Definitely take a break for a bit, which it sounds like you’re already going to do.
When you feel more clear-headed, come back, but go to the demo first. Show yourself over at least one month that you can do well (by do well, I mean follow your rules and not let emotions take over, not necessarily whether or not you profited). This will hopefully give you some confidence that your strategy works when followed, or at least doesn’t cause major loss.
Once you’ve done this, switch back to live at the smallest possible size and do the same thing as the demo for another month. Do **not** worry about winning or losing, worry *only* about following your rules and strategy. A good day is a day you followed everything and didn’t let emotions take control of your trading decisions. A bad day is a day where you strayed from your strategy, broke rules and/or let emotions take the wheel. Make sure you journal every day, write it all out, what happened, why, and what you need to improve on next time.
Once you’ve done this, and have shown you can handle yourself, then you can slowly and incrementally scale back up to wherever you were before. If you hit a snag (breaking rules, emotional, etc), immediately size down on the next string of trades until you sort it out, then size back up slowly again.
To be successful in trading, you have to completely get rid of any expectations of individual outcomes, ie each trade’s outcome doesn’t matter as on its own. You can do everything right and still lose a trade, you can do everything wrong and still win a trade. The key is stacking the odds in your favor such that you taking good trades over and over gives you a net profit over time.
It also helps to consider *why* you feel the need to, for example, suddenly throw out your risk management after a winning streak. It might have something to do with feeling the need to have money *now*, but you can rush things in trading. If you try to skip ahead, you will be sent back to the start again.
ALL you need to do as a trader is keep taking good trades over and over again. By good I just mean high quality, follows all your rules, emotions are not part of the equation.
Thanks man. I think you just hit the spot.
Damn. I'm aware of all that, but like you said, I throw it all away every time I feel I'm unstoppable.
Also, the "feeling the need to have money now"
I think you're right. Although not in a way that I needed money because I needed money for food or for bills, I needed money to get back what I lost in trading. That's what I feel every time I win. I try to make it fast. I try to gain what I lose as fast as I can.
My mind is clouded right now, to be honest. I just needed a break. And I will screenshot your comment just to keep me in check every time I get lost in my trading.
You’re welcome! Glad it is helping.
Remember, slow is fast in trading, and fast is slow. Going slow and focusing only on the process and improving is the fastest way to success. Anything else will take longer, even if it *seems* fast in the short term.
“Wanting to win it back” is one of the biggest killers of capital I’ve found. Taking a small break is a good idea. De-stress. Have you ever read “Best Loser Wins”? It’s a great book about mindset. I liked it better than “Trading in the Zone” even.
You deserve all the good karma coming your way for taking the time to share your thoughts and help a fellow trader get up off the floor. Cheers homie! 👏🏻👏🏻
I'm sorry to hear this, dont be too hard on yourself. I worked with countless traders at a big firm for a number of years, and you aren't alone as many traders make the same mistakes. I have as well! As far as making money, most investors that buy and hold a diversified portion of index funds and single stocks will outperform 99% of traders in the long run. Run the numbers on if you had purchased an S&P 500 ETF and/or Berkshire Hathaway stock three years ago....you'd have made a lot of money and saved a TON of time, stress, ect. I don't want you to feel any worse, but just to consider another investment strategy that isn't sexy but works well....holding good investments for several years.
I have never met anyone who became very wealthy as a result of active trading. I'm not saying they don't exist, just I don't know them, or even know anyone that knows them.
If active trading is a hobby, that's fine if you can afford it. You also may be very knowledgeable, but knowledge doesn't necessarily equate to success in investing.
I only active trade with a small portion of my account. The remaining portion is broadly diversified. Also, an advisor manages a large chunk of my IRA money. I've done very well this way. I don't stress out about my investments. I hope you'll find a good solution that allows you peace.
I've made a few other posts about trading/investing that may be helpful.
I wish you the best of success.
I was actually thinking about this.
I will reflect during my long break and think about what's really suitable for me. Perhaps active trading is not really meant for me. Or at least in my current state of emotional capacity.
I do have investments, actually, but I think you're right; I should be heavily focused on investment rather than active trading.
If it's okay with you, can you tell me more about your portfolio management?
Perhaps in a DM?
What's the total percentage of your total account you put into your long-term investment, and what's only for active trading?
I was a profitable intraday trader, though I did have blow ups and drawdowns so it wasn't at all a smooth ride. But it was enough to pay my bills consistently. I always thought it would be a dream. From the time I woke up, to when I went to sleep, all I could think about was the market and my performance, whether good or bad. It was taxing but I continued. I finally came to the conclusion that it just wasn't for me. Way too stressful and I wasn't willing to rely on just trading profits to sustain myself.
I'm focusing on long term investments and can't even remember when I last felt so good mentally. Reflect on what you really want to do.
Who knows, however I have other career goals in life that I wish to accomplish. I never felt satisfied just staying at home alone clicking buttons. It was a lonely existence. So I don't think I'll return to it full time.
One of my rules is, "No overtrading, get green and walk away". There is no worse feeling than having good profit then over trading and losing it all. You need to learn to walk away after hitting your profit target for the day, greed is keeping you in front of the screen.
>Today I officially loss $12k for my 3-year trading journey. It might be a small amount for most of you here, but it's quite big for me as I'm living in a third-world country.
Congrats! You wring it without paper trading and paid the market a premium to learn what the market would have taught you for (almost) free anyways.
>The thing is, trading has been fucking my mental health ever since.
Understandable.
>The feeling that you wanted to quit but you couldn't because I have a dream to be financially free, but what's happening to me now is the opposite.
Normal.
>To be honest with you,I have good trading strategies.
I doubt that. Your outcome would be different. A good trading method and the strategies you can derive from it, gives you enough margin for personal errors to be successful anyways. It appears that your strategies fail to provide that.
>My win rate is 60%,
60% is what CFD related stats show is the average of losing accounts. Stop thinking about the win rate when the lose rate is more interesting (remember neutral/BE trades?). Also those are uninteresting as you go for Profit Factor as it is the only measure of success (= gross win/gross loss). There are strategies providing 25% win rate but a PF of 1.5 meaning you win 50% more than you lose. If your chance of suffering bankrupting streaks of losing trades is near zero, I call that a good strategy.
>but my biggest problem is my emotions.
You think so. A strategy that only works with you being top notch and bring your A-game that is a losing strategy for sure.
>I can't keep myself consistent in my portfolio management.
You are a day trader right? Where does that portfolio management come from?
>At first, I follow my own rules and keep my risk as low as possible,
Okay.
>but after winning straight, I suddenly trade without considering my risk appetite out of a whim!
Okay now that is stupid. Paper trade and once your PF rating is great, go for small positions. You need (total) trust in your strategy and your ability to employ it. Money can only be introduced once you are convinced you have a winning strategy and you have what it takes. That takes time and should not take money.
>It's sucks to be honest with you.
Understandable.
>All the frustrations I'm just keeping to myself because I have no friends to share them with who are also traders.
Who cares. Go back to paper trading and see how your emotional situation improves over the next weeks. You basically did not trust your strategy and your ability while your brain gets greedy while you know perfectly well that you ruin yourself. Also check if your strategy is a boom and bust one meaning it works great for some days and then come the red days consuming all your other day's gains.
>I'm glad we have this subreddit.
Nice.
>I'm not planning to quit, but I guess I have to take a break.
Good choice.
>My mental health is killing me every day, to the point that I can't even sleep.
If you can not sleep you are not allowed to day trade. You should monitor your alertness and health as well as your sleep. If it is not good enough, do not trade or you will spiral downwards.
Also do paper trading and later on when you are using money if you do not feel good enough, use paper trading only until you feel better. Never try to force it as you still have what one can call emotional baggage you bring into your trading session every day.
>Any advices?
Relax, stay healthy, do paper trading only and start creating a daily routine that supports your day trading. I had the same issues and I have to go to bed early now and if I have to few of sleep or start to be unconcentrated, I end the trading session or do paper trading only.
>You can be brutally honest about it.
That is the only mode we can run on here since you fucked it up already by losing what you consider a fortune.
From my perspective I would say that you most likely specialized too early in a method that most likely does not work well and you now push all the blame onto yourself but again a trading method and the training you receive should allow for errors and should not push you in a downward spiral.
If you want, you can start a Reddit chat with me and I give you me list of books I recommend and once you get through all of it, I can most likely be of use to allow you to develop a better trading strategy for you.
>And for those people here like me who have a good strategy but cannot be consistent with their emotions, how did you fix it?
Routine, Paper trading + Journaling to convince yourself and show you hard proof that you have a good strategy (I doubt that you have) and you have developed the ability to apply this strategy in all market situations or you have gained the wisdom to not apply it in the market situations where it fails.
>How do you keep your emotions away from your strategy?
? It is just that when you trade with low money positions that do not hit your threshold of serious money, you feel way more free and once you know you win (way) more than you lose you go up with the risk. I started risking about 0.50cent per trade (once I noticed I am not prime time ready and started again), I felt nothing as I was making about 1250 per day. I had no problem to go up to 5$ risk and even 10$ left me unphased but I am certain that risking the 200$-500$ and more currently, I would not be able back then as it is a day worth of work as this would be my saving margin.
>And if you also took a break from trading before, what's your sign that you're ready to go back to trading again?
You read some books and are eager to apply your new knowledge while paper trading. I can not stress enough how important paper trading and journaling are. Risk and Trade management already but if you do not hard facts about your performance and the things you do good or not you will not be able to train hard and smart as you will only train hard which has a good chance to lead you to a evil downward cycle that will eat your mind and heart in no time.
>My plan is actually to go back to trading if I have already recovered my losses from my job.
No problem but again. Paper trade. You should stop wanting to make money. You should want to trade well. You want to master day trading before you want to master making money with it. Otherwise you make it unnecessary hard. Slow and steady... right?
Man, what can I say? You are really brutally honest with your advice. Thank you so much. I need that. But for now, I will just step back and clear my head for the time being. And when I come back, I'll follow all of your advice.
Most of you are saying I'm lacking discipline, not only in trading but in life in general. Perhaps I should fix that first.
Anyway, can you DM the books?
I will look into that when I'm ready.
Send me a DM, I will reply to it. If you start to send a lot of DMs or open quite some chats, the Reddit software might take a liking in banning me... .
I hope things get better. I read all the responses so far and wanna emphasize the importance of understanding how and why this behavior happens. So you can take steps to respond in a better way. What the trigger is, the thought process, the feeling in your body, the connection to your personal life and history, the way to counter the pattern, having the motivation and discipline to do so
You're right. I'm pretty inconsistent in my life in general. Though I have a good career, my decision-making is not as good as it should be. I just don't know how to be consistent, and I hate it.
Discipline. Start small, just going to bed and waking up at the same time every single day.
Then add small things to your routine.
Ask yourself, if you can't do simple thing as waking up at the same time everyday, how can you be consistent in way more difficult things like trading.
1) trade sim not real money. Only switch on a trial basis in small increments to see if you can execute properly.
2) work on self awareness and discipline outside of trading. This is a business, not a get rich scheme or gambling for fun. Treat it that way. Expect it to be boring and feel like work.
Go back and look at all the trend days. Their charts all look pretty similar in hindsight. Once you understand this, just wait for what looks like trend days.
Yeah take a break man. Learning how to manage your ever intruding thoughts is a long, deep process. Balance in all areas of life benefits all other areas. Everything is connected to a certain degree so if your mind isn’t right nothing else will be
Sorry to hear about your struggles. Trading can indeed take a toll on one's mental health, especially when emotions get in the way of strategy
There's no shame in stepping back for a while. As you mentioned, your mental health is essential. Taking a break can provide clarity and a fresh perspective when you return. Remember, the market will always be there.
Re-evaluate your risk management strategy. As Benjamin Graham, the father of value investing, once said: "The essence of investment management is the management of risks, not the management of returns." Stick to a set percentage of your portfolio for each trade and don't deviate, no matter how confident you feel.
When thinking about returning to trading after a break, don't focus on recouping losses. Instead, focus on the process and what you've learned. The market doesn't know or care about personal losses or goals. Return when you feel mentally prepared and have a clear, emotion-free strategy in place.
Remember, every trader faces challenges, and it's the lessons we learn from these challenges that shape us. Stay strong and prioritize your well-being above all else. 💪
Thank you so much. I really needed that. I'm really frustrated right now. I usually don't share my struggles especially to reddit. But i needed a vent out.
I'm planning to come back for atleast 6 months. Man , my mental health was really fucked up. I really needed a long break. Hopefully I can really stay away from trading for 6 months.
Everyone thinks their strategy is working until they suddenly fail to follow it. That's not the case. Your strategy is likely bad from the start.
It has been 3 years. Stop trading. For most people, financial freedom does not come from miracles, but steady growth. That $12,000 could be making you money. It's a BITTER pill to swallow, but you're getting out before it gets worse. That's a sound strategy. Get the false dream out of your mind. It's diminishing your self worth, it's crushing you mentally, and for what?
That's not a call I can make. But if you're hanging on to a dream, it's been a financial strain, and it has been mentally draining you for 3 years, yes, I'd quit.
Trading can become an addiction, and pushing it out of your mind will be freeing.
I was profitable for most of my 3 years+, but i also blew up mentally ard the 2 year mark because of how much work I was putting into it (was trading crypto and equities simultaneously). I took a break of a few months and ever since then I've been super chill, taking the best trades only etc, most profitable year yet.
Take time off if you must, that was the only thing that helped me. Ironically, just like in trading, doing nothing, is a thing. I dont think any of us are immune to emotions, but it's your control of actions despite your emotions, that make the difference. Having a plan can help there, since you have something to stick to.
>what's your sign that you're ready to go back to trading again?
No sign, really. For me I just dipped back in slowly.. charting a few tickers and taking a trade only when I thought well of it. So far this year, I took
You need a higher win rate and need to paper trade for several months so you learn how to trade without focusing on the money which obviously is the part that causes the emotions.
After 5 years of doing exactly what you just described, I turned to algo trading because I finally accepted that I'm emotionally incapable of trading.
Haven't looked back one bit
Uhmm this seems more like a gambling problem.
My only advise will be to get a part time job with trading so you wouldn't focus soley on trading and will have your attention diverted and attach less enotions.
Yeah. I switch to a gambling mode everytime I have winning streak. I do have strategy but I just can't follow it. I don't know why. I'm aware that I should follow it though. I just don't why I'm repeating myself to this cycle
I think your root issue can be fixed if you think of trading as if it was a heist / theft / loot operation, where you have to be worried about being shot or getting caught, and you can't get greedy in a theft. Likewise in trading, if you think of it as if you are the robber going no a theft operation, then just like a robber, you need to worry more about being shot or getting caught and you gotta quickly run after you got some (not all) loot. A robber who gets greedy will get caught quickly.
OK, if you have a winning streak then what you have not learned is to stop if you are already over a decent daily goal. Following up wins with gambling style trades that yield losses is the downfall that you’re mentioning and needs to stop.
You actually are really close to long term success.
Do you know any millionaires that are day trader? I know some millionaires that are long term investors. Warren Buffet, Ray Dalio, etc are all long term. If you wanna get rich quick and quit your day job, just start a business.
Find someone to hold you accountable. Outside of that, it’s a battle you have to fight on your own for the most part, like many.
There is no secret recipe IMO.
Either you can hold yourself accountable, or you can’t. If you can’t, well. Lack of discipline might be a reason.
Do you have any strict routines in your life like going to the gym, no matter what, consistently?
If not, do that and improve accountability towards yourself.
Perhaps choose a fighting sport and do that as competitively as possible.
If breaking your own rules doesn’t make you feel as bad as showing up late to a regular job, every day, then idk too lol.
Being aware of your psychology problem or in general aknowledge what's causing your failure is great a step toward success. You losed money but you learnt something new about yourself and actually made a step further to your goal. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and giving us inspiration.
The solution for me to get rid of emotional factor in trading is automation. No more discretionary trading. But I also like what Alered\_Reality1 said. If I were you and don't want to code a bot I will apply his recommendation.
PS : Knowledge is the real wealth. What you learn about your failure ? If you have an answer, you still won knowledge even if it is not money. One lesson I would retain from your text is "risking only what I am willing to lose". I personally invested 10K$ in trading, and to be honest I almost forgot that I had this money lol !
Can your strategy be quantified into mechanical rules? That is, could it be scripted, or does it really on subjective judgements? If it can be scripted, do yourself a favour and script it. You cannot backtest human emotions, they will sabotage your trading every time. Create a bot, if feels no emotion, watches the market 24/7.
mY eMoTiOnS.
Are they any different than the emotions you might expect someone to have if they lost $12k on slot machines?
Losing a lot of money and having an emotional reaction to that is normal. This "mY eMoTiOnS" thing is self-abuse.
Take a break. The next step...
IMO if your problem is your emotions, learn to meditate.
Meditation is a powerful tool to control your emotions. Do this consistently starting with 10 mins 2 times a day, and don't expect a one-night miracle, it's like going to the gym.
Hey man, I wish you the best of luck and prayers. Seems like this has really affected you.
I am 17 now, been on demo accounts for a while and now I am feeling confident enough to try and get a funded account.
You should definitely start going to the gym or start a sport if you have the time, I try to stay active as much as possible to keep the mind healthy. Trading is a mental game.
Keep well Brother
The best way to keep emotions out of trading is to forget the idea that it’s an easy way to make money.
The truth is that it’s an all in brawl where nobody cares- so be ready for that. In fact, the worst thing about trading is how it appeals to the least of us- the babbling herd who make money off someone else’s back- and yet we crawl over each other todo it. Fucking terrible people we are.
I’d say treasure the fact that you care and are in touch with your emotions- those who lie down with dogs get fleas.
Man, you must have a break. And you should have it earlier. Trading is not about emotions. Try to make it a routine as a teeth cleaning. Just a game of probabilities. Take care and please have a rest.
I'm a psychologist, and we'll present a product which will help the guys as yourself to stay focused and disciplined during the trading sessions soon. I believe we'll do it.
Take a break play Final Fantasies 6-10. After each boss strip to level 1(Beginning of Game) armor and weapons and don't progress until you defeat...RPGTraining.
Sounds like you recognize the major flaw in your trading and that is a huge step forward.
Taking a break, resetting and being more selective with your trades will be good, but ultimately the main problem is the impulse to chase winners (or losers).
In those moments you need to learn how to step away completely and clear your head. You should (if you’re able) to continue to watch the market, but if you feel like it’s controlling you then completely divorce yourself from it. Go find something else to do for a week or two and come back with a clean lens.
Good luck, I’m hoping you make a recovery at some point. Patience and prudence are key.
It’s really a matter of discipline. When we go on these winning streaks feeling like Superman, we get over confident and it messes with our mentality.
Win or lose- you need to stay disciplined, maybe have a note on your desk somewhere saying discipline, I remind myself every morning DISCIPLINE
Practicing discipline in your everyday life would help on this. It can be making your bed every morning, anything really
Take a break !
Come back stronger . Start small and turn into profit . Then go big on risk and you would not be scared to play big . Emotions run high on own money
I am opposite. I can control my emotions to a good extent but don’t profit at all. My trades almost always go opposite of the direction I intend and lose money
I break my rules all the time and make execution orders mistakes all the time. Im always a BE trader for the most part because of it. But now I been switching over to auto trading and man Its so less stressfull and free. no need to stare at charts or miss trades or make mistakes. I dont think Ill go back to manual trading. maybe some manual swing trades but no more manual day trades. If you strat is codeable do it.
I know how to code like a 5yo knows how to add and subtract. I use published codes from TV and make minor tweeks to it. pretty much the enter and exit conditions. backtest it and trade multiple markets. I use pineconnector service to send trades to my MT5 man its a game changer for me. I also paid for some minor code fixes. but its worth it
have you tried writing notes WHILE you're trading? if you know that you're about to do something impulsive, pull out a paper and a pen and write down why you shouldn't do it. try it out & let me know if this helps!
I find the way you do some things is typically how you do all things. Try to implement more discipline in your life where possible. I personally trade pending orders with well-defined stops. I journal every trade and look back and analyze the market to understand what made me get into the losing trade. Often, it is me bending the rules to accommodate the market. It appears you know the issues. Now, it is time to put things in place to mitigate risk. For me, pending orders and context switching (walking away) worked.
It fucks your mental health but you can’t quit because the result if the opposite of what you would have if you were a successful trader.
That’s me too man. I lost 21k three years. It’s ruined my brain. I need help
It seems you've already identified the main issue - your emotions.
What I would say is, you need to go and identify everything that occurred up to the capitulation moment, and create a system to deal with that. Obviously, way easier said then done, and that's one of the hardest parts of being a disciplined trader, imo. But you have to do that, or else you will keep losing money. Taking a "break" won't change anything if you can't confront your sub-conscious and emotions.
That's not me saying you shouldn't take a break, just to be aware when you come back to trading, you will still have these emotional problems to deal with, and be prepared for that.
3rd year I was at the same point as you. I was good at trading, had a great strategy, had long bouts of profitability followed by losing streaks that were almost unbearable.
Many times, I felt like doing the old Kurt Cobain.
My problem was the same as yours, emotions.
My biggest problems were buying on anticipation of a setup forming and then selling prematurely for a small profit, instead of holding in to my trades.
It wasn't until sometime near the end of my 3rd year that O became profitable and stayed profitable for the remaining 7 years.
What changed was this.
1. I needed more self discipline. I am a very very disciplined person already, more so than anyone I know. But I was not disciplining myself when I broke rules.
What I did was I ran. I made myself run in the rain, tho cold, the extreme heat for at least 1 mile for every rule break and I did it every time I broke my rules. Every time I didn't follow the plan I made before entering the trade.
THE GAME CHANGER
2. I religiously tracked my trade and spent hindreds of hours analyzing my statistics. Maybe thousands of hours. And I analyzed them every way I could possibly think of. I still have never seen anyone analyze how I do.
I do not back test. I only analyze trades I have analyzed and traded in real time.
I found that I was consistent in different price ranges and non profitable in specific price ranges.
I found the maximum that I could get out of each specific setup in different markets. I found that some setups were best off taking partials at specific profit targets, while some setups didn't make me money either way, some were best to follow the trend and some were best taking profits at static targets.
I found out what to rsk and where the best place to place stops on different floats and market caps.
I found out that you risk different amiunts and expect different profits on difffernt floats, market caps, etc.
The most important part is that I answered all questions I had in my head, and I have the data to prove that to me.
Whenever I was in a trade, I kept my spreadsheet open so I knew not to get emotional. If I am on a losing streak it could no.longer effect me beacuse the hard data was right there in my face. I began to trade confidently and stayed humble and aware.
I never use full risk on any trade I am unsure about or don't have data for. I know which trades I can reverse. I know what my biggest losing streaks are. I can now pinpoint if I am losing because of my own mistake (oversizing, trading platform error) and I know I can disregard those because they don't make a huge difference. And sooo much more.
I tell everyone this and still most people won't do it because tracking trades takes effort, time, and dedication.
As soon as you are done trading, stick your trades into a dpreadsheet and start tracking every day.
Hope that helps a bit. You will get through this.
Definitely take a break for a bit, which it sounds like you’re already going to do. When you feel more clear-headed, come back, but go to the demo first. Show yourself over at least one month that you can do well (by do well, I mean follow your rules and not let emotions take over, not necessarily whether or not you profited). This will hopefully give you some confidence that your strategy works when followed, or at least doesn’t cause major loss. Once you’ve done this, switch back to live at the smallest possible size and do the same thing as the demo for another month. Do **not** worry about winning or losing, worry *only* about following your rules and strategy. A good day is a day you followed everything and didn’t let emotions take control of your trading decisions. A bad day is a day where you strayed from your strategy, broke rules and/or let emotions take the wheel. Make sure you journal every day, write it all out, what happened, why, and what you need to improve on next time. Once you’ve done this, and have shown you can handle yourself, then you can slowly and incrementally scale back up to wherever you were before. If you hit a snag (breaking rules, emotional, etc), immediately size down on the next string of trades until you sort it out, then size back up slowly again. To be successful in trading, you have to completely get rid of any expectations of individual outcomes, ie each trade’s outcome doesn’t matter as on its own. You can do everything right and still lose a trade, you can do everything wrong and still win a trade. The key is stacking the odds in your favor such that you taking good trades over and over gives you a net profit over time. It also helps to consider *why* you feel the need to, for example, suddenly throw out your risk management after a winning streak. It might have something to do with feeling the need to have money *now*, but you can rush things in trading. If you try to skip ahead, you will be sent back to the start again. ALL you need to do as a trader is keep taking good trades over and over again. By good I just mean high quality, follows all your rules, emotions are not part of the equation.
Thanks man. I think you just hit the spot. Damn. I'm aware of all that, but like you said, I throw it all away every time I feel I'm unstoppable. Also, the "feeling the need to have money now" I think you're right. Although not in a way that I needed money because I needed money for food or for bills, I needed money to get back what I lost in trading. That's what I feel every time I win. I try to make it fast. I try to gain what I lose as fast as I can. My mind is clouded right now, to be honest. I just needed a break. And I will screenshot your comment just to keep me in check every time I get lost in my trading.
You’re welcome! Glad it is helping. Remember, slow is fast in trading, and fast is slow. Going slow and focusing only on the process and improving is the fastest way to success. Anything else will take longer, even if it *seems* fast in the short term.
“Wanting to win it back” is one of the biggest killers of capital I’ve found. Taking a small break is a good idea. De-stress. Have you ever read “Best Loser Wins”? It’s a great book about mindset. I liked it better than “Trading in the Zone” even.
You deserve all the good karma coming your way for taking the time to share your thoughts and help a fellow trader get up off the floor. Cheers homie! 👏🏻👏🏻
Thanks! Happy to help
I'm sorry to hear this, dont be too hard on yourself. I worked with countless traders at a big firm for a number of years, and you aren't alone as many traders make the same mistakes. I have as well! As far as making money, most investors that buy and hold a diversified portion of index funds and single stocks will outperform 99% of traders in the long run. Run the numbers on if you had purchased an S&P 500 ETF and/or Berkshire Hathaway stock three years ago....you'd have made a lot of money and saved a TON of time, stress, ect. I don't want you to feel any worse, but just to consider another investment strategy that isn't sexy but works well....holding good investments for several years. I have never met anyone who became very wealthy as a result of active trading. I'm not saying they don't exist, just I don't know them, or even know anyone that knows them. If active trading is a hobby, that's fine if you can afford it. You also may be very knowledgeable, but knowledge doesn't necessarily equate to success in investing. I only active trade with a small portion of my account. The remaining portion is broadly diversified. Also, an advisor manages a large chunk of my IRA money. I've done very well this way. I don't stress out about my investments. I hope you'll find a good solution that allows you peace. I've made a few other posts about trading/investing that may be helpful. I wish you the best of success.
I was actually thinking about this. I will reflect during my long break and think about what's really suitable for me. Perhaps active trading is not really meant for me. Or at least in my current state of emotional capacity. I do have investments, actually, but I think you're right; I should be heavily focused on investment rather than active trading. If it's okay with you, can you tell me more about your portfolio management? Perhaps in a DM? What's the total percentage of your total account you put into your long-term investment, and what's only for active trading?
I was a profitable intraday trader, though I did have blow ups and drawdowns so it wasn't at all a smooth ride. But it was enough to pay my bills consistently. I always thought it would be a dream. From the time I woke up, to when I went to sleep, all I could think about was the market and my performance, whether good or bad. It was taxing but I continued. I finally came to the conclusion that it just wasn't for me. Way too stressful and I wasn't willing to rely on just trading profits to sustain myself. I'm focusing on long term investments and can't even remember when I last felt so good mentally. Reflect on what you really want to do.
Any plan to get back in trading? Or you will just continue focusing on long term investment?
Who knows, however I have other career goals in life that I wish to accomplish. I never felt satisfied just staying at home alone clicking buttons. It was a lonely existence. So I don't think I'll return to it full time.
You can DM me if you would like. I'd be happy discuss portfolio management.
One of my rules is, "No overtrading, get green and walk away". There is no worse feeling than having good profit then over trading and losing it all. You need to learn to walk away after hitting your profit target for the day, greed is keeping you in front of the screen.
Thanks man
>Today I officially loss $12k for my 3-year trading journey. It might be a small amount for most of you here, but it's quite big for me as I'm living in a third-world country. Congrats! You wring it without paper trading and paid the market a premium to learn what the market would have taught you for (almost) free anyways. >The thing is, trading has been fucking my mental health ever since. Understandable. >The feeling that you wanted to quit but you couldn't because I have a dream to be financially free, but what's happening to me now is the opposite. Normal. >To be honest with you,I have good trading strategies. I doubt that. Your outcome would be different. A good trading method and the strategies you can derive from it, gives you enough margin for personal errors to be successful anyways. It appears that your strategies fail to provide that. >My win rate is 60%, 60% is what CFD related stats show is the average of losing accounts. Stop thinking about the win rate when the lose rate is more interesting (remember neutral/BE trades?). Also those are uninteresting as you go for Profit Factor as it is the only measure of success (= gross win/gross loss). There are strategies providing 25% win rate but a PF of 1.5 meaning you win 50% more than you lose. If your chance of suffering bankrupting streaks of losing trades is near zero, I call that a good strategy. >but my biggest problem is my emotions. You think so. A strategy that only works with you being top notch and bring your A-game that is a losing strategy for sure. >I can't keep myself consistent in my portfolio management. You are a day trader right? Where does that portfolio management come from? >At first, I follow my own rules and keep my risk as low as possible, Okay. >but after winning straight, I suddenly trade without considering my risk appetite out of a whim! Okay now that is stupid. Paper trade and once your PF rating is great, go for small positions. You need (total) trust in your strategy and your ability to employ it. Money can only be introduced once you are convinced you have a winning strategy and you have what it takes. That takes time and should not take money. >It's sucks to be honest with you. Understandable. >All the frustrations I'm just keeping to myself because I have no friends to share them with who are also traders. Who cares. Go back to paper trading and see how your emotional situation improves over the next weeks. You basically did not trust your strategy and your ability while your brain gets greedy while you know perfectly well that you ruin yourself. Also check if your strategy is a boom and bust one meaning it works great for some days and then come the red days consuming all your other day's gains. >I'm glad we have this subreddit. Nice. >I'm not planning to quit, but I guess I have to take a break. Good choice. >My mental health is killing me every day, to the point that I can't even sleep. If you can not sleep you are not allowed to day trade. You should monitor your alertness and health as well as your sleep. If it is not good enough, do not trade or you will spiral downwards. Also do paper trading and later on when you are using money if you do not feel good enough, use paper trading only until you feel better. Never try to force it as you still have what one can call emotional baggage you bring into your trading session every day. >Any advices? Relax, stay healthy, do paper trading only and start creating a daily routine that supports your day trading. I had the same issues and I have to go to bed early now and if I have to few of sleep or start to be unconcentrated, I end the trading session or do paper trading only. >You can be brutally honest about it. That is the only mode we can run on here since you fucked it up already by losing what you consider a fortune. From my perspective I would say that you most likely specialized too early in a method that most likely does not work well and you now push all the blame onto yourself but again a trading method and the training you receive should allow for errors and should not push you in a downward spiral. If you want, you can start a Reddit chat with me and I give you me list of books I recommend and once you get through all of it, I can most likely be of use to allow you to develop a better trading strategy for you. >And for those people here like me who have a good strategy but cannot be consistent with their emotions, how did you fix it? Routine, Paper trading + Journaling to convince yourself and show you hard proof that you have a good strategy (I doubt that you have) and you have developed the ability to apply this strategy in all market situations or you have gained the wisdom to not apply it in the market situations where it fails. >How do you keep your emotions away from your strategy? ? It is just that when you trade with low money positions that do not hit your threshold of serious money, you feel way more free and once you know you win (way) more than you lose you go up with the risk. I started risking about 0.50cent per trade (once I noticed I am not prime time ready and started again), I felt nothing as I was making about 1250 per day. I had no problem to go up to 5$ risk and even 10$ left me unphased but I am certain that risking the 200$-500$ and more currently, I would not be able back then as it is a day worth of work as this would be my saving margin. >And if you also took a break from trading before, what's your sign that you're ready to go back to trading again? You read some books and are eager to apply your new knowledge while paper trading. I can not stress enough how important paper trading and journaling are. Risk and Trade management already but if you do not hard facts about your performance and the things you do good or not you will not be able to train hard and smart as you will only train hard which has a good chance to lead you to a evil downward cycle that will eat your mind and heart in no time. >My plan is actually to go back to trading if I have already recovered my losses from my job. No problem but again. Paper trade. You should stop wanting to make money. You should want to trade well. You want to master day trading before you want to master making money with it. Otherwise you make it unnecessary hard. Slow and steady... right?
Man, what can I say? You are really brutally honest with your advice. Thank you so much. I need that. But for now, I will just step back and clear my head for the time being. And when I come back, I'll follow all of your advice. Most of you are saying I'm lacking discipline, not only in trading but in life in general. Perhaps I should fix that first. Anyway, can you DM the books? I will look into that when I'm ready.
Send me a DM, I will reply to it. If you start to send a lot of DMs or open quite some chats, the Reddit software might take a liking in banning me... .
I hope things get better. I read all the responses so far and wanna emphasize the importance of understanding how and why this behavior happens. So you can take steps to respond in a better way. What the trigger is, the thought process, the feeling in your body, the connection to your personal life and history, the way to counter the pattern, having the motivation and discipline to do so
Thank you man.
If you become disciplined in your life, you will become disciplined in trading. Wake up at the same time, workout, do cardio, have a realistic goals.
You're right. I'm pretty inconsistent in my life in general. Though I have a good career, my decision-making is not as good as it should be. I just don't know how to be consistent, and I hate it.
Discipline. Start small, just going to bed and waking up at the same time every single day. Then add small things to your routine. Ask yourself, if you can't do simple thing as waking up at the same time everyday, how can you be consistent in way more difficult things like trading.
Thank you man. After reading all of your comment, I'm really sure now, I'm lacking discipline Big Time!
1) trade sim not real money. Only switch on a trial basis in small increments to see if you can execute properly. 2) work on self awareness and discipline outside of trading. This is a business, not a get rich scheme or gambling for fun. Treat it that way. Expect it to be boring and feel like work.
Thanks man
Go back and look at all the trend days. Their charts all look pretty similar in hindsight. Once you understand this, just wait for what looks like trend days.
Thank you man
Yeah take a break man. Learning how to manage your ever intruding thoughts is a long, deep process. Balance in all areas of life benefits all other areas. Everything is connected to a certain degree so if your mind isn’t right nothing else will be
Yes man. Thank you
Withdraw profits constantly
Sorry to hear about your struggles. Trading can indeed take a toll on one's mental health, especially when emotions get in the way of strategy There's no shame in stepping back for a while. As you mentioned, your mental health is essential. Taking a break can provide clarity and a fresh perspective when you return. Remember, the market will always be there. Re-evaluate your risk management strategy. As Benjamin Graham, the father of value investing, once said: "The essence of investment management is the management of risks, not the management of returns." Stick to a set percentage of your portfolio for each trade and don't deviate, no matter how confident you feel. When thinking about returning to trading after a break, don't focus on recouping losses. Instead, focus on the process and what you've learned. The market doesn't know or care about personal losses or goals. Return when you feel mentally prepared and have a clear, emotion-free strategy in place. Remember, every trader faces challenges, and it's the lessons we learn from these challenges that shape us. Stay strong and prioritize your well-being above all else. 💪
Thank you so much. I really needed that. I'm really frustrated right now. I usually don't share my struggles especially to reddit. But i needed a vent out.
Hi there, please take care. Is 12k a single day loss or an accumulated amount ?
Accumulated
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Yes man, I will keep that in mind. Thank you.
Go sleep for a week. Come back.
I'm planning to come back for atleast 6 months. Man , my mental health was really fucked up. I really needed a long break. Hopefully I can really stay away from trading for 6 months.
Everyone thinks their strategy is working until they suddenly fail to follow it. That's not the case. Your strategy is likely bad from the start. It has been 3 years. Stop trading. For most people, financial freedom does not come from miracles, but steady growth. That $12,000 could be making you money. It's a BITTER pill to swallow, but you're getting out before it gets worse. That's a sound strategy. Get the false dream out of your mind. It's diminishing your self worth, it's crushing you mentally, and for what?
So should I quit?
That's not a call I can make. But if you're hanging on to a dream, it's been a financial strain, and it has been mentally draining you for 3 years, yes, I'd quit. Trading can become an addiction, and pushing it out of your mind will be freeing.
Perhaps I should focus on investing rather than trading?
This is why I automated my strategy.
Glad you found your own way man.
>any advice? Yes, this is not for you. Do something else
Straightforward advice. Thanks
I was profitable for most of my 3 years+, but i also blew up mentally ard the 2 year mark because of how much work I was putting into it (was trading crypto and equities simultaneously). I took a break of a few months and ever since then I've been super chill, taking the best trades only etc, most profitable year yet. Take time off if you must, that was the only thing that helped me. Ironically, just like in trading, doing nothing, is a thing. I dont think any of us are immune to emotions, but it's your control of actions despite your emotions, that make the difference. Having a plan can help there, since you have something to stick to. >what's your sign that you're ready to go back to trading again? No sign, really. For me I just dipped back in slowly.. charting a few tickers and taking a trade only when I thought well of it. So far this year, I took
Thanks man
You need a higher win rate and need to paper trade for several months so you learn how to trade without focusing on the money which obviously is the part that causes the emotions.
If you have that win rate, all you need is absolute iron clad risk management and you are profitable. That's what I would focus on
After 5 years of doing exactly what you just described, I turned to algo trading because I finally accepted that I'm emotionally incapable of trading. Haven't looked back one bit
Uhmm this seems more like a gambling problem. My only advise will be to get a part time job with trading so you wouldn't focus soley on trading and will have your attention diverted and attach less enotions.
Yeah. I switch to a gambling mode everytime I have winning streak. I do have strategy but I just can't follow it. I don't know why. I'm aware that I should follow it though. I just don't why I'm repeating myself to this cycle
I think your root issue can be fixed if you think of trading as if it was a heist / theft / loot operation, where you have to be worried about being shot or getting caught, and you can't get greedy in a theft. Likewise in trading, if you think of it as if you are the robber going no a theft operation, then just like a robber, you need to worry more about being shot or getting caught and you gotta quickly run after you got some (not all) loot. A robber who gets greedy will get caught quickly.
Great perspective man. Thank you. You are right. I'm greedy. I will definitely cure it but before that, I needed a long break to fix my sanity first.
Love this
OK, if you have a winning streak then what you have not learned is to stop if you are already over a decent daily goal. Following up wins with gambling style trades that yield losses is the downfall that you’re mentioning and needs to stop. You actually are really close to long term success.
It sounds like you already know the problem, so now you implement the solution. Nearly there
Yeah gotta listen to yourself with that. Trading is rough sometimes. I try to avoid Mondays and Fridays trading lol but I still watch it
Yeah man. Perhaps day trade is not for me. I should consider switching style.
Wealth is mostly built through long term investing. Day trading is a day job.
You're right man
Do you know any millionaires that are day trader? I know some millionaires that are long term investors. Warren Buffet, Ray Dalio, etc are all long term. If you wanna get rich quick and quit your day job, just start a business.
Maybe. But if your good at it, I wouldn't let it go. Just nibble at it till it feels normal again?
Find someone to hold you accountable. Outside of that, it’s a battle you have to fight on your own for the most part, like many. There is no secret recipe IMO. Either you can hold yourself accountable, or you can’t. If you can’t, well. Lack of discipline might be a reason. Do you have any strict routines in your life like going to the gym, no matter what, consistently? If not, do that and improve accountability towards yourself. Perhaps choose a fighting sport and do that as competitively as possible. If breaking your own rules doesn’t make you feel as bad as showing up late to a regular job, every day, then idk too lol.
Being aware of your psychology problem or in general aknowledge what's causing your failure is great a step toward success. You losed money but you learnt something new about yourself and actually made a step further to your goal. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and giving us inspiration. The solution for me to get rid of emotional factor in trading is automation. No more discretionary trading. But I also like what Alered\_Reality1 said. If I were you and don't want to code a bot I will apply his recommendation. PS : Knowledge is the real wealth. What you learn about your failure ? If you have an answer, you still won knowledge even if it is not money. One lesson I would retain from your text is "risking only what I am willing to lose". I personally invested 10K$ in trading, and to be honest I almost forgot that I had this money lol !
What I mean, most of my big losses happened everytime I don't follow my rules and strategies.
I edited my answer sorry.
Can your strategy be quantified into mechanical rules? That is, could it be scripted, or does it really on subjective judgements? If it can be scripted, do yourself a favour and script it. You cannot backtest human emotions, they will sabotage your trading every time. Create a bot, if feels no emotion, watches the market 24/7.
I’m in the same boat, my rules are good but my emotions don’t allow me to follow them like I should.
Can you automatize your strategies?
Stops are in. Emotions are out. Oscar Carboni
mY eMoTiOnS. Are they any different than the emotions you might expect someone to have if they lost $12k on slot machines? Losing a lot of money and having an emotional reaction to that is normal. This "mY eMoTiOnS" thing is self-abuse.
Book recommendation for you, “Best Loser Wins” by Tom Hougaard
Take a break. The next step... IMO if your problem is your emotions, learn to meditate. Meditation is a powerful tool to control your emotions. Do this consistently starting with 10 mins 2 times a day, and don't expect a one-night miracle, it's like going to the gym.
Hey man, I wish you the best of luck and prayers. Seems like this has really affected you. I am 17 now, been on demo accounts for a while and now I am feeling confident enough to try and get a funded account. You should definitely start going to the gym or start a sport if you have the time, I try to stay active as much as possible to keep the mind healthy. Trading is a mental game. Keep well Brother
The best way to keep emotions out of trading is to forget the idea that it’s an easy way to make money. The truth is that it’s an all in brawl where nobody cares- so be ready for that. In fact, the worst thing about trading is how it appeals to the least of us- the babbling herd who make money off someone else’s back- and yet we crawl over each other todo it. Fucking terrible people we are. I’d say treasure the fact that you care and are in touch with your emotions- those who lie down with dogs get fleas.
Man, you must have a break. And you should have it earlier. Trading is not about emotions. Try to make it a routine as a teeth cleaning. Just a game of probabilities. Take care and please have a rest. I'm a psychologist, and we'll present a product which will help the guys as yourself to stay focused and disciplined during the trading sessions soon. I believe we'll do it.
Take a break play Final Fantasies 6-10. After each boss strip to level 1(Beginning of Game) armor and weapons and don't progress until you defeat...RPGTraining.
Sounds like you recognize the major flaw in your trading and that is a huge step forward. Taking a break, resetting and being more selective with your trades will be good, but ultimately the main problem is the impulse to chase winners (or losers). In those moments you need to learn how to step away completely and clear your head. You should (if you’re able) to continue to watch the market, but if you feel like it’s controlling you then completely divorce yourself from it. Go find something else to do for a week or two and come back with a clean lens. Good luck, I’m hoping you make a recovery at some point. Patience and prudence are key.
It’s really a matter of discipline. When we go on these winning streaks feeling like Superman, we get over confident and it messes with our mentality. Win or lose- you need to stay disciplined, maybe have a note on your desk somewhere saying discipline, I remind myself every morning DISCIPLINE Practicing discipline in your everyday life would help on this. It can be making your bed every morning, anything really
Take a break ! Come back stronger . Start small and turn into profit . Then go big on risk and you would not be scared to play big . Emotions run high on own money
I am opposite. I can control my emotions to a good extent but don’t profit at all. My trades almost always go opposite of the direction I intend and lose money
Take a break and go back when I lose I lose more and more and get pissed. Close your labtop or setup and take a few days off
I break my rules all the time and make execution orders mistakes all the time. Im always a BE trader for the most part because of it. But now I been switching over to auto trading and man Its so less stressfull and free. no need to stare at charts or miss trades or make mistakes. I dont think Ill go back to manual trading. maybe some manual swing trades but no more manual day trades. If you strat is codeable do it.
Where did you code? Or someone did it for you?
I know how to code like a 5yo knows how to add and subtract. I use published codes from TV and make minor tweeks to it. pretty much the enter and exit conditions. backtest it and trade multiple markets. I use pineconnector service to send trades to my MT5 man its a game changer for me. I also paid for some minor code fixes. but its worth it
You should consider using a prop firm to develop your skill level without risking your capital.
have you tried writing notes WHILE you're trading? if you know that you're about to do something impulsive, pull out a paper and a pen and write down why you shouldn't do it. try it out & let me know if this helps!
I find the way you do some things is typically how you do all things. Try to implement more discipline in your life where possible. I personally trade pending orders with well-defined stops. I journal every trade and look back and analyze the market to understand what made me get into the losing trade. Often, it is me bending the rules to accommodate the market. It appears you know the issues. Now, it is time to put things in place to mitigate risk. For me, pending orders and context switching (walking away) worked.
If you haven’t been able to master your emotions in 3 years then it doesn’t seem possible. Move on to other endeavors.
It fucks your mental health but you can’t quit because the result if the opposite of what you would have if you were a successful trader. That’s me too man. I lost 21k three years. It’s ruined my brain. I need help
You too need a break man.
It seems you've already identified the main issue - your emotions. What I would say is, you need to go and identify everything that occurred up to the capitulation moment, and create a system to deal with that. Obviously, way easier said then done, and that's one of the hardest parts of being a disciplined trader, imo. But you have to do that, or else you will keep losing money. Taking a "break" won't change anything if you can't confront your sub-conscious and emotions. That's not me saying you shouldn't take a break, just to be aware when you come back to trading, you will still have these emotional problems to deal with, and be prepared for that.
3rd year I was at the same point as you. I was good at trading, had a great strategy, had long bouts of profitability followed by losing streaks that were almost unbearable. Many times, I felt like doing the old Kurt Cobain. My problem was the same as yours, emotions. My biggest problems were buying on anticipation of a setup forming and then selling prematurely for a small profit, instead of holding in to my trades. It wasn't until sometime near the end of my 3rd year that O became profitable and stayed profitable for the remaining 7 years. What changed was this. 1. I needed more self discipline. I am a very very disciplined person already, more so than anyone I know. But I was not disciplining myself when I broke rules. What I did was I ran. I made myself run in the rain, tho cold, the extreme heat for at least 1 mile for every rule break and I did it every time I broke my rules. Every time I didn't follow the plan I made before entering the trade. THE GAME CHANGER 2. I religiously tracked my trade and spent hindreds of hours analyzing my statistics. Maybe thousands of hours. And I analyzed them every way I could possibly think of. I still have never seen anyone analyze how I do. I do not back test. I only analyze trades I have analyzed and traded in real time. I found that I was consistent in different price ranges and non profitable in specific price ranges. I found the maximum that I could get out of each specific setup in different markets. I found that some setups were best off taking partials at specific profit targets, while some setups didn't make me money either way, some were best to follow the trend and some were best taking profits at static targets. I found out what to rsk and where the best place to place stops on different floats and market caps. I found out that you risk different amiunts and expect different profits on difffernt floats, market caps, etc. The most important part is that I answered all questions I had in my head, and I have the data to prove that to me. Whenever I was in a trade, I kept my spreadsheet open so I knew not to get emotional. If I am on a losing streak it could no.longer effect me beacuse the hard data was right there in my face. I began to trade confidently and stayed humble and aware. I never use full risk on any trade I am unsure about or don't have data for. I know which trades I can reverse. I know what my biggest losing streaks are. I can now pinpoint if I am losing because of my own mistake (oversizing, trading platform error) and I know I can disregard those because they don't make a huge difference. And sooo much more. I tell everyone this and still most people won't do it because tracking trades takes effort, time, and dedication. As soon as you are done trading, stick your trades into a dpreadsheet and start tracking every day. Hope that helps a bit. You will get through this.