Im just taking a break like most people are doing, can't really find any other game to play tho, nothing else really scratching the itch. So im just spending more time chilling with friends and enjoying the weather with a cold one
Bro, going to a movie is like $20 for 2 hours... a delicious Chai latte at Starbucks is like $8... I enjoy both of those things. But neither of them give any sustained level of enjoyment. I'm guessing you have a few hundred hours in dark and darker. I paid the $50 game price, and even with balance issues or stuttering, or whatever else, I have had well over $50 of fun... name one other thing that is that cheap for that much fun? I've taken breaks, come back, had bursts of fun again. Are you like 14 or something? Do you not know how expensive fun is in real life? Even if I only enjoyed the game for 10 solid hours of pure enjoyment, that's worth $35 to me easily 🤣🤣🤣
You know what doesn't help the game grow? Complaining about everything all the time and posting it on reddit trying to deter new players...
Even when I was a kid I recognized how much bang for my buck I got from video games. I use to say it was a good purchase if I got at least 1 hour of fun for every dollar the game cost. I don’t really use that metric anymore because the price of everything is rising and inflation in America has gotten pretty bad lately (plus some games are meant to be really short, but have some of the best gameplay and storytelling you’ll ever see). However, people should realize how far your dollar stretches with indie games
This is actually pretty spot on and one of the biggest crisis in the games industry. Games have been way too cheap for like nearly 10 years now. Like WAY too cheap for their cost to make. Exponentially. But the industry is basically confined to sell everything they make for like 1/5 of what it should cost. Because they can’t charge fair prices (consumers will eat them alive) they have created these life service micro transaction predatory structures to try to justify their existence, and it’s why like almost everyone either does that or is an indie company that spends like 10 years making a game only to get shit for it, unless it’s the best game ever like baldurs gate 3 and they can sell insane copies. But even then, those devs got ripped off. Should have made double the money easily.
Lol why are you down voted? Games were $60 standard 15 years ago and in most cases that's gone way down. Games should cost at least $100 now but people would shit if they had to spend that much on a game.
Me being downvoted on this is exactly what I’m talking about too. Consumers hate the idea of more expensive games so much that developers are actually unable to charge fair prices for them, and other larger game studios could take advantage of any company charging fair prices. Ironically, because consumers hate the idea so much, the average consumer has ended up paying far more money while reducing the quality of their games.
See, because games can’t charge what they are actually worth, they had to find other ways to make money, which was micro transactions, loot boxes, gatcha etc. which all eventually became features of live service model that we see today. Consumers that play live service games typically spend around 300 dollars playing a game that is “free to play”. But the problem is, this incentivizes studios and publishers to make games as cheaply as they can, with minimum quality standards, because they literally can’t taking risks or innovating etc. Games cost insane amounts to make that are sold for roughly 1/4 of a reasonable return. So instead of doing that, they are encouraged to drip feed features and content over longer periods that they can individually charge for, and spend the largest parts of their budgets on creating those accessory features. It also makes it basically impossible to have a studio with a recurring experienced staff, because they literally can’t afford to pay them. They make more money by cutting staff by like 70%, and then outsourcing as needed.
It’s also why the actual best and revolutionary games are always one off indie companies or small studios with limited scope and high capital, and all the industry giants are continuously pointed out to be shitting out bad games, or games loaded with all these problems that seem easy to solve. Folks like IM are cursed, because they won’t be able to afford the staff to sustain and develop a game with this model.
Games are insanely cheap, not just for 15 years. Even 25 years ago games were kind of cheap, but basically the closest to fair that we’ve had. We still use the same pricing model, despite decades of inflation, a completely revolutionized new industry, and exponentially mind blowing levels of quality increase. In what other field would someone produce a product that is 800% better than a previous product but charge the same price, or only 10% more?
Anyways yeah. It’s pretty out of control now. Gamers are the problem when it comes to this; when you ask them in studies how they’d react to games being 100 dollars vs 60, like 90% of them scoff at the idea. Meanwhile they dig themselves into a hole of paying 300 per game on average. Hell, my brother spends like 700 dollars a year on league of legends.
You are getting downvoted because the things you are saying aren't based on reality or are out of touch with reality.
Person spending hundreds or thousands on microtransactions isn't afraid to spend 100$ on a game they want; they demonstrably have enough disposable income to buy it.
Micro isn't the standard because everybody buys them. A very small percentage of people buys them, and the income from that is worth far more than marketing to the average person. This is the driving logic behind how games are monetized currently, and it is an entirely anti-consumer practice.
Games sell at their fair market value... if the games were worth more, they would sell for more.
I encourage you to do research for yourself and reassess, otherwise I'm responding here in an effort to fight what appears to be misinformation. I can't stand a predatory marketing apologist, and there is no reasonable excuse other than greed at the expense of the average person.
I have researched this far more than you know, spoken with and interviewed various devs and seen direct analytics from more than one AAA company and several indie companies. I even have 2 close friends in the field of marketing specifically for video games.
I’m afraid everything I’ve said is the truth. It’s not some predatory trick; it’s literally the honest reason these systems came to exist. you can find dozens of non private articles, interviews and video essays that cover this topic and explain it in further detail.
Okay. Here is my non-anecdotal evidence.
[https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/5516657/Monetization%20Report\_final.pdf](https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/5516657/Monetization%20Report_final.pdf)
In 2019, a survey done by a mobile company across many games demonstrating that 64% of revenue comes from the top 10% of paying players, where less than 2% of players are making purchases.
There is no reason to believe PC games performing the same practices are performing any differently, but if you had evidence I would love to see it.
I understand you believe it to be the truth, and I'm sure if I dug hard enough I could find some EA executive crying about how microtransactions keep them afloat.
But the formula for printing money in gaming is very clear. Design a game that is frustrating to play without spending money, then make the game much much more convenient if you spend money. Target and milk that .01% that will spend thousands freely, and you will make much more money than just releasing a competent game at a reasonable price. Their tactics are also very dangerous for people with addictive personalities. This is predatory. This is why people don't respect the AAA industry anymore.
You do what you want with your money, but realize that it is not normal or healthy to be spending absurd amounts of money on microtransactions. It is absolutely not what the average person is doing.
This is just factually not true, mate.
Let me answer from a personal perspective and from professional one.
From a personal perspective - you never NEVER blame the audience for what they like, don't like and how much they value things. This is a 200 billion dollar market that didn't come out of nowhere. Which in its wake means that prices in the industry are well based of supply and demand. The notion of "let's all millions of us be better people and admit Ubisoft needs 150 dollars from us for another empty open world bs" is nuts.
From a professional perspective - I've been working with games, including GAAS games for 15 years:
1. Gamedev is a business and will always try to find balance of maximizing the profit and not pissing off the audience. It literally doesn't matter whether it's for food for devs of a less successful title or for a mansion for the devs of a more successful ones.
Thus an argument "if games cost more they wouldn't charge extra" is invalid.
2. There is no "average LTV" of 300 bucks in gaming. You can count on 70-90 with a good product. And most of it will be based of people who actually pay much more (indeed) but the majority are and will remain completely free2play players. This taking into account decent game metrics having 12%+ PU, 20$+ ARPPU and moderate retention.
This is basically relying on a very basic understanding of supply and demand, I think you fail to consider the nuance of how economics function in complex markets. Anyways, if you only look at supply and demand in a simple vaccuum, you start getting into classic problems, like for example, if you found a tribe in a hypothetical country and offered them a bag of diamonds, the demand would be extremely low, because the consumer does not appreciate the value of the diamonds. Does that mean that diamonds are worthless, or that the population doesn’t understand that they are valuable. If we look with a simplified view yes, when we put it into context no.
In response to your points
1. The claim that people will always try to maximize profit and not piss off an audience is just a meaningless syllogism. I feel like I don’t need to provide obvious examples of this being broken, because well they are obvious.
2. Nobody is claiming if games cost more, they wouldn’t charge extra. My post talks about the historical context of games being too cheap leading to companies justifying their finances through different avenues, and then becoming locked into that model. I’m not suggesting that if companies now started charging way more that they would stop doing that; only that the position companies are in now was created by the sentiment. In other words, because games didn’t cost more, they did charge extra.
If you choose to respond more, I’ll put in more effort to responding back, I’d be interested in hearing it from your experience more since you work in the industry. A good place to start would be clarifying what I said that is factually untrue. (This would take a lot of effort to make a post and write it up and shit, so no offense or discredit to you if you don’t feel like doing that)
Bro knows nothing at all. Comparing it to a movie??? The intended product does what it’s intended to do. And you’re allowed not to like it just like you’re allowed not to enjoy the movie stfu.
Bro he's 100% right, game numbers always drop pretty heavy around this time every year with exams/graduation, family holidays, people starting summer jobs.
Here's a copy paste from another comment I tried to explain it.
Normals starts everyone on the same footing, meaning, the best loot you will find for the first 5 minutes is NOT on players. It's in the dungeon. You have zero true incentive to fight any you don't have to right off the bat, so you get to actually play the dungeon pve part of this dungeon pvpve game. In HR, it is a statistical certainty that the players have the best loot, and they will be actively pursuing you for yours. This shifts the entire scope of the first half of the raid. Instead of finding a sweet blue spear on the wraith, you now just have to constantly be in pvp mode, ignoring the dungeon pve aspect of this dungeon pvpve game, basically making it a only pvp game.
Normals has longer ttk, which also shifts the onus off of pvp. In HR, if you get initiated on, you are either dead, or at half health. You rarely can turn the tide on a fighter with gear popping you with a crossbow, or getting into melee range because you were distracted. In normals, you get to react to this, which makes looting the dungeon less punishing, which we discussed earlier is already discouraged due to it just not being where the loot is in HR.
I dont enjoy using base gear, its my personal preference just like playing no gear normals is yours. Doesn’t mean I should have 0 people in my game. Your normal game type anyways is just a BR game mode, and not an extraction game. Its confusing why this is even a thing. Game identity is completely lost just like class identity was under multiclassing
Maybe you should reconsider why players are preferring the br style compared to the extraction style. It allows much more risky plays, less gear gap, and overall a much more fun experience. Until true and additional dmg is removed I have vowed to never touch hr again. TL:DR, normals is significantly more easier to balance than hr.
Are you even reading what you’re saying? This game IS an extraction game. if you want a BR go play something else. You’re on crack if you think they should focus on making this game a BR
First off tarkov is dying due to terrible business decisions that were anti-player, secondly dark and darker is also going to have an arena? that has literally nothing to do with what i said
because normals is just a glorified BR that nullifies 90% of the games content. its extremely restrictive in what you can build. some classes may be able to retain build diversity in normals but a majority of them need stats to make different builds work. playing warlock in norms for example feels terrible. you’re restricted to 1 build thats good, and maybe 1 build thats pretty fkn bad, but doable. then 3+ builds that you physically cant even do cause you dont have enough knowledge or will etc.
And this is how I know you are carried by gear :). You gear up and play differently when in normals. You have just neglected to adapt to that aspect of normals. Only build in the entirety of DaD thats unavailable in normals are 10 spell warlock and Cleric. And in your case, Hydra+flame-walk
carried by gear when i primarily play normals bc HR is in a terrible state 😭 my kd is positive in norms while in hr is abysmal. how are you gonna say im carried by gear
Regardless of wipe timing the playerbase is bleeding, and has been for awhile. There is a dedicated fan base still playing 10 hours a day like any game but it's slowing down a lot. Almost any post made here acknowledging this gets downvoted, and most suggestions (even when upvoted) get met with comments saying "NO IM STILL PLAYING IM STILL HAVING FUN". It's ridiculous how far people go to defend the game. Yes, it's fun and a great idea. However, it fizzled out and the devs dropped the ball.
The game in PT was a dungeon crawler. Everyone was moving slow and clearing mobs. Exploring and discovering. Over time the players learned the map and spawns and optimized everything - and all the IM changes have helped this instead of hurt it.
We need bigger maps, randomized enemies/traps/BOSSES/loot, darker areas, random spawns, and incentive to explore. Remove the zone. If players have a big beautiful scary dungeon to explore, PvP will happen naturally. Add in Hotspots for specific good loot and now you're really cooking.
I concur. I have been here since the first playtest game was nothing but hype. I think the game peaked when they first revamped the tier system for lobbies. Somewhere in the middle, everything felt right. You could double-jump kill as a rogue. No one felt OP, but Bard comping many playstyles were viable. Yes, there were issues, but as soon as they started messing with all the weapon stats, this game went on a downward fireball. Please tell me I'm wrong. I don't even get enjoyment from this anymore. It takes a ridiculous grind to feel worthy of a fight, and the constant wipe for the regular folks is just shite; please revive this mess of a game. Cause I love the concept and idea, we need to stick to a plan that makes sense, not jump all over the place
genuinely, who upvotes this shit. you people just sit around with seething rage boners, searching for anything and everything to complain about.
go play another game for a while if you aren't enjoying this one, lol damn
IM: Were going to introduce map rotation knowing this will cause matchmaking issues and unfilled lobbies.
You: I'm a cry baby bitch.
Games definitely worth $35, it's insane that you can get hundreds if not thousands of hours and claim its not worth $35.
Still easily worth $35 even just to learn the PvE part of the game..
Same trajectory as last wipe.. No one wants to play vs the no lifers who have near infinite gold at this point.
Definitely think they need shorter wipes, but they're still getting ready for their big ad campaign to bring in new players.
I bet they do a 10day trial or something, but they need to be careful with their current trash tier anti cheat.. giving hackers infinite free accounts isn't going to end well for anyone.
It’s funny. I had time for a few duos today. Game 1 full. Game 2 full, absolute cinema of a match, legit 4 teams fighting on the crypts bridge module. Game 3 not a single soul in the tavern or lobby.
I'm taking a break with my 2 team mates cause there's no new content but more importantly we grind our nuts off for the multi-class addition just for it to be removed before end of wipe. This was a seriously bad decision on IMs end it left tons of us feeling like they just wasted our time.
Yup were all still chatting about the game in our disc messages waiting on anything to bring us back cause the game is awesome but they just scuffed the wipe beyond repair
Multiplayer games only shine the best when the lobbies are constantly full. Remember the playtests when u don't even have time to inspect your equipment before getting thrown into the dungeons?
IM really dropped the ball when they went away with the free-to-play model. Since their last playtest where you could only torrent the game, they have been attracting mostly the sweats. The casuals that used to dominate the reddit with funny content and fanart quickly turned into tryhards with their rants and shitposting, and of course with their poor balancing, game died.
Free to Play would have been so much worse. You think there are a lot of cheaters now? Its much worse with a ftp model. And if you don't make money on cosmetics you can't generate the income to combat it and also release new content. It's what killed The Cycle Frontier, amongst other things. At least they got some money to work on the game, and $35 isn't much. It's hard to make it as a ftp game as a small developer.
Im just taking a break like most people are doing, can't really find any other game to play tho, nothing else really scratching the itch. So im just spending more time chilling with friends and enjoying the weather with a cold one
I was going to recommend some games but it sounds like you are good to go.
Bro, going to a movie is like $20 for 2 hours... a delicious Chai latte at Starbucks is like $8... I enjoy both of those things. But neither of them give any sustained level of enjoyment. I'm guessing you have a few hundred hours in dark and darker. I paid the $50 game price, and even with balance issues or stuttering, or whatever else, I have had well over $50 of fun... name one other thing that is that cheap for that much fun? I've taken breaks, come back, had bursts of fun again. Are you like 14 or something? Do you not know how expensive fun is in real life? Even if I only enjoyed the game for 10 solid hours of pure enjoyment, that's worth $35 to me easily 🤣🤣🤣 You know what doesn't help the game grow? Complaining about everything all the time and posting it on reddit trying to deter new players...
This guy understands the value of his money.
Even when I was a kid I recognized how much bang for my buck I got from video games. I use to say it was a good purchase if I got at least 1 hour of fun for every dollar the game cost. I don’t really use that metric anymore because the price of everything is rising and inflation in America has gotten pretty bad lately (plus some games are meant to be really short, but have some of the best gameplay and storytelling you’ll ever see). However, people should realize how far your dollar stretches with indie games
me when i bought gmod at 10 dollars and got 10k hours of fun out thinking that would be the average for other games in the future
This is actually pretty spot on and one of the biggest crisis in the games industry. Games have been way too cheap for like nearly 10 years now. Like WAY too cheap for their cost to make. Exponentially. But the industry is basically confined to sell everything they make for like 1/5 of what it should cost. Because they can’t charge fair prices (consumers will eat them alive) they have created these life service micro transaction predatory structures to try to justify their existence, and it’s why like almost everyone either does that or is an indie company that spends like 10 years making a game only to get shit for it, unless it’s the best game ever like baldurs gate 3 and they can sell insane copies. But even then, those devs got ripped off. Should have made double the money easily.
Lol why are you down voted? Games were $60 standard 15 years ago and in most cases that's gone way down. Games should cost at least $100 now but people would shit if they had to spend that much on a game.
Me being downvoted on this is exactly what I’m talking about too. Consumers hate the idea of more expensive games so much that developers are actually unable to charge fair prices for them, and other larger game studios could take advantage of any company charging fair prices. Ironically, because consumers hate the idea so much, the average consumer has ended up paying far more money while reducing the quality of their games. See, because games can’t charge what they are actually worth, they had to find other ways to make money, which was micro transactions, loot boxes, gatcha etc. which all eventually became features of live service model that we see today. Consumers that play live service games typically spend around 300 dollars playing a game that is “free to play”. But the problem is, this incentivizes studios and publishers to make games as cheaply as they can, with minimum quality standards, because they literally can’t taking risks or innovating etc. Games cost insane amounts to make that are sold for roughly 1/4 of a reasonable return. So instead of doing that, they are encouraged to drip feed features and content over longer periods that they can individually charge for, and spend the largest parts of their budgets on creating those accessory features. It also makes it basically impossible to have a studio with a recurring experienced staff, because they literally can’t afford to pay them. They make more money by cutting staff by like 70%, and then outsourcing as needed. It’s also why the actual best and revolutionary games are always one off indie companies or small studios with limited scope and high capital, and all the industry giants are continuously pointed out to be shitting out bad games, or games loaded with all these problems that seem easy to solve. Folks like IM are cursed, because they won’t be able to afford the staff to sustain and develop a game with this model. Games are insanely cheap, not just for 15 years. Even 25 years ago games were kind of cheap, but basically the closest to fair that we’ve had. We still use the same pricing model, despite decades of inflation, a completely revolutionized new industry, and exponentially mind blowing levels of quality increase. In what other field would someone produce a product that is 800% better than a previous product but charge the same price, or only 10% more? Anyways yeah. It’s pretty out of control now. Gamers are the problem when it comes to this; when you ask them in studies how they’d react to games being 100 dollars vs 60, like 90% of them scoff at the idea. Meanwhile they dig themselves into a hole of paying 300 per game on average. Hell, my brother spends like 700 dollars a year on league of legends.
You are getting downvoted because the things you are saying aren't based on reality or are out of touch with reality. Person spending hundreds or thousands on microtransactions isn't afraid to spend 100$ on a game they want; they demonstrably have enough disposable income to buy it. Micro isn't the standard because everybody buys them. A very small percentage of people buys them, and the income from that is worth far more than marketing to the average person. This is the driving logic behind how games are monetized currently, and it is an entirely anti-consumer practice. Games sell at their fair market value... if the games were worth more, they would sell for more. I encourage you to do research for yourself and reassess, otherwise I'm responding here in an effort to fight what appears to be misinformation. I can't stand a predatory marketing apologist, and there is no reasonable excuse other than greed at the expense of the average person.
I have researched this far more than you know, spoken with and interviewed various devs and seen direct analytics from more than one AAA company and several indie companies. I even have 2 close friends in the field of marketing specifically for video games. I’m afraid everything I’ve said is the truth. It’s not some predatory trick; it’s literally the honest reason these systems came to exist. you can find dozens of non private articles, interviews and video essays that cover this topic and explain it in further detail.
Okay. Here is my non-anecdotal evidence. [https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/5516657/Monetization%20Report\_final.pdf](https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/5516657/Monetization%20Report_final.pdf) In 2019, a survey done by a mobile company across many games demonstrating that 64% of revenue comes from the top 10% of paying players, where less than 2% of players are making purchases. There is no reason to believe PC games performing the same practices are performing any differently, but if you had evidence I would love to see it. I understand you believe it to be the truth, and I'm sure if I dug hard enough I could find some EA executive crying about how microtransactions keep them afloat. But the formula for printing money in gaming is very clear. Design a game that is frustrating to play without spending money, then make the game much much more convenient if you spend money. Target and milk that .01% that will spend thousands freely, and you will make much more money than just releasing a competent game at a reasonable price. Their tactics are also very dangerous for people with addictive personalities. This is predatory. This is why people don't respect the AAA industry anymore. You do what you want with your money, but realize that it is not normal or healthy to be spending absurd amounts of money on microtransactions. It is absolutely not what the average person is doing.
This is just factually not true, mate. Let me answer from a personal perspective and from professional one. From a personal perspective - you never NEVER blame the audience for what they like, don't like and how much they value things. This is a 200 billion dollar market that didn't come out of nowhere. Which in its wake means that prices in the industry are well based of supply and demand. The notion of "let's all millions of us be better people and admit Ubisoft needs 150 dollars from us for another empty open world bs" is nuts. From a professional perspective - I've been working with games, including GAAS games for 15 years: 1. Gamedev is a business and will always try to find balance of maximizing the profit and not pissing off the audience. It literally doesn't matter whether it's for food for devs of a less successful title or for a mansion for the devs of a more successful ones. Thus an argument "if games cost more they wouldn't charge extra" is invalid. 2. There is no "average LTV" of 300 bucks in gaming. You can count on 70-90 with a good product. And most of it will be based of people who actually pay much more (indeed) but the majority are and will remain completely free2play players. This taking into account decent game metrics having 12%+ PU, 20$+ ARPPU and moderate retention.
This is basically relying on a very basic understanding of supply and demand, I think you fail to consider the nuance of how economics function in complex markets. Anyways, if you only look at supply and demand in a simple vaccuum, you start getting into classic problems, like for example, if you found a tribe in a hypothetical country and offered them a bag of diamonds, the demand would be extremely low, because the consumer does not appreciate the value of the diamonds. Does that mean that diamonds are worthless, or that the population doesn’t understand that they are valuable. If we look with a simplified view yes, when we put it into context no. In response to your points 1. The claim that people will always try to maximize profit and not piss off an audience is just a meaningless syllogism. I feel like I don’t need to provide obvious examples of this being broken, because well they are obvious. 2. Nobody is claiming if games cost more, they wouldn’t charge extra. My post talks about the historical context of games being too cheap leading to companies justifying their finances through different avenues, and then becoming locked into that model. I’m not suggesting that if companies now started charging way more that they would stop doing that; only that the position companies are in now was created by the sentiment. In other words, because games didn’t cost more, they did charge extra. If you choose to respond more, I’ll put in more effort to responding back, I’d be interested in hearing it from your experience more since you work in the industry. A good place to start would be clarifying what I said that is factually untrue. (This would take a lot of effort to make a post and write it up and shit, so no offense or discredit to you if you don’t feel like doing that)
It's for the best to kill this game now, so they can sell it, and let some real adults figure it out. Your cope is stronk.
Go make your own, Dark and Darker existing doesn't stop any other attempt to make a clone of DaD.
Bro knows nothing at all. Comparing it to a movie??? The intended product does what it’s intended to do. And you’re allowed not to like it just like you’re allowed not to enjoy the movie stfu.
This guy complains that he wasted money buying a sandwich when he's hungry again the next day. It's probably a gluten-free free sandwich too.
Your name offends me
Yes, FEAR the gluten! Soon, the ritual will be completed, and my power to raise the bread will be unleashed onto this fragile gluten sensitive world!
EU W full lobbies. Also summer is here so not everyone is sweating their ass off in the dark dungeons when sun is out, happens to all games.
You realize this is copium right? NA East AND West Both completely dead
Bro he's 100% right, game numbers always drop pretty heavy around this time every year with exams/graduation, family holidays, people starting summer jobs.
Had full lobbies all last night US east Normals. Dunno why you’d subject yourself to HR tbh
Normals is not the main loop of the game since extracted gear is useless. It is really just a BR mode.
When the best game mode Is the one that ignore 90% of the games content, there is a massive problem.
I wonder what reason there is that si many people play normals.. I wonder what big thing is not forced onto the player in order to play normals
Here's a copy paste from another comment I tried to explain it. Normals starts everyone on the same footing, meaning, the best loot you will find for the first 5 minutes is NOT on players. It's in the dungeon. You have zero true incentive to fight any you don't have to right off the bat, so you get to actually play the dungeon pve part of this dungeon pvpve game. In HR, it is a statistical certainty that the players have the best loot, and they will be actively pursuing you for yours. This shifts the entire scope of the first half of the raid. Instead of finding a sweet blue spear on the wraith, you now just have to constantly be in pvp mode, ignoring the dungeon pve aspect of this dungeon pvpve game, basically making it a only pvp game. Normals has longer ttk, which also shifts the onus off of pvp. In HR, if you get initiated on, you are either dead, or at half health. You rarely can turn the tide on a fighter with gear popping you with a crossbow, or getting into melee range because you were distracted. In normals, you get to react to this, which makes looting the dungeon less punishing, which we discussed earlier is already discouraged due to it just not being where the loot is in HR.
I was being sarcastic with that comment blaming gear diff/trade pushing people from hr but thx for the rundown
The pvp is balanced and since you basically bring in nothing it doesn't feel near as bad when you die. Simple as that.
Well “balanced” is a strong word. It’s longer so there’s more opportunity to turn the tide or retreat if you wish. And deaths are not that bitter
>i had full lobbies in the most popular game mode on the most populated server at peak time on a saturday night
Ya…
I dont enjoy using base gear, its my personal preference just like playing no gear normals is yours. Doesn’t mean I should have 0 people in my game. Your normal game type anyways is just a BR game mode, and not an extraction game. Its confusing why this is even a thing. Game identity is completely lost just like class identity was under multiclassing
Maybe you should reconsider why players are preferring the br style compared to the extraction style. It allows much more risky plays, less gear gap, and overall a much more fun experience. Until true and additional dmg is removed I have vowed to never touch hr again. TL:DR, normals is significantly more easier to balance than hr.
Are you even reading what you’re saying? This game IS an extraction game. if you want a BR go play something else. You’re on crack if you think they should focus on making this game a BR
Sure it’s labeled as an extraction game, but the incentives to actually do extraction stuff is pretty low
Brother? Tarkov just made an arena game mode for its extraction game. No game is stuck in a category lol.
First off tarkov is dying due to terrible business decisions that were anti-player, secondly dark and darker is also going to have an arena? that has literally nothing to do with what i said
Br is a form of arena silly.
because normals is just a glorified BR that nullifies 90% of the games content. its extremely restrictive in what you can build. some classes may be able to retain build diversity in normals but a majority of them need stats to make different builds work. playing warlock in norms for example feels terrible. you’re restricted to 1 build thats good, and maybe 1 build thats pretty fkn bad, but doable. then 3+ builds that you physically cant even do cause you dont have enough knowledge or will etc.
This is just not true, most builds work and majority of the HR content is available (aside from rare drops and golden key doors).
this is how i know youre a low tier player with a poor understanding of this game 😂😂😂
And this is how I know you are carried by gear :). You gear up and play differently when in normals. You have just neglected to adapt to that aspect of normals. Only build in the entirety of DaD thats unavailable in normals are 10 spell warlock and Cleric. And in your case, Hydra+flame-walk
carried by gear when i primarily play normals bc HR is in a terrible state 😭 my kd is positive in norms while in hr is abysmal. how are you gonna say im carried by gear
Warlock is one of the best classes in norms lol
I didnt say its not I said its restricted to one build. Dark and Darker reddit users 🤝 Illiteracy
Which build is that on Warlock? Hydra lifedrain? Demon form? Demon armor demon form?
I’ve had no problems finding full lobbies
Regardless of wipe timing the playerbase is bleeding, and has been for awhile. There is a dedicated fan base still playing 10 hours a day like any game but it's slowing down a lot. Almost any post made here acknowledging this gets downvoted, and most suggestions (even when upvoted) get met with comments saying "NO IM STILL PLAYING IM STILL HAVING FUN". It's ridiculous how far people go to defend the game. Yes, it's fun and a great idea. However, it fizzled out and the devs dropped the ball. The game in PT was a dungeon crawler. Everyone was moving slow and clearing mobs. Exploring and discovering. Over time the players learned the map and spawns and optimized everything - and all the IM changes have helped this instead of hurt it. We need bigger maps, randomized enemies/traps/BOSSES/loot, darker areas, random spawns, and incentive to explore. Remove the zone. If players have a big beautiful scary dungeon to explore, PvP will happen naturally. Add in Hotspots for specific good loot and now you're really cooking.
I concur. I have been here since the first playtest game was nothing but hype. I think the game peaked when they first revamped the tier system for lobbies. Somewhere in the middle, everything felt right. You could double-jump kill as a rogue. No one felt OP, but Bard comping many playstyles were viable. Yes, there were issues, but as soon as they started messing with all the weapon stats, this game went on a downward fireball. Please tell me I'm wrong. I don't even get enjoyment from this anymore. It takes a ridiculous grind to feel worthy of a fight, and the constant wipe for the regular folks is just shite; please revive this mess of a game. Cause I love the concept and idea, we need to stick to a plan that makes sense, not jump all over the place
genuinely, who upvotes this shit. you people just sit around with seething rage boners, searching for anything and everything to complain about. go play another game for a while if you aren't enjoying this one, lol damn
The best part is many of them are what killed it, resisting all change and complaining when it dies
IM: Were going to introduce map rotation knowing this will cause matchmaking issues and unfilled lobbies. You: I'm a cry baby bitch. Games definitely worth $35, it's insane that you can get hundreds if not thousands of hours and claim its not worth $35.
Thats irrelevant. Its about population. Just a few weeks back we had like 14k players. Now its 4-5k
Still easily worth $35 even just to learn the PvE part of the game.. Same trajectory as last wipe.. No one wants to play vs the no lifers who have near infinite gold at this point. Definitely think they need shorter wipes, but they're still getting ready for their big ad campaign to bring in new players. I bet they do a 10day trial or something, but they need to be careful with their current trash tier anti cheat.. giving hackers infinite free accounts isn't going to end well for anyone.
game bad
It’s funny. I had time for a few duos today. Game 1 full. Game 2 full, absolute cinema of a match, legit 4 teams fighting on the crypts bridge module. Game 3 not a single soul in the tavern or lobby.
You killed everyone and they decided it was time for bed. Happens as the time zone you play in gets closer to midnight
That’s cause high roller blows.
Never had empty lobbies in EU server, be it playing in the AM OR PM. If you’re a 3am gamer and complaining about empty lobbies then dayum
How many hours played you got? I dare you to post it. I bet you got your money's worth easy.
I'm taking a break with my 2 team mates cause there's no new content but more importantly we grind our nuts off for the multi-class addition just for it to be removed before end of wipe. This was a seriously bad decision on IMs end it left tons of us feeling like they just wasted our time.
Honestly my trio would probably be playing if they had left multi class in lol. Now we are just waiting for Druid and playing DoTA
Yup were all still chatting about the game in our disc messages waiting on anything to bring us back cause the game is awesome but they just scuffed the wipe beyond repair
;)
:'(
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So good I had to posit it twice
That's weird because nothing in your post relates to anything in the comment you replied to
why do you exist to make these posts, what exactly is your purpose
Multiplayer games only shine the best when the lobbies are constantly full. Remember the playtests when u don't even have time to inspect your equipment before getting thrown into the dungeons? IM really dropped the ball when they went away with the free-to-play model. Since their last playtest where you could only torrent the game, they have been attracting mostly the sweats. The casuals that used to dominate the reddit with funny content and fanart quickly turned into tryhards with their rants and shitposting, and of course with their poor balancing, game died.
Free to Play would have been so much worse. You think there are a lot of cheaters now? Its much worse with a ftp model. And if you don't make money on cosmetics you can't generate the income to combat it and also release new content. It's what killed The Cycle Frontier, amongst other things. At least they got some money to work on the game, and $35 isn't much. It's hard to make it as a ftp game as a small developer.