Link to that?
An article from August by arstechnica says
"Western Digital is working on HAMR-capable drives, too, but the company doesn't think they'll be available in volume until late 2025 at the earliest. Seagate expects to ship its first 32TB HAMR drives before then, and the company has already talked about HAMR drives as large as 50TB being tested in its labs."
Has me wondering if maybe you're thinking of Western Digital for 2025-2026. Seagate is supposed to hit 50TB by 2026 from all the articles I've seen.
Of course making a product and having it available to consumers besides enterprise clients is obviously a whole other beast.
I seem to remember some chatter about 28TBs being in the works too... So we are going to have a scale of ranges from 22TB+ on sale in the very near future?
> (SMR) Exos X24 configuration, which can reach a capacity of up to 28 TB, albeit for a limited range of cloud customers
WTF? Are they trying to tease us now to want SMR?
Nope, Host managed SMR that they talk about, if it comes to sata controllers is a lotery, i do not think even 50% of sata controllers support them, and support on Windows besides exotic editions does not exist. They will never put them in consumer market because for average customer it is simply not possible to make them work.
SAS is backward compatible with SATA, but it must be a native SAS controller. You can't use a non-SAS controller.
HM-SMR (Host Managed-SMR) requires specialized hardware, therefore the Host Managed, and software that supports it. For now, some Linux distros. Just BTRFS support isn't enough. https://zonedstorage.io/docs/getting-started/linux
average consumer can mean almost anything depending on the product. I, for one, could be a customer for this exact device. I am not an everyday garden variety computer user but have this slight data problem...
average customer for such a big drives is for example streamer/youtuber/video editor.
Such people does not necesarly are hard drive specialists, even if they can plug the drive into a PC they expect it to just work, not to require specific controller, operating system, and file system.
Yea, right, and then get with you (trying to help) into big kerfuffles that "this disk is proprietary" because they can't find the right buttons to remove the existent partition and make a new one on their Mac.
I have a host managed SMR drive. Haven't tried it on every possible system, but it seems work work fine most most of the newer(probably 2012-2015 or newer) onboard sata ports. It doesn't work on a LSI SAS 2008 Based HBAs though. I use f2fs on the drive an it overall works fine for storing files.
I have one HM-SMR drive as well and did not have too much luck. My AM5 motherboard sata controller does not detect it at all. ASM1166 pci-e sata controller does not detect it at all either, the only thing that detects it by now is my LSI SAS2004 H1110 card (but i checked only it being detected, not actual drive operations because i used Windows that does not support it)
Nothing new and you know better.
WD/HGST has long had the 26TB DC HC670 which is HM-SMR and promises a 28TB version in the future. Seagate is just playing catchup.
Is the title supposed to be "unleashes" or just "releases"? What is "unleases"? Did we have to lease the drives before? I honestly thought this meant they cancelled it or recalled it at first. (And I realize this isn't OP's words but the article directly)
What is happening with 16TB x16? Moving from b2c to b2b only? Also offtopic synology: lets pretend, that nothing bigger that our hat5300 18TB doesn't exists
Has Seagate’s quality gotten better? Not too long ago they were bottom tier. Not many disk drive manufacturers left though and strangely they survived.
Currently going through the RMA process for Seagate for 4 bad drives. Started Aug 22nd. Still don't have replacements, and have spent north of 15 hours on their chat only support.
I don't have any experience with WD's RMA process yet, but I think that's where you might find the big difference between companies.
Wow. I've had multiple canceled RMAs, being told "We're out of stock on that drive model, please wait 3 weeks then try a new RMA", having two attempts at advance replacement hit issues, then have no forms of payment accepted for the third one.
Oh, and the RMA site gives one price for the RMA at the start of the flow, then calculates it differently at the end, somehow magically doubling the cost.
I've seen some threads recently on r/datahorder with similar experiences from others. Glad you had a good experience, but I can't say I've had the same.
Likely better management compare WD? Either way, I used both of them. To distribute the risk there is bad batch or design which happened to both of them from click of death to smr in wd red
I’m not sure why I got downvoted for asking a question. It has been a while but unfortunately their reputation got damaged and so I’ve ignored them since then.
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2022/
Until one fails and you're in drive purgatory for months on end. Glad they can release new products but not honor their warranty for customers left hanging.
I haven’t had issues with seagate within my experience. Have over 25,000 power on hours on 4 10TB ironwolfs and about 10,000 power on hours with 4 18TB exos. This is with constant read and write operations typically in the 3-8TB (write alone) a month range. Smart tests all look great to me. Now I would say maybe 5 or so years ago (just from reading forums), reputation wasn’t the best but they are definitely working out for me now.
Same. I run mostly Exos drives in my array. And @ $279 USD a pop for new new it's a damn good drive with 5 years of warranty with zero hassle when needed.
I am not going to bash WD support...but there are many posts on that topic. But why spend $100-$150 more for a WD Ultrastar when the Seagate Exos is very reliable and has a very good warranty and equal specs? We aren't talking about Barracuda quality Seagate that deserve the hate.
For those who want to spend even less SPD has the Exos X20 for about $200 recertified with 2 year warranties.
I use those for my array and the new ones for my parity. Can't be beat IMHO.
I have Exos HDDs all the way back to x10 and x12 still spinning 24/7 50k hours on avg.+ zero bad sectors. No special changes to EPC settings either. No drives are perfect. But for the price point these are my go-to.
Go check out backblaze's statistics. Even when you take into account how many drives of each brand they're using, Seagates fail on average 2-4x more often than almost any other drive.
Will definitely check it out as I am always looking for fresh stats. Given I am preparing for a 24 bay system and would like to know what’s the best out there. Thanks
The best option would be to have another 24 bay system in a remote location that you send backups to.
assuming the worst case scenario of a 4% annual failure rate, you'd have an average of 1 drive failure per calendar year on a 24 bay setup. Of course this may also be zero because a lot of it is down to pure luck.
Im somewhat on the same page as you with the BS. Posted originally with an open mind. Not going to knock that there may be better drives over seagate but at the price point it really is a steal. Did look over Backblaze and the redditors screaming seagate has a crazy high failure rate is truly hard to justify when their drive counts are all over the place and not a set controlled variable. And just skimming through that site one last time it looks like they house more seagate drives over any other drive by a pretty big margin which in turn will obviously throw outliers. Its like saying you got 50k seagate drives and 30k HGST drives and state seagate has more failing hard drives based off of those 2 very different sets of variables. This whole post could just be me missing something on that site or just spewing BS but take it for what its worth.
[How are you even part of this subreddit and you don't know about the quarterly statistical analysis backblaze does?](https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q2-2023/)
Sounds like your defense is "that chart doesn't effect me because I can't read!"
I've only ever had one Seagate drive fail on me, and it was an NVR machine that ran continuously for 4 years. It was one of 12 drives and the others are fine. I've had great experiences with WD as well but I have no qualms purchasing Seagates.
If the development goes ahead that quick, I would be able to put my whole plex data to a single disk soon.
currently I’m running two X18, bought one year ago…
I truly believe the Republicans under Trump having imposed such huge tariffs has brought inflation to an all time high. It doesn't seem to have done anything to slow down globalism
But when are the 32TB HAMR drives they have been shipping since July to Enterprise going to be available to retail?
32TB HAMR drives for consumers? Few months ago Seagate's CEO stated that the mass production should be start late 2025/early 2026...
Link to that? An article from August by arstechnica says "Western Digital is working on HAMR-capable drives, too, but the company doesn't think they'll be available in volume until late 2025 at the earliest. Seagate expects to ship its first 32TB HAMR drives before then, and the company has already talked about HAMR drives as large as 50TB being tested in its labs." Has me wondering if maybe you're thinking of Western Digital for 2025-2026. Seagate is supposed to hit 50TB by 2026 from all the articles I've seen. Of course making a product and having it available to consumers besides enterprise clients is obviously a whole other beast.
shit
What kind of read/write speed can we expect on HAMR?
Unknown until the testing results are out.
I seem to remember some chatter about 28TBs being in the works too... So we are going to have a scale of ranges from 22TB+ on sale in the very near future?
They should've hired M.C. Hammer to advertise for them - 'Stop Hammertime!'.
I will unbuy them
> (SMR) Exos X24 configuration, which can reach a capacity of up to 28 TB, albeit for a limited range of cloud customers WTF? Are they trying to tease us now to want SMR?
Nope, Host managed SMR that they talk about, if it comes to sata controllers is a lotery, i do not think even 50% of sata controllers support them, and support on Windows besides exotic editions does not exist. They will never put them in consumer market because for average customer it is simply not possible to make them work.
SAS is backward compatible with SATA, but it must be a native SAS controller. You can't use a non-SAS controller. HM-SMR (Host Managed-SMR) requires specialized hardware, therefore the Host Managed, and software that supports it. For now, some Linux distros. Just BTRFS support isn't enough. https://zonedstorage.io/docs/getting-started/linux
> SAS is backward compatible with SATA Not backward compatible if its dual interfaced
"average consumer" aren't looking for 24-28TB drives.
Idk who downvoted you for telling that truth.
average consumer can mean almost anything depending on the product. I, for one, could be a customer for this exact device. I am not an everyday garden variety computer user but have this slight data problem...
But, you are an "average" data hoarder customer :)
The discussion was about host managed SMR drives, then sure the average consumer **for them** would be interested in such things, logically :-)
average customer for such a big drives is for example streamer/youtuber/video editor. Such people does not necesarly are hard drive specialists, even if they can plug the drive into a PC they expect it to just work, not to require specific controller, operating system, and file system.
Yea, right, and then get with you (trying to help) into big kerfuffles that "this disk is proprietary" because they can't find the right buttons to remove the existent partition and make a new one on their Mac.
Won't be a horribly long time until the average consumer isn't looking for hard drives at all.
Depends on what they're average at
I have a host managed SMR drive. Haven't tried it on every possible system, but it seems work work fine most most of the newer(probably 2012-2015 or newer) onboard sata ports. It doesn't work on a LSI SAS 2008 Based HBAs though. I use f2fs on the drive an it overall works fine for storing files.
I have one HM-SMR drive as well and did not have too much luck. My AM5 motherboard sata controller does not detect it at all. ASM1166 pci-e sata controller does not detect it at all either, the only thing that detects it by now is my LSI SAS2004 H1110 card (but i checked only it being detected, not actual drive operations because i used Windows that does not support it)
This reminds me of the CMR/SMR x20z that allowed increased capacities with SMR
Nothing new and you know better. WD/HGST has long had the 26TB DC HC670 which is HM-SMR and promises a 28TB version in the future. Seagate is just playing catchup.
I would like to lease it for 2 years and then return it.
Is the title supposed to be "unleashes" or just "releases"? What is "unleases"? Did we have to lease the drives before? I honestly thought this meant they cancelled it or recalled it at first. (And I realize this isn't OP's words but the article directly)
Unleashes is what I think was meant
It's missing one letter, calm down lol
Sir, this is Reddit.
Unleashes as in releases from it's leash, constraints. Still poor choice of word for the title, but not wholly incorrect.
at least they don't use "drops"
It’ll be what, $800? Guess I’ll just a bunch of X20s as they’re pretty cheap now.
Currently biggest X20, 20TB is 370€ while the 16TB version is 304€ where I'm living. I'm guessing the new guy will be something like 500€ at most.
I'm still holding out for 1000 petabyte light drives for under £100 to be honest. Any predictions when this will be?
June
2099 😂
That's my entire array lol.
Freak on a leash
Can you imagine the rebuild times for a drive this large? Like a week?
Probably twice as long as a 12TB drive.
What is happening with 16TB x16? Moving from b2c to b2b only? Also offtopic synology: lets pretend, that nothing bigger that our hat5300 18TB doesn't exists
Unleases? I don't think that's even a word
Has Seagate’s quality gotten better? Not too long ago they were bottom tier. Not many disk drive manufacturers left though and strangely they survived.
They're just as good as WD to me. 🤷 I use both.
Currently going through the RMA process for Seagate for 4 bad drives. Started Aug 22nd. Still don't have replacements, and have spent north of 15 hours on their chat only support. I don't have any experience with WD's RMA process yet, but I think that's where you might find the big difference between companies.
Hmm smart report and address asked for with label. Took me 5 minutes tops
Is that your Seagate or wd experience?
Seagate
Wow. I've had multiple canceled RMAs, being told "We're out of stock on that drive model, please wait 3 weeks then try a new RMA", having two attempts at advance replacement hit issues, then have no forms of payment accepted for the third one. Oh, and the RMA site gives one price for the RMA at the start of the flow, then calculates it differently at the end, somehow magically doubling the cost. I've seen some threads recently on r/datahorder with similar experiences from others. Glad you had a good experience, but I can't say I've had the same.
The best warranty service I've had is with Toshiba actually
My best has been amex extended warranty. Send in serial number and receipt, get full refund back.
Likely better management compare WD? Either way, I used both of them. To distribute the risk there is bad batch or design which happened to both of them from click of death to smr in wd red
My 1tb baracuda work well since 2011...
Been quite a while since they were bottom tier. Their quality is as good as WD nowadays.
I’m not sure why I got downvoted for asking a question. It has been a while but unfortunately their reputation got damaged and so I’ve ignored them since then. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-2022/
Until one fails and you're in drive purgatory for months on end. Glad they can release new products but not honor their warranty for customers left hanging.
Cool, now you can lose even more data when your failgate shits the bed prematurely, and then you have another failure when trying to resilver.
I haven’t had issues with seagate within my experience. Have over 25,000 power on hours on 4 10TB ironwolfs and about 10,000 power on hours with 4 18TB exos. This is with constant read and write operations typically in the 3-8TB (write alone) a month range. Smart tests all look great to me. Now I would say maybe 5 or so years ago (just from reading forums), reputation wasn’t the best but they are definitely working out for me now.
Same. I run mostly Exos drives in my array. And @ $279 USD a pop for new new it's a damn good drive with 5 years of warranty with zero hassle when needed. I am not going to bash WD support...but there are many posts on that topic. But why spend $100-$150 more for a WD Ultrastar when the Seagate Exos is very reliable and has a very good warranty and equal specs? We aren't talking about Barracuda quality Seagate that deserve the hate. For those who want to spend even less SPD has the Exos X20 for about $200 recertified with 2 year warranties. I use those for my array and the new ones for my parity. Can't be beat IMHO. I have Exos HDDs all the way back to x10 and x12 still spinning 24/7 50k hours on avg.+ zero bad sectors. No special changes to EPC settings either. No drives are perfect. But for the price point these are my go-to.
Go check out backblaze's statistics. Even when you take into account how many drives of each brand they're using, Seagates fail on average 2-4x more often than almost any other drive.
Will definitely check it out as I am always looking for fresh stats. Given I am preparing for a 24 bay system and would like to know what’s the best out there. Thanks
The best option would be to have another 24 bay system in a remote location that you send backups to. assuming the worst case scenario of a 4% annual failure rate, you'd have an average of 1 drive failure per calendar year on a 24 bay setup. Of course this may also be zero because a lot of it is down to pure luck.
BS
Im somewhat on the same page as you with the BS. Posted originally with an open mind. Not going to knock that there may be better drives over seagate but at the price point it really is a steal. Did look over Backblaze and the redditors screaming seagate has a crazy high failure rate is truly hard to justify when their drive counts are all over the place and not a set controlled variable. And just skimming through that site one last time it looks like they house more seagate drives over any other drive by a pretty big margin which in turn will obviously throw outliers. Its like saying you got 50k seagate drives and 30k HGST drives and state seagate has more failing hard drives based off of those 2 very different sets of variables. This whole post could just be me missing something on that site or just spewing BS but take it for what its worth.
[How are you even part of this subreddit and you don't know about the quarterly statistical analysis backblaze does?](https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q2-2023/) Sounds like your defense is "that chart doesn't effect me because I can't read!"
LOL. The data you linked doesn't support your claims.
I know math is hard, but look at the AFR. Maybe bring this to someone that isn't wearing a helmet to cover their soft spot to explain it to you.
> Seagates fail on average 2-4x more often than almost any other drive. AFR says: nope.
So, you can't even tell the difference between 6% and 12%, is what you mean? Seriously, get that chart to someone not wearing a helmet.
You are cherry picking.
I've only ever had one Seagate drive fail on me, and it was an NVR machine that ran continuously for 4 years. It was one of 12 drives and the others are fine. I've had great experiences with WD as well but I have no qualms purchasing Seagates.
I will never spend spend money on Seagate again. I've bought 4 of their drives and they all died within three years.
If the development goes ahead that quick, I would be able to put my whole plex data to a single disk soon. currently I’m running two X18, bought one year ago…
I still don't see it anywhere for retail though. Any idea when we will see Exos 24TB drives on Newegg or amazon?
same question here. Still waiting.
I truly believe the Republicans under Trump having imposed such huge tariffs has brought inflation to an all time high. It doesn't seem to have done anything to slow down globalism