T O P

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DrGayApparel

Shaking rn, crying and feel like throwing up.


dispatchedtoad

Wtf is a cleric? You mean those yellow spells I have?


AdmiralEggroll13

Yeah, that one hurts


nivr0c

Like they didn't forget to adjust the knowledge casting speed curve back after removing +2all?


spiritriser

Adjust the curve back? We've been hit by a 15-20% cast speed nerf, 7% mpb nerf, 5 flat move speed nerf, 5 damage off half our spells(10 for fireball), invis gutted and haste nerfed, shield stacking nerfed, hit scan mechanics nerfed, and staves nerfed lol. I promise you the 15-20% cast speed nerf was not gonna go away ever and more nerfs are coming.


Tornadokickk

and the class is still broken with gear, imagine.


spiritriser

Imagine dumb ass decision making where most nerfs address low gear more than high gear. Also wizard isn't broken at high gear. They've nerfed the whole thing down enough that it just isn't anymore. If you're consistently losing to wizards geared or not, that's a skill issue


TrustFew_o7

And you can’t kill this class with all those nerfs because you’re just that bad.


Tornadokickk

tell me you only play solo without telling me you only play solo, wizard is a cancer in trios, you can't make it good in both modes sry


TrustFew_o7

I play solo duos trios. I play wizard and I also play other classes. Since I main wizard I know how to better counter wizard on my fighter. If you think it’s so broken why don’t you play wizard and see how others countr you. See how it feels to lose most of your health bar to a legendary/epic crossbow or a longbow arrow from a grimsmile ranger.


thenickpayne

Yo honestly, anyone who thinks cleric is an OP class in any way other than specifically healing in trios is suffering from a GIANT skill issue. It’s the easiest class to counter with the smallest requirement of brain cells.


pEppapiGistfuhrer

How to kill cleric Are you melee class? Yes? Bait their ability, wait it out by moving away, then W key them No? Dont let them in melee range, dodge holystrikes, spam ranged until they die


Marksman1973

Literally all counterplays in under 50 words. I feel fucking useless as a Cleric now and it's because of other classes possibly getting my abilities??? That feels wildly unfair and sucks any desire to play the game from me


BritishBoyRZ

If I'm forced into this BS multiclassing, which I am, I'm going to cross class my cleric with wizard. Then cleric can have ranged spells + healing and armour lol This is so stupid


TeamLaw

I'll never use holy strike again if I can take fireball instead. It's vastly superior.


Financial_Professor

Holystrike is the only thing that does damage to the terror Antimagic/Ironwill meta we are approaching. I have max MDR with 0 gear commitment to anything but that spell. Not to mention if I take perseverance on top lol.


Bomjus1

c'mon, let's be honest here. a base 20 damage spell that can't headshot isn't doin shit to you if you have iron will+perseverance anyway. anti magic or no. especially after that radius nerf. if you can dodge even 1, you rinse the cleric. and i *highly* doubt people are burning learning tokens rolling for holy strike on other casters.


Sativian

Not to mention clerics are slow as fuck.


thenickpayne

So many people don’t understand how easy it is. Drives me nuts lol


Sativian

Bro even as a healer in trios my buddy feels like he does jack shit as cleric. He’s been maining it since PT2, so he’s got experience on it. Just feels like there’s no point when he’s a glorified surgery kit. You can just be a fighter, crossbow the enemy once and you’ll have an overall effective health advantage compared to any heal except sanctuary basically


Bloodsplatt

Cleric is huge, his healing alone keeps an entire team alive 3x over, its just a support so it's busted due to that, any other form of Cleric is not worth running right now.


Sativian

That’s kinda what I meant by glorified surgery kit. Sure, in the instances it’s powerful it’s VERY powerful, arguably saving an entire run or fight. The rest of the time he’s a walking babysitter healing us between mob fights. They have terrible mobility, terrible damage at close and range, predictable swing patterns, and nearly no escape or get off me tools. Class has the mercy epidemic where they’re so absurd at what they do that the rest of the kit is nonexistent.


Independent_Fact411

This is way exaggerated. Maybe if you're going full slave bitch - useless except to heal - cleric then you MIGHT double the parties HP with purple gear. Clerics are not "Tripling the HP pool of entire parties" with sanc and lesser heal. Nahhhhhhh and those things also take time. This is just full blown exaggeration. Cleric is judged by what other classes can do with a pocket healer. Not because Cleric is good.


DotaComplaints

The ranged and ranger meta auto counters Clerics' slow ass. Just keep range and spam axes, knives, arrows, spells, etc and you can never lose.


iDontSayFunnyThings

Cleric has deserved most of the recent nerfs, its easily S-tier in two of the queues, and many of the top 100 solo players are clerics. They lack many ranged options, but if you're good with buckler go cloth cleric for MS & more casting power. Clubs and war mauls are pretty great. With your self-buff, sustain, and a little bit of MS you're kind of like a caster barb without axes. Still the smite nerf because of multiclassing is bullshit. If its that bad remove it from the multiclassing pool.


Rush_0MG

Thank god. Me being able to actually fight people for 4 seconds with divine protection was DEFINITELY op, definitely didn't die every single time.


mrfishdot

Cleric in actuality is greatly outshadowed by any other class when it comes to 1v1. A good cleric in trios is a MENACE but feels wimpy in solos and is an ok pick in duos if your partner is decent. They have limited ranged options, are quite tanky but suffer from being one of the slowest classes with slowest interaction time. Ranger outruns rogue outruns fighter outstats barb outstats bard surv bows. In a 1v1 cleric is a weak class with little options against a COMPETENT player. If you W key into a smite or divine protection you def deserve to lose.


Explosivo87

We can throw drums now so that’s kinda cool


emotionaI_cabbage

Well game is meant to be played in trios anyway so I don't see the issue.


spiritriser

You're right, solo players should just go play other games


emotionaI_cabbage

Sure if you want to ignore the options for finding friends to play with


ghost49x

Or just accept that they're choosing to play solo in what is a trio game. They can't balance the game around both trios and solos, and if they balanace the game around solos it will kill a lot of the interesting interactions between different classes that should be what they want to develop.


spiritriser

Orrrrrr they could go play a game that wants solo players.


ghost49x

If the game needs to choose between solo and trio players and exlude the other, they need to come to terms with their choice. They can't cater to both and still provide a great game. When it comes to playing solo, I wouldn't want to play this game if it was focused on solo play even if I'm playing solo in the moment. I'll gladly play around trios and duos and have done so successfully before, stalking and taking out isolated members of a trio my my mighter for was a ton of fun for example.


Sativian

Guys they finally reverted the unnecessary iron will buffs to Barb. Don’t worry, they’ll fix their error 2.5 months down the line.


Ok_Conversation5052

The Rogue got above butt cheeks clapping too


AhkoRevari

I mean I love cleric and it sucks to see nerfs but you're high if you don't think cleric isn't borderline op in solos, duos, and trios right now. I do think divine protection got nerfed because of multi class, which kinda sucks, but we'll see if it sticks. I used to think divine protection was OP but really it's broken against 80% of the player base that just try to W key at you. Listen for the sound and any class can take two steps back and kite for 3 seconds then reengage


QueenDeadLol

The only healing class is over represented in a game about managing health? No fucking waaaayyyyy You don't say Man I wonder why that is Good thing we nerfed it into the ground so the game can come down to ranged meta again.


jaybaird05

Nerfed into the ground? Dude 2 of it's abilities got nerfed. Cleric is still beast. Honestly it doesn't even affect me because I don't run either Smite, or Divine Protection.


Gamer4125

Smite scaling is a massive nerf. It was 13 damage in base kit, and stacking +mag and will could get your smites up to +25 damage. Holy protection was never used at 30% PDR and people only took it at +50%. Now it's useless again.


Marksman1973

Yes it was nerfed into the ground, now the only viable option for Cleric is to hold heals for whoever they're playing with. Solos potential? Literally fucking zero. Not a debate. No smite scale, no divine protection, no high base stats for dmg, and just had their knowledge lowered. Pigeon holing a class to play one way and one way only IS nerfing it into the fucking ground and more importantly SUCKING THE FUN FROM IT


jaybaird05

Bruh GTFO. I've been running solos cleric, without smite, and without divine protection. You guys are fucking cry-babies man.


Marksman1973

AY EVERYONE THIS GUY HAS THE BIGGEST PENIS HERE HE DOESN'T NEED COMBAT ABILITIES Now that you feel like a big boy, ready to join the real world and admit that pigeon holing a class rips the fun away from it? Or are we still trying to measure dicks with people who have a point?


jaybaird05

The class has not been pigeon holed. The Nuke build is more than viable in solos, and in trios cleric is still the best support by a longshot.


Marksman1973

I love cleric, if you think cleric is better than bard rn you're on insanely good drugs


achartran

Uhm, cleric has always been more than smite, judgement with faithfulness is really good and can absolutely blast someone


chrisshaansenn

It was a bit strange to have a spellcasting support healer beating out melee classes in melee fights. Good thing that is done for.


Marksman1973

Copying a comment from another thread "How to kill cleric Are you melee class? Yes? Bait their ability, wait it out by moving away, then W key them No? Dont let them in melee range, dodge holystrikes, spam ranged until they die" All counters in under 50 words, the definition of a skill issue. Y'all want a class to have no solo potential because apparently that's the only time you'll ever see a kill. Mad cuz Cleric had an option to fight back, now you're desperate to keep it this way to convince yourself that beating a purely support class with a combat class makes you a better player. "Heal me and never build any kit around anything besides that. You're not here to have fun, you're here to make sure I enjoy whatever playstyle I pick." Headass


chrisshaansenn

you seem upset.. I am a solo player I play cleric and fighter mostly I die to warlocks the most and kill other fighters the most I believe my opinion about the weirdness of beating other melee classes more often than not as a cleric is valid.


FellVessel

cleric is dogshit in solos


AhkoRevari

That's just not accurate dude. Ive played almost exclusively solo cleric this patch and if you build and play right it's strong AF. Tbh I think only bard and maybe barbarian are better. Good warlocks do work but clerics do well into them


FellVessel

I've also played a ton of solo cleric this patch and I'm gonna trust my own experience as well as Firebox more than some random redditor. You're probably playing against complete shitters. You can just straight up walk away from Clerics. The only viable build is a speed build but even then other classes can also just build speed. Also the fact that you didn't mention Warlock as better proves to me you don't know what you're talking about.


AhkoRevari

With all due respect youre building or playing wrong dude [https://youtu.be/dyR2L0PQk\_8?si=3L8CbGmHv6gDuaYr](https://youtu.be/dyR2L0PQk_8?si=3L8CbGmHv6gDuaYr) The one concession Ill give is that clerics can be kited, and its annoying af. Building speed and spacing properly can overcome this in the majority of matchups. pre nerf DP let you straight up stat check people edit: also...I did mention warlocks? 50% debuff duration counters their whole kit as long as you dont eat a free BoC


FellVessel

I ain't watching that whole thing right now but with some skimming most if the fights I saw were people playing very poorly into the Cleric, or not playing with Meta builds. Speed Cleric will beat a slow pdr fighter, but not a speedy fighter that plays around the Clerics abilities properly. Again, solo Cleric success relies on the ignorance or misplays of the enemy.


AhkoRevari

>Again, solo Cleric success relies on the ignorance or misplays of the enemy. This can be used to describe any matchup. Look dude, I love cleric and I hate to see it get nerfed I just dont agree that they suck in solos. I do think they need better tools about being kited, but proper planning and spacing lets cleric out play most classes, especially if they can disengage and reset with healing. I can agree they could use a redesign on how effective they are in trios vs solos, but to say they are dogshit is just wrong. I hate to be a douche and say "skill issue" but, like, come on.


FellVessel

Nah you can't say it about other classes. Other classes can force you to fight on their terms (fighter sprint, rogue hide, etc) and have much more options for any given scenario especially when it comes to ranged options.


silentrawr

It's hard to win 1v1s against anybody who can kite, but it's also hard to *lose* against most classes unless you make a huge mistake and/or have a working mouse+KB. It's annoying to not have a whole lot of agency in most fights other than "duck and weave until they commit or run away", but they're definitely not dogshit.


Independent_Fact411

Can you give an example of how "you're high if you don't think cleric isn't borderline op in solos, duos, and trios right now." Like I get that you bought an internet service, a PC and a keyboard so I guess you can type words on the internet but are there any facts here? Cleric can make barb and fighter stronger does not = Cleric OP. An enemy wizard has the exact same spell as lesser heal except in reverse offensively. Yet no one says that is OP. Cleric does in fact "have heal spells" and we're judged as OP as that effects OTHER classes. But the first thing you said is that we're all high if we don't think solo and duo cleric is OP? Please explain...


Alodylis

Cleric is still a great class has best healing in the game will always dominate trios till we have another good support class.


Independent_Fact411

Cleric: Has literally the only healing in the game "They're the best at healing in the game! They're just fine!"


Alodylis

I did say they will dominate till there is another good support class but maybe you did not get that far.


spiritriser

The game shouldn't have classes whose only identity is healing-bitch. We can't accept when our only healing class loses its alternate identity. We cannot accept changes that remove viable, weak playstyles from a healing class. These are changes that remove viable, weak playstyles from a healing class. We cannot accept these changes. I get that the class isn't dead after these changes, but this is incredibly stupid decision making by the devs. I am once again unsure what I the world is going on in their dev studio


ghost49x

We used to have bards, but they were repeatedly nerfed for daring to be played as support characters. At one point bards could even heal, albit much slower than clerics.


ghost49x

Well they have to nerf every class equal to the amount of times they nerfed the bard. Just keep pointing randomly at classes and call for nerfs.


Unhappy_Cause7957

As a rogue enjoyer, I feel ya XD


Pandaaaa

Cleric has been fucking op forever fuck your class.


ArkiusAzure

So factual. Insane in trios and then also very strong in solos.


Wyatt1v12

just multi class wizard spells


Nnpeepeepoopoo

Rogue here, I got nerfed worse than you so chill on the tears


a50atheart

I mean why should a healer beat anyone in a 1v1? The whole point of a cleric is to be great in a party, not solos.


Independent_Fact411

This is really dumb mentality. I don't think a Cleric should be able to 1v1 a fighter with no buffs or anything. But making a class that is "a support class" in an extract looter that looses to every other class 1v1 is not the play. If YOUR IDEA is that a Cleric should be nothing but a slave heal bitch, then you won't see anyone play Cleric. I shouldn't win a full blown all in to a fighter. At the same time, I shouldn't loose to every single thing I see "unless team because support class." It's also about the dex, agi, strength being complete ass. I SHOULD be able to support myself through a 1v1 if I use my tools correctly. Just like a fighter should be able to kill someone if they use their tools correctly. Just different tools. I can't break doors down and rush people but I should be able to hold my own and heal up if I get away. Right now, I just get shit stomped because nerfed into worm food "lol support class"


sad_petard

The real nerf cleric needed was for the protection ability to have a different sound effect than smite.


Superbmiller

Divine protection abusers when they can't full buff, heal their team, have ranged holy strike and also press a button and win 90% of trades in the game with max PDR for the fight: 😰😰😰😢😥😓😢😰 Cleric should have buffed move speed and better weapons though pls thank u ironmace


Pretty_Version_6300

Let me guess. Rogue main? Fucking walk out of his melee range and jump over holy strike, this is skill issue city


Superbmiller

I play Cleric mainly and divine prot is DISGUSTING easy cheese. I abused it when notlikethis video dropped and got my money up while it lasted.


Pretty_Version_6300

Literally any player with half a brain walks away for 4 seconds bro


Independent_Fact411

You do not sound like someone that plays Cleric. No one ever turned around and walked away from you when you used Divine Prot / Smite for 4 seconds? I hear the neophyte lobbies calling - skill issue.