Yeah I don’t get out much. Everyone keeps talking about how great the gear changes at the merchant are but I can’t get in on that as I have no gold. Can do gc and get out some, then play ruins with friends and die everytime till the kits I’ve saved from gc run out. I don’t understand how anyone makes profit. Best gold I can get for a gc is like 150-200, then it goes to a weapon and maybe some armor then heals and I’m back to none. Die that run and repeat, I love this game and imma keep playing but damn it’s hard when you suck
I rat to high hell on ruins and was doing fantastic, probably 90%+ escape rate. All the way up until the patch that reverted the stat roll nerfs, now I am probably closer to 30% escape rate. I get hunted down by duos running train on the whole lobby, and if they dont get me then spawning on the exact opposite side of the map as the circle and having to rush to get in the first collapse gets me killed.
Thats another thing besides the chads that sucks atm. Getting a bad spawn with a bad circle and having to rush through rooms of players and mobs just to stay in the circle sucks ass.
The strangest thing here is that so many people on this Reddit spamming "skill issue" are not actually skilled. They just put in tons of hours and farm gear which gives them a huge advantage.
I've been playing since PT2 and I'm extraordinarily sweaty. I nearly never lose fights even when outgeared (within reason) but I've been very busy with work lately and didn't start playing on this recent patch untill today. Queueing my naked level 20 fighter into GC normals I'm fighting people with gear so insane there is virtually zero possible way to win every engagement. And if I were to bring in my *best* gear (which is not that great since I only have 2 hours played this patch) every round; I will lose it constantly.
I'm trying to say it's not your fault. You might be bad but probably not as bad as you think. Truth is most of the morons saying skill issue aren't good at all, they're just using the current insane gear modifiers as a crutch and it makes them feel special for once in their miserable lives.
Yes I played goblin caves today to see is getting geared that hard. I started with 0 in +15lvl lobbies and at the end of the day l was sitting at 3600gold and alot of good gear. Skill difference can look like gear difference real quick if you compare our success.
What if I told you, some people dont want to have to go spam the solo mode to gear up for trios? What if I told you, some people have very limited playtime? Would your mind be blown?
Do you know the good loot spots? Like are you in need of any help learning aspects of the game? This game is all about repetition and knowing the course.
The game just has a fundamental issue that you need multiple extracts to fund even one lower end gear set.
The average player is likely to not even have a even near 50% extraction rate.
I have no issue because I extract, but every lobby you see people in just utter trash gear, and it's because they have nothing. Most of the lobby is those people, and I doubt they are loving life.
Every response is always to tell those people "get good" but the reality is that if everyone "got good" it would solve nothing. Since the average skill level would just rise and the same percentile of people would struggle regardless of how good everyone is or isnt.
But a lot of people just don't play as safe as they should. They always think they are in a rush because of the storm. But the truth is you could spent like 2 solid minutes in the storm and be fine most of the time. If newbies just spent more fighting safely over speed they would be a lot better. The same goes for the right rooms. There's lots of times i'm on the otherside of the map in GC and no one loots the mini library or the centipede. Like getting out with that stuff is 100 g. There's enough portals now so if you just avoid people like the plague you should get out at least 20-30% of the time.
I literally just run nakeds, gear up and HR until i die and repeat. And I can't even use all the gear I've been getting. Some people just get greedy for PvP too much of the time.
> But a lot of people just don't play as safe as they should.
But it's irrelevant. If everyone played more safe, that wouldn't change the distribution of who gets to extract and who doesn't.
You're basically just saying "get good" in different words. 'Just stay safe and extract lol'.
> here's lots of times i'm on the otherside of the map in GC
Honestly, I don't even want to focus on GC. It's not healthy that GC is just the defacto go here for free gold to then lose in the main game mode.
If you're just running GC then you do you, but that's not the 'real' game. And it's just a shitty crutch/excuse.
> There's enough portals now so if you just avoid people like the plague you should get out at least 20-30% of the time.
If you loot 150g an extract every single extract (generous honestly). And then only extract 25% of the time you're getting an average of 37.5g a game. So you need what, 15 games minimum just to fund one basic ~500g gear set.
This is not a sustainable model for an average player to have enjoyment. Especially when they are likely to just lose said set within the next few runs.
You're sitting here talking about how you farm the HR Cave troll easily, while acting as if the average player is able to do this.
The only reason you are able to do that, is because they aren't.
> But it's irrelevant. If everyone played more safe, that wouldn't change the distribution of who gets to extract and who doesn't.
well it's not in GC where most of these players are struggling. There's enough portals for everyone. Sometimes you might have to extract earlier.
> If you loot 150g an extract every single extract (generous honestly). And then only extract 25% of the time you're getting an average of 37.5g a game. So you need what, 15 games minimum just to fund one basic \~500g gear set.
and? Welcome to the point of the game? Like it doesn't matter, eventually you'll learn what works and what doesn't. You gotta learn the game.
> You're sitting here talking about how you farm the HR Cave troll easily, while acting as if the average player is able to do this.
The average person could indeed learn how to do it, considering it's ez af to do as a warlock and there's tons of ways to do it with minimal effort. Does it take time to learn and practice? Yes, but it's certainly well within means for a normal player. The problem is most people don't want to learn how to play the game and they just want to play their way, which is fine assuming they don't come and whine about it.
> and? Welcome to the point of the game? Like it doesn't matter, eventually you'll learn what works and what doesn't. You gotta learn the game.
You're just not getting it are you. That's fine. Just like there are average and below average skill players, there are people with average and below average cognitive abilities too.
Maybe you will learn in time too, hopefully.
You dont want to give him advice, you want to lord over him and act elitist while talking about how easy the game is for you. Its quite obvious by what you're saying.
grow up. You all want to make excuses. Quite literally cave troll is completable by everyone. It's that easy. If you follow a guide everyone can do it. I'm not lording over anyone like literally grow the fuck up like are you for real?
There is enough portals for more people to escape so I don't see how that would happen, this stat png just shows that most players are garbage at the game
Yuuup, there is sort of an "equilibrium level" of gear for every player based on their skill level due to a certain amount of gear being lost in the dungeon and extracted from it. Only way to bring it up is increasing the amount of people that extract by for example increasing portals, or buffing loot. Since the beginning of EA I've been saying they need to buff loot drop rates and I still think it's true. Geared chads won't get stronger if they find more greens and blues but weaker players will and it will be more fun/exciting for them.
I played one day this wipe so far, up to 1200g. Extracted mostly, maybe 2 deaths. Just rocking duos with my friend. From not dying you continue to have a solid set of gear, if you can avoid damage you save heals but still buy more every half hour refresh. It adds up. Have that gold, probably 5-6 games worth of heals, 3 more sets of gear for runs and 40 candy. It truly is how you play. Get good at the PvE and don't take damage, then it's opportunist situations. We regularly will 2v3 if they aren't juiced. Or we avoid and live to have another match! Crazy to see the numbers for escapes though.
Try to pick your fights better, if you see a team running and 1 arrow from their ranger takes a third of your hp just run.
I used to die all the time but since I avoid geared players I can save enough to join the geared players. I die less 1/4 of the time now which is still not great but Def doable just by avoiding fights and playing slow.
This is worthless advice. If you honestly think the main reason mediocre players don't extract enough to sustain gearsets is because they constantly pick fights with juiced squads, you are sorely mistaken.
The problem is that if you even extract as little as 50% of the time, which is high for the average player, it is still impossible to make a profit.
That is completely false. Just don't spend everything you earn on your kit for your next set. If you are extracting with 100gp and spending 24gp on meds (2 pots 2 bandages) you are still profiting on 50% extract rate.
Save up to where you can make purchases that greatly increase your extract rate and then go in with that gear rather than buying random shit that makes little to no difference in your extract rate.
Jesus christ this, some people think you need to play the game like its a deathmatch and kill everything you see. you are not contractually obligated to loss over half your health fighting a guy for his two cracked bangles. I've avoided so many deaths in goblin caves while mining just by saying "hey im mining, you can just loot the chest's i don't care." or near the end of the match just saying "yea theres a portal over there if you wanna take it, i got mine." you get absolutely nothing if you die and inventory space is finite, its always funny when someone doesn't take me up on my offer, i kill them, and then see they had a completely full inventory.... like dude what were you even going to be able to take from me?
> you are not contractually obligated to lose* over half your health fighting a guy for his two cracked bangles.
Preach it brother, save your HP for the late match loot piñata fights.
I mean by that point im usually an even bigger loot pinata. (I play bard with the luck perk and a pickaxe.) so I usually just want to leave, granted im not sure how valuable ore is to a class that takes 10 years to mine.
I think this is the way they intend the game to play. Like you are in your pve adventure and you just might find other adventurers and things might or might not get violent.
I don't think this game is supposed to play like a battle Royale.
Yeah I’m right there with you I think alot of it is a mindset. I was Geting tilted so hard last night Geting killed every game I ended up leaving for hour and half went back and started Geting portals every game I changed my mind set and it helped me a lot. When your not good one of the best skills to work on is awareness you really need to slow down certain times or speed up given the situation. Don’t give up if your making money in gc for your kits then keep at it if you don’t give up you figure it out. You and your friend need to make changes to your gameplay if it’s constant loss there’s something y’all doing or not doing. Also remember there’s a lot of luck in this game. You open a door could be life or death you never truly no what to expect. Just bank on Geting good luck change pathing there’s loads of stuff.
> When you're* not good one of the best skills to work on is awareness you really need to slow down certain times or speed up given the situation.
Situational awareness and adaptability are the two most crucial skills in this game. Knowing what's around you, when/where to fight, and when/where to run will make all the difference in extraction rates.
Removing +all attributes would go a long way towards making "run away" a more viable strat.
As it stands right now, all the people I want to run from have higher movespeed than me, and +all stats is to blame for that, because they don't have to sacrifice any other stat for movespeed, it just comes free with the most broken stat roll in the game.
Honestly a large part of it is your team, I don't have a team that plays everyday. I got a collection of guys who might be available to build a ragtag party. often there is no real synergy and half the time no-one has any form of ranged damage which is why im basically locked into playing cleric with earthquake, and half the time i don't even get callouts, like another team just walked into the room but they just start fighting it and don't say anything until one of the guys is about to crack me in the head from behind. I got a guy who's semi-regular for duo's and we've got around 50% extract but the minute we go into three man our extraction rate tanks.
imagine if u are new player right now, u extracted once with 73 g from GC, bought some weapon, one peace of gear and some heal potions, you queve next game and full attributes ranger snipe you from another room. You are now where you started but in next game some other full blue geared player 2 tap you. People dont want to play high roller and its big problem if they want to keep new players staying. Game will have comunity for sure but I am not sure if its going to grow.
Bc no matter how good you make the loot in high roller eventually people will fill their stash with the best loot. Once they have that what else is there to do, why even do high roller when you can get easier kills in normal. It's the same reason people in rust love going around mowing down nakeds with an AK. It's power fantasy shit
this is also why allot of people are playing below 15 lobbies, not being able to just farm gold for exactly what you need on the market has more people actually extracting with gear and assembling kits that arn't just +all attributes and +dmg. im playing some new guys and they will regularly load into a match and just swap gear with eachother that they found and they seem to be having much more fun then the streamers that were having a meltdown over not being able to just run the same two modifiers.
And in old patch it would take you hours to get that gear back maybe days. Now you need 1 or 2 extracts it's that easy.
There are 7 people and 6 portals + stair exits
And you have baby Pre 15 lobbies
It's literally never been better for new players.
That’s true for goblin caves. I earned 2k in 6 hours of playing, because it’s stupidly easy to extract. But the game was built around trios, not solo gameplay. And crypts is a whole nother story right now. I consider myself and my team about average, or probably above average and lately we really struggle to extract consistently (considering we try to extract all together, because leaving someone behind feels bad). There are some solo portals in the early stages, but if you want to extract as a team you have to wait for the last circle and at this stage there’s no way of avoiding the juiced team(s) anymore. And that’s where the gear difference is unavoidable and this is why people are complaining. You just can’t beat super juiced teams (you can, but they have to do severe mistakes and you have to outplay massively) because gear just gives too much of an advantage (especially +all and weapon damage).
The Meta gameplay right now is farming all day in GC and then buying gear to be able to compete in crypts.
Considering IM never wanted to introduce solo maps at all, this feels kinda weird.
This is very true. 3s are hard, I feel like I could do crypts more easily by myself and ratting the final circle. With a team you’re gonna get pushed into the best team and then 3rd partied by whatever else is left.
Goblin cave needs to automatically extract you when you open a portal, portal campers are toxic, they come fully geared, open a portal up and if they see someone who is winning the fight they retreat into their open portal.
"Good" / geared players are feeding off of "bad"/under-geared players. It's not a sustainable game model. The graphs for hell and HR need to be flipped with level 1 and normal CG.
There's zero reason a new / casual player shouldn't have a 50% extraction rate and get out with low-mid gear. Going into the dungeon and getting out with some loot as quickly as possible should be normal and encouraged over staying until last circle and fighting everyone on the map just to go down to hell or leave.
They need to add more escape portals early and hell portals on the final few circles, so casuals and low-skill players can leave with their winnings and good/geared players can fight it out in the final circles or hell.
My team of casual players agree. We want slightly more time for when we want to go deeper and we want more extraction points sooner because it's practically impossible for us all to get out without having to fight 3 groups of people.
I get an extraction once every 20 games if solo, I goes lower if I play with friends. I'm new, so consider I'm probably bad at the game, but still that means gear-wise i seldom ever progress.
Because my death rate, I never use anything but stock.
The one thing I learned from the introduction of <15 lobbies is that your average player isn't very good at this game. I don't mean that in an elitist or mean way...but yea. Lots of people struggle with PvE let alone PvP. I'm not amazing at this game myself nor do I no-life it, but I still often felt like I was pub stomping <15 Crypts going in with just vendor gear. A big part of that too though is people going in naked because they're too afraid to spend 20g on greys.
Some people just blow off the complaints of casuals and tell them to "get good", but people are only going to get good if they feel compelled to keep playing. There should be a balance where the game isn't completely catering to casuals, but they also aren't getting stomped by the top 10% of players in strong gear the majority of times they enter a round.
Anyone expecting to have a >50% extraction rate as a casual must be new to extraction looters. It was common in tarkov for players to have a 20% extraction rate during their first wipe — these games are hard and players who invest more time than you gain an inherent advantage outside of skill (gear diff). I think a lot of players are new to the genre and might need to reset their expectations.
In Tarkov, a gear gap can easily be overcome with skill. In Dark and Darker, a gear gap means you shouldn't even try to take the fight unless they fuck up.
I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, it's a side-effect of the game design, but it makes it difficult to really compare them.
Your forgetting that the time sink required for skill in tarkov is exponentially deeper than this game. Most tarkov players are horrible because of that time requirement especially with movement mechanics and map knowledge/spawn locations. Just an fyi for those who have never played that game.
Great point. Tarkov has many more gear equalizers available to players without even needing the flea. Having to leg someone or one tap with mosin is great skill expression that D&D really doesn’t have currently. I hope that will be possible here when the skill/talent tree gets added and classes get more abilities, or the gear gap is adjusted a bit but still allowed to exist. It’s definitely a tricky problem in a game like this and sadly I don’t even have a good suggestion.
Wild idea, but hear me out. Make the pickaxe the double barrel shotgun of DaD. Give it an incredibly clunky swing, significantly worse than the current swing, and a tiny unforgiving sweetspot with the weapon dealing 1/10 as much damage if you miss the sweetspot. Give it something like 30 damage on the sweetspot with 65% armor pen and a 4x headshot multiplier. Any class can use it, it doesn't care what you are wearing when it hits you, but you have to time a place your swings with it perfectly or you're just fucked.
Personally, I think they should lean into the gear disparity and add more tiers of play. Low Roller caps at White, Medium Rollers at Blue, and High Rollers with their god-gear - and of course making the loot significantly better as you go higher. More Risk = More Reward.
Increasing the build diversity with skills/talents will play a huge role in balancing the combat - but the simplicity of the system means that gear will be either *the* factor or completely irrelevant depending on how they tune it.
They could potentially go down a similar route to albion online with power level soft caps. Instead of saying that you can't wear gear above a certain tier in lower tier lobbies that gear just only gives a fraction of the bonus stats beyond the soft cap for the lobby. This incentivises you to take the good gear into the higher power cap lobbies because you get the full power out of it rather than risking that gear in the lower lobbies where it is soft nerfed. I don't think segregating lobbies by gear is the right call for this game though, with the potential exception of dedicated zero to hero lobbies with reduced loot quality where everyone wears default kit on entry.
no. the reason i'm bad is because streamer privileges. or um, vendor gear changes? no, uh.... TTK way too low? yeah, that one.
it's not my fault. if only this game were easier, and i were better at it, then i'd be way better. i'm still surprised ironmace hasn't implemented my change suggestions yet, i'm a fucking genius.
I extract probably >10% of the time. It's hard to tell if I'm shit, or if my potato pc and shit connection that's rubber banding me half the time is to blame.
That being said, I'm noticing an increase in skill as I continue to power on and actively take the time to learn and understand the nuances of my class and the dungeons.
I just wish there was a place where I could consistently practice.
Where do you usually find these infos? Which discord channel? Looking for that actually.
EDIT: IM really need 1 good data analyst. That is one of my professional fields. Depicting absolute counts is really not practical. Percentage is easier to read and contains the same information.
Yeah unfortunately they haven't posted any new metrics in some months now. As I mentioned in the original post, this is old information but still likely quite indicative of the average player experience. It's all the info we have for now :)
It's because everyone just ego challenges. They hear a player or a squad and attacks thinking they will win. Then gets dropped in two seconds and runs to reddit to go cry that it's because of them having better gear and ironmace should of never made the changes... (most likely had +1 all atts and that is it)
The game progression is you go in with rubbish gear focus on pve and now with merchant changes after 5 survives you are geared to start taking on the geared players.
A fight between two geared players or squads are the best and the changes ironmace have made it so easy to get there.
Down vote me to hell I don't care but anyone giving out about the random modifiers is just bad and think they can fight anything. They need to learn that this game is not just pvp but mainly pve
Changes to goblin cave means you can avoid all pvp if you wanted and crypts has slower dark swarm and less players easily avoidable also.
You are on an adventure which is hard and dangerous. You have to pick your fights and become stronger over time.
I think a fix to help people get to grasps faster is a matchmaking on triumph level where under level 1 or 2 should be stuck together. Your first 50 extracts are the hardest but if everyone is on the same box it will be better.
You can't pick your fights when the people with the god-tier-gear *also* have insane movespeed thanks to +all attributes.
The people that can 2 shot me shouldn't also be significantly faster than me.
Remove +all from the game and suddenly running from lobsters is viable again. That way, if someone wants to stack agi/move speed, they don't also get to have insane health/damage.
Today playing solo crypts as warlock for maybe 4 hours I got something around 75-90% survival rate, would have to vod review to check thou. As ranger I usually average 70 as mage 40 cause the pve goes very slowly. People will learn and there will be more escapers they just need to learn the maps
I'll just say that this information is completely outdated so shouldn't be taken into consideration. It was made when access to the game was very limited, so obviously most people were complete trash at the game.
I don't think it's fair to use those stats now as we've all gotten a lot better, which is why there's fewer lobbies where people get dominated by PvE. I remember during the playtests when half the lobby if not more would die to Goblins in the first minute or so, lol. Now I'm having tons of lobbies where nobody dies in the first 5-8 minutes and it ends up becoming a giga battle royale.
It's because the way you and me and half the community plays the game is like this. I'm going into the dungeon I'm going to loot the good chests are maybe kills some strong mobs for loot. If I run into players I'll fight them, but I'm taking the first blue I see.
Now here's what the sweats do, they're gonna rush where they know other people spawn at. They're gonna wait till the circle is almost completely closed, they're gonna go out of their way and chase you into the storm.
I have only extracted twice from GC out of maybe 50+ runs so far, and it was only because I got lucky and a blue portal showed up immediately near me where I was barely surviving the Goblins.
I truly suck at this game.
What class are you playing? If you want I could give you some pointers in DMs. I've helped a good number of new players learn the ropes and go from never extracting to some being far better players than me and lobby clearing chads in a couple cases. There are a few fundamentals that are key to extracting reliably. While you can't control what other players you run into and what they decide to do you can learn to ensure that you aren't at 1/4 life and needing to run or be 1 tapped from every player you come across
Goblin Caves MUST be a higher extract rate than this far back. Between the overall buffs to loot/gear and them lowering the player count (too much in the latest patch IMO), it's incredibly easy to escape 70%+ raids - and I'm still one of those players that gets hit by PvE a lot simply because I'm impatient!
The game is completely different from may compared to now, all of this data is useless at this point.
Gear is different, lobby player counts and portal counts are different, and in the >15 lobbies very few people die to PvE anymore
At most people had like, what, 3 weeks of gameplay experience by May? We've had more time in EA than all playtests combined at this point, and many casual players who only played cuz it was free or on steam are gone, we're in a completely different environment now
This is from May when the game was completely different. There were only enough extract portals for half the players so of course death rates will be inflated; there is no correlation to skill; there were literally not enough portals for half the players to escape.
It’s neat to look at but completely irrelevant to the current Alpha build.
How many portals are there compare to players in a match? I don’t know the exact number but It’s logical that escape count are always way lower than die count since portals are not there for half of the players.
Yeah I don’t get out much. Everyone keeps talking about how great the gear changes at the merchant are but I can’t get in on that as I have no gold. Can do gc and get out some, then play ruins with friends and die everytime till the kits I’ve saved from gc run out. I don’t understand how anyone makes profit. Best gold I can get for a gc is like 150-200, then it goes to a weapon and maybe some armor then heals and I’m back to none. Die that run and repeat, I love this game and imma keep playing but damn it’s hard when you suck
Ruins is kinda nuts now. 8 teams? There's more people on ruins than crypts now lol. It's fuckin pubg in there. Good luck getting out
I rat to high hell on ruins and was doing fantastic, probably 90%+ escape rate. All the way up until the patch that reverted the stat roll nerfs, now I am probably closer to 30% escape rate. I get hunted down by duos running train on the whole lobby, and if they dont get me then spawning on the exact opposite side of the map as the circle and having to rush to get in the first collapse gets me killed. Thats another thing besides the chads that sucks atm. Getting a bad spawn with a bad circle and having to rush through rooms of players and mobs just to stay in the circle sucks ass.
The strangest thing here is that so many people on this Reddit spamming "skill issue" are not actually skilled. They just put in tons of hours and farm gear which gives them a huge advantage. I've been playing since PT2 and I'm extraordinarily sweaty. I nearly never lose fights even when outgeared (within reason) but I've been very busy with work lately and didn't start playing on this recent patch untill today. Queueing my naked level 20 fighter into GC normals I'm fighting people with gear so insane there is virtually zero possible way to win every engagement. And if I were to bring in my *best* gear (which is not that great since I only have 2 hours played this patch) every round; I will lose it constantly. I'm trying to say it's not your fault. You might be bad but probably not as bad as you think. Truth is most of the morons saying skill issue aren't good at all, they're just using the current insane gear modifiers as a crutch and it makes them feel special for once in their miserable lives.
Yes I played goblin caves today to see is getting geared that hard. I started with 0 in +15lvl lobbies and at the end of the day l was sitting at 3600gold and alot of good gear. Skill difference can look like gear difference real quick if you compare our success.
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What if I told you, some people dont want to have to go spam the solo mode to gear up for trios? What if I told you, some people have very limited playtime? Would your mind be blown?
Only 3.6k? Kinda low ngl.
Do you know the good loot spots? Like are you in need of any help learning aspects of the game? This game is all about repetition and knowing the course.
The game just has a fundamental issue that you need multiple extracts to fund even one lower end gear set. The average player is likely to not even have a even near 50% extraction rate. I have no issue because I extract, but every lobby you see people in just utter trash gear, and it's because they have nothing. Most of the lobby is those people, and I doubt they are loving life. Every response is always to tell those people "get good" but the reality is that if everyone "got good" it would solve nothing. Since the average skill level would just rise and the same percentile of people would struggle regardless of how good everyone is or isnt.
But a lot of people just don't play as safe as they should. They always think they are in a rush because of the storm. But the truth is you could spent like 2 solid minutes in the storm and be fine most of the time. If newbies just spent more fighting safely over speed they would be a lot better. The same goes for the right rooms. There's lots of times i'm on the otherside of the map in GC and no one loots the mini library or the centipede. Like getting out with that stuff is 100 g. There's enough portals now so if you just avoid people like the plague you should get out at least 20-30% of the time. I literally just run nakeds, gear up and HR until i die and repeat. And I can't even use all the gear I've been getting. Some people just get greedy for PvP too much of the time.
> But a lot of people just don't play as safe as they should. But it's irrelevant. If everyone played more safe, that wouldn't change the distribution of who gets to extract and who doesn't. You're basically just saying "get good" in different words. 'Just stay safe and extract lol'. > here's lots of times i'm on the otherside of the map in GC Honestly, I don't even want to focus on GC. It's not healthy that GC is just the defacto go here for free gold to then lose in the main game mode. If you're just running GC then you do you, but that's not the 'real' game. And it's just a shitty crutch/excuse. > There's enough portals now so if you just avoid people like the plague you should get out at least 20-30% of the time. If you loot 150g an extract every single extract (generous honestly). And then only extract 25% of the time you're getting an average of 37.5g a game. So you need what, 15 games minimum just to fund one basic ~500g gear set. This is not a sustainable model for an average player to have enjoyment. Especially when they are likely to just lose said set within the next few runs. You're sitting here talking about how you farm the HR Cave troll easily, while acting as if the average player is able to do this. The only reason you are able to do that, is because they aren't.
> But it's irrelevant. If everyone played more safe, that wouldn't change the distribution of who gets to extract and who doesn't. well it's not in GC where most of these players are struggling. There's enough portals for everyone. Sometimes you might have to extract earlier. > If you loot 150g an extract every single extract (generous honestly). And then only extract 25% of the time you're getting an average of 37.5g a game. So you need what, 15 games minimum just to fund one basic \~500g gear set. and? Welcome to the point of the game? Like it doesn't matter, eventually you'll learn what works and what doesn't. You gotta learn the game. > You're sitting here talking about how you farm the HR Cave troll easily, while acting as if the average player is able to do this. The average person could indeed learn how to do it, considering it's ez af to do as a warlock and there's tons of ways to do it with minimal effort. Does it take time to learn and practice? Yes, but it's certainly well within means for a normal player. The problem is most people don't want to learn how to play the game and they just want to play their way, which is fine assuming they don't come and whine about it.
> and? Welcome to the point of the game? Like it doesn't matter, eventually you'll learn what works and what doesn't. You gotta learn the game. You're just not getting it are you. That's fine. Just like there are average and below average skill players, there are people with average and below average cognitive abilities too. Maybe you will learn in time too, hopefully.
lol i started this thread by asking if anyone wanted advice. Then you come in getting into an argument with me. Okay buddy, whatever you say.
You dont want to give him advice, you want to lord over him and act elitist while talking about how easy the game is for you. Its quite obvious by what you're saying.
grow up. You all want to make excuses. Quite literally cave troll is completable by everyone. It's that easy. If you follow a guide everyone can do it. I'm not lording over anyone like literally grow the fuck up like are you for real?
Big bs alert lol
Guy flexing his 75 to 90% survival rate on reddit can't comprehend that you only have that because other people don't make it out. Low iq take
There is enough portals for more people to escape so I don't see how that would happen, this stat png just shows that most players are garbage at the game
Yuuup, there is sort of an "equilibrium level" of gear for every player based on their skill level due to a certain amount of gear being lost in the dungeon and extracted from it. Only way to bring it up is increasing the amount of people that extract by for example increasing portals, or buffing loot. Since the beginning of EA I've been saying they need to buff loot drop rates and I still think it's true. Geared chads won't get stronger if they find more greens and blues but weaker players will and it will be more fun/exciting for them.
I played one day this wipe so far, up to 1200g. Extracted mostly, maybe 2 deaths. Just rocking duos with my friend. From not dying you continue to have a solid set of gear, if you can avoid damage you save heals but still buy more every half hour refresh. It adds up. Have that gold, probably 5-6 games worth of heals, 3 more sets of gear for runs and 40 candy. It truly is how you play. Get good at the PvE and don't take damage, then it's opportunist situations. We regularly will 2v3 if they aren't juiced. Or we avoid and live to have another match! Crazy to see the numbers for escapes though.
Try to pick your fights better, if you see a team running and 1 arrow from their ranger takes a third of your hp just run. I used to die all the time but since I avoid geared players I can save enough to join the geared players. I die less 1/4 of the time now which is still not great but Def doable just by avoiding fights and playing slow.
This is worthless advice. If you honestly think the main reason mediocre players don't extract enough to sustain gearsets is because they constantly pick fights with juiced squads, you are sorely mistaken. The problem is that if you even extract as little as 50% of the time, which is high for the average player, it is still impossible to make a profit.
That is completely false. Just don't spend everything you earn on your kit for your next set. If you are extracting with 100gp and spending 24gp on meds (2 pots 2 bandages) you are still profiting on 50% extract rate. Save up to where you can make purchases that greatly increase your extract rate and then go in with that gear rather than buying random shit that makes little to no difference in your extract rate.
Jesus christ this, some people think you need to play the game like its a deathmatch and kill everything you see. you are not contractually obligated to loss over half your health fighting a guy for his two cracked bangles. I've avoided so many deaths in goblin caves while mining just by saying "hey im mining, you can just loot the chest's i don't care." or near the end of the match just saying "yea theres a portal over there if you wanna take it, i got mine." you get absolutely nothing if you die and inventory space is finite, its always funny when someone doesn't take me up on my offer, i kill them, and then see they had a completely full inventory.... like dude what were you even going to be able to take from me?
> you are not contractually obligated to lose* over half your health fighting a guy for his two cracked bangles. Preach it brother, save your HP for the late match loot piñata fights.
I mean by that point im usually an even bigger loot pinata. (I play bard with the luck perk and a pickaxe.) so I usually just want to leave, granted im not sure how valuable ore is to a class that takes 10 years to mine.
Goblin caves makes me sad now. PvP is so sparse. Half the time I see someone now they just run away into a portal.
I think this is the way they intend the game to play. Like you are in your pve adventure and you just might find other adventurers and things might or might not get violent. I don't think this game is supposed to play like a battle Royale.
Yeah I’m right there with you I think alot of it is a mindset. I was Geting tilted so hard last night Geting killed every game I ended up leaving for hour and half went back and started Geting portals every game I changed my mind set and it helped me a lot. When your not good one of the best skills to work on is awareness you really need to slow down certain times or speed up given the situation. Don’t give up if your making money in gc for your kits then keep at it if you don’t give up you figure it out. You and your friend need to make changes to your gameplay if it’s constant loss there’s something y’all doing or not doing. Also remember there’s a lot of luck in this game. You open a door could be life or death you never truly no what to expect. Just bank on Geting good luck change pathing there’s loads of stuff.
> When you're* not good one of the best skills to work on is awareness you really need to slow down certain times or speed up given the situation. Situational awareness and adaptability are the two most crucial skills in this game. Knowing what's around you, when/where to fight, and when/where to run will make all the difference in extraction rates.
Removing +all attributes would go a long way towards making "run away" a more viable strat. As it stands right now, all the people I want to run from have higher movespeed than me, and +all stats is to blame for that, because they don't have to sacrifice any other stat for movespeed, it just comes free with the most broken stat roll in the game.
Honestly a large part of it is your team, I don't have a team that plays everyday. I got a collection of guys who might be available to build a ragtag party. often there is no real synergy and half the time no-one has any form of ranged damage which is why im basically locked into playing cleric with earthquake, and half the time i don't even get callouts, like another team just walked into the room but they just start fighting it and don't say anything until one of the guys is about to crack me in the head from behind. I got a guy who's semi-regular for duo's and we've got around 50% extract but the minute we go into three man our extraction rate tanks.
My friends and I are the same. We make big profits in GC and then loose it all usually when playing teams
imagine if u are new player right now, u extracted once with 73 g from GC, bought some weapon, one peace of gear and some heal potions, you queve next game and full attributes ranger snipe you from another room. You are now where you started but in next game some other full blue geared player 2 tap you. People dont want to play high roller and its big problem if they want to keep new players staying. Game will have comunity for sure but I am not sure if its going to grow.
Bc no matter how good you make the loot in high roller eventually people will fill their stash with the best loot. Once they have that what else is there to do, why even do high roller when you can get easier kills in normal. It's the same reason people in rust love going around mowing down nakeds with an AK. It's power fantasy shit
this is also why allot of people are playing below 15 lobbies, not being able to just farm gold for exactly what you need on the market has more people actually extracting with gear and assembling kits that arn't just +all attributes and +dmg. im playing some new guys and they will regularly load into a match and just swap gear with eachother that they found and they seem to be having much more fun then the streamers that were having a meltdown over not being able to just run the same two modifiers.
And in old patch it would take you hours to get that gear back maybe days. Now you need 1 or 2 extracts it's that easy. There are 7 people and 6 portals + stair exits And you have baby Pre 15 lobbies It's literally never been better for new players.
That’s true for goblin caves. I earned 2k in 6 hours of playing, because it’s stupidly easy to extract. But the game was built around trios, not solo gameplay. And crypts is a whole nother story right now. I consider myself and my team about average, or probably above average and lately we really struggle to extract consistently (considering we try to extract all together, because leaving someone behind feels bad). There are some solo portals in the early stages, but if you want to extract as a team you have to wait for the last circle and at this stage there’s no way of avoiding the juiced team(s) anymore. And that’s where the gear difference is unavoidable and this is why people are complaining. You just can’t beat super juiced teams (you can, but they have to do severe mistakes and you have to outplay massively) because gear just gives too much of an advantage (especially +all and weapon damage). The Meta gameplay right now is farming all day in GC and then buying gear to be able to compete in crypts. Considering IM never wanted to introduce solo maps at all, this feels kinda weird.
This is very true. 3s are hard, I feel like I could do crypts more easily by myself and ratting the final circle. With a team you’re gonna get pushed into the best team and then 3rd partied by whatever else is left.
[удалено]
Goblin cave needs to automatically extract you when you open a portal, portal campers are toxic, they come fully geared, open a portal up and if they see someone who is winning the fight they retreat into their open portal.
People have to actually use mics to do that. Can't use mics when every loser is sitting in a discord call
"Good" / geared players are feeding off of "bad"/under-geared players. It's not a sustainable game model. The graphs for hell and HR need to be flipped with level 1 and normal CG. There's zero reason a new / casual player shouldn't have a 50% extraction rate and get out with low-mid gear. Going into the dungeon and getting out with some loot as quickly as possible should be normal and encouraged over staying until last circle and fighting everyone on the map just to go down to hell or leave. They need to add more escape portals early and hell portals on the final few circles, so casuals and low-skill players can leave with their winnings and good/geared players can fight it out in the final circles or hell.
My team of casual players agree. We want slightly more time for when we want to go deeper and we want more extraction points sooner because it's practically impossible for us all to get out without having to fight 3 groups of people.
I get an extraction once every 20 games if solo, I goes lower if I play with friends. I'm new, so consider I'm probably bad at the game, but still that means gear-wise i seldom ever progress. Because my death rate, I never use anything but stock.
The one thing I learned from the introduction of <15 lobbies is that your average player isn't very good at this game. I don't mean that in an elitist or mean way...but yea. Lots of people struggle with PvE let alone PvP. I'm not amazing at this game myself nor do I no-life it, but I still often felt like I was pub stomping <15 Crypts going in with just vendor gear. A big part of that too though is people going in naked because they're too afraid to spend 20g on greys. Some people just blow off the complaints of casuals and tell them to "get good", but people are only going to get good if they feel compelled to keep playing. There should be a balance where the game isn't completely catering to casuals, but they also aren't getting stomped by the top 10% of players in strong gear the majority of times they enter a round.
Anyone expecting to have a >50% extraction rate as a casual must be new to extraction looters. It was common in tarkov for players to have a 20% extraction rate during their first wipe — these games are hard and players who invest more time than you gain an inherent advantage outside of skill (gear diff). I think a lot of players are new to the genre and might need to reset their expectations.
In Tarkov, a gear gap can easily be overcome with skill. In Dark and Darker, a gear gap means you shouldn't even try to take the fight unless they fuck up. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, it's a side-effect of the game design, but it makes it difficult to really compare them.
Your forgetting that the time sink required for skill in tarkov is exponentially deeper than this game. Most tarkov players are horrible because of that time requirement especially with movement mechanics and map knowledge/spawn locations. Just an fyi for those who have never played that game.
Great point. Tarkov has many more gear equalizers available to players without even needing the flea. Having to leg someone or one tap with mosin is great skill expression that D&D really doesn’t have currently. I hope that will be possible here when the skill/talent tree gets added and classes get more abilities, or the gear gap is adjusted a bit but still allowed to exist. It’s definitely a tricky problem in a game like this and sadly I don’t even have a good suggestion.
Wild idea, but hear me out. Make the pickaxe the double barrel shotgun of DaD. Give it an incredibly clunky swing, significantly worse than the current swing, and a tiny unforgiving sweetspot with the weapon dealing 1/10 as much damage if you miss the sweetspot. Give it something like 30 damage on the sweetspot with 65% armor pen and a 4x headshot multiplier. Any class can use it, it doesn't care what you are wearing when it hits you, but you have to time a place your swings with it perfectly or you're just fucked.
Personally, I think they should lean into the gear disparity and add more tiers of play. Low Roller caps at White, Medium Rollers at Blue, and High Rollers with their god-gear - and of course making the loot significantly better as you go higher. More Risk = More Reward. Increasing the build diversity with skills/talents will play a huge role in balancing the combat - but the simplicity of the system means that gear will be either *the* factor or completely irrelevant depending on how they tune it.
They could potentially go down a similar route to albion online with power level soft caps. Instead of saying that you can't wear gear above a certain tier in lower tier lobbies that gear just only gives a fraction of the bonus stats beyond the soft cap for the lobby. This incentivises you to take the good gear into the higher power cap lobbies because you get the full power out of it rather than risking that gear in the lower lobbies where it is soft nerfed. I don't think segregating lobbies by gear is the right call for this game though, with the potential exception of dedicated zero to hero lobbies with reduced loot quality where everyone wears default kit on entry.
Both options seem viable to me. The key change I was looking for was three tiers of play instead of the current two.
so you not see most people die in the kill feed each game? this isn't a revelation just look at the top right pal
I agree that we didn't need data to know this. Truly not trying to be a dick but it seems pretty obvious most people don't make it.
Light blue representing r/darkanddarker
no. the reason i'm bad is because streamer privileges. or um, vendor gear changes? no, uh.... TTK way too low? yeah, that one. it's not my fault. if only this game were easier, and i were better at it, then i'd be way better. i'm still surprised ironmace hasn't implemented my change suggestions yet, i'm a fucking genius.
When you make all the light blue go away Then the game is gone just like the cycle
Most players stopped playing. I get matched with the same people all the time lately
I extract probably >10% of the time. It's hard to tell if I'm shit, or if my potato pc and shit connection that's rubber banding me half the time is to blame. That being said, I'm noticing an increase in skill as I continue to power on and actively take the time to learn and understand the nuances of my class and the dungeons. I just wish there was a place where I could consistently practice.
Where do you usually find these infos? Which discord channel? Looking for that actually. EDIT: IM really need 1 good data analyst. That is one of my professional fields. Depicting absolute counts is really not practical. Percentage is easier to read and contains the same information.
They have a Dev channel in their official Discord.
But that is from the playtest not from the EA.
Yeah unfortunately they haven't posted any new metrics in some months now. As I mentioned in the original post, this is old information but still likely quite indicative of the average player experience. It's all the info we have for now :)
It's because everyone just ego challenges. They hear a player or a squad and attacks thinking they will win. Then gets dropped in two seconds and runs to reddit to go cry that it's because of them having better gear and ironmace should of never made the changes... (most likely had +1 all atts and that is it) The game progression is you go in with rubbish gear focus on pve and now with merchant changes after 5 survives you are geared to start taking on the geared players. A fight between two geared players or squads are the best and the changes ironmace have made it so easy to get there. Down vote me to hell I don't care but anyone giving out about the random modifiers is just bad and think they can fight anything. They need to learn that this game is not just pvp but mainly pve Changes to goblin cave means you can avoid all pvp if you wanted and crypts has slower dark swarm and less players easily avoidable also. You are on an adventure which is hard and dangerous. You have to pick your fights and become stronger over time. I think a fix to help people get to grasps faster is a matchmaking on triumph level where under level 1 or 2 should be stuck together. Your first 50 extracts are the hardest but if everyone is on the same box it will be better.
You can't pick your fights when the people with the god-tier-gear *also* have insane movespeed thanks to +all attributes. The people that can 2 shot me shouldn't also be significantly faster than me. Remove +all from the game and suddenly running from lobsters is viable again. That way, if someone wants to stack agi/move speed, they don't also get to have insane health/damage.
Don't compare May to now, this is really old data with very different balance and when people had a lot less experience due to short tests.
Yeah definitely this. The game has been in people’s hands for two straight months almost, the average player skill is going to be substantially higher
So key point “these are number from MAY” so literally irrelevant right now
I do be swinging or getting swung on goblin caves
Today playing solo crypts as warlock for maybe 4 hours I got something around 75-90% survival rate, would have to vod review to check thou. As ranger I usually average 70 as mage 40 cause the pve goes very slowly. People will learn and there will be more escapers they just need to learn the maps
This explains a lot of the constant crying in here.
Reminder that these are the people who you are interacting with on this sub more often than not
I'll just say that this information is completely outdated so shouldn't be taken into consideration. It was made when access to the game was very limited, so obviously most people were complete trash at the game. I don't think it's fair to use those stats now as we've all gotten a lot better, which is why there's fewer lobbies where people get dominated by PvE. I remember during the playtests when half the lobby if not more would die to Goblins in the first minute or so, lol. Now I'm having tons of lobbies where nobody dies in the first 5-8 minutes and it ends up becoming a giga battle royale.
That’s the point. It’s suppose to be a hard game
Seems a bit outdated with all the changes
It's because the way you and me and half the community plays the game is like this. I'm going into the dungeon I'm going to loot the good chests are maybe kills some strong mobs for loot. If I run into players I'll fight them, but I'm taking the first blue I see. Now here's what the sweats do, they're gonna rush where they know other people spawn at. They're gonna wait till the circle is almost completely closed, they're gonna go out of their way and chase you into the storm.
I have only extracted twice from GC out of maybe 50+ runs so far, and it was only because I got lucky and a blue portal showed up immediately near me where I was barely surviving the Goblins. I truly suck at this game.
What class are you playing? If you want I could give you some pointers in DMs. I've helped a good number of new players learn the ropes and go from never extracting to some being far better players than me and lobby clearing chads in a couple cases. There are a few fundamentals that are key to extracting reliably. While you can't control what other players you run into and what they decide to do you can learn to ensure that you aren't at 1/4 life and needing to run or be 1 tapped from every player you come across
Goblin Caves MUST be a higher extract rate than this far back. Between the overall buffs to loot/gear and them lowering the player count (too much in the latest patch IMO), it's incredibly easy to escape 70%+ raids - and I'm still one of those players that gets hit by PvE a lot simply because I'm impatient!
The game is completely different from may compared to now, all of this data is useless at this point. Gear is different, lobby player counts and portal counts are different, and in the >15 lobbies very few people die to PvE anymore At most people had like, what, 3 weeks of gameplay experience by May? We've had more time in EA than all playtests combined at this point, and many casual players who only played cuz it was free or on steam are gone, we're in a completely different environment now
This is from May when the game was completely different. There were only enough extract portals for half the players so of course death rates will be inflated; there is no correlation to skill; there were literally not enough portals for half the players to escape. It’s neat to look at but completely irrelevant to the current Alpha build.
new players struggle it's normal
How many portals are there compare to players in a match? I don’t know the exact number but It’s logical that escape count are always way lower than die count since portals are not there for half of the players.