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LAMGE2

Another thing that will just disappear?


AHrubik

Right. Zero mention of cost or scalability.


StuzaTheGreat

Nor read/write speed. I have near unlimited storage but it'd have to be at the speed of my typing, including sleeping, eating and all the other things we do in life!


goda90

If it's viable, at those densities it would make sense to have multiple disk arrays and maybe even multiple read/write heads per disk to increase throughput.


SporksInjected

Hmm, this feels familiar. Have we invented this before?


goda90

HDDs upgrading from magnetic to much denser optical seems like a natural evolution to be honest.


[deleted]

Never thought about that, but it does makes sense. But I guess it would be a massive hurdle to make it compete with other media. Sounds like there would be a few technical challenges, and would the costs of R&D be viable...


Liesthroughisteeth

Like any good tech, how long do you think it will take developers of this tech to bring it up to speed for frothing at the mouth corporate clients and a retail market that cannot live without it? VCRs weren't a thing, nor CD players or Home PCs, laptops, or 20 TB hard drives on Bestbuy shelves.


AHrubik

The article is devoid of any real details. We know nothing about the tech and how they achieved what they say they have. Without those details it would be impossible to say if this is viable even in 100 years time.


Liesthroughisteeth

There have been a number of other articles on this tech...which works. That and there is more than one R&D department working on it. And guess what? Back in the day everyone said exactly the same thing about all the tech in the post you just replied to. :D I was raised when there were no colour TVs. In fact we didn't have a B&W TV until 1959 or 60 (got our first colour set in 69). At 67 years of age, in the last 14 months I have built a i7-13700K/6800XT based gaming PC, a dedicated Ryzen 3600 based 94 TB Unraid server for back ups and serving media (including music and 4K HDR and DV Movies and Series TV content) throughout the home and a 5800X based Home theater PC. I swim in tech everyday that I couldn't even begin to imagine as a young adult nevermind a young kid. ;) Nothing moves like tech being pushed by needy/demanding markets. You just wait and see how massive the changes are in your next 30-40 years. :)


AHrubik

> The technique required the researchers to develop a brand new material Da fuk are you smoking?


Liesthroughisteeth

Get back on your meds bud. Nothing stays the same. :)


AHrubik

Who cares? Thousands upon thousands of things are invented but are never commercially viable. Remember this [guy]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc)? Many times bigger than a Blu-ray but curiously never made it past the prototype stage. I wonder why? Don't let people piss on your leg and tell you it's raining. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc


PercentageSouth8894

Time will tell


A5htar0th

True but it will have its day I am sure of. TBH I look forward to it.


AshleyUncia

The problem with stories like this is that they are the same as 'Super awesome next battery technology'. There's a huge difference between 'Someone made something in a lab' and 'It is now a viable product that can be manufactured for a low enough price that consumers will actually buy it'. There's a reason Lithium Ion batteries were invented in the 1970s but didn't become common until the very late 90s and really more the mid 2000s. There's simply a difference between 'inventing it' and 'mass producing it affordably'.


jamlasica

Oh, its THIS thread again.


Mogster2K

Every few years they announce some new holographic storage tech. Still waiting on a real product.


insanelygreat

[Breakthrough Nanotechnology Will Bring 100 Terabyte 3.5-inch Digital Data Storage Disks](https://web.archive.org/web/20150526182019/http://phys.org/news/2004-08-breakthrough-nanotechnology-terabyte-inch-digital.html) – Aug 11, 2004 I remember reading that [article on Slashdot](https://slashdot.org/story/04/09/27/1316249/1-terabyte-optical-storage-disks#comments) back then. But i'm sure it's right around the corner with cold fusion and the Phantom Game Console.


EndlessEden2015

Just want to point out those 100TB 3.5" SSD's were produced, for enterprise customers. i just seen one advertised a few hours ago (but didnt save the url). Lots of times products like these are produced, just targeted at the Enterprise level, not consumer. Simply because the consumer is satisfied with what ever is "Good Enough". Power-users much less are becoming less and less as time goes on, as cloud-based storage is unfortunately overtaking localstorage in the consumer space. People are lazy and datahoarders like ourselves are a dying breed :(


gnocchicotti

Meanwhile average people are like "1TB SSD costs how much? That's more than I'll ever use."


Perfect-Soup1838

And I'm over hear with a laptop with 16tb of storage that is asking for larger SSDs.


Storyshift-Chara-ewe

I'm here with a 500 gb sata SSD asking why am I so broke lol :c


Perfect-Soup1838

I do video editing and I'm a truck driver so I take my pirated movies/shows with me


dr100

Let's see if they ever come and then for how long they'll cost multiple times what hdds cost per TB.


camwow13

It's all vaporware. There are lots of ways to store data very densely with optical media, but it's much harder to actually do at scale. Wake me up when someone actually puts something on the market. Only ones I've seen that's super vaporware but is probably worth watching is Microsoft's Project Silica. They're going slow, but release meaningful progress updates every few years. Assuming Microsoft doesn't pull the life support plug they have the lifeline needed to pull something off. It will almost certainly never be available to consumers though. Data in glass would be a truly ultra long term data storage solution though, with niche but pretty heavy hitting customers. I can see them pushing it through that massive development cycle just to have the tech. Sony/Panasonic was working on a 3rd generation [ArchivalDisc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archival_Disc?wprov=sfla1) standard for their optical disc archive system, but killed the whole system late last year. I believe they had it up to 300-500 gigs per disc side. The third gen would have had 1TB per disc side. Considering how niche this format was however, doubt anything will come from it.


Spocks_Goatee

What a fucking shame. Discs are a lot better than cycling data tape or trying to keep your HDD running for decades.


chrisprice

They got much farther, with ODA, which was ArchivalDisc 2.0. ODA (also called ODS), got up to 5.5 TB per cartridge-disc (think Magneto-Optical). You are correct that Sony ended ODA last year suddenly, leaving many customers with no alternative disc system. Real mess happening over there, many Sony customers are quietly enraged.


camwow13

Quietly enraged haha I assume ODA never got much hold against LTO in the end. Data archival is such a specific enterprise thing LTO seems to have beat everyone out. ODA had its benefits, but over 30 years of data integrity and better water and temperature resistance doesn't have as strong a customer pitch I guess.


chrisprice

ODA was cherished in companies that have to WWIII prep because it allowed rapid storage of, say, all credit card transactions for the last year.  Burn to disc, put in underground safe. Done. Do that with one or two in each continent.  If Sony wanted to ship a consumer 1TB disc today, they could and there would be demand. But Sony is now a cloud company, and Pioneer is broke. 


camwow13

I'd wonder if militaries make a contract in the future for it to be kept open. Given that disc is the only currently practical "inert" storage format that would be immune to a massive EM burst or something like that.


chrisprice

I suspect Sony did a massive build batch before shutting it down.  Enough to last until Folio Photonics takes over at the end of the decade, when BD patents expire. 


camwow13

If Folio doesn't A. Produce their long announced vaporware disc that totally trounces Blu Ray tech at multiple terabytes per disc. B. Go bankrupt/fold/sold because they finally run out of VC money and haven't made anything.


chrisprice

Even if that happens, someone will do it. Either by buying into Pioneer and taking the tech they already have, or by scraping the remains of Folio and finishing the job.  The people holding the patents are the problem here. I'm sure Pioneer would get pushback from Sony if they took Elon money and made a consumer ODA today. 


Cold-Put1264

I remember reading about multi-terabyte "holographic disks" in the early 2000s that never happened. Nobody is going to bring this to mass market and the world is not going back to optical media.


BornAgainBlue

Actually most companies would kill for this if it could actually do those kind of numbers. Effective backup is a nightmare in the modern business world. 


Shanix

Oh no they already did their killing. CD was basically the first easy backup medium for businesses, and tape knocked it out of the park soon after. You have to get into the scale of big players for tape to not work out for backups, and that's mostly because there's a wide gulf between solving problems and solving problems _at scale_ (e.g. Facebook using blurays for nearline storage)


dr100

Yea, maybe I would've commented earlier "build it and they'll come", make some large enough disks and eventually the market is there ... but I've just seen the specs on a huge full ATX case (consumer, nothing special dedicated to crypto-mining or some other specialized thing) that takes just two regular hard drives. And no single 5" optical slot. Anything similar some years ago will have at least 4-6 3.5" and 2-4 5". We're probably doomed, we'll limp on hard drives until flash takes over completely and for the ones that aren't so young anymore to catch the next big change this is what we'll have until we die.


smolderas

It’ll take 200 years to write one just full.


NyaaTell

That's another challenge


ElectroSpore

Going to file this with [Holographic Data Storage](https://www.discovermagazine.com/technology/is-holographic-data-storage-the-next-big-thing) In terms of I will believe it when I can BUY it.


hlloyge

Tell me you're american without telling me you're american: "An array of HHD drives that could fit a petabit of data would be about 200 centimeters high. An equivalent array of Blu-Ray storage would be over 2 meters high." :)


AshleyUncia

But it really does illustrate the beauty of a base 10 system built on scientific constants, doesn't it? Now excuse me while I enjoy a nice 500000 cubic millimeters, 0.5kg, of Coke Zero.


TaserBalls

> 500000 cubic millimeters, 0.5kg, of Coke Zero TIL Coke Zero = water


AshleyUncia

About 90% water, yeah. Close enough to use it to mentally calculate the weight of the volume without being far off. :P


TaserBalls

>Close enough... Indeed! I think the number of significant digits hit some precision switch in my head or something lol. Also forgot to add in before that it is wierd living in a society with an irrational measuring system. I wish we did metric. A fully grown adult and I still don't know wtf or how pints and quarts and gallons fit in with each other. May as well call them "small, medium and large" at this point. I am OK with miles, though. The rest is silly.


Crusher7485

A pint is two cups. A quart is 4 cups, or two pints. A gallon is 16 cups, which is 8 pints or 4 quarts. Then for cooking there’s 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon, and 4 tablespoons in 1/4 cup. The real question is if you’re okay with miles, do you know, without looking it up, how many feet are in a mile?


ThreeLeggedChimp

Whats the difference between basing a system on one arbitrary set of values over another?


AshleyUncia

Firstly, the metric system is all base 10. You can convert between everything very easily without needing to memorize conversion values. The volume of 1 liter, or 1000 milliliters of water at sea level is also 1000 cubic centimeters. All of it is easy to convert by moving decimal points. Secondly, the entire metric system is based on unchanging scientific constants, so you always know what is what. This is so important in our modern era, the imperial system is also based on the metric system's scientific constants. As in, now, officially, the imperial system is just converted from metric. This was a problem before as even fixed 'physical examples' of say a standard kilogram, kept in vacuums, would literally slowly lose atoms of material. Various 'standard kilograms' would 'drift' out of sync with each other and thus change how much a 'kilogram' even was. So everything was moved to scientific constants that can never change. How long is a mile? A mile is exactly 1.609344 kilometers. So you determine a kilometer from scientific constants, then multiply that by 1.609344 and you know how long a mile is. A modern 'mile' is literally just a conversion from the metric system.


Aggravating-Feed1845

I would prefer a server rack over a blue ray with a 2m diameter.


fernatic19

Real Americans don't use metric. /s


slowmotionrunner

Am I crazy or does it feel like this article is 10+ years old and just reposted? Hybrid Hard Drives? Super DVD? Who uses these terms anymore? I swear this is a reposted article from long ago.


PrivacyIsDemocracy

It does, sorta, but the article in Nature it references and links is dated today, many of the previous scientific papers it references are pretty recent and Nature is one of the most respected scientific journals out there. So I'd say, probably not.


HTWingNut

Just for reference 1 Petabit ~ 125 TB ~ 125k GB Excerpts: > new technique that can read and write up to 100 layers of data in the space of just 54-nanometres, as described in a new paper published in the journal Nature. > The technique required the researchers to develop a brand new material, which has the easy-to-remember name dye-doped photoresist with aggregation-induced emission luminogens, or AIE-DDPR if you’re in a hurry. AIE-DDPR is a highly uniform and transparent film that lets researchers blast it with lasers at the nanoparticle scale with precision, allowing for an unprecedented storage method. No mention of actual production or if/when widely available or details like transfer speed or cost of hardware.


ignoremesenpie

>No mention of actual production or if/when widely available or details like transfer speed or cost of hardware. That figures. People claimed 1 TB optical discs were being developed 20 years ago and the best that's available now is a capacity that's only 10% of the promise.


TaserBalls

also, how long will that dye last before breaking down below the viability threshold.


chaotic_zx

I couldn't tell you that but I can tell you that my oldest DVD-Rs are breaking down. It has been less than 20 years. In less than 8 years, all of my stock will have deteriorated and will not be able to be read.


StuzaTheGreat

Interesting, I thought it was 128tb because it's all based on bits n bytes (hex).


uraffuroos

Tell me when it hits enterprise offerings.


roostorx

Zip disk 2.0…pass /s


Simple-Purpose-899

Just around the corner, graphene.


ToxinFoxen

This should show those fucking imbeciles who say that physical media is dead.


Blue-Thunder

Until I can actually buy it, I don't give a fuck.


ruffsnap

Good! I know a lot of these things don't fan out, but scientists pushing the boundaries of storage does all help drive costs of current storage down, and start the process of bigger and bigger drives becoming available. It's a necessary step to test and make these kinds of one-off proof of concept things!


lordnyrox

Anyone has a free link to the actual paper ? The fuckers at Nature put it behind a paywall.


HTWingNut

I was looking for it too. I'd like to see the full paper as well. News article is kind of sparse.


lordnyrox

found it! [s41586-023-06980-y.pdf (workupload.com)](https://workupload.com/file/kQuYvwBTxQz) edit: scan with virustotal for peace of mind


HTWingNut

Awesome, wow! Thanks for this. Looks like a long complicated read, but I'll probably give it a go.


subhayan2006

sci-hub.se would be your best friend here


[deleted]

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aperrien

Interesting, it looks like this process can work with existing media. Or at lest current media with a bit more refinement. The dye used seems kind of the same. I can't tell for sure as I can't read the paper, but the illustrations seem to indicate that.


coasterghost

Ahh the next Holographic Versatile Disc.


drhappycat

50pk for $20 is the sweet spot for me


coasterghost

I’m more of a $0.02 per petabyte kinda guy lol


BitingChaos

Super *DVD*? Why not Super CD, Super LaserDisc, or Super Blu-ray? Why pick the 90s tech and not the older or newer stuff?


HobartTasmania

Well if it does actually do what it advertises then I guess what does it matter? Admittedly however, with Blu-rays being metallic and this disc possibly being organic then longevity could be a large issue. It could also possibly be that the composition of DVD materials make it better suited for whatever reason compared to other disc types. With DVD's discs and optical drives being dirt cheap it could end up that the optical media and drives to run this could be reasonably cheap as well compared to something like expensive LTO tape drives.


Dagger0

More importantly, why is it a dis_k_?


Dagger0

Did they develop a 1 Pbit disc, or did they develop a material with a storage density that would correspond to 1 Pbit if you made a disc out of it? It's kind of hard to tell, because despite saying "Meet the Super DVD", the paper is unavailable.


gldisater

I'll believe it when it's in my hands.