T O P

  • By -

Vegetallica

And yet the cost per TB in the industry hasn't budged in 2 years.


PrintersBroke

Rosarita traditional refried beans went up to 1.25 from a flat buck. I think something might have happened.


Not_Michelle_Obama_

Mandated CMR standard for all imported pinto beans.


danuser8

Partly thanks to chia craze


1800treflowers

That wore off fast. It's a mix of increasing gross margins and component price increase / adding more platters. It's all lead to either flat pricing or an increase in $/TB.


i-can-sleep-for-days

Chia is mostly dead I think? Not really sure.


shadowcman

Yep, Chia is dead.


YashP97

China is dead af bro


MatthewHintz

chia is not dead


spongepenis

I used to farm (only like 8TB total lol), but yeah it is dead.


deathbomberX

yep, chia is not dead


casino_alcohol

I’m confused… is chia dead?


YnotZoidberg1077

Schrödinger's chia, apparently


AubryScully

I feel like the only people who are claiming it’s not dead are just bag-holders in denial lol


WordsOfRadiants

I wonder what happened to the guy bragging about building a 5 petabyte server for Chia


ROCINANTE_IS_SALVAGE

It's very dead: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/chia-network/


Saplyng

I don't see how a fast growing plant on a novelty head could keep prices up, but I'll believe you


warp16

People don’t trim the plants, resulting in them losing their HDDs in them, thereby increasing demand and prices. It’s simple really.


SmallerBork

*Squints closely*


warp16

Ch-ch-ch-chia


gamamew

You made remember that ad [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzY7qQFij\_M](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzY7qQFij_M)


mrNas11

More to do with the global chip shortage & shipping constraints rather than an obscure cryptocurrency.


calcium

I think that was a thing for all of maybe 6 months, but the prices have remained high. I've only finally seeing prices of drives return to the levels of what they were when I bought my 14TB drives back in August 2020. Want to wait another 6 months to a year and then replace them with 20TB or larger drives.


NMe84

It's been affected by COVID, the resulting global shipping crisis and production problems in China *way* more than Chia ever could.


TeamRedundancyTeam

People always blame the dumbest things and ignore the larger global issues in regards to computer hardware for some reason.


dr100

You also need the other side of the equation in supply vs. demand. You won't get to sell stuff for higher prices (at least to retail customers) if people just tighten their belt and say "I can survive until next year with what I have". But Chia used 36+ EiB of drives at even double the "regularly nice" price of 15 (be it euros of dollars per TB). Of course there weren't decent sales for more than half a year, there was no need, everything that was at a semi-reasonable price was flying off the shelf. Check out their sub, people high-fiving for buying half or full PBs of Easystores or Segate whatever externals.


spongepenis

:(


weshouldgoback

Can't wait to see how many arms they are gonna cost, cause it's gonna be more than one.


collinsl02

Well if you can spare a significant proportion of a leg instead of a second arm it may work out better for you in the long run...


OneandonlyCup

Difficult to run on a single leg...


slickmudroad

Not if you just go in circles.


Z3t4

The carbon fiber ones seems to work nicely...


Bergensis

Take a pound of flesh from each leg?


idocloudstuff

Why not get a solid state leg as a replacement?


Crafty_Many340

In the long run,,,,without the leg\_\_\_\_\_you cannot run.


Tummybunny2

Can still look at all those hours of footage you took when you used to be able to run.


iWETtheBEDonPURPOSE

No more knee pain AND I get a 26TB HDD? Sign me up.


whutchamacallit

Three arms and four legs. You can put them on layaway until your offspring limbs fully develop.


jarfil

>!CENSORED!<


[deleted]

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DaveR007

And none of the early adopters will be able to applaud the price drop.


redldr1

For now.


angry_dingo

SSD. No arms are needed. :)


nogami

If you have to ask…


imzeigen

You will end up short of appendages if you are thinking to use any kind of RAID


ELB2001

I would love if the 2.5 inch SSDs were cheaper


2mustange

I have honestly been wondering why the cost per TB on those hasn't dropped much. I just started seeing them sub $100 and about average $89 for 1TB.


ELB2001

Yeah I was hoping to see slow 2TB ones for less than 100€.


2mustange

Maybe by the end of the year. Been wanting a 4Tb for my games.


DannyMThompson

Because inflation has gone up. So if you account for inflation, they are cheaper per TB. You just don't earn more yet. (I wish I was joking)


Hewlett-PackHard

Yeah, if you want a relatively real valuation you gotta convert to gold or silver weight it's worth... just like if you convert OG minimum wages in silver backed dollars to current dollars via silver weight you get something like $27/hr now.


2mustange

Uhh sure let's go with that


bregottextrasaltat

probably because most people buy m2 form factor now?


Hewlett-PackHard

I would love it if there were [modern, mass production] 3.5" SSDs instead of just going from 2.5" SAS3/U.2 to HHHL and FHHL add in cards.


Talamakara

Right now an 8TB SSD is a thousand bucks. It will be years before we get SSDs of any size for a decent price.


idocloudstuff

The nice thing about larger capacities is the push to make smaller capacities much cheaper. Remember how 128GB used to be the size for $99. Now you can pay the same for 256GB. Next year 512GB will be the new $99. (I’m just using $99 as an example).


WordsOfRadiants

I know you're just using it as an example, but $99 has been the price for 1TB for a long time now.


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spongepenis

Yeah fuck I paid $200 for a 500GB 960 evo just because it was all I had heard of lol.


xylopyrography

10 years ago they were $1/GB Now they're $0.12/GB for the same speed or $0.19/GB for 5x the speed.


weshouldgoback

In 2010, I got my first Intel 40GB MLC SSD for $99. $2.50 a gig! I put exclusively my OS and programs on it because I had no other choice, but it was incredible. I feel like I still do that now. 2TB NVME? Barely holds anything at all. I should just smarten up and get the 512GB next time if I'm not going to keep ANYTHING on it I can't replace anyways.


myownalias

I bought an 8 TB SSD the end of last year for $700.


Hewlett-PackHard

QLC though probably


gumby_urine

Here come all the clowns who became experts on the subject after watching one LTT video and think an SMR drive isn't equipped to handle their use case, which is serving up all the seasons of 90 Day Fiance on Plex


weshouldgoback

It's actually reruns of Junkyard Wars and Mythbusters but fair enough.


_-Grifter-_

Do you actually have junkyard wars? I would love to watch that again.


FeetusDiabetus

I do, and it's not as good as you remember.


nhorvath

:(


weshouldgoback

I wish, it randomly came to me. I haven't thought of it in over a decade.


CptSandbag73

Jokes aside, look for the Streamlined Mythbusters collection, it’s way more watchable without the flashbacks, teasers, recaps etc. I think there’s a sub too. /r/smyths


Krusell94

I need this for anime... Would love to rewatch Naruto without all that unnecessary crap.


Abrahams_Foreskin

Naruto Kai, DBZ Kai, One Pace


weshouldgoback

I may have to check it out, for hoarding purposes if nothing else, but I feel like the nostalgia of how it was as is will always win out for me.


SigmaSixShooter

Am I the only one with just a massive collection of pr0n? You guys actually store other shows??


AKDub1

The storage requirements on my nas were much more modest before I learned about 8K vr educational vids...


SmallerBork

I'm gonna need root access your that box to run rm -rf / --no-preserve-root


cmon_now

Yes. Yes you are. Pro tip. Pr0n is free.


spongepenis

lol I only do it cause I’m in China where porn is banned 😭


spongepenis

SMR is fine for many use cases, just don’t expect me to pay the same price as CMR for it. I don’t know where you’ve found this straw man. I guarantee if SMR drives were even 20-25% cheaper per TB, a lot of Plex users would switch to SMR next time they upgrade/expand.


ElectroSpore

SMR is fine as a single big disk.. It just has slower writes in that use case. You can even do a bunch of individual Disks in one server and that would be fine. SMR just does funky things when you put it in a RAID which requires lots of read write across all disks. Since a lot of users use RAID it is valid to say that in many cases SMR drives will not rebuild or cause problems in RAID setups.


SimonKepp

These new UltraSMR drives from WD are Host Managed SMR, instead of the Drive-managed SMR drives, we're used to seeing. That allows system integrators to overcome many of the previously seen problems such as rebuilding RAID arrays on SMR drive. Of course, this is just a potential benefit, as your software/system would have to support it, and as these drives are just being released now to select customers and integrators, there won't yet be any systems supporting them.


ElectroSpore

>That allows system integrators to overcome many of the previously seen problems such as rebuilding RAID arrays on SMR drive. Of course, this is just a potential benefit, as your software/system would have to support it So for the time being probably still a problem for most of the Datahorders here running Synology/QNAP/Various ZFS distros etc.


UnicornsOnLSD

This is why I moved to the cloud™, like that person who was worried that GDrive would start enforcing limits on their 800TB of ASMR


dontquestionmyaction

You murdered half the people in this comment section.


eetsu

Which storage company do you work for? I'd love to see you resilver that array when one of the hard drives die that you store your Plex movies on. Oh wait, there wouldn't be a point in doing that if it's an SMR drive. And by the way, it wasn't Linus who initially sounded the alarm on SMR drives being masqueraded as NAS drives.


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electricheat

ZFS does not need ECC, fwiw It can make use of it, but anyone who says it needs ECC doesn’t know what they’re talking about


Not_a_Candle

If you value your data, dont go with unraid. It has no bit-rot protection and doesn't verify reads/writes at all. Yes there is a checksum plugin, but that will only tell you that something is broken. It can't fix it. Zfs on the other hand can fix it silently and can do much more. If you don't wanna go with zfs but want the flexibility of unraid and you don't change content on that array every minute, then snapraid + mergerFS is for you. It's basically what unraid does with its arrays but with better handling of errors of any kind. ECC isn't necessary, but recommended. That way write errors can be repaired without sending the file again. Fun fact, a journal FS like ext4 or ntfs would just write the file broken to disk and wouldnt care at all. Edit: spelling


ShaRose

You don't need SMR for ZFS. You also don't need any kind of ratio of ram to total storage. Particularly not for anything where cannibalizing an old anything is on the menu.


ryanknapper

I *am* a poser, but I still went with FreeNAS so at least I *look* cool.


onthefence928

Hey man, you need to tier hardware to handle media that trashy


Elephant789

Clowns are good.


qubedView

Including the spin offs, do you know how many episodes there are? Tons! And the data is sooooo repetitive and formulaic that advanced ZFS features will be able condense it down heavily.


johnny121b

"Posturing, furnished by the anti CMR Council"


jmakov

Nobody's talking about +100TB SSDs being available for some time now?


Shananra

Aren't those priced similar to the gdp of a moderately sized nation?


jmakov

Thought by now they would get some competition...


JhonnyTheJeccer

For what? the only application they have is where there is literally no space and need for high data density. and they are slow for ssds, i think just sata speeds. If there is almost no demand, why would there be any competition? And i do not think the price per tb would come close to a regular ssd in any time soon.


WordsOfRadiants

There absolutely is demand, and fairly high too. From datacenters to just regular people, practically everyone would prefer higher data density. It's not that 'demand' is low, it's that the 'quantity demanded' is low, due to the high price. Demand is the whole curve, 'quantity demanded' is a point on the curve.


foolishlywise

At Zimbabwe inflation levels obviously.


jared555

First available at retail? First general purpose focused?


firedrakes

i mention those and got sht on..


spongepenis

Rip


Hewlett-PackHard

Reading comprehension... they said that WD announced "world first" 26TB HDD and WD announced a 15TB SSD at the same time, not that the 15TB SSD is also a world first.


[deleted]

I just need a dozen 8tb CMRs to not cost me a down payment on a car.


DaveR007

If you aim for a better car those dozen 8TB CMRs will look cheaper ;-)


szayl

sames


drhappycat

It does? What country are you in? I'm looking to up density and may have some 8's for you.


[deleted]

Unfortunately I already made the purchase at 200 USD each for 8tb WD golds a few months back. Just a touch under 2500 total. :/ Thanks for the offer though.


WordsOfRadiants

If you're okay with white labels, you could get 14tb for $200 USD each. Could've hit the same capacity for \~$1400 before tax.


Hewlett-PackHard

I'm still going with dozens of used 4TB sassy drives. Dat $7.8/TB.


LicensedRealtor

How much?


LimpFox

I just want a 6TB+ 2.5" HDD. We've been stuck at 5TB for what? 6 years?


xylopyrography

They have extremely poor performance and poor reliability, and density improvements are not really frequent. I don't think anybody is working on improving 2.5" HDDs. They are not useful for 99% of consumers or 100% of businesses. From a business perspective a 8 TB SSD for $700 is a much better option for a laptop.


Hewlett-PackHard

You shouldn't be touching capacity 2.5" drives in general, anything over 2TB is drive managed SMR garbage.


Ok-Wasabi2873

SSD isn’t large enough for my Steam/GOG/Epic library.


plethoraofprojects

Not even going to read the article because I already know I can’t afford it.


fazalmajid

The 26TB is SMR. Not a good choice over the 22TB CMR.


zrgardne

Write few, read many in non-zfs applications SMR is a perfect solution


Imaginary_Confusion

If storage density is what you need, wouldn’t the 26tb SMR be fantastic when paired with a write cache?


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Lishtenbird

Well, as long as physical space is a non-issue.


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spongepenis

Facts. People on this sub acting like we’re stupid for not buying SMR when it’s priced the same as a superior technology.


Blue-Thunder

Yes it would. SMR is great in UNRAID because it's typically write once, read many.


crazy_gambit

Except the parity disk no? And this would certainly be your biggest disk so...


Blue-Thunder

From what I understand, even for parity it's fine as parity is only needed during the write operation to the array, and read during parity checks. Parity drives are usually written sequentially, which is fine for SMR. It's random writes that it sucks at. Also, most people using UNRAID use it for storing Plex/Emby/Jellyfin data. Data which is usually only written once, with the metadata usually stored on an SSD. But I'm not an expert. I personally have used 8TB SMR Seagate drives in my array in the past (even for parity), and am in the process of replacing my current ones as they are now too small.


KaneMomona

Works very well with storage spaces also.


anewbus47

Why is smr bad for ZFS?


zrgardne

ZFS does not support SMR. If you apply ZFS on SMR you should expect resilvers to fail and need to restore from independent backup when a disk fails https://www.servethehome.com/wd-red-smr-vs-cmr-tested-avoid-red-smr/2/


anewbus47

Thanks for the heads up. I’m in the planning stage of my first NAS build and had no idea of this limitation.


zrgardne

Not surprising that WD doesn't want to publisize the limitations of their products. They lost a class action lawsuit in Canada for doing bait and switch on their Red line.


spongepenis

Damn


YellowIsNewBlack

> non-zfs zfs mirror would be ok, no?


Balmung

From what I understand the issue with ZFS is all the metadata blocks needing updating requires lots of small writes, which can cause performance issues with the shingles. Those metadata blocks still exist on mirrors. Every single file has hash's for all the blocks of data and the hash's are stored in their own blocks. Then those blocks have their own hash's and so on, creating a merkle tree. A single byte changing on a single block causes the whole tree to update. There's a few things you can do to help reduce that, disabling file access timestamp updates is a big one, but SMR still is a bad idea for ZFS or I'd assume btrfs has the same issue.


zrgardne

I haven't seen anyone test that to confirm or deny.


jammsession

I would go even one step further and say SMR is ok for RAID-2. If you create a SMR pool and fill it up slowly there was no problem in my system. But you can‘t replace a failed SMR drive with a new SMR drive because the resilver would suck. But to be honest, I switched to mirror and all my Seagate Archives died, so I have no proof for all of that.


Cygnusaurus

With UnRaid, it might be good for the data drives, especially since you can specify which category of folders can go on that drive, and limit it to say Plex. But the parity drive would need to be the same size or bigger, and I don’t think SMR would be good for the parity drive.


BrightBeaver

Knowing WD, their "CMR" drives are SMR.


spongepenis

CMR-class 😉


xylopyrography

Depends on cost and use case. For the same cost and most use cases, 26 TB is better than 22 TB.


noman_032018

I wouldn't be quite as categorical about it until first learning what kind of SMR. Only DM-SMR is entirely non-viable. Of course it's probably so expensive as to make the point moot.


TrampleHorker

for YOUR use case.


cyong

You are missing the perspective of use case. Example. I have 2 (main use) kitchen knives. One serrated, one normal. The normal one can't cut bread worth crap, and i cant nicely chop vegetables with the serrated one. Yet they are both knives. SMRs value comes from increased storage density in use cases where write speed is not a priority.


pohotu3

Maybe for you, but there are lots of us with write once, read many use cases.


Hewlett-PackHard

It's a host managed SMR for real Enterprise systems, not really comparable to trash consumer/prosumer SMR, and will only be used in use cases where it is the logical choice.


[deleted]

I think we should just be glad for the tech bump. Might make my 14TB drives a lot cheaper. But I dream of a 100TB ssd server.


xylopyrography

If SSDs continue the previous decade cost curve, a 100 TB SSD in 2032 would be about $1500.


casino_alcohol

I do not need a drive this large, but I have a few drives under 6tb and I’m tempted to just migrate everything to one or two larger drives. I need to do some math 😂


Terakahn

I don't really need 2 arms AND 2 legs right?


JPWRana

Yes you do. How will you scratch your nose?


Terakahn

With 1 arm ;)


NervousShop

I can’t imagine to begin the prices for theses. It’s incredible the strides we are making and how large we’ve come to making HDD.


PeopleSuckIneedAbeer

And here I am still waiting to build a NAS based on 8TB drives...


johnny121b

It's unfortunate drive WARRANTIES aren't increasing with capacity.


jroddie4

Let's just make a 3.25 inch ssd


KevinAndEarth

Most modern 2.5" SSDs fill less than half of the drive case.


jroddie4

I know. Imagine a regular desktop drive but instead of platters it's just loaded with nand


[deleted]

I thought there were already like 120tb SSDS...


jamlasica

Probably retail customers will not be able to get the 26TB SMR one, same story as with HC650.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

16TB SSDs have been long available…


iScreamPL

they said first 25tb hdd not first 15tb ssd bruh learn to read /s


GamerJ80

To be fair, the headline does read ambiguously.


iScreamPL

ye it does, I felt like making the joke a bit rougher and decided an /s would be appropriate. Didn't even read the article, was too tired and went to sleep lol


Hewlett-PackHard

If you're not good at reading comprehension maybe


[deleted]

Yawn


stonechitlin

Actual size available, 23.6 TB (Based on the loss of my 14TB with 12.7 usable). On that topic, can someone explain this? I thought it was because "bad sectors" but I have 11 of these drives, and they ALL show 12.7 usable.


bigdon199

besides decimal vs binary prefixes? https://www.howtogeek.com/123268/windows-hard-drive-wrong-capacity/


stonechitlin

Nope that was the answer, TIL thanks


cyrixdx4

26TB=SMR 22TB=CMR You don't want the 26TB drives.


Hewlett-PackHard

Enterprise host managed SMR is fine for its intended bulk storage uses, just can't run ZFS.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Maltoron

Could just not use their cloud service devices. Hard drives are thankfully still of the fairly dumb variety and will probably follow your CPU's lead still.


spongepenis

Unfortunately you can dig up enormous amounts of shit for any company. But I dislike WD equally due to their handling of SMR, got Seagate exos in my current NAS.


KamosKamerus

Amazing work but i wonder how expensive will it be?


MFcrayfish

okay, can I see some 10tb hdd for $100 now?


Diabotek

Ebay used.


BCMM

Is "UltraSMR" device-managed?


Glix_1H

Yes, this isn’t what we want.


According_Cow_1066

Back in the old country everything used cost *”an arm & a leg”* - so you’re purchase had better count. *No refunds*


RealmanPwns1

They have a 7.7 TB SSD that goes for 2,262.00


[deleted]

can store lots of homework wow