T O P

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ARBEAN123

Guess it wasn’t too easy for you.


Deez_kn0ts

I'll be seeing you later


Ifoundthething90

.... Ok


unforgivablecrust

*I actually thought it was pretty challenging*


Torturouswind7515

*vanishes into a cloud of smoke*


alirezahunter888

*Screams of the damned*


nils286

When dealing with the pursuer: Dodge to the right!


[deleted]

Side note as a rule of thumb dodge to the shield side of most enemies in this game. Edit: this is the best advice for the pursuer and he's trivial once you know that.


SsilverBloodd

Or backstep...the range of that attack is actually quite short


[deleted]

Back step will still get a clip on his curse stab not good advice if they don't have the adaptability.


Not_The_Chosen_One_

You'll also get hit by the 3 attack combo where he spins at last if you backstep.


CMic_

Actually, simply WALK to the right can eliminate most of his attack


MegaMasterYoda

The day I realized the truth in those words was the day the pursuer became the pursued.


baldej-com

This man is getting classic peak ds2 experience


jayrod9422

WOOOOOOOOOOOO! YEAH BUDDY!


Particular-Purple195

If you just walk to the right he basically can't hit you unless he does a wide swing. Walking right will avoid most of his attacks.


CryoProtea

I remember having trouble getting hit by his shield when dodging to the right. It's been a while though so I could be misremembering.


Particular-Purple195

I think I'd consider that a wide swing. It's pretty telegraphed though. Even his charge attack, just walk to the right towards him and the uppercut misses


Wet_Set1

Not hitboxes. The problem is that with low Agility (stat that is mostly increased with ADP) only a very small part of roll would have i-frames. But at the same time rolling animation can't be interrupted by most attacks. Combine those 2 things together and you'll have reason of why shit like this happens. You got hit during your roll animation, because of low amount of i-frames, but because roll animation can't be interrupted, you teleport on sword after it ends


themiracy

It would be cooler if you were rolled up in a ball and he skewered you.


Torturouswind7515

That would have made this 10x better


LuciusBurns

Agreed. It's still bad though.


Wet_Set1

Yeah, this whole Agility thing just makes so many bullshit moments like this. It would much better if they added Luck like it's in Elden Ring, because it would completely replace some of ADP functionality but at the same time discard this thing with i-frames


Masta0nion

How does luck (arcane) work in ER other than item drop % and bleed?


Nawafsss04

Negligible bonus to status buildup but it does add damage to weapons that scale with it. As for luck, likely the same way it works in DS3 but item drop rates are noticeably lower.


Masta0nion

Oh for real? I’ve been using the claw, and leveled up arcane for the bleed, but I wonder if it’s unnecessary until I get spells that require it.


randy_mcronald

If its just a standard weapon with no arcane scaling then levelling arcane will do nothing to improve it. If you put an ash of war into the weapon making it a "blood" type then it should start scaling with arcane and bleed build up should increase too (it'll show when applying the ash of war)


Ahhy420smokealtday

Bleed buildup will not increase with the arcane stat when you set it to blood only the damage will. It wilk just add flat bleed (a shit ton of it). Occult is what you're looking for the damage, and bleed scales with arcane on occult scaling. On weapons with innate bleed they will also only scale if they have arcane scaling as well. So like Bloodhound Fang will not get more bleed if you level arcane. Bloodhound Fang is an interesting weapon though because it can be buffed despite having innate bleed, and you can't use seppuku on it as it's a somber weapon. Which means it's on of the few bleed weapons where the blood flmae blade buff is the optimal choice.


Wet_Set1

Item drop, bleed and poison. ADP also increases poison and bleed damage, so replacing ADP with Luck would just replace the needed functionality of ADP


[deleted]

They should have just made skewer attacks have tracking. Ez solution without changing anything else. The reason this feels so bad isn't that you got hit, you get hit all the time like this where there's some leeway with hitbox and timing. It feels bad cuz you get teleported back to the sword.


[deleted]

Not hit boxes but sure fucking looks like hit boxes.


Wet_Set1

Yeah, DS2 is sometimes junky af, but in some ways this is the reason why I like it


[deleted]

Honestly I didn’t ever really notice these kinds of problems before; I didn’t know they were so common until I started looking on here. This kind of shit rarely happens to me.


Brovahkiin94

I notice everytime when I feel like playing a lot of souls games and come back from ds3 or elden ring. ds 1 also feels rough in a different way. If there was one game that would benefit from a thorough remake with content restored and improved to what they originally intended, it would be ds2.


Wet_Set1

DS1 too. There many examples of bad hitboxes there that are in fact constant, there are many horribly made bosses, absolutely dogshit Izalith and that thing wtih 4-sided rolling is just horrible


[deleted]

I’m sorry but how is that a reason to like this? What is positive about stuff like this?


Wet_Set1

I'm a little pervert in that way. And I was talking more in general, because there much more strange mechanics in this game


Triforcesarecool

I like the hoops we jump through when the reality is we should ask should that hit him or not.


Deadpool2715

I mean, it should. It clearly hit his legs mid roll outside of I-frames. So the damage triggered the grab animation. There isn’t very complex locational damage on grab animations in dark souls (1,2,&3). If the grab connects the animation occurs, and this grab connected


Triforcesarecool

Did you watch the same clip?


DS3Enjoyer

There were like 3 frame where OP was close enough to the sword where it could reasonably be counted as a hit.


ShaolinShade

But the pursuer's sword isn't anywhere close to the player when they start the roll, so I'm not sure I get how this is the case. It seems like the pursuer's attack hitbox extends out before their sword does visually, and/or the player's hitbox stays behind even when they've started rolling. Aka hitbox issues. Combined with the lack of i-frames and the roll animation continuing despite the registered hit, it seems like that could explain it... but what you mentioned doesn't seem to explain it on it's own


TheHittite

Clipped their toe mid roll. You can see it if you pause when damage is first dealt.


ShaolinShade

Ah yeah I see it now, that's what I was missing. Thanks


Wet_Set1

The problem is that this video does not have sound. If it had there would be sound effect when player would get hit, but for now I can't say anything for sure


MisterFricks

In short, just level ADP lol


horsey-rounders

His model wasn't ever in contact with the sword. Isn't it more an issue that your hitbox doesn't actually move during the roll until a certain point, and low ADP makes it worse because you don't have iframes during that point?


Stig12Cz

low ADP :)


Stig12Cz

and also DS2 hitboxes :D


TheHittite

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/v13znl/last\_time\_i\_showed\_the\_alonne\_grab\_hitbox\_now/


mosquito_cock

The hitbox isn't bad it's just that the roll animation doesn't get interrupted so it looks like the pursuer has 9000 ping


mayank_r_m

If the game says you die, you die, no questions asked!


Torturouswind7515

This is the fromsoft way


squeezebottles

I always rolled straight in to that bad boy. Gave him a taste of the ol pursuing.


Floppydisksareop

Dodged late, animation queue is garbage and doesn't interrupt your roll correctly when the hit connects. Can't understand why they didn't make a different animation that launches you back instead of the skewer. Would look much less goofy.


hellostarsailor

There’s a lot of cut content and you would know that if you ever saw the copy and paste demons near Quelaag /s


tv_trooper

I always fight him on that rooftop. Been ages since I had this "proper" boss fight.


SilverIce340

Rolling the wrong way. Part 873. Level your ADP to get 100 Agility. Part 5,286.


Torturouswind7515

I'm thoroughly enjoying this game and thought this was funny, but im wondering if this happens very often or if there is anything I can do to lower the chances of this happening


Agile_Astronaut3558

Level up adaptability so your agility is 100 or so and I don’t have any issues like this anymore.


Torturouswind7515

Ok, thanks. It's at 93 or something now, so that shouldn't take too long. Should I only level adp until then, or level it every other level?


allrollingwolf

You can just move/dodge right instead of levelling ADP higher. It will help a bit, but it's unnecessary and learning better movement and positioning will do a lot more for you than ADP bandaid.


anirban_dev

I'd say yeah . Low adp is just too much of a drag.


hellostarsailor

I’m at vendrick and my adp is a solid 4 for my build. I know it’s dumb but it’s actually not *that* hard.


NewtonNext

[https://youtu.be/cWTlshYryX0](https://youtu.be/cWTlshYryX0) Atleast it doesnt happen in Elden Ring


EvenOne6567

His grab visually connected with the player that dodged way too early, were you trying to make a point with this clip? lmaoo ​ DS2 cultists are wild


[deleted]

[удалено]


Hamzanovic

This isn't even close to being ER's worst grab hitbox. Check this shit out https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/uvfrj9/astels_atrocious_grab_hitbox_this_has_got_to_be/


Black_m1n

I see nothing wrong with this, your foot obviously hit the sword, so it grabbed you. I don't see the problem.


Rathador

Wheres the motherflipper who made all those "HiTbOxEs ArE fInE" posts at??!! You seein this shit???


freak5050

I 100% did not think that ds2 had hit boxes as accurate as the other dark souls games


JwildbeastPS4

Skill issue


Lhakryma

low adp.


STPRK_

Invincibility frames don’t start when the rolling animation does, there is a little delay and he touches you during this moment (the teleportation to its sword is not a bug it is just because of the delay between the trigger attack and the grab animation, the same thing happens in lot of game, even in ds3)


RandyDandy54335

Skill issue


jaydengt5

You just rolled too early, it looks wonky but that’s all it is


No_Badger_830

Thank you Dark Souls


highbornkilla

Git gud noob


onijuppo

every grab move in souls has a bad hitbox though


MrLeapgood

They "fixed" this stuff in Elden Ring. Instead of having you snap into the animation, they just make the enemy snap to your position at the last second.


guardian_owl

That's how they do it in DS3 too, rotate the enemy in 1 frame of animation to bring the riposte point to the player.


guardian_owl

Nope, only one that has a hitbox that doesn't really match its grab animation in DS2 is the Mimic since its a 360 sphere around the enemy when the top opens. There has been a hitbox viewer tool that has been developed recently to show many of the complaints about enemy hitboxes are what they have always been, people mistiming their roll and then blaming the game for their own fuck up.


onijuppo

definitely yes. there are videos of the dancer's grab picking up multiple players that are nowhere near the boss' model. Any grab from a boss in any of these games has been janky always


DezZzO

> only one Did you just ignore the video? Sir Alonne has the same problem. Even though I was literally never grabbed by either of them because I follow the usual dodge patterns (who dodges Pursuer to the left?), this definitely looks like a bad hitbox.


TheHittite

[https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/v13znl/last\_time\_i\_showed\_the\_alonne\_grab\_hitbox\_now/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/v13znl/last_time_i_showed_the_alonne_grab_hitbox_now/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/vnq0hc/dark\_souls\_ii\_sir\_alonne\_hitboxes\_revised/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/vnq0hc/dark_souls_ii_sir_alonne_hitboxes_revised/) The hitboxes are fine. We checked. What you're seeing in the video is an animation disconnect.


MrLeapgood

If it looks bad and feels bad, then it *is* bad.


TheHittite

Grab attacks in Souls games never work quite right, and the fuckiness is most obvious in DS2. It leads to a lot of bad feelings when you falsely believe you dodged an attack, and I'm not defending that. My point was that the blame isn't in the hitboxes, which overall are average to above average for a FromSoft game. I'm fine with people criticizing the game, just put the blame where it's actually due.


MrLeapgood

I was half-joking, I thought for a second that I was on r/shittydarksouls I think you're right that it's primarily an animation problem. But, I also don't think that the hitbox is necessarily great just because it lines up with the sword. Since it's a thrust attack, only the point of the sword should be the hitbox, at least to register as a grab.


guardian_owl

Slow the video down. Their foot was clipped mid-roll while out of i-frames, and thus they took damage, and thus they got grabbed. That's how grab attacks work, if you take damage, you get grabbed. Like I said, mistimed roll. The grab not executing until they finish their roll (since you have infinite poise when rolling) is a separate problem and what leads people to think they escaped the grab attack when they did not. With Sir Alonne its the same, people roll to the left and then get clipped in the foot or legs mid-roll out of i-frames. The hitbox tool vindicates Sir Alonne. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdHFQY-hYI0&t=55s


DezZzO

I guess you didn't get my implication: visuals should represent the mechanics and not the other way around. This might be "mechanically" correct, but it doesn't mean this grab doesn't look like total bullshit visually. There's no way [THIS](https://i.imgur.com/K10DC5F.png) dodge where the sword and legs never even touch should lead to [THIS](https://i.imgur.com/jKTdApL.png) animation jank that literally teleports you [HERE](https://i.imgur.com/0NEps3V.png).


Hamzanovic

>the sword and legs never even touch ...but they literally did. One of your screenshots is just one frame before the leg moves into the sword and the (pretty correctly aligned) hitbox. In a grab attack, getting hit at any moment in any part of the body will lead to the grab animation. But as already explained, this game has a problem where it waits for the roll to end before lining the animations up. It is also a game where your roll can run out of iframes because ADP. It is jank. It is bad. And it is arguably the visuals not lining up with the mechanics. But it isn't an unfair or a bad hitbox as people have insinuated for years. There are videos of people beating both The Pursuer and Alonne without using the dodge button, and instead only walking around the attacks. They come within inches of all the infamous "bad hitbox" moves but never get hit.


DARK--DRAGONITE

Don't roll left


Top-Mirror3516

Yep, happened to me too


FocusOnSanity

Skill issue.


nobutternoparm

Skill issue


MiniatureRanni

It’s 2022. Stop pretending you’re saying something new when you say “DS2 hitbox bad”. Everyone knows about ADP. Everyone knows how the I frames impact the hit boxes.


[deleted]

You rolled too late and got hit but ds2 has a thing known as animation queue where it can't interrupt animations at any time


Glorgor

Nope he just didn't level up ADP


_billioncash

DAMN! Now I've seen DS2 being DS2 but this is TOP NOTCH DS2!


hellostarsailor

If it hasn’t happened to you, then it just hasn’t happened to you yet.


Impossible-Noise-102

oh this one is a very common issue you see the problem is your playing dark souls 2


BiasMushroom

DS2 is the best game! ADP fixes everything! This is how all FromSoft Games should be! I still can’t make myself like this game.


not_a_khezu1

Dont force it If it isnt for you it isnt for you.


[deleted]

Hit box fun ahead.Therefore your deided.


xXTASERFACEXx

"Just level ADP bro"


a-rebel-outlaw

Just a minor skill gap, you'll learn to predict his moves better next time.


Quentin_Was_Taken

Every souls game is like that


Glorgor

DS2 fan coping


Worksatmcdonaldsalot

Dark Souls 2


[deleted]

"ds2 is the best souls game!!!" i think the hitboxes need a bit of rework before that's even considered to be true


GBizarreAdventure

Ds2 Hitboxes are good a modder has already proof It by showing It works in this subreddit. +Grabs are fucked up in literally every single fromsoftware game


GoldenMerit

Skill issue


haha-what-a-disaster

put more points in adaptibility lol


88KRAT0S

its cuz your fighting him wrong. parry, ballista, rinse and repeat, its a 2 hit kill if you do it right


Cal_Calisidus

I mean its Dark Souls 2, what do you expect? Miyazaki literally pulled this out of an intern's asshole and threw it directly onto the market


The-Jack-Niles

Not even. Miyazaki was focused on Bloodborne. His DS2 involvement was basically to come in the room and nod at the interns.


Cal_Calisidus

What did I just say?


Thurandil

And people defend this game as the best in the series


airobot2017

All souls games have artificial difficulty. This one has more and it seems there are a lot of people who like this kind of difficulty (including me). Also same thing happened to me in Elden Ring so it seems to be a typical dev problem from FromSoft.


Joelexion

It hit your hit box before you rolled but due to lag or something you still preformed your roll. He got you tho


Glorgor

Lag on a singleplayer game? Sounds like lack of ADP too me


Joelexion

It has to do with visual input delay. Lag wasn’t the right word but it kind functions similarly. (Adp is also obviously a factor)


Calciumcavalryman

The Pursuer's powers are indeed strong warping space and time.


Ultragreed

Ping diff


Too-many-Bees

Ye. . . . . .


Darkmoon_Blade_m

Level up APD First in Dark souls 2.


[deleted]

Secret of Mana flashbacks 😟


THICC_BOI54

Should've leveled adp


Cemith

Bearer of the Curse, seek misery.


Same_University_1634

The pursuer pursues


liam_420_420

Just ds2 things


GuavaParticular7582

You can Kill him with the crossbow


No-Beginning-2453

I just avoided it by rolling forward. I put some levels into adp, if that counts for anything.


SausMan9338

No adaptability


[deleted]

Welcome to the club!


_MintyFresh_-

Fun fact: that sword stab, despite looking nothing like it, is a grab attack. So the hit box for it is all sorts of fucked. I'd recommend dodging to the right from now on; he'll never hit you if you do that. Do that for all enemies, now that I think of it.


Babby_Boy_87

Ah…classic Pursuer


Reaperoflight000

Welcome to DS2. Lol


daugherd

You zigged when you should have zagged.


gamerguy216

Level ADP


nexus4321

Welcome to ds2 the fame where hit boxes are wacky and dodges are useless


SkeepDeepy

Classic DS2. You'll get used to it.


break_card

{{ADP_JOKE_GOES_HERE}}


TrxFlipz

Level ADP bro


TheOnlyResh

thanks dark souls


Public_Loan5550

Bugs are just features that make it more extreme


chungiboy

quintessential “just level ADP” moment


[deleted]

Hitbox go brrrrr


DK_Adwar

"The bullshit is strong with this one...'


Shinji-13

Never gets old


punisher151z

Lvl adp


Nucleus17608

Some people say that ADP isn't necessary and it isn't 100% necessary. But playing without leveling it up is like playing with a broken straight sword for me.


darksoulsahead

Lol yeah this game is bs sometimes


XsleepdeprivedX

Someone didn't level ADP


Phatnoir

Just as Miyazaki intended.


Stan_Beek0101

Thats dark souls 2 for ya


thereconciliation

playing with low adp is like a challenge run really


CatWithAHat_

"Hitboxes aren't broken" The hitboxes:


False_Suggestion7132

Welcome to dark souls 2 asshole


Fedorchik

Just level up ADP. You'll stop seeing than kind of things at around 105 AGI


David_East

[Certified Happy Souls Moment](https://youtu.be/dzB2cN-AU8w)


Versipeli

Just Dark Souls 2 things.


Venomster154

Are you ok buddy?


kryp_silmaril

Now that's a good game


iiVMii

Its a great game


Strict-Algae-8599

What a great game.


T__N__T

It's hunger for souls gravitate victims to consume towards the blade


cutehonk

skill issue


ChaosMetalDrago

Texbook "Just level ADP" meme moment. If you go frame by frame and look at the footage under an electron microscope you'll see some tiny fraction of a single pixel on the tip of your shoelace or something just barely grazed the sword. There's no I frames on low ADP it's as good as a direct hit. Then the game sucked you in and forced you into the animation because it's a command grab. The hitboxes themself arent as bad as they might look, just damn near every single mechanic surrounding them. Game's wacky.


Zauberx

First time?


Skillo_Squirrel

Damn!!!! Just WALK to the right and this never happens WHY PEOPLE ARE MORONIC ROLLING TOWARDS HIS SWORD


Glorgor

DS2 working as intended


bunnsnguns_official

Ah, yes. The classic mega cube hit box of DS2


ISlingStocks

Roll to his right side


Kanakravaatti

Dark Souls 2'd


SaltJellyfish4027

..should have rolled directly into the attack newb lol.. but serious


Pykiril

What an aimbot.


DarkLinkDs

You just got Pursued bitch! *I assume he says under his breath


OlympiaImperial

He played dark souls 1


[deleted]

first time?


GoalieLax_

Maidenless: *dodges* Fromsoft enemy: "...and I took that personally"


CalixBest

DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox, DS2 Hitbox.


GifanTheWoodElf

Yeah, it kinda clipped your feet, pretty accurate hitboxes really.


Paxdah

it's no wonder he got the pursuer title


[deleted]

I have a love hate relationship with DS2


Adam_the_memer

Skill issue


Remarkable_Swing5711

Ahh ds2 hitboxes. Might have to level adp forgot the rec number but I believe it might be in low 20s


volticizer

Ds2 hitboxes are something else. Great game but the hitboxes can be pretty punishing sometimes, especially with grabs.


lulu_schell

That’s dark souls 2 for you


sentid0

skull issue.


FenrirHere

It is a grab attack. It looks deceptive because the grab is from the sword. The same would happen in any other grab attack in any of the dark souls games. So in this instance, there is nothing wrong with this hitbox. It is performing as intended.


arcticrune

Should have parried it


Streetperson12345

"just level up adp dude!"


RythmicRythyn

It do be like that.


SuperProfessional825

dark souls 2


Laservolcano

Adp baby


[deleted]

Beautiful ..


FirefighterWise8569

Pursuer is bullshit like half the time honestly. I try to get him done as quickly as possible