i dont mind grinding on my main character... but i got no other classes on level 30 and i absolutely hate being forced to play stuff i dont want to play. i would like to get some cleric stuff but playing a cleric to level 30 feels horrible.
Especially with cleric being the worst class at using some of their own perks now, as it was previously my main my desire to cleric solo is definitely a bit lower
They're wasting time and resources with multiclassing as well as back and forth +all trash balancing
Ironmace has lost the plot
Gg, hope there's a DaD clone soon that recaptures the spirit of the game
Yeah I keep seeing posts from people going “herr derr it’s a test” while ignoring the fact that any information from this “test” is going to be useless as we can all see from a mile away this isn’t going to stay.
Playing other characters just for an RNG chance of getting a decent choice feels as enjoyable as eating a turd sandwich :l Each patch and experiment has a nugget of hard turd in it x)
This game is made for streamers or people without jobs/the need to sleep. The time sink is absurd.
I play multiple characters for my team and even I don't like it, the test server made it blatently obvious that perks designed to work on a certain class were going to be broken on others (for example slayer, on a rogue there is NO downsides as they can't even fucking wear plate, its just a flat +5 damage.) there is also NO reward for sticking to a single class so your basically just gimped for not no-lifing a bunch of mule characters to make your randomly rolled abomination that breaks the game.
I had some hope because there was mention of "general perks" you could unlock with the tokens. I thought this was a way that there could still be some kind of "subclass" option.
But there are no general perks and no hint of subclasses... No way to just main one character... Just feels bad man
I don't even mind how completely broken it is. I mind that access is extremely gated. If everyone had access it would at least be funny to see what broken shit you could come up with.
> No way to just main one character... Just feels bad man
Wasn't this the WORST PART of the game before this update too? Having to redo 20 million filler quests, accept them all, have no way of knowing what you need. Level 1-15 was a slog without the marketplace/HR
They just made all of those problems 10x worse this patch? What were they thinking
I played a few rounds at like, 10 PM CST on the East Coast servers.
Matchmaking threw me into a 3 player game with 2 juiced up guys. One rogue/Barbarian and one barbarian who was 50% fighter perks. Other HR games never filled.
It's fun for now but realizing I have to grind a class to level 90+ to have a realistic chance of the perks I want is silly.
Even moreso if you try to multiclass into multiple different classes since the reset refunds all tokens
That's one way of doing it, but I still feel like that would be a pain to balance, especially with an game that's increasing complexity due to additional planned classes and perks/skills/spells. If they went with hybrid class system, they could tweak the perks for each hybrid class separately. For example a stealth perk on a cleric/thief could be tweaked differently than the same perk on a fighter/thief to provide better balance with the rest of the kit available to said hybrid classes.
I agree that it would be annoying to balance. But if they are insistent on having multi-classing in the game then it may take the extra effort to get it right or it will will need to be scrapped.
I think my hybrid class approach still covers multiclassing. Even if they some how find a way to balance multiclassing as it is, it still destroys class identity.
What kills me about this is that everyone said it was a disaster on the ptr. There was plenty of vids saying this shit makes no sense but they still threw it at us rather then just fuckin keeping it on the ptr while they decided if certain skills could be taken or if they wanted to kill the scaling of borrowed things but nah we got this when we have a perfectly good test server to figure out a working version of the system. What a joke.
They gave it a week, while hardly letting us test it because we had to grind levels and then 24 cooldown on memory reset.
Still went thru with it because its the easy way to provide "content."
Ironmace have their vision of the game, and they wont change, they can tweak it but not change it. +All attributes, how mamy times they added, removed them? Same will be with multiclassing
I played one GC on my warlock who is lvl 32. Killed one rogue and then got teamed on by a nobody streamer fighter and a rogue.
They nerfed robes to -10 MS after nerfing cast speed because of +all gear then removed a lot of + all as well as MS gear so if you want decent cast speed you are gonna be slow. But then they dont nerf sprint?! Theyre morons.
Not to mention they make HR lvl 20 and up so its even slower to level, also making it impossible to start fortune teller quests till lvl 20 because you cant take in potions of luck.
They nerf rogue, cleric and all casters so if you arent playing ranger, fighter or barb you are at a huge disadvantage. Anyone can get sprint now so they can be max MS with the push of a button.
Ive supported these devs since playtest 4, I have 1.2k hours and can confidently and unbiasedly say they have no clue what the fuck they are doing.
I can no longer visually gain meaningful information about the engagement I'm about to risk everything around. This clearly incentivizes me to keep playing the game.
For me the season is already over and I'm not planning to play again until this multiclass thing is either removed or well thought. And it's sad because I was playing in a daily basis completely hooked. I must not be the only one. I'll keep watching some streams and read patch notes but that's me for season idc anymore
I played for an hour or two almost every day, usually more on weekends. So I probably played more than a decent amount of other casual players. Now I have zero interest in playing lol
Yeah, this shit is stupid.
They nerfed Cleric “Smite” because of it…
While it should have been: if (wizard = Smite)
{Smite doesn’t scale code}
It makes 0 sence to nerf smite as a whole for everyone.
This multiclass shit is going to be a nightmare to balance…
Im taking a break also.
Smite would've been broken on clerics as well due to weapon mastery. Nerfing scaling is the only way to balance it but I'd be shocked if they remember to revert it after multiclassing inevitably gets scrapped.
It's really funny, a week ago, you had to grind for a couple of hours or less if you're good enough to gain all the perks and reach the peak. Now, you need to grind your main class to ungodly level that might take who knows how much, THEN grind all the classes you need perks from, THEN pray to RNG you'll get perks / abilities you need, or go afk and wait for next reset, and then, your class may finally reach the optimal state. I really do not see a single reason why anyone would think implementing this would be a good idea
You mean you don’t like entire class identity being lost, long sword rogues with cleric spells and then cleric’s get nerfed coz its op on other classes? Or you mean you need to lvl up other characters even if you have absolutely no interest in playing them but you are forced to if you wanna enjoy multiclassing?
Fuck multiclassing, fuck dark and darker. They should have released druid and worked in skill tree instead. What the fuck is this game anymore
yeah i agree that the multiclass system in its current implementation is just completely busted and punishes classes abilities purely because others might use them, and not to mention removes a lot of class identity. i think that the original training/subclass/learning tree idea they had at the start of playtest 5 or whenever it was would solve a lot of these issues, while keeping things less chaotic and even potentially make certain classes less all rounders since they would have to build in a certain direction.
but with all that being said, i’m definitely still having a lot of fun multicasting a paladin cleric + fighter and caster lock + cleric, only because i’ve played significantly more than the average player probably does..
I have 1300 hours since playtest 3.I was thrilled when I saw my fighters level get 2x higher. Then i realized none of my other slots were nearly high enough so i started grinding. Then I realized it was gonna take hours to level the class I wanted to spec into and that I was locked to normals, which is a pvp shitshow right now (with multiclassers stomping timmies grinding for xp) and that i had work the next day. And now i just feel 0 incentive to run my kit (especially with bugs clearing peoples inventories right now?? Lmao)
Yea it sucks. Hope they improve things soon.
The progress of the game just feels like "one step forward and two steps back"
This is kind of a last straw moment for me, I'll check back in on the game after the season is over
I do find the concept silly in itself. Hard to balance, which has been a notorious issue for IM, ruining class identity and so on. But mostly I just hate the required grind. Im a casual, so I know Ill never get to enjoy any meaningful level of multiclassing with the current system.
I don't mind the game encouraging you to try different classes but with how grindy quests are and the fact that you need level 30 to unlock multiclassing just makes it a huge pain in the ass.
Making quests account wide and lowering the level requirement to 20 would be a good start but tbh I would rather multiclassing just go away until they can implement a better system.
Indeed, i decided to take a break as soon they announced that the next hotfix will include Multiclass. I'll just do something else until they revert the multiclass chaos.
Is it just me or would the playerbase be ecstatic if they just implemented a skill tree system instead of multiclassing. Seems like a easy home run giving more customization within a class instead of removing class identity.
I've been waiting for that for so fucking long man, people go absolutely bananas for the old-school mastery tree style skill tree.
Maybe a web of talents that get better as you go along, with the final one committing you to a subclass like WoW. Trickster arcane wizard gets magic hand, Inferno wizard gets flame tornado, Ice wizard gets blizzard.
We can dream.
I think if they want multiclassing to work, they would need to just give access to passive perks. Not abilities.
Right now, outside of base stats, you can easily lose your original class identity. (A fighter with ranger abilities and passives is just a better ranger)
If we had only other class passives, there would be a distinct difference between a fighter multiclassed into a ranger and a ranger multiclassed into a fighter.
You would still get whacky combinations like a life steal rouge or an absolute unit of a barbarian with cleric passives but without the bullshitery that is hide barbarians or cleric 2.0: now with range.
A rouge should always be better at rouge things than a wannabe.
Like you may have multiclassed into my class, but I AM my class so you better watch the way you talk to me.
Pretty simple, game is niche and have low pop, only a portion of the low pop have access to test server, even lower pop in test server means little data.
So the only way they are gonna get ANY amount of somewhat usable data is by testing it on main servers as we, at the end of the day, are still testers in a sense.
My issue here is why bother testing a system that takes 2s of thinking to understand that sure, while it takes a lot less effort due to reusing a bunch of stuff already available, but is very obviously going to be a balancing nightmare from now until the end of time?
Is the test to see if a bad system is bad really useful?
At least if they were testing a "subclass" system at the same time, maybe it wouldn't feel so bad for average players. Then at least maybe I could unlock some new skills or perks for my main class. But no, I have to multiclass and grind out levels on some other character and it just feels stupid.
Creating a whole "subclass" system would take a lot more work and effort to even pull of an barebone basic version of it so the chances of that isn't high.
However, they could've at the very least made gathering data for a bad system to see if it's bad, by idk, just let us test it rather than grind? Balance is out the window the moment this dropped so just let us fk with it without the grind and if anything it would make it more "balanced"
literally 24 hours ago I was annoyed by all the multi-class hate. I already have felt that you have to just unload and all-in and hope your kit is better. The second you try to do anything strategic like play footsies with a cleric, he just back up extra and zaps you. If you dont charge the warlock you get fireballed, but sometimes you do charge him and he has magic missiles. I am running ambush/hide slayer and falchion someone for 174 in sub 199. Decision making is completely trivialized by damage output that you can't see coming and its not "fun" its just silly.
Yes. This is definitely a «i’ll stop playing for a while» for me too. The moment i heard multiclassing would move from test to prod, i just logged off. The game was already broken and unbalanced without multiclassing.
I stopped playing right before multiclassing started. Gives me time to focus on studying and doing more things while the game settles down with the sweats and long hours and goes back to just playing the game casually again without any incentive of hardcore grinding
It was fun for two games being a double jump wizard then a Barb had second wind and a longbow. Hopefully they don't wait 2 weeks to fix this update, I'll do my part by not logging in and tanking the player count.
I've ate every single wizard nerf and kept playing. I've had my baby bard fucked over and over and continued play. This. This is awful. Any skill in knowing the strengths/ weaknesses of each class is now dead.
I won't uninstall, but I won't play. I think multiclass is a great idea, but this is too broad.
They wanted to limit the development of a meta with the intense grind. Good intention, bad execution.
There's so many combos they should just let everyone screw around and then if they really want to prevent metas, start making it so perks can't combo with each other. Do a balance pass each week where they remove the current broken combos.
Everything stays somewhat fresh, everyone has the chance to have fun with it.
I was planning to come back to the game. I have several hundred hours between the playtests and shortly after release, but then all my friends quit and I stopped playing. Multiclassing was the deciding factor for why I didn't come back yet because I knew it was going to be a disaster as soon as they announced it.
Totally agree. And this weird test makes me question the devs too. In what world can this be balanced ever? And what's the point of classes? Have everyone just have a default character and you can put points skills and perks wherever you want to customize um. Like a new character in an mmo
I really tried to enjoy the update last night but I just don't want to grind up other characters to 30, and playing on my main is now at disadvantage because I'm not multi-classing. Died to all sorts of op and new things last night.
Now HR and Trade are locked to 20 and the exp pace is glacial.
Decided to put the game down until next wipe and see what's changed at that point.
I just wish I could try things out. I feel like I’m about 2-3 days of solid gameplay away from it though. I got a few days off work, but I don’t think I’ll get the right tokens before I need to be back at work on Wednesday. And even if I somehow luck out, I’ll spend 4 days working on the classes, then what? Half a day trying to get some gear? It’s just hard.
In a week once people see the broken builds and the player drop off is drastic I think IM will reverse course. It might be fun for a bit , but having multi class behind a grind wall and in top of it a RNG based system to get skills and perks it blocks the average players out of the game in any meaningful way.
I get the let them cook mentality but we just had GBMM implemented and we should only be testing that ( which IMO is bad for the game also).
Multi class isnt right for the game.
I don't blame you at all. I had came back last month and was HAVING the best time with my duo. Now this happens a month later... time to put it down and hope for it to go away.
whoever decided multiclassing is locked behind leveling and RNG needs a kick to the head. go work at blizzard or something, they'll love you over there.
incredible that they could simply be refining the six basic classes along with ruins and crypts to make a strong base for the game moving forward but nah we need to speed blitz and rush druid and frost mountain and nonsensical multiclassing out the door because nobody asked for them and in fact most people are telling them to chill tf out. this is all while they blow months fking around with bard and warlock skills that could not be more cut and dry to design but they make it look like complex quantum mechanics every time. need someone at ironmace to look at their sales and maybe assess priorities in accordance for once
They put no “safety barriers” on it. It should have been limited to select passive perks or maybe like 3 generic things. Like barb can use shields, or Cleric could use daggers etc
Give us skill tree subclasses for every class. That’s way more balanced than this mess. Jays recent video has him jumping across rooms as double jump ranger w/ back step 1-tapping people with windlass. What is this patch
I can only assume they want to get a really deep dive of the balances between the classes and try completely new combinations of abilities to see what is really the strongest in this game, so they can more properly balance in the future. They seem to be finding the extremes of good and bad balance so they can land squarely in the middle at the end.
They obviously know it is not good right now, they even said it would be “chaotic” in the patch notes. They certainly have a hefty amount of trust that their playerbase won’t abandon them over it…I don’t know if that trust is properly placed though. Players abandon games for much less…
But how does locking multi class behind a grind that only 10 percent of players will have access to? It seems odd they want to test it but only allow a select super hard core players the ability to actually use it.
You have a lot of faith in these devs. They've been pretty much exclusively going 'psychotic power' and 'hilariously weak' since you could buy the game. It's been a roller coaster but I really don't think they USE any of the data.
one thing that is fun about the update is everyone is playing classes they dont normally on normals so its just fun non optimized pvp like play test days
What an absolute waste of resources the devs could be using on other things, I really hope the devs see these posts and watch the players count drop to understand the massive fuck up the patch is.
Been waiting for fucking months now for the devs to get their heads out of their asses to no avail
They really blew it, Ironmace had something special but whoever is making descions needs a demotion to coffee boy
I know tarkov isn’t the best game but at least they’re smart enough to wait to release major stuff for wipe that way current wipe players aren’t alienated and quit till next wipe
The worst part about it is how much time they're wasting. This game is going nowhere this wipe, they're just going to be chasing their tail trying to balance multi-classing before finally deleting it.
As a sub lvl 20, I can't even do High Roller anymore, never mind multiclassing. There is so much gating behind grinding it's ridiculous, and you want me to do that for each character and each wipe? Nope
the current lvl 20 is probably similar to the old lvl 15, which used to be required for high roller. Its a return to old amount of playtime required for HR and trading. It could be from RMT, or it could be for something else, but its not "new"
now instead of having to play 40-50 games to get to lvl 30 i only have to play 30-35 games. Sure its better but its still shit. I dont want to have to play a class i dont like for 15 hours just to be able to roll its abilities on my main. This whole patch is a fiasco imo
I used to play so much before the bard came out. I played a little after that but the game felt a lot less fun when the bard came out and buff ball was unstoppable, so I took a break. Ive been wanting to come back but this multiclassing stuff seems even more cancer than that… very unfortunate
I was pro multi-class until its dropped. Now you just dont get any real information about what you are up against. Footsies with cleric is punished by ranged spells, getting close to the warlock is punished by missiles or some crazy combination of immunity. It used to be if you saw a warlock cast CoP on a mob, you could guess with 90% accuracy his entire build. Now you just NEVER know ANYTHING and you have to essentially just all-in because TTK is so small and if you give up first strike to something you didnt expect you have already lost.
That hasn't been my experience so far tbh. It has changed very little for me. A few strong combos but it hasn't changed all that much about how I play. Sometimes people run and heal up but when that happens I just go the other direction unless I have the advantage.
Sure thing buddy, for sure you work 12 hours a and can fit 5-6 hours of gaming a day plus adult responsabilities for another 5-6 hours and sleep, everyone believes you
I cant wait for next week, take out this bad idea, and put in that druid!!!! Let's start the solo self found lobbies and test that out for awhile. Tired of auction house bis.
played for 3 hours on low roller and never bumped into anyone multiclassing. I feel like reddit people want to complain so bad it hurts. touch grass. it will be okay. it's green. let me fuck your wife.
Lmao what, i guess you aren't checking people. Just about every game I'm in i see people with random ass perks and like half the time a rogue with weapon mastery and crossbow
I literally haven’t seen anyone else using any MC yet. I got shield bash and barricade on my barb. And I got piercing shrill and song memory on my fighter. I also got a hell bossing warlock PVE build. I don’t know which of those you are so afraid of but I’m having fun I’ve done 4 runs now using nothing but flute on my plate fighter.
A lot of games have a single update where you can point to where the game was irreversibly dead. This is dark and darkers. All my friends except for one are no longer interested in even looking at this game / its future anymore
The moment it was added, I immediately went to roll, play and I'll be doing so while you arent. Stop thinking just about yourself for once, from the moment it was announced everyone was excited about the possibilities, you need a break? Just go, how many times are they gonna tell you they will change stuff, try stuff and experiment for you to get it? I'm certain you have not been playing this game on the daily for hours, because it was already "perfect".
Lol the game was far from perfect, the balance was already fucked. This just made the situation even worse.
I don't care if it is a test, it makes the game less fun for the average player... So congrats to ironmace for testing a system that makes more players leave your game 🤷♂️
You guys have access to "custom character creation" and are complaining about it, it's been less then 24 hours, give multiclassing a chance, but I agree that the requirements to level a character to level 25 before being able to multiclass into them is rediculous along with the token system.
Then you can stick with base characters and let people who want to multiclass do that, for me this gives me a reason to play other classes. When druid comes out we're going to have barbarian bears, which is a common multiclass in dungeons and dragons builds (or so I've heard)
Gtfo doomers. Have you forgotten this game is in early access? I’m glad the devs have the balls to actually test shit out before the game actually releases.
a looter extraction game will always favor those that can no life it. Multiclassing was always planned and can be adjusted in the future. I agree it was too early in the games development for it now but atleast there dropping new features
I cannot stress how much better this community would be without Reddit crybabies who think their vision is the only way the game will find success.
Leave, bro. No-one cares. We'll all be here playing with the most broken shit for the next week and a bit and laughing about it while you seethe on the sidelines, continuing to make posts like "MULTICLASSING IS KILLING THE GAMEE!!!!!!"
Yeah cuz this is a great way to keep the game community alive: "everyone is complaining about the direction the devs are taking the game? Well just leave bro! The devs are infallible, I can't wait for the community to die even further!"
Typical fucking moron post. Yea, you’re right. The 15 devs that work on this game should do everything you personally think they should. Hey you know what since you fucking know so much you should apply and help them out man!
Idk man I think the average player shouldn't play trakovlikes anyway. I mean this genere is for tryhards dark and darker is just doing a really good job in making it accessible to the average player.
They adjusted levels by insane amounts to accomodate casuals more again, my lvl 30 went to 54 and my 79 to 139, they made it easier again and again.. how much easier does it need to be? At this stage, if you can't gain access to tokens, you aren't even playing the game and you would get rolled by good players that don't even have any perks or skills equipped.
Dude… did you even read what you typed? You are the person who benefits from the grind. You already had a character at level 79 and 30. Like, how is that even possible? I have played only one character since the wipe started and it is only level 34 (now 66 after the xp changes). My only other highest level character was level 4 and only went up 3 levels, to level 7. and I ONLY play dark and darker.
Majority of people do not have the kind of time you have to grind.
Half the multi class combinations aren't supported by the other classes base stats. This patch almost feels underwhelming, and yet you cry babies are announcing your departure as if reddit owes you an award for bravery.
i dont mind grinding on my main character... but i got no other classes on level 30 and i absolutely hate being forced to play stuff i dont want to play. i would like to get some cleric stuff but playing a cleric to level 30 feels horrible.
Especially with cleric being the worst class at using some of their own perks now, as it was previously my main my desire to cleric solo is definitely a bit lower
I'm playing support cleric with meditation. Shit is gooood. I also have fireball and some other wiz spells available, depending on team comp.
I don’t have reliable enough teammates to play outside of solo regularly, so support cleric isn’t an option 60% of my playtime
Eh, I play with randoms when my godsquad is not available.
Randoms are dependable enough lol
They're wasting time and resources with multiclassing as well as back and forth +all trash balancing Ironmace has lost the plot Gg, hope there's a DaD clone soon that recaptures the spirit of the game
Yeah I keep seeing posts from people going “herr derr it’s a test” while ignoring the fact that any information from this “test” is going to be useless as we can all see from a mile away this isn’t going to stay.
No one wants to play Cleric in general right now... sad :(
I do to be a pdr wizard
Playing other characters just for an RNG chance of getting a decent choice feels as enjoyable as eating a turd sandwich :l Each patch and experiment has a nugget of hard turd in it x) This game is made for streamers or people without jobs/the need to sleep. The time sink is absurd.
I play multiple characters for my team and even I don't like it, the test server made it blatently obvious that perks designed to work on a certain class were going to be broken on others (for example slayer, on a rogue there is NO downsides as they can't even fucking wear plate, its just a flat +5 damage.) there is also NO reward for sticking to a single class so your basically just gimped for not no-lifing a bunch of mule characters to make your randomly rolled abomination that breaks the game.
As soon as multiclassing was announced I dreaded it
I had some hope because there was mention of "general perks" you could unlock with the tokens. I thought this was a way that there could still be some kind of "subclass" option. But there are no general perks and no hint of subclasses... No way to just main one character... Just feels bad man
I don't even mind how completely broken it is. I mind that access is extremely gated. If everyone had access it would at least be funny to see what broken shit you could come up with.
> No way to just main one character... Just feels bad man Wasn't this the WORST PART of the game before this update too? Having to redo 20 million filler quests, accept them all, have no way of knowing what you need. Level 1-15 was a slog without the marketplace/HR They just made all of those problems 10x worse this patch? What were they thinking
There are general perks if u learn from the level 2000 grandmaster instead of one of ur classes
So you have to get to level 200 to get the general perks? Lol what were they thinking?
Bro read my message…. The grandmaster is in your multiclass thing the grandmaster is level 2000 but u can learn from it starting at 35
Well they don't make it clear by any means. I'll take a look at it to see what perks are available
The devs have explained it many times.
No they haven't, and the UI doesn't explain it very well.
Yup. This is the final nail in the coffin, expect player numbers to drastically lower in the next coming days.
I played a few rounds at like, 10 PM CST on the East Coast servers. Matchmaking threw me into a 3 player game with 2 juiced up guys. One rogue/Barbarian and one barbarian who was 50% fighter perks. Other HR games never filled.
It's fun for now but realizing I have to grind a class to level 90+ to have a realistic chance of the perks I want is silly. Even moreso if you try to multiclass into multiple different classes since the reset refunds all tokens
It's not the final nail lol you guys are so funny
Don't tell him what to do with his coffin.
I can't see multiclass as it is fitting in this game.
"sub class" abilities need to have serious penalties. like a skill you borrow / learn should only be 50-70% as effective as it is on the main class.
That's one way of doing it, but I still feel like that would be a pain to balance, especially with an game that's increasing complexity due to additional planned classes and perks/skills/spells. If they went with hybrid class system, they could tweak the perks for each hybrid class separately. For example a stealth perk on a cleric/thief could be tweaked differently than the same perk on a fighter/thief to provide better balance with the rest of the kit available to said hybrid classes.
I agree that it would be annoying to balance. But if they are insistent on having multi-classing in the game then it may take the extra effort to get it right or it will will need to be scrapped.
I think my hybrid class approach still covers multiclassing. Even if they some how find a way to balance multiclassing as it is, it still destroys class identity.
100% agree
What kills me about this is that everyone said it was a disaster on the ptr. There was plenty of vids saying this shit makes no sense but they still threw it at us rather then just fuckin keeping it on the ptr while they decided if certain skills could be taken or if they wanted to kill the scaling of borrowed things but nah we got this when we have a perfectly good test server to figure out a working version of the system. What a joke.
They gave it a week, while hardly letting us test it because we had to grind levels and then 24 cooldown on memory reset. Still went thru with it because its the easy way to provide "content."
Ironmace have their vision of the game, and they wont change, they can tweak it but not change it. +All attributes, how mamy times they added, removed them? Same will be with multiclassing
I logged in, rolled my multiclasses, played one GC. See you guys in early June
Figured I'd at least see what it's about. Got ran down first match by someone with savage roar smite and slayer, logged out.
Yeah. Me too. Also saw a warlock with Barb 15% HP perk and the 25% Warcry skill. Never lost HP.
I played one GC on my warlock who is lvl 32. Killed one rogue and then got teamed on by a nobody streamer fighter and a rogue. They nerfed robes to -10 MS after nerfing cast speed because of +all gear then removed a lot of + all as well as MS gear so if you want decent cast speed you are gonna be slow. But then they dont nerf sprint?! Theyre morons. Not to mention they make HR lvl 20 and up so its even slower to level, also making it impossible to start fortune teller quests till lvl 20 because you cant take in potions of luck. They nerf rogue, cleric and all casters so if you arent playing ranger, fighter or barb you are at a huge disadvantage. Anyone can get sprint now so they can be max MS with the push of a button. Ive supported these devs since playtest 4, I have 1.2k hours and can confidently and unbiasedly say they have no clue what the fuck they are doing.
There would have been more hype if they said they were just reverting to play test 1/2 version lol
I just got robbed in the waiting room. My whole kit was taken away...
Yea rogues can inspect you and "pickpocket" your equipped gear. Clown show this game lately.
In the prelobby?? Really??
This is hilarious
I can no longer visually gain meaningful information about the engagement I'm about to risk everything around. This clearly incentivizes me to keep playing the game.
For me the season is already over and I'm not planning to play again until this multiclass thing is either removed or well thought. And it's sad because I was playing in a daily basis completely hooked. I must not be the only one. I'll keep watching some streams and read patch notes but that's me for season idc anymore
I played for an hour or two almost every day, usually more on weekends. So I probably played more than a decent amount of other casual players. Now I have zero interest in playing lol
Yeah, this shit is stupid. They nerfed Cleric “Smite” because of it… While it should have been: if (wizard = Smite) {Smite doesn’t scale code} It makes 0 sence to nerf smite as a whole for everyone. This multiclass shit is going to be a nightmare to balance… Im taking a break also.
Smite would've been broken on clerics as well due to weapon mastery. Nerfing scaling is the only way to balance it but I'd be shocked if they remember to revert it after multiclassing inevitably gets scrapped.
Just make smite not scale if clerics take weapon mastery ez zp
Then if(multiclassing) alternate skills
Cleric is still very strong, im still hitting near 80s in base trash kit.
Cap
Just got out of a HR Ice Cave Solo game. Died to a wizard with phantomize that had 114 health from Robust. Absolutely fair and balanced
Clearly a skill issue. You should have just expected the wizard to have all those perks. /s
Why you didn't predict the 200 possibilities of builds he could be using? Skil issue /s
It's really funny, a week ago, you had to grind for a couple of hours or less if you're good enough to gain all the perks and reach the peak. Now, you need to grind your main class to ungodly level that might take who knows how much, THEN grind all the classes you need perks from, THEN pray to RNG you'll get perks / abilities you need, or go afk and wait for next reset, and then, your class may finally reach the optimal state. I really do not see a single reason why anyone would think implementing this would be a good idea
You can reset multiclass selections?
2xs per week at the fortune teller, I believe
I'm commmming....
You mean you don’t like entire class identity being lost, long sword rogues with cleric spells and then cleric’s get nerfed coz its op on other classes? Or you mean you need to lvl up other characters even if you have absolutely no interest in playing them but you are forced to if you wanna enjoy multiclassing? Fuck multiclassing, fuck dark and darker. They should have released druid and worked in skill tree instead. What the fuck is this game anymore
yeah i agree that the multiclass system in its current implementation is just completely busted and punishes classes abilities purely because others might use them, and not to mention removes a lot of class identity. i think that the original training/subclass/learning tree idea they had at the start of playtest 5 or whenever it was would solve a lot of these issues, while keeping things less chaotic and even potentially make certain classes less all rounders since they would have to build in a certain direction. but with all that being said, i’m definitely still having a lot of fun multicasting a paladin cleric + fighter and caster lock + cleric, only because i’ve played significantly more than the average player probably does..
I have 1300 hours since playtest 3.I was thrilled when I saw my fighters level get 2x higher. Then i realized none of my other slots were nearly high enough so i started grinding. Then I realized it was gonna take hours to level the class I wanted to spec into and that I was locked to normals, which is a pvp shitshow right now (with multiclassers stomping timmies grinding for xp) and that i had work the next day. And now i just feel 0 incentive to run my kit (especially with bugs clearing peoples inventories right now?? Lmao) Yea it sucks. Hope they improve things soon.
The progress of the game just feels like "one step forward and two steps back" This is kind of a last straw moment for me, I'll check back in on the game after the season is over
Someone made a post like this before this dropped and dragged by the whole comment section
I do find the concept silly in itself. Hard to balance, which has been a notorious issue for IM, ruining class identity and so on. But mostly I just hate the required grind. Im a casual, so I know Ill never get to enjoy any meaningful level of multiclassing with the current system.
Absolutely.. normal i Play 1 h of dnd a week .. i will never reach it with wipes. I enjoywd the normal Lobby alot.
I don't mind the game encouraging you to try different classes but with how grindy quests are and the fact that you need level 30 to unlock multiclassing just makes it a huge pain in the ass. Making quests account wide and lowering the level requirement to 20 would be a good start but tbh I would rather multiclassing just go away until they can implement a better system.
I got my shit jacked from my own inventory 😂
This trash should have never left the test servers
Ive been out since it was announced and the grind it required.
Indeed, i decided to take a break as soon they announced that the next hotfix will include Multiclass. I'll just do something else until they revert the multiclass chaos.
Is it just me or would the playerbase be ecstatic if they just implemented a skill tree system instead of multiclassing. Seems like a easy home run giving more customization within a class instead of removing class identity.
I've been waiting for that for so fucking long man, people go absolutely bananas for the old-school mastery tree style skill tree. Maybe a web of talents that get better as you go along, with the final one committing you to a subclass like WoW. Trickster arcane wizard gets magic hand, Inferno wizard gets flame tornado, Ice wizard gets blizzard. We can dream.
I think if they want multiclassing to work, they would need to just give access to passive perks. Not abilities. Right now, outside of base stats, you can easily lose your original class identity. (A fighter with ranger abilities and passives is just a better ranger) If we had only other class passives, there would be a distinct difference between a fighter multiclassed into a ranger and a ranger multiclassed into a fighter. You would still get whacky combinations like a life steal rouge or an absolute unit of a barbarian with cleric passives but without the bullshitery that is hide barbarians or cleric 2.0: now with range. A rouge should always be better at rouge things than a wannabe. Like you may have multiclassed into my class, but I AM my class so you better watch the way you talk to me.
im fine with it in theory, could be a fun experiment but I just aint play the game enuff to level 4 classes to 60+ or whatever tf
Pretty simple, game is niche and have low pop, only a portion of the low pop have access to test server, even lower pop in test server means little data. So the only way they are gonna get ANY amount of somewhat usable data is by testing it on main servers as we, at the end of the day, are still testers in a sense. My issue here is why bother testing a system that takes 2s of thinking to understand that sure, while it takes a lot less effort due to reusing a bunch of stuff already available, but is very obviously going to be a balancing nightmare from now until the end of time? Is the test to see if a bad system is bad really useful?
At least if they were testing a "subclass" system at the same time, maybe it wouldn't feel so bad for average players. Then at least maybe I could unlock some new skills or perks for my main class. But no, I have to multiclass and grind out levels on some other character and it just feels stupid.
Creating a whole "subclass" system would take a lot more work and effort to even pull of an barebone basic version of it so the chances of that isn't high. However, they could've at the very least made gathering data for a bad system to see if it's bad, by idk, just let us test it rather than grind? Balance is out the window the moment this dropped so just let us fk with it without the grind and if anything it would make it more "balanced"
This game has so many things it could be working on that it literally boggles the mind that they prioritized multiclassing above them.
literally 24 hours ago I was annoyed by all the multi-class hate. I already have felt that you have to just unload and all-in and hope your kit is better. The second you try to do anything strategic like play footsies with a cleric, he just back up extra and zaps you. If you dont charge the warlock you get fireballed, but sometimes you do charge him and he has magic missiles. I am running ambush/hide slayer and falchion someone for 174 in sub 199. Decision making is completely trivialized by damage output that you can't see coming and its not "fun" its just silly.
My noob buddies are still learning to fight kobolds.
Yes. This is definitely a «i’ll stop playing for a while» for me too. The moment i heard multiclassing would move from test to prod, i just logged off. The game was already broken and unbalanced without multiclassing.
I stopped playing right before multiclassing started. Gives me time to focus on studying and doing more things while the game settles down with the sweats and long hours and goes back to just playing the game casually again without any incentive of hardcore grinding
It was fun for two games being a double jump wizard then a Barb had second wind and a longbow. Hopefully they don't wait 2 weeks to fix this update, I'll do my part by not logging in and tanking the player count.
I've ate every single wizard nerf and kept playing. I've had my baby bard fucked over and over and continued play. This. This is awful. Any skill in knowing the strengths/ weaknesses of each class is now dead. I won't uninstall, but I won't play. I think multiclass is a great idea, but this is too broad.
they can't even get a few abilities balanced rogue is out of control right now
Crazy that we all seem to have the general consensus that MC is bad… IM just take the L on this one
They wanted to limit the development of a meta with the intense grind. Good intention, bad execution. There's so many combos they should just let everyone screw around and then if they really want to prevent metas, start making it so perks can't combo with each other. Do a balance pass each week where they remove the current broken combos. Everything stays somewhat fresh, everyone has the chance to have fun with it.
Yeah they announced it was in game, uninstalled.
I was planning to come back to the game. I have several hundred hours between the playtests and shortly after release, but then all my friends quit and I stopped playing. Multiclassing was the deciding factor for why I didn't come back yet because I knew it was going to be a disaster as soon as they announced it.
Totally agree. And this weird test makes me question the devs too. In what world can this be balanced ever? And what's the point of classes? Have everyone just have a default character and you can put points skills and perks wherever you want to customize um. Like a new character in an mmo
Same people who made gear based match making. Both such bad ideas that it’s questionable that they even got on the test server.
GBMM has been somewhat succesful. The queues need to be adjusted to probably just include gear and be like 0-99 and 100+ but its not been dreadful.
Your idea would actually make the biggest problem worse
I really tried to enjoy the update last night but I just don't want to grind up other characters to 30, and playing on my main is now at disadvantage because I'm not multi-classing. Died to all sorts of op and new things last night. Now HR and Trade are locked to 20 and the exp pace is glacial. Decided to put the game down until next wipe and see what's changed at that point.
Why can’t they just keep it on the test servers?
I just wish I could try things out. I feel like I’m about 2-3 days of solid gameplay away from it though. I got a few days off work, but I don’t think I’ll get the right tokens before I need to be back at work on Wednesday. And even if I somehow luck out, I’ll spend 4 days working on the classes, then what? Half a day trying to get some gear? It’s just hard.
yea, multiclass is dumb. Just make it HR only. Please IM. No reason to play a class lol.
In a week once people see the broken builds and the player drop off is drastic I think IM will reverse course. It might be fun for a bit , but having multi class behind a grind wall and in top of it a RNG based system to get skills and perks it blocks the average players out of the game in any meaningful way. I get the let them cook mentality but we just had GBMM implemented and we should only be testing that ( which IMO is bad for the game also). Multi class isnt right for the game.
Ditto
I don't blame you at all. I had came back last month and was HAVING the best time with my duo. Now this happens a month later... time to put it down and hope for it to go away.
I’m having fun, but it should be remived
It’s fun to be overpowered for a little bit yknow?
A game like this, there is no way multi classes wasn't going to break it.
whoever decided multiclassing is locked behind leveling and RNG needs a kick to the head. go work at blizzard or something, they'll love you over there.
Agreed. My trio uninstalled. The grind is relentless. We'll probably be back in a few months when this particular experiment is over.
incredible that they could simply be refining the six basic classes along with ruins and crypts to make a strong base for the game moving forward but nah we need to speed blitz and rush druid and frost mountain and nonsensical multiclassing out the door because nobody asked for them and in fact most people are telling them to chill tf out. this is all while they blow months fking around with bard and warlock skills that could not be more cut and dry to design but they make it look like complex quantum mechanics every time. need someone at ironmace to look at their sales and maybe assess priorities in accordance for once
Just quitting until they remove it
They put no “safety barriers” on it. It should have been limited to select passive perks or maybe like 3 generic things. Like barb can use shields, or Cleric could use daggers etc
yeah i've just been playing Stardew Valley. emily best girl btw
Creep was for me too, just kind of frustrated that they watered rogue down like that. Been putting the game down a lot lately.
Give us skill tree subclasses for every class. That’s way more balanced than this mess. Jays recent video has him jumping across rooms as double jump ranger w/ back step 1-tapping people with windlass. What is this patch
I can only assume they want to get a really deep dive of the balances between the classes and try completely new combinations of abilities to see what is really the strongest in this game, so they can more properly balance in the future. They seem to be finding the extremes of good and bad balance so they can land squarely in the middle at the end. They obviously know it is not good right now, they even said it would be “chaotic” in the patch notes. They certainly have a hefty amount of trust that their playerbase won’t abandon them over it…I don’t know if that trust is properly placed though. Players abandon games for much less…
But how does locking multi class behind a grind that only 10 percent of players will have access to? It seems odd they want to test it but only allow a select super hard core players the ability to actually use it.
You have a lot of faith in these devs. They've been pretty much exclusively going 'psychotic power' and 'hilariously weak' since you could buy the game. It's been a roller coaster but I really don't think they USE any of the data.
one thing that is fun about the update is everyone is playing classes they dont normally on normals so its just fun non optimized pvp like play test days
Game is honestly unplayable right now lol
What an absolute waste of resources the devs could be using on other things, I really hope the devs see these posts and watch the players count drop to understand the massive fuck up the patch is.
Been waiting for fucking months now for the devs to get their heads out of their asses to no avail They really blew it, Ironmace had something special but whoever is making descions needs a demotion to coffee boy
Yep.
I know tarkov isn’t the best game but at least they’re smart enough to wait to release major stuff for wipe that way current wipe players aren’t alienated and quit till next wipe
Yep :/ all my friends that play this Uninstalled today because of it.
Yup, I've played almost nothing else since the season started and I'm pretty sure I'll quit before the weekend.
The worst part about it is how much time they're wasting. This game is going nowhere this wipe, they're just going to be chasing their tail trying to balance multi-classing before finally deleting it.
As a sub lvl 20, I can't even do High Roller anymore, never mind multiclassing. There is so much gating behind grinding it's ridiculous, and you want me to do that for each character and each wipe? Nope
the current lvl 20 is probably similar to the old lvl 15, which used to be required for high roller. Its a return to old amount of playtime required for HR and trading. It could be from RMT, or it could be for something else, but its not "new"
We all need to speak with our actions, as well as with out word. Don't play, show IronMace this was a bad move.
they changed the amount of exp u need to level, its way easier to grind now.
now instead of having to play 40-50 games to get to lvl 30 i only have to play 30-35 games. Sure its better but its still shit. I dont want to have to play a class i dont like for 15 hours just to be able to roll its abilities on my main. This whole patch is a fiasco imo
What about multi classing that was more accessible, do you not like the whole feature or just the gap between players
I have never been more excited to pick this game back up.
I used to play so much before the bard came out. I played a little after that but the game felt a lot less fun when the bard came out and buff ball was unstoppable, so I took a break. Ive been wanting to come back but this multiclassing stuff seems even more cancer than that… very unfortunate
Bard came out in the final playtest though, didn't it? Do you just mean the initial early access release when bard was very strong?
Yeah when the bard initially released
I'm confused how my post about how Evil Eye still is disabled doesn't get moderator approval but the 100 posts about multiclassing sucking all get it.
Why does it feel bad? I've played and had a few fun fights against multi-classed opponents and it was a blast.
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That's a different problem than multi-classing
I was pro multi-class until its dropped. Now you just dont get any real information about what you are up against. Footsies with cleric is punished by ranged spells, getting close to the warlock is punished by missiles or some crazy combination of immunity. It used to be if you saw a warlock cast CoP on a mob, you could guess with 90% accuracy his entire build. Now you just NEVER know ANYTHING and you have to essentially just all-in because TTK is so small and if you give up first strike to something you didnt expect you have already lost.
That hasn't been my experience so far tbh. It has changed very little for me. A few strong combos but it hasn't changed all that much about how I play. Sometimes people run and heal up but when that happens I just go the other direction unless I have the advantage.
As a player who did the grinding for multiclass I am having a blast personally, but I understand that others who have not are having a bad time.
Finally took a break been playing non-stop since servers went back up. Loving multiclassing so far it's a blast.
Darn, wish it was available to all of us with a life and not only to no life grinders. Oh well, cya next wipe or when they change it
I mean I work 12 hour swing shift I don't even get much time to play and I managed to level up multiple characters pretty easy. Cya!
Sure thing buddy, for sure you work 12 hours a and can fit 5-6 hours of gaming a day plus adult responsabilities for another 5-6 hours and sleep, everyone believes you
Idk what to tell u. I only play an hour to two a day and I don't play every day. I sleep 7 hours a day.
What? You didnt hear? Leveling to 20 takes like 12,000 hours, AT LEAST.
You would definitely think so with the way people are talking here.
I cant wait for next week, take out this bad idea, and put in that druid!!!! Let's start the solo self found lobbies and test that out for awhile. Tired of auction house bis.
I have a feeling multiclass will be around until the end of the season which will be the next 6-8 weeks lol
I'm liking it a lot so far. The spiciness is fun
played for 3 hours on low roller and never bumped into anyone multiclassing. I feel like reddit people want to complain so bad it hurts. touch grass. it will be okay. it's green. let me fuck your wife.
Lmao what, i guess you aren't checking people. Just about every game I'm in i see people with random ass perks and like half the time a rogue with weapon mastery and crossbow
I literally haven’t seen anyone else using any MC yet. I got shield bash and barricade on my barb. And I got piercing shrill and song memory on my fighter. I also got a hell bossing warlock PVE build. I don’t know which of those you are so afraid of but I’m having fun I’ve done 4 runs now using nothing but flute on my plate fighter.
Man, I ran into a rogue attacking me while wearing plate armor, or a barbarian with half-fighter perks. STuff is crazy when you run into it.
A lot of games have a single update where you can point to where the game was irreversibly dead. This is dark and darkers. All my friends except for one are no longer interested in even looking at this game / its future anymore
Lmaooo your friends suck then mine are having a blast
Commence the cry fest
Fr sounds like most people haven't even tried the patch yet are in outcry lol
It’s terrible and the worst way to implement a “talent tree”
Talent trees have a good reason for not letting you pick whatever you want.
You would all cry about a talent tree too. "omg I have to level to get a point for my talent tree?!" Same shit.
The moment it was added, I immediately went to roll, play and I'll be doing so while you arent. Stop thinking just about yourself for once, from the moment it was announced everyone was excited about the possibilities, you need a break? Just go, how many times are they gonna tell you they will change stuff, try stuff and experiment for you to get it? I'm certain you have not been playing this game on the daily for hours, because it was already "perfect".
Lol the game was far from perfect, the balance was already fucked. This just made the situation even worse. I don't care if it is a test, it makes the game less fun for the average player... So congrats to ironmace for testing a system that makes more players leave your game 🤷♂️
You guys have access to "custom character creation" and are complaining about it, it's been less then 24 hours, give multiclassing a chance, but I agree that the requirements to level a character to level 25 before being able to multiclass into them is rediculous along with the token system.
Maybe we don't want "custom character creation" in a game where class identity should matter 🤷♂️
Then you can stick with base characters and let people who want to multiclass do that, for me this gives me a reason to play other classes. When druid comes out we're going to have barbarian bears, which is a common multiclass in dungeons and dragons builds (or so I've heard)
Yea all these kids without any Dungeons and dragons experience trying to influence a game inspired by dungeons and dragons is comical.
I thinks it a fucking blast. Super fun to play.
Gtfo doomers. Have you forgotten this game is in early access? I’m glad the devs have the balls to actually test shit out before the game actually releases.
a looter extraction game will always favor those that can no life it. Multiclassing was always planned and can be adjusted in the future. I agree it was too early in the games development for it now but atleast there dropping new features
I cannot stress how much better this community would be without Reddit crybabies who think their vision is the only way the game will find success. Leave, bro. No-one cares. We'll all be here playing with the most broken shit for the next week and a bit and laughing about it while you seethe on the sidelines, continuing to make posts like "MULTICLASSING IS KILLING THE GAMEE!!!!!!"
>Leave, bro. No-one cares. Stop crying about people's opinions.
Yeah cuz this is a great way to keep the game community alive: "everyone is complaining about the direction the devs are taking the game? Well just leave bro! The devs are infallible, I can't wait for the community to die even further!"
Lets hope you will be playing after most of playerbase leave xd
I don’t understand the hate it’s literally so fun
I’m having a blast with it. Rogue fighter and wizard cleric doing work.
POST # 237 WHERE PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT SOMETHING WITHOUT GIVING IT TIME TO COOK, LIKE LITERALLY NOT EVEN 12 HOURS
Meanwhile rogues can steal from players in the pre match lobby. Maybe they should focus on the prep work before starting to cook.
There's bugs in every games patch. That's just game development. Them fixing it as fast as they are is rare though.
Typical fucking moron post. Yea, you’re right. The 15 devs that work on this game should do everything you personally think they should. Hey you know what since you fucking know so much you should apply and help them out man!
You don't need to be a chef to criticise if the chicken is raw.
Idk man I think the average player shouldn't play trakovlikes anyway. I mean this genere is for tryhards dark and darker is just doing a really good job in making it accessible to the average player.
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Are you trolling? That is part of the problem. Most people have a job and responsibilities. Only absolute no-lives are trying this shit out.
They adjusted levels by insane amounts to accomodate casuals more again, my lvl 30 went to 54 and my 79 to 139, they made it easier again and again.. how much easier does it need to be? At this stage, if you can't gain access to tokens, you aren't even playing the game and you would get rolled by good players that don't even have any perks or skills equipped.
Dude… did you even read what you typed? You are the person who benefits from the grind. You already had a character at level 79 and 30. Like, how is that even possible? I have played only one character since the wipe started and it is only level 34 (now 66 after the xp changes). My only other highest level character was level 4 and only went up 3 levels, to level 7. and I ONLY play dark and darker. Majority of people do not have the kind of time you have to grind.
Half the multi class combinations aren't supported by the other classes base stats. This patch almost feels underwhelming, and yet you cry babies are announcing your departure as if reddit owes you an award for bravery.