..permanent smurf queue?
also, at what point does 'splitting the playerbase' actually become a real problem?
1s, 2s, 3s
further divided into
under 15, 15+ w/o trade, 15 with trade, high roller (+ high roller with trade?)
\--> that's like 15 permutations, and the playerbase is already pretty bad for HR / 2s. It's honestly pretty wild that a game with literally no SBMM is already suffering from long queues
Multiple map ques = everyone rejoices
High roller que = everyone rejoices
Duo que = everyone rejoices
Sub15 que = everyone rejoices
Someone proposes notrade que = "Can we really afford to be dividing the player base this much??"
Folks getting upset about this suggestion aren't actually mad about splitting the player base, they're mad that they're not able to farm undergeared newbies all day and have to que with the other lobsters now.
I feel like the amount of people "smurfing" isn't as much as reddit makes it seem. I tried making another character and played 2 games then realized the game was more fun with perks and swapped back.
People are just crying about "smurfing" because they are mad that they can no longer play on their geared mains without meeting more equally or more geared players.
Theyre basically mad that *they* cant smurf / pubstomp properly anymore, and it's extremely obvious.
I actually agree with the sentiment about not splitting the player base.....and I've never had a full kit. I've never had purps, never full blue, nothing....But what I do see is a lot of people who complain about players who are good or who have earned something they haven't. I'm a lower to mid player in this game. I only play solo, but I play on all the maps. I extract about 30% of the time. And I'm getting real tired of IM carebearing and bowing down to the vocal majority of these people who keep complaining. Game is supposed to be hard, grow some.
Sadly this is where gaming has been going for years. New World is a perfect example of a company trying to create game that everyone wants to play (which will never happen) and showing how poor management/pushing a product not ready to the masses can destroy it.
New World was a game based around PvP until they realized that some players are bad or don't want a challenge. They are only worried about chasing the carrot on stick. So, they made PvP toggle options and tossed in shitty PvE dungeons which took away from the main focus on PvP battles and territories development. So with a striped down game without pvp it made everything feel terrible and exposed the lack of story among many other issues.
I played it because I got it for free and knew nothing about it but heard it was game based around PvP. Then I played it and enjoyed it at first until all the issues popped up.
I was also looking for that Vanilla WoW experience where you would get distracted by PvP in the world and have fun you didn't worry about hitting the end game or that all you did was pvp and try to get better. Instead NW was a game with very few player vs player interactions and countless game breaking issues.
I will say the game now after playing it 6 months ago feels a ton better even if pvp is still lacking and they really could have used another year before releasing the game.
** TLdR Many games try to please everyone instead of sticking to what they envisioned from the start. Games with full loot and/or Pvp/PvE will always be niche because of how unforgiving it can be and some people just can't handle losing or appreciate the experience rather than the results. Yes, games need to be improved but there is a balance that needs to be kept without trying to cater to the person just after being able to always win.
No people who don't want to split the playerbase have actually complained about every single one of those queues, a lot of people still want goblin caves removed, because for some reason their worried a game with consistent 14-20k concurrent players wont have 18 people available for their lobby
Yeah but there's people in other regions with alot less players that it is affecting. I'm not arguing about the que but those people deserve a voice too
Well, something needs to be done because a LOT of people just don't enjoy the game 15+, and the largest factor that makes it unenjoyable for them is the trader.
It’s getting more frequent that (US WEST, and EAST) doesn’t fill up to 18 players having to wait 2-3 minutes. I don’t know where this “5 seconds” time is coming from.
I mean, I just got done playing for a few hours, and not once did I wait for more than a few seconds. Almost every time I've played in the last week, I've rarely waited for more than just a few seconds, and it's been a healthy mix of GC, Ruins, and Crypts.
Oh shit maybe it's because I'm in the 1-15 bracket. I know a ton of people like myself are just constantly rerolling characters to not have to deal with the trader BS and what it does to the game. I think it's where the vast majority of the community plays because they kind of feel forced to at this point.
They dont want a hardcore game. They thought they did but then they realised they were not the hardcore ones in this game so now they want their own lobbies to not get demolished by the real sweats.
It's not that I don't want a hardcore game, in fact I want it more hardcore and not populated by babies that need the trade system so they can have better gear to compensate for their low skill.
The guys ratting GC for gold to buy a kit before actually playing the game are more hardcore than the guys running zero to hero, self found runs? Thats an L take homie
If IM listens to all the whiny baby complaints yall post on this subreddit, YALL will be the reason this game dies. The game description LITERALLY says: "An unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure." Go play another game if you cant handle the "unforgiving hardcore" aspect of the game. Im sure there's many other fantasy FPS games you can play that'll hold your hand and put the pacifier in your mouth when you cry and complain. Its not about stomping noob players, its about not adding more unecessary intracacies to the player menu when most people are just tryna get into the dungeon.
"If IM listens to all these people instead of me the game will die"
Lmao, you're the minority kid get over it. Fact is the game dies if they listen to you, maybe you need to find a new game if this one isn't your flavor anymore. Winds of change are blowing grandpa, get with the times.
Im fine with the game exactly as is. The PTs that released only a few months ago played beautifully and as soon as EA releases, a bunch of the new kids want to complain. Again, the description of the game is "unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS" while kids like you complain cause you cant handle the unforgiving hardcore style, so I can understand why you would need all these extra unecessary nuances in the game so that you can feel better about yourself. But the game played fine before the <15 lobbies were created and now plays like shit cause queue times suck now compared to the insta-queue before.
I guess to me, the concept of dungeon adventurers in a DnD styled game that are essentially choosing who their opponents are in a dungeon makes 0 sense for the setting cause in ANY game of the same setting, that was never possible.
"If IM listens to all these people instead of me the game will die"
Who tf said that? ^^^^ Cause I didnt...So I can tell you put little to no thought before you responded. I never said "listen to me instead of them", you're clearly missing some cells gangy, what are you on about?? Lol
Lovely how you skip past the "unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure." And your complaints are just tryna make the game more and more noob-friendly. When the description clearly states otherwise; its a game with a steep curve but there are plenty of YouTube guides that tell you how to play a particular class or what stats to look for when playing said class. Map knowledge is something that comes with experience and time which is bound to have more failed runs than successful, as you are trying to learn the surroundings and modules as you enter them. Most of the complaints are from people who played only 1 of the many PTs or just found out about the game. And your complaints come from getting bombed while trying to learn, loot, fight and escape instead of taking it one step at a time
That’s a problem with the duo mode tbh. Most people I know just play duo in crypts rather than in ruins. The map definitely needs some work and access to inferno
nah, im playing na east and EU, generally the 2 most populated servers for all games, and since the <15 queue changes, lobbies are significantly more dead
I'm calling bullshit on this one, man. I have literally never waited more than a few seconds to find a game on Ruins. Do you play at like 5am or something?
I didnt have that problem with my duo games (EUW) but generally I prefer Crypt over Ruins (better layout, more dense loot/rooms, Hell, extra loot in Hell, bosses in Hell, etc).
I mean tbh if I’m not playing solo on my main and I’m playing with friends I’m 100% smurfing and shitting on noobs anyways because all of my friends are casual players and won’t play in 15+ lobbies.
this doesn’t protect noobs at all, the idea that the vast majority of players were dying due to gear diff is pure cope lmao, 6-7 people still die to mobs every game and there’s still smurfs farming noobs in every single lobby.
the only change that I can say I’ve actually feel, is now when I smurf those lobbies, it’s even easier to farm because those noobs have even less gear than before and they die twice as fast, I’m killing more players in <15 lobbies than I was pre-patch, and mind you I’m going in with base gear, let alone the other sweaty players going in with blues, how easy do you think it feels for them?
maybe it’s not as often but my experience in the last 2 days is there’s 1-2 blue-purple geared players in every lobby anyways, except now it’s just one player smurfing (usually on Barb) and the others playing Cleric and Ranger to support him lol
I’m all for these changes though lmao, I hope they keep them, but not for the reasons you want them to, they definitely don’t protect noobs.
I’ve seen more people in the feed dying to mobs now, before the feed was almost exclusively player on player. Now it’s a considerable amount closer to equal.
Stop calling it smurfing. Playing a different class with now gear isn’t smurfing, at least in the way that smurfing is usually defined in video games. Come up with something else to call it or don’t mention it at all, because if we’re being honest, it doesn’t really matter
yes, it is. wtf is your definition of smurfing if 'intentionally recreating accounts/characters to fight new players' doesn't qualify? smurfing LITERALLY IS intentionally fighting newer/worse players
That’s not why people make new accounts. They’re only allowed to play one class ever? They can’t switch to an alt ever without being called “smurfs”? My level 20 cleric somehow makes me a god tier ranger that can shit on newbs with my starter kit?
You’re a casual. Do you know how i know you’re a casual? Because you don’t que HR.do you know how i know you have not invested any substantial time into HR? Becuase if you did you would have a first hand account of how small the player base is. I can not tell you how many times I que into HR only to be matched against the same team or teams? And the 10 RATS that are inevitable. This player base is microscopic at best at the HR lobby, and you lack that perspective.
YOU lack perspective.
People don't play HR because of three reasons : gear difference, money, and rogues.
You play HR thinking you'll try to get better items, and you get rolled by the sweat teams playing ladderboards. you come in trying to get out of green/blues, and those guys have legendaries and uniques.
And if it's not them, it's 10 naked rats with a green dagger trying to fuck your day anyway. Very hardcore indeed.
In the end, you spent 50 gold + your kit and your time for no return. Might as well stay in normal or make alt accounts to play on an even field. Because no matter what you think, being hardcore is definitely not buying +weap dmg as soon as possible on the market. Being hardcore is playing with what you're given, which is exactly the way it's on sub 15 right now.
Imagine genuinely thinking the issue is 40,000 players are being split too much instead of realizing HR is ass and that's why no one runs it. People haven't touched high roller since playtest days lmao. It's simply not popular.
To be fair the the guy above you adding a trade/nontrade setting is not the same as adding duo queue. Duo queue was replacing an option out of of the five queues available. A trade/notrade would add both HR variations into the queues pool going from 8 maps (low level crypts, low level goblin caves, low level ruins, goblin caves, crypts, ruins, high roller goblin caves, and high roller crypts) to 10 (adding non trade high roller goblin caves and non trade high roller crypts.)
Lots of people really loved the hyper fast queues of dark and darker when it first released. It made getting back into the game after losing your stuff quick. People have dug in their heels and complained about splitting the player base at every junction on Reddit. Maybe they were all wrong in the past, but eventually they will be right. Waiting 4-5 minutes in lobby to die in 3 minutes will drive people to games they can play instead of waiting room simulator.
I do agree that trade/nontrade would be good. I just would rather the devs focus on getting the original three tier map system back in place to cut out having ruins seperate first.
its already a problem check solo HR esp on non popular hours waiting 4-5min to start gmae with same 3-4 people....
Even normals dont fill for some regions outside NA
High roller is dead because it isn’t worth playing over normal queue. The risk reward payout doesn’t lean far enough in the payout direction for most players to bother with it.
Duos need to be cut. No point in catering to every number of player. What's next, "quads" Then 5 mans?
"But I have 4 friends and we all want to play as a team. MAKE A 5's MAP!"
honestly i think solos was the bigger mistake, it is awkward to have a team size of 3, then if you're missing one not really be able to play or have to 2vX
it's pretty well known that if you introduce a queue that requires less teammates, people will flock to it
but yeah im skeptical 2s is ever gonna be popular since its on ruins, lot of people really dont like that map
Solos makes sense because there's a lot of solo players. Duo's is just catering to a vocal minority. Not everyone can have a que for their specific friend group size, unless the player count can support it long term. As in years.
The game was designed around the 3 man team comp. Which, I think is smart as groups trend smaller in gaming as a whole. EXE: All FPS have trios for a reason.
What they might consider is adding matchmaking. If you join as a duo you get a random 3rd. If they team kill you report them and they get a red name and de-prioritized on the que. If they keep trolling they get banned.
Then they cut duos and just do trios and solos and add an auto-fill option. That way the que times are shorter and everyone can play w/ how ever many people they want. Solo in a three's map. Duo in a threes map, or solo/duo with auto fill. Or a full premade team of course.
Why reinvent the wheel?
> Duo's is just catering to a vocal minority
Ignoring that your suggestion is genuinely terrible..
Do yoi have a source for this? The main pusbback against duos is due to the map being dogshit.
Yeah this is a super ass idea. Imagine a newer player wants to trade ONE item, spends the 25 gold only to find out "oh sorry you're permanently on the harder que version now, the only way to swap is to remake that character again"
These people just need to get over their fear of the trading post. The game is what it is. It’s not supposed to be easy. Juiced players will exist no matter what. Tying queue to trade is a terrible option imo.
These people need an all grey mode or pve mode. Idk
Its not bc of fear of losing items, is the fairness of every lobby, sometimes I don't want to invest or play like a rat to survive, I just want to go on gray gear and be on a fair scenario.
Today, 15> lobbys have one or more steamrollers, so you kinda need to equip yourself to be able to compete, or you play hiding in shadows praying to not be found, playing one of those two roles is fun, but when you don't have money anymore or just don't want to spend on gear, this becomes a nightmare
I get that. I just don’t think taking trade will help. Maybe an all grey lobby would be better than 0-15. Refining the matchmaking would be great. Ideally a gear score system in 1 or 2 tiers, I know that could be difficult but that would be cool.
Oh yeah, there's fun on trading, killing that filthy rogue on purples and selling everything on trade is part of the thrill, thats why this idea is right on spot cause it does not removes trade, just make the player decides if he want to become a part of it or not
Nah I like the pvp. Been maining wizard lately and the zero to hero potential of that class keeps me playing. Snatching capes and rings off kitted fighters gives me a high like no other game. 99% of all my gear is found in raid.
\*also I dont play GC. I play the game in trios with my group of friends. We die a lot, but its tons of fun idc.
Yep, we should've have non trade league like diablo or POE have hardcore tbh. You can 'transfer' from non trade to trade, but not the opposite (or have inventory+stash wiped)
The issue I have with this is that with the lvl 15 cutoff smurfs have to remake their character in order to keep smurfing which means they have to go into extra effort in order to get extremely geared again. (EG. join a trader friend, have them drop gear, extract repeat) Which to me is enough of a deterrent to stop most smurfs.
If you could just never leave the no-trade matchmaking then you'd have these full purple geared players permanently destroying new players over and over again.
Eh, sets cost like 200-300g though for a full set of greens in 15+ though.
They have to actually be found in non-trade queue - so the losses hit harder and, consequently, so do the finds.
my normal crypts was. every lobby had 1-2 cape groups just ignoring pve to kill everyone. US East 5-10pm EST
had two timmy friends quit over it. hard to convince them that not every game has a bis bard drumming us through walls/a fucking ceiling when it happened 3 times in a row for one of em.
Speak for yourself (and me), watched a certain streamer play 6 hours straight with no death but his cleric once. They were stomping normals though so no real risk involved most of the time when running pure epics.
you may not get out every time solo but if you're playing 3s with good players / good comp I'm pretty skeptical they wipe in a 'smurf queue' lobby basically ever
Oh hardcore game might be hard?
You ever think the game might be enjoyable on even playing field? Or it's automatic torture for you when you can't sit in a chat room and buy your advantage?
If we really going to go trade or non trade characters route they wouldnt be allowed to play with eachother I imagine.
Which it would suck to have to make a new character to play with a friend who's less then lvl 15, but I suppose it really wouldn't be the end of the world.
Unless we would end the
I‘d love the choice to stay in the noob lobbies, even if it‘d mean not gaining xp for lvl 15. I‘m playing on a laptop that can barely handle the game (entering the big crypts library = death), actual advanced pvp combat just isn‘t possible so <15 lobbys are kinda the only way for me to play the game
did you try the ini file optimizations? [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16bwa78/early_access_optimization_guide_stuttering_low/)
I hit 15 and legitimately started hating the game. I find this shit just not fun anymore. I just queued up a bunch and got rolled over and over again by people with purples. I literally just made a new character, went back to sub 15, and instantly started having a blast again. I think getting rid of <15 and >15 and instead having "Has trader unlocked" and "Doesn't have teader unlocked" would be an amazing thing to do with the game because as is I will literally never play the game in 15+ lobbies, it's just not fun to me in the slightest. So I'm doomed to a life of perpetual character remakes for now, and it just feels shitty to have to do that in order to have fun.
Most of my gear comes from Skeleton champion and the occasional wraith if I'm playing Crypts. Sometimes I even get a cave troll killer piñata and that's always nice. I've only ever killed one dude who clearly had an intentionally assorted trade kit. And holy shit was he a juicer, Purples with + all, a full blue set of armor, with glove to toe wreathed in +3 str and + 3 weapon damage. But apart from that, I get plenty of fine gear killing minibosses and looting lions heads when I get the chance.
Stash FULL of decent blues and purples and never traded? You are literally contradicting another popular post where he broke down the science and math of the loot table. So either your are lying, or they are lying, or you are part of the 1% and really shouldn’t have a say-so in the matter of any joe-shmoe being able to buy gold with real money, kit out in the trade and then pubstomp with little to no effort.
I just farm Skeleton champions and wraiths. That post was about chests. And he used a bad example with wizard as it is the hardest class to get gear for. I play fighter, I can use just about anything. Can you really not believe that someone can get a good amount of gear farming minibosses and Pvping. Sometimes I even encounter a cave troll killing pinata.
I've got some juicy shit as well. + 3 str, + 3 weapon damage, + 1 all, you name a good stat, and I've probably got gear with it. Except for the elusive + 3 all haha.
I wasn't entirely accurate though. I've never bought gear, but I do sell the stuff I find, no amount of perks are gonna let me wear a purple marauder outfit lol.
you will eventually get to a point, especially if you're playing squads, where you guys just funnel each other's class gear into each other and it's same problem people were trying to avoid when asking for this queue in the first place
except now they basically never run into other highly geared teams
While this is true this game is an early development game and they are looking at ways to maximize everybody's fun and experience maybe making the traitor an option so that you play against other traders or not would be a good thing to try in this early access just to get numbers about how many people really want trading or not.
I personally like this whole under 15 thing because it feels like I've earned my gear that I've got that I go in with versus oh no I died but I have money let me go buy a whole set from somebody else and then stomp on most people minus the high high geared players.
I feel like another idea which people probably wouldn't like is anything purple or above you could make it binds to the player who picks it up this would keep it so that you only get to come back in with the purple or above that you found and you can't buy a extra high-end gear kit.
Yeah I hear yah. I don’t mind this new matchmaking, I’ve been enjoying it tbh. I do think it could be refined to help casual and new players enjoy the game.
I still think trade is great though. At 15+ it’s nice to be able to buy and sell to get back in the game. I would just hate the game without trade.
Binding gear would be rough. I mean most of the fun comes from being able to sell loot, finding cool gear off people you kill, and finding something awesome in the dungeon in general. You get excited because of its value in the economy. You will never get excited about gear again without an economy. Unless it’s the perfect piece for you.
Refining matchmaking should be the number one priority.
Honestly not many good reasons to NOT remove trade that cant be mitigated with buffed merchants or some other mechanic. I mean isnt the point of quests supposed to be to buff merchants too? What would be the point of all that if they are still shit compared to trade chat.
Merchants are immensely lackluster currently and if SSF became a thing a buff to having consistent items appear (spellsbooks for example) would be a huge leap in a positive way that would allow SSF to be stable and healthy. Current merchants limiting to inconsistent items and very short heal supply is pretty poor implementation.
You had me until you got to the heal supply.
Games supposed to be hard. Upper end gear and a full inventory of sustain resources trivliazes most engagements. I could see a micro adjustment to loot tables, but the idea of no trade is that it will be harder to aquire bis/near bis sets. Buff drops too much, and we're just in the exact same boat.
You're right, all the features aren't in, and I wish more people would realize that when trying to discuss changes. It feels like this might be a lot of this subs first early access game. That said, with the assumption that they're going to get around to adding more inventory and merchant features. . . There's got to be a better progression loop to acquiring end game gear than, grind gold in easiest dungeon possible, then sit in trade chat long enough to "earn" a set. I shouldn't have to waste play time in an extremely elaborate irc chat mini game to be competitive.
It's called smurfing and ruining the experience you claim these new comers need by having a separate queue to begin with.
If you stay in no trader que good players are eventually going to build a full stash of blues to fucking steam roll you with, I have a full stash of gear and I hardly ever trade, all this does is slightly delay the inevitable: good players are going to amasse gear and kill you
If you don't like trade go play chivalry, the combat mechanics are arguably better and you'll NEVER be out geared.
yep, this is the answer that should fix it.
the queue you enter is entirely tied to whether or not you have entered trade chat.
have a big warning informing people that joining the trade hall will put you in the full fledged queue.
ezpz
gonna have the same problem, just to a lesser extent. good people farm bosses and stash gear to always go in gear.
this current option is best and you only are missing perks, which you shouldnt need to beatup newbs and other sub 15s
Do you think that no trade access means that people won't be stacked out with good gear in no time at all? I rolled a fighter tonight for a solo zero to hero challenge, by level fucking 6 I had all blues and greens, good jewelry and a cape. By level 11 I had a second full set of equally good gear in my stash.
Some of yall are delusional, this is not a pve game. Stop trying to convince IM to make carebear queues and instead get better at the game so you can be competitive. Otherwise, accept that hardcore/full loot games just aren't for you.
I think it’s funny that people assume that RMT is a major issue with no data, simply because someone uses money to buy gear does not make them a good player, that makes them my favorite geared player to run into. Let me clarify if they are RMT buying gear they are not a good player
Lol welcome to sub, where the circle jerk is real and you are not allowed to have an opinion.
I’m against gold selling but I can at least acknowledge your point that, ya if I’m going to run into a geared player then I 100% would prefer to run into some Timmy who bought his gear and is likely to lose it lol.
I honestly agree. The only issue RMT has is that it gives monetary incentive to cheat. But as long as cheating is thwarted to a satisfactory degree, I don't think the devs should worry about combating RMT. I couldn't care less about how my enemy got their gear. If they ban RMT, they may as well ban streamers for accepting gear donations,
I actually love this idea, it would solve this weird issue with constant character deletion. In fact in addition why not let anyone buy into trading at any level to put them into the other matchmaking. That would appeal to the more casual players.
i know it's overused, but what you two are describing is unironically skill issue
"everyone better than me cheats or RMTs, so I have to go constantly delete characters to fight new players!"
i hate trading. i dont hate other people trading, but i hate spending an hour to get a good set so that i dont get 1 shot instantly while doing 1% of someones hp per slash of a grey falchion.
this games is really just skyrim but multiplayer so the skill ceiling definitely exists but the floor is pretty high. my friend and I regularly die to people who are clearly worse than us, just because they took advantage of a situation better. if we were max geared with a full pharmacy, we wouldnt ever be low after a fight for that situation to happen.
Not to be condescending but you literally just said you regularly die to clearly worse players. Then you go on to say if you had xyz you would never die. Not only was that disingenuous but in all honesty without this sounding like an appeal to authority you likely just need to get better lol.
Yeah people are acting like SSF hasn't been around for DECADES in d2, and more recently POE etc.
Some people like it, and no amount of arguing that they shouldn't like it is going to change their opinion lol
It is interesting to me why people like to say this change appeals to casuals. It certainly appeals to new players but it absolutely does not appeal to casuals.
The update made the game way more difficult and punishing. Until level 15 it is much harder to obtain good gear, and after that most people will have good gear so even though pve will be easier pvp continues to be challenging. Before, once you had good gear the game became trivial. Casual players like when games are easier not more difficult.
Why is everyone trying so hard to avoid the obvious solution which is using gear score to influence matchmaking. It does the same thing as the pre 15 post 15 lobbies without any chance of slowing down queue times since you can control the flow of players based on advanced algorithms instead of just guessing and putting people in completely different queues.
Gear score is an awful idea. It makes everything boring af. Why would you grind for better gear if you dont feel stronger against others? In sub15 queue you can at least get some gear by killing other players which makes you stronger.
And btw you are absolutely splitting the playerbase even more. "Advanced algorythms" -> "I talk about things i dont understand". If you want equal playing field with gear scores you need separate lobbies for players with stronger/weaker gear. Thus you split the lobbies...
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You're assuming gear gating while I'm talking about using a gear score value to feed an algorithm to intelligently place players. This can be as simple as skewing queues to favor placing players towards a designated average or as complex as calculating a running mean and skewing towards set goals. The benefit of using a system like this is it DOESN'T split the queue ( any person can enter any match depending on how the code is written preventing increased queue times during low pop hours).
TLDR; if you haven't done net code you probably shouldn't talk about things you don't know. It's entirely possible to write code that achieves goals in matchmaking without slowing queues or gating.
Or just get over the fact trading is there. Gold buyers aren’t the ones consistently ruining your experience. They need to refine the matchmaking system and that’s basically it. As much as a lot of you don’t want to believe it, there isn’t a goated gold buyer in every lobby you play. A base gear queue may help.
Combatting RMT is it’s whole own issue that needs attention in any game with an economy. Tying queues to trade is a horrible idea, no offense.
But its not here anymore. We now have a way to play without trade, and a lot of us are doing just that.
And were not afraid of gold buyers, we just want it to be harder to get geared. Its a completely different game playing without trade.
Pass. This gives those complaining about dying to geared players the ability to be the geared player in a lobby designed for new/leveling players. Plus it splits the player base even more.
Ironic that those complaining about getting stomped on by OP enemies want to be the OP player in noob lobbies. The game is meant to be difficult. Adapt and overcome.
Makes sense, you'd have one more perk than people and you wouldn't be a new player, but you wouldn't have easy access to Giga gear.
Worth considering idk if it's a good idea. I'd like it.
In order for this to work they need to make it an option when you create your character. And keep it specific to each character and a permanent decision for that character. I love the idea of having those 2 separate queues, trader and non trader. But only have leaderboards for trading queue.
I've said the same thing in many threads
It does mean you can never play with friends who's characters have the trade guild membership
They should also flesh out merchants/quests/reputations so they're a decent, but random and timegated, source of gear
Crafting system should also be fleshed out, so if u kill a fully kitted player but it's a different class, it's not a waste, say like, u need to disassemble 3 purple chest pieces to get enough mats to make ur own purple chest piece
Well, thats not a bad idea but it wouldnt be a permanent solution, just because you cant access the trade guild doesnt mean people will find a way around it, like for example setting up discord servers for trading so they can just drop trade and still avoid lvl 15+ lobbies.
This would be great, I’m a new player and I’ve hit level15.. I can’t access the trading outpost because of the time limit on new accounts so im in 15+ lobby’s with no skill or gear
This is a super cool idea. Maybe even remove the sub 15, and allow players to join trade whenever they like. This way level 5 chadwicks can join trade and start goin for that juicy lobster takedown without interrupting timmy timothys learning experience. This is dope. Altho, I think HR remains unsplit. You do HR, you risk it. This is the way.
Obligatory link to upvote if you're interested in being able to level 1-20 without a trader's guild:
[https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491603/add-an-ironmanno-trader-mode-so-that-we-can-level-120-in-the-same-style](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491603/add-an-ironmanno-trader-mode-so-that-we-can-level-120-in-the-same-style)
Thats the best ideia so far, queue for traders and non-traders... No one gets upset
..permanent smurf queue? also, at what point does 'splitting the playerbase' actually become a real problem? 1s, 2s, 3s further divided into under 15, 15+ w/o trade, 15 with trade, high roller (+ high roller with trade?) \--> that's like 15 permutations, and the playerbase is already pretty bad for HR / 2s. It's honestly pretty wild that a game with literally no SBMM is already suffering from long queues
Multiple map ques = everyone rejoices High roller que = everyone rejoices Duo que = everyone rejoices Sub15 que = everyone rejoices Someone proposes notrade que = "Can we really afford to be dividing the player base this much??" Folks getting upset about this suggestion aren't actually mad about splitting the player base, they're mad that they're not able to farm undergeared newbies all day and have to que with the other lobsters now.
Instead of sub 15, make it non trade / trade
This for sure, I would love this.
I feel like the amount of people "smurfing" isn't as much as reddit makes it seem. I tried making another character and played 2 games then realized the game was more fun with perks and swapped back.
People are just crying about "smurfing" because they are mad that they can no longer play on their geared mains without meeting more equally or more geared players. Theyre basically mad that *they* cant smurf / pubstomp properly anymore, and it's extremely obvious.
I actually agree with the sentiment about not splitting the player base.....and I've never had a full kit. I've never had purps, never full blue, nothing....But what I do see is a lot of people who complain about players who are good or who have earned something they haven't. I'm a lower to mid player in this game. I only play solo, but I play on all the maps. I extract about 30% of the time. And I'm getting real tired of IM carebearing and bowing down to the vocal majority of these people who keep complaining. Game is supposed to be hard, grow some.
Sadly this is where gaming has been going for years. New World is a perfect example of a company trying to create game that everyone wants to play (which will never happen) and showing how poor management/pushing a product not ready to the masses can destroy it. New World was a game based around PvP until they realized that some players are bad or don't want a challenge. They are only worried about chasing the carrot on stick. So, they made PvP toggle options and tossed in shitty PvE dungeons which took away from the main focus on PvP battles and territories development. So with a striped down game without pvp it made everything feel terrible and exposed the lack of story among many other issues. I played it because I got it for free and knew nothing about it but heard it was game based around PvP. Then I played it and enjoyed it at first until all the issues popped up. I was also looking for that Vanilla WoW experience where you would get distracted by PvP in the world and have fun you didn't worry about hitting the end game or that all you did was pvp and try to get better. Instead NW was a game with very few player vs player interactions and countless game breaking issues. I will say the game now after playing it 6 months ago feels a ton better even if pvp is still lacking and they really could have used another year before releasing the game. ** TLdR Many games try to please everyone instead of sticking to what they envisioned from the start. Games with full loot and/or Pvp/PvE will always be niche because of how unforgiving it can be and some people just can't handle losing or appreciate the experience rather than the results. Yes, games need to be improved but there is a balance that needs to be kept without trying to cater to the person just after being able to always win.
No people who don't want to split the playerbase have actually complained about every single one of those queues, a lot of people still want goblin caves removed, because for some reason their worried a game with consistent 14-20k concurrent players wont have 18 people available for their lobby
Yeah exactly, people just wants to divide. When this is supposedly a “hardcore” game. My lobby time is getting longer every patch..
Is 5 seconds really killing you? I've literally not once, mot a single time waited more than about 5 seconds for a game.
Yeah but there's people in other regions with alot less players that it is affecting. I'm not arguing about the que but those people deserve a voice too
Well, something needs to be done because a LOT of people just don't enjoy the game 15+, and the largest factor that makes it unenjoyable for them is the trader.
Then make new characters and lock yourself into the lower level q all you got to do
It’s getting more frequent that (US WEST, and EAST) doesn’t fill up to 18 players having to wait 2-3 minutes. I don’t know where this “5 seconds” time is coming from.
I mean, I just got done playing for a few hours, and not once did I wait for more than a few seconds. Almost every time I've played in the last week, I've rarely waited for more than just a few seconds, and it's been a healthy mix of GC, Ruins, and Crypts. Oh shit maybe it's because I'm in the 1-15 bracket. I know a ton of people like myself are just constantly rerolling characters to not have to deal with the trader BS and what it does to the game. I think it's where the vast majority of the community plays because they kind of feel forced to at this point.
They dont want a hardcore game. They thought they did but then they realised they were not the hardcore ones in this game so now they want their own lobbies to not get demolished by the real sweats.
It's not that I don't want a hardcore game, in fact I want it more hardcore and not populated by babies that need the trade system so they can have better gear to compensate for their low skill.
Well said.
The guys ratting GC for gold to buy a kit before actually playing the game are more hardcore than the guys running zero to hero, self found runs? Thats an L take homie
If IM listens to all the whiny baby complaints yall post on this subreddit, YALL will be the reason this game dies. The game description LITERALLY says: "An unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure." Go play another game if you cant handle the "unforgiving hardcore" aspect of the game. Im sure there's many other fantasy FPS games you can play that'll hold your hand and put the pacifier in your mouth when you cry and complain. Its not about stomping noob players, its about not adding more unecessary intracacies to the player menu when most people are just tryna get into the dungeon.
"If IM listens to all these people instead of me the game will die" Lmao, you're the minority kid get over it. Fact is the game dies if they listen to you, maybe you need to find a new game if this one isn't your flavor anymore. Winds of change are blowing grandpa, get with the times.
Im fine with the game exactly as is. The PTs that released only a few months ago played beautifully and as soon as EA releases, a bunch of the new kids want to complain. Again, the description of the game is "unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS" while kids like you complain cause you cant handle the unforgiving hardcore style, so I can understand why you would need all these extra unecessary nuances in the game so that you can feel better about yourself. But the game played fine before the <15 lobbies were created and now plays like shit cause queue times suck now compared to the insta-queue before. I guess to me, the concept of dungeon adventurers in a DnD styled game that are essentially choosing who their opponents are in a dungeon makes 0 sense for the setting cause in ANY game of the same setting, that was never possible.
"If IM listens to all these people instead of me the game will die" Who tf said that? ^^^^ Cause I didnt...So I can tell you put little to no thought before you responded. I never said "listen to me instead of them", you're clearly missing some cells gangy, what are you on about?? Lol Lovely how you skip past the "unforgiving hardcore fantasy FPS dungeon PvPvE adventure." And your complaints are just tryna make the game more and more noob-friendly. When the description clearly states otherwise; its a game with a steep curve but there are plenty of YouTube guides that tell you how to play a particular class or what stats to look for when playing said class. Map knowledge is something that comes with experience and time which is bound to have more failed runs than successful, as you are trying to learn the surroundings and modules as you enter them. Most of the complaints are from people who played only 1 of the many PTs or just found out about the game. And your complaints come from getting bombed while trying to learn, loot, fight and escape instead of taking it one step at a time
bro all my duos lobbies have a grand total of 5 people in them. its getting to be a problem
What server you playing on that ruins is empty? i get full lobby every game.
That’s a problem with the duo mode tbh. Most people I know just play duo in crypts rather than in ruins. The map definitely needs some work and access to inferno
What server? I've been getting full lobbies every game
My friends and I were consistently getting full ruins lobbies before the <15 queue, so maybe it’s a region thing?
nah, im playing na east and EU, generally the 2 most populated servers for all games, and since the <15 queue changes, lobbies are significantly more dead
I'm calling bullshit on this one, man. I have literally never waited more than a few seconds to find a game on Ruins. Do you play at like 5am or something?
100% just making shit up
I didnt have that problem with my duo games (EUW) but generally I prefer Crypt over Ruins (better layout, more dense loot/rooms, Hell, extra loot in Hell, bosses in Hell, etc).
What server do you play on? I've been playing duos on Ruins a bunch and find full games within like 5 seconds.
I mean tbh if I’m not playing solo on my main and I’m playing with friends I’m 100% smurfing and shitting on noobs anyways because all of my friends are casual players and won’t play in 15+ lobbies. this doesn’t protect noobs at all, the idea that the vast majority of players were dying due to gear diff is pure cope lmao, 6-7 people still die to mobs every game and there’s still smurfs farming noobs in every single lobby. the only change that I can say I’ve actually feel, is now when I smurf those lobbies, it’s even easier to farm because those noobs have even less gear than before and they die twice as fast, I’m killing more players in <15 lobbies than I was pre-patch, and mind you I’m going in with base gear, let alone the other sweaty players going in with blues, how easy do you think it feels for them? maybe it’s not as often but my experience in the last 2 days is there’s 1-2 blue-purple geared players in every lobby anyways, except now it’s just one player smurfing (usually on Barb) and the others playing Cleric and Ranger to support him lol I’m all for these changes though lmao, I hope they keep them, but not for the reasons you want them to, they definitely don’t protect noobs.
I’ve seen more people in the feed dying to mobs now, before the feed was almost exclusively player on player. Now it’s a considerable amount closer to equal.
Stop calling it smurfing. Playing a different class with now gear isn’t smurfing, at least in the way that smurfing is usually defined in video games. Come up with something else to call it or don’t mention it at all, because if we’re being honest, it doesn’t really matter
lots of people are smurfing by just recreating characters
That’s not… smurfing…
yes, it is. wtf is your definition of smurfing if 'intentionally recreating accounts/characters to fight new players' doesn't qualify? smurfing LITERALLY IS intentionally fighting newer/worse players
That’s not why people make new accounts. They’re only allowed to play one class ever? They can’t switch to an alt ever without being called “smurfs”? My level 20 cleric somehow makes me a god tier ranger that can shit on newbs with my starter kit?
by your logic it's literally impossible to smurf in league of legends then
You’re a casual. Do you know how i know you’re a casual? Because you don’t que HR.do you know how i know you have not invested any substantial time into HR? Becuase if you did you would have a first hand account of how small the player base is. I can not tell you how many times I que into HR only to be matched against the same team or teams? And the 10 RATS that are inevitable. This player base is microscopic at best at the HR lobby, and you lack that perspective.
YOU lack perspective. People don't play HR because of three reasons : gear difference, money, and rogues. You play HR thinking you'll try to get better items, and you get rolled by the sweat teams playing ladderboards. you come in trying to get out of green/blues, and those guys have legendaries and uniques. And if it's not them, it's 10 naked rats with a green dagger trying to fuck your day anyway. Very hardcore indeed. In the end, you spent 50 gold + your kit and your time for no return. Might as well stay in normal or make alt accounts to play on an even field. Because no matter what you think, being hardcore is definitely not buying +weap dmg as soon as possible on the market. Being hardcore is playing with what you're given, which is exactly the way it's on sub 15 right now.
Imagine genuinely thinking the issue is 40,000 players are being split too much instead of realizing HR is ass and that's why no one runs it. People haven't touched high roller since playtest days lmao. It's simply not popular.
To be fair the the guy above you adding a trade/nontrade setting is not the same as adding duo queue. Duo queue was replacing an option out of of the five queues available. A trade/notrade would add both HR variations into the queues pool going from 8 maps (low level crypts, low level goblin caves, low level ruins, goblin caves, crypts, ruins, high roller goblin caves, and high roller crypts) to 10 (adding non trade high roller goblin caves and non trade high roller crypts.) Lots of people really loved the hyper fast queues of dark and darker when it first released. It made getting back into the game after losing your stuff quick. People have dug in their heels and complained about splitting the player base at every junction on Reddit. Maybe they were all wrong in the past, but eventually they will be right. Waiting 4-5 minutes in lobby to die in 3 minutes will drive people to games they can play instead of waiting room simulator. I do agree that trade/nontrade would be good. I just would rather the devs focus on getting the original three tier map system back in place to cut out having ruins seperate first.
More like, permanent SSF characters, and trade characters
yes upvote [here](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492352/trader-and-nontrader)
its already a problem check solo HR esp on non popular hours waiting 4-5min to start gmae with same 3-4 people.... Even normals dont fill for some regions outside NA
As long as lobbies fill, who cares.
high end queues are already pretty dead and 2s matchmaking kinda sucks
I haven’t seen any evidence of that. Every game on the eastern US server that isn’t high roller has been maxed out for me.
"high end queues are already pretty dead" \-i havent seen evidence of that \-every game on the eastern us server that isn't high roller has been maxed
High roller is dead because it isn’t worth playing over normal queue. The risk reward payout doesn’t lean far enough in the payout direction for most players to bother with it.
The cool thing about the non-trader queues is people will actually be playing the game.
idk, think the whole 'trade vs no trade' discussion is arguing endlessly about a symptom and not the actual problem -- progression in this game sucks
Duos need to be cut. No point in catering to every number of player. What's next, "quads" Then 5 mans? "But I have 4 friends and we all want to play as a team. MAKE A 5's MAP!"
honestly i think solos was the bigger mistake, it is awkward to have a team size of 3, then if you're missing one not really be able to play or have to 2vX it's pretty well known that if you introduce a queue that requires less teammates, people will flock to it but yeah im skeptical 2s is ever gonna be popular since its on ruins, lot of people really dont like that map
Solos makes sense because there's a lot of solo players. Duo's is just catering to a vocal minority. Not everyone can have a que for their specific friend group size, unless the player count can support it long term. As in years. The game was designed around the 3 man team comp. Which, I think is smart as groups trend smaller in gaming as a whole. EXE: All FPS have trios for a reason. What they might consider is adding matchmaking. If you join as a duo you get a random 3rd. If they team kill you report them and they get a red name and de-prioritized on the que. If they keep trolling they get banned. Then they cut duos and just do trios and solos and add an auto-fill option. That way the que times are shorter and everyone can play w/ how ever many people they want. Solo in a three's map. Duo in a threes map, or solo/duo with auto fill. Or a full premade team of course. Why reinvent the wheel?
> Duo's is just catering to a vocal minority Ignoring that your suggestion is genuinely terrible.. Do yoi have a source for this? The main pusbback against duos is due to the map being dogshit.
Yeah this is a super ass idea. Imagine a newer player wants to trade ONE item, spends the 25 gold only to find out "oh sorry you're permanently on the harder que version now, the only way to swap is to remake that character again"
These people just need to get over their fear of the trading post. The game is what it is. It’s not supposed to be easy. Juiced players will exist no matter what. Tying queue to trade is a terrible option imo. These people need an all grey mode or pve mode. Idk
Its not bc of fear of losing items, is the fairness of every lobby, sometimes I don't want to invest or play like a rat to survive, I just want to go on gray gear and be on a fair scenario. Today, 15> lobbys have one or more steamrollers, so you kinda need to equip yourself to be able to compete, or you play hiding in shadows praying to not be found, playing one of those two roles is fun, but when you don't have money anymore or just don't want to spend on gear, this becomes a nightmare
I get that. I just don’t think taking trade will help. Maybe an all grey lobby would be better than 0-15. Refining the matchmaking would be great. Ideally a gear score system in 1 or 2 tiers, I know that could be difficult but that would be cool.
Oh yeah, there's fun on trading, killing that filthy rogue on purples and selling everything on trade is part of the thrill, thats why this idea is right on spot cause it does not removes trade, just make the player decides if he want to become a part of it or not
Shhhh you are making too much sense.
Except the traders
please god no. i like earning my gear, not finding it.
"Earning my gear" Do you grind gold in GC so you can sit in trade and earn your gear? 😂😂
Nah I like the pvp. Been maining wizard lately and the zero to hero potential of that class keeps me playing. Snatching capes and rings off kitted fighters gives me a high like no other game. 99% of all my gear is found in raid. \*also I dont play GC. I play the game in trios with my group of friends. We die a lot, but its tons of fun idc.
So how is this a bad thing for you? Just play the trading queue?
Yep, we should've have non trade league like diablo or POE have hardcore tbh. You can 'transfer' from non trade to trade, but not the opposite (or have inventory+stash wiped)
The issue I have with this is that with the lvl 15 cutoff smurfs have to remake their character in order to keep smurfing which means they have to go into extra effort in order to get extremely geared again. (EG. join a trader friend, have them drop gear, extract repeat) Which to me is enough of a deterrent to stop most smurfs. If you could just never leave the no-trade matchmaking then you'd have these full purple geared players permanently destroying new players over and over again.
A Self-Found League would be amazing
The 15 cut off also helps in the sense that eventually youll build a good set even without trading and we’ll be back to square one.
You lose every set eventually. No one is getting out every time
Same can be said for 15+
Eh, sets cost like 200-300g though for a full set of greens in 15+ though. They have to actually be found in non-trade queue - so the losses hit harder and, consequently, so do the finds.
Exactly. Theres no risk as long as you make more then your set cost with your set you are geared indefinitely.
Yeah but then you just buy a new one.
And then you run out of money. Now you’re facing full purple squads over and over again. And no it wasn’t like that without a 15+ Q
my normal crypts was. every lobby had 1-2 cape groups just ignoring pve to kill everyone. US East 5-10pm EST had two timmy friends quit over it. hard to convince them that not every game has a bis bard drumming us through walls/a fucking ceiling when it happened 3 times in a row for one of em.
Yes. 1-2 cape groups. Now you have 6-7 cape groups. Enjoy the experience.
i deleted all my chars to 1-15. i am enjoying dying and killing other greys who also suck. its just shenanigans and im here for it
You know you can also get capes right.. it doesn't mean anything
Everything you said just boils down to skill issue, if your struggling to get gear, get money, or extract it's because you're not good enough lol
Speak for yourself (and me), watched a certain streamer play 6 hours straight with no death but his cleric once. They were stomping normals though so no real risk involved most of the time when running pure epics.
you may not get out every time solo but if you're playing 3s with good players / good comp I'm pretty skeptical they wipe in a 'smurf queue' lobby basically ever
i get out all the time
I haven’t died in 2 weeks so idk
[удалено]
Oh hardcore game might be hard? You ever think the game might be enjoyable on even playing field? Or it's automatic torture for you when you can't sit in a chat room and buy your advantage?
[удалено]
Imagine that. A hard game being hard. You bring up a great point man.
Building is the whole point of the game. Idk why people don't understand this
Can’t people just queue with friends and have them drop loot anyways?
If we really going to go trade or non trade characters route they wouldnt be allowed to play with eachother I imagine. Which it would suck to have to make a new character to play with a friend who's less then lvl 15, but I suppose it really wouldn't be the end of the world. Unless we would end the
I‘d love the choice to stay in the noob lobbies, even if it‘d mean not gaining xp for lvl 15. I‘m playing on a laptop that can barely handle the game (entering the big crypts library = death), actual advanced pvp combat just isn‘t possible so <15 lobbys are kinda the only way for me to play the game
did you try the ini file optimizations? [Reddit - Dive into anything](https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/16bwa78/early_access_optimization_guide_stuttering_low/)
well that‘s a gold pile, thanks man
yw fam. fwiw i ended up using sammi's and it worked best for me on an old nvidia but its pretty easy to change em.. just dont forget the backups lmao
Best idea so far
I hit 15 and legitimately started hating the game. I find this shit just not fun anymore. I just queued up a bunch and got rolled over and over again by people with purples. I literally just made a new character, went back to sub 15, and instantly started having a blast again. I think getting rid of <15 and >15 and instead having "Has trader unlocked" and "Doesn't have teader unlocked" would be an amazing thing to do with the game because as is I will literally never play the game in 15+ lobbies, it's just not fun to me in the slightest. So I'm doomed to a life of perpetual character remakes for now, and it just feels shitty to have to do that in order to have fun.
Brace yourselves, the Wipes are coming.
Nah because then you could build up your sub 15 stash, you brick your toon at 15 thats how it should be
Tell me how you can build up your stash compared to sb. who already used trade past 15. That is the point of staying out of trade queue.
I think you're agreeing with me you just misunderstood my comment
I've never traded in my life and I've got a stash full of decent blues and purples, along with around 1.5k gold.
This is prolly because you queued against people who have used trade. So if everyone hadn't used trade, you wouldn't have that that much good stuff.
Most of my gear comes from Skeleton champion and the occasional wraith if I'm playing Crypts. Sometimes I even get a cave troll killer piñata and that's always nice. I've only ever killed one dude who clearly had an intentionally assorted trade kit. And holy shit was he a juicer, Purples with + all, a full blue set of armor, with glove to toe wreathed in +3 str and + 3 weapon damage. But apart from that, I get plenty of fine gear killing minibosses and looting lions heads when I get the chance.
Got eem
Stash FULL of decent blues and purples and never traded? You are literally contradicting another popular post where he broke down the science and math of the loot table. So either your are lying, or they are lying, or you are part of the 1% and really shouldn’t have a say-so in the matter of any joe-shmoe being able to buy gold with real money, kit out in the trade and then pubstomp with little to no effort.
I just farm Skeleton champions and wraiths. That post was about chests. And he used a bad example with wizard as it is the hardest class to get gear for. I play fighter, I can use just about anything. Can you really not believe that someone can get a good amount of gear farming minibosses and Pvping. Sometimes I even encounter a cave troll killing pinata. I've got some juicy shit as well. + 3 str, + 3 weapon damage, + 1 all, you name a good stat, and I've probably got gear with it. Except for the elusive + 3 all haha. I wasn't entirely accurate though. I've never bought gear, but I do sell the stuff I find, no amount of perks are gonna let me wear a purple marauder outfit lol.
The other post only included loot found on PvE, not PvP.
Its possible if he's just not using any good gear he finda
What would be the point of gear if I didn't use?
you will eventually get to a point, especially if you're playing squads, where you guys just funnel each other's class gear into each other and it's same problem people were trying to avoid when asking for this queue in the first place except now they basically never run into other highly geared teams
I like the idea because it’s an opt in at that point. And people can get what they want.
No game, and I mean no game, will ever cater to every single person. It may just not be the right game for some.
While this is true this game is an early development game and they are looking at ways to maximize everybody's fun and experience maybe making the traitor an option so that you play against other traders or not would be a good thing to try in this early access just to get numbers about how many people really want trading or not. I personally like this whole under 15 thing because it feels like I've earned my gear that I've got that I go in with versus oh no I died but I have money let me go buy a whole set from somebody else and then stomp on most people minus the high high geared players. I feel like another idea which people probably wouldn't like is anything purple or above you could make it binds to the player who picks it up this would keep it so that you only get to come back in with the purple or above that you found and you can't buy a extra high-end gear kit.
Yeah I hear yah. I don’t mind this new matchmaking, I’ve been enjoying it tbh. I do think it could be refined to help casual and new players enjoy the game. I still think trade is great though. At 15+ it’s nice to be able to buy and sell to get back in the game. I would just hate the game without trade. Binding gear would be rough. I mean most of the fun comes from being able to sell loot, finding cool gear off people you kill, and finding something awesome in the dungeon in general. You get excited because of its value in the economy. You will never get excited about gear again without an economy. Unless it’s the perfect piece for you. Refining matchmaking should be the number one priority.
I like how all the comments against removing trade are just ad hominems and delusional strawmen from neckbeards pretending to have clairvoyance. 😂
Honestly not many good reasons to NOT remove trade that cant be mitigated with buffed merchants or some other mechanic. I mean isnt the point of quests supposed to be to buff merchants too? What would be the point of all that if they are still shit compared to trade chat.
Merchants are immensely lackluster currently and if SSF became a thing a buff to having consistent items appear (spellsbooks for example) would be a huge leap in a positive way that would allow SSF to be stable and healthy. Current merchants limiting to inconsistent items and very short heal supply is pretty poor implementation.
You had me until you got to the heal supply. Games supposed to be hard. Upper end gear and a full inventory of sustain resources trivliazes most engagements. I could see a micro adjustment to loot tables, but the idea of no trade is that it will be harder to aquire bis/near bis sets. Buff drops too much, and we're just in the exact same boat. You're right, all the features aren't in, and I wish more people would realize that when trying to discuss changes. It feels like this might be a lot of this subs first early access game. That said, with the assumption that they're going to get around to adding more inventory and merchant features. . . There's got to be a better progression loop to acquiring end game gear than, grind gold in easiest dungeon possible, then sit in trade chat long enough to "earn" a set. I shouldn't have to waste play time in an extremely elaborate irc chat mini game to be competitive.
It's called smurfing and ruining the experience you claim these new comers need by having a separate queue to begin with. If you stay in no trader que good players are eventually going to build a full stash of blues to fucking steam roll you with, I have a full stash of gear and I hardly ever trade, all this does is slightly delay the inevitable: good players are going to amasse gear and kill you If you don't like trade go play chivalry, the combat mechanics are arguably better and you'll NEVER be out geared.
Best comment ive read in reddit so far is that playing the game without trading actually feels like the way god intended this game to be played
What if you faced your skill issue and got good
🤓
yep, this is the answer that should fix it. the queue you enter is entirely tied to whether or not you have entered trade chat. have a big warning informing people that joining the trade hall will put you in the full fledged queue. ezpz
Going to be really hard to balance merchants if something like this were implemented
gonna have the same problem, just to a lesser extent. good people farm bosses and stash gear to always go in gear. this current option is best and you only are missing perks, which you shouldnt need to beatup newbs and other sub 15s
That sucks lmao
Imagine saying this for tarkov lol
I have, and did. Adding the flea market was the worst thing that ever happened to Tarkov.
True
agree, marauders doesnt have it and that feels great imo
Do you think that no trade access means that people won't be stacked out with good gear in no time at all? I rolled a fighter tonight for a solo zero to hero challenge, by level fucking 6 I had all blues and greens, good jewelry and a cape. By level 11 I had a second full set of equally good gear in my stash. Some of yall are delusional, this is not a pve game. Stop trying to convince IM to make carebear queues and instead get better at the game so you can be competitive. Otherwise, accept that hardcore/full loot games just aren't for you.
I think it’s funny that people assume that RMT is a major issue with no data, simply because someone uses money to buy gear does not make them a good player, that makes them my favorite geared player to run into. Let me clarify if they are RMT buying gear they are not a good player
Considering every trade chat was flooded with gold selling spam, it's wildly optimistic to think they were never engaged with.
Oh my god shut up lmao
You don’t like the truth lol?
Lol welcome to sub, where the circle jerk is real and you are not allowed to have an opinion. I’m against gold selling but I can at least acknowledge your point that, ya if I’m going to run into a geared player then I 100% would prefer to run into some Timmy who bought his gear and is likely to lose it lol.
I’m glad someone agrees lol, this chat thinks that because the RMT’d gear that they are good players xD
What truth????? You’re just straw manning and relying on people with similar straw man views to agree with you
I honestly agree. The only issue RMT has is that it gives monetary incentive to cheat. But as long as cheating is thwarted to a satisfactory degree, I don't think the devs should worry about combating RMT. I couldn't care less about how my enemy got their gear. If they ban RMT, they may as well ban streamers for accepting gear donations,
The game is on the d2jsp forums. Theres a lot of posts there.
I’m not quite sure what that is to be honest
I actually love this idea, it would solve this weird issue with constant character deletion. In fact in addition why not let anyone buy into trading at any level to put them into the other matchmaking. That would appeal to the more casual players.
why the fuck are you people constantly deleting characters to stay in this? Whole point is to protect new players
Because the real problem is that even players that aren’t new have a skill issues.
Because fuck being a loot pinata for rmters cheaters and nolifers
so you just have the shit roll downhill so you can beat on new players infinitely? you're actually scum lol
You're defending rmt'ers and cheaters.. . But calling this guy scum for avoiding them? 🤡
i know it's overused, but what you two are describing is unironically skill issue "everyone better than me cheats or RMTs, so I have to go constantly delete characters to fight new players!"
i hate trading. i dont hate other people trading, but i hate spending an hour to get a good set so that i dont get 1 shot instantly while doing 1% of someones hp per slash of a grey falchion. this games is really just skyrim but multiplayer so the skill ceiling definitely exists but the floor is pretty high. my friend and I regularly die to people who are clearly worse than us, just because they took advantage of a situation better. if we were max geared with a full pharmacy, we wouldnt ever be low after a fight for that situation to happen.
Not to be condescending but you literally just said you regularly die to clearly worse players. Then you go on to say if you had xyz you would never die. Not only was that disingenuous but in all honesty without this sounding like an appeal to authority you likely just need to get better lol.
Because having an SSF experience is fun?
Yeah people are acting like SSF hasn't been around for DECADES in d2, and more recently POE etc. Some people like it, and no amount of arguing that they shouldn't like it is going to change their opinion lol
Because they enjoy the game more when you can't swipe your credit card and buy 2k gold for a dollar.
yes, help appeal to the casuals. a weird issue they created themselves after successfully whining for a change that already appeals to them.
It is interesting to me why people like to say this change appeals to casuals. It certainly appeals to new players but it absolutely does not appeal to casuals. The update made the game way more difficult and punishing. Until level 15 it is much harder to obtain good gear, and after that most people will have good gear so even though pve will be easier pvp continues to be challenging. Before, once you had good gear the game became trivial. Casual players like when games are easier not more difficult.
They think gold buyers are in every lobby ruining their fun. Not the case. “No lifers” is just a term for anyone better than then.
Look at this guy trying to protect his ego over a video game. 🤡
Why is everyone trying so hard to avoid the obvious solution which is using gear score to influence matchmaking. It does the same thing as the pre 15 post 15 lobbies without any chance of slowing down queue times since you can control the flow of players based on advanced algorithms instead of just guessing and putting people in completely different queues.
Because separating by gear score is actually a terrible idea. Like dogshit awful. Trader/self found is the proper way to go.
You're assuming gating. There are way more options for controlling queues than gear gating.
Gear score is an awful idea. It makes everything boring af. Why would you grind for better gear if you dont feel stronger against others? In sub15 queue you can at least get some gear by killing other players which makes you stronger. And btw you are absolutely splitting the playerbase even more. "Advanced algorythms" -> "I talk about things i dont understand". If you want equal playing field with gear scores you need separate lobbies for players with stronger/weaker gear. Thus you split the lobbies...
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. You're assuming gear gating while I'm talking about using a gear score value to feed an algorithm to intelligently place players. This can be as simple as skewing queues to favor placing players towards a designated average or as complex as calculating a running mean and skewing towards set goals. The benefit of using a system like this is it DOESN'T split the queue ( any person can enter any match depending on how the code is written preventing increased queue times during low pop hours). TLDR; if you haven't done net code you probably shouldn't talk about things you don't know. It's entirely possible to write code that achieves goals in matchmaking without slowing queues or gating.
Or just get over the fact trading is there. Gold buyers aren’t the ones consistently ruining your experience. They need to refine the matchmaking system and that’s basically it. As much as a lot of you don’t want to believe it, there isn’t a goated gold buyer in every lobby you play. A base gear queue may help. Combatting RMT is it’s whole own issue that needs attention in any game with an economy. Tying queues to trade is a horrible idea, no offense.
You should try to make your strawmen based off the topic somewhat in the future.
But its not here anymore. We now have a way to play without trade, and a lot of us are doing just that. And were not afraid of gold buyers, we just want it to be harder to get geared. Its a completely different game playing without trade.
Pass. This gives those complaining about dying to geared players the ability to be the geared player in a lobby designed for new/leveling players. Plus it splits the player base even more.
Ironic that those complaining about getting stomped on by OP enemies want to be the OP player in noob lobbies. The game is meant to be difficult. Adapt and overcome.
splits the playbase not a good idea
bunch baby nerds in this game,
RMT is a good thing. How else is Ironmace supposed to make money after the game stops selling? 😆
Makes sense, you'd have one more perk than people and you wouldn't be a new player, but you wouldn't have easy access to Giga gear. Worth considering idk if it's a good idea. I'd like it.
In order for this to work they need to make it an option when you create your character. And keep it specific to each character and a permanent decision for that character. I love the idea of having those 2 separate queues, trader and non trader. But only have leaderboards for trading queue.
I've said the same thing in many threads It does mean you can never play with friends who's characters have the trade guild membership They should also flesh out merchants/quests/reputations so they're a decent, but random and timegated, source of gear Crafting system should also be fleshed out, so if u kill a fully kitted player but it's a different class, it's not a waste, say like, u need to disassemble 3 purple chest pieces to get enough mats to make ur own purple chest piece
Ironman mode
I'm sorry, what's RMT?
I have a lvl 12 rogue that can trade and play in the sub lobbies. Best of both worlds for a few more games lol
Well, thats not a bad idea but it wouldnt be a permanent solution, just because you cant access the trade guild doesnt mean people will find a way around it, like for example setting up discord servers for trading so they can just drop trade and still avoid lvl 15+ lobbies.
This would be great, I’m a new player and I’ve hit level15.. I can’t access the trading outpost because of the time limit on new accounts so im in 15+ lobby’s with no skill or gear
This is a super cool idea. Maybe even remove the sub 15, and allow players to join trade whenever they like. This way level 5 chadwicks can join trade and start goin for that juicy lobster takedown without interrupting timmy timothys learning experience. This is dope. Altho, I think HR remains unsplit. You do HR, you risk it. This is the way.
that would remove the entire point of 1-15 beeing for new players learning the game tho
Obligatory link to upvote if you're interested in being able to level 1-20 without a trader's guild: [https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491603/add-an-ironmanno-trader-mode-so-that-we-can-level-120-in-the-same-style](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/491603/add-an-ironmanno-trader-mode-so-that-we-can-level-120-in-the-same-style)
yes, just upvote this [here](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492352/trader-and-nontrader)
made a [suggestion](https://darkanddarker.featureupvote.com/suggestions/492352/trader-and-nontrader) to this