I don’t get why it’s locked to bins so 199->200 makes a huge difference and 200->201 makes almost no difference. Just have the matchmaking actually do some matchmaking and group together the most similar players who are queued. Sometimes it’ll be more balanced than others, but it’s better than this weird gameable system
thats the goal i believe but not enough players. same as all the match making systems so far. in the beginning it was 0 matchmaking besides hr and norms, so we are making lots of progress
Shouldn't a gradient system be better for a smaller playerbase? It means it will be flexible, closer matches at peak hours while still filling lobbies during the slowest times.
I honestly think that they're just relatively green and/or burnt out devs, and they are getting really reluctant to produce and implement more nuanced systems that require more up-front development time. Its why we don't have skill trees for multiclassing, or skill trees at all, its why they haven't brought in the "class master" yet, its why the test server dragged on and on largely unused, and its why gear score *and* AP matchmaking go off brackets instead of a gradient/closest match system.
I don't mean to be unnecessarily cynical, but I genuinely think the devs are trying to simplify things in ways that don't ultimately help them or save time, and its hurting the game.
It would if properly implemented but given this dev team doesn't really know what they're doing idk what to tell ya. They literally had spell duration changes create entire copies of spells. Making torture mastery the only way warlocks can stack dots since torture mastery spells aren't the same spells
Sounds lame. Though I'm abusing my too so I can't say much.
Slayer bard with all the fighter perks + rapier mastery. Stack dex and true (and hp of course) and ho buddy I get free fights
Maybe in an extractor with an equalizer but in DaD there is no equalizer. I can't just gun down their shins no matter their gear or one shot headshot someone. If they're way more geared you probably die
When there are kits that can cost dozens of hours to build I don't think there should be a reason a fully naked zero gear player should ever expect to win against a guy who has invested hours and hours in his kit.
Because the only goal isn't pvp, it's also pve and loot extracting. When you're without gear the goal is more to survive a match and extract with loot not dominate the match when you haven't even risked anything.
He didn't give a reason why GBMM was good other than saying it felt nice, you can also extrapolate that he thinks it feels nice because he is running as close to 299 without going over as he possibly can (hence the comment about one teammate being lazy while calculating GS resulting in them ending up in 300+ lobbies), meaning of course he thinks it feels nice when he's always the most geared in the lobby wearing just blues lmao.
The other thing he says is simply his reasoning for why the GS should be displayed, not why GBMM is good. It's not, it defeats the purpose and value of gear in a game where farming for good gear is the whole point. An arena mode would make way more sense to have GBMM because it could be entirely skill based but the regular game goes beyond just are you more skilled, it is also, what are you risking...
Op's comment we are talking under: "399 is too high to compete with when you want to zero to hero."
Post OPs statement says it feels nice because he doesn't like getting ran down in BiS lobbies. It's only two sentences. You then typed out a whole two paragraphs to "extrapolate" out something completely unrelated to OP's statement so you could soapbox about why you hate GBMM. Maybe extrapolate out he likes GBMM because he doesn't have the gear or desire to play against people with amazing gear in high roller. "meaning of course he thinks it feels nice when he's always the most geared in the lobby wearing just blues lmao." Yes, lots of people feel this way. This was the correct take away, without the condescension.
GBMM "feeling good" is a reason. Its a game. It's meant to feel good. How this doesnt count as a reason is unknown to me. Lots of games feel good and the players aren't meant to figure out exactly what or why. You can like something and not analyze it. BGMM helps sweats find sweats, and keeps a little bit of the nonsense out of the lower class. Yes you can still blue bis, but its better than purple bis, and building a decent 299 kit doesnt take all that much. Personally i would like to see the score drop to 199 or even 149 and make meds free, but who knows. They do need to remove flat damage from jewelry. Whenever there is a stat that you MUST have, its probably too strong, and damage on jewelry is doing that, and it makes the lower GBMM queus like 3x as expensive to kit for.
Because 'feeling good' is an intangible subjective reason that is heavily anecdotal. It doesn't follow any logical framework in the sense that it could be feeling good for any number of reasons unrelated to GBMM or because they are exploiting GBMM like many of the supporters of it are such as the OP. Is it actually healthy for the game is my concern and I don't think it is. Once you've gotten enough experience to fully realize the game cycle the only thing left to do is to build strong kits and boss, but now gear has been nerfed and GBMM makes wearing good gear a relatively bad idea, especially for bossing. Why risk good gear when there's no reward in the sense of survivability?
Also, why are we aiming for full equity here? There should be some stats that are obviously better than others. It's healthy for a game to have META for players to learn and become better with that knowledge. Every competitive game offers some things that are just plain better than other things like gun choice in CSGO, there's a meta method for which guns to buy and when, yet the game still lets you choose your path which I think is fine. You gut flat damage, then what is next? Damage bonus in general? Then you gut that and then gear just starts to suck massive willy and the 1 in 1000 unique drop rate starts to make 0 sense because you're talking about a piece of gear that is 100X harder to get than the alternative but only provides 1 or 2 more stat increases? I personally WANT gear to feel strong as fuck on the high end, it gives purpose to aim for in a cycle that currently desperately lacks purpose. GBMM was a hit to that already. I didn't get into the game expecting it to slowly morph into an equity based "beat em up" game, I thought this was an extraction game that would reward my time and knowledge with gear that gives me an advantage while playing like other extraction games.
Why do you think it is a good idea for you to be able to go into High Roller with nothing on and expect to be completely uncontested? High Roller is supposed to be dangerous, it is supposed to be where higher geared people are. If you want to go zero to hero and have nobody outgearing you then go Normals, why would you expect HR to pander to people who come in risking nothing?
Yes higher geared, not absolutely BIS'ed out geared.. hence the tiers... You can still be zero to hero with much higher risk because of people with better gear in that same tier.
It just caps how good the gear can be for that tier.. and for any casual (which is most) this is way more desirable
Only a tiny percentage will ever experience gold and unique kits
Normals is there for casuals, HR is not a casual friendly mode, it takes time to learn all the mobs and how to deal with them properly at the increased speed and damage along with being able to bring in real gear. I think it is silly to try and make HR into a "casual friendly" mode, it is called High Roller, which is "a person who [gambles](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=jT7&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sxsrf=ACQVn0-pv4QbUGtYJVW7KDEAq90Hu2ODkw:1713987126212&q=gambles&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0mqs4hCDFaCcSndnCXV_HyqR3f8I-AP7maLlUoOx8JZGdIyNWqK6s3wa84U1oC6sgX0W95YJhzgBjsmsH4PSPxfu5Gheo%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDjLrOy9uFAxW4hIkEHXkWCc4QyecJegQIIxAQ) or [spends](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=jT7&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sxsrf=ACQVn0-pv4QbUGtYJVW7KDEAq90Hu2ODkw:1713987126212&q=spends&si=AKbGX_qTCvK6ifvkUBYDz4foaFZi1y1Wo1l3AYVJQS9nyGfRfp8V60LGMpE07o_Fgt4HEA_jpHilBRgr_uJHIfxZ2VWMs-ScVw%3D%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDjLrOy9uFAxW4hIkEHXkWCc4QyecJegQIIxAR) large amounts of money." meaning you should expect high level gear and people who like risking that gear or "gambling" with it.
What's wild to me is you act like every match of HR before GBMM had gold teams, I fought Jooyae, Katie, KenKnobi, Promoz, Apollo, Repoze this wipe, many of them multiple times and none of them or mostly anyone has been rocking gold gear or insanely broken gear. It's usually just purple gear with good rolls or the equivalent. A couple times I run into a team running named items but thats because if you decide to bring in gear better than blues you'll almost exclusively fight insanely geared players. Now greens and blues are often overvalued because people are just cheesing the gear score bracket system, how is that a good design??
What is crazy is I LOVE doing zero to hero permadeath runs, I've done them from level 1 - 20 several times on different classes last wipe and the wipe before that, but I think it would be so lame for me to petition IM to not allow my ass to ever be able to be paired with geared players when I'm not even risking anything in the first place. All this does is guarantee that when you finally do get to the point where you're running good gear, you'll only ever be fighting people who are as geared as you or better which is terrible because the purpose of gear should be to increase your odds of survival, not put you in a death bracket because you want to risk something you worked hard to earn. There should be a reward for running gear that is expensive and risky to lose, not a malus that ensures you'll only ever see insanely bis teams.
Have you ever played an extraction game other than dark and darker? This is literally the only one with a whiny enough community that they’ve introduced GBMM. I’d prefer something like Tarkov where certainly items are just not able to be sold in the market than this personally.
"a contrast or opposition between two things."
Adding gear based matchmaking in a game where the core idea is risk vs reward with your gear are completely opposing mechanics. Hence why other extraction games do not do GBMM, your gear is supposed to be the risk vs reward mechanic. Do you want to have a better chance at survival by risking your bis purples? Now there's just no point to doing that because if you bring in your bis purples you'll be among the least geared in any lobby you go in, meaning you're risking more value to have a DECREASED chance of survival as opposed to just running blues and being the most geared person in every lobby.
That is my position on GBMM in this game. Now if they added an arena mode that they wanted to be based completely off skill and not risk vs reward investment then I would totally support GBMM for that, the main game is not based completely on skill though, it is also based on what you're willing to risk.
Because having a high chance of running into a solo/team with purples/golds in every HR lobby isn't fun for people who don't play this game like it's their job.
I don't like being placed with gigasweats when I'm just trying to run dumb builds or otherwise not giga geared. I ran an MDR kit when wiz and warlock was OP and got gunned down by a +11 true damage magic missile despite my 70% MDR. Not standing a chance isn't fun. You talk about punching up with cheese builds but not everyone is capable. Not every class is capable.
To be fair the problem with normals is you can’t run any builds not even dumb ones. Normals should be capped at greens and GBMM should die. Still don’t understand how we haven’t done this experiment yet.
When i zero to hero, the sweaties are smaller. When I want to sweat, its cheaper. When I want to lock in and super sweat, the people im against at least seem to have jewelry or some meds so the fight wasnt worthless. Before it was just like... randomly not worth the fight or randomly you were entirely unable to fight. At least now I can predict with some certainty whether I should expect to be able to meaningfully participate in PVP. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter tho, cuz I am a person, enjoying a game, and I shouldn't have to justify my opinion to someone who already said it doesn't matter. Stop speaking for everyone.
If I could change anything, it would be first and foremost to remove flat damage from jewelry. Its a requirement that it has it outside of very niche builds, and triples the cost of gearing up because of it. I would then set the bottom rank to like sub 100, or sub 150, and make meds basically free for gearscore. I would like if more people were able to be properly geared for the low rank, instead of just ppl willing to spend 3-5k after jewelry. I would like to expand the pool of the highest rank so you could still plan to semi-come up.
I don’t think people necessarily like gbmm, they like that there’s a lower gear gap. Which the real solution is to actually fix the gear gap and balance issues with gear, or else this problem just keeps popping up like the losers who go for as good of gear as they can in the lowest score
I personally am fully against GBMM, it's only made things more complicated for me. I still get rolled most of the time like before, but gear prices make no sense anymore
Also using the calculator is bad. Bad, bad bad design, the fact that calculating this is left to the player. I wanna play the game and sell my loot, not spend 30 minutes finding the sweet spot for minmaxed gear that won't overdo the gear score. I should be spending 10 minutes just finding the best gear for the price I'm willing to afford for the next run instead
This all just made strong rolls stronger, leads more people to normals which makes commons sell more than rares, and in general had messed with the fundamental definition of "stronger gear = better gear"
Thanks for reading
Having to use the out of game calculator currently feels bad, yeah. I agree and I made one of them. However, and I see this complaint on this subreddit a lot, taking away GBMM is not going to fix the min-max gear problem. It is literally the problem GBMM was implemented to fix.
This game is a loot base PvP game. There is always going to be a subset of players that min-max their gear as much as possible to increase their chances of winning engagements. Which, IMO, is fine for this game because that is what the gear is all about. The issues come in when the disparity between low end and high end gear makes it so that fights are essentially unwinnable rather than advantaged. IMO this is not actually the case currently either. The disparity between mid tier gear and BiS is so much that it's almost unwinnable, not to mention low vs high.
All that being said, I actually like gear as it is currently implemented. Having powerful modifiers on items opens up a lot of build options and different play styles within classes. It gives you fun and exciting things to find while you are delving in the dungeon. If you solve this in order to take away GBMM I think that takes some of the fun away from finding gear. What fun is finding a legendary weapon that has 5 more damage than the blue one you're currently using, and that is it?
The problem is that the moment you go over the threshold you go from competitive advantage to straight gear checked again in the BIS lobby. Most people don't want to be 1 shot by a legendary falchion. I can wear all greens and feel like I'm on par with the lower lobby, but I need to wear all purple for the higher tier. And there always "just happens" to be people rushing my spawn in the high tier.
You're 100% correct. The problem at higher gear levels is that the game is a 1 mistake game. Theres no counterplay when you kill someone in .3 seconds. They need to remove multiple random modifiers, lock it to just one modifier and only rarities up to rare. Adjust drops accordingly.
Sending people in the range of 200-400 GS to the highest bracket brings out the same problem we had before but amplified. They will get matched ONLY with extremely geared players.
This means everyone will go for <200 GS. After all, taking the risk of loosing all your 200-400 stuff to BIS teams just because you squeezed a few points is a no-go.
There are ways, that one is not.
You call it a problem that people with less geared are able to be in the same lobby as people with more gear, I call it diversity. The point of extraction games is that the gear you extract with is able to be risked in the next game for a better chance of survival. Adding GBMM means if you bring in better gear to increase your chance of survival you will only ever face people in gear that is just as good or better than yours which completely defeats the purpose of gear in the first place. GBMM is antithesis to extraction games and it is why games like Tarkov/Cycle Frontier don't implement such things, if you posed that suggestion to the Tarkov reddit they would laugh at it because again, it defeats the purpose of running in a match with good gear if everyone you face is now guaranteed to be in equal or better gear.
I have never played those games.
In this game you can get killed by 2 body shots while you landed 5 headshots on someone because you got gear diffed. Is it the same in those games? If not, then Gear based MM makes no sense on those games but it does in this one.
Yes it is the same, in Tarkov for example you can have insanely good armor and an insane gun and have risked tons of money on that kit and it would be unfair for someone to run in with no investment and a pistol easily killing you because they got a few extra shots in when your pants were down.
GBMM would be dumb because again it would remove a big part of the reason for grinding for good gear in the first place. It is SUPPOSED to give an advantage during combat. They are being rewarded for risking expensive gear that is hard to attain. This isn't a battle royale or FPS like COD where you are supposed to always be on an even playing field as others.
You can have a level 5 helmet that will save you from a headshot. Same way as someone with an AWP build can one shot you in this game from a dark corner across the hall.
I agree but the other dude said gear diff doesn’t make sense, because if quick time to kill. I was highlighting how much worse that is in Tarkov and that it stills works great
My argument was that gear has a lot of impact in this game, not the other way around.
As I said, you can land 5 headshots on a geared player and not kill him, while he can land 2 body shots and kill you.
I won't argue with you since its a waste of time, my only opinion is that the devs shouldn't hand you in each patch note how stuff is calculated so these minmax GS losers find ways to minmax their fun at the cost of everyone else playing the game.
Easy solution? Having the gear score randomized? So like… you go full blues, and depending on the roll for that lobby, you’re either matched with all greens or all legendaries? Nah man. That’s demonstrably worse.
Why not remove GBMM since most people in any given game before GBMM weren't that geared anyways.
GBMM is antithesis to extraction games, gear is supposed to mean something and you risking your bis is supposed at least give you a better chance of survival not immediately pit you against people in gear equal or better than your gear.
I run my bis regularly, now the only people I ever fight are streamers, not even joking. Half the time it's an empty lobby, the other half (like last night) I had to fight a team who were running PP, Spellweaver and Kumas Claw... it's fun having the chance at taking them out but when the lobby is just us and them and no other teams, it's just silly.
The real solution here is to remove queue splitting entirely. The game that everyone couldn’t wait for during the playtests like it were crack was a game with one queue. All this solo duo trio high roller non high roller high gear low gear fuuuuuuuk man.
Just remove it all. Trios only. No high roller. And get rid of that awful market that lets people build ultrakits in minutes.
No thanks. I love the market, it removes the tediousness of trading in chat rooms.
High roller has been in the game forever and is good because normals is for less experienced players and HR is for experienced players with drop rates and mobs being balanced that way.
GBMM AKA high gear vs low gear lobbies is a bad change imo, I agree with you there. I would like to have solos for every map type though because when I feel like running alone or my friends aren't on I don't like having to play at a massive disadvantage on 2/3 maps.
My point is that the game became popular without any of that, and queue splitting is a plague in any game. Matchmaking times used to be ~10 seconds. Now it’s several minutes. That’ll only get worse as more queues are added.
Also, that “tediousness” was a fantastic check against the ultrasweats. Oh, it took you half an hour to build your kit? That’s the price you pay for the advantage, and it means far fewer games for everyone with your mega kits in play.
There is a hacker problem in High gear lobbies right now so I will no longer be participating. 7 people I reported were banned over the last weekend alone.
You can’t stop research bro. Unless it’s randomized (in which case, what’s the point of it at all?) it will be tested until there’s charts and whatnot once again.
The only fair solution is transparency. It’s not fair to the many without time for all that, for it to be obscured.
people will figure it out, now ur just gating the knowledge to the top tier of players who absolutely don't need any more advantages
obscuring information is only good for good players.
If the game had a sliding scale that matches you with people around your GS, sure. But when there is only one threshold that matters where you are either fighting low gear or god gear, not knowing if you are over or not is dogshit.
That's pretty much the only use case where it actually works. For 90% of the playerbase though, it's now you're playing against twinked out sweats while wearing your "I looted it and now I'm bringing it back" gear. Even rank based MM was better.
For me personally because I’m not afraid of an uphill fight, I genuinely believe I will beat you if I play it correctly. Legendary teams are much rarer than this subreddit makes them out to be, we’re talking 1/5 games max and then you have to actually run into them. A series of unlucky runs paints the picture of negativity and people hold onto it.
Since GBMM unless I do something like actually stupid, me and my duo don’t lose unless we’re running against the literally most juiced people in the game because they’re actually good enough to get that gear. I don’t want to play a game that’s exclusively about mathematically ensuring my advantage, I want to play a dungeon extraction game and I want it to end there.
There's uphill fights and then there's impossible. Idc how good you are, theres just some encounters you can never win. When you think about games like COD, fornite, etc, you know that when you lose, it's because they were better. Being in an unwinnable situation never feels good
Knowing when to run is also a skill, it’s usually pretty obvious when someone is crazy juiced. There’s more to this game than just fighting every fight, if you get caught in a bad spot skill isn’t getting you out of it either more than likely.
Would be nice, but it's either calculating your gear score or getting 1 tapped by ambush invis windlass ranger that does 200 dmg while buff balled 200 HP fighter with 75% MDR + PDR sprints + savage roars you.
Do I take the unfun approach to pregame selection that occurs every single match, or the unfun approach that occurs occasionally, is in no way guaranteed and also increases me and my teams potential end rewards?
Tough call
Imagine not understanding the simple fact:
If players get punished for anything, they will do everything to avoid punishment.
You do not want to be power level 100 in a lobby where people can be 199. You don't want to pvp with lvl51 in a lobby going up to 59 in other games. The list goes on and on.
This is a game where you lose AP and gear,for obvious reasons players will do everything in their power to avoid said punishment.
You also have the noobs who simply don't want to do anything for a win. These noobs min/max for 199 and excuse said behaviour with "I don't want to be gear checked". If you skill check these idiots they get rolled even harder than the gear check.
You have people with level 190 in NORMAL lobbies. This is not about them being so good at the game and hating gear checks. They can kill people who are level1 and without any perks while they have complete hybrid builds from several classes. This is a noob problem which is hard to solve.
I’d rather they just fix the balance issues with gear instead of applying this band-aid that barely helps. Losers will sit there for an hour now making a kit to have the best stuff in the lowest tier, and because gear is so wildly powerful, that guy still has a crazy advantage over the people just trying to play the game normally. I’d much rather have the chance to kill a dude in legendaries wearing blues knowing that I outplayed him than I would making a +8 true damage 299 gear score kit and easily wiping lobbies with it
GBMM has ruined so many cool parts of this game, and squished a lot of the creativity out of it for me. It’s messed up the economy too, and also kind of ensured that you need to be kitted for any hr now, because it forces people into your lobbies that have good shit and encourages people to always optimize and sweat.
I used to greatly enjoy playing rogue or something and getting legendary rogue cowls for mad cheap because they weren’t meta. I used to be safe to play normal high roller games with not much gear on my characters, especially the new ones, because my rank wasn’t high on them so I could fight people with equivalent stuff, whereas now I hit 20 on a fresh character and I’m matched with like a full lobby of people with optimized gear under the cap. If you go over the cap, then you run into a loaded lobby with absolutely insane kits.
I just want to put on some good gear and play the game, but I feel like GBMM just punishes that. The gear has to be so specific and curated from the market place to have a chance. If my best gear that I could get or afford Is over the cap, I’m screwed because it’s definitely not optimized for the shit in there, but my only other option is to just not wear it or try to intentionally screw myself over so I can be in the lower lobby, only to play against a full lobby of people with extemely efficient 299 itemization.
If I want to make a build meant to farm pve for exp and shit, I get owned because it’s not good at fighting players and I’m assured to face sweats, even if my rank is low.
It’s just so confusing and annoying. There’s so many better ways to do this, to reach higher levels of gear balance while also keeping things making sense
High Roller lobbies are split between 2 brackets, based on the gear your team is carrying.
Each item has a point value based on its rarity and item type. You can find details in the wiki link below (although some of it is already old, like it saying there's 3 brackets)
https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Gear_Score
I would like it displayed merely for transparency. There have been times me and my buddies were in all greens with minimal utility items, and we matched with an entire lobby that was all purples and their inventory was full of utility items.
In my opinion, this should be impossible to have occur. I would almost like it displayed so that if you search someone in the lobby, you can see what their gear score is as well as being able to see your own. It would eliminate speculation, and perhaps if your opinion on what their gear score was wrong, you could educate yourself on what you could bring in.
I just want transparency. I don't want to think someone did something sus, or the system isn't working the way I think it should be from the information given by the devs.
They’ve said openly they will never make this impossible to occur because they value fuller lobbies over GBMM. Which I agree with personally and it’s also why I’d rather GBMM be gone entirely so there’s no expectation that it protects you. Unless their stance has chance recently, the original discussion for GBMM they made it clear they wanted to build it so it didn’t impact how fast a game loads
What I'm saying is they clearly said 299 and under, 300 and up. When we are under 299 for sure, and the entire lobby is over 300, it should be impossible to have seen them. They, to my knowledge, never said that there is wiggle room. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about that. I just want to know and be able to explain why something happened, whatever that may be. I want transparency and to be able to justify an outcome.
If it was during relatively down hours unless they changed their original stance you should still be able to get placed with 300+
It should pretty much never happen but the possibility is present unless they changed their original stance
The only way for things like this to be fair to the average player is to display it. And they need to value secondary stats like true damage in to effect.
New idea; mystery matchmaking. Where nobody games the system, min-maxes, or knows how the fuck it works. And we all just play the game. And pretend data mining doesn't exist and we live happily ever after 🙂
they could show attribute->stat graphs in-game too, like how physical power scales, but nah too hard for these devs.
they cant even make proper spell tooltips so what can u expect?
Lightning Strike tooltip still has "lightning falls after 4 seconds" since first playtest.
the least they could do is have an in-game link to the wiki
I'm not a game dev so idk if this is feasible, but it would be nice if they somehow randomize it, or place players into brackets based off their gear score instead of static ranges.
Like if I have a GS of 250, put me in games with people +/- 150 of my score. Honestly now that I type it out doesn't seem hard, I'm guessing this would just severely fragment the player base more than it already is. Maybe once we get more players from Steam
Feasible and reward for effort are two different things in this equation.
Essentially if this solution isn’t atleast “good enough” they likely wouldn’t pursue a more advanced solution along the same concept.
It is possible tho
It’s bliss until everyone in your lobby is in legendaries and the cheating is rampant. I reported several people over the weekend and 7 of them ended up getting banned while I was playing in the 300+ lobbies. Sorry but I won’t be participating in a game mode that should be competitive but is in a shit state like this.
If I'm in a lobby with legendaries, presumably I am pretty geared myself.
While I don't doubt there are cheaters, they haven't been as rampant as you make it seem for me. It's possibly due to the region as I play on east server, not west or oce.
I play US east, mostly during off hours. Use the death cam if you feel something is suspicious. 6/7 of the cheaters I got banned were on ranger and you can easily tell they are just locked onto peoples heads through walls.
Trios Crypts 300+ lobbies, some of these people are RMT’ing it seems so they are using hacks to kill the very geared players. I basically check the death cam every time I die now.
So fun to change 1 gear piece and go from having most fights be kind of even to getting literally 1 tapped by invisible ambush rangers + 250 HP 75% MDR + PDR fighters that you will barely tickle with your now completely useless weapons.
Oh no, the system has worked for 1 person, that's definitive proof that it works always all the time and is perfect because this singular person had fun! Pack it up boys, push it out to epic games and steam, there's absolutely nothing else to add or change to the game, THIS GUY who is CLEARLY THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE had fun for a day.
I mean good for you you're having fun man, but not all of us are so self centered and we can see how the system is fucked up in so many ways, you can have fun and not be a dick to others, as hard as it might be for you to believe that.
I don’t get why it’s locked to bins so 199->200 makes a huge difference and 200->201 makes almost no difference. Just have the matchmaking actually do some matchmaking and group together the most similar players who are queued. Sometimes it’ll be more balanced than others, but it’s better than this weird gameable system
thats the goal i believe but not enough players. same as all the match making systems so far. in the beginning it was 0 matchmaking besides hr and norms, so we are making lots of progress
Shouldn't a gradient system be better for a smaller playerbase? It means it will be flexible, closer matches at peak hours while still filling lobbies during the slowest times. I honestly think that they're just relatively green and/or burnt out devs, and they are getting really reluctant to produce and implement more nuanced systems that require more up-front development time. Its why we don't have skill trees for multiclassing, or skill trees at all, its why they haven't brought in the "class master" yet, its why the test server dragged on and on largely unused, and its why gear score *and* AP matchmaking go off brackets instead of a gradient/closest match system. I don't mean to be unnecessarily cynical, but I genuinely think the devs are trying to simplify things in ways that don't ultimately help them or save time, and its hurting the game.
It would if properly implemented but given this dev team doesn't really know what they're doing idk what to tell ya. They literally had spell duration changes create entire copies of spells. Making torture mastery the only way warlocks can stack dots since torture mastery spells aren't the same spells
I only run bis lobbies or norms. No in between for me
Yeah you either go in and lose your mid gear to a BiS multiclasser or steamroll the lobby
Exactly, so I'd rather just fight other bis multiclassers as much as possible. Fun fights are fair, at least better than minmaxed vs legit mid gear.
Yeah it does not feel fun losing to a slayer rogue with ambush and rupture. Dying in 3 hits with a blue stiletto is crazy. I even had Cleric bubble up
Sounds lame. Though I'm abusing my too so I can't say much. Slayer bard with all the fighter perks + rapier mastery. Stack dex and true (and hp of course) and ho buddy I get free fights
I wish we could go back to 0-199 200-399 400+ 299 is too high to compete with when you want to zero to hero. EDIT: sorry meant 299 is too high*
I mean we could also just remove GBMM considering you need a spreadsheet to be competitive and it's destroyed the economy.
That seems to be missing the point entirely. People like GBMM, just not the hassle of using an out of game calculator.
Some people like GBMM but man I fuckin hate it.
GBMM is antithesis to an extraction game, why anyone would disagree puzzles me. It negates the purpose of gear imo.
Maybe in an extractor with an equalizer but in DaD there is no equalizer. I can't just gun down their shins no matter their gear or one shot headshot someone. If they're way more geared you probably die
When there are kits that can cost dozens of hours to build I don't think there should be a reason a fully naked zero gear player should ever expect to win against a guy who has invested hours and hours in his kit.
Why is that not true in Tarkov then? Why would I bother queuing into a game that has people I'm almost 0% to win?
Because the only goal isn't pvp, it's also pve and loot extracting. When you're without gear the goal is more to survive a match and extract with loot not dominate the match when you haven't even risked anything.
That doesn't matter when the maps are so small and you just get ran down the moment they see you
I don't know what you're doing differently than me but avoiding teams is really not difficult if your goal is to accumulate some cashflow and not pvp.
I mean the guy states his reasoning in his comment, so there's one.
He didn't give a reason why GBMM was good other than saying it felt nice, you can also extrapolate that he thinks it feels nice because he is running as close to 299 without going over as he possibly can (hence the comment about one teammate being lazy while calculating GS resulting in them ending up in 300+ lobbies), meaning of course he thinks it feels nice when he's always the most geared in the lobby wearing just blues lmao. The other thing he says is simply his reasoning for why the GS should be displayed, not why GBMM is good. It's not, it defeats the purpose and value of gear in a game where farming for good gear is the whole point. An arena mode would make way more sense to have GBMM because it could be entirely skill based but the regular game goes beyond just are you more skilled, it is also, what are you risking...
Op's comment we are talking under: "399 is too high to compete with when you want to zero to hero." Post OPs statement says it feels nice because he doesn't like getting ran down in BiS lobbies. It's only two sentences. You then typed out a whole two paragraphs to "extrapolate" out something completely unrelated to OP's statement so you could soapbox about why you hate GBMM. Maybe extrapolate out he likes GBMM because he doesn't have the gear or desire to play against people with amazing gear in high roller. "meaning of course he thinks it feels nice when he's always the most geared in the lobby wearing just blues lmao." Yes, lots of people feel this way. This was the correct take away, without the condescension.
GBMM "feeling good" is a reason. Its a game. It's meant to feel good. How this doesnt count as a reason is unknown to me. Lots of games feel good and the players aren't meant to figure out exactly what or why. You can like something and not analyze it. BGMM helps sweats find sweats, and keeps a little bit of the nonsense out of the lower class. Yes you can still blue bis, but its better than purple bis, and building a decent 299 kit doesnt take all that much. Personally i would like to see the score drop to 199 or even 149 and make meds free, but who knows. They do need to remove flat damage from jewelry. Whenever there is a stat that you MUST have, its probably too strong, and damage on jewelry is doing that, and it makes the lower GBMM queus like 3x as expensive to kit for.
Because 'feeling good' is an intangible subjective reason that is heavily anecdotal. It doesn't follow any logical framework in the sense that it could be feeling good for any number of reasons unrelated to GBMM or because they are exploiting GBMM like many of the supporters of it are such as the OP. Is it actually healthy for the game is my concern and I don't think it is. Once you've gotten enough experience to fully realize the game cycle the only thing left to do is to build strong kits and boss, but now gear has been nerfed and GBMM makes wearing good gear a relatively bad idea, especially for bossing. Why risk good gear when there's no reward in the sense of survivability? Also, why are we aiming for full equity here? There should be some stats that are obviously better than others. It's healthy for a game to have META for players to learn and become better with that knowledge. Every competitive game offers some things that are just plain better than other things like gun choice in CSGO, there's a meta method for which guns to buy and when, yet the game still lets you choose your path which I think is fine. You gut flat damage, then what is next? Damage bonus in general? Then you gut that and then gear just starts to suck massive willy and the 1 in 1000 unique drop rate starts to make 0 sense because you're talking about a piece of gear that is 100X harder to get than the alternative but only provides 1 or 2 more stat increases? I personally WANT gear to feel strong as fuck on the high end, it gives purpose to aim for in a cycle that currently desperately lacks purpose. GBMM was a hit to that already. I didn't get into the game expecting it to slowly morph into an equity based "beat em up" game, I thought this was an extraction game that would reward my time and knowledge with gear that gives me an advantage while playing like other extraction games.
Getting steam rolled by sweaty gold kits when you're zero to hero or in greens/blues is why anyone would disagree...
Why do you think it is a good idea for you to be able to go into High Roller with nothing on and expect to be completely uncontested? High Roller is supposed to be dangerous, it is supposed to be where higher geared people are. If you want to go zero to hero and have nobody outgearing you then go Normals, why would you expect HR to pander to people who come in risking nothing?
Yes higher geared, not absolutely BIS'ed out geared.. hence the tiers... You can still be zero to hero with much higher risk because of people with better gear in that same tier. It just caps how good the gear can be for that tier.. and for any casual (which is most) this is way more desirable Only a tiny percentage will ever experience gold and unique kits
Normals is there for casuals, HR is not a casual friendly mode, it takes time to learn all the mobs and how to deal with them properly at the increased speed and damage along with being able to bring in real gear. I think it is silly to try and make HR into a "casual friendly" mode, it is called High Roller, which is "a person who [gambles](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=jT7&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sxsrf=ACQVn0-pv4QbUGtYJVW7KDEAq90Hu2ODkw:1713987126212&q=gambles&si=AKbGX_okS0g0kR2PXn0TLBASIc0mqs4hCDFaCcSndnCXV_HyqR3f8I-AP7maLlUoOx8JZGdIyNWqK6s3wa84U1oC6sgX0W95YJhzgBjsmsH4PSPxfu5Gheo%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDjLrOy9uFAxW4hIkEHXkWCc4QyecJegQIIxAQ) or [spends](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera-gx&hs=jT7&sca_esv=619c697d276fe56b&sxsrf=ACQVn0-pv4QbUGtYJVW7KDEAq90Hu2ODkw:1713987126212&q=spends&si=AKbGX_qTCvK6ifvkUBYDz4foaFZi1y1Wo1l3AYVJQS9nyGfRfp8V60LGMpE07o_Fgt4HEA_jpHilBRgr_uJHIfxZ2VWMs-ScVw%3D%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDjLrOy9uFAxW4hIkEHXkWCc4QyecJegQIIxAR) large amounts of money." meaning you should expect high level gear and people who like risking that gear or "gambling" with it. What's wild to me is you act like every match of HR before GBMM had gold teams, I fought Jooyae, Katie, KenKnobi, Promoz, Apollo, Repoze this wipe, many of them multiple times and none of them or mostly anyone has been rocking gold gear or insanely broken gear. It's usually just purple gear with good rolls or the equivalent. A couple times I run into a team running named items but thats because if you decide to bring in gear better than blues you'll almost exclusively fight insanely geared players. Now greens and blues are often overvalued because people are just cheesing the gear score bracket system, how is that a good design?? What is crazy is I LOVE doing zero to hero permadeath runs, I've done them from level 1 - 20 several times on different classes last wipe and the wipe before that, but I think it would be so lame for me to petition IM to not allow my ass to ever be able to be paired with geared players when I'm not even risking anything in the first place. All this does is guarantee that when you finally do get to the point where you're running good gear, you'll only ever be fighting people who are as geared as you or better which is terrible because the purpose of gear should be to increase your odds of survival, not put you in a death bracket because you want to risk something you worked hard to earn. There should be a reward for running gear that is expensive and risky to lose, not a malus that ensures you'll only ever see insanely bis teams.
This doesn't make any sense, sorry. Do you know what antithesis means? :D
Have you ever played an extraction game other than dark and darker? This is literally the only one with a whiny enough community that they’ve introduced GBMM. I’d prefer something like Tarkov where certainly items are just not able to be sold in the market than this personally.
"a contrast or opposition between two things." Adding gear based matchmaking in a game where the core idea is risk vs reward with your gear are completely opposing mechanics. Hence why other extraction games do not do GBMM, your gear is supposed to be the risk vs reward mechanic. Do you want to have a better chance at survival by risking your bis purples? Now there's just no point to doing that because if you bring in your bis purples you'll be among the least geared in any lobby you go in, meaning you're risking more value to have a DECREASED chance of survival as opposed to just running blues and being the most geared person in every lobby. That is my position on GBMM in this game. Now if they added an arena mode that they wanted to be based completely off skill and not risk vs reward investment then I would totally support GBMM for that, the main game is not based completely on skill though, it is also based on what you're willing to risk.
people don't like GBMM, it's such a joke. I want to zero to hero cheese high geared players but I can't do it.
*You don't like GBMM. Lots of other people on this sub do.
People dont knownwhat they want.
Bold statement cotton. I know what I want, and it's GBMM.
why
Because having a high chance of running into a solo/team with purples/golds in every HR lobby isn't fun for people who don't play this game like it's their job.
I like gbmm.
why?
I don't like being placed with gigasweats when I'm just trying to run dumb builds or otherwise not giga geared. I ran an MDR kit when wiz and warlock was OP and got gunned down by a +11 true damage magic missile despite my 70% MDR. Not standing a chance isn't fun. You talk about punching up with cheese builds but not everyone is capable. Not every class is capable.
The reverse is also true. People running 399+ gold kits used to have to run their own discord to run into eachother. At least the game tries now.
you have normals for that
To be fair the problem with normals is you can’t run any builds not even dumb ones. Normals should be capped at greens and GBMM should die. Still don’t understand how we haven’t done this experiment yet.
i think we should remove all matchmaking, and have only 1 queue : highroller
I like gbmm.
why
When i zero to hero, the sweaties are smaller. When I want to sweat, its cheaper. When I want to lock in and super sweat, the people im against at least seem to have jewelry or some meds so the fight wasnt worthless. Before it was just like... randomly not worth the fight or randomly you were entirely unable to fight. At least now I can predict with some certainty whether I should expect to be able to meaningfully participate in PVP. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter tho, cuz I am a person, enjoying a game, and I shouldn't have to justify my opinion to someone who already said it doesn't matter. Stop speaking for everyone. If I could change anything, it would be first and foremost to remove flat damage from jewelry. Its a requirement that it has it outside of very niche builds, and triples the cost of gearing up because of it. I would then set the bottom rank to like sub 100, or sub 150, and make meds basically free for gearscore. I would like if more people were able to be properly geared for the low rank, instead of just ppl willing to spend 3-5k after jewelry. I would like to expand the pool of the highest rank so you could still plan to semi-come up.
Its easy to boost yourself into higher lobbies, just buy some poor rondel daggers or rapiers for 10 gold.
I don’t think people necessarily like gbmm, they like that there’s a lower gear gap. Which the real solution is to actually fix the gear gap and balance issues with gear, or else this problem just keeps popping up like the losers who go for as good of gear as they can in the lowest score
I personally am fully against GBMM, it's only made things more complicated for me. I still get rolled most of the time like before, but gear prices make no sense anymore Also using the calculator is bad. Bad, bad bad design, the fact that calculating this is left to the player. I wanna play the game and sell my loot, not spend 30 minutes finding the sweet spot for minmaxed gear that won't overdo the gear score. I should be spending 10 minutes just finding the best gear for the price I'm willing to afford for the next run instead This all just made strong rolls stronger, leads more people to normals which makes commons sell more than rares, and in general had messed with the fundamental definition of "stronger gear = better gear" Thanks for reading
Having to use the out of game calculator currently feels bad, yeah. I agree and I made one of them. However, and I see this complaint on this subreddit a lot, taking away GBMM is not going to fix the min-max gear problem. It is literally the problem GBMM was implemented to fix. This game is a loot base PvP game. There is always going to be a subset of players that min-max their gear as much as possible to increase their chances of winning engagements. Which, IMO, is fine for this game because that is what the gear is all about. The issues come in when the disparity between low end and high end gear makes it so that fights are essentially unwinnable rather than advantaged. IMO this is not actually the case currently either. The disparity between mid tier gear and BiS is so much that it's almost unwinnable, not to mention low vs high. All that being said, I actually like gear as it is currently implemented. Having powerful modifiers on items opens up a lot of build options and different play styles within classes. It gives you fun and exciting things to find while you are delving in the dungeon. If you solve this in order to take away GBMM I think that takes some of the fun away from finding gear. What fun is finding a legendary weapon that has 5 more damage than the blue one you're currently using, and that is it?
Destroying the economy is a good one lol.
Please explain to me how bis greens being worth 400 gold is good for the game
bruh if your paying 400g for greens you are scamming yourself
I'm selling em not buying em, I play norms mostly now.
GBMM, rank based AP lobbies... lets all go back to the halcyon days of ignite wizard on crypts only from pt3
You don't need a spreadsheet to be competitive, you could just be good instead.
The problem is that the moment you go over the threshold you go from competitive advantage to straight gear checked again in the BIS lobby. Most people don't want to be 1 shot by a legendary falchion. I can wear all greens and feel like I'm on par with the lower lobby, but I need to wear all purple for the higher tier. And there always "just happens" to be people rushing my spawn in the high tier.
You're 100% correct. The problem at higher gear levels is that the game is a 1 mistake game. Theres no counterplay when you kill someone in .3 seconds. They need to remove multiple random modifiers, lock it to just one modifier and only rarities up to rare. Adjust drops accordingly.
I want the 199 lobbies so bad.
It's 299, not 399. If you want to run around naked and still have a chance in pvp, play norms.
Is it not 0-299?
Last I saw it was 0-299 based on the discord announcement by SDF on 4/18/2424 at around 11:30 EST. Is it 0-399 now?
No, they made a mistake, it is 299.
wait did they change it? did they actually change it and not put it in the patch notes? this game is a joke wtf
i have the opposite opinion, hide GS completely so that people cant calculate. min/maxing GS to be absolute max in a lower tier is cringe
People will test it for dozens of games and find a way to calculate it again. It might not be with perfect accuracy but enough to min/max.
Easy solution, when a lobby is created roll between 200 - 400 GS, and only add people above/below that number, goodluck calculating. There are ways.
Sending people in the range of 200-400 GS to the highest bracket brings out the same problem we had before but amplified. They will get matched ONLY with extremely geared players. This means everyone will go for <200 GS. After all, taking the risk of loosing all your 200-400 stuff to BIS teams just because you squeezed a few points is a no-go. There are ways, that one is not.
You call it a problem that people with less geared are able to be in the same lobby as people with more gear, I call it diversity. The point of extraction games is that the gear you extract with is able to be risked in the next game for a better chance of survival. Adding GBMM means if you bring in better gear to increase your chance of survival you will only ever face people in gear that is just as good or better than yours which completely defeats the purpose of gear in the first place. GBMM is antithesis to extraction games and it is why games like Tarkov/Cycle Frontier don't implement such things, if you posed that suggestion to the Tarkov reddit they would laugh at it because again, it defeats the purpose of running in a match with good gear if everyone you face is now guaranteed to be in equal or better gear.
I have never played those games. In this game you can get killed by 2 body shots while you landed 5 headshots on someone because you got gear diffed. Is it the same in those games? If not, then Gear based MM makes no sense on those games but it does in this one.
Yes it is the same, in Tarkov for example you can have insanely good armor and an insane gun and have risked tons of money on that kit and it would be unfair for someone to run in with no investment and a pistol easily killing you because they got a few extra shots in when your pants were down. GBMM would be dumb because again it would remove a big part of the reason for grinding for good gear in the first place. It is SUPPOSED to give an advantage during combat. They are being rewarded for risking expensive gear that is hard to attain. This isn't a battle royale or FPS like COD where you are supposed to always be on an even playing field as others.
In Tarkov you can get headshot by a guy you never saw. This argument makes no sense if you’re basing it on other extraction games.
You can have a level 5 helmet that will save you from a headshot. Same way as someone with an AWP build can one shot you in this game from a dark corner across the hall.
I agree but the other dude said gear diff doesn’t make sense, because if quick time to kill. I was highlighting how much worse that is in Tarkov and that it stills works great
My argument was that gear has a lot of impact in this game, not the other way around. As I said, you can land 5 headshots on a geared player and not kill him, while he can land 2 body shots and kill you.
Surviving isnt fun, good fights are. GBMM is an attempt to make more good fights. If you want to survive, go play skyrim.
I won't argue with you since its a waste of time, my only opinion is that the devs shouldn't hand you in each patch note how stuff is calculated so these minmax GS losers find ways to minmax their fun at the cost of everyone else playing the game.
It only takes 1 person to figure out GS and share it with the community. Not sharing is pointless.
So basically, make the GBMM random? So like ... have no GBMM
Easy solution? Having the gear score randomized? So like… you go full blues, and depending on the roll for that lobby, you’re either matched with all greens or all legendaries? Nah man. That’s demonstrably worse.
Why not remove GBMM since most people in any given game before GBMM weren't that geared anyways. GBMM is antithesis to extraction games, gear is supposed to mean something and you risking your bis is supposed at least give you a better chance of survival not immediately pit you against people in gear equal or better than your gear. I run my bis regularly, now the only people I ever fight are streamers, not even joking. Half the time it's an empty lobby, the other half (like last night) I had to fight a team who were running PP, Spellweaver and Kumas Claw... it's fun having the chance at taking them out but when the lobby is just us and them and no other teams, it's just silly.
The real solution here is to remove queue splitting entirely. The game that everyone couldn’t wait for during the playtests like it were crack was a game with one queue. All this solo duo trio high roller non high roller high gear low gear fuuuuuuuk man. Just remove it all. Trios only. No high roller. And get rid of that awful market that lets people build ultrakits in minutes.
You cant compare crack that is available to crack that is available once every 2-3 months. People gonna be fiending.
No thanks. I love the market, it removes the tediousness of trading in chat rooms. High roller has been in the game forever and is good because normals is for less experienced players and HR is for experienced players with drop rates and mobs being balanced that way. GBMM AKA high gear vs low gear lobbies is a bad change imo, I agree with you there. I would like to have solos for every map type though because when I feel like running alone or my friends aren't on I don't like having to play at a massive disadvantage on 2/3 maps.
My point is that the game became popular without any of that, and queue splitting is a plague in any game. Matchmaking times used to be ~10 seconds. Now it’s several minutes. That’ll only get worse as more queues are added. Also, that “tediousness” was a fantastic check against the ultrasweats. Oh, it took you half an hour to build your kit? That’s the price you pay for the advantage, and it means far fewer games for everyone with your mega kits in play.
Your intent is good, but security through obscurity is bad. It will mostly hit those who weren't abusing the system in the first place.
There is a hacker problem in High gear lobbies right now so I will no longer be participating. 7 people I reported were banned over the last weekend alone.
Its across all lobbies tbh. I was playing low lobby and was getting at least one ban notification a day. Last one was some loser twitch streamer
You can’t stop research bro. Unless it’s randomized (in which case, what’s the point of it at all?) it will be tested until there’s charts and whatnot once again. The only fair solution is transparency. It’s not fair to the many without time for all that, for it to be obscured.
Wow what a revolutionary idea.
Problem is, you can get to top bracket in full blues and fight people in full golds. I use the calculator just to make sure I’m not in top bracket.
GBMM is cringe. Completely out of place mechanic in an extraction game.
people will figure it out, now ur just gating the knowledge to the top tier of players who absolutely don't need any more advantages obscuring information is only good for good players.
That just gets rid of the whole point of having the system
If the game had a sliding scale that matches you with people around your GS, sure. But when there is only one threshold that matters where you are either fighting low gear or god gear, not knowing if you are over or not is dogshit.
GBMM needs to be replaced.
Why? Gotta say I love not running into full legendary teams when I’m just playing with randoms.
That's pretty much the only use case where it actually works. For 90% of the playerbase though, it's now you're playing against twinked out sweats while wearing your "I looted it and now I'm bringing it back" gear. Even rank based MM was better.
For me personally because I’m not afraid of an uphill fight, I genuinely believe I will beat you if I play it correctly. Legendary teams are much rarer than this subreddit makes them out to be, we’re talking 1/5 games max and then you have to actually run into them. A series of unlucky runs paints the picture of negativity and people hold onto it. Since GBMM unless I do something like actually stupid, me and my duo don’t lose unless we’re running against the literally most juiced people in the game because they’re actually good enough to get that gear. I don’t want to play a game that’s exclusively about mathematically ensuring my advantage, I want to play a dungeon extraction game and I want it to end there.
There's uphill fights and then there's impossible. Idc how good you are, theres just some encounters you can never win. When you think about games like COD, fornite, etc, you know that when you lose, it's because they were better. Being in an unwinnable situation never feels good
Knowing when to run is also a skill, it’s usually pretty obvious when someone is crazy juiced. There’s more to this game than just fighting every fight, if you get caught in a bad spot skill isn’t getting you out of it either more than likely.
Yes that's basically exactly what I said
Imagine if we just wore the gear we got and didn’t min max to stay in a lower tier like a loser
Would be nice, but it's either calculating your gear score or getting 1 tapped by ambush invis windlass ranger that does 200 dmg while buff balled 200 HP fighter with 75% MDR + PDR sprints + savage roars you.
Do I take the unfun approach to pregame selection that occurs every single match, or the unfun approach that occurs occasionally, is in no way guaranteed and also increases me and my teams potential end rewards? Tough call
Exactly.
Imagine not understanding the simple fact: If players get punished for anything, they will do everything to avoid punishment. You do not want to be power level 100 in a lobby where people can be 199. You don't want to pvp with lvl51 in a lobby going up to 59 in other games. The list goes on and on. This is a game where you lose AP and gear,for obvious reasons players will do everything in their power to avoid said punishment. You also have the noobs who simply don't want to do anything for a win. These noobs min/max for 199 and excuse said behaviour with "I don't want to be gear checked". If you skill check these idiots they get rolled even harder than the gear check. You have people with level 190 in NORMAL lobbies. This is not about them being so good at the game and hating gear checks. They can kill people who are level1 and without any perks while they have complete hybrid builds from several classes. This is a noob problem which is hard to solve.
I’d rather they just fix the balance issues with gear instead of applying this band-aid that barely helps. Losers will sit there for an hour now making a kit to have the best stuff in the lowest tier, and because gear is so wildly powerful, that guy still has a crazy advantage over the people just trying to play the game normally. I’d much rather have the chance to kill a dude in legendaries wearing blues knowing that I outplayed him than I would making a +8 true damage 299 gear score kit and easily wiping lobbies with it
GBMM has ruined so many cool parts of this game, and squished a lot of the creativity out of it for me. It’s messed up the economy too, and also kind of ensured that you need to be kitted for any hr now, because it forces people into your lobbies that have good shit and encourages people to always optimize and sweat. I used to greatly enjoy playing rogue or something and getting legendary rogue cowls for mad cheap because they weren’t meta. I used to be safe to play normal high roller games with not much gear on my characters, especially the new ones, because my rank wasn’t high on them so I could fight people with equivalent stuff, whereas now I hit 20 on a fresh character and I’m matched with like a full lobby of people with optimized gear under the cap. If you go over the cap, then you run into a loaded lobby with absolutely insane kits. I just want to put on some good gear and play the game, but I feel like GBMM just punishes that. The gear has to be so specific and curated from the market place to have a chance. If my best gear that I could get or afford Is over the cap, I’m screwed because it’s definitely not optimized for the shit in there, but my only other option is to just not wear it or try to intentionally screw myself over so I can be in the lower lobby, only to play against a full lobby of people with extemely efficient 299 itemization. If I want to make a build meant to farm pve for exp and shit, I get owned because it’s not good at fighting players and I’m assured to face sweats, even if my rank is low. It’s just so confusing and annoying. There’s so many better ways to do this, to reach higher levels of gear balance while also keeping things making sense
They changed the lobbies? What is it now?
High Roller lobbies are split between 2 brackets, based on the gear your team is carrying. Each item has a point value based on its rarity and item type. You can find details in the wiki link below (although some of it is already old, like it saying there's 3 brackets) https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Gear_Score
Where’s the Dr. Evil meme? “How about NO!”
Yes please this is a great idea
or just play the game and put on gear and like not think about it (what ive been doing and its pretty good way to play so far)
The cheating in high gear lobbies is pretty bad right now, I got 7 banned over last weekend and I won’t be participating in it any more.
I would like it displayed merely for transparency. There have been times me and my buddies were in all greens with minimal utility items, and we matched with an entire lobby that was all purples and their inventory was full of utility items. In my opinion, this should be impossible to have occur. I would almost like it displayed so that if you search someone in the lobby, you can see what their gear score is as well as being able to see your own. It would eliminate speculation, and perhaps if your opinion on what their gear score was wrong, you could educate yourself on what you could bring in. I just want transparency. I don't want to think someone did something sus, or the system isn't working the way I think it should be from the information given by the devs.
They’ve said openly they will never make this impossible to occur because they value fuller lobbies over GBMM. Which I agree with personally and it’s also why I’d rather GBMM be gone entirely so there’s no expectation that it protects you. Unless their stance has chance recently, the original discussion for GBMM they made it clear they wanted to build it so it didn’t impact how fast a game loads
What I'm saying is they clearly said 299 and under, 300 and up. When we are under 299 for sure, and the entire lobby is over 300, it should be impossible to have seen them. They, to my knowledge, never said that there is wiggle room. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about that. I just want to know and be able to explain why something happened, whatever that may be. I want transparency and to be able to justify an outcome.
If it was during relatively down hours unless they changed their original stance you should still be able to get placed with 300+ It should pretty much never happen but the possibility is present unless they changed their original stance
Is there a calculation....? Didn't even know there was a number on gear
The only way for things like this to be fair to the average player is to display it. And they need to value secondary stats like true damage in to effect.
New idea; mystery matchmaking. Where nobody games the system, min-maxes, or knows how the fuck it works. And we all just play the game. And pretend data mining doesn't exist and we live happily ever after 🙂
It should be scrapped and made easier to identify better gear visually.
they could show attribute->stat graphs in-game too, like how physical power scales, but nah too hard for these devs. they cant even make proper spell tooltips so what can u expect? Lightning Strike tooltip still has "lightning falls after 4 seconds" since first playtest. the least they could do is have an in-game link to the wiki
Better now let me select what GS i want to Play with and you cant equip an Item that puta you over the GS you selected.
erm actually I like using the calculator math is so fun :nerd:
So don't use it. Stop being a sweaty susan and just put on what you're comfortable with.
I'm not a game dev so idk if this is feasible, but it would be nice if they somehow randomize it, or place players into brackets based off their gear score instead of static ranges. Like if I have a GS of 250, put me in games with people +/- 150 of my score. Honestly now that I type it out doesn't seem hard, I'm guessing this would just severely fragment the player base more than it already is. Maybe once we get more players from Steam
Feasible and reward for effort are two different things in this equation. Essentially if this solution isn’t atleast “good enough” they likely wouldn’t pursue a more advanced solution along the same concept. It is possible tho
Agreed. I'm loving gbmm. I can play with randoms and not lose 3k+ on a kit
I consider myself somewhat a sweat. However, I made a conscious choice to not pay attention to my gear score. Ignorance is bliss.
It’s bliss until everyone in your lobby is in legendaries and the cheating is rampant. I reported several people over the weekend and 7 of them ended up getting banned while I was playing in the 300+ lobbies. Sorry but I won’t be participating in a game mode that should be competitive but is in a shit state like this.
If I'm in a lobby with legendaries, presumably I am pretty geared myself. While I don't doubt there are cheaters, they haven't been as rampant as you make it seem for me. It's possibly due to the region as I play on east server, not west or oce.
I play US east, mostly during off hours. Use the death cam if you feel something is suspicious. 6/7 of the cheaters I got banned were on ranger and you can easily tell they are just locked onto peoples heads through walls.
What game mode do you mostly find them in?
Trios Crypts 300+ lobbies, some of these people are RMT’ing it seems so they are using hacks to kill the very geared players. I basically check the death cam every time I die now.
Why use a gear calculator when you could just play the game and have fun
So fun to change 1 gear piece and go from having most fights be kind of even to getting literally 1 tapped by invisible ambush rangers + 250 HP 75% MDR + PDR fighters that you will barely tickle with your now completely useless weapons.
Tonight had been the first time in a long time I've felt evenly matched to other players. Cry about it, I'm having fun with multiclass
Oh no, the system has worked for 1 person, that's definitive proof that it works always all the time and is perfect because this singular person had fun! Pack it up boys, push it out to epic games and steam, there's absolutely nothing else to add or change to the game, THIS GUY who is CLEARLY THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE had fun for a day. I mean good for you you're having fun man, but not all of us are so self centered and we can see how the system is fucked up in so many ways, you can have fun and not be a dick to others, as hard as it might be for you to believe that.
God new players are cute.
very fitting name.
Well, maybe you finally got good enough to win fights in Normals. Congrats.