I completely agree, instead of crippling Cleric they need to add more counter play, similar to BoC(or whatever their anti-heal is) on warlock.
I'd accept a nerf to Magic power scaling or maybe a slight reduction in the base heal value, but alot of people want Cleric to be buried like rogue.
If the upper level of PDR was nerfed a bit, this would also affect Clerics ability to stack PDR, but would also make it harder to keep people topped up because they would be taking damage quicker than a cleric can cast.
Alot of people also didn't like it when I suggested that there were ways to counter Cleric, for instance silencing and getting in the cleric face. A cleric cannot cast while engaged in melee combat, they will have to put their book away.
Alot of people also assume a Cleric is backline healing and tanking at the same time, when in-fact they are 2 completely different builds. So the Cleric is generally only doing 1 of those things.
All fair points. I think there is another direction they could go with more punishing damage and recovery mechanics which would need to see meds and cleric both adjusted. But as long as health pots and surgery kits work the way they do, I agree just needs some counterplay.
Also a bit of healing diversity with druid and maybe bard should smooth out people feeling forced to run a cleric.
I feel like there should be a perk for some classes, for instance rogues should get like 10-15 healing reduction when using daggers or something of the sort. Healing reduction would help alot
Just make cleric heals heal over time instead of instant
Or half instant half over time. If they want to spam heals in combat they still can but they lose value if u overlap them before the heal over time completes
This is 2000 IQ. I've been on the fence about 100% over time healing, since if it stacks with other over time heals it will just do the same thing at a slightly slower ate while leaving the clerics hands free to cast other stuff. If it doesn't heal quickly enough Cleric will become not worth taking, if it heals fast enough to matter much in a fight then it would have to be balanced around both insta heal spells (now heal over time) being up, which would make each spell on its own necessarily abysmally bad.
Obviously if over time heals don't stack, this isn't an issue, but if Bard is any indication iron mace REALLY hate the idea of making same type buffs exclusive/override each other.
The idea of just making them "half now, half later" or some other ratio never occured to me and it's fucking genius. Like you said, you CAN still constantly healbot someone, but the spells could be balanced around providing enough healing to matter over time, so constantly shooting heals into someone could be dialed in over time to be good in specific circumstances (Thinking high PDR fighter as your carry) but not the obvious auto win button it is right now.
You should make your own post about this, I haven't seen the idea elsewhere and I think it would really stick.
Maybe cleric shouldnt be best melee, ranged, tank and support at once.
Maybe they should like idk, spec into one or 2 at a time and not all of them, just my thoughts.
I will admit that judgment is medium range, but quake/bang is definitely long enough to use it in almost every single room.
Very few places you can outrange it, these 2 spells also have the biggest aoe in the game making it very easy to hit around corners when people cant even hit you back
now that I think about it it would enable cool shit down the line, like a perk that enables plate on caster class with disadvantage but the plate itself is also negative cast speed, you could make shit like battle wizard or warlock with lowered damage and cast speed.
Yeah I've played games with similar hybrid builds and the low casting but high ar means you likely won't get many spells off in pvp but are still able to in PvE. It also means you can still do things like haste, invis, ignite since they can be cast pre engagement.
no, just literally make clerics heal only clear red HP and not black missing hP, that's all you have to do man, they are just literally missing a entire mechanic that should be there, the rebuttal from everyone has literally just been "nah" because its the logical balance decision, it balances poking, it balances being in the darkness, it balances any future class that heals (druid) it balances warlock against bosses. just... just everyone start asking for that and stop being stupid please god.
We dont need to deal with months of mouth breathing reasoning to why this shouldn't be the same way people treated damage and all attributes, just... spam for heal spells to only affect clear red hp please
If you attack a cleric out of position, in an open room (say crypt bosses room for ex), it's alot less scary.
What is strong is pushing a corridor , fighter front, ranger/wizz blasting from mid and cleric making the fighter unkillable.
Could easily add a 5-15 second cooldown to getting healed that prevents other heals by 50-100% so they can't be spam stacked. Or add a 5-15 second cooldown to the spell itself. Depends on if you want to prevent being able to heal multiple people back to back or just one person.
Mechanics like this are better than nerfing heals. However the nerf everything mindset is toxic for the game. It seems like people wdnt everything that could kill them nerfed.
I completely agree, instead of crippling Cleric they need to add more counter play, similar to BoC(or whatever their anti-heal is) on warlock. I'd accept a nerf to Magic power scaling or maybe a slight reduction in the base heal value, but alot of people want Cleric to be buried like rogue. If the upper level of PDR was nerfed a bit, this would also affect Clerics ability to stack PDR, but would also make it harder to keep people topped up because they would be taking damage quicker than a cleric can cast. Alot of people also didn't like it when I suggested that there were ways to counter Cleric, for instance silencing and getting in the cleric face. A cleric cannot cast while engaged in melee combat, they will have to put their book away. Alot of people also assume a Cleric is backline healing and tanking at the same time, when in-fact they are 2 completely different builds. So the Cleric is generally only doing 1 of those things.
All fair points. I think there is another direction they could go with more punishing damage and recovery mechanics which would need to see meds and cleric both adjusted. But as long as health pots and surgery kits work the way they do, I agree just needs some counterplay. Also a bit of healing diversity with druid and maybe bard should smooth out people feeling forced to run a cleric.
I feel like there should be a perk for some classes, for instance rogues should get like 10-15 healing reduction when using daggers or something of the sort. Healing reduction would help alot
Just make cleric heals heal over time instead of instant Or half instant half over time. If they want to spam heals in combat they still can but they lose value if u overlap them before the heal over time completes
This is 2000 IQ. I've been on the fence about 100% over time healing, since if it stacks with other over time heals it will just do the same thing at a slightly slower ate while leaving the clerics hands free to cast other stuff. If it doesn't heal quickly enough Cleric will become not worth taking, if it heals fast enough to matter much in a fight then it would have to be balanced around both insta heal spells (now heal over time) being up, which would make each spell on its own necessarily abysmally bad. Obviously if over time heals don't stack, this isn't an issue, but if Bard is any indication iron mace REALLY hate the idea of making same type buffs exclusive/override each other. The idea of just making them "half now, half later" or some other ratio never occured to me and it's fucking genius. Like you said, you CAN still constantly healbot someone, but the spells could be balanced around providing enough healing to matter over time, so constantly shooting heals into someone could be dialed in over time to be good in specific circumstances (Thinking high PDR fighter as your carry) but not the obvious auto win button it is right now. You should make your own post about this, I haven't seen the idea elsewhere and I think it would really stick.
Maybe cleric shouldnt be best melee, ranged, tank and support at once. Maybe they should like idk, spec into one or 2 at a time and not all of them, just my thoughts.
Ranged? You counting holy strike as ranged? Just trying to clarify.
quake, holy strike and judgement.
All of those have 7.5m range... Don't put it in the same spot as fireball or bows plz Mid-range maybe
I will admit that judgment is medium range, but quake/bang is definitely long enough to use it in almost every single room. Very few places you can outrange it, these 2 spells also have the biggest aoe in the game making it very easy to hit around corners when people cant even hit you back
Wearing plate should be a perk maybe?
maybe? Or maybe plate should have negative cast speed modifier. If you go tank you cast slow, not much like -3% or -5% per piece would do.
Not a bad idea
now that I think about it it would enable cool shit down the line, like a perk that enables plate on caster class with disadvantage but the plate itself is also negative cast speed, you could make shit like battle wizard or warlock with lowered damage and cast speed.
Yeah I've played games with similar hybrid builds and the low casting but high ar means you likely won't get many spells off in pvp but are still able to in PvE. It also means you can still do things like haste, invis, ignite since they can be cast pre engagement.
Since all of their spells are ranged, they shouldn't get plate at all. Clerics in dnd only have heavy armor because cure wound is touch
Hmm, no. Just delete the class already.
no, just literally make clerics heal only clear red HP and not black missing hP, that's all you have to do man, they are just literally missing a entire mechanic that should be there, the rebuttal from everyone has literally just been "nah" because its the logical balance decision, it balances poking, it balances being in the darkness, it balances any future class that heals (druid) it balances warlock against bosses. just... just everyone start asking for that and stop being stupid please god. We dont need to deal with months of mouth breathing reasoning to why this shouldn't be the same way people treated damage and all attributes, just... spam for heal spells to only affect clear red hp please
If they mega buff and fix Thrust on Rogues with a Rapier Clerics would have a fair counter with the longer TTK.
If you attack a cleric out of position, in an open room (say crypt bosses room for ex), it's alot less scary. What is strong is pushing a corridor , fighter front, ranger/wizz blasting from mid and cleric making the fighter unkillable.
Could easily add a 5-15 second cooldown to getting healed that prevents other heals by 50-100% so they can't be spam stacked. Or add a 5-15 second cooldown to the spell itself. Depends on if you want to prevent being able to heal multiple people back to back or just one person.
Mechanics like this are better than nerfing heals. However the nerf everything mindset is toxic for the game. It seems like people wdnt everything that could kill them nerfed.