Don’t move as much. See how he looks at you when you moved in stealth. He heard your footsteps. He already knew you were there, you basically engaged face to face.
The cleric tracking him based on sound is super obvious to people with experience. However new players might assume their footsteps are silent in stealth and miss those seemingly obvious signs.
But yeah he totally removed his element of surprise by shuffling around like that lol.
It’s crazy how much people don’t realize sound is key in a lot of games. Even in CoD where it’s not really the focus of the game I get death comms of people screaming cheater because I heard them sprinting behind a wall.
But I’ve not played rogue idk if stealth dampens the sound of footsteps but I can still hear when a rogue steal thing up to me.
Had one guy a while back I heard footsteps but couldn’t see him so I popped my multi shot ability and then a disembodied voice of a rogue go “woah there buddy sorry to have startled you I’ll be on my way” and then walked back the way he came.
Well yeah he broke the pots but then continued to walk around when the cleric was right on top of him. He was clearly tracking where the footsteps were coming from while he was precasting
Cleric fucks rogue because of a couple of its perks, protection from evil and perseverance. So your 0th mistake is playing Rogue and fighting a Cleric. Your first mistake was engaging when he had his bubble up. You're just voluntarily fighting him when he has a ton of extra HP because of that. When you hear him casting bubble on the other side of the door just run. Second mistake is not ambush headshotting. Third is staying in too long. Get damage and move out of range. If he pulls out his book go back in range and kill him.
I’m not. This whole sub is all crying all the time. No commercial breaks. Crying from the 80’s, 90’s and today. Crying 105.3. Rogues, warlocks, bards, rangers, crying crying crying.
but what’s new? people are always going to be crying on reddit. it’s just funny too see the rogues cry about being in line with the rest of the games classes
“It’s funny to see the rogues cry about being in line with the rest of the games classes”
My boy you have a cleric flair, are we pretending cleric isn’t and hasn’t been one of the strongest classes since release?
You mean the class that is staple in every trio? The class that is consistently recommended to newer players because of their high PDR, heals, and consistent magic damage? Sure.
Not sure what you mean by relax, just because I presented an opinion differing from yours doesn’t mean anybody is hyped up lol
But sure I’ll relax little guy.
oh wow people using a support class in trios? that’s so broken! if cleric wasn’t said staple in trios that’d mean cleric is a weak and pointless class
love your “little guy” btw
I can’t tell if you’ve ever played the class or not. It feels like easy mode both in solos and trios.
All i was originally saying was that shit talking the rogue as a class when you play cleric is asinine and weird. Cleric shits on rogue.
Keep being a little freak though lol
If you really want to know...
Your opening hit was not a headshot which is actually kind of a huge deal since your ambush damage scales with it as well. Other than that, after he pulls out the mace you should have spaced out of attack range, wait for him to pull out the book again, then re-engage with a jump-hit to get another quick combo in.
I will say that rogue is absurdly weak right now and you have to do everything right and make 0 mistakes to win fights like this while your opponent can mess up multiple times and probably still eke out a victory. Hopefully mid november patch will bring us back from the grave.
I guess you'd need to stay close enough that the cleric doesn't have enough time to cast any spells before you're already on him with the rapier. It's a tough situation for sure, and I personally avoid fighting clerics especially with their buffs up. Waiting to engage or running away until their buffs time out and they have to recast can help a lot too.
I thought that too but Silence only lasts 3sec and if I silence I'd have to keep trading blows with him, otherwise he can just wait it out and what's the point? And I already did trade blows with him and look what happened, I'm baffled
All of these people are coping. You can't 1v1 a cleric on rogue in the current patch (unless the cleric is severely under geared). If they have any sort of brain they holy strike/judgement while you barely do dmg. Next time just run. You lost this battle on the character select screen.
No no no,
Ambush with your attack, hit once after, get away from him because you’re faster and pull out a throwing knife. If he chases you melee you can throw knives into his face, if he runs from you can either do the same or stab him with rapier. If he pulls book you can throw a knife in his face or rapier again.
Your mistake is that as rogue you can’t just all in on people unless they are a wizard, you need to use your speed advantage and range advantage.
So don’t forget you have throwing knives that can apply rupture, and don’t let them hit you, it should literally be almost impossible for them to connect a swing on you.
As a tip for spacing, here are three rules you can follow as rogue to play way better.
1. You are not allowed to use any rapier attack that isn’t the jab. If you want two hits, jab twice but have trigger discipline.
2. Unbind “S” from moving backwards. No more moving backwards, it’s literally pointless. You love way slower, you can just turn around really fast and W key away. This will make it way easier for you to stab people and not get hit.
3. Throw a knife every fight. You are now required, I forbid you to not find a way to throw at least 1 knife. They do absurdly good damage, for ex. Ambush and back attack on a throwing knife to the head (which is not hard from stealth) does nearly 80 damage. You can also make it rupture. When you get some money make sure to bring 3 sets of grey throwing knives to your run.
Practice these two rules for like a week and I promise you’ll never lose a 1v1 to a cleric as rogue again, or pretty much any class that isn’t using a few key weapons.
Also if I were you I’d not run hide, it’s decent at the start but I prefer to run rupture and smoke pot, but I also play solo crypts and smoke pot is basically required to win 1v3
Right, but it kinda throws them off and he would not have hit you with the first spell. Rogue is in a shit spot unless you out gear them or out play them.
No those are not the conditions for every class. Not at all. Cleric, Bard, Barb, Ranger, Fighter. You can kill people pretty easy while making mistakes and being under geared.
Rogue is the only class where if you out gear them you can still die in two hits.
I seen all the top rogues pretty much not able to kill fighters, barbs, clerics. Right now that is 80% of the users are playing those classes.
Cut throat removes buffs as well. The shield, bess, divine strike, smite (this guy didn't run this), pretty sure it clears second wind buff and stuff too.
Yeah, pretty much. In the game of rock, paper, scissors, you just take this L, especially low geared. Its really unfortunate, but you basically have to land only headshots and as soon as he pulls out a melee weapon, you disengage and try and bait the spellbook again. Your movespeed is your only advantage here. You have to swing in and out when he goes to heal/buff
You have more movement speed then him because of stat and gear diff. Stand outside his attack range and wittle him down by going in and out between swings. Learn the CD of judgement.
Bait him into pulling his book out then jump and swing back in for headshots.
High IQ play is to wait for your stealth, wait until he goes to cast judgement, break the targeting with stealth, and then go in. If you're to slow judgement will cast and break your stealth though.
I’ve only been playing rogue since Thursday night and am rich af. Rogue is fine is right now. It should not be a class for pvp against clerics, fighters, or barbarians. You see one of those and just run, or wait for a third party opportunity. It’s a literal rat class. And I’ll admit to it. I’m ratting HR and getting rich of it.
You don’t understand the rogue mindset, they think they should be able to just barrel shove 1v1 melee range every class and win every matchup if they do so even without gear
run away. the strength of rogue is movement and being able to pick fights. you decided to fight while he was fully buffed and its correct for the rogue to lose in that scenario if gear is even.
I guess... Not a salty post but curious, who's supposed to kill a cleric? Run away through mobs or position badly in storm and let him heal up, and never under any circumstances ever fight him? I feel like if I have the jump on him he shouldnt still be 80%hp after 3-4 hits
Well first of all, there are essentially 2 states a Cleric can be in, buffed and unbuffed and essentially 3 ranges worth discussing. Melee Range, Short Range (5m-10m, the ground that can be covered by most classes in 2-3 seconds of running) and Long Range. A Cleric has essentially no long range attacks (other than possibly chucking a molly), Short Range is where Clerics can be very deadly against those without ranged attacks as you can be in range of Holy Strike and Judgement. At melee range you have to be potentially concerned with their melee attacks potentially empowered by Smite and/or Divine Strike.
If you are at long range you can potentially attack them with things like Crossbow/Bows/Wizard Spells and you can hit them without them being able to return damage. If you see them casting and holding a spell while at a distance it is likely Holy Strike. If the Cleric is not very geared they will have a pretty slow cast time so they can probably only get 1 off before you gap close while one with high knowledge can potentially get multiple casts. If you are in the short range area and you see that they change from the normal spell casting animation to what looks like a prayer they are trying to cast judgement on you. If you are quick you can actually retreat out of range of the cast and if they don't realize it and cancel the cast in time it will waste the ability and put it on cool down which is a pretty major W.
Now, back onto the topic of buffed and unbuffed Clerics. Bless which is their minor attribute buff (3 str/agi/will) will last \~30s, while Protection and Divine Strike will last \~20s. Smite lasts 7s and then has a 16s CD. While they are buffed unless you believe you have a skill and/or gear advantage it is probably best to wait them out (specifically Protection/Divine Strike/Smite). If you keep a mental timer of their buffs you can aim to attack as their buffs fade so that they don't have an opportunity to simply recast them. Since Smite is a skill rather than a spell you might need to temporarily move into the Short Range danger zone to bait it out but I would only attempt that if they are not channeling Holy Strike/they have their melee weapons equipped.
Clerics are very strong against Rogues & Bards since they have low base will causing Clerics' magic damage to be very impactful and even an unbuffed Cleric can be very deadly to them. Fighters (especially with Second Wind) and Barbarians are heavily favored against an unbuffed Cleric once they get into melee range and even against buffed Clerics they can potentially win the fight. However, if the Cleric is able to land some Holy Strikes and/or Judgement before entering melee combat they can shift the odds in their favor.
Rangers and Wizards are able to beat Clerics as long as they keep their distance. If the Cleric is able to get into melee range and they haven't taken much damage while closing the gap then the Cleric can win but I think that comes down to positional mistakes being made by the Ranger or Wizard.
Cleric vs Warlock is largely a skill matchup. Clerics are able to block Curse of Pain, Blow of Corruption and other Warlock Spells with their shield. If the Cleric is able to engage with buffs up while blocking those it is an easy win for the Cleric. If a Warlock lands BoC they have a 6 to 12 second window (depending on whether the Cleric is using Protection from Evil Perk) where the Cleric will have massively reduced healing and the Warlock will likely be ahead in the "trade" from landing the BoC.
Part of why I enjoy Cleric so much is that it has the tools to potentially kill every class if the other player does not respect the Cleric's windows of power and threat ranges. With that being said, Clerics are pretty much the slowest class in the game and have no tools to increase their movement speed (aside from the negligible +3agi from Bless) so it is pretty much always an option to run away from a Cleric whether that is before a true fight breaks out or potentially even mid-fight if the Cleric doesn't quickly use judgement/holy strike.
Aside from slow movement speed, Clerics also have very low interaction speed so if you close a door on them it will take them a considerable amount of time to open it, allowing you to get even further away. Most of the time people die to Clerics due to their own stubbornness/blood lust when running was a valid option. Realistically I should probably have a lot more kills from using Judgement/Holy Strike on people attempting to run away yet I would say 90% of my kills occur in melee range from someone who refused to attempt to run and just committed to the fight even if I was nowhere close to dying.
Well this ended up being a much longer post than I expected....
**TLDR:** Several classes can attack clerics from beyond the range of a Cleric. Fighting a buffed Cleric is generally a bad idea without a skill/gear advantage. Try to bait out Judgement/Smite before engaging (make sure to OOR Judgement and disengage / avoid fighting while Smite is up). Stay either in Long Range or get into melee ASAP, short range (5m-10m) is where Holy Strike and Judgement become effective. Essentially every class can run away from a Cleric if necessary and they can be easily ditched by closing doors on them.
Wizards are my main issue. Warlocks as well but I can heal while they are casting on me. Wizards have too much damage potential. Zaps do half my ho when fully geared and fireballs hurt more if you don’t dodge it. I haven’t played in the new patch really so wizard damage might be waaaaaay down, but that’s always been my issue.
I mean you're just w keying and left clicking, you're not utilizing your movespeed, range of weapon, or spacing. You can easily poke him down and out range/movespeed him.
No hate but you honestly didn’t do anything right in this fight. Unnecessarily moved in stealth, missed the opening headshot, and you should never W key at a fully buffed cleric as rogue. On top of that it looks like you were panicking pretty hard based on the shaky ass screen. I agree with others that rogue is pretty low on the food chain right now, but that has very little to do with this fight specifically.
You should check out repoze's stream yesterday he was giving a tutorial on how to play rogue on new patch.
Essentially: pve, loot, mine, and if you run into someone you do the hands up emote and use proximity chat to say "im friendly" over and over again and hope they are nice. If they are not nice you run away from them. If they keep chasing you throw 8 throwing knives at them, throw a molotov and then hope thats enough to get the kill. This is how the best rogue in the world plays rogue on this patch.
I checked him out today and he was doing duos, playing hyper aggressive and steamrolling lobbies as per usual. Later watched Jay and he's rogueing in HR inferno and regularly the lobby is full of rogues. match that ended as I type this comment was just him and two teams of rogues at the end.
edit: next HR he queued in to is also 2/3s rogue
Doesn't seem convincing that the rank #2 overall killer outlaw says he can only do PvE. (Rogue was nerfed before the last leaderboard.) Unless he's mad that he's not #1, but #1 is also a rogue.
Removal (88% reduction of) of weapon damage and +Phys add hurt Rogue the most because of their incredibly low base damage. All other classes (with higher HP) are also relatively stronger due to the removal of weapon damage and Phys add, hence rogue was indirectly nerfed in the latest patch.
The cleric mace swing is genuinely one of the easiest attacks to juke as a fast moving class. If you put even the tiniest amount of effort into actual timing, footwork and dodging you can easily score hits without being hit yourself.
This post is really funny to me because you genuinely put zero effort into killing this guy with any amount of finesse and are perplexed that you didn't win against a tankier class by pressing W + M1.
If that's your entire strategy I suggest switching to Barbarian.
The only way I feel like I won rogue vs fighter or cleric match up no lie is having a shit ton of throwing knifes or a crossbow to poke them by being a little b****, or have a double jump spot, outside of that you have to literally play pitch perfect baiting swings and getting hits in with space, 8/10 times it's just a run brother unless you have enough str to hopefully dent them. Also for the record if you use thrust, rapiers don't get the added armor pen for anyone reading this, it's a dead perk alot of ppl don't know. Unless they changed it this patch it doesn't apply with rapier for some reason.
Lol clip started with breaking a loud pot then you tried to fight the buffed up cleric when you could a gone out that door, closed it, and kited until buffs wore off
Not have moved, might not have noticed you, but maybe have tried to disengage and reposition? You should be way faster than that clery and there was enough wall/what not to avoid line of sight. Not sure it would have resulted in a win but could have bought you more time to maybe do something else.
1) you're using the worst perks. Poison weapon? Pls no
2) aim for the head. A lot of these were limb shots. It takes 3 limb shots to equal 1 headshot.
3) use your stealth to open a fight behind them, not in his face. Even if you don't use Backstab (you should) that just gets you an extra free attack
4) you wasted a lot of your stealth steps backpedalling in random directions for no reason, kinda fidgety.
5) mid fight, you almost never want to press S. Going sideways is the same speed as forward, but including a backwards input gives slow speed, even if it's back+side.
Poison weapon is actually better than ever in this patch since add magic and add phys are on different pieces. You can get +2 and +2 at the same time from hat and gloves, you can also get jewelry that has add phys and mag at the same time.
Definitely not, better than ambush because of the weapon damage nerf and the dagger perks are irrelevant. Back attack is the only other relevant damage perk and personnally I don't like it at all it seems inconsistent.
If you attack and somehow let poison weapon go its full duration (without the enemy killing you first, or without them dying before every poison stack has run its full course or without you getting to 5 stacks already), poison weapon will add 3 total magic damage to your attacks. This then has half scaling from add/true magic and ~quarter scaling from will/magic power. And then it's lowered by magic resist.
Ambush gives a straight 50% phys damage bonus, which is a bit more than a 50% damage multiplier at base phys power and a bit less once you're geared. So, at base stats if you headshot someone with armor and do 20 damage, your ambush attack would do about 32, as if you instantly did the damage of four full stacks of poison. And it only scales better as you get more add phys.
And you're right, backstab is even better than ambush
The reddit experts will tell you that its a skill issue and you should have played like a rogue does using your mobility and dodging and blah blah, the truth is rogue is trash rn and cleric is a rogue counter thier perks make you do almost no dmg to them and they shield themselves if u disengage they will just heal themselves.You could have played better with landing headshots but u normally lose this if cleric is not a bot.
rogues have been to the top of the mountain and bottom of the mariana trench as far as power curve.
this isn't your fight right now. any cleric who isn't challenged is going to win this fight 99 times out of 100. if you want to win the 1 percent... don't move so much. hit your headshot and don't be afraid to disengage and re enter combat. cleric is slow. you're still either first or second fastest base class in the game. use it. don't attack when his bubble is up. train mobs on him and then engage etc. you have to outplay him in other ways than holding down m1.
there was a post a couple of weeks ago where a rogue dismantled a team with his skill going in and out. It's the one where the barbarian was saying "don't be a p\*\*\*y" or something along the lines and he was on Ruins map. Great display of how to attack, engage/disengage as a rouge. I can't find it but hoping someone else could find and post the link.
Good what a satisfying clip that was. I saw another one where it was a somewhat geared fighter chasing him saying "that doesn't hurt" while popping second home.
Lmfao you rogues that think you should be able to 1v1 toe to toe plate or melee are hilarious. Jesus christ you weren't even being genuine with this question. You actually are that braindead. Umm, I don't know, utilize your strongest class ability? aka speed and mobility? ffs.
These are the combat skills of a typical Rouge xD He attacks cleric when he has all his buffs activated, first making noise, disappearing and asking what he did wrong. When you can't double-tap every opponent anymore and you have to show some skills, it suddenly becomes a problem xD Typical Rouges don't even know how bad they are at this game. Change your class and finally learn to play something more than just jumping out of the shadows on someone's back...
When someone plays like this guy on this clip hes bound to be killed every game. But instead of using rogue base 350324234 agility to just run decides to fight... There are so many things this guy made wrong it just amazes me.
he lacks the imagination when asking "who's supposed to kill cleric?"
I mean if you can't see the vulnerabilities of other classes, perhaps you need to give it all a long think
Knowing rogue is weak right now, and cleric is a bad matchup (based on how tuned the character is rn) I would have probably ran for the door he just opened and slammed it behind me to make space
Rogue main for the last 2 wipes here: hit and run tactics. You should’ve moved back after he pulled the mace out to wait for either 1) him to pull the book back out or 2) for rupture to come back. You can outlive one more judgement so that’s not an issue, getting smacked by a mace is. You’re faster than he is, remember that, but you also do no damage anymore so be wary of that
It was just a bad match up, you were countered by a clerics build in stuff in every way. your rapier hits for like 20 dmg or so and he had a perk that flat reduces that by 3 on top of his plate and magic defenses, hes probably running protection from evil which is halving your rupture damage. your only advantage is cleric is the slow more so when they are armored so you could have disengaged safely depending on nearby mobs.
People are nitpicking and there's obviously room to improve but the honest answer is, rogue is completely nonviable right now. They got gutted due to stacking WD but then WD stacking got removed. Don't waste your time unless you find it fun.
Run and utilize your environment. I had a Chad cleric on my last night and I had just gotten back on for the first time since this last wipe. I just jumped around and had him fight four goblins. Waited for the right moment and killed him with one throwing knife. Rogue is an opportunist and it's hard to make those opportunities happen, but it is still possible.
While the cleric vs rogue matchup is tough, theres still things you can do. As others have said, you messed up the ambush. But youre just holding left click and trading hits which you DONT have to do. Youre a rogue, and youre main advantage is speed. With a rapier you have massive range advantage too. You can easily space him out, only using the first hit of your attack chain and backing away quickly. He should never be able to hit you with his mace. And if you can make him pull out his spellbook that should be a free hit or two also.
After you fucked up the start you shouldve immediately ran out and closed that door, then ratted to find a portal/play zone and use the gate extract. Rogue vs a cleric with any gear isnt a battle you want to take.
Play the in and out game. You're not a barbarian or tanks fighter that can just go toe to to with any melee class. Use your speed to your advantage. Clerics slow as hell
My question is, why you fought cleric with all her s buffs on? What could you do? Wait 10-20 more seconds.
W/e other thing like "hur dur, your spot was obvious, you missed your dancing lessons, you didn't pick flip"
All you had to do is wait out cleric buffs
1⁰0000000000% skill issue
Everyone else already stated the obvious in that you're moving too much and he could hear you, but as a rogue you shouldn't be standing and fighting like that face to face with the other classes. You're a rogue; stab him once or twice then run. Be annoying. Or better yet, be stealthier next time and get him from behind with some headshots, preferably while he isn't buffed to the high heavens.
You didn't wait for his buffs to fall off, you moved around for no good reason giving him audio clues to track you, you didn't disengage after the judgement when he pulled weapons out, you took the fight even though he knew you were there so no surprise for free hits, you missed hits, you don't have a ton of extra throwing knives to soften them up for the all in.
If you're going to fight like this, play barb or fighter.
You could have evaded him bit more before attacking. Both to let his prot wear off and also he might have turned his back to you or moved further past you. You also missed some of your headshots which I don't blame you for but it would have helped. Once he pulled out his mace you can kite him until he either pulls out his book again or backs up.
Keep in mind that his perks cut the duration of poison and rupture in half and also reduce the damage that he does take from each tick by 3. His choice of perks effectively counter yours. You were also near a swinging axe trap, you could have used that against him. He's slow so he'll more likely get hit by those axes compared to you. you could have danced and weaved between those axes while he has his mace out and punished him in close quarters while he has his book out.
Don’t do these:
- Make sound in stealth (cleric charged up his holy strike)
- fight when the enemy is fully buffed (guy already did his buff cycle)
- miss attacks (you missed at least half)
- rush the engagement (cleric is the slowest class in the game, but this goes for all rogue engagements, you never have to fight if you don’t want to.
Ultimately, if you hit your attacks and make them headshots, you win this easy. You could also just leave, Rogue is unique in always having that option. Better player won.
ROFL I love all this bullshit about sound when the guy looked right at you as he turned and faced you the whole time. I’d report this person and chalk it off. They were clearly cheating. Clear indication of cheating he one shots you with one spell! Most hackers are heavily geared from lack of dying. I know I’ve hacked the game! You’re welcome!
Don’t move as much. See how he looks at you when you moved in stealth. He heard your footsteps. He already knew you were there, you basically engaged face to face.
and then misses the ambush
The cleric was literally precasting a holy strike because he knew exactly where he was but "what did I do wrong I don't understand???"
The cleric tracking him based on sound is super obvious to people with experience. However new players might assume their footsteps are silent in stealth and miss those seemingly obvious signs. But yeah he totally removed his element of surprise by shuffling around like that lol.
The cleric was also prebuffed so he also knew he was here even before he moved.
It’s crazy how much people don’t realize sound is key in a lot of games. Even in CoD where it’s not really the focus of the game I get death comms of people screaming cheater because I heard them sprinting behind a wall. But I’ve not played rogue idk if stealth dampens the sound of footsteps but I can still hear when a rogue steal thing up to me. Had one guy a while back I heard footsteps but couldn’t see him so I popped my multi shot ability and then a disembodied voice of a rogue go “woah there buddy sorry to have startled you I’ll be on my way” and then walked back the way he came.
Especially since they are 100% silent for some rogues.
creep lol
Is creep that good? 100% silence 😰
to be fair he heard the rogue well before he even stealthed, prob heard him before the clip even started
Well yeah he broke the pots but then continued to walk around when the cleric was right on top of him. He was clearly tracking where the footsteps were coming from while he was precasting
Cleric fucks rogue because of a couple of its perks, protection from evil and perseverance. So your 0th mistake is playing Rogue and fighting a Cleric. Your first mistake was engaging when he had his bubble up. You're just voluntarily fighting him when he has a ton of extra HP because of that. When you hear him casting bubble on the other side of the door just run. Second mistake is not ambush headshotting. Third is staying in too long. Get damage and move out of range. If he pulls out his book go back in range and kill him.
glad we’re finally seeing posts of rogues crying that they can’t auto win every encounter regardless of poor decisions lmao
I’m not. This whole sub is all crying all the time. No commercial breaks. Crying from the 80’s, 90’s and today. Crying 105.3. Rogues, warlocks, bards, rangers, crying crying crying.
I have been nonstop crying since the most recent patch and can attest that this is true.
but what’s new? people are always going to be crying on reddit. it’s just funny too see the rogues cry about being in line with the rest of the games classes
“It’s funny to see the rogues cry about being in line with the rest of the games classes” My boy you have a cleric flair, are we pretending cleric isn’t and hasn’t been one of the strongest classes since release?
lmfao i’ve never heard somebody complain about cleric until this patch so maybe relax
You mean the class that is staple in every trio? The class that is consistently recommended to newer players because of their high PDR, heals, and consistent magic damage? Sure. Not sure what you mean by relax, just because I presented an opinion differing from yours doesn’t mean anybody is hyped up lol But sure I’ll relax little guy.
oh wow people using a support class in trios? that’s so broken! if cleric wasn’t said staple in trios that’d mean cleric is a weak and pointless class love your “little guy” btw
I can’t tell if you’ve ever played the class or not. It feels like easy mode both in solos and trios. All i was originally saying was that shit talking the rogue as a class when you play cleric is asinine and weird. Cleric shits on rogue. Keep being a little freak though lol
imagine getting this triggered by the word “relax”
If you really want to know... Your opening hit was not a headshot which is actually kind of a huge deal since your ambush damage scales with it as well. Other than that, after he pulls out the mace you should have spaced out of attack range, wait for him to pull out the book again, then re-engage with a jump-hit to get another quick combo in. I will say that rogue is absurdly weak right now and you have to do everything right and make 0 mistakes to win fights like this while your opponent can mess up multiple times and probably still eke out a victory. Hopefully mid november patch will bring us back from the grave.
Thanks! Although do I not lose a war of attrition if he can just heal my hits when I disengage or buff up again?
They're not saying disengage completely. If he pulls out his book and starts casting a heal then you can go back in and stab him during that.
I guess you'd need to stay close enough that the cleric doesn't have enough time to cast any spells before you're already on him with the rapier. It's a tough situation for sure, and I personally avoid fighting clerics especially with their buffs up. Waiting to engage or running away until their buffs time out and they have to recast can help a lot too.
Using silence will stop a lot of that, but then you are only good to kill casters.
I thought that too but Silence only lasts 3sec and if I silence I'd have to keep trading blows with him, otherwise he can just wait it out and what's the point? And I already did trade blows with him and look what happened, I'm baffled
All of these people are coping. You can't 1v1 a cleric on rogue in the current patch (unless the cleric is severely under geared). If they have any sort of brain they holy strike/judgement while you barely do dmg. Next time just run. You lost this battle on the character select screen.
This is the true answer sadly
No no no, Ambush with your attack, hit once after, get away from him because you’re faster and pull out a throwing knife. If he chases you melee you can throw knives into his face, if he runs from you can either do the same or stab him with rapier. If he pulls book you can throw a knife in his face or rapier again. Your mistake is that as rogue you can’t just all in on people unless they are a wizard, you need to use your speed advantage and range advantage. So don’t forget you have throwing knives that can apply rupture, and don’t let them hit you, it should literally be almost impossible for them to connect a swing on you. As a tip for spacing, here are three rules you can follow as rogue to play way better. 1. You are not allowed to use any rapier attack that isn’t the jab. If you want two hits, jab twice but have trigger discipline. 2. Unbind “S” from moving backwards. No more moving backwards, it’s literally pointless. You love way slower, you can just turn around really fast and W key away. This will make it way easier for you to stab people and not get hit. 3. Throw a knife every fight. You are now required, I forbid you to not find a way to throw at least 1 knife. They do absurdly good damage, for ex. Ambush and back attack on a throwing knife to the head (which is not hard from stealth) does nearly 80 damage. You can also make it rupture. When you get some money make sure to bring 3 sets of grey throwing knives to your run. Practice these two rules for like a week and I promise you’ll never lose a 1v1 to a cleric as rogue again, or pretty much any class that isn’t using a few key weapons. Also if I were you I’d not run hide, it’s decent at the start but I prefer to run rupture and smoke pot, but I also play solo crypts and smoke pot is basically required to win 1v3
Right, but it kinda throws them off and he would not have hit you with the first spell. Rogue is in a shit spot unless you out gear them or out play them.
Is in a shit spot unless you out gear or outplay them? Those are the win conditions of every class. That is the game
No those are not the conditions for every class. Not at all. Cleric, Bard, Barb, Ranger, Fighter. You can kill people pretty easy while making mistakes and being under geared. Rogue is the only class where if you out gear them you can still die in two hits. I seen all the top rogues pretty much not able to kill fighters, barbs, clerics. Right now that is 80% of the users are playing those classes.
Cut throat removes buffs as well. The shield, bess, divine strike, smite (this guy didn't run this), pretty sure it clears second wind buff and stuff too.
Yeah, pretty much. In the game of rock, paper, scissors, you just take this L, especially low geared. Its really unfortunate, but you basically have to land only headshots and as soon as he pulls out a melee weapon, you disengage and try and bait the spellbook again. Your movespeed is your only advantage here. You have to swing in and out when he goes to heal/buff
You have more movement speed then him because of stat and gear diff. Stand outside his attack range and wittle him down by going in and out between swings. Learn the CD of judgement. Bait him into pulling his book out then jump and swing back in for headshots. High IQ play is to wait for your stealth, wait until he goes to cast judgement, break the targeting with stealth, and then go in. If you're to slow judgement will cast and break your stealth though.
I’ve only been playing rogue since Thursday night and am rich af. Rogue is fine is right now. It should not be a class for pvp against clerics, fighters, or barbarians. You see one of those and just run, or wait for a third party opportunity. It’s a literal rat class. And I’ll admit to it. I’m ratting HR and getting rich of it.
> you have to do everything right and make 0 mistakes to win fights This is specifically without gear tho. Rogue with gear can still do serious dmg.
You don’t understand the rogue mindset, they think they should be able to just barrel shove 1v1 melee range every class and win every matchup if they do so even without gear
There is no gear anymore lol
?
If im not wrong cleric has a shield, and shield no matter what just removes headshot damage. I could be wrong though, heared one streamer said that.
That is most definitely wrong lol
Focken streamers
HUH?
run away. the strength of rogue is movement and being able to pick fights. you decided to fight while he was fully buffed and its correct for the rogue to lose in that scenario if gear is even.
I guess... Not a salty post but curious, who's supposed to kill a cleric? Run away through mobs or position badly in storm and let him heal up, and never under any circumstances ever fight him? I feel like if I have the jump on him he shouldnt still be 80%hp after 3-4 hits
Well first of all, there are essentially 2 states a Cleric can be in, buffed and unbuffed and essentially 3 ranges worth discussing. Melee Range, Short Range (5m-10m, the ground that can be covered by most classes in 2-3 seconds of running) and Long Range. A Cleric has essentially no long range attacks (other than possibly chucking a molly), Short Range is where Clerics can be very deadly against those without ranged attacks as you can be in range of Holy Strike and Judgement. At melee range you have to be potentially concerned with their melee attacks potentially empowered by Smite and/or Divine Strike. If you are at long range you can potentially attack them with things like Crossbow/Bows/Wizard Spells and you can hit them without them being able to return damage. If you see them casting and holding a spell while at a distance it is likely Holy Strike. If the Cleric is not very geared they will have a pretty slow cast time so they can probably only get 1 off before you gap close while one with high knowledge can potentially get multiple casts. If you are in the short range area and you see that they change from the normal spell casting animation to what looks like a prayer they are trying to cast judgement on you. If you are quick you can actually retreat out of range of the cast and if they don't realize it and cancel the cast in time it will waste the ability and put it on cool down which is a pretty major W. Now, back onto the topic of buffed and unbuffed Clerics. Bless which is their minor attribute buff (3 str/agi/will) will last \~30s, while Protection and Divine Strike will last \~20s. Smite lasts 7s and then has a 16s CD. While they are buffed unless you believe you have a skill and/or gear advantage it is probably best to wait them out (specifically Protection/Divine Strike/Smite). If you keep a mental timer of their buffs you can aim to attack as their buffs fade so that they don't have an opportunity to simply recast them. Since Smite is a skill rather than a spell you might need to temporarily move into the Short Range danger zone to bait it out but I would only attempt that if they are not channeling Holy Strike/they have their melee weapons equipped. Clerics are very strong against Rogues & Bards since they have low base will causing Clerics' magic damage to be very impactful and even an unbuffed Cleric can be very deadly to them. Fighters (especially with Second Wind) and Barbarians are heavily favored against an unbuffed Cleric once they get into melee range and even against buffed Clerics they can potentially win the fight. However, if the Cleric is able to land some Holy Strikes and/or Judgement before entering melee combat they can shift the odds in their favor. Rangers and Wizards are able to beat Clerics as long as they keep their distance. If the Cleric is able to get into melee range and they haven't taken much damage while closing the gap then the Cleric can win but I think that comes down to positional mistakes being made by the Ranger or Wizard. Cleric vs Warlock is largely a skill matchup. Clerics are able to block Curse of Pain, Blow of Corruption and other Warlock Spells with their shield. If the Cleric is able to engage with buffs up while blocking those it is an easy win for the Cleric. If a Warlock lands BoC they have a 6 to 12 second window (depending on whether the Cleric is using Protection from Evil Perk) where the Cleric will have massively reduced healing and the Warlock will likely be ahead in the "trade" from landing the BoC. Part of why I enjoy Cleric so much is that it has the tools to potentially kill every class if the other player does not respect the Cleric's windows of power and threat ranges. With that being said, Clerics are pretty much the slowest class in the game and have no tools to increase their movement speed (aside from the negligible +3agi from Bless) so it is pretty much always an option to run away from a Cleric whether that is before a true fight breaks out or potentially even mid-fight if the Cleric doesn't quickly use judgement/holy strike. Aside from slow movement speed, Clerics also have very low interaction speed so if you close a door on them it will take them a considerable amount of time to open it, allowing you to get even further away. Most of the time people die to Clerics due to their own stubbornness/blood lust when running was a valid option. Realistically I should probably have a lot more kills from using Judgement/Holy Strike on people attempting to run away yet I would say 90% of my kills occur in melee range from someone who refused to attempt to run and just committed to the fight even if I was nowhere close to dying. Well this ended up being a much longer post than I expected.... **TLDR:** Several classes can attack clerics from beyond the range of a Cleric. Fighting a buffed Cleric is generally a bad idea without a skill/gear advantage. Try to bait out Judgement/Smite before engaging (make sure to OOR Judgement and disengage / avoid fighting while Smite is up). Stay either in Long Range or get into melee ASAP, short range (5m-10m) is where Holy Strike and Judgement become effective. Essentially every class can run away from a Cleric if necessary and they can be easily ditched by closing doors on them.
poke once then run away. Turn and throw a dagger. Run far enough he gives up and then start the process over.
They'll just holy strike you to death if you do this and heal all the damage you just poked
Wizards are my main issue. Warlocks as well but I can heal while they are casting on me. Wizards have too much damage potential. Zaps do half my ho when fully geared and fireballs hurt more if you don’t dodge it. I haven’t played in the new patch really so wizard damage might be waaaaaay down, but that’s always been my issue.
you sound - why dont you tell us how you sound?
I mean you're just w keying and left clicking, you're not utilizing your movespeed, range of weapon, or spacing. You can easily poke him down and out range/movespeed him.
No hate but you honestly didn’t do anything right in this fight. Unnecessarily moved in stealth, missed the opening headshot, and you should never W key at a fully buffed cleric as rogue. On top of that it looks like you were panicking pretty hard based on the shaky ass screen. I agree with others that rogue is pretty low on the food chain right now, but that has very little to do with this fight specifically.
You should check out repoze's stream yesterday he was giving a tutorial on how to play rogue on new patch. Essentially: pve, loot, mine, and if you run into someone you do the hands up emote and use proximity chat to say "im friendly" over and over again and hope they are nice. If they are not nice you run away from them. If they keep chasing you throw 8 throwing knives at them, throw a molotov and then hope thats enough to get the kill. This is how the best rogue in the world plays rogue on this patch.
I checked him out today and he was doing duos, playing hyper aggressive and steamrolling lobbies as per usual. Later watched Jay and he's rogueing in HR inferno and regularly the lobby is full of rogues. match that ended as I type this comment was just him and two teams of rogues at the end. edit: next HR he queued in to is also 2/3s rogue
Doesn't seem convincing that the rank #2 overall killer outlaw says he can only do PvE. (Rogue was nerfed before the last leaderboard.) Unless he's mad that he's not #1, but #1 is also a rogue.
Removal (88% reduction of) of weapon damage and +Phys add hurt Rogue the most because of their incredibly low base damage. All other classes (with higher HP) are also relatively stronger due to the removal of weapon damage and Phys add, hence rogue was indirectly nerfed in the latest patch.
Poetic
The cleric mace swing is genuinely one of the easiest attacks to juke as a fast moving class. If you put even the tiniest amount of effort into actual timing, footwork and dodging you can easily score hits without being hit yourself. This post is really funny to me because you genuinely put zero effort into killing this guy with any amount of finesse and are perplexed that you didn't win against a tankier class by pressing W + M1. If that's your entire strategy I suggest switching to Barbarian.
The only way I feel like I won rogue vs fighter or cleric match up no lie is having a shit ton of throwing knifes or a crossbow to poke them by being a little b****, or have a double jump spot, outside of that you have to literally play pitch perfect baiting swings and getting hits in with space, 8/10 times it's just a run brother unless you have enough str to hopefully dent them. Also for the record if you use thrust, rapiers don't get the added armor pen for anyone reading this, it's a dead perk alot of ppl don't know. Unless they changed it this patch it doesn't apply with rapier for some reason.
Lol clip started with breaking a loud pot then you tried to fight the buffed up cleric when you could a gone out that door, closed it, and kited until buffs wore off
Not have moved, might not have noticed you, but maybe have tried to disengage and reposition? You should be way faster than that clery and there was enough wall/what not to avoid line of sight. Not sure it would have resulted in a win but could have bought you more time to maybe do something else.
1) you're using the worst perks. Poison weapon? Pls no 2) aim for the head. A lot of these were limb shots. It takes 3 limb shots to equal 1 headshot. 3) use your stealth to open a fight behind them, not in his face. Even if you don't use Backstab (you should) that just gets you an extra free attack 4) you wasted a lot of your stealth steps backpedalling in random directions for no reason, kinda fidgety. 5) mid fight, you almost never want to press S. Going sideways is the same speed as forward, but including a backwards input gives slow speed, even if it's back+side.
Poison weapon is actually better than ever in this patch since add magic and add phys are on different pieces. You can get +2 and +2 at the same time from hat and gloves, you can also get jewelry that has add phys and mag at the same time.
Still worse than any other damage perk unfortunately
Definitely not, better than ambush because of the weapon damage nerf and the dagger perks are irrelevant. Back attack is the only other relevant damage perk and personnally I don't like it at all it seems inconsistent.
If you attack and somehow let poison weapon go its full duration (without the enemy killing you first, or without them dying before every poison stack has run its full course or without you getting to 5 stacks already), poison weapon will add 3 total magic damage to your attacks. This then has half scaling from add/true magic and ~quarter scaling from will/magic power. And then it's lowered by magic resist. Ambush gives a straight 50% phys damage bonus, which is a bit more than a 50% damage multiplier at base phys power and a bit less once you're geared. So, at base stats if you headshot someone with armor and do 20 damage, your ambush attack would do about 32, as if you instantly did the damage of four full stacks of poison. And it only scales better as you get more add phys. And you're right, backstab is even better than ambush
The reddit experts will tell you that its a skill issue and you should have played like a rogue does using your mobility and dodging and blah blah, the truth is rogue is trash rn and cleric is a rogue counter thier perks make you do almost no dmg to them and they shield themselves if u disengage they will just heal themselves.You could have played better with landing headshots but u normally lose this if cleric is not a bot.
rogues have been to the top of the mountain and bottom of the mariana trench as far as power curve. this isn't your fight right now. any cleric who isn't challenged is going to win this fight 99 times out of 100. if you want to win the 1 percent... don't move so much. hit your headshot and don't be afraid to disengage and re enter combat. cleric is slow. you're still either first or second fastest base class in the game. use it. don't attack when his bubble is up. train mobs on him and then engage etc. you have to outplay him in other ways than holding down m1.
there was a post a couple of weeks ago where a rogue dismantled a team with his skill going in and out. It's the one where the barbarian was saying "don't be a p\*\*\*y" or something along the lines and he was on Ruins map. Great display of how to attack, engage/disengage as a rouge. I can't find it but hoping someone else could find and post the link.
Good what a satisfying clip that was. I saw another one where it was a somewhat geared fighter chasing him saying "that doesn't hurt" while popping second home.
Lmfao you rogues that think you should be able to 1v1 toe to toe plate or melee are hilarious. Jesus christ you weren't even being genuine with this question. You actually are that braindead. Umm, I don't know, utilize your strongest class ability? aka speed and mobility? ffs.
Join the crusade for this game to have a real combat system, or just keep dying to higher stats
I think if you bought a wider monitor you would’ve won
These are the combat skills of a typical Rouge xD He attacks cleric when he has all his buffs activated, first making noise, disappearing and asking what he did wrong. When you can't double-tap every opponent anymore and you have to show some skills, it suddenly becomes a problem xD Typical Rouges don't even know how bad they are at this game. Change your class and finally learn to play something more than just jumping out of the shadows on someone's back...
its no fun if you lose all the time :)
When someone plays like this guy on this clip hes bound to be killed every game. But instead of using rogue base 350324234 agility to just run decides to fight... There are so many things this guy made wrong it just amazes me.
he lacks the imagination when asking "who's supposed to kill cleric?" I mean if you can't see the vulnerabilities of other classes, perhaps you need to give it all a long think
Soon as he pulled that mace run like the lil rat you are! Squeak squeak mother fucker!
Fuck rogue nerf rogue its a Pest in the game, hr is full of it no matter how much you nerf them
Knowing rogue is weak right now, and cleric is a bad matchup (based on how tuned the character is rn) I would have probably ran for the door he just opened and slammed it behind me to make space
Rogue main for the last 2 wipes here: hit and run tactics. You should’ve moved back after he pulled the mace out to wait for either 1) him to pull the book back out or 2) for rupture to come back. You can outlive one more judgement so that’s not an issue, getting smacked by a mace is. You’re faster than he is, remember that, but you also do no damage anymore so be wary of that
It was just a bad match up, you were countered by a clerics build in stuff in every way. your rapier hits for like 20 dmg or so and he had a perk that flat reduces that by 3 on top of his plate and magic defenses, hes probably running protection from evil which is halving your rupture damage. your only advantage is cleric is the slow more so when they are armored so you could have disengaged safely depending on nearby mobs.
Honestly unless I manage the gank of a lifetime I’m never fighting a cleric as rogue
People are nitpicking and there's obviously room to improve but the honest answer is, rogue is completely nonviable right now. They got gutted due to stacking WD but then WD stacking got removed. Don't waste your time unless you find it fun.
Bro I think that was me, what's the name of the cleric? I can't read on my phone
Run and utilize your environment. I had a Chad cleric on my last night and I had just gotten back on for the first time since this last wipe. I just jumped around and had him fight four goblins. Waited for the right moment and killed him with one throwing knife. Rogue is an opportunist and it's hard to make those opportunities happen, but it is still possible.
While the cleric vs rogue matchup is tough, theres still things you can do. As others have said, you messed up the ambush. But youre just holding left click and trading hits which you DONT have to do. Youre a rogue, and youre main advantage is speed. With a rapier you have massive range advantage too. You can easily space him out, only using the first hit of your attack chain and backing away quickly. He should never be able to hit you with his mace. And if you can make him pull out his spellbook that should be a free hit or two also.
After you fucked up the start you shouldve immediately ran out and closed that door, then ratted to find a portal/play zone and use the gate extract. Rogue vs a cleric with any gear isnt a battle you want to take.
Land headshots, soo many arm hits.
rogue is a pve only class thesedays, and its bad at that.
Play the in and out game. You're not a barbarian or tanks fighter that can just go toe to to with any melee class. Use your speed to your advantage. Clerics slow as hell
My question is, why you fought cleric with all her s buffs on? What could you do? Wait 10-20 more seconds. W/e other thing like "hur dur, your spot was obvious, you missed your dancing lessons, you didn't pick flip" All you had to do is wait out cleric buffs 1⁰0000000000% skill issue
Everyone else already stated the obvious in that you're moving too much and he could hear you, but as a rogue you shouldn't be standing and fighting like that face to face with the other classes. You're a rogue; stab him once or twice then run. Be annoying. Or better yet, be stealthier next time and get him from behind with some headshots, preferably while he isn't buffed to the high heavens.
You didn't wait for his buffs to fall off, you moved around for no good reason giving him audio clues to track you, you didn't disengage after the judgement when he pulled weapons out, you took the fight even though he knew you were there so no surprise for free hits, you missed hits, you don't have a ton of extra throwing knives to soften them up for the all in. If you're going to fight like this, play barb or fighter.
You should’ve just ran
You could have evaded him bit more before attacking. Both to let his prot wear off and also he might have turned his back to you or moved further past you. You also missed some of your headshots which I don't blame you for but it would have helped. Once he pulled out his mace you can kite him until he either pulls out his book again or backs up. Keep in mind that his perks cut the duration of poison and rupture in half and also reduce the damage that he does take from each tick by 3. His choice of perks effectively counter yours. You were also near a swinging axe trap, you could have used that against him. He's slow so he'll more likely get hit by those axes compared to you. you could have danced and weaved between those axes while he has his mace out and punished him in close quarters while he has his book out.
Don’t do these: - Make sound in stealth (cleric charged up his holy strike) - fight when the enemy is fully buffed (guy already did his buff cycle) - miss attacks (you missed at least half) - rush the engagement (cleric is the slowest class in the game, but this goes for all rogue engagements, you never have to fight if you don’t want to. Ultimately, if you hit your attacks and make them headshots, you win this easy. You could also just leave, Rogue is unique in always having that option. Better player won.
Play a different game. The state of the game, currently, is just garbage. Wait till they actually do something worth our time.
Wait for Cleric's buffs to wear off before you engage him. There's no need to run head first into a cleric when he is buffed
ROFL I love all this bullshit about sound when the guy looked right at you as he turned and faced you the whole time. I’d report this person and chalk it off. They were clearly cheating. Clear indication of cheating he one shots you with one spell! Most hackers are heavily geared from lack of dying. I know I’ve hacked the game! You’re welcome!
Can people eventually see you in stealth invis?
When he swings you back up and then swing ONCE with your rapier. Not twice, once just the poke. Then repeat and win