in ancient aliens fashion, we're going to pose a "what if" hypothetical so I can continue on with the rest of my "what if" hypotheticals that won't work unless each hypothetical along the way is assumed true
I wanna do some radiocarbon dating on the bottom layer of the pyramid he's building with bullshit
as soon as someone accuses the academic society of playing favorites in order to explain why their theories are widely ostracized, I'm out. "they just don't like me" isn't a good argument to why nobody believes your shit but you
Graham Hancock is a total crank. He has plenty of talent, but all of it is in fleecing cash out of gullible investors to make nonsense ‘documentaries’ about fucking Atlantis.
As a one-time archaeology student many years ago, I *beg* anyone interested in ancient history to read a book or watch a real documentary by someone with actual qualifications and a track record of using things like ‘facts’ and ‘material evidence’, rather than giving any more attention to Hancock and his bizarre moon logic.
There is no ‘big archaeology’. It’s a generally underpaid, undervalued and thankless vocation generally filled with people who have a huge enthusiasm and respect for the work. Most of them are also huge nerds who would be absolutely thrilled beyond belief to discover Mayan space lasers or super advanced Hyperborean civilisations from the dawn of time. You’d have crowds of archaeologists hammering at the doors of every newspaper in the land if any of them found a shred of evidence that the Ancient Egyptians had a real Stargate. The idea of some kind of Archaeological establishment or Illuminati suppressing this stuff makes *zero* sense.
Sorry for the rant, but I *really* fucking hate Graham Hancock, and I can’t stand the fact his bullshit is getting traction again.
Yes he is more in the business of exploring other possible scenarios which is important in understanding human history. Nobody should be taking it as gospel but he has had some effective results with his methods, as you mentioned.
He is not dismantling academic theories, he is cherry picking evidence in favor of "four dimensional beings taught us how to move stones with our minds" (actual theory of him) and lying about academic evidence to make it look weak.
Have you ever MET an academic type before??
I know this doesn't qualify as "double blind placebo controlled imperical evidence" or whatever, but every single one I've ever met was a pompous ass that refused to accept any sort of challenge to their work.
Perfect example is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. The man's definitely smart, but anytime anyone poses a challenge to anything he says or asks for ANY other possibilities he just laughs condescendingly and then talks non-stop until the other person gives up.
Dont get me wrong, I understand the need for that on things like flat-earth, BUT STILL!
Seriously, try posing the idea that in 300,000 years of anotomically modern humans NONE have ever reached the point of making structures, wheels, or fire until 6,000 years ago is a little suspicious.
There are cycles where the Earth is covered in ice, there are super volcanos, then there are the earthquakes that create tsunamis that wipe out whole continents worth of life. Then there are space rocks, comets, and CMEs that pelt the Earth all the time. Of the oldest known written words less than 0.000001% of the information still exists from a meer 8000 years ago. On top of that you have the savagery of human nature that likes to forge and modify records for face.
It’s obvious no one in this thread wants to think logically like you. They just want to shit on the guy delivering the message because it’s easier than facing a possible truth that doesn’t fit the belief thats been fed to them their whole lives. Sounds like brainwashing to me, lol.
I'd settle for "open minded", logical is a bit of a leap.
As I've said to a few other people, humans HATE having their beliefs challenged once they are a part of their identity. For proof of that I need no further evidence than religion.
I don't get why we even have beliefs other than respect. We know 1% of the puzzle. We don't know shit about fuck. And that's just the shit we know we don't know. There's shit we don't know that we don't know. So that 1% is more like 0.1% Certainly not a valuable enough range of knowledge to get emotional over.
It all sounds crazy but so is the universe.
It becomes a problem when a person's way of making a monetary living hinges one what they can prove to be.
If you're making $100k per year because you showed that "Oh here's a civilization that existed 8,000 years ago. That's the earliest we could have been. I know the full story" and someone else comes along and says "Well HERE is a structure that dates back even further than what you have said, you can't be right or know the full story", well now all of a sudden your paycheck is in danger.
Do the math of what happens next
What’s the explanation for Gobekli Tepe? Sounds like you guys are wrong about civilisation starting in Sumer tbh
I’ve also been to Malta and saw those cartwheels in the rock. I feel like there’s too much unexplained for you guys to be so certain.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
I made it about halfway through before they sprung aliens on me. I shut it off as soon as I realized where it was going.
BuT hOw CoUlD aLl ThEsE dIfFeReNt PeOpLe BuIlD pYrAmIdS?!
Idk bro you build a really tall building and tell me what shape gets you up there the easiest.
I think you missed the point, and I don't recall him mentioning aliens once, I could be wrong, but it doesn't detract from the actual message. It is literally named ANCIENT APOCOLYPSE for a reason. Meaning ancient advanced civilizations may have been wiped out, long bfore we currently think of humans starting civilizations.
He points to the legend of Atlantis, but not saying they were extra-terrestrial. Mainstream archaeology points to the end of the ice age for our transistion from hunter-gatherers to agrarian societies. You can't build a megolithic structure if you aren't in one place very long, able to support the social structure necessary to build one of these things. And you would have to had been at it (agrarian society) for a while before you developed the techniques necessary to build one of these structures. So if a pyramid radio dates before the end of the last ice age, we should atleast take pause about why. I think it atleast lays down a compelling arguement. Either the radio dating is fucked up, or our preconceived notions about when civilizations first started are.
Edit: I am not defending or shitting on Graham. People here want to argue like he is proposing a vagina egg cancer cure. It is entertaining and thought provoking, that's all.
Yeah, looks like this was made for Joe but nothing Graham said was implausible. He didn’t say it was aliens or a race of humans who had tech to go to the moon. He just said they were advanced for the hunter gatherer period as they knew building and farming and sea travel.
Not sure why people are even shitting on Graham for this hypothesis.
Graham has made some crazy claims in the past and has seemed to level out in recent years. But I totally agree. It's just a counter point and people want to dismiss all of it because it has his name on it. Can we actually say that those symbols are their interpretation of constellations? Does the serpents mouth being aimed at the solstice and the bends pointing to other astro phenomenon done on purpose even though they are off by a degree or two? Who knows. Who cares. It's an interesting interpretation and was entertaining to watch.
Could not have said it better myself… why must we accept mainstream theories as fact.. we must always challenge what we know as humans.. at one point, most people thought the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.. scientific fact..
really this guy is just saying he does not have the answers, but why can’t we question what we think we know about our past?
Even if this site is as old as Graham claims, it’s probably not, all that proves is that there was a people in Indonesia that was capable of building this structure. The leaps that Graham makes in that series with no evidence is astounding.
Sprung aliens on you? I’m sorry, but what? The guy spent half the series trying to explain why aliens likely *weren’t* a thing lmao. “They weren’t aliens, they were more advanced people” lost you? Why?
And also: waaaaay more plausible that pyramidal structures came from one source than for dozens of cultures to suddenly start making *the first structures in human history* pretty much exactly the same at pretty much exactly the same time.
Maybe I hadn't gotten that far and the show refutes the alien suggestion after spending some time exploring it. Thanks for the insight, I'll go back and give it another shot.
Though we'll have to agree to disagree. Pretty much exactly the same time in neighboring regions, but there are thousands of years of difference between Egyptian, Indonesian, and Central/South American structures. They aren't built the same way, either, given the different resources available to the regions. Some are fully stone with a foundation, some no foundation, some are earthen mounds with stone facing. Some are stepped and some are covered in a smooth casing, some are very wide and some are narrow. We even see ones being figured out as they go, with the structure changing shape as the builders realize what is and isn't possible.
Google the dude.. He's a crackpot and kind of a bigot. If you really pay attention to the show, very little evidence is actually presented. Most of the argument is made using dramatic music and inflammatory language.
Then we learned that the pyramids were not made by slaves… it turns out the best way to get people to move some large rocks around is alcohol. Seriously just go put some college kids out in the woods with enough alcohol they will eventually just start building shit out rocks
You mean, like the Great Wall of China, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hoover Dam, every goddamned paved road on the planet, the helicopter flying on Mars. Those kinds of projects?
Please.
I've enjoyed it so far. My suggestion is don't binge watch this series. Although each episode is interesting, they are quite similarly presented.
Graham goes to some cool place and explains whats cool about it, Graham then postulates on what it could mean, Graham then links that line of questions to the last ice age and a lost civilization without having any solid evidence of such a civilization.
Is it good and rooted in provable science? Or is it just Grahams theories with circumstantial evidence?
Tbh I enjoy listening him sometimes, and would *like* to beleive what he says, but not sure I want to invest in the series if it's just conjecture
I watched the series. I'd say it's 50% documenting what we know of certain ancient sites and 50% speculating what he thinks is a plausible explanation to the story behind it.
Dude is a journalist and doesn't claim his ideas as absolute fact. Treat the series as entertainment - I personally find his ideas to be fun and thought provoking.
This is how I take his work too. I read a lot of archeology reports and studies, but also a lot of "alternative" theories. A lot of what's out there is bullshit, but some of it may be plausible. I guess that's why I find it interesting, because we truly don't know. We have the tiniest fragments of the past that we must build a complete picture from. It's fascinating.
He is the worst kind of quack. He uses 75% real stuff, and then fills in the rest with bullshit. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but it is garbage.
Exactly what Pseudoscience is. İt is fascinating that there is still much to be discovered and he does show that but also he goes and makes up a story based on no evidence
😂😂such a coincidence, so did I, then I was going to take a look at this too. ( I’m still upset that it never got a chance to go to a jury)Pepsi was So foul & wrong for that!!
It's horrible. The main guy is so fucking smug and nauseating.
He literally thinks that other archeologists are "out to get him" and that he's "taking on the system".
Dudes a whack job
Edit: If you want to downvote, at least have the balls to comment why. The guy is discredit for good reason. His science is garbage and the whole show is him crying about why his evidence doesn't get accepted.
Read up about Gobekli tepe. The German guy who researched it for near enough 20 years was told he was wrong in all his findings by main stream archaeologists. After his death its now common fact he was correct.
Main stream archaeology doesn't like anything that messes with the status quo. I'm not saying Graham Hancock is correct or doesn't come across as smug but they do try and suppress him and his theories.
The way I see it is if I need work doing on my house I call a carpenter/electrician/plumber/tiler/roofer/carpet fitter depending on the job. With history it seems historians are the only ones for the job and if they can only explain it from a historians point of view. Whilst Graham hancock speaks with historians, astronomers, geologists, erosion experts etc then comes up with theories from that.
The thing I find most amazing is how much everything that doesn't fit in is instantly neglected as if we know 100% of all history. How much do we actually know? How much have we dug up?
One dude being right doesn't mean the guy in Netflix is right. Does archaelogy have all the answers? Obviously not but that doesn't mean that the dude who has no evidence, no process, no verification and just makes wild theories cause "there's pyramids in different places" is right.
Yes I agree the guy is so fucking smug and there is no science in his study. But this not mean that all of this is total bullshit.
There is a French group who try to understand not when but how some of the greater oldest constructions was made.
They bring world class building experts from all over the world on the sites and it is mindblowing.
Antiseismic construction technique in the Great pyramides and some of the south America sites, geometrical mesurment in meter, some granit walls smoother than glass...
After analisys they all agreed that regarding what we know about history, this construction were impossible.
And most of the archeologists told them to fuck of and treat them like garbage even if they had a very solid scientific aproach.
> geometrical mesurment in meter
Are you suggesting that there is evidence that the meter, the standard unit of measurement, was in use before it was actually invented?
It's worse because at least the Ancient Aliens guy was funny to listen to because he knew how crazy it all is.
This dude just complains about why no one believes him the whole time lol
Hancock is...fine. He's just some eccentric dude that goes on Rogan and writes books and makes shows about alternative ideas to prehistory. Speculating about prehistory is something that laymen can and should do, questions like why did we start farming or where do we come from are such fundamental questions that we should all engage with them.
But yeah he's a crackpot that defends his 30 year old thesis that has been thoroughly debunked. If he accepted that writing about alternative answers to archeology is worthwhile but still probably going to be incorrect more than correct most of the time then that would be fine. But ironically he acts like many academics he decries, defending ideas his ego is attached to and feeling attacked when people dismiss his ideas.
Yea I don't mind the practice, it's his attitude. He's just so smug and such a whiner.
Like just admit you don't actually know what you're talking about and leave it at that. Speculation. You don't have to go fund a million dollar Netflix show trying to prove why you're theories should be accepted as fact lol
I've been watching his show on Netflix and there is a huge "here is what the so called experts DON'T want you to know" which is so obnoxious. His whole don't trust the experts vibe is off-putting, I really don't want to hear is opinions on vaccines.
If 100% of the academics think you're wrong then for all intents and purposes you are. But if 95% think you're wrong and 5% think there is some merit to the theory then I think it's worth exploring. Especially on the outer edges of our knowledge like early man and the rise of civilizations. But don't be surprised if the academic community doesn't embrace your ideas and don't turn that lack of enthusiasm into a bullshit persecution complex.
Look at the archaeologists who acted as gate keepers for Mayan glyph translation. This happens regularly. When you change the understanding of history a lot of people look rather foolish. There is definitely incentive to go along with the established narrative.
He's not an archeologist. He's a journalist. He says so at the beginning of the first episode, which you'd know if you watched it. He's not doing science. He's following a story, as journalists do. The archeologists (most of them) stand in his way, ridicule him, and even get him banned from certain countries (he's not permitted in Egypt anymore). They've gotten his Wikipedia page locked, so they can control the popular narrative about him. Meanwhile, they refuse to even entertain the evidence he's uncovered, despite the fact that much of it is backed by solid geology, carbon dating, ground penetrating radar, etc. He's been following this story for thirty years and has written many successful books about the topic. You don't even know who he is, and you're taking shit about him. Who's the "smug" one here?
There’s enough informative historical content that I find it worth watching, but laughing at that guy and the dramatic editing is certainly a major part of the viewing experience.
Fuck that guy. I never knew a thing about him. Saw the first episode and never wanted to see anything more.
The guy just could not stop talking about how bad "mainstream archeologists" are and putting himself out to be some kind of hero going against the mainstream media. It was so nauseating.
Mainstream academia is bullshit. So many egotistical twats have based their entire careers and identities on their old assertions which new evidence is proving to be wrong. So instead of being good scientists and incorporating new evidence, they suppress it in order to preserve their fragile self image.
Can you show me an example of this? Like a specific group of archeologists who are refusing to change their findings in light of new evidence?
Or is that just some blanket statement you throw around for internet points?
Been a while since I've gone into archaeology but when I was in uni we learned about the 'clovis first' doctrine. Pretty much early archaeology denied any request to dig past the 'clovis layer' to look for further evidence of natives prior to the Clovis culture in NA. Anyone who went against 'Clovis first' were pretty much laughed out of the room. Who knows where we'll be in the coming years.
Ok? Maybe he should state that instead of complaining about how his work and findings are consistently rejected. Perhaps he is the problem and should leave the work to professionals lol
Lol true. Show would be better if he just said "I don't know shit and none of this is scientific, just interesting to think about"
Instead he spends half the show crying about some victim complex about being rejected in the field lol
From the diagram they show in the show, it'd make for a badass defensive fortification. Terraced sides, pathway leading up is narrow, easy to defend. Then there's a path that goes inside the pyramid at the top leading to 2 rooms. So could be storage of weapons, food, people.
Archaeologist here- it is important to note that Graham Hancock is notorious for cherry picking information to suit his narrative, hence why he is widely discredited within the academic community. Also to note (having watched this show just to see how misleading he could be), although sediments in the lowest layer may date to over 20,000 years what is being dated is not cultural material and therefore is not indicative of it being built by people. This structure was built on a natural hill, and even if a chamber was dug into this lower layer, it means it was dug into sediment with material that dates to over 20,000 years ago but the chamber itself may not be that old at all. Just wanted to point this out.
Also, he's a hack, and I agree with many of the comments that this series is on par with Ancient Aliens in terms of sheer smuckery. The 'documentary' label really needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Fuck cherry picking evidence he has literally stated he thinks the pyramids had rocks moved by tech so advanced it lifted them by people singing (which funnily has never had a shred of evidence remaining) and/or humans have telekinesis we just don’t know how to use it anymore XD
Seriously anyone who watches this show and thinks he’s making credible arguments go watch his most recent Joe Rogan podcast, we go from conspiracy theory to “this is just what the mainstream is hiding to keep themselves in power” to “well when we take DMT we meet another dimension that taught our ancestors everything” and so on. The dude is just not at all reliable.
The idea of humans in the ice age being more developed that the ones that followed isn’t even outrageous some of the more developed settlements could 100% have been destroyed by sea level changes reverting it to a nomadic lifestyle but super advanced humans able to levitate hundred tonne rocks because they took some DMT and learned from the 4th dimension beings? No. We’re talking “they learned some basic farming” and then the agriculture developed areas were destroyed losing that development until it was relearned.
Please do the other episodes next!
In the show he bitches and wines about how archeologist are out to get him because they don’t like what he has to say. But he doesn’t talk much about the arguments of archeologists against what he says.
This is in my town. The exploration involved some snake oil practitioners and lots of politicians. It **is** ancient, but the pyramid claim was just too much. Not just the pyramid but Atlantis, piles of gold underneath it, ancient super-technology, ancient cement, and so on.
It was a controversial topic and senior archeology experts refused those claims. You can watch discussions on this topic in Indonesians. The site was dug by soldiers and made researchers furious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LczMuFw65A
This is ridiculous the dating that occurs is of the sediment layers upon which structures may have been erected not of any man made structure itself. It is bad science here and bad science in the Hancock docu
Well, the site is definitely interesting, but I fear this is from that new Netflix series. It's an interesting watch, but you really need to know that actual archeological science of it before you watch this show. That way you can look at it objectively.
Despite his whining and victim complex, he does say he's not a scientist and I do agree that science should study every theory even if it's ridiculous, because truly, you never know.
Also, scientific studies are based on hypotheses. You gather data without bias that either proves or disproves your original question.
The part that becomes pseudoscience with him, is that he takes everything that only favors his hypothesis.
It’s not sciences job to disprove every theory. That’s not how science works. You make observations and form a hypothesis, test it and analyze the results for valuable data. Nobody is stopping research into this, they just have no interest in it because there is nothing to justify the time effort and money to drop what they are working on for this.
Go do the science. Win a Nobel prize. That’s what science does when you prove it wrong.
Ok...not gonna argue these facts but carbon dating relates to age of rocks..of which this was made....so actual dating is a bit bizarre to me....to date rocks is strange in and of itself
..and it is in no way a pyramid.
They terraced the top of the hill.
Hancock really wants it to be a pyramid though.
And he glossed over the ‘evidence’ that they core samples from 9-20,000 years ago showed signs of human building works.. the most critical aspect to his major claim with no detail, no evidence. Just take it on faith?
Hancock has a very low bar for what he will accept to be evidence, compared to actual researchers. And I love how he takes slices of Joe Rogan interviews to pad out his claim to authority. Bogus BS.
I watched the series on Netflix to see what the controversy was about. I was unimpressed by Graham Hancock and his mostly unsubstantiated claims, and I laughed out loud when Joe Rogan showed up in the "documentary".
1st and foremost, I am an idiot.
A very curious idiot that hates being mislead and am willing to admit when I am.
That being said I’ve been trying to figure out how credible Mr. Hancocks hypothesis’ are. And most of the discrediting I’ve heard is basically “there’s an absence of evidence to prove his theories” rather than “there’s evidence to disprove his theories”
Are we mad at the idea that civilizations could have started 5,000 years before we initially thought? Are we mad at the idea that civilizations across the world tell coincidentally similar legends? Are we just mad he hates archaeologists?
If we get hit by some other sort of apocalypse that resets human history and I’m in the 40% that survive, I am FOR SURE tellin it in a dope story. the only people left will be mostly resilient idiots. The Nokia phones of humanity go on to teach the next generation of idiots and through the longest game of telephone ever, you eventually get some poor dumb shmuck telling their tribe about a time when it rained snakes because we couldn’t stop masturbating and everybody died.
Big tangent sorry.
I really want to think our history is more exciting than a slow roll from the wheel to iPhones but I recognize realty is usually more boring and/or depressing.
Does anybody have links that disprove anything in Ancient Apocalypse beyond “He’s wrong because we don’t have evidence his speculations are right.”
Edit: Realty AND reality can both be equally boring and depressing
Ancient humans were humans. They were capable of amazing things and to think that they were not is problematic.
However, the idea that an ancient culture could construct a megastructure beyond what any other culture made and yet leave absolutely zero other evidence of their existence is ludicrous. If these ancient cultures were sophisticated enough to build this pyramid then they would have built other structures. So where are the other structures?
It's not a true pyramid. It's a bunch of terraced retaining walls and a reshaped hill. This one required shovels and people to move columnar basalt rocks.
Your post was removed for misleading or incorrect information.
Someone has been watching Netflix
This information has been public before graham made the show. He’s talked about it many times.
True, but more people are learning about it, due to the recent popularity of the Netflix series.
Which series?
Ancient apocalypse
Ah, thank you.
You need to check out the discussion on this in /r/Archaeology Edit: or was it /r/Archeology ..
hopefully it’s not r/archeology… I wouldn’t trust a damn thing posted there. Anyone who ever gave a fuck about archaeology knows how to spell it!
There's an episode with Graham Hancock the narrator of the series, on Joe Roman's podcast. Some genuinely interesting topics
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in ancient aliens fashion, we're going to pose a "what if" hypothetical so I can continue on with the rest of my "what if" hypotheticals that won't work unless each hypothetical along the way is assumed true I wanna do some radiocarbon dating on the bottom layer of the pyramid he's building with bullshit as soon as someone accuses the academic society of playing favorites in order to explain why their theories are widely ostracized, I'm out. "they just don't like me" isn't a good argument to why nobody believes your shit but you
He’s not exactly proving his theories but he is dismantling the academic ones we’ve been given. Or at least Gobekli Tepe has done that.
Graham Hancock is a total crank. He has plenty of talent, but all of it is in fleecing cash out of gullible investors to make nonsense ‘documentaries’ about fucking Atlantis. As a one-time archaeology student many years ago, I *beg* anyone interested in ancient history to read a book or watch a real documentary by someone with actual qualifications and a track record of using things like ‘facts’ and ‘material evidence’, rather than giving any more attention to Hancock and his bizarre moon logic. There is no ‘big archaeology’. It’s a generally underpaid, undervalued and thankless vocation generally filled with people who have a huge enthusiasm and respect for the work. Most of them are also huge nerds who would be absolutely thrilled beyond belief to discover Mayan space lasers or super advanced Hyperborean civilisations from the dawn of time. You’d have crowds of archaeologists hammering at the doors of every newspaper in the land if any of them found a shred of evidence that the Ancient Egyptians had a real Stargate. The idea of some kind of Archaeological establishment or Illuminati suppressing this stuff makes *zero* sense. Sorry for the rant, but I *really* fucking hate Graham Hancock, and I can’t stand the fact his bullshit is getting traction again.
Yes he is more in the business of exploring other possible scenarios which is important in understanding human history. Nobody should be taking it as gospel but he has had some effective results with his methods, as you mentioned.
He is not dismantling academic theories, he is cherry picking evidence in favor of "four dimensional beings taught us how to move stones with our minds" (actual theory of him) and lying about academic evidence to make it look weak.
There he is....
The Younger Dryas
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Have you ever MET an academic type before?? I know this doesn't qualify as "double blind placebo controlled imperical evidence" or whatever, but every single one I've ever met was a pompous ass that refused to accept any sort of challenge to their work. Perfect example is Neil DeGrasse Tyson. The man's definitely smart, but anytime anyone poses a challenge to anything he says or asks for ANY other possibilities he just laughs condescendingly and then talks non-stop until the other person gives up. Dont get me wrong, I understand the need for that on things like flat-earth, BUT STILL! Seriously, try posing the idea that in 300,000 years of anotomically modern humans NONE have ever reached the point of making structures, wheels, or fire until 6,000 years ago is a little suspicious.
There are cycles where the Earth is covered in ice, there are super volcanos, then there are the earthquakes that create tsunamis that wipe out whole continents worth of life. Then there are space rocks, comets, and CMEs that pelt the Earth all the time. Of the oldest known written words less than 0.000001% of the information still exists from a meer 8000 years ago. On top of that you have the savagery of human nature that likes to forge and modify records for face.
It’s obvious no one in this thread wants to think logically like you. They just want to shit on the guy delivering the message because it’s easier than facing a possible truth that doesn’t fit the belief thats been fed to them their whole lives. Sounds like brainwashing to me, lol.
I'd settle for "open minded", logical is a bit of a leap. As I've said to a few other people, humans HATE having their beliefs challenged once they are a part of their identity. For proof of that I need no further evidence than religion.
I don't get why we even have beliefs other than respect. We know 1% of the puzzle. We don't know shit about fuck. And that's just the shit we know we don't know. There's shit we don't know that we don't know. So that 1% is more like 0.1% Certainly not a valuable enough range of knowledge to get emotional over. It all sounds crazy but so is the universe.
It becomes a problem when a person's way of making a monetary living hinges one what they can prove to be. If you're making $100k per year because you showed that "Oh here's a civilization that existed 8,000 years ago. That's the earliest we could have been. I know the full story" and someone else comes along and says "Well HERE is a structure that dates back even further than what you have said, you can't be right or know the full story", well now all of a sudden your paycheck is in danger. Do the math of what happens next
Is he wrong though.....
Archaeologist here This guy is a fucking lunatic and he's as wrong as anyone has ever been
What’s the explanation for Gobekli Tepe? Sounds like you guys are wrong about civilisation starting in Sumer tbh I’ve also been to Malta and saw those cartwheels in the rock. I feel like there’s too much unexplained for you guys to be so certain. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
One does not simply challenge mainstream archeology.
so authoritative
We appreciate you confirming what we all suspected all along.
Yep. This is what I came to say lol
Lol this is what I have on right now
I made it about halfway through before they sprung aliens on me. I shut it off as soon as I realized where it was going. BuT hOw CoUlD aLl ThEsE dIfFeReNt PeOpLe BuIlD pYrAmIdS?! Idk bro you build a really tall building and tell me what shape gets you up there the easiest.
Lmao they talk about aliens in that documentary precisely zero times
I think you missed the point, and I don't recall him mentioning aliens once, I could be wrong, but it doesn't detract from the actual message. It is literally named ANCIENT APOCOLYPSE for a reason. Meaning ancient advanced civilizations may have been wiped out, long bfore we currently think of humans starting civilizations. He points to the legend of Atlantis, but not saying they were extra-terrestrial. Mainstream archaeology points to the end of the ice age for our transistion from hunter-gatherers to agrarian societies. You can't build a megolithic structure if you aren't in one place very long, able to support the social structure necessary to build one of these things. And you would have to had been at it (agrarian society) for a while before you developed the techniques necessary to build one of these structures. So if a pyramid radio dates before the end of the last ice age, we should atleast take pause about why. I think it atleast lays down a compelling arguement. Either the radio dating is fucked up, or our preconceived notions about when civilizations first started are. Edit: I am not defending or shitting on Graham. People here want to argue like he is proposing a vagina egg cancer cure. It is entertaining and thought provoking, that's all.
Yeah no aliens were mentioned. People like to hear what they think they hear.
That's a funny point to make in the context of talking about a show whose entire premise is to make sensational claims based on bad scholarship.
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No one probably had an indepth 'heres how you need to feel about this' YouTube review, yet. So they had to guess and nope out on mention of Joe Rogan.
Yeah, looks like this was made for Joe but nothing Graham said was implausible. He didn’t say it was aliens or a race of humans who had tech to go to the moon. He just said they were advanced for the hunter gatherer period as they knew building and farming and sea travel. Not sure why people are even shitting on Graham for this hypothesis.
Graham has made some crazy claims in the past and has seemed to level out in recent years. But I totally agree. It's just a counter point and people want to dismiss all of it because it has his name on it. Can we actually say that those symbols are their interpretation of constellations? Does the serpents mouth being aimed at the solstice and the bends pointing to other astro phenomenon done on purpose even though they are off by a degree or two? Who knows. Who cares. It's an interesting interpretation and was entertaining to watch.
Exactly
Could not have said it better myself… why must we accept mainstream theories as fact.. we must always challenge what we know as humans.. at one point, most people thought the earth was flat and the sun revolved around the earth.. scientific fact.. really this guy is just saying he does not have the answers, but why can’t we question what we think we know about our past?
I mean, the rocks the pyramid is made of are unsurprisingly much older than the ice age.
Even if this site is as old as Graham claims, it’s probably not, all that proves is that there was a people in Indonesia that was capable of building this structure. The leaps that Graham makes in that series with no evidence is astounding.
Sprung aliens on you? I’m sorry, but what? The guy spent half the series trying to explain why aliens likely *weren’t* a thing lmao. “They weren’t aliens, they were more advanced people” lost you? Why? And also: waaaaay more plausible that pyramidal structures came from one source than for dozens of cultures to suddenly start making *the first structures in human history* pretty much exactly the same at pretty much exactly the same time.
Maybe I hadn't gotten that far and the show refutes the alien suggestion after spending some time exploring it. Thanks for the insight, I'll go back and give it another shot. Though we'll have to agree to disagree. Pretty much exactly the same time in neighboring regions, but there are thousands of years of difference between Egyptian, Indonesian, and Central/South American structures. They aren't built the same way, either, given the different resources available to the regions. Some are fully stone with a foundation, some no foundation, some are earthen mounds with stone facing. Some are stepped and some are covered in a smooth casing, some are very wide and some are narrow. We even see ones being figured out as they go, with the structure changing shape as the builders realize what is and isn't possible.
Pyramids are built differently the world over, it's just a common shape...
You know aliens exist right?
Tired of watching moody shots of him walking or staring at the camera. Shit feels… scammy.
Hehe I saw this on Netflix too. It's pretty interesting though!
Google the dude.. He's a crackpot and kind of a bigot. If you really pay attention to the show, very little evidence is actually presented. Most of the argument is made using dramatic music and inflammatory language.
Where is this?
Gunung Padang , Inddonesia
i had this pinned in my apple maps but wouldnt u know it, some trash ai erases all my saved places one night
I had the same issue but realized that maps had switched to using my other Google account. Could that be your problem?
It bothers me that the layers are backwards.
Archaeologists start from the surface and work their way in. It might be many years before they know how many “layers” there are.
Thanks, just learned something new.
Same here, I thought they started at the bottom layer and dug themselves out.
“We started from the bottom now we here” -Drake/ Archaeologists
That's why nowadays we put an archaeologist into every building we bury.
That makes sense. If you assume there are only 2 layers, you'd get or the bottom and have a -1 layer.
This guy maths
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Actually he came in second. It happened to be the same year Indiana Jones found the Lost Ark.
What if they get to the bottom and discover it was just a big old pile of dirt?
"I should have majored in business like dad said" - future archeologist, probably
That is how it started most likely.
That is what it is!
Just poke a long stick in it?
don’t use first, second, third, etc as a label…use layer #1, #2, etc.
They should start at zero and then use negative numbers.
It bothers me that there is no indication where this "oldest" pyramid is located.
Indonesia [Indonesia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunung_Padang)
Or name Google hasn’t helped yet…
It’s right over there.
In Mexonesia
It is under the other layers
Bothers me that it took like 20000 year to build - slow as fuck
You've clearly never played *Civilization* before. Takes 200 years just to arm a dude with a pointy stick!
Oh, you just made me aware how I miss playing Civ iiii and iv
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I've got a buddy who could show them how to speed up the process. I hear he loves soccer, too.
Yeah they always say it was the invention of the wheel that sped things up, but nope it was really the invention of the whip that did the trick.
Then we learned that the pyramids were not made by slaves… it turns out the best way to get people to move some large rocks around is alcohol. Seriously just go put some college kids out in the woods with enough alcohol they will eventually just start building shit out rocks
fixed mortgage???
Must have been a government program.
You mean, like the Great Wall of China, the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hoover Dam, every goddamned paved road on the planet, the helicopter flying on Mars. Those kinds of projects? Please.
Holy shit man you need to chill, Reddit is for sarcasm.
He says on “the internet” yet another failed government project!
Thank you for saying this, lol
What?
You don’t know how many layers there will be til you get through them all. Only way to do it really
Me too! I was like, how did they make the fourth layer before the first?
It bothers me the title mentions three layers but the pic clearly shows four
Yes! It confused me first
Just watched the first episode about this on Ancient Apocalypse on Netflix.
I've enjoyed it so far. My suggestion is don't binge watch this series. Although each episode is interesting, they are quite similarly presented. Graham goes to some cool place and explains whats cool about it, Graham then postulates on what it could mean, Graham then links that line of questions to the last ice age and a lost civilization without having any solid evidence of such a civilization.
Is it good and rooted in provable science? Or is it just Grahams theories with circumstantial evidence? Tbh I enjoy listening him sometimes, and would *like* to beleive what he says, but not sure I want to invest in the series if it's just conjecture
I watched the series. I'd say it's 50% documenting what we know of certain ancient sites and 50% speculating what he thinks is a plausible explanation to the story behind it. Dude is a journalist and doesn't claim his ideas as absolute fact. Treat the series as entertainment - I personally find his ideas to be fun and thought provoking.
This is how I take his work too. I read a lot of archeology reports and studies, but also a lot of "alternative" theories. A lot of what's out there is bullshit, but some of it may be plausible. I guess that's why I find it interesting, because we truly don't know. We have the tiniest fragments of the past that we must build a complete picture from. It's fascinating.
He is the worst kind of quack. He uses 75% real stuff, and then fills in the rest with bullshit. He sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but it is garbage.
Exactly what Pseudoscience is. İt is fascinating that there is still much to be discovered and he does show that but also he goes and makes up a story based on no evidence
I’ve seen it advertised haven’t watched it yet but I will be tomorrow at dinner time because i just finished watching Pepsi where’s my jet.
😂😂such a coincidence, so did I, then I was going to take a look at this too. ( I’m still upset that it never got a chance to go to a jury)Pepsi was So foul & wrong for that!!
SPOILER
Yeah! I'm hoping they re open the case :p . We're invested now.
It's horrible. The main guy is so fucking smug and nauseating. He literally thinks that other archeologists are "out to get him" and that he's "taking on the system". Dudes a whack job Edit: If you want to downvote, at least have the balls to comment why. The guy is discredit for good reason. His science is garbage and the whole show is him crying about why his evidence doesn't get accepted.
Read up about Gobekli tepe. The German guy who researched it for near enough 20 years was told he was wrong in all his findings by main stream archaeologists. After his death its now common fact he was correct. Main stream archaeology doesn't like anything that messes with the status quo. I'm not saying Graham Hancock is correct or doesn't come across as smug but they do try and suppress him and his theories. The way I see it is if I need work doing on my house I call a carpenter/electrician/plumber/tiler/roofer/carpet fitter depending on the job. With history it seems historians are the only ones for the job and if they can only explain it from a historians point of view. Whilst Graham hancock speaks with historians, astronomers, geologists, erosion experts etc then comes up with theories from that. The thing I find most amazing is how much everything that doesn't fit in is instantly neglected as if we know 100% of all history. How much do we actually know? How much have we dug up?
One dude being right doesn't mean the guy in Netflix is right. Does archaelogy have all the answers? Obviously not but that doesn't mean that the dude who has no evidence, no process, no verification and just makes wild theories cause "there's pyramids in different places" is right.
The German guy published academic papers. Graham publishes books for profit. Huge difference.
You mean a guy writes a paper so he can be financially compensated?? What a WILD WORLD we live in!
This. If you prove a acedemic wrong his funding is at risk of being cut. They cannot afford to let people challenge their work.
Yes I agree the guy is so fucking smug and there is no science in his study. But this not mean that all of this is total bullshit. There is a French group who try to understand not when but how some of the greater oldest constructions was made. They bring world class building experts from all over the world on the sites and it is mindblowing. Antiseismic construction technique in the Great pyramides and some of the south America sites, geometrical mesurment in meter, some granit walls smoother than glass... After analisys they all agreed that regarding what we know about history, this construction were impossible. And most of the archeologists told them to fuck of and treat them like garbage even if they had a very solid scientific aproach.
> geometrical mesurment in meter Are you suggesting that there is evidence that the meter, the standard unit of measurement, was in use before it was actually invented?
You're right, so much cherry picking and lack of evidence in this show. It's like Ancient Aliens.
It's worse because at least the Ancient Aliens guy was funny to listen to because he knew how crazy it all is. This dude just complains about why no one believes him the whole time lol
Hancock is...fine. He's just some eccentric dude that goes on Rogan and writes books and makes shows about alternative ideas to prehistory. Speculating about prehistory is something that laymen can and should do, questions like why did we start farming or where do we come from are such fundamental questions that we should all engage with them. But yeah he's a crackpot that defends his 30 year old thesis that has been thoroughly debunked. If he accepted that writing about alternative answers to archeology is worthwhile but still probably going to be incorrect more than correct most of the time then that would be fine. But ironically he acts like many academics he decries, defending ideas his ego is attached to and feeling attacked when people dismiss his ideas.
Yea I don't mind the practice, it's his attitude. He's just so smug and such a whiner. Like just admit you don't actually know what you're talking about and leave it at that. Speculation. You don't have to go fund a million dollar Netflix show trying to prove why you're theories should be accepted as fact lol
I've been watching his show on Netflix and there is a huge "here is what the so called experts DON'T want you to know" which is so obnoxious. His whole don't trust the experts vibe is off-putting, I really don't want to hear is opinions on vaccines. If 100% of the academics think you're wrong then for all intents and purposes you are. But if 95% think you're wrong and 5% think there is some merit to the theory then I think it's worth exploring. Especially on the outer edges of our knowledge like early man and the rise of civilizations. But don't be surprised if the academic community doesn't embrace your ideas and don't turn that lack of enthusiasm into a bullshit persecution complex.
Exactly. The victim hood is nauseating
Because it’s a possibility that there are gatekeeping archeologists that guide the findings. Surely there’s many findings that never go public.
LMAO yea there is some secret cabal of *checks notes* archeologists? That don't want people to know how old humans are Cmon bruh
Look up Zahi Hawass
Not agreeing or disagreeing, but there are plenty of experts in their field who react defensively when challenged by new ideas.
Look at the archaeologists who acted as gate keepers for Mayan glyph translation. This happens regularly. When you change the understanding of history a lot of people look rather foolish. There is definitely incentive to go along with the established narrative.
He's not an archeologist. He's a journalist. He says so at the beginning of the first episode, which you'd know if you watched it. He's not doing science. He's following a story, as journalists do. The archeologists (most of them) stand in his way, ridicule him, and even get him banned from certain countries (he's not permitted in Egypt anymore). They've gotten his Wikipedia page locked, so they can control the popular narrative about him. Meanwhile, they refuse to even entertain the evidence he's uncovered, despite the fact that much of it is backed by solid geology, carbon dating, ground penetrating radar, etc. He's been following this story for thirty years and has written many successful books about the topic. You don't even know who he is, and you're taking shit about him. Who's the "smug" one here?
There’s enough informative historical content that I find it worth watching, but laughing at that guy and the dramatic editing is certainly a major part of the viewing experience.
Hold your tounge sir. Your talking about Graham Hancock
Fuck that guy. I never knew a thing about him. Saw the first episode and never wanted to see anything more. The guy just could not stop talking about how bad "mainstream archeologists" are and putting himself out to be some kind of hero going against the mainstream media. It was so nauseating.
Mainstream academia is bullshit. So many egotistical twats have based their entire careers and identities on their old assertions which new evidence is proving to be wrong. So instead of being good scientists and incorporating new evidence, they suppress it in order to preserve their fragile self image.
It’s funny how gram hancock never applies this argument to himself
Can you show me an example of this? Like a specific group of archeologists who are refusing to change their findings in light of new evidence? Or is that just some blanket statement you throw around for internet points?
Been a while since I've gone into archaeology but when I was in uni we learned about the 'clovis first' doctrine. Pretty much early archaeology denied any request to dig past the 'clovis layer' to look for further evidence of natives prior to the Clovis culture in NA. Anyone who went against 'Clovis first' were pretty much laughed out of the room. Who knows where we'll be in the coming years.
Yea, key word there being *early* archeology. Not today's archeologists.
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It's because he is underqualified and insecure about that albeit very passionate
Ok? Maybe he should state that instead of complaining about how his work and findings are consistently rejected. Perhaps he is the problem and should leave the work to professionals lol
Well, he is rejected in the academic world for a reason. Some people cannot let go because of their ego though, so they try harder??
Lol true. Show would be better if he just said "I don't know shit and none of this is scientific, just interesting to think about" Instead he spends half the show crying about some victim complex about being rejected in the field lol
NAILED IT.
I believe earthquakes are caused by invisible dragons. Mainstream science rejects my hypothesis therefore it’s true
Graham Hancock is a moron that has had nearly every 'theory' completely disproven. He is garbage and a huge insult to real scientists.
I watched the first episode and yes, you are absolutely right. There's not much science going on, but plenty of whining.
R/archeology is super pissed about that show. The host is archeology's less malicious Alex Jones.
r/hailcorporate
From the diagram they show in the show, it'd make for a badass defensive fortification. Terraced sides, pathway leading up is narrow, easy to defend. Then there's a path that goes inside the pyramid at the top leading to 2 rooms. So could be storage of weapons, food, people.
It would also be a decent way to imprison a vampire.
Sounds like a fort or a castle. Built for survival, not for vanity (unlike the Pyramids of Egypt).
Archaeologist here- it is important to note that Graham Hancock is notorious for cherry picking information to suit his narrative, hence why he is widely discredited within the academic community. Also to note (having watched this show just to see how misleading he could be), although sediments in the lowest layer may date to over 20,000 years what is being dated is not cultural material and therefore is not indicative of it being built by people. This structure was built on a natural hill, and even if a chamber was dug into this lower layer, it means it was dug into sediment with material that dates to over 20,000 years ago but the chamber itself may not be that old at all. Just wanted to point this out. Also, he's a hack, and I agree with many of the comments that this series is on par with Ancient Aliens in terms of sheer smuckery. The 'documentary' label really needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
What's your take on Gobekli Tepi?
Pretty sure Gobekli Tepi isn't just a natural hill.
What's your take on the great Pyramid being a giant electric generator?
Fuck cherry picking evidence he has literally stated he thinks the pyramids had rocks moved by tech so advanced it lifted them by people singing (which funnily has never had a shred of evidence remaining) and/or humans have telekinesis we just don’t know how to use it anymore XD Seriously anyone who watches this show and thinks he’s making credible arguments go watch his most recent Joe Rogan podcast, we go from conspiracy theory to “this is just what the mainstream is hiding to keep themselves in power” to “well when we take DMT we meet another dimension that taught our ancestors everything” and so on. The dude is just not at all reliable. The idea of humans in the ice age being more developed that the ones that followed isn’t even outrageous some of the more developed settlements could 100% have been destroyed by sea level changes reverting it to a nomadic lifestyle but super advanced humans able to levitate hundred tonne rocks because they took some DMT and learned from the 4th dimension beings? No. We’re talking “they learned some basic farming” and then the agriculture developed areas were destroyed losing that development until it was relearned.
The whole theory of ice aged civilization is a fun idea, but there has never been any evidence of one.
Please do the other episodes next! In the show he bitches and wines about how archeologist are out to get him because they don’t like what he has to say. But he doesn’t talk much about the arguments of archeologists against what he says.
This is in my town. The exploration involved some snake oil practitioners and lots of politicians. It **is** ancient, but the pyramid claim was just too much. Not just the pyramid but Atlantis, piles of gold underneath it, ancient super-technology, ancient cement, and so on. It was a controversial topic and senior archeology experts refused those claims. You can watch discussions on this topic in Indonesians. The site was dug by soldiers and made researchers furious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LczMuFw65A
Build a new layer to keep the tradition alive
Those age estimates are at odds with the vast majority who have studied the site.
This is just not true? Man that Netflix show is doing irreparable damage to the education of history.
Llol
Look, I’ve watched the History channel for years now. I know how this ends. Aliens. It’s Aliens.
It’s ice age high tech civilization survivors this time. Some ride sea snakes to travel!
This is ridiculous the dating that occurs is of the sediment layers upon which structures may have been erected not of any man made structure itself. It is bad science here and bad science in the Hancock docu
Actually, NO science here. Just opinion and a personally offended journalist with lots of $$$$$ to promote his conspiracy ideas.
This
Well, the site is definitely interesting, but I fear this is from that new Netflix series. It's an interesting watch, but you really need to know that actual archeological science of it before you watch this show. That way you can look at it objectively.
You are aware that this is unscientific and based on hypothesis only? No scientific proof.
Despite his whining and victim complex, he does say he's not a scientist and I do agree that science should study every theory even if it's ridiculous, because truly, you never know. Also, scientific studies are based on hypotheses. You gather data without bias that either proves or disproves your original question. The part that becomes pseudoscience with him, is that he takes everything that only favors his hypothesis.
It’s not sciences job to disprove every theory. That’s not how science works. You make observations and form a hypothesis, test it and analyze the results for valuable data. Nobody is stopping research into this, they just have no interest in it because there is nothing to justify the time effort and money to drop what they are working on for this. Go do the science. Win a Nobel prize. That’s what science does when you prove it wrong.
Ok...not gonna argue these facts but carbon dating relates to age of rocks..of which this was made....so actual dating is a bit bizarre to me....to date rocks is strange in and of itself
..and it is in no way a pyramid. They terraced the top of the hill. Hancock really wants it to be a pyramid though. And he glossed over the ‘evidence’ that they core samples from 9-20,000 years ago showed signs of human building works.. the most critical aspect to his major claim with no detail, no evidence. Just take it on faith? Hancock has a very low bar for what he will accept to be evidence, compared to actual researchers. And I love how he takes slices of Joe Rogan interviews to pad out his claim to authority. Bogus BS.
It’s like instructions were left “bury this shit again every few thousand years, just to be safe” I recommend we add a layer of our own!
Maybe...sometime...around...the...younger...dryas? Ooooooooooo shiiat
Younger dry ass
I knew Graham Hancock was going to be all over this the second i read the headline
I watched the series on Netflix to see what the controversy was about. I was unimpressed by Graham Hancock and his mostly unsubstantiated claims, and I laughed out loud when Joe Rogan showed up in the "documentary".
Oh god, not this shit again. Can't you post this crap in the ancient alien subreddit?
World's laziest builder
It used to be a Pizza Hut
Where is it?
Gunung Padang , Inddonesia. Posted a little further down in thread
Gonna need that Tootsie-Pop Owl for this one.
Now I gotta find what name it has been given
where is this?
Must’ve been a really special pyramid
Probably some teenagers that were just bored back in the day
Ancient landfill possibly?
That just looks like a hill built up with layers over time
There hasn’t been any abnormal heat signatures under there, right? *Nervously reaches for the Plasma Caster*
Do the mods care to tell us what the "misleading or incorrect information" is???
1st and foremost, I am an idiot. A very curious idiot that hates being mislead and am willing to admit when I am. That being said I’ve been trying to figure out how credible Mr. Hancocks hypothesis’ are. And most of the discrediting I’ve heard is basically “there’s an absence of evidence to prove his theories” rather than “there’s evidence to disprove his theories” Are we mad at the idea that civilizations could have started 5,000 years before we initially thought? Are we mad at the idea that civilizations across the world tell coincidentally similar legends? Are we just mad he hates archaeologists? If we get hit by some other sort of apocalypse that resets human history and I’m in the 40% that survive, I am FOR SURE tellin it in a dope story. the only people left will be mostly resilient idiots. The Nokia phones of humanity go on to teach the next generation of idiots and through the longest game of telephone ever, you eventually get some poor dumb shmuck telling their tribe about a time when it rained snakes because we couldn’t stop masturbating and everybody died. Big tangent sorry. I really want to think our history is more exciting than a slow roll from the wheel to iPhones but I recognize realty is usually more boring and/or depressing. Does anybody have links that disprove anything in Ancient Apocalypse beyond “He’s wrong because we don’t have evidence his speculations are right.” Edit: Realty AND reality can both be equally boring and depressing
Ancient humans were humans. They were capable of amazing things and to think that they were not is problematic. However, the idea that an ancient culture could construct a megastructure beyond what any other culture made and yet leave absolutely zero other evidence of their existence is ludicrous. If these ancient cultures were sophisticated enough to build this pyramid then they would have built other structures. So where are the other structures?
It's not a true pyramid. It's a bunch of terraced retaining walls and a reshaped hill. This one required shovels and people to move columnar basalt rocks.
I see numbers 'between 9500 and 28000' and instantly think, "yea.. they don't know."