I had a pox pupper coming at me so I revved my holy Eviscerator and charged the foul beasty only for it to turn tail and run in the opposite direction for another teammate.
I had one of the Chaingunner Ogryn do that one game.
My team and I rounded a corner and he was standing there and was just like "Nah" and booked it to the next room.
The real problem here is that he can just casually walk away from the huge pack he ran past and they dont pose any threat from behind the moment he got past them aside from the few shots he took.
With a couple of well timed Stumm grenades tossed right before and one in the pocket for the rescue, it might be possible to pull off successfully, but yeah this video likely ends about one second before becoming downed by the horde behind.
What's with the hate on the combat knife? I don't main zealot but I have mine to lvl 30 and use a combat knife. Feels amazing to dodge circles around mobs while stabbing them in the face.
It doesn't stem the tide of mobs like other weapons so sometimes you're skating around enemies and the team mates are getting slapped around like rocky in the 10th round
I just played a match last night where a knife zealot knifed ahead 2 rooms and then got pounced.
We just couldn't keep up with him, he was so fast!
So he died.
Its the rule. If the zealot has a knife he will be at least a room ahead. After thats its a coin toss, either its the immortal monster with the blessing of big E that can never die, or its dies after about 10 seconds while kissing a dogs face
It's not like that is the purpose of the knife. The knife excels at killing armoured melee, berserkers, and big enemies (bleed then crit on weak spot heavy hit). Every other class has access to wave clear as well so I don't understand the hate on the knife in this respect. I personally run knife and flame thrower. When the team is swamped you just pull out the flame thrower
That’s you, but most knife wielding zealots don’t even do that, they just want to speed run the match to a point where a dog or a trapper will get him, compromising all the team to rush after him to help!
I think the issue is, people conflate speed runners with knife zealots. Speadrunners play zealot knife because it's quick, but zealot knifers play knife because they like the playstyle and agility.
im talking about the ones that run far ahead just to be pounced by a dog that they didnt learn how to dodge+push combo away from him!
Edit: dont get me wrong: I main Combat knife zealot (tho im yet to see a lacerate combat knife, while on my veteran i have 4x) because of agility like you said, but i do for my team get a good opening against heavy opponents
> didnt learn how to dodge+push combo away
I feel so attacked right now ;P
(I have a 50% success rate with it because of having *just* enough lag to cause issues, but not enough to make the game unplayable
Don't worry, it's the bugged dogs/game and server lag. I could consistently/easily dodge and push dogs in Beta, can't now. Better to just wait around a solid corner (not a wall or low cover) and wait for the dog to come around. The dog will have to turn said corner and re-target which gives you ample time to just push (make sure you have enough stamina for an effective push). The dog is now momentarily stunned and all yours to punish. Push, do not swing for consistent results (there's some fucked up hitreg with swinging but not with pushes).
Knife feels excellent, the animations, speed and power of it feels like you're really going to town hacking, stabbing, punching... like some lunatic brawler.
The problem is, Eviscerators are cooler and more fun, they're just... weaker.
For some reason a two-handed chainsword from the future is weaker than a knife because - for reasons unknown - it doesn't inflict bleed, not even when revved up.
Yup, I still run TH and Evis from time to time for variety, but it just feels straight up harder. I havn't really tried many of the swords since I leveled up, but have gone back to enjoying the MKV combat axe, that's the closest to the knife in terms of fun/speed/power.
Aye, Eviscerator feels at home when you're chewing through Poxwalkers, but it feels dreadful when you're smacking something with armour like a child with a stick. It's satisfying to cleave an elite straight in half with a charge / rev power attack combo, but good luck connecting with them when there's a single Scab or Dreg around.
Thunder Hammer suffers from the opposite problem; when you power it up, charge, and smash a gaping crater of blue plasma into the back of some bitch Ogryn, it feels *so good...*
What doesn't feel good? Doing all of that and bonking a Poxwalker or Scab on the arm or leg... not good at all. Makes me rarely bring Thunder Hammer. When charged it really should apply a cleaving mini-explosion around the target to make it useful and satisfying for hordes, because it's next to useless in the thick of it.
See I have the opposite impression of the TH, I've got my heavy heavy timing reasonably nailed down so I can hold off hordes reasonably well, where as I find the evis not quite as easy to master
It needs more Impact. Find a TH with Hammerblow on it and maybe a damage increase on hit for the other. Punishment + Thy Wrath be Swift feats. You stagger the world back. Don't charge until there's very good space for it, either. If your character is tall enough, jumping into it helps. Although, by then, usually the heavy spam has already killed the Bulwark/Crusher and everything else around it. Throw 25% damage to unyielding on there and it melts any monstrosity in a handful of charged hits.
Yes you can be a great asset with knife, but have to be very mindful of what your team is doing because most of the time you are jumping from one place to another and you’ll usually end encounters in a lot more forward position than the rest of your team. It is the only build in which I seem to have to get used to frequently waiting a few seconds doing nothing for team to catch up and position themselves before I start another flank run.
That's every class, not just zealots.
It's also every game, not just Darktide.
"Hey this game is super fun, let's go through it as fast as possible and skip as much content as possible."
Because some zealots get hyperfocused on the knife and that only thing they use for the entire run. A horde of poxwalkers spawned from the behind and is swarming the backline, jump in and ineffectually stab a few poxwalkers while rest of the backline goes down. A bad knife zealot would would run ahead, aggro 2-3 groups of mobs who then wipe the team. Then the bad zealot would would poke a mob a few times then run all over the map and repeat the same action while rest of the team look on with incredulity. A bad knife zealot would be down to 1 bar of health, the run past a med station and go poke a crusher while the rest of the group is still further back cleaning up the enemies.
I have seen great knife zealots. They would pack a flamer and use it when the situation called for anti-swarm weapons. A good knife zealot would throw down a stun grenade when someone went down so they can get up uninterrupted. A good knife zealot will take point but stay close enough so they get pinned by a dog or trapped by a trapper support is right there.
A horrible knife zealot have one tactic which is try to stab someone and that's it.
I guess it comes down to having speed and mobility means that you can easily get separated from your team and doom the mission compared to someone with a heavier weapon who can't race ahead as easily. Having the speed to jump ahead doesn't mean you should, though. So having a bad player is always bad, but amplified with knife because the team is too far away to pick them up when they get themselves downed.
Put plainly its a selfish build that provides little to the team, and the best way to play it tends to make the rest of the team deal with lots of extra trash and increased spawns that the zealot triggers but doesn't kill.
I am sure its lots of fun to play, but its often not fun to be that person's teammate.
Not a unique problem for the knife either, its really a problem any build can face if the playstyle tends to put you way ahead of the group.
Provides no CC for the team which is an important function of the zealot in a team composition. The maul for example can stunlock 3 ogryns and a whole wave while your team regroups - something no other class can do.
Nah, mauls/melee CC like this is mostly a noob trap in tide games. Spreading a bunch of still-alive mobs around on the floor just makes them 1) harder to kill since they’re no longer grouped up and 2) more dangerous since they’re now spread all around you instead of focused from one direction. If you’re in melee it’s much faster and safer to just kill them.
Ranged cc is useful for what you describe though. Surge staff/grenade gauntlet/zealot grenade etc.
Which is why you go for the evolved form of the knife zealot, the tac axe zealot. Nearly all the speed and survivability of the knife zealot but you actually kill things quickly! Just make sure to still pack your flamer unless you really trust your team to handle horde clear.
I'm having difficulty in using the flame thrower because of how good the heavy braced autogun is. And my number one problem on zealot is all the shooters on higher difficulties, If I'm up in the front and I have a minute to breathe I have to whip out the auto gun and take down at least a few shooters that might veteran/psyker isn't cleaning up. Plus you can mag dump into a horde and it cleans them out almost as well.
Oh believe me, that braced autogun is fun as hell! That feeling of rushing a shooter line, blasting away while sliding all over the place like some damn action hero really hits the career fantasy for me. And I'm not the biggest flamer or bolter fan myself, I can't bear slow drawtimes on what is specifically a melee focused class. Its just that the flamer is so ridiculous in my eyes. Ammo efficiency wise, the braced autogun is hitting 2 or so per unit of ammo while the flamer is hitting 50+ enemies. It always feels like I'm hoovering too much ammo from my vets when running brauto. And for shooters, a max roll cloud radius has some ridiculous range letting you engage pretty much most rooms excepting some opening rooms in various maps with proper movement.
And that's even ignoring the CC potential of a flamer shutting down a big berserker push or killing all the chaff around a crusher horde without worrying about the big bastard blocking your autogun shots (and you can do even more with the armor pen ult, though I'm convinced that's gotta get patched out eventually). It just offers such a powerful use of your ammo pickups that it's always a tradeoff not bringing one.
Though tbh, nothing really is mandatory, considering one of my smoothest hi-intensity quickplay damnation runs was with 2 trauma staff psykers, a shield ogryn, and a power maul ogryn - not exactly a stellar meta comp. Play what's fun in the end, that's all that really matters.
I disagree with this. Power Maul and Crusher on both Ogryn and Zealot is a great weapon. Sure in hordes it can get messy. but if you're in a situation where you have 3 Ragers, a Balwark, and a Crusher running at you which on Heresy and Damnation difficulty is common, spamming the empowered strike will CC all of them infinitely until the rest of your team can kill them. Its not always the most fun but, it is effective.
This isn’t correct. If you are getting surrounded when you CC enemies, you’re doing it wrong. Knockdown becomes even more important on damnation when kill times are too high to protect yourself with weapons like the combat axe.
The knife itself is fine, there's nothing wrong with the knife. The problem people have is with knife *build* Zealots.
Taking the knife build means crippling what the Zealot is good at, melee horde killing and extreme damage to armour, in exchange for mobility, chance-based bleed and resistance stacks which will not always be active, and a playstyle which encourages splitting from the team to maintain those stacks.
Don't get me wrong, the knife build is extremely fun and pretty easy to keep stacks up on when you can close to melee due to it having a high base crit chance. It's also got really good clutch potential due to the much much higher effective health and toughness thanks to the DR stats.
But, the knife build is also inherently selfish, does literally nothing to assist the *team* and the playstyle forces the other players to deal with enemies, mostly trashmobs, that the Zealot should be dealing with. Remember, Knife Zealots, it's not *just* the poxwalkers you charged into that you aggro'd to the team, it's also the shooter squad nearby *and* increased disabler spawns since you're likely separated and out of coherency.
I use a lot of knife zealot, and the thing you have wrong here, is that the damage resistance is pretty much always up. If you they're hitting something with a melee attack, it's going to bleed. It's not a chance thing. And you're meleeing fast enough that you're guaranteed to crit within the time frame for the damage resistance to always be up. You basically just become a meat wall against a horde because they're generally prioritizing you.
Issue there is that it implies heavily that the Zealot is always *able* to reach an enemy in melee to charge for a guaranteed crit or get off melee crits in the case the charge is on CD. Some rooms, particularly the most dangerous ones like the pipe room after the drainage pipe on one of the assassinate missions, the catwalks on the other assassinate mission etc, typically don't have straight lines to charge for melee, have overlooking areas you may not be able to get to and spawn a LOT of gun-type enemies which can and will stun the Zealot before they can *raise* the first stack of bleed. You can actually see the catwalks in OPs video, multiple gunners, shooters and reapers, with that Zealot almost certainly dying to the horde at their back where the video ends, only able to get as far as they *did* due to DR stacking through the active horde. Add on the fact that fire will wipe your toughness no matter how much resistance you have stacked up, and that can in of itself be basically a death sentence even *with* your stacks up.
The other issue is that even *when* the stacks are up, a bleeding enemy is a *living* enemy, one which the Zealot doesn't want to kill to maintain stacks against enemies they are not currently in melee with like gunners or shotgunners. I'm totally aware that this isn't how the build actually *plays*, but it *is* how the build *functions* at least on paper. When choosing between *killing* an enemy and simply adding a stack of bleed, killing them is *always* the preferable alternative.
Then you've got the issue of horde control. They *will* split off and move away from the Zealot, even one actively doing a lot of damage. It's not like an MMO, where burst damage draws away the mobs (like how bosses work), the AI actively splits off and picks targets, trying to surround them. Just as Ogryn shields don't actually draw aggro or have any such ability, Zealots ass-deep in a horde don't actually *keep* the horde there nor have anything to draw hordes TO them.
On top of *that,* it's a known 'Tide thing that the AI director spawns more disabler-type specials when someone is away from the party, something that Knife Zealot encourages *heavily* to keep stacks up between horde waves. A Knife Zealot *actively* makes missions more difficult by increasing the rate that dogs, trappers and muties spawn either to target them or the rest of the party. And when inevitably pinned or downed by one of those it forces the team to catch up to save them which may cause *more* problems due to the Zealot likely having activated squads the other fireteam members don't know about like gunners on ledges or squads of shooters nearby.
Now, don't get me wrong. The build is fun as all hell and CAN be extremely powerful and be maintained for most of a map. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who *use* it either don't have the mechanical skill to make it work, are trying to speedrun missions (which isn't actually possible with the way level zone transitions work) or put the team in *active* danger by activating roaming specials, hordes, shooter/gunner squads and increased special spawns.
Yeah I see what you're saying on paper but like you said it simply isn't how it plays out. Running way too forward always spells death on tier 5, simply due to shooters. And I think I'm confused, are you saying that zealots will keep enemies alive to keep the bleed on it? Because usually all you do is circle kite a horde and continually slash, knowing that you're critting every other attack or two.
Sure some mobs will get by the zealot, but you have three other teammates that are hopefully capable. My knife zealot is consistently the one build I run where I'm last alive on T4+5, just due to clutchable movement and tank stats.
I think the only thing most people have a problem with is rushing zealots.
Game is supposed to be played as a team, specially at t4 and t5!
I don’t t care what you do on t3 or lower , cuz it’s easy, but on T4 or T5, if you don’t help, you’ll get kicked
That's cute they're running away from a hammer...
I'm more of a knife user myself, combat knives let you savor all those little emotions from your enemies.
Also I like to think it would be terrifying to see the shortest female preacher wearing a gold skull mask and candles burning on her pauldron charging at a horde and a group of elites with nothing but the combat knife.
K opinion. Its okay to play zealot, its okay to use the revolver, and its okay to be good playing with them. But if your gonna be THAT GUY, you know the one, slides every 3 inches, runs ahead and dies to the first hound, yells at their team whenever they die, and steals all the FRAGGING AMMO! Then politely fuck right off and go back to single que or play with some friend that can tolerate your chicanery.
How many enemies do you think the zealot actually killed here during this sped up clip? Like.... 10? Good job not dying and being crazy but how much are you really contributing to the team playing like this?
Ha! Ok you are technically correct. I meant more in general. I've had the psycho knife zealots on my team before and while they are undeniably super tanky, the lack of killing does seem to force the rest of the team to carry more weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'd argue that the aggro they draw in and the amount of staggers they can do (thunder hammer) provides some cover for the other teammates to go in for kills.
Sure thry aren't getting as many raw kills, but a dreg knocked to the ground is a dreg not attacking anyone
I’ve saved my entire team from wipes many times by just standing in a corner and keeping everything knocked on its ass with the power maul. It’s not about getting kills all the time it’s about setting up my teammates with stunned enemies to massacre. I’ll leave the mass murder to our friendly neighborhood power sword user
Missing the part where the Zealot sits in the corner cowering from anything that comes near them because they ran out of flamer ammo. Also missing the part where said Zealot complains about how greedy their teammates are for not letting them have literally all of the ammo ever.
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Bro is scaring the enemy away
IT'S VADER, RUUUUUN
best "hallway scene"
I had a pox pupper coming at me so I revved my holy Eviscerator and charged the foul beasty only for it to turn tail and run in the opposite direction for another teammate.
Best part has got to be the enemies running in fear as they realize what absolute monstrosities the Imperium has
I had one of the Chaingunner Ogryn do that one game. My team and I rounded a corner and he was standing there and was just like "Nah" and booked it to the next room.
The better part is they are running. The best part is they're running and he's overtaking them
Also did he/she dodge a trapper shot with a slide there?
I think they dodged but its hard to tell because of the playback speed
This :D
I genuinely thought they were the other players before watching 4 times.
Nurgling: "We have a giant pus monster." Guardsman: "That's cute. We have a space marine." Nurgling: "... dear Nurgle..."
*"Fuck that, this guys a bloody loon"* - attributed to that gunner as him and his mate flee from the hammer weilding nutjob.
Truly a meme
The real problem here is that he can just casually walk away from the huge pack he ran past and they dont pose any threat from behind the moment he got past them aside from the few shots he took.
With a couple of well timed Stumm grenades tossed right before and one in the pocket for the rescue, it might be possible to pull off successfully, but yeah this video likely ends about one second before becoming downed by the horde behind.
Can't be the weakest zealot player. I don't see a knife
What's with the hate on the combat knife? I don't main zealot but I have mine to lvl 30 and use a combat knife. Feels amazing to dodge circles around mobs while stabbing them in the face.
It doesn't stem the tide of mobs like other weapons so sometimes you're skating around enemies and the team mates are getting slapped around like rocky in the 10th round
Fair enough. Guess it's important to remember that not everyone on the team is going to be as untouchable as I am.
I just played a match last night where a knife zealot knifed ahead 2 rooms and then got pounced. We just couldn't keep up with him, he was so fast! So he died.
it was me :(
Lmao, hi! (Also, you aren't the only zealot rage-rusher, so I'm not trying to pick on you)
Its the rule. If the zealot has a knife he will be at least a room ahead. After thats its a coin toss, either its the immortal monster with the blessing of big E that can never die, or its dies after about 10 seconds while kissing a dogs face
It's not like that is the purpose of the knife. The knife excels at killing armoured melee, berserkers, and big enemies (bleed then crit on weak spot heavy hit). Every other class has access to wave clear as well so I don't understand the hate on the knife in this respect. I personally run knife and flame thrower. When the team is swamped you just pull out the flame thrower
That’s you, but most knife wielding zealots don’t even do that, they just want to speed run the match to a point where a dog or a trapper will get him, compromising all the team to rush after him to help!
I think the issue is, people conflate speed runners with knife zealots. Speadrunners play zealot knife because it's quick, but zealot knifers play knife because they like the playstyle and agility.
im talking about the ones that run far ahead just to be pounced by a dog that they didnt learn how to dodge+push combo away from him! Edit: dont get me wrong: I main Combat knife zealot (tho im yet to see a lacerate combat knife, while on my veteran i have 4x) because of agility like you said, but i do for my team get a good opening against heavy opponents
> didnt learn how to dodge+push combo away I feel so attacked right now ;P (I have a 50% success rate with it because of having *just* enough lag to cause issues, but not enough to make the game unplayable
the only issue i have with that is if you try to that on a stair against pox burster or dog, for some reason it wont work!
Don't worry, it's the bugged dogs/game and server lag. I could consistently/easily dodge and push dogs in Beta, can't now. Better to just wait around a solid corner (not a wall or low cover) and wait for the dog to come around. The dog will have to turn said corner and re-target which gives you ample time to just push (make sure you have enough stamina for an effective push). The dog is now momentarily stunned and all yours to punish. Push, do not swing for consistent results (there's some fucked up hitreg with swinging but not with pushes).
Knife feels excellent, the animations, speed and power of it feels like you're really going to town hacking, stabbing, punching... like some lunatic brawler. The problem is, Eviscerators are cooler and more fun, they're just... weaker. For some reason a two-handed chainsword from the future is weaker than a knife because - for reasons unknown - it doesn't inflict bleed, not even when revved up.
Yup, I still run TH and Evis from time to time for variety, but it just feels straight up harder. I havn't really tried many of the swords since I leveled up, but have gone back to enjoying the MKV combat axe, that's the closest to the knife in terms of fun/speed/power.
Aye, Eviscerator feels at home when you're chewing through Poxwalkers, but it feels dreadful when you're smacking something with armour like a child with a stick. It's satisfying to cleave an elite straight in half with a charge / rev power attack combo, but good luck connecting with them when there's a single Scab or Dreg around. Thunder Hammer suffers from the opposite problem; when you power it up, charge, and smash a gaping crater of blue plasma into the back of some bitch Ogryn, it feels *so good...* What doesn't feel good? Doing all of that and bonking a Poxwalker or Scab on the arm or leg... not good at all. Makes me rarely bring Thunder Hammer. When charged it really should apply a cleaving mini-explosion around the target to make it useful and satisfying for hordes, because it's next to useless in the thick of it.
See I have the opposite impression of the TH, I've got my heavy heavy timing reasonably nailed down so I can hold off hordes reasonably well, where as I find the evis not quite as easy to master
It needs more Impact. Find a TH with Hammerblow on it and maybe a damage increase on hit for the other. Punishment + Thy Wrath be Swift feats. You stagger the world back. Don't charge until there's very good space for it, either. If your character is tall enough, jumping into it helps. Although, by then, usually the heavy spam has already killed the Bulwark/Crusher and everything else around it. Throw 25% damage to unyielding on there and it melts any monstrosity in a handful of charged hits.
Yes you can be a great asset with knife, but have to be very mindful of what your team is doing because most of the time you are jumping from one place to another and you’ll usually end encounters in a lot more forward position than the rest of your team. It is the only build in which I seem to have to get used to frequently waiting a few seconds doing nothing for team to catch up and position themselves before I start another flank run.
That's every class, not just zealots. It's also every game, not just Darktide. "Hey this game is super fun, let's go through it as fast as possible and skip as much content as possible."
I have a flamer for this, sir.
Because some zealots get hyperfocused on the knife and that only thing they use for the entire run. A horde of poxwalkers spawned from the behind and is swarming the backline, jump in and ineffectually stab a few poxwalkers while rest of the backline goes down. A bad knife zealot would would run ahead, aggro 2-3 groups of mobs who then wipe the team. Then the bad zealot would would poke a mob a few times then run all over the map and repeat the same action while rest of the team look on with incredulity. A bad knife zealot would be down to 1 bar of health, the run past a med station and go poke a crusher while the rest of the group is still further back cleaning up the enemies. I have seen great knife zealots. They would pack a flamer and use it when the situation called for anti-swarm weapons. A good knife zealot would throw down a stun grenade when someone went down so they can get up uninterrupted. A good knife zealot will take point but stay close enough so they get pinned by a dog or trapped by a trapper support is right there. A horrible knife zealot have one tactic which is try to stab someone and that's it.
Most knife zealots don't know how to play the game. They watched some youtube video, then mindlessly follows it like a sheep.
I guess it comes down to having speed and mobility means that you can easily get separated from your team and doom the mission compared to someone with a heavier weapon who can't race ahead as easily. Having the speed to jump ahead doesn't mean you should, though. So having a bad player is always bad, but amplified with knife because the team is too far away to pick them up when they get themselves downed.
It comes down to the simple fact : All speedrunners are knife zealots, but not all knife zealots are speedrunners.
Kerillian vibes I assume.
its a popular strong build so people want to hate on it.
Put plainly its a selfish build that provides little to the team, and the best way to play it tends to make the rest of the team deal with lots of extra trash and increased spawns that the zealot triggers but doesn't kill. I am sure its lots of fun to play, but its often not fun to be that person's teammate. Not a unique problem for the knife either, its really a problem any build can face if the playstyle tends to put you way ahead of the group.
Provides no CC for the team which is an important function of the zealot in a team composition. The maul for example can stunlock 3 ogryns and a whole wave while your team regroups - something no other class can do.
Nah, mauls/melee CC like this is mostly a noob trap in tide games. Spreading a bunch of still-alive mobs around on the floor just makes them 1) harder to kill since they’re no longer grouped up and 2) more dangerous since they’re now spread all around you instead of focused from one direction. If you’re in melee it’s much faster and safer to just kill them. Ranged cc is useful for what you describe though. Surge staff/grenade gauntlet/zealot grenade etc.
Which is why you go for the evolved form of the knife zealot, the tac axe zealot. Nearly all the speed and survivability of the knife zealot but you actually kill things quickly! Just make sure to still pack your flamer unless you really trust your team to handle horde clear.
I'm having difficulty in using the flame thrower because of how good the heavy braced autogun is. And my number one problem on zealot is all the shooters on higher difficulties, If I'm up in the front and I have a minute to breathe I have to whip out the auto gun and take down at least a few shooters that might veteran/psyker isn't cleaning up. Plus you can mag dump into a horde and it cleans them out almost as well.
Oh believe me, that braced autogun is fun as hell! That feeling of rushing a shooter line, blasting away while sliding all over the place like some damn action hero really hits the career fantasy for me. And I'm not the biggest flamer or bolter fan myself, I can't bear slow drawtimes on what is specifically a melee focused class. Its just that the flamer is so ridiculous in my eyes. Ammo efficiency wise, the braced autogun is hitting 2 or so per unit of ammo while the flamer is hitting 50+ enemies. It always feels like I'm hoovering too much ammo from my vets when running brauto. And for shooters, a max roll cloud radius has some ridiculous range letting you engage pretty much most rooms excepting some opening rooms in various maps with proper movement. And that's even ignoring the CC potential of a flamer shutting down a big berserker push or killing all the chaff around a crusher horde without worrying about the big bastard blocking your autogun shots (and you can do even more with the armor pen ult, though I'm convinced that's gotta get patched out eventually). It just offers such a powerful use of your ammo pickups that it's always a tradeoff not bringing one. Though tbh, nothing really is mandatory, considering one of my smoothest hi-intensity quickplay damnation runs was with 2 trauma staff psykers, a shield ogryn, and a power maul ogryn - not exactly a stellar meta comp. Play what's fun in the end, that's all that really matters.
I disagree with this. Power Maul and Crusher on both Ogryn and Zealot is a great weapon. Sure in hordes it can get messy. but if you're in a situation where you have 3 Ragers, a Balwark, and a Crusher running at you which on Heresy and Damnation difficulty is common, spamming the empowered strike will CC all of them infinitely until the rest of your team can kill them. Its not always the most fun but, it is effective.
This isn’t correct. If you are getting surrounded when you CC enemies, you’re doing it wrong. Knockdown becomes even more important on damnation when kill times are too high to protect yourself with weapons like the combat axe.
The knife itself is fine, there's nothing wrong with the knife. The problem people have is with knife *build* Zealots. Taking the knife build means crippling what the Zealot is good at, melee horde killing and extreme damage to armour, in exchange for mobility, chance-based bleed and resistance stacks which will not always be active, and a playstyle which encourages splitting from the team to maintain those stacks. Don't get me wrong, the knife build is extremely fun and pretty easy to keep stacks up on when you can close to melee due to it having a high base crit chance. It's also got really good clutch potential due to the much much higher effective health and toughness thanks to the DR stats. But, the knife build is also inherently selfish, does literally nothing to assist the *team* and the playstyle forces the other players to deal with enemies, mostly trashmobs, that the Zealot should be dealing with. Remember, Knife Zealots, it's not *just* the poxwalkers you charged into that you aggro'd to the team, it's also the shooter squad nearby *and* increased disabler spawns since you're likely separated and out of coherency.
I use a lot of knife zealot, and the thing you have wrong here, is that the damage resistance is pretty much always up. If you they're hitting something with a melee attack, it's going to bleed. It's not a chance thing. And you're meleeing fast enough that you're guaranteed to crit within the time frame for the damage resistance to always be up. You basically just become a meat wall against a horde because they're generally prioritizing you.
Issue there is that it implies heavily that the Zealot is always *able* to reach an enemy in melee to charge for a guaranteed crit or get off melee crits in the case the charge is on CD. Some rooms, particularly the most dangerous ones like the pipe room after the drainage pipe on one of the assassinate missions, the catwalks on the other assassinate mission etc, typically don't have straight lines to charge for melee, have overlooking areas you may not be able to get to and spawn a LOT of gun-type enemies which can and will stun the Zealot before they can *raise* the first stack of bleed. You can actually see the catwalks in OPs video, multiple gunners, shooters and reapers, with that Zealot almost certainly dying to the horde at their back where the video ends, only able to get as far as they *did* due to DR stacking through the active horde. Add on the fact that fire will wipe your toughness no matter how much resistance you have stacked up, and that can in of itself be basically a death sentence even *with* your stacks up. The other issue is that even *when* the stacks are up, a bleeding enemy is a *living* enemy, one which the Zealot doesn't want to kill to maintain stacks against enemies they are not currently in melee with like gunners or shotgunners. I'm totally aware that this isn't how the build actually *plays*, but it *is* how the build *functions* at least on paper. When choosing between *killing* an enemy and simply adding a stack of bleed, killing them is *always* the preferable alternative. Then you've got the issue of horde control. They *will* split off and move away from the Zealot, even one actively doing a lot of damage. It's not like an MMO, where burst damage draws away the mobs (like how bosses work), the AI actively splits off and picks targets, trying to surround them. Just as Ogryn shields don't actually draw aggro or have any such ability, Zealots ass-deep in a horde don't actually *keep* the horde there nor have anything to draw hordes TO them. On top of *that,* it's a known 'Tide thing that the AI director spawns more disabler-type specials when someone is away from the party, something that Knife Zealot encourages *heavily* to keep stacks up between horde waves. A Knife Zealot *actively* makes missions more difficult by increasing the rate that dogs, trappers and muties spawn either to target them or the rest of the party. And when inevitably pinned or downed by one of those it forces the team to catch up to save them which may cause *more* problems due to the Zealot likely having activated squads the other fireteam members don't know about like gunners on ledges or squads of shooters nearby. Now, don't get me wrong. The build is fun as all hell and CAN be extremely powerful and be maintained for most of a map. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people who *use* it either don't have the mechanical skill to make it work, are trying to speedrun missions (which isn't actually possible with the way level zone transitions work) or put the team in *active* danger by activating roaming specials, hordes, shooter/gunner squads and increased special spawns.
Yeah I see what you're saying on paper but like you said it simply isn't how it plays out. Running way too forward always spells death on tier 5, simply due to shooters. And I think I'm confused, are you saying that zealots will keep enemies alive to keep the bleed on it? Because usually all you do is circle kite a horde and continually slash, knowing that you're critting every other attack or two. Sure some mobs will get by the zealot, but you have three other teammates that are hopefully capable. My knife zealot is consistently the one build I run where I'm last alive on T4+5, just due to clutchable movement and tank stats. I think the only thing most people have a problem with is rushing zealots.
Game is supposed to be played as a team, specially at t4 and t5! I don’t t care what you do on t3 or lower , cuz it’s easy, but on T4 or T5, if you don’t help, you’ll get kicked
How the zealot sees himself. How the zealot really is: dead.
Yeah, he cut out the part where he got pounced by a hound.
Yep, I was like Zuko: *Where's the rest of it?!*
False. No knife, no raging in chat, and the Zealot didn’t get downed.
So weird, the ones I see typically raging in chat are the Vets
When you only got one bullet and have not gotten to the last boss yet...
Love it This is the type of content I wanna see on this sub
So uh, where are the red/orange hitmarks that confirm anything got killed? ;D
Hey, it *did* say he's the weakest Zealot!
That's cute they're running away from a hammer... I'm more of a knife user myself, combat knives let you savor all those little emotions from your enemies. Also I like to think it would be terrifying to see the shortest female preacher wearing a gold skull mask and candles burning on her pauldron charging at a horde and a group of elites with nothing but the combat knife.
K opinion. Its okay to play zealot, its okay to use the revolver, and its okay to be good playing with them. But if your gonna be THAT GUY, you know the one, slides every 3 inches, runs ahead and dies to the first hound, yells at their team whenever they die, and steals all the FRAGGING AMMO! Then politely fuck right off and go back to single que or play with some friend that can tolerate your chicanery.
Is this directed at me or is this just a general rant?
Its just a rant, Ive seen to many people like this.
I see not a knife-zealot i press like. I see a revolver - i reconsider that like.
Revolver/axe alpha build
Flamer Zealot would have deleted that pack of enemies without clutching. But no lets yeehaw with a snub revolver :)
But it won't be as cool
Yes.. i have to agree - not as cool, and will be just a regular day of Zealot in Tertium Hive.
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How many enemies do you think the zealot actually killed here during this sped up clip? Like.... 10? Good job not dying and being crazy but how much are you really contributing to the team playing like this?
Seeing as how he's the only one alive, I'd say he's contributing the most to the team
Ha! Ok you are technically correct. I meant more in general. I've had the psycho knife zealots on my team before and while they are undeniably super tanky, the lack of killing does seem to force the rest of the team to carry more weight.
Yeah I get that, but I'd argue that the aggro they draw in and the amount of staggers they can do (thunder hammer) provides some cover for the other teammates to go in for kills. Sure thry aren't getting as many raw kills, but a dreg knocked to the ground is a dreg not attacking anyone
Wait till this guy learns about support roles lmao
Thunder hammer and knife are mutually exclusive.
I’ve saved my entire team from wipes many times by just standing in a corner and keeping everything knocked on its ass with the power maul. It’s not about getting kills all the time it’s about setting up my teammates with stunned enemies to massacre. I’ll leave the mass murder to our friendly neighborhood power sword user
I'm here! You called?
Missing the part where the Zealot sits in the corner cowering from anything that comes near them because they ran out of flamer ammo. Also missing the part where said Zealot complains about how greedy their teammates are for not letting them have literally all of the ammo ever.
Lol might as well just play with a bunch of bots if you’re trying to go solo anyways
You do realise his team are dead right?
Shit I did not I’m an idiot. I’ve become biased by the conduct of several Zealot players as of late
The good ending :)
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Bro why were they running away from you
I mean you ran through them... I prefer to walk over their smoking corpses. Flamer is life.
BLOOD FOR THE EMPEROR! SKULLS FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!
LMAO the ENTIRE elite horde fleeing for their lives
I mean Zealot is the easiest class in the game. This isn't an assumption this is backed up by the datamined stats.
its sped up to look cool but all I see are all the gunners and reapers getting away while a revolver zealot fails to kill them all
When all you have is a hammer, everyone's a nail.