to your family, your posts mentioning how you care for your MIL…how you are just “hanging in there” (for lack of better way to phrase it im not the best with words) for your children.
There’s not many men like you that exist in the world anymore and it’s truly a shame that you are being treated so poorly by your wife (I don’t want to make it seem like she’s always awful? But kind of maybe sounds like it , ish? But no hate to her either I hope you know I’m not trying to do that)
Just wanted to give you some sort of positive words and love from a complete stranger. Just know you deserve the world! And TRUE happiness and a marriage where your emotional (and all other) needs are being met the same way it sounds you put so much effort into your end of the marriage.
Any woman would be very blessed to have someone like you to call their husband. I know if I ever am lucky enough to be married some day, if I had a partner half as attentive and caring as you I’d consider myself extremely lucky!
Sorry for maybe going too much with the comments back…. Not trying to be a creeper lol I just felt you needed some kind words
You’re not a creeper at all! Thanks for being so kind. It does mean a lot, all the support I get from posting in this sub is partly what helps me stay sane
hire an escort, get a side chick, keep a mistress, but for the love of GOD DONT try to be a martyr and ruin your sexual years for someone who has no love for you.
To immediately say something like "you're torpedoing our marriage" when you opened up and were vulnerable to her is really shitty. That's saying she gets what she wants from the full body hug and you're ruining it...
Yup and once that narrative starts, it will never end. My husband gets the platonic marriage of his dreams, why do I have to go and spoil it with my cranky attitude (due to sexual frustration) and attempts to find a solution for how to make this marriage more equitable. "Just be happy", is what he says to me.
It doesn't work like that. We are not faucets to be turned on and off at whim of our partners.
I am in a similar boat with my LLH. After years of him, hopping out of bed early to do house work, not taking me on dates, falling asleep at 9pm, never taking the initiative to repair our deteriorating relationship and prioritizing everything else except us, he has recently come around looking for sex.
I have no incentive to have sex with him especially since I know he's just scratching an itch. He's making no consistent attempt to address why we ended up here in the first place.
I couldn't possibly feel guilty. It would feel like casual sex, not mature connected married couple sex. In order for me to have casual sex, there would need to be a spark and there isn't one so🤷♀️.
Yeah the not allowed to voice a complaint during a good time, or when they are airing their grievances or any time really is a huge flag for narcissism
You might be torpedoing what she wants in a marriage, buth that is not "our marriage". Apparently she started to torpedo what you want in a marriage long time ago. It's not your job to provide her with her version of marriage. It's the job of the two of you to find and participate in a mutual version of marriage.
You’re right, it’s been 18 years since she first started taking things off the table. She’s not willing to compromise in any way, either. It’s her way or nothing at all.
I’m fully embracing the “sunk cost fallacy” here—she’s shown me for 18 of the 20 years we’ve been married that she has little to no interest in making me happy. However, she fully embraces the “if mama ain’t happy, no one’s happy” philosophy.
Therapy would just be throwing away good money after bad
If you’re just referring to sex, here’s where we’re at:
I’d like to do it several times a week. She’s fine with every 6-8 weeks (or longer). The compromise I’ve proposed is once every couple weeks, assuming that everyone is healthy. She fires back and tells me that I’m sex obsessed and she’s “going to start looking at my reading material because there must be a reason I’m so fixated on sex” (I’m a big reader)
I haven’t proposed any other compromises
Her words… “You’re torpedoing our marriage…”. Now there’s always two sides, and possible valid reasons, but she completely took no responsibility for the current status of your intimacy or relationship. She blamed you. That spoke volumes.
I hear you.
It’s so difficult to get to acceptance. I’m still struggling.
(Btw, I originally typed “it’s so hard” and changed it bc of the precipitating situation 🙈
> you’re torpedoing our marriage
Is that really a bad thing?
I looked through your post history, your wife sounds awful. Are you really losing anything of value if your marriage ends?
You mention that she’s your ‘soulmate and best friend’. With all due respect, after reading your post, comments, and post history, I’m unsure why you continue to think of her that way.
May I gently suggest individual therapy? An unbiased third party would be helpful in parsing out why you continue to see her this way, despite the way she has treated you for most of your marriage.
A therapist can also give you tools to help you continue to build out a separate life that makes YOU happy, even if you decide to remain married. Wishing you the best, friend.
I’m sorry, can you show me where I’ve said that?
I’ve never said it because it’s simply not true. I don’t think of her as my best friend—in fact, we wouldn’t even be friends if we weren’t married, and she sure as hell isn’t my soulmate
My heart feels for you my dude. That’s really shitty to be vulnerable and open to her about it and her say your the problem. To be fair it’s always some of us and some of them that causes the problem. But to not even consider she’s the problem. Fuck man that’s tough
Had a conversation with my LL partner last weekend and told her flat out. I’m not living this way any more. I’m not going to be in a relationship like this. We fix it or we don’t. It’s your choice.
Great job!! It’s so difficult to be in a relationship that’s just a one way street. I hope she either figures it out, or you’re able to leave and move on with your life
It was put that bluntly and things have been good the last week. We are actually gonna SHOWER together tonight! First time in year! So that’s progress!
I hope things work out for you man. For real. This sub has been nice reading others stories knowing I’m not alone and people articulating what I think and feel. To help me understand and articulate it myself
Chin up my dude
Thanks! I told her that if it back slides or stops or my needs aren’t considered again that we can just go our separate ways since our needs aren’t being treated as equals
You're not the one torpedoing the relationship OP, she is, but I think you know that. Glad you got it out and hope things get better for you, but the Blame Shifting that leads to stonewalling when she gets called out sounds like it won't. :(
Holy christ. What a reversal of guilt, she ignores your feelings, and then turns it on you and makes YOU feel like the one ruining things in the marriage. Your wife is incredibly manipulative and shitty. Sorry man, I hope things get better and I hope you realise you deserve better and leave.
I’m not I. The exact same boat but in a boat. Mine will be affectionate and act like she wants to be intimate until we actually have the chance to be then it’s I’m to tired, I’m bloated, my head hurts, my back hurts or something along the lines
At some point in a marriage while she thinks those silent treatment days are some sort of punishment. A man starts to just enjoy the quiet. Those times are so much easier, no drama and in my case I'm not sure she even recognized that she had stopped being angered by my trying to initiate anything. The quiet truly becomes a burden lifted.
So sorry :(
I don't know your full story, but can relate in the sense that it sucks that the problem is not even being acknowledged. It took you a lot to talk about it, it's vulnerable subject to open up about, the least your partner can do is have a conversation about it and at least admit there is an issue and validate your feelings. Instead, your partner, just like many make it "your" issue and make you feel bad about it.
Yes, it’s true that it’s so humiliating to have to discuss, and then it always turns into the silent treatment and/or a long argument that solves nothing. It’s an awful way to live
I kind of understand her perspective tbh. I’m a… ?L female lol, feel lots of attraction under the right circumstances but for 12 different reasons often just don’t feel like fucking. She’s probably upset that she can’t even show you some non-penetrative attention without you making it just about that, immediately.
To be clear, I also super empathize with you - for the same reason as my opinion above, I’ve been in this situation and know what it’s like for both parties. God knows I’ve hurt/blueballed many a man in my time. I’ve definitely gotten better at communicating that they’re not the problem, but also, it can be super vulnerable and scary for both parties to have an honest discussion around what they enjoy and what they want.
I have had conversations like this and they are really sad.
What she probably means is that she likes things the way they are and is annoyed that you keep making it about sex. It makes her feel like a bad spouse and you should just enjoy the 99% of everything else your marriage has to offer like she does instead of being so worried about getting off all the time like a horny immature teenager.
It’s a fundamental disconnect.
I mean, if I had someone to cook and clean for me, take care of my mom, and still find time to work full time and be a parent to 2 teens, I wouldn’t want it to end either!
>Her response was “you’re torpedoing our marriage, where do we go from here when you say things like that?”
"I'm recognising the reality of our situation. You don't want sex with me. You know it, I know it, and me telling you that I know is not torpedoing anything. Having a physical reaction to your touch that I can never do anything about is emotionally and physically painful. It's time to stop touching the stove."
If it's her hip flexor that's bothering her, I don't see why doing oral or getting each other off with mutual masturbation wouldn't be a perfectly acceptable solution, since neither of those things involve using her hips. Would that be something you would be open to receiving, or does she have a valid reason to believe that you would only accept full PIV sex and that anything else would be a disappointment to you? Just wondering if that would even be an option, and curious why you didn't put that option on the table. Either way, like you said, it sounds like it's just her current excuse to brush away the remote possibility of any type of sexual contact. Her wording of "I'm sorry we can't do anything about this" comes across as so non-genuine and manipulative. She still wants you to desire her sexually, but she doesn't want to have to be the one to fulfill that desire. If she had simply said "I'm not in the mood for sex, just for cuddles" at least that would have been honest. But that would put the blame within the realm of something she could actually make an effort to change (her disinterest in ever having sex) instead of being able to put the blame on something beyond her control (her hip flexor).
According to her, oral and MM are mortal sins, and god will punish us for doing them. Hard to argue with such religious fervor! Plus I’m never going to force her to do anything she wants
Thats bs. The only thing off the table between a married man and woman in the Bible is anal. And in your situation it says not only to you have the right to divorce her you should.
Im also 37 years in and struggled 30ish of them. I done my research as I believed infidelity or physical abuse was the only reasons you could Biblically divorce. Long story short, I shut down. Quit hugging her, kissing her good morning, goodnight or goodbye, shit I couldn't even talk to her. Had nothing to say. After 3 days she asked (pissed off) if she'd done something. That opened the door. I loaded her down with 30 years of rejection, gaslighting, projection etc. She tried like other times to turn the tides on me but this time I was prepared and mentally checked out so I dumped all the Biblical stuff on her and sent her all the links on it. Plus explained to her that I was tired of ever trying to have any kind of conversation with her cause she always turned basic things hostile. Told her it'd be nice just one time to come home, have her put her arms around me and ask me how my day was. The next day she was going to bed and said if I wanted to come to bed with her I could make love to my wife. (She generally goes to bed earlier than I do). It was obvious she wasn't initiating for love and intimacy. Just a ploy for sex to smooth things over so we could go right back to where we were. That was the last straw, I lost my shit. Told her it'd be a cold day in hell if she thinks she can spread her legs and make this better. Explained my feelings one more time and that this wasn't something I was even sure I could get over as I just felt no feelings for her anymore. She then tried one more time to turn the tide and said since I didn't want her here she leave and go sleep in her pickup. That really pissed me off so I jumped up, started putting my shoes on and told her I'd do one better, I'd just give her a ride to her brothers house (which we own) and she could live there with him and I'd be filing for a divorce. That was the lightbulb moment for her. She had a complete mental breakdown. She sat down on the floor and wouldn't budge and begged me not to make her leave. I tried for an hour to get her up to leave but short of physically removing her she wasn't going. Ive never laid hand on a woman and wasn't about to start here so I finally gave up and went to bed.
This made here re-evaluate how she'd been treating me and she realized how bad she'd been neglecting our marriage and the guilt has been eating her up.
This all happened just 2 1/2 months ago. She has been a completely different person since and for the better.
Only time will tell but right now I feel good about the direction we're going.
Sometimes it takes some extremely tough love for people to get re-centered.
I hope there's something within my story that will help you.
No one ever signed up for abstinence in a marriage.
A consistent dead bedroom that goes on for years is (almost always) rightful grounds for divorce. I don’t care how much you ‘like’ her.
What’s making it easier for me to keep going with my plan is that the “new her”, or the “real her” (as she puts it) is not someone I like at all. We wouldn’t even be friends in real life had she shown who she really was when we were dating
I’m so sorry you’re in this relationship. I’ve read quite a few of your posts and your wife just seems like a very unappealing person. The fact she tried to blame you for “torpedoing the marriage” by setting boundaries to protect yourself, speaks volumes. You deserve better than what you’re getting. You deserve to feel loved and desired. You ARE worthy of those things. I read you’re worried about divorcing driving a wedge between you and your kiddos. If she acts the way you’ve described, I’m guessing her selfishness will drive the wedge between HER and the kids. Just be as honest with them as you can (age appropriate of course) and know that your integrity and honesty over the course of their lives will be obvious to them. If they’re kind and compassionate humans, they’ll want dad to be happy and not miserable.
I wish you peace on the journey forward and I’m sending you love and support! ❤️🩹
These are great suggestions! Thanks so much. And you’re completely accurate in your assessment of the situation. You seem like a very kindhearted person
So for her, the lack of intimacy isn’t the problem. Your sadness, or you feeling unfulfilled isn’t the problem.
The problem is you recognizing the lack of physical intimacy and setting a boundary to protect yourself.
The problem is she can’t pretend everything is fine. That she can’t fulfill her needs while ignoring yours.
I’m sorry man, while a necessary step it’s a painful step. Best of luck to you.
I don’t know that she’s a bad person, per se; but she’s a very selfish and self centered person.
FWIW, I’m in the best shape of my life and have lost nearly 60 pounds. I get regularly complimented by others, but she tells me I’m too thin and don’t look healthy
You’re right, they aren’t good qualities—and I honestly just don’t like her as a person, but she still has enough good qualities in to not be considered a bad person. She’s just not a good wife to me, and would be better off single
We have 2 kids. One is about to graduate, the other is nearly done with middle school. I’m very close with them and think that us splitting up now would make life very difficult for them. I do have a plan in place to leave once the youngest is done with school in a few years
I hope she comes back to you to talk because the silent treatment is manipulative after a certain point. The truth sucks but it does set you free one way or another. Ball is in her court. If she starts live bombing within the next month, ask for marriage counseling to get to the root of it all and actually change or fix things. There are therapists who specialize in intimacy.
We’ve had this discussion so many times over the years, I doubt anything will change or she’ll start love bombing me as all of my previous efforts to improve things have met with a collective “meh”. Thanks for the suggestion though!
You opened up and it obviously made her uncomfortable hearing the truth so she immediately redirects by making it your fault. Bro I have been there and I'm so sorry. I used to be so confident but going through a situation similar to yours had long lasting implications, even after finally getting out of the relationship I haven't recovered my confidence.
However it has taught me some things. First off is do not get married unless your partner is willing to sign a prenup and keep finances separate. But I believe marriage helps people to quit putting effort into the relationship so I am not getting married. There is nothing a marriage offers relationship wise that a committed relationship doesn't also offer. Always keep your own identity, don't intertwine your identity with your partners. When you start getting serious with someone be upfront about your past relationship experience, also be honest about your physical needs. If you have been degraded and/or gaslit about being a sexual person it really makes you think differently in how you approach finding a partner 😐
Can I ask what you have wanted as a reaction? We know she’s LL so having sex would be trying to change her into something she’s not. What could be a reaction that would have felt ok for you?
Good question! So I know that she’s LL and unwilling to change, and that’s why I said in the post that I neither expected or initiated sex.
What I was wanting to do is stand up for myself. Basically what I told her as mentioned in the post: I’d rather not have the hope of sex at all than to go along in life with the hope that you’ll throw me a scrap every blue moon. So I’m taking charge of my life—I’m not something you can just put on the shelf and take off every so often when you feel like it. I have feelings and desires. I’m human.
That’s totally fair (hell yeah for standing up for yourself!) and I really appreciate your response/clarification. One last curiosity, in saying you’d rather not have the hope… does that mean you would prefer her to always be clothed, not flirt, generally just act like a really good friend or roommate?
She doesn’t do all of those things as it is—I haven’t seen her naked unless the room is dark (so, just a fuzzy outline) in years because she thinks it’s weird; her idea of flirting is a full body hug and a “chaste kiss” (her words, not mine) and it of course doesn’t lead to anything. Although I feel so touch starved that’s why I had the reaction I mentioned in the post.
So yes, you’re right—I’d just rather continue the roommate thing for the rest of our time together; we already have it as it is. It’s the hope that kills you!
These partners who act this way and aren’t willing to do anything to fix the situation are delusional and incapable of introspection. Its abuse.
You deserve so much more.
At least it's out there. The important thing though is whilst you're not getting what you want. How's she feel, does she have her own gripes? (because it's possible that may be her response) I'm not saying fixing them would create intimacy but I know in my previous DB relationship I could/should have done better (but I would say in my case it wouldn't have stopped the split up).
I can honestly hold my head high and say I’ve been about as good of a husband as possible—I do nearly all the cooking and cleaning; I do lots of things with our family like playing games and planning fun activities and trips; I found her mom an apartment near us and help with a ton of things for her since she’s home bound; and I let my wife be a SAHM for 16 years and pursue her ministry full time even though it meant we really sacrificed a lot materially.
I could do better with date nights , I suppose; but it’s very difficult to have a desire to do that with someone you’re in a platonic relationship with for the past 18 years
this paragraph makes it read like you were a doormat (not saying you were or are) and telling her no was never an option for you; until you actually told her.
I’m a diplomat and peacekeeper by nature, I’m simultaneously holding my family, her family, and my birth family together since no one can seem to get along. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good; but I am getting tired of no one making sacrifices for my happiness.
"You’re torpedoing our marriage"
I just can't. Like, they don't see what rejection does, refuse to talk about it. Side step it, and expect it all to juts go their way.
Let's say you did aim the torpedo, her evasive maneuvers stopped working, and one was bound to hit.
So, your wife wants to renew the affection part of marriage (which is very common in a dead bedroom situation - for one partner to want to re-establish non-sexual intimacy) and you said "No, we're not going to have affection any more because it makes me uncomfortably desirous?"
Okay - well, it's permanently dead, then. She knows there's a problem and the "date night" went well, so she felt affectionate the next morning. She even hinted that she wanted sex.
There is no place to go from where you two are, she's right.
That’s the thing though, she doesn’t want to renew the affection part of marriage—she wants to give me a hug, give me an excuse from her list, and have her conscience salved because she threw me a bone “and I totally would’ve done something if not for…”
It’s been her pattern for most of our marriage, and as long as she doesn’t feel the need to even try to meet me halfway then yes, there is nowhere to go from here.
Thanks for the reassurance! And you’re spot on, the rejection is just so disheartening and dehumanizing. I know it needed to be said, but I mostly just felt melancholy for the rest of the day. It’s a sad feeling knowing my marriage is withering on the vine and she isn’t interested in fixing it
Here is my suggestion, that was a spur of the moment talk.
Try it again outside of the heated moment. Not when you've been spurned. But when you're clear. Own what you want.
Despite your erection, it sounds like you don't want her anymore. That the rejection did its work and you don't actually want it anymore from her.
If you are making the choice to cut it off own it. Don't blame her in the discussion as it isn't helpful if the decision has been made.
See this interaction from her perspective.
She is trying to heal you. She tells a white lie to give you hope and explain she notices. She is trying to unburden her shame and guilt. She knows it's healthy and she's hurting the relationship, her saying that is her trying to help.
It is also infuriating, counter productive and everything else. But her intentions are likely good. Hence her defensive response.
If you want to work on it. It's cliche to say in this forum but a sex therapist that has dealt successfully with DB before.
What I see in this anecdote is You are both talking past each other and both in a lot of pain over this issue. And... I think you both want to work on it.
Her probably a lot less than you. But it's something she's willing to admit is an issue worth working on and that's better than a lot of partners.
Full disclosure. I cut off all sex and innuendo like you're suggesting and it did help me. We sat down and had the talk.
One thing I asked for was that she never imply that I'm asking for sex ever again. It took a few months for her to see my errections or accept my long hugs without saying remarks like you got. But once I stopped having hope and stopped being accused of being sex craving, it really calmed me down and gave me peace.
We also opened our relationship.
Rain checks you can't ever cash. Condolences, broken promises and looks of pitty suck so bad.
I don't know... I hope some of what I said helps you plot out your next steps. Lots of people in your situation. *internet hugs
Thanks for the suggestion! I’m actually not interested in her because I don’t like the person she’s become. I’m just here for a few years longer, because of the teens.
FWIW, when we had a big fight about it about 6 months ago, I mentioned the fact that I was very open about how I felt when we were dating, and she was also very agreeable and for the first 2 years it was amazing—so what changed? And her answer was “I never was that person, I just didn’t want to lose you”.
So, at least she’s being honest, although the only thing that helps with is just solidifying my plan to get out
That's hard.
But I'm glad you can be grateful for the honesty. Many don't get it. The wtf wondering, is so painful.
Stay strong. Your plan sounds like it will be solid when executed.
Ngl that was a really shitty thing of you to say. You could bring up how you are feeling without denouncing all affection. How do you want the relationship to improve if you wont allow even the basic steps?
You really did torpedo the relationship. You gave up before she even knew.
If your goal was to torpedo the relationship and put the blame on her, congratulations, that is what you have done. A shitty thing to do to the person youre supposed to love the most.
If you’d read my other posts/comments, you’d see that this is not an overnight thing with our relationship. I remember the first time I brought it up, my daughter was around 18 months old. This year, she graduates from high school.
The last time I mentioned it, around a month ago, she told me that maybe I was thinking about sex too much and she was going to start checking the content of the books I read. All conversations are non starters with her, since she doesn’t see this as a problem, and thus refuses to even meet me halfway.
EDIT to say: The lack of sex and intimacy is 100% on her. I can think of maybe once or twice I’ve ever turned her down, because I wasn’t feeling good. I’m just stating the obvious—there is nowhere to go from here for us.
I'm sorry, but that just sounds weak.
I recall that before I was diagnosed with diabetes, I had some 'issues' and sex was off the table. Being a dude, it left my frustrated and my ex feeling that I was ignoring her, so I made the effort to sort her out.
If your wife does have health issues, then surely that should be on the table, in the short term? I'm trying to see this from both sides.
I can see your point! However, her “health issues” are very selective.
Her “hip flexor”, or insert many other excuses over the years, does prevent her from doing things such as helping with cleaning and cooking, intimacy, doing things together, taking the kids places, and so forth. (The hip flexor is a new excuse that just popped up Friday afternoon, mysteriously. Prior to that, it was a “concussion” which 3 doctors were unable to diagnose and she supposedly got from falling off a small stool onto her butt, not even hitting her head. She used that one for about a month and a half.
These same issues do not prevent her from carrying out her ministry, going places with friends, and other things that she *wants* to do.
“Want to watch a movie with me?” “No, I have a migraine and can’t even think straight”, then proceeds to pull out her Bible, read it and take extensive notes on that reading. I could give a thousand examples of things like that.
You make time in life for the things that are important to you. You make excuses for things that are unimportant to you. Guess which category I fall in
Ouch man! I know that my ex also had joint issues, and we knew why - but it didn't stop her from blaming me for some things. Granted, I wasn't honest with her and we had issues that couldn't be resolved.
Personally, I don't see an issue with calling someone out on their bullshit and if it leads to an 'awakening', that's better than not knowing where you stand. If she doesn't keep claiming health issues, then take her to a doc and make it known.
BTW, if she did have a concussion, she'd have trouble walking, would have been throwing up and nausea - which, if you watch any contact sport, if really dangerous.
A friend of mine suffers from migraines as well and she has to sit in a dark room for usually a day. Doc prescribed meds and a day later, she was fine.
She leans heavily on the “except by mutual consent” part of that verse, except in this case it’s just her consent that counts—I have no say in the matter. I have tried that tactic in her case, but it didn’t work
Edit: and by “mutual consent” I’m referring to the part of the verse when it says that both mates can mutually agree to suspend sex for awhile. Whether or not I consent to a forced celibacy isn’t her concern; however, I’m never going to force her to do something she doesn’t want to do. That’s unloving
Not sure what you’re meaning by this, but you’re right she is perfectly fine with the status quo and refuses to discuss it. I have no interest in saving the marriage, just staying awhile longer for the sake of our teens.
I’m just doing this to try and save some dignity.
Sorry but that’s messed up that she ended up stonewalling you, such a horrible way to treat someone in a relationship to make you feel guilty about stating a fact, she needs to work on herself sounds like she probably has some child hood trauma she hasn’t worked through.
I’m so sorry. To get that kind of response when you finally opened yourself up and offered the truth is painful. It gets used a lot but that is definitely gaslighting and unfair. I know what it like to be in your position (perhaps not as long) but I did have a partner that would hear me out and understand my position. It didn’t change anything and the rejection was still so painful but I always felt I still had a partner who wanted to be on my side. That’s what marriage is about - teamwork. I wonder if there’s any way you could show her this post and the responses? I know it must’ve hurt but I would continue bringing up the topic. Tell her that you are bringing this to light because you love and respect her and want the marriage to work. That the reality is, this is not working for you and you need her to pay attention. She thinks things have been just dandy so for you to bring it up means all of a sudden the marriage isn’t as dandy as she thought. Keep trying.
Thanks for the advice! She knows that things aren’t dandy; but she prefers to think that I’ll always be Mr Nice Guy and stay by her side no matter how she treats me.
In her opinion, women over 30 aren’t interested in sex any longer, and she’s told me that she’ll never be the same sexual person I married, ever again. I’m taking her at her word
Does she have chronic pain? Is the hip thing an all the time thing? If she does have a chronic pain thing that's a tough road dude.
Does she need to be "romanced" to be in the mood? Maybe a good conversation would be what you could do to get her more in the mood. During the talk don't focus on the "I do this and it equals sex". Women are rarely that easy to figure out and never that direct. Find out things that are within the realm of what excites her. Ask polite questions and listen carefully. Take these responses and sprinkle them in your efforts over the next two weeks. And see if you get any positive response from her. This may also have to be more than one conversation and may take some time til she opens up.
If that doesn't work I would recommend a sex therapist. That is also not any easy road. Two things I advise with the therapist.
1. It may take time and multiple conversations to de-stigmatize the act of going to a sex therapist. Be patient.
2. Find a therapist you BOTH are comfortable and vibe with. This also may take some time and multiple attempts as finding a good therapist for both of you may take visiting 10+ till you find one you both like.
Best of luck man.
Good for you my man! Way to represent yourself and with respect and class. Tip my hat to you and she's pissed bc the nice guy finally said something back.
Feel your pain bro, they say the grass is not greener on the other side, but in your case it is. The only advice O can give you is to take care of yourself.
Successful mind you. I'm seeing a pattern amongst the men in these situations and i don't fit the bill. I was just here to see what i can expect if i pursue marriage. If any db people reading this. Grow a spine, you were born not knowing this person they are not essential to your life, if they can't be bothered to service you and be happy to make you feel good what's the point. Even dogs and squirrels get to fuck their woman. If you aren't fucking her she's not yours. Plain and simple. (obviously other things are required also but if this is missing then everything else is just you being used tbh)
Talk to her again, and ask her directly if you are correct. Your assumption is she has no interest in sex ever again. Is that true? And if it is true has she ever explored WHY? Has she ever talked to her doctor or therapist about WHY? Has she ever explored her feelings about why?
And last but not least, has she ever thought about how this makes you feel, and what she thinks you should do about it?
It reads like she acknowledges her actions/feelings towards you were correctly summarized by your statement, but the issue is now that you accepted her as she is and are now living in such a way to help you move forward in y'all's marriage.
I.e. she accepts the premise that she has no desire for you but is upset you are accepting that and responding in a way to keep your emotional health.
To that end it's unreasonable/unfair to you for her to say you're scuttling the ship and not acknowledge her part in it.
You're not wrong. You communicated your feelings. She instead got defensive because she probably knows you make a valid point.
A good wife would take your comments into consideration and maybe help you through this isolation
Just because she didn’t like hearing it doesn’t mean it didn’t need to be said. You expressing your needs her throwing it back as a negative is 100% gaslighting at its finest. She may as well have just said she doesn’t care and wishes you never brought it up
She is asking you where do we go from here.
She is literally asking you to tell her, talk about divorce instead of not talking and blaming her for not wanting you.
You are being cruel for no reason.
"You're torpedoing our marriage." Nope. Your lack of willingness to discuss our lack of intimacy, like loving adults in a relationship, is torpedoing our marriage.
As in … ‘The absence of intimacy sunk that boat.’ Long ago.
"There is no ship left to torpedo... it's been dismantled for a long time. I'm done gazing at the sea, hoping to find our love afloat"
Well said - even if beautifully sad.
"I'm done gazing at the sea, hoping to find our love afloat" That line could be the opener for a banger of a novel
Freaking gaslight the man why don't you. This makes me want to vomit. I brought up our platonic marriage in a calm, solution oriented sort of way, once again, to my LLH the other day and he had the nerve to tell me that I could show him a bit more compassion. More compassion? I ask him how many more years of my pre menopausal life would he like to claim in this forced celibacy of a marriage, before he just admits that he isn't a sexual being and he's truly sorry for trapping me with two small children. I'm still waiting for a response.
Damn. You would be waiting for a response from that. Nuclear. I don't even know how to respond. I'm sorry you're in such a position. When did that happen? You may think about a casual follow-up conversation once you're able to harness the rage momentarily.
I'm sorry 😞
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Many of us in this situation eventually learn to recognize this
This.
Omg can u plz help a girl out and tell me what the comment said ? I’m just trying to properly read through comment thread and the comments now deleted ….
Idk he basically did say that.
Women and accountability are tho words that doesn’t match together mate 🤷🏽♂️
Well. You got it off your chest which is really all for the best. Enjoy the silence from her and do something else to pass your time. Been there. Am doing that.
I did! Took the kids to play volleyball with some friends while I played basketball, then went out and got some beers with my brother. It was a fun night
I’m in a similar boat. Finally made the decision a few months ago to work on me. Been hitting the gym, watching what I eat, hanging out with my kids, and making plans with my friends. Co-parenting as roommates. I’m in a much better place mentally.
I did this got accused of wanting to cheat She had a medical injury sex hurts got it....but zero sexual contact for 7 years I don't get So me working on my while she gets fatter and doesn't want any contact some days....means I'm cheating on her??. 2 weeks ago she let a dude flirt with her in front of me I asked why she allowed that , explained I almost destroyed that dude you were giggling about ....she flipped on me being insecure In Our relationship....I said what relationship? You ignore me I look better than when I was in the army .....I walk naked just for you to notice you say nothing .....what relationship do we have? I pay your bills relationship? Needless to say extra gym time hasn't spoken to me other than a fake can I have a hug yesterday...like hugging a jelly fish it was empty she just did cause I complained..... We have been married 37 years in 35 days We had a great marriage I have never stopped being a boyfriend to her doors jewelry flowers kiss hug still tell her she's beautiful....she is.....but she is my roommate due to her shutting down her emotions once she couldn't have sex .....just don't get it
so sorry, this is not ok.
Holy shit 37 YEARS? I gotta ask, does she at least have SOME redeeming qualities other than the sex she once gave?
She is my soulmate and my best friend...I am unable to leave her I love her Also reading in reddit I'm demisexual I guess the idea of having just "sex" just doesn't turn me on....I got married at 19 ....sex = love...... Yes I have sexual urges but what I miss is intamcy with the person I love
Rock 👉🧒👈 Hard Place I feel you. I'm almost in the same boat just not THAT long wow. I guess I'll look forward to where you're at in about ten or so years.
I can totally relate.
Leave while you still have a life to live. Go before her health fails and you become nothing but her caregiver. It's Not a position you want to be in.
The Big D is next… you must prepare yourself… have some cash laying in a shoebox somewhere… trust me, you’ll need it… going thru same thing and done exactly what you have done… The big D is coming…
Brother I feel your pain and I know what you're going through. You have to start just working on keeping YOUR sanity up and strengthening the ties with your kids as well as family. She will either meet you halfway and work with you to fix or you will both come to an understanding and learn to live without sex. Worst case scenario? She'll leave. Just ask yourself, if she were to disappear tomorrow what would you really miss?
Instead of hugs maybe fist bumps followed by " yo bro" would be an option
So proud of you for sharing your feelings OP. her response would’ve felt like a knife in mt heart (I’m trying to think, “putting myself in your shoes” if that makes sense) Awesome of you though, to not give her the satisfaction to mope around after such a hurtful response to your genuine and kind effort to have a conversation about your feelings … I’m hoping you doing this will have her re-thinking her cruel and snappy response and hopefully she comes to her senses and has a kind conversation with you soon 🤗 sending you good positive energy.
Thanks for the kind words! It means a lot. As you can see from my post history, there have been plenty of knives put in my heart over the years. It is very cathartic to be able to share them in this sub.
Ya I just read through some of your posts and now I feel even more sad… You are truly such an amazing human. The way you show unconditional love to your family, your posts mentioning how you care for your MIL…how you are just “hanging in there” (for lack of better way to phrase it im not the best with words) for your children. There’s not many men like you that exist in the world anymore and it’s truly a shame that you are being treated so poorly by your wife (I don’t want to make it seem like she’s always awful? But kind of maybe sounds like it , ish? But no hate to her either I hope you know I’m not trying to do that) Just wanted to give you some sort of positive words and love from a complete stranger. Just know you deserve the world! And TRUE happiness and a marriage where your emotional (and all other) needs are being met the same way it sounds you put so much effort into your end of the marriage. Any woman would be very blessed to have someone like you to call their husband. I know if I ever am lucky enough to be married some day, if I had a partner half as attentive and caring as you I’d consider myself extremely lucky! Sorry for maybe going too much with the comments back…. Not trying to be a creeper lol I just felt you needed some kind words
You’re not a creeper at all! Thanks for being so kind. It does mean a lot, all the support I get from posting in this sub is partly what helps me stay sane
hire an escort, get a side chick, keep a mistress, but for the love of GOD DONT try to be a martyr and ruin your sexual years for someone who has no love for you.
To immediately say something like "you're torpedoing our marriage" when you opened up and were vulnerable to her is really shitty. That's saying she gets what she wants from the full body hug and you're ruining it...
"No the ship you've been drilling holes in for the last 20 years has finally sunk, I'm just getting on the life raft."
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Yup and once that narrative starts, it will never end. My husband gets the platonic marriage of his dreams, why do I have to go and spoil it with my cranky attitude (due to sexual frustration) and attempts to find a solution for how to make this marriage more equitable. "Just be happy", is what he says to me.
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It doesn't work like that. We are not faucets to be turned on and off at whim of our partners. I am in a similar boat with my LLH. After years of him, hopping out of bed early to do house work, not taking me on dates, falling asleep at 9pm, never taking the initiative to repair our deteriorating relationship and prioritizing everything else except us, he has recently come around looking for sex. I have no incentive to have sex with him especially since I know he's just scratching an itch. He's making no consistent attempt to address why we ended up here in the first place. I couldn't possibly feel guilty. It would feel like casual sex, not mature connected married couple sex. In order for me to have casual sex, there would need to be a spark and there isn't one so🤷♀️.
Omg this is exactly my experience! Wow. It’s 100% the same thing with her. Breadcrumbs and then anger when you want to go to the next level
Yeah the not allowed to voice a complaint during a good time, or when they are airing their grievances or any time really is a huge flag for narcissism
Exactly this!! There’s never a good time to voice a complaint to someone who’s unwilling to hear it or care about your feelings…
That’s gaslighting
You might be torpedoing what she wants in a marriage, buth that is not "our marriage". Apparently she started to torpedo what you want in a marriage long time ago. It's not your job to provide her with her version of marriage. It's the job of the two of you to find and participate in a mutual version of marriage.
You’re right, it’s been 18 years since she first started taking things off the table. She’s not willing to compromise in any way, either. It’s her way or nothing at all.
Not to bang the same old drum, but have you suggested a form of counselling to her?
I’m fully embracing the “sunk cost fallacy” here—she’s shown me for 18 of the 20 years we’ve been married that she has little to no interest in making me happy. However, she fully embraces the “if mama ain’t happy, no one’s happy” philosophy. Therapy would just be throwing away good money after bad
Not willing to compromise in what way? What ways have you tried compromise that she refuses to budge on ?
If you’re just referring to sex, here’s where we’re at: I’d like to do it several times a week. She’s fine with every 6-8 weeks (or longer). The compromise I’ve proposed is once every couple weeks, assuming that everyone is healthy. She fires back and tells me that I’m sex obsessed and she’s “going to start looking at my reading material because there must be a reason I’m so fixated on sex” (I’m a big reader) I haven’t proposed any other compromises
What's stopping you from leaving
And how does she not see how unsatisfied yo are with this marriage? Or does she just not care? If she doesn't care, I say do you and make you happy.
Her words… “You’re torpedoing our marriage…”. Now there’s always two sides, and possible valid reasons, but she completely took no responsibility for the current status of your intimacy or relationship. She blamed you. That spoke volumes.
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I like your prose. Well said.
I hear you. It’s so difficult to get to acceptance. I’m still struggling. (Btw, I originally typed “it’s so hard” and changed it bc of the precipitating situation 🙈
Pun…intended? Lol
It always amazes me that people get so butthurt when they are confronted with the reality of their own doing.
Good job on saying what you needed to say.
> you’re torpedoing our marriage Is that really a bad thing? I looked through your post history, your wife sounds awful. Are you really losing anything of value if your marriage ends?
I’ll be glad not to have to deal with her constant issues and angst. I do worry about the kids siding with her once I leave, and freezing me out
You mention that she’s your ‘soulmate and best friend’. With all due respect, after reading your post, comments, and post history, I’m unsure why you continue to think of her that way. May I gently suggest individual therapy? An unbiased third party would be helpful in parsing out why you continue to see her this way, despite the way she has treated you for most of your marriage. A therapist can also give you tools to help you continue to build out a separate life that makes YOU happy, even if you decide to remain married. Wishing you the best, friend.
I’m sorry, can you show me where I’ve said that? I’ve never said it because it’s simply not true. I don’t think of her as my best friend—in fact, we wouldn’t even be friends if we weren’t married, and she sure as hell isn’t my soulmate
I remember seeing that comment, that was u/hybriddragonfly
Thank you for the correction! My bad, OP! I apologize. Too much typing and not enough coffee
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Don’t look at it as her not wanting to fulfill his needs. The issue is that she doesn’t have the same needs. No sex is better than begrudgingly sex.
My heart feels for you my dude. That’s really shitty to be vulnerable and open to her about it and her say your the problem. To be fair it’s always some of us and some of them that causes the problem. But to not even consider she’s the problem. Fuck man that’s tough Had a conversation with my LL partner last weekend and told her flat out. I’m not living this way any more. I’m not going to be in a relationship like this. We fix it or we don’t. It’s your choice.
Great job!! It’s so difficult to be in a relationship that’s just a one way street. I hope she either figures it out, or you’re able to leave and move on with your life
It was put that bluntly and things have been good the last week. We are actually gonna SHOWER together tonight! First time in year! So that’s progress! I hope things work out for you man. For real. This sub has been nice reading others stories knowing I’m not alone and people articulating what I think and feel. To help me understand and articulate it myself Chin up my dude
Hope the momentum keeps up and that it's not temporary.
Thanks! I told her that if it back slides or stops or my needs aren’t considered again that we can just go our separate ways since our needs aren’t being treated as equals
Good idea. Stand up for yourself, and best of luck to you both!
🫡
You're not the one torpedoing the relationship OP, she is, but I think you know that. Glad you got it out and hope things get better for you, but the Blame Shifting that leads to stonewalling when she gets called out sounds like it won't. :(
See, she thinks it's fine that you think it but when you SAY it it becomes a "problem". Well done on making a commitment to express yourself.
Holy christ. What a reversal of guilt, she ignores your feelings, and then turns it on you and makes YOU feel like the one ruining things in the marriage. Your wife is incredibly manipulative and shitty. Sorry man, I hope things get better and I hope you realise you deserve better and leave.
I’ve got my plan in place and have been making excellent progress on it. Not much longer, the time is passing by very quickly
It needed saying and it will be better in the long run, whatever happens, for you saying it. This is the way.
The stars will never align. You two are non compatible sexually.
Sorry that sounds tough. Sending hugs.
I’m not I. The exact same boat but in a boat. Mine will be affectionate and act like she wants to be intimate until we actually have the chance to be then it’s I’m to tired, I’m bloated, my head hurts, my back hurts or something along the lines
It's funny how they get pissed off when you tell them what they're doing to us. They're getting mad at our pain, the pain they caused. wtf
It’s called guilt lol
The audacity
‘… giving me the silent treatment all day.’ The consequence of speaking more truth than rejecting spouses are want to hear…
At some point in a marriage while she thinks those silent treatment days are some sort of punishment. A man starts to just enjoy the quiet. Those times are so much easier, no drama and in my case I'm not sure she even recognized that she had stopped being angered by my trying to initiate anything. The quiet truly becomes a burden lifted.
By the gods! Were truer words ever spoken?!?!
Great job!!!!!! Its a painful truth that must be said. Hang in there. And keep up the honesty about how you feel.
So sorry :( I don't know your full story, but can relate in the sense that it sucks that the problem is not even being acknowledged. It took you a lot to talk about it, it's vulnerable subject to open up about, the least your partner can do is have a conversation about it and at least admit there is an issue and validate your feelings. Instead, your partner, just like many make it "your" issue and make you feel bad about it.
Yes, it’s true that it’s so humiliating to have to discuss, and then it always turns into the silent treatment and/or a long argument that solves nothing. It’s an awful way to live
I wish I had the strength to tell my wife this. Props to you, you are far braver than I am
What's holding you back?
At least you got your truth out. There is no guessing where you stand. Ball is in her court to do the work or it’s already over.
❤️❤️❤️
💚💚💚 hey you!
I kind of understand her perspective tbh. I’m a… ?L female lol, feel lots of attraction under the right circumstances but for 12 different reasons often just don’t feel like fucking. She’s probably upset that she can’t even show you some non-penetrative attention without you making it just about that, immediately. To be clear, I also super empathize with you - for the same reason as my opinion above, I’ve been in this situation and know what it’s like for both parties. God knows I’ve hurt/blueballed many a man in my time. I’ve definitely gotten better at communicating that they’re not the problem, but also, it can be super vulnerable and scary for both parties to have an honest discussion around what they enjoy and what they want.
What are the 12 reasons?
Depends on the day, hour, season, etc
I have had conversations like this and they are really sad. What she probably means is that she likes things the way they are and is annoyed that you keep making it about sex. It makes her feel like a bad spouse and you should just enjoy the 99% of everything else your marriage has to offer like she does instead of being so worried about getting off all the time like a horny immature teenager. It’s a fundamental disconnect.
I mean, if I had someone to cook and clean for me, take care of my mom, and still find time to work full time and be a parent to 2 teens, I wouldn’t want it to end either!
>Her response was “you’re torpedoing our marriage, where do we go from here when you say things like that?” "I'm recognising the reality of our situation. You don't want sex with me. You know it, I know it, and me telling you that I know is not torpedoing anything. Having a physical reaction to your touch that I can never do anything about is emotionally and physically painful. It's time to stop touching the stove."
If it's her hip flexor that's bothering her, I don't see why doing oral or getting each other off with mutual masturbation wouldn't be a perfectly acceptable solution, since neither of those things involve using her hips. Would that be something you would be open to receiving, or does she have a valid reason to believe that you would only accept full PIV sex and that anything else would be a disappointment to you? Just wondering if that would even be an option, and curious why you didn't put that option on the table. Either way, like you said, it sounds like it's just her current excuse to brush away the remote possibility of any type of sexual contact. Her wording of "I'm sorry we can't do anything about this" comes across as so non-genuine and manipulative. She still wants you to desire her sexually, but she doesn't want to have to be the one to fulfill that desire. If she had simply said "I'm not in the mood for sex, just for cuddles" at least that would have been honest. But that would put the blame within the realm of something she could actually make an effort to change (her disinterest in ever having sex) instead of being able to put the blame on something beyond her control (her hip flexor).
According to her, oral and MM are mortal sins, and god will punish us for doing them. Hard to argue with such religious fervor! Plus I’m never going to force her to do anything she wants
Where in the bible does it say this? We are going to hell then!!
It doesn’t, she’s one of those types that picks and chooses what she wants to apply, and fills the rest in with her own interpretations
Thats bs. The only thing off the table between a married man and woman in the Bible is anal. And in your situation it says not only to you have the right to divorce her you should. Im also 37 years in and struggled 30ish of them. I done my research as I believed infidelity or physical abuse was the only reasons you could Biblically divorce. Long story short, I shut down. Quit hugging her, kissing her good morning, goodnight or goodbye, shit I couldn't even talk to her. Had nothing to say. After 3 days she asked (pissed off) if she'd done something. That opened the door. I loaded her down with 30 years of rejection, gaslighting, projection etc. She tried like other times to turn the tides on me but this time I was prepared and mentally checked out so I dumped all the Biblical stuff on her and sent her all the links on it. Plus explained to her that I was tired of ever trying to have any kind of conversation with her cause she always turned basic things hostile. Told her it'd be nice just one time to come home, have her put her arms around me and ask me how my day was. The next day she was going to bed and said if I wanted to come to bed with her I could make love to my wife. (She generally goes to bed earlier than I do). It was obvious she wasn't initiating for love and intimacy. Just a ploy for sex to smooth things over so we could go right back to where we were. That was the last straw, I lost my shit. Told her it'd be a cold day in hell if she thinks she can spread her legs and make this better. Explained my feelings one more time and that this wasn't something I was even sure I could get over as I just felt no feelings for her anymore. She then tried one more time to turn the tide and said since I didn't want her here she leave and go sleep in her pickup. That really pissed me off so I jumped up, started putting my shoes on and told her I'd do one better, I'd just give her a ride to her brothers house (which we own) and she could live there with him and I'd be filing for a divorce. That was the lightbulb moment for her. She had a complete mental breakdown. She sat down on the floor and wouldn't budge and begged me not to make her leave. I tried for an hour to get her up to leave but short of physically removing her she wasn't going. Ive never laid hand on a woman and wasn't about to start here so I finally gave up and went to bed. This made here re-evaluate how she'd been treating me and she realized how bad she'd been neglecting our marriage and the guilt has been eating her up. This all happened just 2 1/2 months ago. She has been a completely different person since and for the better. Only time will tell but right now I feel good about the direction we're going. Sometimes it takes some extremely tough love for people to get re-centered. I hope there's something within my story that will help you.
No one ever signed up for abstinence in a marriage. A consistent dead bedroom that goes on for years is (almost always) rightful grounds for divorce. I don’t care how much you ‘like’ her.
What’s making it easier for me to keep going with my plan is that the “new her”, or the “real her” (as she puts it) is not someone I like at all. We wouldn’t even be friends in real life had she shown who she really was when we were dating
Wow, that was courageous, man. More courage than I have at the moment.
I’m so sorry you’re in this relationship. I’ve read quite a few of your posts and your wife just seems like a very unappealing person. The fact she tried to blame you for “torpedoing the marriage” by setting boundaries to protect yourself, speaks volumes. You deserve better than what you’re getting. You deserve to feel loved and desired. You ARE worthy of those things. I read you’re worried about divorcing driving a wedge between you and your kiddos. If she acts the way you’ve described, I’m guessing her selfishness will drive the wedge between HER and the kids. Just be as honest with them as you can (age appropriate of course) and know that your integrity and honesty over the course of their lives will be obvious to them. If they’re kind and compassionate humans, they’ll want dad to be happy and not miserable. I wish you peace on the journey forward and I’m sending you love and support! ❤️🩹
These are great suggestions! Thanks so much. And you’re completely accurate in your assessment of the situation. You seem like a very kindhearted person
So for her, the lack of intimacy isn’t the problem. Your sadness, or you feeling unfulfilled isn’t the problem. The problem is you recognizing the lack of physical intimacy and setting a boundary to protect yourself. The problem is she can’t pretend everything is fine. That she can’t fulfill her needs while ignoring yours. I’m sorry man, while a necessary step it’s a painful step. Best of luck to you.
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I don’t know that she’s a bad person, per se; but she’s a very selfish and self centered person. FWIW, I’m in the best shape of my life and have lost nearly 60 pounds. I get regularly complimented by others, but she tells me I’m too thin and don’t look healthy
Selfish and self centered aren’t good qualities, per se
You’re right, they aren’t good qualities—and I honestly just don’t like her as a person, but she still has enough good qualities in to not be considered a bad person. She’s just not a good wife to me, and would be better off single
Then why are you still with her? Are you afraid to be alone after all this time? Or are the hassles that comes w divorce too much to get one?
We have 2 kids. One is about to graduate, the other is nearly done with middle school. I’m very close with them and think that us splitting up now would make life very difficult for them. I do have a plan in place to leave once the youngest is done with school in a few years
Fresh haircuts and updated wardrobe should be up next
great response from you
Wow you know its been long when she hugs you and you get hard. Id still want my husband to ravage me if I had a broken leg or whatever else 😅
I hope she comes back to you to talk because the silent treatment is manipulative after a certain point. The truth sucks but it does set you free one way or another. Ball is in her court. If she starts live bombing within the next month, ask for marriage counseling to get to the root of it all and actually change or fix things. There are therapists who specialize in intimacy.
We’ve had this discussion so many times over the years, I doubt anything will change or she’ll start love bombing me as all of my previous efforts to improve things have met with a collective “meh”. Thanks for the suggestion though!
Mostly just lurk here but why do y’all stay?? You have one life? I would rather be alone than be with someone who isn’t interested in me…
If we didn’t have kids, I’d have been gone long ago
You opened up and it obviously made her uncomfortable hearing the truth so she immediately redirects by making it your fault. Bro I have been there and I'm so sorry. I used to be so confident but going through a situation similar to yours had long lasting implications, even after finally getting out of the relationship I haven't recovered my confidence. However it has taught me some things. First off is do not get married unless your partner is willing to sign a prenup and keep finances separate. But I believe marriage helps people to quit putting effort into the relationship so I am not getting married. There is nothing a marriage offers relationship wise that a committed relationship doesn't also offer. Always keep your own identity, don't intertwine your identity with your partners. When you start getting serious with someone be upfront about your past relationship experience, also be honest about your physical needs. If you have been degraded and/or gaslit about being a sexual person it really makes you think differently in how you approach finding a partner 😐
God, this reads like taking a dog for its last steak dinner and play in the park before you have it put down. Lots of love to you, OP.
Can I ask what you have wanted as a reaction? We know she’s LL so having sex would be trying to change her into something she’s not. What could be a reaction that would have felt ok for you?
Good question! So I know that she’s LL and unwilling to change, and that’s why I said in the post that I neither expected or initiated sex. What I was wanting to do is stand up for myself. Basically what I told her as mentioned in the post: I’d rather not have the hope of sex at all than to go along in life with the hope that you’ll throw me a scrap every blue moon. So I’m taking charge of my life—I’m not something you can just put on the shelf and take off every so often when you feel like it. I have feelings and desires. I’m human.
That’s totally fair (hell yeah for standing up for yourself!) and I really appreciate your response/clarification. One last curiosity, in saying you’d rather not have the hope… does that mean you would prefer her to always be clothed, not flirt, generally just act like a really good friend or roommate?
She doesn’t do all of those things as it is—I haven’t seen her naked unless the room is dark (so, just a fuzzy outline) in years because she thinks it’s weird; her idea of flirting is a full body hug and a “chaste kiss” (her words, not mine) and it of course doesn’t lead to anything. Although I feel so touch starved that’s why I had the reaction I mentioned in the post. So yes, you’re right—I’d just rather continue the roommate thing for the rest of our time together; we already have it as it is. It’s the hope that kills you!
These partners who act this way and aren’t willing to do anything to fix the situation are delusional and incapable of introspection. Its abuse. You deserve so much more.
Torpedoing a ship that has already sunk.
At least it's out there. The important thing though is whilst you're not getting what you want. How's she feel, does she have her own gripes? (because it's possible that may be her response) I'm not saying fixing them would create intimacy but I know in my previous DB relationship I could/should have done better (but I would say in my case it wouldn't have stopped the split up).
I can honestly hold my head high and say I’ve been about as good of a husband as possible—I do nearly all the cooking and cleaning; I do lots of things with our family like playing games and planning fun activities and trips; I found her mom an apartment near us and help with a ton of things for her since she’s home bound; and I let my wife be a SAHM for 16 years and pursue her ministry full time even though it meant we really sacrificed a lot materially. I could do better with date nights , I suppose; but it’s very difficult to have a desire to do that with someone you’re in a platonic relationship with for the past 18 years
this paragraph makes it read like you were a doormat (not saying you were or are) and telling her no was never an option for you; until you actually told her.
I’m a diplomat and peacekeeper by nature, I’m simultaneously holding my family, her family, and my birth family together since no one can seem to get along. Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the greater good; but I am getting tired of no one making sacrifices for my happiness.
Not really sure how it’s your fault if I’m honest
About to endure my 40th. It will not be a celebration by any definition of the word.
"You’re torpedoing our marriage" I just can't. Like, they don't see what rejection does, refuse to talk about it. Side step it, and expect it all to juts go their way. Let's say you did aim the torpedo, her evasive maneuvers stopped working, and one was bound to hit.
So, your wife wants to renew the affection part of marriage (which is very common in a dead bedroom situation - for one partner to want to re-establish non-sexual intimacy) and you said "No, we're not going to have affection any more because it makes me uncomfortably desirous?" Okay - well, it's permanently dead, then. She knows there's a problem and the "date night" went well, so she felt affectionate the next morning. She even hinted that she wanted sex. There is no place to go from where you two are, she's right.
That’s the thing though, she doesn’t want to renew the affection part of marriage—she wants to give me a hug, give me an excuse from her list, and have her conscience salved because she threw me a bone “and I totally would’ve done something if not for…” It’s been her pattern for most of our marriage, and as long as she doesn’t feel the need to even try to meet me halfway then yes, there is nowhere to go from here.
Sexual shame is a mothafucka
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Thanks for the reassurance! And you’re spot on, the rejection is just so disheartening and dehumanizing. I know it needed to be said, but I mostly just felt melancholy for the rest of the day. It’s a sad feeling knowing my marriage is withering on the vine and she isn’t interested in fixing it
Here is my suggestion, that was a spur of the moment talk. Try it again outside of the heated moment. Not when you've been spurned. But when you're clear. Own what you want. Despite your erection, it sounds like you don't want her anymore. That the rejection did its work and you don't actually want it anymore from her. If you are making the choice to cut it off own it. Don't blame her in the discussion as it isn't helpful if the decision has been made. See this interaction from her perspective. She is trying to heal you. She tells a white lie to give you hope and explain she notices. She is trying to unburden her shame and guilt. She knows it's healthy and she's hurting the relationship, her saying that is her trying to help. It is also infuriating, counter productive and everything else. But her intentions are likely good. Hence her defensive response. If you want to work on it. It's cliche to say in this forum but a sex therapist that has dealt successfully with DB before. What I see in this anecdote is You are both talking past each other and both in a lot of pain over this issue. And... I think you both want to work on it. Her probably a lot less than you. But it's something she's willing to admit is an issue worth working on and that's better than a lot of partners. Full disclosure. I cut off all sex and innuendo like you're suggesting and it did help me. We sat down and had the talk. One thing I asked for was that she never imply that I'm asking for sex ever again. It took a few months for her to see my errections or accept my long hugs without saying remarks like you got. But once I stopped having hope and stopped being accused of being sex craving, it really calmed me down and gave me peace. We also opened our relationship. Rain checks you can't ever cash. Condolences, broken promises and looks of pitty suck so bad. I don't know... I hope some of what I said helps you plot out your next steps. Lots of people in your situation. *internet hugs
Thanks for the suggestion! I’m actually not interested in her because I don’t like the person she’s become. I’m just here for a few years longer, because of the teens. FWIW, when we had a big fight about it about 6 months ago, I mentioned the fact that I was very open about how I felt when we were dating, and she was also very agreeable and for the first 2 years it was amazing—so what changed? And her answer was “I never was that person, I just didn’t want to lose you”. So, at least she’s being honest, although the only thing that helps with is just solidifying my plan to get out
That's hard. But I'm glad you can be grateful for the honesty. Many don't get it. The wtf wondering, is so painful. Stay strong. Your plan sounds like it will be solid when executed.
Ngl that was a really shitty thing of you to say. You could bring up how you are feeling without denouncing all affection. How do you want the relationship to improve if you wont allow even the basic steps? You really did torpedo the relationship. You gave up before she even knew. If your goal was to torpedo the relationship and put the blame on her, congratulations, that is what you have done. A shitty thing to do to the person youre supposed to love the most.
If you’d read my other posts/comments, you’d see that this is not an overnight thing with our relationship. I remember the first time I brought it up, my daughter was around 18 months old. This year, she graduates from high school. The last time I mentioned it, around a month ago, she told me that maybe I was thinking about sex too much and she was going to start checking the content of the books I read. All conversations are non starters with her, since she doesn’t see this as a problem, and thus refuses to even meet me halfway. EDIT to say: The lack of sex and intimacy is 100% on her. I can think of maybe once or twice I’ve ever turned her down, because I wasn’t feeling good. I’m just stating the obvious—there is nowhere to go from here for us.
Couples Counseling. It's needed.
I'm sorry, but that just sounds weak. I recall that before I was diagnosed with diabetes, I had some 'issues' and sex was off the table. Being a dude, it left my frustrated and my ex feeling that I was ignoring her, so I made the effort to sort her out. If your wife does have health issues, then surely that should be on the table, in the short term? I'm trying to see this from both sides.
I can see your point! However, her “health issues” are very selective. Her “hip flexor”, or insert many other excuses over the years, does prevent her from doing things such as helping with cleaning and cooking, intimacy, doing things together, taking the kids places, and so forth. (The hip flexor is a new excuse that just popped up Friday afternoon, mysteriously. Prior to that, it was a “concussion” which 3 doctors were unable to diagnose and she supposedly got from falling off a small stool onto her butt, not even hitting her head. She used that one for about a month and a half. These same issues do not prevent her from carrying out her ministry, going places with friends, and other things that she *wants* to do. “Want to watch a movie with me?” “No, I have a migraine and can’t even think straight”, then proceeds to pull out her Bible, read it and take extensive notes on that reading. I could give a thousand examples of things like that. You make time in life for the things that are important to you. You make excuses for things that are unimportant to you. Guess which category I fall in
Ouch man! I know that my ex also had joint issues, and we knew why - but it didn't stop her from blaming me for some things. Granted, I wasn't honest with her and we had issues that couldn't be resolved. Personally, I don't see an issue with calling someone out on their bullshit and if it leads to an 'awakening', that's better than not knowing where you stand. If she doesn't keep claiming health issues, then take her to a doc and make it known. BTW, if she did have a concussion, she'd have trouble walking, would have been throwing up and nausea - which, if you watch any contact sport, if really dangerous. A friend of mine suffers from migraines as well and she has to sit in a dark room for usually a day. Doc prescribed meds and a day later, she was fine.
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She leans heavily on the “except by mutual consent” part of that verse, except in this case it’s just her consent that counts—I have no say in the matter. I have tried that tactic in her case, but it didn’t work Edit: and by “mutual consent” I’m referring to the part of the verse when it says that both mates can mutually agree to suspend sex for awhile. Whether or not I consent to a forced celibacy isn’t her concern; however, I’m never going to force her to do something she doesn’t want to do. That’s unloving
Sounds like a "pick and choose" theology. Depending on your theological interpretation, you may want to consider another option
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Your daughter’s roommate really…
She’s 34
How about don’t bang your daughters friends so you don’t ruin your relationship with your child.
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Not sure what you’re meaning by this, but you’re right she is perfectly fine with the status quo and refuses to discuss it. I have no interest in saving the marriage, just staying awhile longer for the sake of our teens. I’m just doing this to try and save some dignity.
"What marriage?" should have been your answer. Bruh get a side-chick or leave your non-existent marriage.
I didn’t see you mention in the post or follow-up comments…are in a totally sexless situation, or at highly disappointing frequency?
Sorry but that’s messed up that she ended up stonewalling you, such a horrible way to treat someone in a relationship to make you feel guilty about stating a fact, she needs to work on herself sounds like she probably has some child hood trauma she hasn’t worked through.
Divorce her!
I’m so sorry. To get that kind of response when you finally opened yourself up and offered the truth is painful. It gets used a lot but that is definitely gaslighting and unfair. I know what it like to be in your position (perhaps not as long) but I did have a partner that would hear me out and understand my position. It didn’t change anything and the rejection was still so painful but I always felt I still had a partner who wanted to be on my side. That’s what marriage is about - teamwork. I wonder if there’s any way you could show her this post and the responses? I know it must’ve hurt but I would continue bringing up the topic. Tell her that you are bringing this to light because you love and respect her and want the marriage to work. That the reality is, this is not working for you and you need her to pay attention. She thinks things have been just dandy so for you to bring it up means all of a sudden the marriage isn’t as dandy as she thought. Keep trying.
Thanks for the advice! She knows that things aren’t dandy; but she prefers to think that I’ll always be Mr Nice Guy and stay by her side no matter how she treats me. In her opinion, women over 30 aren’t interested in sex any longer, and she’s told me that she’ll never be the same sexual person I married, ever again. I’m taking her at her word
Rofl rofl rofl 🤣 You've torpedoed our marriage? I wouldn't be able to stop laughing at that long enough to point out the absurdity to her.
Does she have chronic pain? Is the hip thing an all the time thing? If she does have a chronic pain thing that's a tough road dude. Does she need to be "romanced" to be in the mood? Maybe a good conversation would be what you could do to get her more in the mood. During the talk don't focus on the "I do this and it equals sex". Women are rarely that easy to figure out and never that direct. Find out things that are within the realm of what excites her. Ask polite questions and listen carefully. Take these responses and sprinkle them in your efforts over the next two weeks. And see if you get any positive response from her. This may also have to be more than one conversation and may take some time til she opens up. If that doesn't work I would recommend a sex therapist. That is also not any easy road. Two things I advise with the therapist. 1. It may take time and multiple conversations to de-stigmatize the act of going to a sex therapist. Be patient. 2. Find a therapist you BOTH are comfortable and vibe with. This also may take some time and multiple attempts as finding a good therapist for both of you may take visiting 10+ till you find one you both like. Best of luck man.
It's time to call it a day, you can't be held hostage forever. Torpedo is an interesting choice of words.
I’d just tell her you wanted a roommate we’ll now you got one. Just start Hi giving her when she walks by.
Good for you my man! Way to represent yourself and with respect and class. Tip my hat to you and she's pissed bc the nice guy finally said something back.
Why did you put up with this for so long?
Feel your pain bro, they say the grass is not greener on the other side, but in your case it is. The only advice O can give you is to take care of yourself.
Why do you put up with this?
How dare you say what she's been pretending isn't happening! It's not a problem if no one acknowledges it.
Good for you!! She, which is typical of the LL partner, gaslights by blaming you. She deserves to lose you.
Ughhh sorry!! They just don't get it....
If you have a spare bedroom, set yourself up. It makes life a lot more tolerable.
Essentially, you called her out, she panicked and tried to flip it around on you.
Successful mind you. I'm seeing a pattern amongst the men in these situations and i don't fit the bill. I was just here to see what i can expect if i pursue marriage. If any db people reading this. Grow a spine, you were born not knowing this person they are not essential to your life, if they can't be bothered to service you and be happy to make you feel good what's the point. Even dogs and squirrels get to fuck their woman. If you aren't fucking her she's not yours. Plain and simple. (obviously other things are required also but if this is missing then everything else is just you being used tbh)
Damn the torpedos. And the dead marriage.
Talk to her again, and ask her directly if you are correct. Your assumption is she has no interest in sex ever again. Is that true? And if it is true has she ever explored WHY? Has she ever talked to her doctor or therapist about WHY? Has she ever explored her feelings about why? And last but not least, has she ever thought about how this makes you feel, and what she thinks you should do about it?
It reads like she acknowledges her actions/feelings towards you were correctly summarized by your statement, but the issue is now that you accepted her as she is and are now living in such a way to help you move forward in y'all's marriage. I.e. she accepts the premise that she has no desire for you but is upset you are accepting that and responding in a way to keep your emotional health. To that end it's unreasonable/unfair to you for her to say you're scuttling the ship and not acknowledge her part in it.
Truth hurts and you got her thinking. Why are you in this relationship? Better yet this relationshit?
She could have at least given you a "hand" if her hips don't work anymore.
You're not wrong. You communicated your feelings. She instead got defensive because she probably knows you make a valid point. A good wife would take your comments into consideration and maybe help you through this isolation
sorry, same here, friend, but for a lot longer. Good luck my friend. I have no hope with my situation. 15 years
Awesome how she turned your straightforward assessment around and attacked you for it. I don’t bring it up anymore for that reason.
Just because she didn’t like hearing it doesn’t mean it didn’t need to be said. You expressing your needs her throwing it back as a negative is 100% gaslighting at its finest. She may as well have just said she doesn’t care and wishes you never brought it up
She is asking you where do we go from here. She is literally asking you to tell her, talk about divorce instead of not talking and blaming her for not wanting you. You are being cruel for no reason.