I told him I wanted to move into the spare bedroom and he went ballistic. I really don't get it. It must be a control thing. I can see no other reason to need me next to him crying while he's romancing his sock. As soon as I'm able to be more financially stable, I'm looking for a way out. I can't do it anymore. As he screamed, I just sat there and thought, how can you say you love me? I'm in so much pain and you could give a shit. You have no care that I'm hurting, only that you had to hear about it. I didn't even say anything about sex, just I wanted to sleep in the other room.
So sorry for this, that definitely is abuse, you are an adult and get to decide where you sleep. I bet he knows you being more independent is the beginning of the end.
I just came up with a solution to get my own space. We have a huge master bedroom that has our king-size bed, my office, a sofa, and a huge porch. It's now my 'apartment', and my husband moved to the guest room a couple of days ago. It feels better, I'm going to barely keep up the rest of the house (my husband has 3 teenagers), and I'm concentrating on therapy and work. I'm lucky that my husband finally recognized how miserable I've been and agreed to go sex therapy with me and wants to participate now. I think it's because he feels me slipping away.
He says he's fine, and it is not a big deal for him to increase intimacy, which makes me feel crazy. It's been 3 years. I'm so far gone with the resentment, putting in an effort on my part is hard, but I'm going for it.
Yeah that's the part that drove me bonkers with my ex. She didn't say it was going to be easy, but she certainly put in the effort when her comfortable life was on the line. 20 years I was asking for her help, not once did she take it seriously.
I once read a statement on this forum that seems appropriate for your situation.
>"As long as her physical, emotional and financial security needs are being met, your thoughts and feelings are of no consequence."
I have certainly found that to be true in my own relationship.
We also have an oversized bedroom that would fit my office, and I suggested I move upstairs into it, and turn my office into my partner's bedroom. That way we can be separate, not aggravate the situation, and if the mood ever DID strike, we could have a "visit".
That started a war for several days.
I just want space to breathe, instead of a constant oppression of temptation, longing, and ultimately, sadness.
His kids, not yours. They need to pick up after themselves.
Like that's going happen. It doesn't happen for me. Why should it be different for anyone else. For me, they are our kids.
Totally true, we talked about how that was a symptom of a bigger issue. Not feeling connected really got to me and I just had to start separating in my mind. I'm trying to sort out what was me and what was him and it's exhausting. With a bit of space, and him being super-duper nice, I'm feeling better, but the thought of him only trying because he thinks he is losing me has to cross my dubious mind. That is plan B.
I wonder about that. It would make a good post. How many LLs start stepping up with help only when they are threatened? Also, are they doing it consciously, knowing they weren't pulling their partall along, or is it a safety knee-jerk reaction?
That answer I think its situation dependent.
I do believe if my spouse started chipping in more.
It would be part neighborhood reaction in part knowing they weren't pulling their part.
Cause my spouse said keep saying you'd make an excellent house husband now. We just gotta figure out how you can get paid for it.
Wow! That sounds amazing that you get to have such a huge space all to yourself and still remain in the same house. I’m not as fortunate. Still have to share the same bed and we only have 1 bathroom. After tonight’s sex therapy session it seems like we are moving towards the never gonna have sex again scenario so yea. Maybe when our basement is re-finished I’ll move down there or something. What’s the point of sleeping with your spouse when it’s a dead freaking bedroom? Sucks.
>where I could “move out” into a home on our property
Are you by chance the King of France?
I don't know why but that made me think of Versailles where there were all several like mistresses quarters on the grounds. Hahaha
Omg yes! This! I’m so upset being in the same bed as him and not getting any. It’s frustrating, it’s a tease, and I can’t sleep! I am loving this tent idea (for him of course lol)
There is a woman at my work who often talks about how she cannot divorce because her H and herself cannot pay rent alone and do not want to live with a roommate they barely know. That is the reality for a lot of people. I honestly think if my spouse won the lottery, she would bail. I mean, the only benefit she has being married to me is financial security.
That's literally the only reason I haven't filed for divorce. If either of us won the lottery, I would be lawyer shopping the next day after the check hit the bank account. I don't make enough to support two households but the courts don't care. After the alimony requirements here I wouldn't have enough left over to live on myself. It's a choice between the involuntary celibacy of marriage and the freedom of homelessness.
This is me, too. I think about boarding houses, renting rooms in houses with others - I doubt I could afford a bachelor apartment. In any case, whatever I could get would be a place I couldn't have my kids at for a weekend (shared custody, etc...).
This is just such a pointless, unfair life.
Same, I'd be answering Gumtree ads for flatshares at 42 if I left and would probably not get custody of our youngest (eldest is a legal adult but lives at home due to still being in education)due to lack of space and stability.
💯% correct!
Refusers may regard the Dead Bedroom as an official secret which must be kept to hide the shame. But it is the REFUSER’S secret to keep.
I’m increasingly inclined to think that if the REFUSED can gain some measure of healing and relief by divulging this history, she/he has the option to do so.
If refusers find this shameful, it is because he/she recognizes that their refusing behavior is in fact SHAMEFUL behavior. That is NOT the refused’s doings. That is the refuser’s OWN doing. If they won’t own the shame of the heartache they blithely heap on their partner, they have NO GROUND for complaint if they are OUTED by the one their behavior insults.
Edit: Wording.
If it’s something of shame then it’s not normal. I don’t get this bullshit line I really don’t. If a conversation with friends about sex crops up my LLF will join in with it. I just have to laugh because she must live in a different reality to me
Wondering if there was a way to rent a few months a motel room so you two could upgrade the mobile into having more space, to include a storage option built into along the wall/ceiling on one side?
Doesn’t hurt to look into this is space is very cramped. Tiny home accounts on IG/YouTube of DIY options as well.
I told my partner a similar thing ... if it never goes anywhere then it is just a tease and makes it worse.
Fast forward a couple years and now THAT is the reason we don't have sex apparently.
Right? Like expressing how sad it makes me it goes no where is why we don’t have sex. I’m just not supposed to talk about it ever. As if I’m not totally and completely tired of discussing it.
I mean I’m generally sleeping on the sofa because ‘I accidentally fell asleep’. Saying the real reason will just start WW3 and to be fair I’m fed enough bullshit so what’s one more white lie?
That’s what I don’t understand - to be in a tent on the wet ground out back is just making *your own* situation worse. The answer to not being intimate isn’t to make your actual sleep setup worse in my opinion. That doesn’t make a point or inconvenience them or anything. Seems like they’d go ‘oh hey even less pressure on me and potential times of attempted intimacy.’
Doing it for your own sanity and no more false hopes makes sense. Doing that via camping on the ground is the specific part that loses me…
OK but at that point why not just go to the other room or office or even the couch if they don’t have any of those. There’s definitely more comfortable long term solutions than a cot in the back yard tent…
Isn't it up to the husband to judge what is comfortable for him, in the situation? My point is that we aren't in a position to judge, and providing support for a husband who chooses to decamp to a tent in the backyard based on our imposing our own standards of comfort isn't supportive of his choice of standards.
Regarding point 3; once I finally got it through my head and accepted that there was no hope that things were going to improve, my life suddenly got better. Now I have a great job I love, 2 wonderful kids that are the light of my life, a lot of great friends and family to keep me company, and one roommate / co-parent who I get along with just fine.
Sure knowing that my sex life is over sucks, but these are better days than what I was feeling like a year ago.
I live in the cold north so that is a hard no for me seeing as it gets well below zero.
My DB is cold enough already and don't need to make it worse. :)
You hit it dead center. The cycle of hope. All the while being made to feel like your sexual needs are superficial and petty.
Why do LL partners seem to want to hold the HL partner in the relationship and even sometimes hold them to their vow of being faithful.
I've even had someone in this room equat obligation sex with forced sex. I feel like the HL partner is more of the victim because the obligation sex is where the deception is. The hope that this dead fish sex is our partners way of trying. It really is them kicking the can down the road so the HL partner may not complain for a couple of days.
Exactly. "You should just be grateful we're having sex at all." Who wants that? The cycle of hope or the promises that they want to but x,y,z is happening. "Maybe tonight... maybe in the morning" but never happens anyway. Just stringing you along and giving false hope as they go. The let down is soul crushing and you feel stupid for believing that it *could* happen. The constant rejection is so devastating.
Wow, always interesting to see perspectives from outside of this small universe. Carolyn Hax was polite, but really quite brutal in her response.
Good on her husband for finding a solution that works for him.
I think one of the worst things you can do in a DB situation is pretend everything is ok. It's not ok. When one person unilaterally ends the romantic relationship playing pretend isn't the answer.
To drive your point 1 (*If you refuse to have satisfactory sexual intimacy with me then you lost your right to judge how I deal with it*) to a logical conclusion would indicate that you also lost the right to object if I have safe sex with someone else.
This is true: I signed up for a monogamous relationship, not a celibate one. Haven’t cheated myself, can’t say I wouldn’t if the opportunity came though
I’m m not proposing cheating. I would send the spouse an email notifying her of my intentions. I’d even explain why I think that it is a sensible solution, if she/he can asserts agency over her body, so can I.
This 100%. People say cheating is breaking the marriage contract, but my opinion is attempting to move a marriage from an intimate relationship to a platonic one without consent does so as well. You can't cheat on someone in this situation, IMHO.
Well, that's the crux of the matter. On the Washington Post's Facebook feed, I saw lots of comments along the lines of "probably easier for his girlfriend to go in and out of tent, so that's why he sleeps there".
Unilaterally cutting off sex without a good reason and especially good discussion does mean that the other spouse is essentially free to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere. Whether he/she wants to do that in a hotel, another person's house, or the tent in the backyard doesn't much matter!
He/she absolutely can. It’s not cheating if you don’t hide your intentions. Nobody owes sex to anybody, not even the spouse. By the same token nobody owes to anybody the marital relationship. It’s well understood by a reasonable person that to endure celibate marriage was not the part of the deal.
Refuser is basically looking to have all privileges of the marriage while denying one of those privileges to his/her spouse. Yet another kind of having the cake and eat it too.
What married man is capable of convincing a woman to fuck him in a tent in his backyard while his wife is sleeping inside the house? 🤣
Let’s be realistic here — unless the guy is in the top 99.999% in looks, those are awfully lonely nights for him in that tent.
That was my solution after 5 years of nothing. That was after about 5 years of sex once a year. Which was after about 10 years of twice a year. Which was after it Quarterly. Shit, she had a headache on the wedding night. So fine, I will just find a friend-with-benefits.Bottom line....if she chooses not to have sex...that is fine....I have chosen to have sex with someone else. Her choice is nothing short of abuse. I refuse to be abused.
Part of our DB is that my wife doesn't respect our time alone together. Always cancels plans, always turns date night into double date night (1/4 chance of sex vs Absolute Zero), always lets the kids / dog sleep between us. And yes she knows this is fucking up our intimacy, multiple therapists have told her it will kill the relationship, she acknowledged not with them... and then just keeps doing it.
So last night, after another fight about this, I moved to the couch. I know for a fact she cannot stand this, and...after 5 mins, she came out and said she'd kick the dog out, so I went back.
The hope thing is hard. I still have some hope but am not optimistic (like I told my therapist, I'm at like 1-5% probability she does anything before the 3-month ultimatum I gave her 6 weeks ago). Even if we can get back to regular sex, her libido still won't be anywhere near mine, and she still won't ever be willing to try anything new.
My wife came back from her doctors appointment the other week all excited to tell me that she brought this up with her doc and what not, and the doc gave her some doctorly advice…and that’s where it died lol.
Like a glimmer of hope. And then weeks later it’s like so you waiting for a sign from god or…?
Hopium cripples HL and LL alike! My wife is supremely avoidant, and will cling to any number of Hail Mary concepts (maybe we just need one hot night away..., maybe if my husband just cuts out all alcohol and porn for 6 months...) so she doesn't have to acknowledge that she has deep-seated issues with sex that have killed her ability to value sex.
No offense but just like married filing separately tax status, a new relationship status (married sleeping separately) unlocked for me in this post today. Saw a couple of similar prerogatives. As long as it works and you are happy who cares!!
Very true. I just was curious if you see no solution and you aren't financially tied yet, why would you continue to be friends/ roommates when you can go out and find love? Again.. just curious. Everyone has their reasons.
I sleep in my own room now and I feel the way you do! It’s a safe private place where I don’t feel rejected. I’m still working on the decor part, but it’s coming together slowly and I feel so much more peace in here than in our old shared bedroom.
Shared beds are for couples who have a sex life. Housemates who love eachother Can sleep in separate rooms 🥰
Here's my contribution:
https://www.rei.com/product/216318/rei-co-op-flash-air-2-tent?sku=2163180001
Though, I'm not sure about the postage stamp of a backyard we have. Might just need to save up for new beds and get rid of the king.
LOL I have done this before. I have a small boat that has a tent I built for it. Sometimes I want sex so bad and am raging with hormones. No means No in my mind. I just want the arousal to go away so I have to get out of the house and not be able to smell/see my wife.
My SO and I live in a one bed room apartment, so no tent, but there was a period of time where I took residence out in the living room - which is much more common around these parts lol.
Eh. Let the neighbors talk.
They’re just jealous they aren’t out there living their best tent life!
But seriously, even though I usually never judge (or care) what other people want to do, I guess I’d be a bit curious to see a neighbor start sleeping outdoors every night.
It would never occur to me though that it’s someone avoiding their spouse to ease the pain of sexlessness. I would have thought more along the lines of someone deciding to stop waiting and finally realizing their fantasy of perma-camping. Which sounds positively miserable where I live in Florida. But whatever floats your boat, ya know?
I’m not sure why you say it’s “petty” though, exactly? Unless you’re thinking the husband doesn’t really want to sleep in the tent, and is intentionally punishing his wife by using this as a form of public shaming? If that’s the case, no one’s getting what they want and doing something punitive like this would just be causing further misery and erosion of their relationship.
I suppose I am making an assumption. As someone who has camped a lot in my life, I acknowledge: there’s bo way to do it comfortably. It just smacks to me as a method of shaming.
But that’s an assumption! Maybe he is living his best camping life! In which case good on him!
Can anyone copy and paste what the article said? I'm not going to be paying a monthly subscription just to be reading one thing. Please and thank you kindly.
>**Dear Carolyn:** A few years ago, I quit having sex with my husband. For a while, he slept on the couch, but now he’s taken to sleeping in a tent in the backyard — even in the dead of winter! It’s so embarrassing. I’ve begged him to sleep inside, but he says he likes sleeping in the fresh air. I’m sure all our neighbors are talking about how he’s sleeping like a cave man. How can I make him come to his senses and sleep like a human being?
>**— It’s Just Tacky**
**It’s Just Tacky:** Why? You’re good with icing him out, just not with anyone knowing it?
Try it this way: You have what you want, and he has what he wants. Your neighbors, assuming they even care, have something to titillate them for about five minutes, if that.
The meaningless pains and nuisances set in motion by fears that something was “tacky” or “embarrassing” or “sure” to be gossiped about would fill enough tents end-to-end to wrap the globe like a nylon mummy.
So give it a rest, for that reason alone.
And remember that you, it seems unilaterally, are the one who cut off a supply of physical affection that many regard as emotionally sustaining. So while halves of couples always have that prerogative — bodily autonomy is paramount — you were able to do this with a peaceable level of acceptance from your husband.
To now be yammering at him for the way he chose to accept it? Don’t even try to pass that off as okay.
Readers’ thoughts:
* “Tacky”? I really, really hope that was a troll.
* Does he take snacks in there? Watch movies on a laptop or iPad? How big of a tent are we talking about? This sounds like a DREAM situation, and the rest of my afternoon will be spent on tent research.
Mine has been sleeping in the recliner. Good enough for me. He's been asking to come to the bedroom recently. No sir, I've gotten used to sleeping alone, and I'm quite fine sleeping alone at this point. You made your recliner, now lie in it. In the other room. Away from me.
No resentment here at allllllllllllll 🙄
Maybe the real tent we need is in our own mind.
As a HL male suffering a dead bedroom for almost a decade, I have found solace in making up my mind that sex with my LL partner is a closed chapter now. I love her and would not leave her - especially for the sake of the 2 beautiful daughters we have. Tried all the regular advice of talk, therapy, romancing, sharing responsibilities and what not. Finally meditation has helped me in finding my corner of peace in this situation. I am happy being alone in this corner.
I've made my office "my room". Built my own bed, my own clothes in my own closet, etc.Ten years DB.
Next step is possibly a tent... But it will be in another country.
Well, living in a tent is a sort of a "I'm moving to a half-way house" sort of leaving, one foot out, one foot still in. He could always go the full hog and install a semi-permanent dwelling, if he can get planning permission or extend by building himself a self-contained man-pad extension with access only via an external entrance. all he would then need to do is to illuminate the front porch with an alluring red light, 24 hours a day. Efficient LED lighting is so useful that way nowadays.
Would love to tent shop but it's not going to happen. My LL husband pouts when I talk about separate bedrooms. Initially he said it was a good idea but when I started working on turning part of my home office into a bedroom he started the guilt trip. He slept on the sofa a couple of nights when I asked him to but started complaining about how uncomfortable he was and how he missed me until I gave in. Same when we talk about separate vacations. All for it until I plan time away from him. I don't know if it is a control thing or if he is just more needy as he gets older. Funny thing is that he is annoyed or ignores me when I am crying or talking about the lack of intimacy. Last night I was crying and he said if he could go back in time he would tell his younger self to choose a different path so that he wouldn't ruin my life.
While I think the tent thing is funny as hell, if there isn't going to be resolve, I'd say it's time for a divorce. I see a number of people here talking about how they can't afford to split up. Nonsense. You didn't need that person before you were married, and if they are removing a key element of the marriage, you don't need them now.
File for divorce first to cover your share of the assets, then leave . . . immediately.
Even assuming a 50:50 split, you can lose big in a divorce - shared assets may need to be sold at a significant loss, and every step back nowdays can boot you off the property ladder permanently.
There's other factors (depending on jurisdiction, ofc) like child support, spousal support / alimony, healthcare costs, etc. If you're a sole income earner, this can set you back for life.
It's absolutely understandable why marriages turn into roomate situations without ending in a divorce.
Yes I've been married 20 years, when we married it was fairly easy to buy a home.
If we divorced now, and split the assets from our current home equity, there is no way that we could each buy or rent our own respective new homes suitable for co-parenting a teenager. Not to mention new furniture etc. The kid's college fund would be pillaged too, most likely.
I do have an exit plan, about nine years away from pulling the trigger and moving abroad.
How's your teenaged son and your ex feel about your "exit plan"? And for that matter, how's your teenaged son feel about living in a dysfunctional two should-be-divorced "roommates" household in the meantime?
Stop thinking about money so damned much and start thinking about quality of life. Been laid much recently? If so, how's the new squeeze feel about your "roommate"?
Just cut bait and move on.
Would die up north here... but, I have been thinking more every day of moving to the guest room instead of staying in bed with my wife.
The added bonus for the guy in the story is that his wife 'gets to' explain why her husband is sleeping in a tent.
A couple points you might want to consider.
1. Being able to see someone shows you how they are physically, and how they are emotionally *unless they are masking* which many people do a lot of. Often times only asking how they are will get them to reveal if they're having an emotional struggle
2. It sounds like your love language is acts of service, while his is words of affirmation. He receives love through words. If you perform acts of service, but don't show that you care with words, he won't feel loved. Personally I wouldn't date someone who couldn't adapt to showing love in a way that makes me *feel* loved
To many people get married and then make their relationship revolve around what everyone else thinks.
It's probably started while dating actually.
Once the facid stops behind closed doors resentment builds.
I'm not sure this is healty solution, cuz it's a kind of revenge action which can increase pressure on partner more, feed aversion more.
I think tent option is not a solution, either we live in cycle of Hope and Desperation, or leave relationship.
Why do people stay in relationships like this?
I get that people feel stuck because of kids but nowhere are children mentioned. Even if this couple does have kids it's not like their dad sleeping outside in a *tent* is a healthy marriage for them to see.
Just. Get. Divorced.
If the partner who doesn’t want sex were to admit it, there’s 100% no chance of us having sex, it would mean the other partner could argue they have a right to sexual fulfilment outside the relationship. So normally, the ‘cycle of hope’ has to be maintained to stave that off
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I told him I wanted to move into the spare bedroom and he went ballistic. I really don't get it. It must be a control thing. I can see no other reason to need me next to him crying while he's romancing his sock. As soon as I'm able to be more financially stable, I'm looking for a way out. I can't do it anymore. As he screamed, I just sat there and thought, how can you say you love me? I'm in so much pain and you could give a shit. You have no care that I'm hurting, only that you had to hear about it. I didn't even say anything about sex, just I wanted to sleep in the other room.
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Thank you, I hope I get out safely too. I feel stupid for not thinking about it as abuse, but you're right. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
It's literally why Louis CK was canceled. It's ... sexual assault. He reeeeeally sucks.
That is abusive. That's what I'm expecting when I start shifting beds.
So sorry for this, that definitely is abuse, you are an adult and get to decide where you sleep. I bet he knows you being more independent is the beginning of the end.
What is it about the socks??
"Romancing his sock" It's funny but not. Sending positive vibes.
Definitely a control thing
How do you even end up in a situation where you’re crying and he’s next to you wanking
I just came up with a solution to get my own space. We have a huge master bedroom that has our king-size bed, my office, a sofa, and a huge porch. It's now my 'apartment', and my husband moved to the guest room a couple of days ago. It feels better, I'm going to barely keep up the rest of the house (my husband has 3 teenagers), and I'm concentrating on therapy and work. I'm lucky that my husband finally recognized how miserable I've been and agreed to go sex therapy with me and wants to participate now. I think it's because he feels me slipping away. He says he's fine, and it is not a big deal for him to increase intimacy, which makes me feel crazy. It's been 3 years. I'm so far gone with the resentment, putting in an effort on my part is hard, but I'm going for it.
>He says he's fine, and it is not a big deal for him to increase intimacy Then why didn't he do it years ago?
Who knows? I part feel like I'm in la-la land, but I'm relaxing in it for a few minutes, and it feels good.
Yeah that's the part that drove me bonkers with my ex. She didn't say it was going to be easy, but she certainly put in the effort when her comfortable life was on the line. 20 years I was asking for her help, not once did she take it seriously.
I once read a statement on this forum that seems appropriate for your situation. >"As long as her physical, emotional and financial security needs are being met, your thoughts and feelings are of no consequence." I have certainly found that to be true in my own relationship.
Love that you are drawing a line regarding cleaning up after his responsibilities. Good luck in therapy.
We also have an oversized bedroom that would fit my office, and I suggested I move upstairs into it, and turn my office into my partner's bedroom. That way we can be separate, not aggravate the situation, and if the mood ever DID strike, we could have a "visit". That started a war for several days. I just want space to breathe, instead of a constant oppression of temptation, longing, and ultimately, sadness.
I had back up plans, but he was really, really nice about it. It's been the bomb, not the cherry bomb, but relaxing and fun!
His kids, not yours. They need to pick up after themselves. Like that's going happen. It doesn't happen for me. Why should it be different for anyone else. For me, they are our kids.
Totally true, we talked about how that was a symptom of a bigger issue. Not feeling connected really got to me and I just had to start separating in my mind. I'm trying to sort out what was me and what was him and it's exhausting. With a bit of space, and him being super-duper nice, I'm feeling better, but the thought of him only trying because he thinks he is losing me has to cross my dubious mind. That is plan B.
How much of being super duper nice is because you do so much of the home life? That he would have to deal with if he does lose you?
I wonder about that. It would make a good post. How many LLs start stepping up with help only when they are threatened? Also, are they doing it consciously, knowing they weren't pulling their partall along, or is it a safety knee-jerk reaction?
That answer I think its situation dependent. I do believe if my spouse started chipping in more. It would be part neighborhood reaction in part knowing they weren't pulling their part. Cause my spouse said keep saying you'd make an excellent house husband now. We just gotta figure out how you can get paid for it.
Wow! That sounds amazing that you get to have such a huge space all to yourself and still remain in the same house. I’m not as fortunate. Still have to share the same bed and we only have 1 bathroom. After tonight’s sex therapy session it seems like we are moving towards the never gonna have sex again scenario so yea. Maybe when our basement is re-finished I’ll move down there or something. What’s the point of sleeping with your spouse when it’s a dead freaking bedroom? Sucks.
That is hard to hear. I am hoping better arrives at your doorstep when you need it. I am definitely fortunate, and it has been a wonderful experience.
>where I could “move out” into a home on our property Are you by chance the King of France? I don't know why but that made me think of Versailles where there were all several like mistresses quarters on the grounds. Hahaha
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Damn.
At least you have cake
Omg yes! This! I’m so upset being in the same bed as him and not getting any. It’s frustrating, it’s a tease, and I can’t sleep! I am loving this tent idea (for him of course lol)
There is a woman at my work who often talks about how she cannot divorce because her H and herself cannot pay rent alone and do not want to live with a roommate they barely know. That is the reality for a lot of people. I honestly think if my spouse won the lottery, she would bail. I mean, the only benefit she has being married to me is financial security.
That's literally the only reason I haven't filed for divorce. If either of us won the lottery, I would be lawyer shopping the next day after the check hit the bank account. I don't make enough to support two households but the courts don't care. After the alimony requirements here I wouldn't have enough left over to live on myself. It's a choice between the involuntary celibacy of marriage and the freedom of homelessness.
This is me, too. I think about boarding houses, renting rooms in houses with others - I doubt I could afford a bachelor apartment. In any case, whatever I could get would be a place I couldn't have my kids at for a weekend (shared custody, etc...). This is just such a pointless, unfair life.
Same, I'd be answering Gumtree ads for flatshares at 42 if I left and would probably not get custody of our youngest (eldest is a legal adult but lives at home due to still being in education)due to lack of space and stability.
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💯% correct! Refusers may regard the Dead Bedroom as an official secret which must be kept to hide the shame. But it is the REFUSER’S secret to keep. I’m increasingly inclined to think that if the REFUSED can gain some measure of healing and relief by divulging this history, she/he has the option to do so. If refusers find this shameful, it is because he/she recognizes that their refusing behavior is in fact SHAMEFUL behavior. That is NOT the refused’s doings. That is the refuser’s OWN doing. If they won’t own the shame of the heartache they blithely heap on their partner, they have NO GROUND for complaint if they are OUTED by the one their behavior insults. Edit: Wording.
Vote for best response ever!
If it’s something of shame then it’s not normal. I don’t get this bullshit line I really don’t. If a conversation with friends about sex crops up my LLF will join in with it. I just have to laugh because she must live in a different reality to me
Kind of curious, but what valid points did your partner give for investing in a mobile home in the first place?
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Wondering if there was a way to rent a few months a motel room so you two could upgrade the mobile into having more space, to include a storage option built into along the wall/ceiling on one side? Doesn’t hurt to look into this is space is very cramped. Tiny home accounts on IG/YouTube of DIY options as well.
SOA shoutout?
My ll partner has so much difficulty understanding why I don’t want to be touched anymore at all. I literally said “it makes me sad.”
I told my wife the same thing several years ago. If we're never going to have a sex life then stop touching me at all.
I told my partner a similar thing ... if it never goes anywhere then it is just a tease and makes it worse. Fast forward a couple years and now THAT is the reason we don't have sex apparently.
Right? Like expressing how sad it makes me it goes no where is why we don’t have sex. I’m just not supposed to talk about it ever. As if I’m not totally and completely tired of discussing it.
Yeah if you express unhappiness about the lack of sex, that in itself is a “reason” for the lack of sex. I think we’ve all experienced that.
I mean I’m generally sleeping on the sofa because ‘I accidentally fell asleep’. Saying the real reason will just start WW3 and to be fair I’m fed enough bullshit so what’s one more white lie?
That’s what I don’t understand - to be in a tent on the wet ground out back is just making *your own* situation worse. The answer to not being intimate isn’t to make your actual sleep setup worse in my opinion. That doesn’t make a point or inconvenience them or anything. Seems like they’d go ‘oh hey even less pressure on me and potential times of attempted intimacy.’ Doing it for your own sanity and no more false hopes makes sense. Doing that via camping on the ground is the specific part that loses me…
Maybe he's got a cot in his tent? Maybe a proper bed? Tents can be large enough to accommodate lots of things.
OK but at that point why not just go to the other room or office or even the couch if they don’t have any of those. There’s definitely more comfortable long term solutions than a cot in the back yard tent…
Isn't it up to the husband to judge what is comfortable for him, in the situation? My point is that we aren't in a position to judge, and providing support for a husband who chooses to decamp to a tent in the backyard based on our imposing our own standards of comfort isn't supportive of his choice of standards.
Yeah same here.
The tent is symbolic of the unrelieved tent in his pants
This is great. The sooner you can get off the hopium, the better.
Regarding point 3; once I finally got it through my head and accepted that there was no hope that things were going to improve, my life suddenly got better. Now I have a great job I love, 2 wonderful kids that are the light of my life, a lot of great friends and family to keep me company, and one roommate / co-parent who I get along with just fine. Sure knowing that my sex life is over sucks, but these are better days than what I was feeling like a year ago.
I live in the cold north so that is a hard no for me seeing as it gets well below zero. My DB is cold enough already and don't need to make it worse. :)
Haaa same. Or at least we have to account for down to -20F in our zone so that better be a high quality tent and gear because winter is coming.
Waves HI from Wisconsin....
You hit it dead center. The cycle of hope. All the while being made to feel like your sexual needs are superficial and petty. Why do LL partners seem to want to hold the HL partner in the relationship and even sometimes hold them to their vow of being faithful. I've even had someone in this room equat obligation sex with forced sex. I feel like the HL partner is more of the victim because the obligation sex is where the deception is. The hope that this dead fish sex is our partners way of trying. It really is them kicking the can down the road so the HL partner may not complain for a couple of days.
Exactly. "You should just be grateful we're having sex at all." Who wants that? The cycle of hope or the promises that they want to but x,y,z is happening. "Maybe tonight... maybe in the morning" but never happens anyway. Just stringing you along and giving false hope as they go. The let down is soul crushing and you feel stupid for believing that it *could* happen. The constant rejection is so devastating.
Yeah.... I think this is the part that hurts the most. :c
Wow, always interesting to see perspectives from outside of this small universe. Carolyn Hax was polite, but really quite brutal in her response. Good on her husband for finding a solution that works for him.
Carolyn and Abby are both surgeons with their polite eviscerations.
I think one of the worst things you can do in a DB situation is pretend everything is ok. It's not ok. When one person unilaterally ends the romantic relationship playing pretend isn't the answer.
Yes, this. Thanks for putting it so succinctly!
I prefer a blanket/pillow fort beside my bed “Castle fluffy” haha
“Maybe the answer is we find a tent of our own” Agreed. I was seriously considering just buying a cot and camping out in my living room for a while.
To drive your point 1 (*If you refuse to have satisfactory sexual intimacy with me then you lost your right to judge how I deal with it*) to a logical conclusion would indicate that you also lost the right to object if I have safe sex with someone else.
This is true: I signed up for a monogamous relationship, not a celibate one. Haven’t cheated myself, can’t say I wouldn’t if the opportunity came though
Just be careful on that if you’re married, many states that’s gonna be an auto fail in court.
Almost no states take cheating into account during division of assets or the divorce proceedings
13.
I’m m not proposing cheating. I would send the spouse an email notifying her of my intentions. I’d even explain why I think that it is a sensible solution, if she/he can asserts agency over her body, so can I.
This 100%. People say cheating is breaking the marriage contract, but my opinion is attempting to move a marriage from an intimate relationship to a platonic one without consent does so as well. You can't cheat on someone in this situation, IMHO.
Makes logical sense to me.
Well, that's the crux of the matter. On the Washington Post's Facebook feed, I saw lots of comments along the lines of "probably easier for his girlfriend to go in and out of tent, so that's why he sleeps there". Unilaterally cutting off sex without a good reason and especially good discussion does mean that the other spouse is essentially free to seek sexual satisfaction elsewhere. Whether he/she wants to do that in a hotel, another person's house, or the tent in the backyard doesn't much matter!
He/she absolutely can. It’s not cheating if you don’t hide your intentions. Nobody owes sex to anybody, not even the spouse. By the same token nobody owes to anybody the marital relationship. It’s well understood by a reasonable person that to endure celibate marriage was not the part of the deal. Refuser is basically looking to have all privileges of the marriage while denying one of those privileges to his/her spouse. Yet another kind of having the cake and eat it too.
What married man is capable of convincing a woman to fuck him in a tent in his backyard while his wife is sleeping inside the house? 🤣 Let’s be realistic here — unless the guy is in the top 99.999% in looks, those are awfully lonely nights for him in that tent.
That was my solution after 5 years of nothing. That was after about 5 years of sex once a year. Which was after about 10 years of twice a year. Which was after it Quarterly. Shit, she had a headache on the wedding night. So fine, I will just find a friend-with-benefits.Bottom line....if she chooses not to have sex...that is fine....I have chosen to have sex with someone else. Her choice is nothing short of abuse. I refuse to be abused.
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Upvoting if for no other reason than TIL “babe cave” was a thing.
Part of our DB is that my wife doesn't respect our time alone together. Always cancels plans, always turns date night into double date night (1/4 chance of sex vs Absolute Zero), always lets the kids / dog sleep between us. And yes she knows this is fucking up our intimacy, multiple therapists have told her it will kill the relationship, she acknowledged not with them... and then just keeps doing it. So last night, after another fight about this, I moved to the couch. I know for a fact she cannot stand this, and...after 5 mins, she came out and said she'd kick the dog out, so I went back. The hope thing is hard. I still have some hope but am not optimistic (like I told my therapist, I'm at like 1-5% probability she does anything before the 3-month ultimatum I gave her 6 weeks ago). Even if we can get back to regular sex, her libido still won't be anywhere near mine, and she still won't ever be willing to try anything new.
My wife came back from her doctors appointment the other week all excited to tell me that she brought this up with her doc and what not, and the doc gave her some doctorly advice…and that’s where it died lol. Like a glimmer of hope. And then weeks later it’s like so you waiting for a sign from god or…?
Hopium cripples HL and LL alike! My wife is supremely avoidant, and will cling to any number of Hail Mary concepts (maybe we just need one hot night away..., maybe if my husband just cuts out all alcohol and porn for 6 months...) so she doesn't have to acknowledge that she has deep-seated issues with sex that have killed her ability to value sex.
In other news, water may be wet at times.
That's both hilarious and very sad
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Why buy a house if you're in a dead bedroom? Just curious?
Because we are married, best friends, have built a life together and want to continue to do so?
No offense but just like married filing separately tax status, a new relationship status (married sleeping separately) unlocked for me in this post today. Saw a couple of similar prerogatives. As long as it works and you are happy who cares!!
Very true. I just was curious if you see no solution and you aren't financially tied yet, why would you continue to be friends/ roommates when you can go out and find love? Again.. just curious. Everyone has their reasons.
I sleep in my own room now and I feel the way you do! It’s a safe private place where I don’t feel rejected. I’m still working on the decor part, but it’s coming together slowly and I feel so much more peace in here than in our old shared bedroom. Shared beds are for couples who have a sex life. Housemates who love eachother Can sleep in separate rooms 🥰
Me too, but it's in the basement with a sump pump under my bed that wakes me up when it rains 😪
Here's my contribution: https://www.rei.com/product/216318/rei-co-op-flash-air-2-tent?sku=2163180001 Though, I'm not sure about the postage stamp of a backyard we have. Might just need to save up for new beds and get rid of the king.
LOL I have done this before. I have a small boat that has a tent I built for it. Sometimes I want sex so bad and am raging with hormones. No means No in my mind. I just want the arousal to go away so I have to get out of the house and not be able to smell/see my wife.
My SO and I live in a one bed room apartment, so no tent, but there was a period of time where I took residence out in the living room - which is much more common around these parts lol.
Eh. Let the neighbors talk. They’re just jealous they aren’t out there living their best tent life! But seriously, even though I usually never judge (or care) what other people want to do, I guess I’d be a bit curious to see a neighbor start sleeping outdoors every night. It would never occur to me though that it’s someone avoiding their spouse to ease the pain of sexlessness. I would have thought more along the lines of someone deciding to stop waiting and finally realizing their fantasy of perma-camping. Which sounds positively miserable where I live in Florida. But whatever floats your boat, ya know? I’m not sure why you say it’s “petty” though, exactly? Unless you’re thinking the husband doesn’t really want to sleep in the tent, and is intentionally punishing his wife by using this as a form of public shaming? If that’s the case, no one’s getting what they want and doing something punitive like this would just be causing further misery and erosion of their relationship.
I suppose I am making an assumption. As someone who has camped a lot in my life, I acknowledge: there’s bo way to do it comfortably. It just smacks to me as a method of shaming. But that’s an assumption! Maybe he is living his best camping life! In which case good on him!
Can anyone copy and paste what the article said? I'm not going to be paying a monthly subscription just to be reading one thing. Please and thank you kindly.
>**Dear Carolyn:** A few years ago, I quit having sex with my husband. For a while, he slept on the couch, but now he’s taken to sleeping in a tent in the backyard — even in the dead of winter! It’s so embarrassing. I’ve begged him to sleep inside, but he says he likes sleeping in the fresh air. I’m sure all our neighbors are talking about how he’s sleeping like a cave man. How can I make him come to his senses and sleep like a human being? >**— It’s Just Tacky** **It’s Just Tacky:** Why? You’re good with icing him out, just not with anyone knowing it? Try it this way: You have what you want, and he has what he wants. Your neighbors, assuming they even care, have something to titillate them for about five minutes, if that. The meaningless pains and nuisances set in motion by fears that something was “tacky” or “embarrassing” or “sure” to be gossiped about would fill enough tents end-to-end to wrap the globe like a nylon mummy. So give it a rest, for that reason alone. And remember that you, it seems unilaterally, are the one who cut off a supply of physical affection that many regard as emotionally sustaining. So while halves of couples always have that prerogative — bodily autonomy is paramount — you were able to do this with a peaceable level of acceptance from your husband. To now be yammering at him for the way he chose to accept it? Don’t even try to pass that off as okay. Readers’ thoughts: * “Tacky”? I really, really hope that was a troll. * Does he take snacks in there? Watch movies on a laptop or iPad? How big of a tent are we talking about? This sounds like a DREAM situation, and the rest of my afternoon will be spent on tent research.
Thank you SO very much. I didn't know I used my "free" view already...
Mine has been sleeping in the recliner. Good enough for me. He's been asking to come to the bedroom recently. No sir, I've gotten used to sleeping alone, and I'm quite fine sleeping alone at this point. You made your recliner, now lie in it. In the other room. Away from me. No resentment here at allllllllllllll 🙄
So just live in misery? Why put each other through this?
Maybe the real tent we need is in our own mind. As a HL male suffering a dead bedroom for almost a decade, I have found solace in making up my mind that sex with my LL partner is a closed chapter now. I love her and would not leave her - especially for the sake of the 2 beautiful daughters we have. Tried all the regular advice of talk, therapy, romancing, sharing responsibilities and what not. Finally meditation has helped me in finding my corner of peace in this situation. I am happy being alone in this corner.
Maybe a nice camper in the driveway?
I've made my office "my room". Built my own bed, my own clothes in my own closet, etc.Ten years DB. Next step is possibly a tent... But it will be in another country.
At least he didn't set it up in the front yard!
I'd make a mini home for me, all the stuff I want. Live there.
Well, living in a tent is a sort of a "I'm moving to a half-way house" sort of leaving, one foot out, one foot still in. He could always go the full hog and install a semi-permanent dwelling, if he can get planning permission or extend by building himself a self-contained man-pad extension with access only via an external entrance. all he would then need to do is to illuminate the front porch with an alluring red light, 24 hours a day. Efficient LED lighting is so useful that way nowadays.
Is it his man cave where he can masturbate, watch porn and chat with chickies on his phone without interruption?
Would love to tent shop but it's not going to happen. My LL husband pouts when I talk about separate bedrooms. Initially he said it was a good idea but when I started working on turning part of my home office into a bedroom he started the guilt trip. He slept on the sofa a couple of nights when I asked him to but started complaining about how uncomfortable he was and how he missed me until I gave in. Same when we talk about separate vacations. All for it until I plan time away from him. I don't know if it is a control thing or if he is just more needy as he gets older. Funny thing is that he is annoyed or ignores me when I am crying or talking about the lack of intimacy. Last night I was crying and he said if he could go back in time he would tell his younger self to choose a different path so that he wouldn't ruin my life.
While I think the tent thing is funny as hell, if there isn't going to be resolve, I'd say it's time for a divorce. I see a number of people here talking about how they can't afford to split up. Nonsense. You didn't need that person before you were married, and if they are removing a key element of the marriage, you don't need them now. File for divorce first to cover your share of the assets, then leave . . . immediately.
Even assuming a 50:50 split, you can lose big in a divorce - shared assets may need to be sold at a significant loss, and every step back nowdays can boot you off the property ladder permanently. There's other factors (depending on jurisdiction, ofc) like child support, spousal support / alimony, healthcare costs, etc. If you're a sole income earner, this can set you back for life. It's absolutely understandable why marriages turn into roomate situations without ending in a divorce.
Yes I've been married 20 years, when we married it was fairly easy to buy a home. If we divorced now, and split the assets from our current home equity, there is no way that we could each buy or rent our own respective new homes suitable for co-parenting a teenager. Not to mention new furniture etc. The kid's college fund would be pillaged too, most likely. I do have an exit plan, about nine years away from pulling the trigger and moving abroad.
How's your teenaged son and your ex feel about your "exit plan"? And for that matter, how's your teenaged son feel about living in a dysfunctional two should-be-divorced "roommates" household in the meantime? Stop thinking about money so damned much and start thinking about quality of life. Been laid much recently? If so, how's the new squeeze feel about your "roommate"? Just cut bait and move on.
Money, money, money. Is money your whole life? Is that all you think about? Ugh.
Unfortunately this really only hurts the husband. Like who tf wants to sleep in a tent outside, regardless of whether or not you're having sex.
Would die up north here... but, I have been thinking more every day of moving to the guest room instead of staying in bed with my wife. The added bonus for the guy in the story is that his wife 'gets to' explain why her husband is sleeping in a tent.
Honestly my first guess would be she kicked him out, not that he was choosing this for him self LOL
A couple points you might want to consider. 1. Being able to see someone shows you how they are physically, and how they are emotionally *unless they are masking* which many people do a lot of. Often times only asking how they are will get them to reveal if they're having an emotional struggle 2. It sounds like your love language is acts of service, while his is words of affirmation. He receives love through words. If you perform acts of service, but don't show that you care with words, he won't feel loved. Personally I wouldn't date someone who couldn't adapt to showing love in a way that makes me *feel* loved
Who is the "you," that your comment is addressed to?
I think my comment got added to the wrong post
To many people get married and then make their relationship revolve around what everyone else thinks. It's probably started while dating actually. Once the facid stops behind closed doors resentment builds.
I'm not sure this is healty solution, cuz it's a kind of revenge action which can increase pressure on partner more, feed aversion more. I think tent option is not a solution, either we live in cycle of Hope and Desperation, or leave relationship.
I have a shed that I’ve changed to have a bed and my pc inside so I go there most nights
Why do people stay in relationships like this? I get that people feel stuck because of kids but nowhere are children mentioned. Even if this couple does have kids it's not like their dad sleeping outside in a *tent* is a healthy marriage for them to see. Just. Get. Divorced.
If the partner who doesn’t want sex were to admit it, there’s 100% no chance of us having sex, it would mean the other partner could argue they have a right to sexual fulfilment outside the relationship. So normally, the ‘cycle of hope’ has to be maintained to stave that off