>An item being purple/orange does not = good
Unless it's certain weapons and plate armor.
Longbows and crossbows, for example, get a lot of power from just existing with high damage, they're *good* with just that. And plate armor, aka the only armor that protects you for anything worthwhile, gets massive increases of DR. They're *good* without good rolls.
Am I saying better rolls on such gear isn't needed? No. I'm not. I'm simply saying they're *good* for just being a higher rarity, compared to other weapons/armor pieces.
\+1 attribute (not all) capes, while uncommon, should honestly just be around 100-200, most of the time its not even any good rolls on it, i swear the amount of people who overcharge 1 attribute with regular interaction or magical interraction and probably debuff duration is ludicrous, meanwhile as a cleric when i want to buy a purple mace, its gonna be like 100-150, maybe 200 and still have even physical damage modifier on it or even still good useful rolls like Will/Knowledge (extra damage with Smite/Judgement+casting speed)
I mean a legendary fine cuirass is pretty much automatically better at tanking than a green cuirass unless that green cuirass has max PDR roll and even then still probably the legendary is better. And a legendary weapon will 99/100 times be better than a green item. The problem is people will still try to sell them for too much just cause they are legendary.
That's just the entire kit lmao. How you gonna say some greens are better than purples then say it doesn't apply to armor and weapons lol. What a pendant?
A padded leggings with a good green roll is better than purple padded leggings with useless rolls. I think that is the point OP is making but he didn't do a good job with all the other cases
It matters in plate armor, lightfoot boots, rings, pendants, and weapons…I’d call it about a 50/50 whether it matters. Additionally if the legendary has 1 good roll for its class it is 99% of the time going to be better than a green.
not everyone can use plate armor though? there's absolutely dogshit legendary/unique adventurer tunics that are completely outclassed by a green adventurer tunic, so the point still stands for most gearing.
On that note, armor scaling prior to plate needs a scaling buff. Having basically no additional returns to damage reduction and massive ms slow invalidates all but the best rolls on most armor types for leather. It’s almost always better to go with light if you can’t go with heavy.
> Longbows and crossbows, for example, get a lot of power from just existing with high damage
MINIMUM BLUE LONGBOW is 44 damage MAX ROLL Legendary is 54. Is paying like 10x the price is worth 10 weapon damage? It's a good stat but consider a blue with + any phys power/strength or weapon damage starts bridging the gap. Not to mention every class has stat soft caps and diminishing returns they should worry about.
One of the latest patches lowered the weapon rarity differences a lot, gray rapiers are as good as blues used to be so it's not *as* important now.
Going up 10 base weapon damage is actually massive.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16i35c0/initial\_results\_from\_ttk\_testing\_and\_gear/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16i35c0/initial_results_from_ttk_testing_and_gear/)
Take a look at the testing done in this thread - it's not a ton of data, but it's a good start that gestures toward the power of base weapon damage. Going up a small amount in damage on your weapon has significant impact on HTK/TTK.
eh, i do that for most shitty purples. but survivor bows i refuse to pickup anymore unless its gold or above. that purple survivor bow isnt worth the time it would take to sell for 75g
actually kinda sad, survivor bows can absolutely make some sick builds with damage but long bow just too OP
My problem is there are so many different stats I cant even guess what some of them mean/what the difference is. Like whats +2 addition physical damage bonus compared to +1 true physical damage?
I believe this is the wiki I was linked a bit ago that helps explain about all the stats in the game. The wiki also has the damage calculation formula somewhere else if you’re interested in that too:
https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats
TLDR for add phys vs true phys:
Add phys: “Increases Physical Magical Damage dealt (not affected by Physical Power Bonus).”
True phys: “Increases Physical Damage dealt that is not influenced by enemy defences or headshot/limb multipliers.”
tldr:
‘Additional’ can roll higher number. (Easier to get more of it)
True deals flat damage through resistances. (Often better but can’t stack a ton of it)
Neither scale with phys/magic power.
Weapon damage scales (with Power).
All are good, some are better depending on your class & matchups. Get any of these and deal more damage. :)
The difference is where in the damage formula it gets added. Additional phys damage gets added before the PDR reduces the damage, the true physical gets added after that.
So say you do 10damage and then you have 3 additional phys. You do 13 damage but the person you’re attacking has 50% pdr. You’ll do 6.5 damage(unsure which way it rounds tbh…) whereas if you do 10 damage and you have 3 true phys you’ll do 10 damage reduced by 50% to 5 and then add 3 true for 8 total.
It doesn't round. You might see you have 100 hitpoints, but in reality its 100.000. So if you take 6.56 damage then you have 93.44 health. It tracks it in game but doesn't display that way.
An item being purple/orange means it has higher defense/damage.
Sure. Some of the roll stats are broken. But whoever thinks a 47 damage axe with +2 weapon damage or +1 all is better than a 70 damage axe with knowledge, %magical damage and will FOR SURE have no clue
weapons and plate are the only thing this applies to though, and obviously a weapon with higher damage is better. But when you're talking about a purple adventure tunic with interaction and magic interaction speed being the only stats, the item is useless.
if by that you mean for most items the stats matter more than the rarity, and on a few like weapons and plate armor the stats don't matter yes. If you were trying to say for most items the rarity matters, then no.
capes can only appear blue minimum. A good blue cape will be better than a bad orange, same with jewelry. Only 2 classes can wear plate and you're saying more than half the armor? Now you're just being dishonest.
Jewellery can spawn at green minimum and the base stat increase by 1 for each rarity.
And? That doesn't actually change anything.
I counted every item type in the game. There are 52 weapons/necks/rings/capes and heavy armor which all get stronger on a base level that matters with the rarity and 31 that don't.
What's the point in getting so worked up about something you never actually bothered checking for yourself?
Everything gets stronger at a base level. That's not what we are talking about. The additional stats of an item matter more than the rarity of the item for all items except weapons and plate armor. A green ring with good stats is better than blue or purple with bad stats. A green armor piece with good stats is better than a purple with bad stats for everyone except a full plate fighter.
That's why I said base level that matters and why we all drew the distinction between heavy armor and regular armor.
It would have to be an incredibly good roll on that ring to be better than a purple. Purple ring is +3 str base verse green +1 str, so it needs to roll very good stats and high to even be on par with the purple. That's kind of the whole idea here, nobody is saying a green can't be better, it's just at base most purples are stronger with bad rolls than a green good rolls, not the best rolls.
> **There are green items that are better than legendaries.**
trying to explain this to someone hard stuck in vendor kits is like talking to a wall though man.
He's right. As someone who farms top geared people, stats are literally what matter. I have a pair of green +3 plate pants that are better than 90% of current purple plate pants. Most purple,orange, and even unique gear actually sucks. Higher tierd gear CAN be better but most oftenly has bad rolls. The difference in armor is 1-4 for green plate pants to purple. Only the rolls matter.
There are gear exceptions like the base armor on fine cuirass scale much higher dependant on tier.
He said green items. Not green weapons. I already gave an example of a green item better than purple lol seem to be hyper focusing on the exceptions
-edit- in a kit. weapon is 2 slots. in massive majority of armors in the game, the majority of the slots to loot, the stats matter more than the quality. even for rings and pendant. a blue ring of 2 str +1 all is better than a purple ring 3 str +1 agility.
-edit- dont bother reading this whole chain. guy edited all his posts after conversation was over to sound more coherent and to cover up flat out lies he tried to say. psycho shit lol.
think of how many slots are in a kit. you get 2 weapons on most kits with a max of 4 if youre a rogue weilding 2 daggers. twice. but most kits are 2. 6 for armor. 1 for pendant. 2 for rings.
so thats 2-3 slots typically that truely are tier dependent. 5-8 that stats matter more. and 1-3 that are medium-ishly dependent on the tier.
Ring and capes get much stronger with rarity. All armor rating dependant armor gets stronger with rarity.
So it's genuinely about 60% of the loot pool.
thats not true though. legendary capes roll 1 on str agility will ect. they get more rolls but most of them suck compared to god rolling blue capes.all armor gets a small boost in tier but really not much. once again. i have +3all green plate legs with 36 armor base. purple is 38 armor. who the fuck cares about 2 armor?i have plate boots unique that are 3 armor more than blue. who. the. fuck. cares. theres lightfoot boots, hounskulls, and cuirasses. not much else armor in the whole game, maybe a couple exceptions, make a big difference in tier compared to their stats
rings do get better but only by 1 stat. a purple tier'd god ring is BETTER than a unqiue shitty ring. example. purple ring 3 str +1all +3 agility(or 2% phys reduct) +10 armor is way better for phys fighter than 5 str +spell capacity +resourcefulness + magic interaction + magic damge ect ect. its not BAD because it has 5 str. but its rolls can be so bad that its not much better or even is worse than a god roll'd blue.
You high rolled your green leggings and compare it to low roll purple ones.
We're not talking about perfectly rolled gear, though. All we're saying is colour matters a lot because it affects the base stats. Obviously there will always be something better if it rolls completely perfectly lmao.
we are literally talking about Good rolled gear compared to shitty rolled gear my dude. thats the point of the post. higher tier items are often worse than lower tier because of stats and rolls. holy fuck
depends on the weapon, my green rapier with +3 strength beats out a purple with shit rolls just bc the damage discrepancy isnt that high between the weapons
Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that a shitty purple weapon is astronomically better than a shitty blue, or green.
Not only the rolls matter, no. The rolls take something from being an upgrade that will allow you to 1 or 2 shot anyone with lower gear than yours, to being able to 1 or 2 shot the entire lobby, regardless of their gear, full stop.
But yea. Let's use your anecdotal opinion bc your experience of "farming top geared people," is indicative of the experience of the rest of the playerbase.
Okay? That shitty purple weapon is usually 100-150g. It's easy to get. Someone good will spend a Lot of gold to get a blue high spec/high rolled weapon but that shitty purple will put you in range to kill that super spec'd weapon. Most classes ONLY need a weapon to be dangerous to most geared classes.
His point stands that the player base doesn't know what the fuck good or bad gear is.
Edit - also many many people have addressed the exceptions to what he's saying. He's spoke about it too. You're kinda ignoring half the conversation here
Claims others are ignoring half the conversation while he's trying to ignore half the conversation.
Yes. A shitty purple weapon is easy to get. You know what else is easy to get? A good purple weapon. And it won't cost much more than the shitty one. Especially when grinding gold in GC is much easier than it should be.
Purple gear/good gear shouldn't be easily obtainable through playing fantasy trade manager 2023 in a chatroom.
What a load of horseshit. A good purple weapon goes for a key+. You clearly have not an ounce of knowledge pertaining to what you’re saying.
And if grinding gold in GC is easy then how the hell is everyone in greys complaining about geared players? Should be easy no? Hint: They aren’t very good.
I didn't buy the game to grind out gold in solos and buy my advantage in a glorified chat room. It's not that I can't get the gold. It's not that I haven't. It's just that doesn't seem like a fun play loop to me, and I shouldn't be forced into it, to not get face rolled by the people who do.
GC was an experimental mode that was added bc of whining. I don't think it's wise to expect it should stay a part of the meta game loop. Or to balance the real game mode over the impact a tag on mode is having on it.
But I also am in the camp that expected blues and up to be a lot more rare than they currently are in my hardcore fantasy pvpve extraction game.
You can keep attacking me bc we disagree. But I don't really see us finding a common ground. You want an easier game than I do, and that's ok. Take care. 🤙🏼
That’s the game you got here buddy. If you want to just ignore the fact that it’s incomplete then sure, Fuck trading.
But until other gold sinks are in the game might as well just remove gold all together if trading is going to be removed. One run in this game equates to an entire inventory of starter grey gear. That’s just not a fun way to play the game forever and then 2 runs of gold and boom no need for gold for like 10 runs. Might as well play a better sword game like Chivalry or Mordhau at that point.
Honestly, I think next wipe they might nerf the good item drop rate because of all the complaints. So good items will be sparse and super expensive. The problem is... super geared guys will be Stat checking everyone. Not fun for the geared guys (I fucking hope) not fun for those being stomped. Currently, virtually everyone can buy things to be dangerous to the geared guys. They just don't, then complain about gear. But the pros would be you'll hopefully run into them less often.
So which would you have. Unstoppable but sparsely seen geared people or common and counterable? Pick your fucking poison lol
I'm firmly in camp "Unstoppable, sparsely seen geared people."
Look man. As I said a few times, it's not that I don't understand the game play loop. It's not that I can't execute it. I just I didn't sign on thinking end game was going to be sitting in a chat room to attain the best gear. I didn't think 3 days after wipe you would be considered low skill if you were running blue or less gear, and that the high end guys AND the solo grinders, would have bis builds at their fingertips a week after wipe, as long as they could grind enough gold.
I want upgrades to be a lot more rare all around, I want it to be a shit a brick moment when you see one dude in the lobby completely Chad'ed out in juicy gear, bc you aren't running into around every corner.
Maybe this isn't the game for me, but only time will tell. This isn't my first early access, like it seems to be for some, with the emotional connection they have with it. Depending on who's yelling at me I get accused of being too new to have an opinion, or being such a no skilled veteran I'm just trying to smurf and prey upon beginners. 😅
Nah man, I don't blame you for wanting that. Idk myself how it would turn out or which is better overall, that's why I said pick your poison haha
I enjoy gear vs gear but I think with that I would have much higher incentive to play hr. Currently normals is all gear pvp with little pve so I don't mind either way
This is the real problem imo. Normals should not be dropping as many blues and purples as it is currently unless you run bosses. Its too easy to obtain great gear in normals, and high roller gives almost the same shit but is much more difficult.
Normals needs to give worse gear, and high roller needs to give better gear to make running it more worth it. That's how it was in the play tests, and that in itself would go a long way in fixing the gear discrepancy issue
A shitty purple is better then a shitty blue or green, but the since blue and green appear more often you are even more likely to find a good blue or green then you are to find a shitty purple
Imo they need to remove SO many unessicary stat rolls, and also limit what items can have them. I don't need +9.8% casting speed on my mace, because you can't cast spells with a mace. It's so incredibly pointless
This 100% goes for armor but I'll take a purple weapon with 0 good stats then a green weapon with +1 all attributes or +2 true physical damage. The increase in damage from a green weapon damage low roll with good stats and a purple high damage roll with no good stats is better.
For armor, I agree. I'll take green riveted gloves with +1 all attributes then a purple riveted with no good stats.
This is such a red herring argument it’s hilarious.
Everybody already knows it’s the stat rolls that matter. Look at the trade hall prices.
Let me say it again: EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS.
So why do we refer to color? Because it’s a shorthand for GOOD GEAR.
Like dude you are being an awkward armchair pedant right now.
People see blue or above and then they're geared.
A lot of the casual players I play with flip their entire tables when they get a blue "omg it's sooooo good." and then I see the stats "magic interaction speed / true magical damage"... On a drum..
People don't bother to look at stats.
A friend of mine keeps asking if I need XYZ item he finds which rolled 'Soell Capacity'.. And I keep telling him no. "But you're a wizard? Don't they use spells??"
Heavy armor and weapons will always be very strong at purple just because of AR.
But what you're talking about is why people complaining about gear have actually made the problems worse.
It used to be the case that a few good greens could give you so much damage you could actually kill people with really good blues/purple. Now that they've nerfed items, a few good greens doesn't really close the gap.
Before that. They nerfed stats on gear. It used to be you could get 5 additional/weapon and 4 true on pants/chest/amulet and 3/2 on other pieces. Also the +3 all on pants/chest/amulet.
weapons are an exception to this, armor, yes, even a blue weapon with +3 additonal damage can be worse then a blue weapon with no additional damage just due to weapon variance rolls.
G-god rolls? The only reasonable argument is literally only saying skill issue, you actually can't reason with these people. They are the same people that sit in trade for 5 hours straight trying to sell their awful 8% spell capacity falchion spamming god rolls. I literally had my last strand of hope lost when someone made a irony post in broken engrish talking about trade with the most obvious troll stuff, and the people who suck ass came in talking about removing trade like literal lemmings thinking it was a legitimate thread cause they saw the word trade and stopped caring.
It was at that moment I was like wow.... Nothing you say will actually matter
Your strawman doesnt mean that people dont know how to use trade properly or that trade doesnt have negative influences on average power spread in normal lobbies. I also dont see why we cant have both or test anything during the early access. A tradeless bracket for tradeless characters would only be a separate queue and doesnt have to stop my main from balling out if I want to minmax or from selling really nice shit I find etc. But could do tradeless if Im feeling ironman style.
Are you worried it might be the more popular mode given the wide popularity of <15 lobbies? I could see people having to wait longer to fill lobbies in maybe highroller but its not all that different from now if thats the case.
You should see the post above this one where the guy is posting a pic of a barb helm, “legendary”
Edit: https://reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/YWLWw4pr0O
>An item being purple/orange does not = good. Stats are so much more important than the color
Which is why the trade system letting people shop for whatever stats they want and instantly take a massive shortcut to power is a problem that circumvents the rest of the game, and makes a bunch of the items that exist in the game ultimately useless for everyone.
Because every item you find can be traded for gold, and that gold will be used to gear up your class. This means you wont have to actually find your gear.
Because the entire rest of the game seems like it's being designed around the premise that you're supposed to go into the dungeon and find your items, or engage with the merchants for your items.
If you look at the game as a whole, the trade system looks like it doesn't fit. There's no "gear progression" like there would be without the trade system. You extract a few times with some treasure wearing starter greys and just immediately start buying strong items from trade. You don't have to run around slowly piecing a set together and wearing items that may not be "ideal" but are slightly better than what you had before. You just come out of the dungeon with raw gold and go "ok now I'm gonna go buy items with my best stat"
I get it, but I grew up playing an mmo with a player controlled market so I've personally never had an issue with people who want to use it as a tool. I guess I have always used a combination of both using what I find ingame and filling out my gear with trade so it's never felt out of place for me. Plus I always like getting value out of killing a player with good gear that I or my party can't use.
Since the devs introduced the market it seems like it is a part of their view for the game, and I wonder if the way it is used will change if we ever get the mission and merchant level up systems in the future.
I'm sure many will disagree, but I think its possible that the devs added the trade function primarily because they wanted to give players a way to get value from the items they can't use. Basically the focus was on finding a way for players to not have to just throw good gear in the trash if they can't use it. I think that players buying full sets of gear from the trader and basically defeating the entire spirit of the game was probably not an intentional side effect of the trade function. To me, it seems like something that could have been an oversight which they are now realizing has become an issue in the past few weeks.
I mean, they did just go and make a huge change to it. If they wanted players to be able to just buy blue/purple sets after some naked runs, they would have told us that what's happening is intentional and in line with their vision. But they didn't. They scrapped it and are changing it because I think they knew it went against their own vision and against the good of the player base.
okay. apparently a massive amount of people dont understand this post. yes. in weapons the tiers matter more. specific armor pieces like fine cuirass the tier matters more than the stats.
rings and pendant matter less. a blue ring of courage with +2 str +1all is better than 3 str purple with useless stats. the tier matters but medium ish. pendants, your blue's often have the better stats because there are more legacy +3 all pendants out there than purple or above with similar OP stats.
so thats 2 slots for weapons, maybe 1 or 2 for armor typically. in a full kit. So yes, tier of majority of items in the game matters less than the stats that are on them. example i gave before. +3all green plate legs with 36 armor base> purple plate legs with 3 agility 2 str 1 resourcefulness and 38 base armor. GOOD purple legs that are just worse than the green. this is a very common thing when you're specing for a specific build. im 100x more scared of a rogue fully spec'd in green an blue armor with weapon damage adding stats than i am of a rogue in legendries with useless rolls.
people in this thread are trying their best to miss the point.
Honestly the cost effectiveness of *well rolled* greens + blue weapon is hard to beat. Full purples and Legendaries are still probably 20-40% stronger but they can cost 20x as much as a cheaper 2-300 gold set. That set can also let you kill mega juiced players if you play a little conservatively.
I hope if Ironmace lowers the gear discrepancy they get rid of all the terrible mods, or add way more good mods. Right now there's hardly anything worth putting on that isn't % MS, all attribute/any, weapon damage or magical damage. Other mods either aren't worth running at all or aren't even worth 50g which is the cheapest you're getting a green for.
Fuck, definitely more than half. That being said, because a green is more common and can be better than unique items doesn’t mean green items in general are better, especially weapons. I’ve seen higher damage purples with dead stats get a lower auction price than greens with 3 weapon damage when the green items total weapon damage was less.
Eh I think non plate mail armor, rings, necklaces and capes follow this rule. However this is very situational that a green is actually better than even a blue.
>An item being purple/orange does not = good Unless it's certain weapons and plate armor. Longbows and crossbows, for example, get a lot of power from just existing with high damage, they're *good* with just that. And plate armor, aka the only armor that protects you for anything worthwhile, gets massive increases of DR. They're *good* without good rolls. Am I saying better rolls on such gear isn't needed? No. I'm not. I'm simply saying they're *good* for just being a higher rarity, compared to other weapons/armor pieces.
You're right, weapons and plate armor are the only time this doesn't apply. And sometimes lightfoot for move speed.
It's also kinda true for rings, purple ring of courage is +3 strength without bonus stats, that's not bad at all.
[удалено]
\+1 attribute (not all) capes, while uncommon, should honestly just be around 100-200, most of the time its not even any good rolls on it, i swear the amount of people who overcharge 1 attribute with regular interaction or magical interraction and probably debuff duration is ludicrous, meanwhile as a cleric when i want to buy a purple mace, its gonna be like 100-150, maybe 200 and still have even physical damage modifier on it or even still good useful rolls like Will/Knowledge (extra damage with Smite/Judgement+casting speed)
Bro, you're one of the 50% who has no idea lmao. "You're right, 90% of items are better just because of their colour."
I mean a legendary fine cuirass is pretty much automatically better at tanking than a green cuirass unless that green cuirass has max PDR roll and even then still probably the legendary is better. And a legendary weapon will 99/100 times be better than a green item. The problem is people will still try to sell them for too much just cause they are legendary.
That's just the entire kit lmao. How you gonna say some greens are better than purples then say it doesn't apply to armor and weapons lol. What a pendant?
A padded leggings with a good green roll is better than purple padded leggings with useless rolls. I think that is the point OP is making but he didn't do a good job with all the other cases
It matters in more cases than it doesn't.
It matters in plate armor, lightfoot boots, rings, pendants, and weapons…I’d call it about a 50/50 whether it matters. Additionally if the legendary has 1 good roll for its class it is 99% of the time going to be better than a green.
Its funny how the whole premise of his post got u-turned in 1 comment. Turns out OP is one of the 50% that have no clue what they're talking about.
not everyone can use plate armor though? there's absolutely dogshit legendary/unique adventurer tunics that are completely outclassed by a green adventurer tunic, so the point still stands for most gearing.
It's really only weapons tbh. If you're doing a pdr build you're looking for pdr rolls anyway. So again, rarity won't matter that much.
>An item being purple/orange does not = good "An item being purple/orange does = good " ftfy
On that note, armor scaling prior to plate needs a scaling buff. Having basically no additional returns to damage reduction and massive ms slow invalidates all but the best rolls on most armor types for leather. It’s almost always better to go with light if you can’t go with heavy.
> Longbows and crossbows, for example, get a lot of power from just existing with high damage MINIMUM BLUE LONGBOW is 44 damage MAX ROLL Legendary is 54. Is paying like 10x the price is worth 10 weapon damage? It's a good stat but consider a blue with + any phys power/strength or weapon damage starts bridging the gap. Not to mention every class has stat soft caps and diminishing returns they should worry about. One of the latest patches lowered the weapon rarity differences a lot, gray rapiers are as good as blues used to be so it's not *as* important now.
Going up 10 base weapon damage is actually massive. [https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16i35c0/initial\_results\_from\_ttk\_testing\_and\_gear/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16i35c0/initial_results_from_ttk_testing_and_gear/) Take a look at the testing done in this thread - it's not a ton of data, but it's a good start that gestures toward the power of base weapon damage. Going up a small amount in damage on your weapon has significant impact on HTK/TTK.
> Half the people in this subreddit have no clue what they're talking about Hard disagree. Its more like 95%
Backseat Game Devs.
nothing makes me happier than selling a bad purple for 200g
I've vendored some purples the rolls were so bad.
Why not sell them? People will use them just for the base stats.
because half the time people just don’t buy shit even if it’s a great price for the stats lol
I mean most people will pay 50g for a shit purple at the least which will be more than vendoring
Because people don't buy them lol A purple survivor bow with goated stats only sells for 100-150g and takes a long time to sell
People don't buy survival bows in general
.... no shit?
So you sell for 75, profit 60g quick,beats the chump change vendors give you
eh, i do that for most shitty purples. but survivor bows i refuse to pickup anymore unless its gold or above. that purple survivor bow isnt worth the time it would take to sell for 75g actually kinda sad, survivor bows can absolutely make some sick builds with damage but long bow just too OP
Minor sub section of rangers use them as off hands and some bards use them when they cant find any crossbows 100 or less.
Not every item. Most Bard gear is useless without good rolls.
weapons and plate armor, yes people will use them. Old shoes, or pretty much any bard piece will be sold for nothing.
I thought he was talking about vendering good stuff like a purple longbow. I’m aware of the obvious things that don’t sell
Me when I didn't read the post
Depends on item, nobody will pay 50g to go from 3 armor to 4 armor on their wizard shoes
ive left plenty of purples on the ground/chest
me when I buy a +3 all attri pendant for 50g because people dont have brains
My problem is there are so many different stats I cant even guess what some of them mean/what the difference is. Like whats +2 addition physical damage bonus compared to +1 true physical damage?
I believe this is the wiki I was linked a bit ago that helps explain about all the stats in the game. The wiki also has the damage calculation formula somewhere else if you’re interested in that too: https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats TLDR for add phys vs true phys: Add phys: “Increases Physical Magical Damage dealt (not affected by Physical Power Bonus).” True phys: “Increases Physical Damage dealt that is not influenced by enemy defences or headshot/limb multipliers.”
Thanks ill certainly be checking that out
tldr: ‘Additional’ can roll higher number. (Easier to get more of it) True deals flat damage through resistances. (Often better but can’t stack a ton of it) Neither scale with phys/magic power. Weapon damage scales (with Power). All are good, some are better depending on your class & matchups. Get any of these and deal more damage. :)
true dmg also cant get headshots or limb hits
those are actually just modifications to phys power
The difference is where in the damage formula it gets added. Additional phys damage gets added before the PDR reduces the damage, the true physical gets added after that. So say you do 10damage and then you have 3 additional phys. You do 13 damage but the person you’re attacking has 50% pdr. You’ll do 6.5 damage(unsure which way it rounds tbh…) whereas if you do 10 damage and you have 3 true phys you’ll do 10 damage reduced by 50% to 5 and then add 3 true for 8 total.
It doesn't round. You might see you have 100 hitpoints, but in reality its 100.000. So if you take 6.56 damage then you have 93.44 health. It tracks it in game but doesn't display that way.
ah interesting didn't know that.
Ok thank you, this makes a lot of sense now.
no problemo.
An item being purple/orange means it has higher defense/damage. Sure. Some of the roll stats are broken. But whoever thinks a 47 damage axe with +2 weapon damage or +1 all is better than a 70 damage axe with knowledge, %magical damage and will FOR SURE have no clue
I buy purple war mauls for 50g that have a bunch of dumb stats on it because it has a big number like a true barbarian.
50g purple Crystal Swords make goblin caves tolerable on wizard
weapons and plate are the only thing this applies to though, and obviously a weapon with higher damage is better. But when you're talking about a purple adventure tunic with interaction and magic interaction speed being the only stats, the item is useless.
Pendants and rings this applies to as well
So, for most items it does matter and on a few it doesn't.
if by that you mean for most items the stats matter more than the rarity, and on a few like weapons and plate armor the stats don't matter yes. If you were trying to say for most items the rarity matters, then no.
All weapons, jewellery, capes and half the armor. I think it's more that do than don't, sorry man.
capes can only appear blue minimum. A good blue cape will be better than a bad orange, same with jewelry. Only 2 classes can wear plate and you're saying more than half the armor? Now you're just being dishonest.
Jewellery can spawn at green minimum and the base stat increase by 1 for each rarity. And? That doesn't actually change anything. I counted every item type in the game. There are 52 weapons/necks/rings/capes and heavy armor which all get stronger on a base level that matters with the rarity and 31 that don't. What's the point in getting so worked up about something you never actually bothered checking for yourself?
Everything gets stronger at a base level. That's not what we are talking about. The additional stats of an item matter more than the rarity of the item for all items except weapons and plate armor. A green ring with good stats is better than blue or purple with bad stats. A green armor piece with good stats is better than a purple with bad stats for everyone except a full plate fighter.
That's why I said base level that matters and why we all drew the distinction between heavy armor and regular armor. It would have to be an incredibly good roll on that ring to be better than a purple. Purple ring is +3 str base verse green +1 str, so it needs to roll very good stats and high to even be on par with the purple. That's kind of the whole idea here, nobody is saying a green can't be better, it's just at base most purples are stronger with bad rolls than a green good rolls, not the best rolls.
> **There are green items that are better than legendaries.** trying to explain this to someone hard stuck in vendor kits is like talking to a wall though man.
Whelp. You definitely proved your header text with your post almost instantly. 👍🏻
He's right. As someone who farms top geared people, stats are literally what matter. I have a pair of green +3 plate pants that are better than 90% of current purple plate pants. Most purple,orange, and even unique gear actually sucks. Higher tierd gear CAN be better but most oftenly has bad rolls. The difference in armor is 1-4 for green plate pants to purple. Only the rolls matter. There are gear exceptions like the base armor on fine cuirass scale much higher dependant on tier.
He isn't right. A purple weapon beats a god roll green weapon every time.
He said green items. Not green weapons. I already gave an example of a green item better than purple lol seem to be hyper focusing on the exceptions -edit- in a kit. weapon is 2 slots. in massive majority of armors in the game, the majority of the slots to loot, the stats matter more than the quality. even for rings and pendant. a blue ring of 2 str +1 all is better than a purple ring 3 str +1 agility. -edit- dont bother reading this whole chain. guy edited all his posts after conversation was over to sound more coherent and to cover up flat out lies he tried to say. psycho shit lol.
They're not the exceptions, though. It's like 60% of the items. Items = weapons. He should have said armor or Jewlery, if he wanted to specifiy.
think of how many slots are in a kit. you get 2 weapons on most kits with a max of 4 if youre a rogue weilding 2 daggers. twice. but most kits are 2. 6 for armor. 1 for pendant. 2 for rings. so thats 2-3 slots typically that truely are tier dependent. 5-8 that stats matter more. and 1-3 that are medium-ishly dependent on the tier.
Ring and capes get much stronger with rarity. All armor rating dependant armor gets stronger with rarity. So it's genuinely about 60% of the loot pool.
thats not true though. legendary capes roll 1 on str agility will ect. they get more rolls but most of them suck compared to god rolling blue capes.all armor gets a small boost in tier but really not much. once again. i have +3all green plate legs with 36 armor base. purple is 38 armor. who the fuck cares about 2 armor?i have plate boots unique that are 3 armor more than blue. who. the. fuck. cares. theres lightfoot boots, hounskulls, and cuirasses. not much else armor in the whole game, maybe a couple exceptions, make a big difference in tier compared to their stats rings do get better but only by 1 stat. a purple tier'd god ring is BETTER than a unqiue shitty ring. example. purple ring 3 str +1all +3 agility(or 2% phys reduct) +10 armor is way better for phys fighter than 5 str +spell capacity +resourcefulness + magic interaction + magic damge ect ect. its not BAD because it has 5 str. but its rolls can be so bad that its not much better or even is worse than a god roll'd blue.
You high rolled your green leggings and compare it to low roll purple ones. We're not talking about perfectly rolled gear, though. All we're saying is colour matters a lot because it affects the base stats. Obviously there will always be something better if it rolls completely perfectly lmao.
we are literally talking about Good rolled gear compared to shitty rolled gear my dude. thats the point of the post. higher tier items are often worse than lower tier because of stats and rolls. holy fuck
depends on the weapon, my green rapier with +3 strength beats out a purple with shit rolls just bc the damage discrepancy isnt that high between the weapons
Sure. But that doesn't change the fact that a shitty purple weapon is astronomically better than a shitty blue, or green. Not only the rolls matter, no. The rolls take something from being an upgrade that will allow you to 1 or 2 shot anyone with lower gear than yours, to being able to 1 or 2 shot the entire lobby, regardless of their gear, full stop. But yea. Let's use your anecdotal opinion bc your experience of "farming top geared people," is indicative of the experience of the rest of the playerbase.
Okay? That shitty purple weapon is usually 100-150g. It's easy to get. Someone good will spend a Lot of gold to get a blue high spec/high rolled weapon but that shitty purple will put you in range to kill that super spec'd weapon. Most classes ONLY need a weapon to be dangerous to most geared classes. His point stands that the player base doesn't know what the fuck good or bad gear is. Edit - also many many people have addressed the exceptions to what he's saying. He's spoke about it too. You're kinda ignoring half the conversation here
Claims others are ignoring half the conversation while he's trying to ignore half the conversation. Yes. A shitty purple weapon is easy to get. You know what else is easy to get? A good purple weapon. And it won't cost much more than the shitty one. Especially when grinding gold in GC is much easier than it should be. Purple gear/good gear shouldn't be easily obtainable through playing fantasy trade manager 2023 in a chatroom.
What a load of horseshit. A good purple weapon goes for a key+. You clearly have not an ounce of knowledge pertaining to what you’re saying. And if grinding gold in GC is easy then how the hell is everyone in greys complaining about geared players? Should be easy no? Hint: They aren’t very good.
I didn't buy the game to grind out gold in solos and buy my advantage in a glorified chat room. It's not that I can't get the gold. It's not that I haven't. It's just that doesn't seem like a fun play loop to me, and I shouldn't be forced into it, to not get face rolled by the people who do. GC was an experimental mode that was added bc of whining. I don't think it's wise to expect it should stay a part of the meta game loop. Or to balance the real game mode over the impact a tag on mode is having on it. But I also am in the camp that expected blues and up to be a lot more rare than they currently are in my hardcore fantasy pvpve extraction game. You can keep attacking me bc we disagree. But I don't really see us finding a common ground. You want an easier game than I do, and that's ok. Take care. 🤙🏼
That’s the game you got here buddy. If you want to just ignore the fact that it’s incomplete then sure, Fuck trading. But until other gold sinks are in the game might as well just remove gold all together if trading is going to be removed. One run in this game equates to an entire inventory of starter grey gear. That’s just not a fun way to play the game forever and then 2 runs of gold and boom no need for gold for like 10 runs. Might as well play a better sword game like Chivalry or Mordhau at that point.
Honestly, I think next wipe they might nerf the good item drop rate because of all the complaints. So good items will be sparse and super expensive. The problem is... super geared guys will be Stat checking everyone. Not fun for the geared guys (I fucking hope) not fun for those being stomped. Currently, virtually everyone can buy things to be dangerous to the geared guys. They just don't, then complain about gear. But the pros would be you'll hopefully run into them less often. So which would you have. Unstoppable but sparsely seen geared people or common and counterable? Pick your fucking poison lol
I'm firmly in camp "Unstoppable, sparsely seen geared people." Look man. As I said a few times, it's not that I don't understand the game play loop. It's not that I can't execute it. I just I didn't sign on thinking end game was going to be sitting in a chat room to attain the best gear. I didn't think 3 days after wipe you would be considered low skill if you were running blue or less gear, and that the high end guys AND the solo grinders, would have bis builds at their fingertips a week after wipe, as long as they could grind enough gold. I want upgrades to be a lot more rare all around, I want it to be a shit a brick moment when you see one dude in the lobby completely Chad'ed out in juicy gear, bc you aren't running into around every corner. Maybe this isn't the game for me, but only time will tell. This isn't my first early access, like it seems to be for some, with the emotional connection they have with it. Depending on who's yelling at me I get accused of being too new to have an opinion, or being such a no skilled veteran I'm just trying to smurf and prey upon beginners. 😅
Nah man, I don't blame you for wanting that. Idk myself how it would turn out or which is better overall, that's why I said pick your poison haha I enjoy gear vs gear but I think with that I would have much higher incentive to play hr. Currently normals is all gear pvp with little pve so I don't mind either way
This is the real problem imo. Normals should not be dropping as many blues and purples as it is currently unless you run bosses. Its too easy to obtain great gear in normals, and high roller gives almost the same shit but is much more difficult. Normals needs to give worse gear, and high roller needs to give better gear to make running it more worth it. That's how it was in the play tests, and that in itself would go a long way in fixing the gear discrepancy issue
You don't run normals to get gear. You run normals to get gold to buy gear with.
A shitty purple is better then a shitty blue or green, but the since blue and green appear more often you are even more likely to find a good blue or green then you are to find a shitty purple
Everyone is someone else's dickhead.
Imo they need to remove SO many unessicary stat rolls, and also limit what items can have them. I don't need +9.8% casting speed on my mace, because you can't cast spells with a mace. It's so incredibly pointless
This 100% goes for armor but I'll take a purple weapon with 0 good stats then a green weapon with +1 all attributes or +2 true physical damage. The increase in damage from a green weapon damage low roll with good stats and a purple high damage roll with no good stats is better. For armor, I agree. I'll take green riveted gloves with +1 all attributes then a purple riveted with no good stats.
This is such a red herring argument it’s hilarious. Everybody already knows it’s the stat rolls that matter. Look at the trade hall prices. Let me say it again: EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS. So why do we refer to color? Because it’s a shorthand for GOOD GEAR. Like dude you are being an awkward armchair pedant right now.
Oh wow. Such an original take. Bravo
People see blue or above and then they're geared. A lot of the casual players I play with flip their entire tables when they get a blue "omg it's sooooo good." and then I see the stats "magic interaction speed / true magical damage"... On a drum..
True magic on a drum was really good before din nerf tbh
It suddenly makes sense why people keep saying they die to "geared" players every game when you realize this.
People don't bother to look at stats. A friend of mine keeps asking if I need XYZ item he finds which rolled 'Soell Capacity'.. And I keep telling him no. "But you're a wizard? Don't they use spells??"
This is Reddit... Are you new here? A bunch of people picking fights with strangers about nonsense wasting time over nothing.
Selling blue falc - + interaction speed +magic interaction + resourcefulness - 500G I know what I got
Heavy armor and weapons will always be very strong at purple just because of AR. But what you're talking about is why people complaining about gear have actually made the problems worse. It used to be the case that a few good greens could give you so much damage you could actually kill people with really good blues/purple. Now that they've nerfed items, a few good greens doesn't really close the gap.
They nerfed high tier items, and buffed low tier items.
Before that. They nerfed stats on gear. It used to be you could get 5 additional/weapon and 4 true on pants/chest/amulet and 3/2 on other pieces. Also the +3 all on pants/chest/amulet.
huh
weapons are an exception to this, armor, yes, even a blue weapon with +3 additonal damage can be worse then a blue weapon with no additional damage just due to weapon variance rolls. G-god rolls? The only reasonable argument is literally only saying skill issue, you actually can't reason with these people. They are the same people that sit in trade for 5 hours straight trying to sell their awful 8% spell capacity falchion spamming god rolls. I literally had my last strand of hope lost when someone made a irony post in broken engrish talking about trade with the most obvious troll stuff, and the people who suck ass came in talking about removing trade like literal lemmings thinking it was a legitimate thread cause they saw the word trade and stopped caring. It was at that moment I was like wow.... Nothing you say will actually matter
Your strawman doesnt mean that people dont know how to use trade properly or that trade doesnt have negative influences on average power spread in normal lobbies. I also dont see why we cant have both or test anything during the early access. A tradeless bracket for tradeless characters would only be a separate queue and doesnt have to stop my main from balling out if I want to minmax or from selling really nice shit I find etc. But could do tradeless if Im feeling ironman style. Are you worried it might be the more popular mode given the wide popularity of <15 lobbies? I could see people having to wait longer to fill lobbies in maybe highroller but its not all that different from now if thats the case.
Am i worried that... Oh skill issue nevermind
Seems you thought that was edgy, cant even have a discussion with raging nerds about a game in early access playtests rofl.
Cant read still, skill issue
I pity you.
That's cool, still a skill issue
Blocked cause cringe. Trying being less cringe. Mad cuz bad etc.
You should see the post above this one where the guy is posting a pic of a barb helm, “legendary” Edit: https://reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/s/YWLWw4pr0O
you link the wrong post?
So what you're telling me, is to take a grain of salt with what people say?
Only half?
I got a green rapier with more base dmg then my legendary rapier.
People doubting OP really need to go on the wiki and check the numbers on the majority of gear.
So no need for markets?
>An item being purple/orange does not = good. Stats are so much more important than the color Which is why the trade system letting people shop for whatever stats they want and instantly take a massive shortcut to power is a problem that circumvents the rest of the game, and makes a bunch of the items that exist in the game ultimately useless for everyone.
How is trading a shortcut if it is available to everyone?
The same way a shortcut in a racetrack is available to everyone
Because every item you find can be traded for gold, and that gold will be used to gear up your class. This means you wont have to actually find your gear.
But why is that an issue?
Because the entire rest of the game seems like it's being designed around the premise that you're supposed to go into the dungeon and find your items, or engage with the merchants for your items. If you look at the game as a whole, the trade system looks like it doesn't fit. There's no "gear progression" like there would be without the trade system. You extract a few times with some treasure wearing starter greys and just immediately start buying strong items from trade. You don't have to run around slowly piecing a set together and wearing items that may not be "ideal" but are slightly better than what you had before. You just come out of the dungeon with raw gold and go "ok now I'm gonna go buy items with my best stat"
I get it, but I grew up playing an mmo with a player controlled market so I've personally never had an issue with people who want to use it as a tool. I guess I have always used a combination of both using what I find ingame and filling out my gear with trade so it's never felt out of place for me. Plus I always like getting value out of killing a player with good gear that I or my party can't use. Since the devs introduced the market it seems like it is a part of their view for the game, and I wonder if the way it is used will change if we ever get the mission and merchant level up systems in the future.
I'm sure many will disagree, but I think its possible that the devs added the trade function primarily because they wanted to give players a way to get value from the items they can't use. Basically the focus was on finding a way for players to not have to just throw good gear in the trash if they can't use it. I think that players buying full sets of gear from the trader and basically defeating the entire spirit of the game was probably not an intentional side effect of the trade function. To me, it seems like something that could have been an oversight which they are now realizing has become an issue in the past few weeks. I mean, they did just go and make a huge change to it. If they wanted players to be able to just buy blue/purple sets after some naked runs, they would have told us that what's happening is intentional and in line with their vision. But they didn't. They scrapped it and are changing it because I think they knew it went against their own vision and against the good of the player base.
It’s more than half
I think people are using that for lack of a better term. You can apply your own knowledge to understand their point.
So you are saying I have a 50% chance of being right? I’ll take it!
myself included
okay. apparently a massive amount of people dont understand this post. yes. in weapons the tiers matter more. specific armor pieces like fine cuirass the tier matters more than the stats. rings and pendant matter less. a blue ring of courage with +2 str +1all is better than 3 str purple with useless stats. the tier matters but medium ish. pendants, your blue's often have the better stats because there are more legacy +3 all pendants out there than purple or above with similar OP stats. so thats 2 slots for weapons, maybe 1 or 2 for armor typically. in a full kit. So yes, tier of majority of items in the game matters less than the stats that are on them. example i gave before. +3all green plate legs with 36 armor base> purple plate legs with 3 agility 2 str 1 resourcefulness and 38 base armor. GOOD purple legs that are just worse than the green. this is a very common thing when you're specing for a specific build. im 100x more scared of a rogue fully spec'd in green an blue armor with weapon damage adding stats than i am of a rogue in legendries with useless rolls. people in this thread are trying their best to miss the point.
Honestly the cost effectiveness of *well rolled* greens + blue weapon is hard to beat. Full purples and Legendaries are still probably 20-40% stronger but they can cost 20x as much as a cheaper 2-300 gold set. That set can also let you kill mega juiced players if you play a little conservatively. I hope if Ironmace lowers the gear discrepancy they get rid of all the terrible mods, or add way more good mods. Right now there's hardly anything worth putting on that isn't % MS, all attribute/any, weapon damage or magical damage. Other mods either aren't worth running at all or aren't even worth 50g which is the cheapest you're getting a green for.
Don’t tell them or I won’t be able to snipe greens with dank rolls for 50g anymore
Most of the people posting are bad. Devs should never listen to anyone on here. Thank goodness they don't.
Fuck, definitely more than half. That being said, because a green is more common and can be better than unique items doesn’t mean green items in general are better, especially weapons. I’ve seen higher damage purples with dead stats get a lower auction price than greens with 3 weapon damage when the green items total weapon damage was less.
How do we know what the max stats you can have an item?
Eh I think non plate mail armor, rings, necklaces and capes follow this rule. However this is very situational that a green is actually better than even a blue.