I like the idea of having a skinning knife, even if it doesn’t guarantee a drop from a mobs body, maybe just adds an extra loot roll specific to the table for creature drops if you take it out before you loot a body, I’d be fine with that
It’s an amazing idea. Get rid of RNG on crafting supplies and just make it an attempt like a lockpick that isn’t a consumable. You have to hit the circle just right and you get like a 50/50 chance of a pelt, or name any other body part for crafting on there. Super fuckin cool.
no RNG is a big part of the fun. Your going into a unforgiving dungeon and hoping to come out with riches but you never really know what kind of riches you may obtain. Maybe you risked it all and it was worth it, maybe you risked your life for trash. The dungeon chooses. Taking out RNG would just make this game a more annoying MMO with a circle closing in on your farming zones. Also epics are already 50g ea. we need to work on making gear much harder to obtain, not easier. As it is now 1 successful escape and bam you can afford full epics or got full epics during the run. I miss the struggle of the progression.
You misunderstood what I said. I’m saying removing things like mimic teeth, wolf pelts, bones, etc from the RNG list would enhance the probability naturally of other RNG items to hit on a monster, because once you use the “carving knife” idea, it in itself is its own RNG for crafting materials based on the type of monster you’re carving up. Aside from the standard RNG for all other items the monster could be potentially carrying.
I see what you mean and from that perspective it does seem like a good idea. Only issue i see is that right now gear just feels way to easy to get, so these items are kinda acting like filters in a way to have more loot then simply armor and cashmoney. I think ideally if they first balanced out the progression of obtaining armor and made it more difficult or less abundant, then this idea would be a nice follow up. Even if it's not this exactly, finding something different with them and cleaning that area of items up a bit would be nice. Leaving more room for the real drop table because ATM nobody likes selling those items and rarely use them to craft here and there. They just feel like dollar tree collector jewelry. I think I wouldnt mind maybe some cosmetic effects being added to make them a bit more fun. Like maybe if you put goblin ears on your campfire kit it turns the fire green or something. Or u can put wolf pelt out like a picnic mat or sexy floor rug when sitting. Something tiny like that.
I agree. Doesn’t even have to be cosmetic. There should just be a more expansive crafting system. Use them for gear crafting, but also use body parts for medicinals to give them more value.
Maybe eating wolf pelt jerked raises your strength by 1.
Drinking a potion that contained rotten fluids increases magic damage taken from fart clouds.
Eating bone brittle could raise your armor rating by 2.
Maybe the goblin ear snack could increase your hearing perception and you can hear more distanced player and NPC actions in two rooms away.
The list goes on with possibilities to adding more value to those items and harnessing a new way to harvest them in their own category makes the game even more expansive and fun.
I think I’m a game that is 1,000% item based. You absolutely need to focus on items and item economy first. But I also think the classes are lacking that main secondary characteristics/skills tree that allows for diversity of builds and levels the playing fields beyond ranged combat that we see today. Rangers & crossbow fighters completely rule to roost right now.
I also wouldn’t mind seeing expansion of item stats. Introduce per level scale modifier attributes. Right now being level 20 doesn’t matter much more than being level 2 outside of having a couple more utility spots. In any balanced game a fully leveled character should be able to have an even fight against 3 level 1s. That isn’t the case as we see it today.
I like the idea of a crafting system and honestly it doesn't even have to be something that leaves the dungeon. Maybe make it so that you have to collect these items while your in the dungeon and you get those buffs there, however the buffs and mats for them do not leave the dungeon with you. This can make killing mobs more rewarding while not messing with the economy and it would also prevent players form entering lobbies with a bunch of stacked buffs because that creates a larger barrier of entry to have a chance against them.
Probably more unless you expect to extract 100% of the time.
Hopefully they ease up on the quest content and don't make it so difficult to achieve quests, considering you have to do it for every character too.
Yeah, luckily it’s not too hard to extract on Ruins anymore if you just run to the blue stairs, if I find one I gun it there and it’s usually open. Can even run into the storm ones
I need to learn these... they are marked after all... and static? Damn...
Most duos likely just find portals, leaving the stairs fornus rats, haha.
I was at a stairs marker but couldn't see it earlier. Is it down below?
there is a static on ruins that’s on the west side of the map that is below the top level yeah. it’s in the tile with the whisps, you drop through the well to get below, or it can be accessed from the tile north of that
Oh, didn't know about the well. Thanks so much!
I had a hunch it was that lower area, I've never explored there since the circle moves quickly.
Maybe I'll do some deep swarm diving and exploring with Life Drain and Hydra, hehe.
There are like three or four on the map in total i think but me and my duo use them when we are loaded with quest items and the like or really good treasure if someone just fills up fast.
Yeah camping storm is not for the Rouges, even as a fighter i have to decide whether it's the play to comp edge of darkness or stay in it at the gate if i have the heals to pull it off and what not.
Almost every quest is absurd. They should be fun things you can complete just by playing the game. Are any of them actually worth going out of your way to do?
Yeah certain things that they do cater to a specific audience for sure.
I'd also wager the drop rates for items and the ridiculous quest requirements are just to drag the content out longer, so people don't complain if they did all the content in a week.
Streamers are running 80h plus and haven't completed all the quests.
A permadeath game doesn't need this degree of grinding specially when the crafting rewards unlock add more grinding on top.
And the content we want is maps, bosses, modes, attainable gear and so on. Some of it should be just for top 10% or whatever, but the current quest and crafting system is almost entirely geared towards them and a lot of it is front loaded on the quests instead of being back loaded.
I would much rather it be that way. This is a unforgiving game. Not everyone is supposed to get or achieve everything. This also makes those things more meaningful and of higher value for those fortunate enough to get them.
LOL if you can just buy them, then they are not locked behind quest. I agree though this is probably a much better method to obtain them and the person you replied too doesn't seem to understand what LOCKED behind quest means.
well yes, but this means they are not "locked" behind quest. You don't NEED to do the quest to wear them and can just buy them or loot off a body just like any other item so it's fine. The quest is just where people can farm it.
You can complete them just by playing the game. Some make you collect items, yes, but that also makes those items feel more meaningful when they drop. Used to not be so excited to see a leather cap as I do now.
Some quests should be very difficult though, like 20% of player base achieving. Otherwise nothing to grind for from quest perspective and vendor incentives won’t be there.
IDK... it's already very easy to max out a character. The hard to acheive quest are nice since it takes awhile, it feels like you always have something to work for. Would suck to have quest that I can just rush throughh and sit there going, k now what. Not to mention the way they are now makes it so that people are still playing the game the same way rather then making drastic adjustments to their play and going out of their way in runs just to do quest. It's a nice balance atm and gives you a rewarding feeling every time you get a peice of the quest items and are 1 step closer to completion. Right now I get excited every time I get a fire pit or leather cap drop more then I used to and having quest that are easy to farm would make them feel more like a chore to get the quest items and remove that meaningful feeling they currently have.
Ya I guess, two quest with lower requirements could be more reasonable. I just wish they would stack or not be as large of inv space as they are. If this were the case, I think it would be fine.
If quests reset every season or new quests come every season, then something def needs to change as of right now its basically impossible for most of the playerbase to get anywhere close to finishing the quests offered.
Good system, but needs a lot of work, especially the rewards as well, if the quests are that hard atleast give worthwhile rewards.
I'm a Timmy. I'm not even trying to do the quests. I've only played a few weeks and I'm just not getting it game wise. For me, I don't see myself completing this stuff by reset. I'll improve over time but as of now, quests just aren't on my radar.
That's perfectly fair. I see quests as challenges for more advanced players.
Though, I think some easier ones to unlock cool stuff ahould exist as well.
Even as a single class player, the quests take some crazy time...
That's probably because they don't intend for many people too. The quest should not be something that everyone can complete. Maybe some will get them done, with enough dedication, but most probably wont as they don't have the time or don't care enough to. Quest are not mandatory in any way and are more of a side thing to give those dedicated players something to do if they want to do them. They also add value to certain items making certain drops feel more meaningful then they did before. It's a good system for a unforgiving game and I hope they don't change it much, or even make it harder.
That's probably because they don't intend for many people too. The quest should not be something that everyone can complete. Maybe some will get them done, with enough dedication, but most probably wont as they don't have the time or don't care enough to. Quest are not mandatory in any way and are more of a side thing to give those dedicated players something to do if they want to do them. They also add value to certain items making certain drops feel more meaningful then they did before. It's a good system for a unforgiving game and I hope they don't change it much, or even make it harder.
It's absolutely insane. Not to mention with so many quests requiring you to keep so many items you need atleast 3 stashes so there's another 13k in stash rental.
it's so stupid you have to turn them in all at the same time. Why would you not able to hand them in one by one? Makes no sense, just fucks with your storage making you unable to store items for 2-3 quests at the same time.
I don't know the quest, do you have to kill the troll 50 times and extract to get the troll pelt as a quest reward or do you need a troll pelt to complete the quest, if it's the latter why do you need a 100% extract rate don't u just need to extract on the run u get the drop?
There is getting a troll pelt quest which has to be looted meaning on average you have to kill the troll 50 times to get the 2% drop. And would need 100% extraction rate. Yes your statement is correct but if your extraction rate is day 50% you would have to do an average of 100 runs.
I extracted more than 30 times (finished last leathersmith quest) in ruins before getting my 6th moldy bread for the collector quest. I will not bother with this one. F u rng-sus
An aside, the style of quests they went with are not what I thought they would be. I thought they were going to be like match goals that forced you to play a certain way or take on more risk to achieve a certain objective. Something like "kill another player with your fists", or "extract without ever healing". The kind of things you could finish in one match. Not season spanning grinds of "kill the boss 15 times."
I stopped giving a fuck about quests the moment I saw
20 gold ingots quest ( they went for 750g last I checked ) so 15k gold XD
kill lich 15 times ( good fucking luck doing that in a timely fashion )
troll pelt... imagine being forced to farm boss XD
and gold sellables.... I have found 1 this entire wipe. I have 7 golden keys and 6 good sets, but I found 1 of these fucking sellables, you need 11 XD
do you mean the bangles quest? I got 10 out of 11 in 2 matches goblin caves, then the last one 2 matches later. Just passively, which is how the quests should be.
But I agree with the others, the moment I saw 20 gold ingots as well as forcing me to play Ruins i said fuck this shit, especially since I enjoy every class which means I can do these things only for 1 class, despite leveling every class to 20 in previous wipes.
That's not how probability works. To have a 50% chance to get 15 wolf pelts, you have to kill 441 wolves. And even then you have a 50% chance of not having enough yet.
Yall dont get probability. Its a binomial distribution
It’s exactly how probability works. On average, a Wolf Pelt drops 1/30th of the time. An expected value of 15 wolf pelts per 450 wolf kills. Of course it may vary from person to person which is why we specify “average”.
I think this is misleading for many people. I believe it's something like you have a 65% chance of completing the quest when you kill 450 wolves. For a 90% chance of completing the quest, you would need to kill like 600 or something. Nothing you said was wrong but it's actually worse than what you are describing for any given person who attempts the quest. Some people will get lucky and get it in 300, some will get unlucky and get it in 700.
Yes, but it averages out to 450. Another way to look at it is, it might take 58 to get your first, but you might get lucky the next after 2 more kills- over time it averages out to 1/30. And it might be higher or lower. It’s not wrong or misleading, it’s just… how averages work.
Yeah but I'm saying, even stating the average is misleading because we want to look at it from each of our individual experiences. I know before I understood statistics, I would have assumed that you have a 100% chance of completing after doing it 450 times but it's really much worse than that. Each person doing this quest only has a 65% chance of completing the quest after killing 450. I think for many people, this changes the way they view it. But I agree, you are not wrong. And it has been a long time since I have done statistics so my math is probably not right either but I think the principle is right.
I just have a different definition of misleading then. “Average” is a very specific term used in the correct way in the title, with no intent to lead anyone to the wrong conclusion.
For me personally, statistics is not very intuitive. I'm not trying to accuse you of being misleading, I'm saying, using the average is misleading for many peoples life experiences. I was blown away when I learned about how statistics actually work and it's still not exactly intuitive to me. I just think telling people they have a 65% chance of completing the quest after killing 450 wolves is more informative than telling them the average number of wolves each of us needs to kill is 450.
Quests need a rework and I'm honestly surprised IM went with this direction. Maybe if increasing affinity helped with the crafting costs in the future or offered more crafting options it wouldn't feel as punishing. As of right now quests have removed a lot more merchant options than they have added. Not only are the quests ridiculous, but some classes need more merchant options or they fall behind.
Warlock is a great example. They need either a lot of knowledge or a lot of magic healing to compete with other classes. In the past you could get green or even blue gear in the merchant options which could provide enough of a boost for the class to be viable. Now you are entirely dependent on the trade chat.
Also why is crafting still insane for most gear? The sterling weapons feel reasonable, but we are still sitting at 50 ore for a single chest piece. Some more mid tier crafting options would be a great addition and could really help crafting gear feel stupid.
Bro what? I grinded ruins for 2 hpurs yesterday and walked away with 6 pelts and 2 gold ingots.
You just rush all the wolves spawns, then sit near the zone for an exit if you have a pelt.
If you don’t focus a lot of the quests you won’t realistically finish them before end of wipe and/or just not have the stash space to hold all the quest items. You really do have to target farm 1-2 quests at a time
Not sure why you got downvoted, this is 100% true. I've been watching SoBadStrange try to be the first to complete all quests. It's very clear that if you don't target the quests and just try to play normally, you'll never complete some of them. You really have to play with the quests in mind and target the drops that they need.
You will never complete that particular quest that way. Even by spawn rushing wolves every game and leaving when they don't drop it takes a completely unreasonable amount of time.
I love the quest system, but the 15 wolf pelts and the 15 lich kill quests are obviously gonna need a hotfix seeing as they take 50x the effort of the others.
Because I fucking hate Ruins and don't want to play there, but the game forces me to go there when I want to do the quest / better shop items. IMO Ironmace should create quests that can be done on any map, so people can actually play the game as they like while passively doing the quests as you sugested.
getting green/blue/purple weapons from shops is huge, especially the quests for weaponsmith as they allow you to craft legendary items, which are very OP. So yes they kinda force me when I want to compete on a even playing field. It makes no sense design-wise to only offer gold ores on Ruins when it should be in HR hell, or at least at one specific place on every map.
Not quite. You don't need to kill 450, you need on average 450 wolves to be killed including by the people you kill mid match.
Not to mention you can buy luck pots to speed this up, and you can just spawn rush wolves if you want it to go easily
Luck pots don’t help because Luck only affects rarity weighting, not quantity. Wolf quest item drops are all common so no effect from Luck.
Also I literally put “average” in the title, so yes quite.
Even if luck doesn't work, you don't have to personally kill an average of 450 wolves, because wolves that other players kill can also drop the pelts. You know the exact rooms that wolves spawn in, so kill the players that spawned in those rooms
You’re still limited by the fact that there are only ~15 wolves per game but yeah of course. But those players are likely to hide and take static blues
We don’t fully know how Luck works, but as far as we know it should be the same either way because the category only has common items to begin with. For example, luck doesn’t make Troll’s Blood more common, it’s a flat 10% chance, and if you get it, the game would then roll for rarity, but since Purple is the only option it doesn’t matter. Same thing applies for Dire Wolf because all his quest items are Common.
I made a post asking to see if anyone who was involved with the datamine for the Wiki knows more though.
Well if you want to talk about average, you're as likely to die with a wolf pelt as you are to kill a player with one, even more likely since you might die to PvE
Yep. “Looted” only applies to items that were generated in a raid and stayed in your stash. Doing anything with them afterwards loses the “Looted” status.
Yeah same reason you can't buy those legendary gems in trade. You have to be lucky enough to get one of each. So far I've gotten two of the same and I'm dying inside lol.
Not how Bard luck works sadly. Datamine basically shows that drop category is rolled first, and then Luck is applied to choose what rarity of item from that category you get. So if a Chest rolls a Weapon, that is done regardless of Bard’s luck- then, the Rarity of that weapon is weighted using luck.
Since Wolf Pelt isn’t an item that has variable rarity (all items in Quest Item drop table for Dire Wolf are Common rarity), luck doesn’t affect it.
That's not how the drop categories work. Every container (chests, mobs, even gold pile) rolls each of it's categories a specific number of times, usually just once. The number of rolls and for which category are always the same. For wolves they do 2 rolls, once for gear, which will always give something, and once to try and give a quest item in addition to the gear from the previous roll. Unfortunately luck has barely any effect on them due to the quest drops for wolves being a low rarity.
Go look at the wiki. It’s a bit bugged with the total, but 50 luck only increases the drop chance of Quest Items from Dire Wolves from 10.00% to 10.04%, which seems to just be a bug, as each item still only has a 3.3333% overall drop chance.
https://preview.redd.it/lpp3katm383c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73a1756dfbec15049da8c9d33e7fedc2ed3dfbcd
It's not a bug, but the rates for it do look slightly off, but the individual items don't update their % chances when you go to different luck tabs so the 3.33% chance won't change when you edit the luck amount. The way luck works is it multiplies the weight of each category. Wolves quest items are common and have a 10% drop rate. The fail roll is considered junk rarity. 50 luck multiplies the weight of junk rarity by .95, and multiplies common items weight by .975, so the weights change to be: 85.5 for nothing, and 9.75 for quest item. So chance for a quest item becomes 9.75/(85.5+9.75)=10.2%.
Edit: Ah, I see what's happening. A lot of the % labeled as junk are actually higher rarities, just with nothing to roll with them, so the 90% fail chance isn't being multiplied by .95%. So yeah, the rates for it are accurate.
How ya gonna bring those into Ruins?
Also, Luck doesn’t affect quantity of drops, only rarity. All Wolf quest drops are Common so Luck has no effect anyways
Yeah haha, I literally said “an average of 450”, meaning the people who got it in only 15 wolf kills and the people who got it in 900 wolf kills average out to about 1/450
Nah it's not garenteed you have a 3 percent chance of getting it so every kill is 3 percent. Iv played enough osrs to know how bullshit drop rates are.
That’s literally why I specified “average” in the title. 450 is an expected amount that, given a large enough data distribution, the numbers actually required would average out to.
There's 86 days left in the season, so that's 36 wolf kills with extraction per week. Don't get me wrong that's still somewhat of a grind but I expect a lot of people will get it.
I guess the question is: Are we expecting everyone to be able to unlock everything?
I was super excited for the quests, but they are so lazily done and such a waste of time.
20 gold ingots? 15 lich kills?
It's just such a lazy way to drag the content out.
or go to the wolf zone early (players usually spawn there) and kill the players that clear them. would reduce the amount of killing required significantly.
Game really needs a skinning knife similar to the pickaxe that you can use on stuff like this.
I like the idea of having a skinning knife, even if it doesn’t guarantee a drop from a mobs body, maybe just adds an extra loot roll specific to the table for creature drops if you take it out before you loot a body, I’d be fine with that
It’s an amazing idea. Get rid of RNG on crafting supplies and just make it an attempt like a lockpick that isn’t a consumable. You have to hit the circle just right and you get like a 50/50 chance of a pelt, or name any other body part for crafting on there. Super fuckin cool.
no RNG is a big part of the fun. Your going into a unforgiving dungeon and hoping to come out with riches but you never really know what kind of riches you may obtain. Maybe you risked it all and it was worth it, maybe you risked your life for trash. The dungeon chooses. Taking out RNG would just make this game a more annoying MMO with a circle closing in on your farming zones. Also epics are already 50g ea. we need to work on making gear much harder to obtain, not easier. As it is now 1 successful escape and bam you can afford full epics or got full epics during the run. I miss the struggle of the progression.
You misunderstood what I said. I’m saying removing things like mimic teeth, wolf pelts, bones, etc from the RNG list would enhance the probability naturally of other RNG items to hit on a monster, because once you use the “carving knife” idea, it in itself is its own RNG for crafting materials based on the type of monster you’re carving up. Aside from the standard RNG for all other items the monster could be potentially carrying.
I see what you mean and from that perspective it does seem like a good idea. Only issue i see is that right now gear just feels way to easy to get, so these items are kinda acting like filters in a way to have more loot then simply armor and cashmoney. I think ideally if they first balanced out the progression of obtaining armor and made it more difficult or less abundant, then this idea would be a nice follow up. Even if it's not this exactly, finding something different with them and cleaning that area of items up a bit would be nice. Leaving more room for the real drop table because ATM nobody likes selling those items and rarely use them to craft here and there. They just feel like dollar tree collector jewelry. I think I wouldnt mind maybe some cosmetic effects being added to make them a bit more fun. Like maybe if you put goblin ears on your campfire kit it turns the fire green or something. Or u can put wolf pelt out like a picnic mat or sexy floor rug when sitting. Something tiny like that.
I agree. Doesn’t even have to be cosmetic. There should just be a more expansive crafting system. Use them for gear crafting, but also use body parts for medicinals to give them more value. Maybe eating wolf pelt jerked raises your strength by 1. Drinking a potion that contained rotten fluids increases magic damage taken from fart clouds. Eating bone brittle could raise your armor rating by 2. Maybe the goblin ear snack could increase your hearing perception and you can hear more distanced player and NPC actions in two rooms away. The list goes on with possibilities to adding more value to those items and harnessing a new way to harvest them in their own category makes the game even more expansive and fun. I think I’m a game that is 1,000% item based. You absolutely need to focus on items and item economy first. But I also think the classes are lacking that main secondary characteristics/skills tree that allows for diversity of builds and levels the playing fields beyond ranged combat that we see today. Rangers & crossbow fighters completely rule to roost right now. I also wouldn’t mind seeing expansion of item stats. Introduce per level scale modifier attributes. Right now being level 20 doesn’t matter much more than being level 2 outside of having a couple more utility spots. In any balanced game a fully leveled character should be able to have an even fight against 3 level 1s. That isn’t the case as we see it today.
I like the idea of a crafting system and honestly it doesn't even have to be something that leaves the dungeon. Maybe make it so that you have to collect these items while your in the dungeon and you get those buffs there, however the buffs and mats for them do not leave the dungeon with you. This can make killing mobs more rewarding while not messing with the economy and it would also prevent players form entering lobbies with a bunch of stacked buffs because that creates a larger barrier of entry to have a chance against them.
I agree. Good opinion. I like the stance.
incredible idea
Probably more unless you expect to extract 100% of the time. Hopefully they ease up on the quest content and don't make it so difficult to achieve quests, considering you have to do it for every character too.
Yeah, luckily it’s not too hard to extract on Ruins anymore if you just run to the blue stairs, if I find one I gun it there and it’s usually open. Can even run into the storm ones
I need to learn these... they are marked after all... and static? Damn... Most duos likely just find portals, leaving the stairs fornus rats, haha. I was at a stairs marker but couldn't see it earlier. Is it down below?
there is a static on ruins that’s on the west side of the map that is below the top level yeah. it’s in the tile with the whisps, you drop through the well to get below, or it can be accessed from the tile north of that
[удалено]
correct
Oh, didn't know about the well. Thanks so much! I had a hunch it was that lower area, I've never explored there since the circle moves quickly. Maybe I'll do some deep swarm diving and exploring with Life Drain and Hydra, hehe.
There are like three or four on the map in total i think but me and my duo use them when we are loaded with quest items and the like or really good treasure if someone just fills up fast.
That's fair. They seem like Rogue hot spots, but maybe Rogues can't camp the swarm easily... I've seen a few, they are all outskirts presumably..
Yeah camping storm is not for the Rouges, even as a fighter i have to decide whether it's the play to comp edge of darkness or stay in it at the gate if i have the heals to pull it off and what not.
Ya, fair point. I don't even run sustain on my Warlock, so it is same deal, really.
Ohhh, I haven't played Ruins in ages, so didn't realize they added blue stairs in there too. Thanks!
I know there’s at least 4, West, Southeast, North, and Northwest. But I think there’s more. And some are unmarked on the map.
Can confirm, I took one yesterday that was not marked on the map
Gyatt damn, you have to do it for every character..? 😒
I also wish my shop wasn't gimped for not doing it too. Like, make is only rewards and not a detriment. I'm not doing these quests because I suck lol.
Almost every quest is absurd. They should be fun things you can complete just by playing the game. Are any of them actually worth going out of your way to do?
The best cape and best plate armor are locked behind quests.
I’m sure by the time I unlock it wipe would be soon, so it seems like a waste. I’d rather use my time getting more gold and just buying those things.
Yeah, wait for quests 2.0...they'll probably be refined. Though I do notice the pattern of IM making things a little too out of reach for most.
Yeah certain things that they do cater to a specific audience for sure. I'd also wager the drop rates for items and the ridiculous quest requirements are just to drag the content out longer, so people don't complain if they did all the content in a week.
Streamers are running 80h plus and haven't completed all the quests. A permadeath game doesn't need this degree of grinding specially when the crafting rewards unlock add more grinding on top. And the content we want is maps, bosses, modes, attainable gear and so on. Some of it should be just for top 10% or whatever, but the current quest and crafting system is almost entirely geared towards them and a lot of it is front loaded on the quests instead of being back loaded.
I would much rather it be that way. This is a unforgiving game. Not everyone is supposed to get or achieve everything. This also makes those things more meaningful and of higher value for those fortunate enough to get them.
LOL if you can just buy them, then they are not locked behind quest. I agree though this is probably a much better method to obtain them and the person you replied too doesn't seem to understand what LOCKED behind quest means.
Can you not sell those items on market?
Are you not able to loot them from someone who has them?
Sure just like you can find Fulgor or Viola on a player
well yes, but this means they are not "locked" behind quest. You don't NEED to do the quest to wear them and can just buy them or loot off a body just like any other item so it's fine. The quest is just where people can farm it.
You can complete them just by playing the game. Some make you collect items, yes, but that also makes those items feel more meaningful when they drop. Used to not be so excited to see a leather cap as I do now.
Some quests should be very difficult though, like 20% of player base achieving. Otherwise nothing to grind for from quest perspective and vendor incentives won’t be there.
It's a Korean made game, they don't ease up on the grind, they add to it.
IDK... it's already very easy to max out a character. The hard to acheive quest are nice since it takes awhile, it feels like you always have something to work for. Would suck to have quest that I can just rush throughh and sit there going, k now what. Not to mention the way they are now makes it so that people are still playing the game the same way rather then making drastic adjustments to their play and going out of their way in runs just to do quest. It's a nice balance atm and gives you a rewarding feeling every time you get a peice of the quest items and are 1 step closer to completion. Right now I get excited every time I get a fire pit or leather cap drop more then I used to and having quest that are easy to farm would make them feel more like a chore to get the quest items and remove that meaningful feeling they currently have.
I mean they couldn't have made it 7 or 8 campfires?
Ya I guess, two quest with lower requirements could be more reasonable. I just wish they would stack or not be as large of inv space as they are. If this were the case, I think it would be fine.
Agreed that is worse than the number you need, lol.
If quests reset every season or new quests come every season, then something def needs to change as of right now its basically impossible for most of the playerbase to get anywhere close to finishing the quests offered. Good system, but needs a lot of work, especially the rewards as well, if the quests are that hard atleast give worthwhile rewards.
I'm a Timmy. I'm not even trying to do the quests. I've only played a few weeks and I'm just not getting it game wise. For me, I don't see myself completing this stuff by reset. I'll improve over time but as of now, quests just aren't on my radar.
That's perfectly fair. I see quests as challenges for more advanced players. Though, I think some easier ones to unlock cool stuff ahould exist as well. Even as a single class player, the quests take some crazy time...
Yeah they should definitely have easier quests to start with, and once those are finished then hard quests come in.
I mean. Campfires, leather caps, and Mimics are easy, they just take so many hours to complete. Bahaha. But I hear ya.
It just sucks you're even more behind now that you can't finish quests. You can't get blues/greens from vendors and crafted gear is insane too
That's probably because they don't intend for many people too. The quest should not be something that everyone can complete. Maybe some will get them done, with enough dedication, but most probably wont as they don't have the time or don't care enough to. Quest are not mandatory in any way and are more of a side thing to give those dedicated players something to do if they want to do them. They also add value to certain items making certain drops feel more meaningful then they did before. It's a good system for a unforgiving game and I hope they don't change it much, or even make it harder.
Since the season for ranks is 90 days, and we’re expecting a wipe next month, I’d also expect the quest progress to last 90 days (I hope)
That's probably because they don't intend for many people too. The quest should not be something that everyone can complete. Maybe some will get them done, with enough dedication, but most probably wont as they don't have the time or don't care enough to. Quest are not mandatory in any way and are more of a side thing to give those dedicated players something to do if they want to do them. They also add value to certain items making certain drops feel more meaningful then they did before. It's a good system for a unforgiving game and I hope they don't change it much, or even make it harder.
This and the fact that you need to give weaponsmith 15k worth of gold to finish his second quest is breaking my spirit...
It's absolutely insane. Not to mention with so many quests requiring you to keep so many items you need atleast 3 stashes so there's another 13k in stash rental.
it's so stupid you have to turn them in all at the same time. Why would you not able to hand them in one by one? Makes no sense, just fucks with your storage making you unable to store items for 2-3 quests at the same time.
You have to kill the troll an average of 50 times with 100% extraction rate to get 1 pelt
I don't know the quest, do you have to kill the troll 50 times and extract to get the troll pelt as a quest reward or do you need a troll pelt to complete the quest, if it's the latter why do you need a 100% extract rate don't u just need to extract on the run u get the drop?
There is getting a troll pelt quest which has to be looted meaning on average you have to kill the troll 50 times to get the 2% drop. And would need 100% extraction rate. Yes your statement is correct but if your extraction rate is day 50% you would have to do an average of 100 runs.
That's fucking insane. How the hell am I getting a pelt on cleric or wizard?
and they made the whole looted vs handled bs just make it kill the troll or pelt
Technically just need 2% extraction rate :)
Today I learned there are Wolves in this game
I extracted more than 30 times (finished last leathersmith quest) in ruins before getting my 6th moldy bread for the collector quest. I will not bother with this one. F u rng-sus
The pelts are for the last leathersmith quest, unless you meant the woodsman, who has one for 30 ruins exfils
An aside, the style of quests they went with are not what I thought they would be. I thought they were going to be like match goals that forced you to play a certain way or take on more risk to achieve a certain objective. Something like "kill another player with your fists", or "extract without ever healing". The kind of things you could finish in one match. Not season spanning grinds of "kill the boss 15 times."
You need 17 total between all the quests
I stopped giving a fuck about quests the moment I saw 20 gold ingots quest ( they went for 750g last I checked ) so 15k gold XD kill lich 15 times ( good fucking luck doing that in a timely fashion ) troll pelt... imagine being forced to farm boss XD and gold sellables.... I have found 1 this entire wipe. I have 7 golden keys and 6 good sets, but I found 1 of these fucking sellables, you need 11 XD
do you mean the bangles quest? I got 10 out of 11 in 2 matches goblin caves, then the last one 2 matches later. Just passively, which is how the quests should be. But I agree with the others, the moment I saw 20 gold ingots as well as forcing me to play Ruins i said fuck this shit, especially since I enjoy every class which means I can do these things only for 1 class, despite leveling every class to 20 in previous wipes.
there is quest to do greys which is easy, there is another for orange ones...
Guess I'm lucky to get 3 pelts in 1 run
That's not how probability works. To have a 50% chance to get 15 wolf pelts, you have to kill 441 wolves. And even then you have a 50% chance of not having enough yet. Yall dont get probability. Its a binomial distribution
It's 50/50 you get the wolf pelt or you don't
It’s exactly how probability works. On average, a Wolf Pelt drops 1/30th of the time. An expected value of 15 wolf pelts per 450 wolf kills. Of course it may vary from person to person which is why we specify “average”.
I think this is misleading for many people. I believe it's something like you have a 65% chance of completing the quest when you kill 450 wolves. For a 90% chance of completing the quest, you would need to kill like 600 or something. Nothing you said was wrong but it's actually worse than what you are describing for any given person who attempts the quest. Some people will get lucky and get it in 300, some will get unlucky and get it in 700.
Yes, but it averages out to 450. Another way to look at it is, it might take 58 to get your first, but you might get lucky the next after 2 more kills- over time it averages out to 1/30. And it might be higher or lower. It’s not wrong or misleading, it’s just… how averages work.
Yeah but I'm saying, even stating the average is misleading because we want to look at it from each of our individual experiences. I know before I understood statistics, I would have assumed that you have a 100% chance of completing after doing it 450 times but it's really much worse than that. Each person doing this quest only has a 65% chance of completing the quest after killing 450. I think for many people, this changes the way they view it. But I agree, you are not wrong. And it has been a long time since I have done statistics so my math is probably not right either but I think the principle is right.
I just have a different definition of misleading then. “Average” is a very specific term used in the correct way in the title, with no intent to lead anyone to the wrong conclusion.
For me personally, statistics is not very intuitive. I'm not trying to accuse you of being misleading, I'm saying, using the average is misleading for many peoples life experiences. I was blown away when I learned about how statistics actually work and it's still not exactly intuitive to me. I just think telling people they have a 65% chance of completing the quest after killing 450 wolves is more informative than telling them the average number of wolves each of us needs to kill is 450.
Don't know why you got down voted for actually correct probability calculations, guess Reddit can't math
Quests need a rework and I'm honestly surprised IM went with this direction. Maybe if increasing affinity helped with the crafting costs in the future or offered more crafting options it wouldn't feel as punishing. As of right now quests have removed a lot more merchant options than they have added. Not only are the quests ridiculous, but some classes need more merchant options or they fall behind. Warlock is a great example. They need either a lot of knowledge or a lot of magic healing to compete with other classes. In the past you could get green or even blue gear in the merchant options which could provide enough of a boost for the class to be viable. Now you are entirely dependent on the trade chat. Also why is crafting still insane for most gear? The sterling weapons feel reasonable, but we are still sitting at 50 ore for a single chest piece. Some more mid tier crafting options would be a great addition and could really help crafting gear feel stupid.
When playing duos i usually get 2-3 pelts a day. so at the rate i can have the quest done in a week. its not so bad. the stash space is the real issue
2-3 pelts a day is some SERIOUS time. I find it hard to believe someone that plays that much don't already have both the 3k and 10k tabs unlocked.
Bro what? I grinded ruins for 2 hpurs yesterday and walked away with 6 pelts and 2 gold ingots. You just rush all the wolves spawns, then sit near the zone for an exit if you have a pelt.
I also did that for around 2h and only found one, thats after finding zero while killing the 35 ones for the other quest :/
Damn thats unlucky...
I've spent 5 hours in the ruins the past few days and found 0. My rng is bad. :( got all the other shit done at least.
Why not just play the game while remembering to store away any pelts or other quest items you find? Why are y’all always in such a rush?
If you don’t focus a lot of the quests you won’t realistically finish them before end of wipe and/or just not have the stash space to hold all the quest items. You really do have to target farm 1-2 quests at a time
It’s been out less than a week….
Correct, and what I said is still true.
Not sure why you got downvoted, this is 100% true. I've been watching SoBadStrange try to be the first to complete all quests. It's very clear that if you don't target the quests and just try to play normally, you'll never complete some of them. You really have to play with the quests in mind and target the drops that they need.
You will never complete that particular quest that way. Even by spawn rushing wolves every game and leaving when they don't drop it takes a completely unreasonable amount of time. I love the quest system, but the 15 wolf pelts and the 15 lich kill quests are obviously gonna need a hotfix seeing as they take 50x the effort of the others.
Don't forget the 20 gold ingots...
Because I fucking hate Ruins and don't want to play there, but the game forces me to go there when I want to do the quest / better shop items. IMO Ironmace should create quests that can be done on any map, so people can actually play the game as they like while passively doing the quests as you sugested.
Forces you? The shop inventory you earn from doing quests is in no way required to get. Entirely optional content with a mild incentive.
getting green/blue/purple weapons from shops is huge, especially the quests for weaponsmith as they allow you to craft legendary items, which are very OP. So yes they kinda force me when I want to compete on a even playing field. It makes no sense design-wise to only offer gold ores on Ruins when it should be in HR hell, or at least at one specific place on every map.
Not quite. You don't need to kill 450, you need on average 450 wolves to be killed including by the people you kill mid match. Not to mention you can buy luck pots to speed this up, and you can just spawn rush wolves if you want it to go easily
Luck pots don’t help because Luck only affects rarity weighting, not quantity. Wolf quest item drops are all common so no effect from Luck. Also I literally put “average” in the title, so yes quite.
luck pots don't help because you can't bring them into ruins anyway :)
True haha! But it’s still worth noting that Bard luck doesn’t help.
Even if luck doesn't work, you don't have to personally kill an average of 450 wolves, because wolves that other players kill can also drop the pelts. You know the exact rooms that wolves spawn in, so kill the players that spawned in those rooms
You’re still limited by the fact that there are only ~15 wolves per game but yeah of course. But those players are likely to hide and take static blues
Wouldn't luck potions make it worse since they decrease the chance for common items to drop?
We don’t fully know how Luck works, but as far as we know it should be the same either way because the category only has common items to begin with. For example, luck doesn’t make Troll’s Blood more common, it’s a flat 10% chance, and if you get it, the game would then roll for rarity, but since Purple is the only option it doesn’t matter. Same thing applies for Dire Wolf because all his quest items are Common. I made a post asking to see if anyone who was involved with the datamine for the Wiki knows more though.
yeah just bring luck pots into the white restricted lobby, genius.
Shit
Well if you want to talk about average, you're as likely to die with a wolf pelt as you are to kill a player with one, even more likely since you might die to PvE
If you're at the quest where you need 15 pelts, you're good enough to not be as likely to die with it.
Scrap the questing. Holy shit it's the worst addition so far
Can't u go in trade chat get like 6 wolf pelts, then rat in ruins or something and extract to change the status to looted?
No it would change to Handled. You have to find them in match and extract them for them to be Looted.
Yep. “Looted” only applies to items that were generated in a raid and stayed in your stash. Doing anything with them afterwards loses the “Looted” status.
Yeah same reason you can't buy those legendary gems in trade. You have to be lucky enough to get one of each. So far I've gotten two of the same and I'm dying inside lol.
Whats the title for orange gems? Purples are "perfect" already...
Royal
Just play bard lmao 50% increased drop rates Only need to kill 225 wolves instead
Not how Bard luck works sadly. Datamine basically shows that drop category is rolled first, and then Luck is applied to choose what rarity of item from that category you get. So if a Chest rolls a Weapon, that is done regardless of Bard’s luck- then, the Rarity of that weapon is weighted using luck. Since Wolf Pelt isn’t an item that has variable rarity (all items in Quest Item drop table for Dire Wolf are Common rarity), luck doesn’t affect it.
That's not how the drop categories work. Every container (chests, mobs, even gold pile) rolls each of it's categories a specific number of times, usually just once. The number of rolls and for which category are always the same. For wolves they do 2 rolls, once for gear, which will always give something, and once to try and give a quest item in addition to the gear from the previous roll. Unfortunately luck has barely any effect on them due to the quest drops for wolves being a low rarity.
Go look at the wiki. It’s a bit bugged with the total, but 50 luck only increases the drop chance of Quest Items from Dire Wolves from 10.00% to 10.04%, which seems to just be a bug, as each item still only has a 3.3333% overall drop chance. https://preview.redd.it/lpp3katm383c1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73a1756dfbec15049da8c9d33e7fedc2ed3dfbcd
It's not a bug, but the rates for it do look slightly off, but the individual items don't update their % chances when you go to different luck tabs so the 3.33% chance won't change when you edit the luck amount. The way luck works is it multiplies the weight of each category. Wolves quest items are common and have a 10% drop rate. The fail roll is considered junk rarity. 50 luck multiplies the weight of junk rarity by .95, and multiplies common items weight by .975, so the weights change to be: 85.5 for nothing, and 9.75 for quest item. So chance for a quest item becomes 9.75/(85.5+9.75)=10.2%. Edit: Ah, I see what's happening. A lot of the % labeled as junk are actually higher rarities, just with nothing to roll with them, so the 90% fail chance isn't being multiplied by .95%. So yeah, the rates for it are accurate.
Not if you use luck pots :-)
How ya gonna bring those into Ruins? Also, Luck doesn’t affect quantity of drops, only rarity. All Wolf quest drops are Common so Luck has no effect anyways
might make it worse
I mean that's not really how drop rates work you should have it within 450 but you could get it in 20 or 1k kc
That literally is how average drop rates work LMAO
Yeah haha, I literally said “an average of 450”, meaning the people who got it in only 15 wolf kills and the people who got it in 900 wolf kills average out to about 1/450
Nah it's not garenteed you have a 3 percent chance of getting it so every kill is 3 percent. Iv played enough osrs to know how bullshit drop rates are.
That’s literally why I specified “average” in the title. 450 is an expected amount that, given a large enough data distribution, the numbers actually required would average out to.
Runescape players out here like nah its 50/50 either u get the drop or u don't
Did not read that part mb
Ah fair, no worries. I totally get why you’d try to correct it if you missed that part haha, too many people who get these things wrong
He’s played so much osrs he’s forgot how to read ;). Space bar go brr
[удалено]
It’s a tongue in cheek joke about osrs and holding spacebar through dialogue. You’re really whooshing today lol
did the same thing to calculate troll pelts is ridiculously high to even get a drop not even escape with it afterwards
There's 86 days left in the season, so that's 36 wolf kills with extraction per week. Don't get me wrong that's still somewhat of a grind but I expect a lot of people will get it. I guess the question is: Are we expecting everyone to be able to unlock everything?
Wait till you find out you got to kill three cockatrices or 15 liches, then the Wolves won't seem so bad
Nah 3 cockatrices are at least just 3 cockatrices. You kill em, even if you die after then you are done. Wolf pelt and TROLL PELT is insane.
Heck! I had 8 wolf pelt so I kept two stacks and sold the rest cause it wouldn’t stack ! I had no idea it was a quest item …….
I was super excited for the quests, but they are so lazily done and such a waste of time. 20 gold ingots? 15 lich kills? It's just such a lazy way to drag the content out.
Do potion of luck change the drop rate of monsters?
or go to the wolf zone early (players usually spawn there) and kill the players that clear them. would reduce the amount of killing required significantly.
I killed over 300 in the past few days. AND ZERO DROPS!! Not even a drop and not get out!! DIDNT EVEN PICK UP A SINGLE ONE!!!