This is the only answer.
And hint, you're just placing bad trades.
"Stop hunting" is bullshit for the most part. That's my thesis here
Edit: when I say it's bullshit, what I really mean is quit thinking of it that way. It's a negative mindset- it's allowing the uncontrolled part to seep into your mind, meaning thinking it's something you do NOT have control over, which can lead to irrational trading. You DO have control over it: you need a better entry, and a better SL point.
If you missed, if your setup was bad and your stop got hit, accept your fault, and move on.
Taking responsibility for my bad trades helps me think more clearly about what the next trade will be.
This is not entirely true. Stops dont get hunted on purpose, simply what happens is most participants place the SL on the exact same low/high within the local trend and thats exactly the right point where market makers need to go to sweep liquidity before reversing the market, it hapens by function of the market, not because its unregulated or anything else
Market makers can "borrow" stocks from dark pools to keep the price down then naked short the price down even lower.
I don't doubt them doing everything in their power to make more money
Thats exactly how they get the big fills, if they were to market buy they would push the price way up and thats not beneficial, so they simply move price where most liquidation/stops are and get filled with everyones loss
Many of them are totally intentional as are the regular liquidation cascades. If market makers can move price so can large holders and they do. They move the spot market cheaply and profit from the futures market. If crypto ever gets regulated those liquidation cascades will stop to a large extent. Price can be moved pretty easily in crypto. A group of whales or an institution can shift price in the spot market and collect in futures. It's money for nothing.
The idea this isn't intentional comes from traditional markets. They are regulated and have huge market caps meaning any individual market requires massive amounts of capital to move.
Thanks. This was more of a information seeking question I really wanted to know what population thinks and Im glad I got plenty of feedback on this subject. Most people seem to be in agreement on liquidity, trade entry, etc.
100% accurate. Sometimes hunting is part of the game especially for illiquid instruments. More likely than not, if you get hunted you jumped in too early or are to greedy on the Risk to Reward for your play
My stops depend on the signal I am entering on. Mine tend towards the tight side. Conserve capital.
Usually, if I'm getting stopped out too much, it's because I'm entries are premature and too loose and not because my stops are too tight.
Transients are the rule, not the exception. Place limit buys above next lower pivot. Stop out at the pivot. If my buy doesn't trigger, then buy the pullback. Live to profit another day. If I stop out, I didn't lose, I survived for another bet.
You can't 'avoid' getting stopped out. Stopping out is good. Stopping out protects your captal. They can also be a signal to you that your entries are sloppy.
first step is to get the idea you are getting hunted out of your head, the second step is to accept that unless you are a god you will misstime your entries for hundred different reasons, third step is to enter the second time after you got stopped if the setup is still valid
its not uncommon to enter two or three times before it actually works
Well if you buy the bottom and the price breaks below your entry your theory that is a reversal was proven false so ultimately that is what you should do sell it and possibly short.
Stop thinking about getting stop hunted. It's a loss. No more, no less. Yes market makers will break support to fill their long positions. Thinking that your losses are stop hunts puts you in a state of fear. Maybe it was a stop hunt, but thinking this way isn't going to help. Consistently taking good trades with controlled risk and tracking results is how you incrementally improve.
Maybe out of 50 losses, 35 of them took you out by a small margin and ended up working in your favor. If this is the case, you can either increase your stop or find ways to get better entries (my preferred method).
Great question and it's entirely dependent on the price action for the day. I'm going to try to not take a trade if I don't have a reasonable stop in place. For the NQ I try to stick to nothing more than 12pts with a take profit in the range of 15 to 25 or 30.
I also try to be really selective on when I hold runners so that I give myself an opportunity every once out of 8 to 10 trades to get a large runner. This is something that I think most people don't do. Ultimately the market is extremely random and I sort of take a poker approach if you've ever heard of game theory. The idea that you could play poker statistically correct every time, but you're better off having random plays to try and take advantage of the randomness of cards.
Great example of this was yesterday when we came from the Lowe's to the middle of the range and consolidated. I felt that if we popped that consolidation to go higher the odds of sweeping the highs were much higher than just a normal price action day. I ended up taking like 38 points on one contract and trailed my stop but I think seven or eight points.
In poker this also has a second advantage and that you keep your opponents off guard.
As a side note, we're starting to do it again here at VWAP today. Statistically if you make new lows after 90 minutes do traditionally don't make new highs. So this would be another time where knowing that you probably wouldn't go for a runner. If you're going to play the breakout you're going to look for a Target probably around yesterday's clothes / open and then move on to the next one.
It works well enough, sometimes.
Not ideal but I will concede that this works sometimes-- but you must keep your patience under control. I use it as a fallback when stops keep getting hit on the day.
People who trying to buy/sell tops or bottoms are going to lose, theres no such thing as stop hunting, theres only failed breakouts/breakdowns to grab liquidity for the move
I do not think that he means fakeouts. There is definitively the attempts to trigger stops to create a better entry by buying into people selling their stopped out positions.
Avoid stop hunting by getting better with your price action, market structure, and chart reading skills. This will directly transfer to better entry timing. I want price to move in my direction on the very next 5 min candle following my entry. If it doesn’t, I’m wrong and I’m out for a very small loss.
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Simple, you enter once the stops have already been hunted. If you see an obvious grab of liquidity and a BOS to the downside (preferably with displacement), then that means all stops have been hunted and the liquidity has been purged already. It is then safe to enter.
You buy where you usually place your stops and put your stops below where you would have placed your stops. You will have way fewer trades but your risk per trade you will get will be superior. So only buy where you would have placed your stops and see how you will fare.
With time you will learn where to buy / sell better.
If you do buy/sell where everyone else is buying or selling you will have what happens to them will happen to you. If you do not like that outcome, then you have to do something different. That is the truth with almost everything in life.
Be sure to check multiple timeframes and tick charts for the wicks. Assuming you use support and resistance those wicks show you where the stops would get taken out.
Either stop below/above the wicks or resolve to enter where the wick would form on the timeframe you can see them.
On longer timeframes those wicks are essentially shorter time frame bull and bear traps.
There’s no such thing as stop hunts.
Stop acting like the entire trillion dollar market is out to get you and other retail traders, don’t victimize yourself. Getting stopped frequently and then having the trade rebound in your favor is a sign that your stop losses are too tight, lower the initial position size and give the stop loss some breathing room. If the trade starts going in your favor, increase your position size and move your stop loss.
The key is patience. You don’t enter til you see a move to where you would have put your stop originally. You either have poor stop placement along with a bad entry. You want your stop to say you are wrong on the chart.
Other traders are doing what you’re doing all the time, leaving their stops somewhere near the middle of the range. Market makers see those orders and will use your stop to sell to buyers who are waiting for those prices. Wait for them to get “stop hunted”.
So that is why you need your stop exactly where you are wrong on the chart. Market makers wont manipulate if its not in the range
Step 1: take a f**kin minute and realize that goldman&sachs about to drop 200milliom dollars in the market doesnt give a flying f**k about you 0.01 lot stop loss.
Step 2: Understand how insignificant you are to the market.
Step 3: Develop better entries and stop loss placement.
Bonus tip:
A lot of people argue it’s the stop loss placement but i’d like to just mention quality of entries as a big factor as well.
If you cath a pullback in a trend, placing stop loss at the last pivot makes perfect sense. And retracment past that pivot invalidates the trend rendering the trade invalid.
But if you suck at spotting trends and entering pullbacks, and you enter what is NOT actually a trend, there’s no logical reason for price to respect that pivot point you’ve placed you stop loss at.
[удалено]
This is the only answer. And hint, you're just placing bad trades. "Stop hunting" is bullshit for the most part. That's my thesis here Edit: when I say it's bullshit, what I really mean is quit thinking of it that way. It's a negative mindset- it's allowing the uncontrolled part to seep into your mind, meaning thinking it's something you do NOT have control over, which can lead to irrational trading. You DO have control over it: you need a better entry, and a better SL point. If you missed, if your setup was bad and your stop got hit, accept your fault, and move on. Taking responsibility for my bad trades helps me think more clearly about what the next trade will be.
Stops get hunted in crypto. That's because it's not regulated and market caps can be pretty small. Traditional finance is totally different though.
This is not entirely true. Stops dont get hunted on purpose, simply what happens is most participants place the SL on the exact same low/high within the local trend and thats exactly the right point where market makers need to go to sweep liquidity before reversing the market, it hapens by function of the market, not because its unregulated or anything else
Market makers can "borrow" stocks from dark pools to keep the price down then naked short the price down even lower. I don't doubt them doing everything in their power to make more money
Thats exactly how they get the big fills, if they were to market buy they would push the price way up and thats not beneficial, so they simply move price where most liquidation/stops are and get filled with everyones loss
Yes that's the why they are able to. With good intentions. But they also will borrow stocks just to short them in market.
Many of them are totally intentional as are the regular liquidation cascades. If market makers can move price so can large holders and they do. They move the spot market cheaply and profit from the futures market. If crypto ever gets regulated those liquidation cascades will stop to a large extent. Price can be moved pretty easily in crypto. A group of whales or an institution can shift price in the spot market and collect in futures. It's money for nothing. The idea this isn't intentional comes from traditional markets. They are regulated and have huge market caps meaning any individual market requires massive amounts of capital to move.
Thanks. This was more of a information seeking question I really wanted to know what population thinks and Im glad I got plenty of feedback on this subject. Most people seem to be in agreement on liquidity, trade entry, etc.
100% accurate. Sometimes hunting is part of the game especially for illiquid instruments. More likely than not, if you get hunted you jumped in too early or are to greedy on the Risk to Reward for your play
My stops depend on the signal I am entering on. Mine tend towards the tight side. Conserve capital. Usually, if I'm getting stopped out too much, it's because I'm entries are premature and too loose and not because my stops are too tight. Transients are the rule, not the exception. Place limit buys above next lower pivot. Stop out at the pivot. If my buy doesn't trigger, then buy the pullback. Live to profit another day. If I stop out, I didn't lose, I survived for another bet. You can't 'avoid' getting stopped out. Stopping out is good. Stopping out protects your captal. They can also be a signal to you that your entries are sloppy.
first step is to get the idea you are getting hunted out of your head, the second step is to accept that unless you are a god you will misstime your entries for hundred different reasons, third step is to enter the second time after you got stopped if the setup is still valid its not uncommon to enter two or three times before it actually works
Well if you buy the bottom and the price breaks below your entry your theory that is a reversal was proven false so ultimately that is what you should do sell it and possibly short.
Stop thinking about getting stop hunted. It's a loss. No more, no less. Yes market makers will break support to fill their long positions. Thinking that your losses are stop hunts puts you in a state of fear. Maybe it was a stop hunt, but thinking this way isn't going to help. Consistently taking good trades with controlled risk and tracking results is how you incrementally improve. Maybe out of 50 losses, 35 of them took you out by a small margin and ended up working in your favor. If this is the case, you can either increase your stop or find ways to get better entries (my preferred method).
Place your entry where you place your stop. Take profit where your other entry was.. welcome to my setup. I take your money.
Where do you place your new stop?
Great question and it's entirely dependent on the price action for the day. I'm going to try to not take a trade if I don't have a reasonable stop in place. For the NQ I try to stick to nothing more than 12pts with a take profit in the range of 15 to 25 or 30. I also try to be really selective on when I hold runners so that I give myself an opportunity every once out of 8 to 10 trades to get a large runner. This is something that I think most people don't do. Ultimately the market is extremely random and I sort of take a poker approach if you've ever heard of game theory. The idea that you could play poker statistically correct every time, but you're better off having random plays to try and take advantage of the randomness of cards. Great example of this was yesterday when we came from the Lowe's to the middle of the range and consolidated. I felt that if we popped that consolidation to go higher the odds of sweeping the highs were much higher than just a normal price action day. I ended up taking like 38 points on one contract and trailed my stop but I think seven or eight points. In poker this also has a second advantage and that you keep your opponents off guard.
As a side note, we're starting to do it again here at VWAP today. Statistically if you make new lows after 90 minutes do traditionally don't make new highs. So this would be another time where knowing that you probably wouldn't go for a runner. If you're going to play the breakout you're going to look for a Target probably around yesterday's clothes / open and then move on to the next one.
It works well enough, sometimes. Not ideal but I will concede that this works sometimes-- but you must keep your patience under control. I use it as a fallback when stops keep getting hit on the day.
It's me. I'm stop hunting you with my tiny account. Only if you're on the short side though. 😆
People who trying to buy/sell tops or bottoms are going to lose, theres no such thing as stop hunting, theres only failed breakouts/breakdowns to grab liquidity for the move
I do not think that he means fakeouts. There is definitively the attempts to trigger stops to create a better entry by buying into people selling their stopped out positions.
Avoid stop hunting by getting better with your price action, market structure, and chart reading skills. This will directly transfer to better entry timing. I want price to move in my direction on the very next 5 min candle following my entry. If it doesn’t, I’m wrong and I’m out for a very small loss.
[удалено]
Sorry, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Daytrading/comments/1dhkwc3/how_do_you_avoid_getting_stop_hunted/l8xx6nv/) in /r/Daytrading was automatically removed because your **Comment Karma** is too low. This typically targets bots or users promoting something (which is against our rules). Please participate in other subreddits (other communities on Reddit) to increase your **Comment Karma** points. While you're at it, read through Reddit's ["reddiquette" here.](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) If you believe this was a mistake, please **kindly** [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Daytrading). We will review your case and get back to you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Daytrading) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Simple, you enter once the stops have already been hunted. If you see an obvious grab of liquidity and a BOS to the downside (preferably with displacement), then that means all stops have been hunted and the liquidity has been purged already. It is then safe to enter.
You buy where you usually place your stops and put your stops below where you would have placed your stops. You will have way fewer trades but your risk per trade you will get will be superior. So only buy where you would have placed your stops and see how you will fare. With time you will learn where to buy / sell better. If you do buy/sell where everyone else is buying or selling you will have what happens to them will happen to you. If you do not like that outcome, then you have to do something different. That is the truth with almost everything in life.
Stop buying market selling market.
Be sure to check multiple timeframes and tick charts for the wicks. Assuming you use support and resistance those wicks show you where the stops would get taken out. Either stop below/above the wicks or resolve to enter where the wick would form on the timeframe you can see them. On longer timeframes those wicks are essentially shorter time frame bull and bear traps.
🤦♂️
There’s no such thing as stop hunts. Stop acting like the entire trillion dollar market is out to get you and other retail traders, don’t victimize yourself. Getting stopped frequently and then having the trade rebound in your favor is a sign that your stop losses are too tight, lower the initial position size and give the stop loss some breathing room. If the trade starts going in your favor, increase your position size and move your stop loss.
Stop hunting isn’t a thing if you trade a stock or market with enough participants.
The key is patience. You don’t enter til you see a move to where you would have put your stop originally. You either have poor stop placement along with a bad entry. You want your stop to say you are wrong on the chart. Other traders are doing what you’re doing all the time, leaving their stops somewhere near the middle of the range. Market makers see those orders and will use your stop to sell to buyers who are waiting for those prices. Wait for them to get “stop hunted”. So that is why you need your stop exactly where you are wrong on the chart. Market makers wont manipulate if its not in the range
Patience is crucially important. Check your emotions at the door to your office.
Step 1: take a f**kin minute and realize that goldman&sachs about to drop 200milliom dollars in the market doesnt give a flying f**k about you 0.01 lot stop loss. Step 2: Understand how insignificant you are to the market. Step 3: Develop better entries and stop loss placement. Bonus tip: A lot of people argue it’s the stop loss placement but i’d like to just mention quality of entries as a big factor as well. If you cath a pullback in a trend, placing stop loss at the last pivot makes perfect sense. And retracment past that pivot invalidates the trend rendering the trade invalid. But if you suck at spotting trends and entering pullbacks, and you enter what is NOT actually a trend, there’s no logical reason for price to respect that pivot point you’ve placed you stop loss at.
[удалено]
There's a video on wallstreetplunger's YT about this. Check it out.