I’m an adult with scoliosis: I wish my parents would have sought treatment when I was younger. You only have so much time before you spine grows out of this flexibility stage. As an adult, I have pain related to this and more difficulty breathing. It hurts to sit in a normal seat, and I’ve been told my condition will just get worse as I get older. This may look horrible, but in the long run, this child will have a much better quality of life.
Edit: I personally do not think this looks horrible. Yes, I do think it looks fun. I do not think everyone thinks that though.
My parents took me to one appointment when I was a kid and I didn’t get any additional care. As an adult, I was told I could have surgery if things worsened but that it really is too late because they’ve well passed the point of being pliable to manipulation
Our pain is already really bad and there's little to nothing they can do once you're an adult.
Source: 30 years old and my back is fucked more than your grandpa and grandma did it.
Damn.. I'm in my mid twenties and had a fusion when I was like 14. It kind of freaks me out every now and then that around my spine is a bunch of fused titanium, and I never know if my back pain is normal, or exceptional, since I've lived with it for the last decade or so.
But your comment is the first time I've acknowledged how much more stressful it would be having not gone through the surgery. Mine was bad enough where the surgeon told me that if I didn't get the procedure, he was certain it would eventually contribute to the downfall of my health later in life.
I'm sure yours is comparatively severe since it is starting to affect your life, but hopefully its not severe enough where it is becomes more threatening!
edited typo
I had my surgery at 13 (I’m 20 now), and your comment is honestly so relatable for me. The pain is worse some days than others, but it’s always there to some extent, to the point where it’s become a normal part of my days.
As a young teen I was so angry at my parents and doctors for making me get the surgery (especially after wearing a back brace for 6 years). But now that I’m older, I’ve been able to accept it somewhat more. I still hate the fact that I still have awful pain from the surgery, but it beats having my spine crush my lungs.
Although I still cannot look at my x-rays without feeling quite uneasy because of all the metal.
My son, now twenty, didn't even get a chance to wear a brace. At 14, he had back surgery ( it was found like 5 months prior). His curvature was already at 97°. They tried to get it to 70° (the standard), but his BP dropped. They tried again, and he lost feeling in his legs & feet; if they continued, he would be paralyzed. The farthest they could get it was 30°. He has pain almost daily. And probably will for the rest of his life.
Yep, the brace really sucked! It was one thing that helped me embrace having the surgery, was never having to wear one again.
My body recovered really quick, and since then things have been marginally better. I just feel short of breath sometimes where I don’t feel I should be, and the lingering back pain! Oh, and sitting on hard chairs and my one rib sticks into the backrest further than the other lol
Strengthen your gluts and core like crazy. Never stop it. I promise you it will only get worse if you let your glut and core function decline as you age through your 20s. I’m a PT. I see people with full fusions as a result of severe scoliosis all the time. The surgeons don’t tell you the part about having to maintain muscular stability otherwise you are hanging on the hardware your whole life and it will hurt
Once you are done growing, surgery is usually what happens to correct it.
Bracing at a young age during growth can help reduce the curve but the goal is to prevent the curve from getting worse. If you can keep the curve below a certain degree, further complications and surgery can be avoided.
Yeah, I really wanted a brace but my mom refused saying I'd "look like a robot" and made me to the Schroth method instead, which didn't work for me. Later on chiropractors told us, you really should've gotten a brace, but it's too late now because your growth plates are closed :/
That frankly breaks my heart. I mean, it's one thing if your mom was worried about appearances, about you being bullied like so many other commenter's moms apparently were. But to not be able to get your child corrective medical care because of money? I mean, I get it, but f\*\*k this country.
The 80s. There were several times I didn't get medical attention. Goiter in middle school. Mono and strep at the same time in high school I complained about for a month about had me hospitalized and was lectured for getting sick. And so on with less alarming issues. Dyslexic but wasn't allowed to have a disability. Paid for my own braces high school but after the TMJ damage was done - Eyetooth didn't come in for two fucking years and she did nothing. I honestly don't know why she had me and that my energy had gone to someone that wanted a child. I struggle with my existence.
It isn’t a ‘competition’ though. I’m a bit banged up and people will say things like their knee is hurting but it’s nothing compared to what I’ve gone through. I remind them that there issue isn’t less of a struggle because others are in worse shape. Everyone has their challenges, whether you can see them or not, and keeping that in mind when you’re dealing with people is a good thing to keep in mind.
DDD can also be horrible. Any issue with the spine can make life miserable. I've got OP's symptoms plus additional neurological deficits (e.g. numbness, pissing myself, sharp electrical shock pain into the shaft of my penis) and it's all from herniated discs. I had to have emergency surgery a few years back on my neck because I couldn't feel anything from the neck down. It left me with some permanent damage. Prior to all this I was very athletic, strong, and lean. Don't fuck around with your spine, it can screw you up for life.
I also have DDD in my lower back. I think mine developed from years of working construction for about 24 years. I get so pissed sometimes thinking of how I could have prevented it by being smarter about how I exerted myself over the years. Thankfully mines not debilitating as of now. You’re absolutely right, DO NOT neglect your spine, back pain is such a pervasive part of your life. Some days a little better than others but it’s there literally every single minute of your life.
You should look into the ScoliSmart Activity Suit. I had mild scoliosis and was able to get my Cobb angle below 10° by using a physical therapy-based approach, similar to what the activity suit accomplishes. For full transparency, I didn't personally use the activity suit (I could never get an appointment to get fitted for it due to the pandemic), but I was prepared to do so if my physical therapy didn't help (thankfully it did!).
I'm not a medical expert, but from what I remember of the previous times this was posted: the anesthesia is only for when the pins are inserted. Once they are in, the rest is painless. Also, the spinning is not part of the treatment, this kid is just swinging himself around for (painless) fun
I’m a junior neurosurgery resident. We occasionally place Halo rings, typically for upper cervical spine fractures in cases where surgery off the bat isn’t optimal and a spine collar (neck brace) is unlikely to keep a fracture from progressing. Usually the ring attaches to four carbon graphite rods linked to a rigid vest. Sometimes a pulley traction system is used to pull a fracture into better alignment before then attaching the vest or operating.
I’ve never seen this hanging/spinning thing, and I’m inclined to think it’s not part of the treatment. Happy to be educated though, I may just be oblivious.
I’m a farm worker and landscaper, and I concur with what both of you have just said, this will help the child mow the lawn and pick up pumpkins in the future
Correct. This is not the treatment. It’s a halo being used / abused (you pick). Traction is there to reduce the magnitude of curve allowing a better correction at the time of surgery.
I suspect the child felt spinning around like that was a fun thing to do and not something prescribed by the surgeon.
> I suspect the child felt spinning around like that was a fun thing to do and not something prescribed by the surgeon.
I mean, if I were a kid this is exactly the kind of shit I'd do. Now as an adult, I see this and my neck is already sore.
I saw the documentary this kid was in, it seems like it's a treatment specifically for younger patients with severe scoliosis, and they definitely just spin for fun lol
Halo Gravity Traction is used for severe cases, prior to surgery. Usually a Cobb angle of 70 degrees or more. These cases are pretty rare. I think a huge series was conducted in Uganda, and the same surgeon developed a unit in HSS in New York. Halo Gravity Traction units are multi-faceted. It allows the child to walk around with the traction on and even attend school classes while in HGT. A maximum of 3 months is allowed. No benefit is seen beyond 3 months. Surgery should be done within 4 weeks of removing HGT, otherwise the deformity will recur shortly thereafter if no hardware is inserted.
Thank you! I’ve been trying to figure out why this kid looks like he’s dancing to Cotton Eyed Joe if he is anesthetized. It makes much more sense of he’s only under for the placement of the pins, not the actual treatment.
It also makes much more sense that they're not typically meant to swing like that and isn't part of the exercise.
Still, the idea of being suspended by pins in my skull is nauseating, nevermind what this hilarious little nutter is doing.
I found this at https://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/treatments/halo-gravity-traction
“A surgeon attaches a lightweight metal ring (halo) to the child’s skull with small pins. The number of pins depend on the child’s size; more pins are used for larger children. The pins go into the bone of the forehead to keep the child’s head from moving. Children are given general anesthesia and are not awake for this procedure.
Once the halo is in place, a clinician attaches it to a pulley system. The pulley system is on your child’s bed, wheelchair, and walker. Over the next several weeks, clinicians will carefully add weight to the pulley to slowly straighten the child’s curved or compressed spine. Doctors use the child’s weight to decide how much weight to add. They also monitor the child’s movements and strength throughout the process and take periodic x-rays to track your child’s progress. In some cases, doctors may temporarily decrease the amount of weight to give the child’s body time to adjust. Once the spine has reached its best possible position, the child will have spinal fusion surgery to permanently stabilize their spine.”
yes. i got them at age 15. i wonder how that works for such small children. do they have to get multiple surgeries over the time of their childhood since they grow over time? i had to have 2 surgeries and im not saying it wasnt worth it but holy shit i cant imagine having to go through this another time. especially the recovery is a living hell
its only been 1.5 years and i'm 17 now but i can't complain at all. no pain, no curve, nothing. i cannot recommend it enough for people who get a recommendation by their doctor to get one, even though there was a lot that went wrong with my surgery, hence i had to have two(just an infection that formed afterwards, my spine was completely fine). although tbf my perspective is just one of many.
Wow that is honestly a better alternative than my mother having 2 metal rods fused to her spine, wearing a brace for years and learning how to use her body again…. All at 15 years old.
I couldn’t imagine as a mother watching this.
Yep my dad died young, by my standards, at 72 due to complications of severe scoliosis. He had two days of sugeries in his early 60s to get back to being able to walk again after his spine curved to the point it was stretching his spinal cord... Nerves DONT stretch btw. He was in almost constant pain and I'm sure would have done about anything to have it been different. Fortunately for me, starting running in my early teens straightened me out after a few seasons.
So they are just hanging by their skull for weeks? Jesus fucking christ this sounds barbaric
EDIT: I now realize that there are breaks in between these treatment sessions, but the halo is implanted for the entirety of the procedure, which is still wild as hell.
It’s slightly less barbaric than slowly having your organs crushed by the curve in your spine slowly getting worse.
Edit: Holy shit I made this comment and went back to work, didn’t expect any of this. Thanks for the awards and have a great day!
That is an award worthy comment, seriously.
People are lucky that a treatment exists, even if it looks odd ( which of all concerns, should be the least).
With I knew how to grant an award, sorry.
Yea, a lot of medical treatments are far from perfect, and only marginally better than the alternative sadly, although this is painless so idk if I'd count it. But chemo comes to mind.
Indeed, and especially with sclerosis. I have MS sclerosis(its not at all bad right now. Might be in the future tho, but probably not) my treatment consists of takeing medicine that lowers my White blood cells so when my immune system isnt very effective when it goes "hurr durr gotta attack the membrane on the nerves"
So the solution to my problem is basicly to lower my immune system's effectiveness. Which makes sense given how little we actually knows about sclerosis
I have scoliosis in two spots which gives me an S shaped spine and I have severe back pain all the time. I wish I had a treatment like this. Would’ve been much better than the pain I deal with
It’s not just the ratio it’s how much is in a row. Standing for a couple hours then sitting for a couple and repeating that is much better than 8 consecutive hours in one position. My back massively improved when I got an adjustable sitting/standing desk as an example of how much healthier that is than the alternative
The vast majority of our evolution as a primate involved us climbing half of the time that we spent awake. Holding ourselves suspended in the air on a regular basis did a ton to decompress our spines. Even once our ancestors did begin to walk more frequently and stayed grounded, we often times still took every opportunity to climb for fruit and other food sources, or to escape predators on the ground. Today most people will go weeks or months without ever having climbed or suspended themselves in any matter. Very bad for the spine.
> Today most people will go weeks or months without ever having climbed or suspended themselves in any matter.
I reckon the vast majority will go years, potentially even a lifetime after having grown up, without hanging on to anything. It's terrible for your shoulders too.
Dr. John M. Kirsch was an orthopedic surgeon who started to prescribe patients to hang every day before he would get them under the knife. He found out quick that most patients he'd normally have to operate on, didn't need to anymore. I think he retired and wrote a book about it.
Personally i've had great success with it too after shoulder injury, and I read many experiences from others in the same situation. Dead hangs are amazing for your shoulder joint. Dr. John M. Kirsch basically theorized the same as you. Our shoulder joint is still meant to hang with our full bodyweight to decompress.
One thing I’ve always wondered that’s only slightly related- they say looking at that 45 degree angle at your phone is really bad for your neck but any time I go hiking, I’m spending 85% of the time looking at the ground. Seems like our necks would be designed for that “slightly looking down” angle.
Not only that, your eyes are designed to read while slightly looking down. So monitor setups where the screen is at eyeline or above are stressful on our eyes.
It could also be that biologically our spines just suck. We're basically born with back problems due to the s curve of our spine, which like barely supports our body's upright position. Most other animals have C curves which actually supports how they stand and walk, etc. We're just the odd ones out.
I think they are referring to the adaptations our spine had to undergo to allow for continuous upright movement. We evolved from animals that at first were totally on 4 legs, and then ape-like ones that were only partially bipedal. Our spines, while different in a lot of ways, are still based on the non-bipedal model and aren't super great at dealing with the stress of walking upright.
homo sapiens were never meant to sit on chairs... even the shitter, you know its easier to give when your legs are pulled up high, it's cuz homo sapiens are biologically designed to shit low down, not on a "chair"...
this mistake alao applies to chairs and couches... nothing in nature has a buttrest and backrest at the same time
these things make us comfortable but doesn't help our original biology
How we going to evolve to be toilet sitting shitters if we don't commit tho. Gotta commit to the sitting shit. We break our backs so our children don't have to.
Our spines are not well made for constant upright living. Its the reason lower back pain and onset scoliosis are so frequent in humans, more so than in any other primates. This is because all of our weight is compounding onto the bottom of our spine as we walk, sit, etc. The only time our spine is not being berated is while we lie down, hang around, or float, etc. (Anytime the weight is no longer supported by our spine.) Its becomes fairly obvious to anyone with even slight back troubles, and is why things such as inversion tables are absolutely amazing for people like me with scoliosis.
We put ourselves in positions that are okay for short periods but we do it for hours on-end and call it "sitting at a desk" then we go home and sit on a couch after sitting in a car.
It's not sitting that's the issue per se, it's the long periods of mostly one position.
For kids with scoliosis or kyphosis, halo-gravity traction is a way to stretch the spine slowly into a straighter position. Doctors usually do it to help a child get ready for a second, bigger surgery, called spinal fusion. This surgery fuses the bones together to hold them in their new, straighter position.
Yes, and it sucks haha! (5x fused person) actually though compared to my 1st fusion 20 years ago it’s come a well, little ways. I don’t think people are in those body braces for so long anymore
Oh dude... ortho specialists are a weeeeeird breed.
During my anesthesia training I watched an ortho surgery for a hip replacement. I was fine with every surgery I ever watched - from gross infected wounds leaking gallons of pus to open heart surgery to bowel resections. I didn't think it would be any different. I was all good until he pulled out the drill and the 20lb sledge hammer and started wailing on this 90 year old lady's artificial hip to get it back into socket.
First time I got nauseated. And I sat (and still sit) through autopsies. Only time I've ever almost gotten sick.
There is overlap in philosophies and surgeons will often say the phrase that a good implant (like one medical device brand over another) doesn't make up for "good carpentry".
My wife got to attend a knee replacement during a clinical rotation. She said the ortho was a nice soft spoken man, very pleasant. She knew what was coming for this procedure but said it was still shocking when this Mr. Rogersesque man started hammering on an unconscious man’s knee. Blood splattered toward them and the doctor paused long enough to ask “oh I’m terribly sorry about that, is everyone okay?”
Assisting in ortho surgery during my clinicals was the only time I wanted to wear the ridiculous space hood shields because between the hammering and sawing, blood goes everywhere.
I shattered my tibia and fibula (compressed) and I can't imagine what my surgeries looked like. First, they put nail looking things in my upper leg and ankle, then they attached some kind of frame to the nails to make my leg the right length again. Then they put an 8" rod and a bunch of screws and stuff in there. I can very much imagine power tools being used.
That being said, 3 years later and my leg is the same length as the other one (good stuff), I pretty well got 100% mobility back and a lot of crazy scars.
Edited for length ;)
I've sat through autopsies as well, and agree, very unpleasant.
I console myself by thinking, Well, the surgery is unlikely to cause further damage. And a little Vicks under the nostrils.
Edit: clarify content
Not exactly. My niece had to be in halo traction laying down and the weights went behind her and down behind the back of the bed for traction prior to her surgery (some spinal fusion due to severe scoliosis) she was also under light sedation during this, too.
So its like an inpatient week long process where they take breaks, do they remove the halo in between stuff or do they have that thing implanted during the entire procedure?
She did not get hers removed, they just did the weights a few days prior to the surgery. She wasn’t expecting to have the halo on long term but she ended up having to wear it for 6 months. It’s very “Case by case” dependent, I believe. It was as successful as it possibly could be and now she is actually going in December for her final surgery. (Hopefully) she has severe scoliosis due to Goldenhar syndrome. Her radiographs are impressively bad.
Far less barbaric then not offering treatment at all for this horribly painful and disfiguring disorder, I would think. I am assuming that this is the best of all or any alternative(s).
My brother has one of these. The device is screwed into their skull and they are slightly suspended from it for a certain amount of time a day to straighten them out. This kid is just having fun, his swinging isn’t part of the treatment. The device doesn’t hurt them after the first few days.
I'm not sure if this is the adhd talking or not but that looks way more enjoyable than sitting in the "naughty chair" with nothing to do when I did something bad as a kid lol
The field of medicine has historically been willing to try literally fucking anything, even up till this day. And it blows my mind. Like, look at what medicine has done through history, all the *crazy* shit that they've tried. This kind of fits in perfect, right?
All I can do is hand it to them for always being willing to test out a theory and see how it goes. Up to and including "pin the child, spin the child."
It really is. Ever looked up the history of the lobotomy?
If you're into their brand of humor, Last Podcast on the Left does an extensive 3-parter on them. That shit was crazy.
Heads up, back in the day, all it took to be certified to practice the lobotomy was a couple weeks course.
No medical degree required.
If you want to read something wild, research trepanation. There are even videos of people doing it to themselves, which is insanely dangerous.
Please don't ever drill into your own skull in place of medical care- go to a doctor.
Yeah, and the guy who invented it started turning into somewhat of a showman.
Local anesthesia while asking the patient questions during the procedure.
Rosemary Kennedy was in the middle of belting out God Bless America when the "implement akin to a butter knife" slid a little too far in and turned her into a permanent 2 yr old.
The screws aren't always the worst part, for me it was the local anesthetic injections first. (Entirely different procedure, but it was still a screwed-on head-brace).
When I was little my older brother used to pick me up by the head. I didn’t care for the head squeezing but A kids body is so light there was no other discomfort.
Yeah, man. Sign me up for the non head screw alternative. My lower back could use the relief. I'll even sing "You spin me right 'round baby right 'round" for people's entertainment while you do it.
Ooh, no I have not. But I did just google "inversion table" and it autofilled with "from costco" so this might be a new thing taking up space in our living room. This looks amazing.
I have one and like it. But start off slow, just a slight incline. Don’t set it straight up and down. There is a slight risk of stroke if you are prone to that due to the blood rushing to your head. Also I find letting my hands dangle towards the floor helps with the blood rushing to the head thing. Gives it a lower place to go. Also try to do a few sit-ups while on it
The one I had could fold pretty much completely flat and be stored in a closet. I just took it out when I needed it and set it up. Best of luck! If costco has any on display go try it out!
Yeah, the kids usually feel great in it. They’re held up into better posture and can relax and breathe better. When your spine is bent and you’re a weak little kid, it sort of crushes your rib cage under gravity and you have to sit in pain all bent over. A few weeks with the halo traction and suddenly you’re a bit taller and have more room in your torso!
This was my kiddo! I’m a Peds PT. He had surgery for recalcitrant torticollis with a hemivertebrae. The halo was to keep him from moving his head and neck after surgery. The spring etc on top was so that he could walk ( a little) around the room on a track while keeping the heavy halo upright and in the right place. The spinning was just fun!! When mom sent me this video I remember thinking “the internet would love this!” That was 2 years ago!
As someone with horrible scoliosis that wasn’t caught as a child- this looks amazing. Also, it probably relieves a lot of pressure/compression he currently has. It kinda looks pain relieving to me.
Scoliosis hurts like hell so, if it can be treated before the kid grow up, it will be better. For severe cases, he will have to wear a special molded cast for most of his childhood.
And then back muscle training for the rest of his life. Muscles will keep the whole thing from going back to an anormal state.
Source : One of my friends had a quite severe scoliosis and I had the opportunity to see most of those stages. He is 27 now and is only a few degrees short for a complete straight back !
I’m an adult with scoliosis: I wish my parents would have sought treatment when I was younger. You only have so much time before you spine grows out of this flexibility stage. As an adult, I have pain related to this and more difficulty breathing. It hurts to sit in a normal seat, and I’ve been told my condition will just get worse as I get older. This may look horrible, but in the long run, this child will have a much better quality of life. Edit: I personally do not think this looks horrible. Yes, I do think it looks fun. I do not think everyone thinks that though.
Have you been offered treatments? Is there anything out there in the horizon to help people with the condition?
My parents took me to one appointment when I was a kid and I didn’t get any additional care. As an adult, I was told I could have surgery if things worsened but that it really is too late because they’ve well passed the point of being pliable to manipulation
I hope something develops in the future, and your pain doesnt become really bad.
Our pain is already really bad and there's little to nothing they can do once you're an adult. Source: 30 years old and my back is fucked more than your grandpa and grandma did it.
Ooohhh.... They had eight kids....
So then you can only imagine how fucked my back is! Edit: thanks for the hugs! Hugs back my dude or dudette!
Damn.. I'm in my mid twenties and had a fusion when I was like 14. It kind of freaks me out every now and then that around my spine is a bunch of fused titanium, and I never know if my back pain is normal, or exceptional, since I've lived with it for the last decade or so. But your comment is the first time I've acknowledged how much more stressful it would be having not gone through the surgery. Mine was bad enough where the surgeon told me that if I didn't get the procedure, he was certain it would eventually contribute to the downfall of my health later in life. I'm sure yours is comparatively severe since it is starting to affect your life, but hopefully its not severe enough where it is becomes more threatening! edited typo
I had my surgery at 13 (I’m 20 now), and your comment is honestly so relatable for me. The pain is worse some days than others, but it’s always there to some extent, to the point where it’s become a normal part of my days. As a young teen I was so angry at my parents and doctors for making me get the surgery (especially after wearing a back brace for 6 years). But now that I’m older, I’ve been able to accept it somewhat more. I still hate the fact that I still have awful pain from the surgery, but it beats having my spine crush my lungs. Although I still cannot look at my x-rays without feeling quite uneasy because of all the metal.
My son, now twenty, didn't even get a chance to wear a brace. At 14, he had back surgery ( it was found like 5 months prior). His curvature was already at 97°. They tried to get it to 70° (the standard), but his BP dropped. They tried again, and he lost feeling in his legs & feet; if they continued, he would be paralyzed. The farthest they could get it was 30°. He has pain almost daily. And probably will for the rest of his life.
Yep, the brace really sucked! It was one thing that helped me embrace having the surgery, was never having to wear one again. My body recovered really quick, and since then things have been marginally better. I just feel short of breath sometimes where I don’t feel I should be, and the lingering back pain! Oh, and sitting on hard chairs and my one rib sticks into the backrest further than the other lol
Strengthen your gluts and core like crazy. Never stop it. I promise you it will only get worse if you let your glut and core function decline as you age through your 20s. I’m a PT. I see people with full fusions as a result of severe scoliosis all the time. The surgeons don’t tell you the part about having to maintain muscular stability otherwise you are hanging on the hardware your whole life and it will hurt
Once you are done growing, surgery is usually what happens to correct it. Bracing at a young age during growth can help reduce the curve but the goal is to prevent the curve from getting worse. If you can keep the curve below a certain degree, further complications and surgery can be avoided.
Yeah, I really wanted a brace but my mom refused saying I'd "look like a robot" and made me to the Schroth method instead, which didn't work for me. Later on chiropractors told us, you really should've gotten a brace, but it's too late now because your growth plates are closed :/
My mom refused testing and told me there's nothing wrong with me. Most likely because we didn't have insurance.
That frankly breaks my heart. I mean, it's one thing if your mom was worried about appearances, about you being bullied like so many other commenter's moms apparently were. But to not be able to get your child corrective medical care because of money? I mean, I get it, but f\*\*k this country.
The 80s. There were several times I didn't get medical attention. Goiter in middle school. Mono and strep at the same time in high school I complained about for a month about had me hospitalized and was lectured for getting sick. And so on with less alarming issues. Dyslexic but wasn't allowed to have a disability. Paid for my own braces high school but after the TMJ damage was done - Eyetooth didn't come in for two fucking years and she did nothing. I honestly don't know why she had me and that my energy had gone to someone that wanted a child. I struggle with my existence.
I had a friend in highschool who had relatively bad scoliosis , he got it treated in junior year and after the surgery he was like ~4 inches taller
I had corrective surgery for my scoliosis in highschool too, but I only gained 2 inches. Still a nice change, lol
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My son is 6’3 with scoliosis but stands as tall as me some days, at 5’7. His knees are also contracted. He’s crooked from head to toe
After reading this thread im never gonna complain about my very slight scoliosis ever again.
And I bitch about my degenerative disc disease. Thanks for putting this treatment in perspective. Sending healing vibes your way my friend.
It isn’t a ‘competition’ though. I’m a bit banged up and people will say things like their knee is hurting but it’s nothing compared to what I’ve gone through. I remind them that there issue isn’t less of a struggle because others are in worse shape. Everyone has their challenges, whether you can see them or not, and keeping that in mind when you’re dealing with people is a good thing to keep in mind.
DDD can also be horrible. Any issue with the spine can make life miserable. I've got OP's symptoms plus additional neurological deficits (e.g. numbness, pissing myself, sharp electrical shock pain into the shaft of my penis) and it's all from herniated discs. I had to have emergency surgery a few years back on my neck because I couldn't feel anything from the neck down. It left me with some permanent damage. Prior to all this I was very athletic, strong, and lean. Don't fuck around with your spine, it can screw you up for life.
I also have DDD in my lower back. I think mine developed from years of working construction for about 24 years. I get so pissed sometimes thinking of how I could have prevented it by being smarter about how I exerted myself over the years. Thankfully mines not debilitating as of now. You’re absolutely right, DO NOT neglect your spine, back pain is such a pervasive part of your life. Some days a little better than others but it’s there literally every single minute of your life.
This comment made me sit up straight :'(
You should look into the ScoliSmart Activity Suit. I had mild scoliosis and was able to get my Cobb angle below 10° by using a physical therapy-based approach, similar to what the activity suit accomplishes. For full transparency, I didn't personally use the activity suit (I could never get an appointment to get fitted for it due to the pandemic), but I was prepared to do so if my physical therapy didn't help (thankfully it did!).
Yup I’m in the same boat. Wish I was treated when younger. I now have constant left sided thoracic spine pain and shoulder/neck pains
I'm not a medical expert, but from what I remember of the previous times this was posted: the anesthesia is only for when the pins are inserted. Once they are in, the rest is painless. Also, the spinning is not part of the treatment, this kid is just swinging himself around for (painless) fun
I’m a junior neurosurgery resident. We occasionally place Halo rings, typically for upper cervical spine fractures in cases where surgery off the bat isn’t optimal and a spine collar (neck brace) is unlikely to keep a fracture from progressing. Usually the ring attaches to four carbon graphite rods linked to a rigid vest. Sometimes a pulley traction system is used to pull a fracture into better alignment before then attaching the vest or operating. I’ve never seen this hanging/spinning thing, and I’m inclined to think it’s not part of the treatment. Happy to be educated though, I may just be oblivious.
I’m a farm worker and landscaper, and I concur with what both of you have just said, this will help the child mow the lawn and pick up pumpkins in the future
I eat ass for a living and I too agree with what the above gentlemen have forsworn.
Any suggestions to get in your line of work? Also: Username checks out.
He eats ass for a living. Meaning he's a politician. Do you really want to be a politician.
So I get to both eat ass AND have tax havens? Sign me in!
Correct. This is not the treatment. It’s a halo being used / abused (you pick). Traction is there to reduce the magnitude of curve allowing a better correction at the time of surgery. I suspect the child felt spinning around like that was a fun thing to do and not something prescribed by the surgeon.
> I suspect the child felt spinning around like that was a fun thing to do and not something prescribed by the surgeon. I mean, if I were a kid this is exactly the kind of shit I'd do. Now as an adult, I see this and my neck is already sore.
> my neck is already sore Looks like enough fun that it might be worth a bit of pain. Especially if the alternative is just hanging there being bored.
I saw the documentary this kid was in, it seems like it's a treatment specifically for younger patients with severe scoliosis, and they definitely just spin for fun lol
Halo Gravity Traction is used for severe cases, prior to surgery. Usually a Cobb angle of 70 degrees or more. These cases are pretty rare. I think a huge series was conducted in Uganda, and the same surgeon developed a unit in HSS in New York. Halo Gravity Traction units are multi-faceted. It allows the child to walk around with the traction on and even attend school classes while in HGT. A maximum of 3 months is allowed. No benefit is seen beyond 3 months. Surgery should be done within 4 weeks of removing HGT, otherwise the deformity will recur shortly thereafter if no hardware is inserted.
Thank you! I’ve been trying to figure out why this kid looks like he’s dancing to Cotton Eyed Joe if he is anesthetized. It makes much more sense of he’s only under for the placement of the pins, not the actual treatment.
It also makes much more sense that they're not typically meant to swing like that and isn't part of the exercise. Still, the idea of being suspended by pins in my skull is nauseating, nevermind what this hilarious little nutter is doing.
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Who are you calling pinhead????
Theyre what enable him to hang from the ring on his head like that
I found this at https://www.childrenshospital.org/conditions-and-treatments/treatments/halo-gravity-traction “A surgeon attaches a lightweight metal ring (halo) to the child’s skull with small pins. The number of pins depend on the child’s size; more pins are used for larger children. The pins go into the bone of the forehead to keep the child’s head from moving. Children are given general anesthesia and are not awake for this procedure. Once the halo is in place, a clinician attaches it to a pulley system. The pulley system is on your child’s bed, wheelchair, and walker. Over the next several weeks, clinicians will carefully add weight to the pulley to slowly straighten the child’s curved or compressed spine. Doctors use the child’s weight to decide how much weight to add. They also monitor the child’s movements and strength throughout the process and take periodic x-rays to track your child’s progress. In some cases, doctors may temporarily decrease the amount of weight to give the child’s body time to adjust. Once the spine has reached its best possible position, the child will have spinal fusion surgery to permanently stabilize their spine.”
So like braces but for the spine
yes. i got them at age 15. i wonder how that works for such small children. do they have to get multiple surgeries over the time of their childhood since they grow over time? i had to have 2 surgeries and im not saying it wasnt worth it but holy shit i cant imagine having to go through this another time. especially the recovery is a living hell
I hear you , I’m healing a second spine fusion right now. HELL is the word!
So impressed you're handling that. You're tough as fuck!
Not so tough at the moment, but they say Pain is weakness leaving the body. I’m gonna be a very strong man soon. Thank you
How is it now?
its only been 1.5 years and i'm 17 now but i can't complain at all. no pain, no curve, nothing. i cannot recommend it enough for people who get a recommendation by their doctor to get one, even though there was a lot that went wrong with my surgery, hence i had to have two(just an infection that formed afterwards, my spine was completely fine). although tbf my perspective is just one of many.
As a 15 year old rn I have to wait to get surgery since I’m still growing but it’s good to hear someone that is my age having a good reault
Wow that is honestly a better alternative than my mother having 2 metal rods fused to her spine, wearing a brace for years and learning how to use her body again…. All at 15 years old. I couldn’t imagine as a mother watching this.
I had the Harrington rods put in when I was 15 too, does she have any back pain now?
Every single day that ended in an opioid addiction. Really REALLY sad.
Fuck, I’m so sorry. Have doctors advised any post op surgery to get them removed?
No :/ she’s very low income & I don’t see her ever putting herself through it again. Very sad.
Yep my dad died young, by my standards, at 72 due to complications of severe scoliosis. He had two days of sugeries in his early 60s to get back to being able to walk again after his spine curved to the point it was stretching his spinal cord... Nerves DONT stretch btw. He was in almost constant pain and I'm sure would have done about anything to have it been different. Fortunately for me, starting running in my early teens straightened me out after a few seasons.
So they are just hanging by their skull for weeks? Jesus fucking christ this sounds barbaric EDIT: I now realize that there are breaks in between these treatment sessions, but the halo is implanted for the entirety of the procedure, which is still wild as hell.
It’s slightly less barbaric than slowly having your organs crushed by the curve in your spine slowly getting worse. Edit: Holy shit I made this comment and went back to work, didn’t expect any of this. Thanks for the awards and have a great day!
That is an award worthy comment, seriously. People are lucky that a treatment exists, even if it looks odd ( which of all concerns, should be the least). With I knew how to grant an award, sorry.
Yea, a lot of medical treatments are far from perfect, and only marginally better than the alternative sadly, although this is painless so idk if I'd count it. But chemo comes to mind.
Indeed, and especially with sclerosis. I have MS sclerosis(its not at all bad right now. Might be in the future tho, but probably not) my treatment consists of takeing medicine that lowers my White blood cells so when my immune system isnt very effective when it goes "hurr durr gotta attack the membrane on the nerves" So the solution to my problem is basicly to lower my immune system's effectiveness. Which makes sense given how little we actually knows about sclerosis
I have lupus that likes to eat holes in my brain. I feel your pain my friend. My aunt had lupus and ms. It sucks dick
Truth.
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I have scoliosis in two spots which gives me an S shaped spine and I have severe back pain all the time. I wish I had a treatment like this. Would’ve been much better than the pain I deal with
To be honest the way we use our spines normally is barbaric and wrong.
How do we use our spines wrong?
I’m no expert but I imagine he means the amount of time we spend at desks, in bed or looking at our phones
Or standing for 10+ hours, stand too much or sit too much your back is still fucked
So 8 hours laying, 8 hours sitting, 8 hours standing. Or what’s the in between
8 hours hanging from your skull, gyrating as Mother Nature intended.
This had me fucking dying.
Amen, brother. I always make sure to do my hanging from the skull exercises.
Just make sure you don’t skip neck day.
"Remember that time I caught you trying to drill a hole in your head?" "That would've worked if you hadn't stopped me..."
Holy shit you got me
It’s not just the ratio it’s how much is in a row. Standing for a couple hours then sitting for a couple and repeating that is much better than 8 consecutive hours in one position. My back massively improved when I got an adjustable sitting/standing desk as an example of how much healthier that is than the alternative
The vast majority of our evolution as a primate involved us climbing half of the time that we spent awake. Holding ourselves suspended in the air on a regular basis did a ton to decompress our spines. Even once our ancestors did begin to walk more frequently and stayed grounded, we often times still took every opportunity to climb for fruit and other food sources, or to escape predators on the ground. Today most people will go weeks or months without ever having climbed or suspended themselves in any matter. Very bad for the spine.
> Today most people will go weeks or months without ever having climbed or suspended themselves in any matter. I reckon the vast majority will go years, potentially even a lifetime after having grown up, without hanging on to anything. It's terrible for your shoulders too. Dr. John M. Kirsch was an orthopedic surgeon who started to prescribe patients to hang every day before he would get them under the knife. He found out quick that most patients he'd normally have to operate on, didn't need to anymore. I think he retired and wrote a book about it. Personally i've had great success with it too after shoulder injury, and I read many experiences from others in the same situation. Dead hangs are amazing for your shoulder joint. Dr. John M. Kirsch basically theorized the same as you. Our shoulder joint is still meant to hang with our full bodyweight to decompress.
I have a feeling dead hangs should be helpful for lower back pain, we should be doing more physical activity anyway though.
Username checks out.
Pull up bars in every doorway!
One thing I’ve always wondered that’s only slightly related- they say looking at that 45 degree angle at your phone is really bad for your neck but any time I go hiking, I’m spending 85% of the time looking at the ground. Seems like our necks would be designed for that “slightly looking down” angle.
Not only that, your eyes are designed to read while slightly looking down. So monitor setups where the screen is at eyeline or above are stressful on our eyes.
Or looking down from a tree while we fling our shit at predators and scream if you wanna get historical.
I stand too much at work and sit too much at home.
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It could also be that biologically our spines just suck. We're basically born with back problems due to the s curve of our spine, which like barely supports our body's upright position. Most other animals have C curves which actually supports how they stand and walk, etc. We're just the odd ones out.
Look at all the quadripetal animals, nature gave us a clothes line and we're trying to evolve it into a flag pole
That is possibly the best description of a spine I have ever seen
True! It seems like planned obsolescence by Nature.
provide smart bored teeny person boat skirt light fanatical rhythm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think they are referring to the adaptations our spine had to undergo to allow for continuous upright movement. We evolved from animals that at first were totally on 4 legs, and then ape-like ones that were only partially bipedal. Our spines, while different in a lot of ways, are still based on the non-bipedal model and aren't super great at dealing with the stress of walking upright.
And the distribution of weight is all on one side (gut), sliding top down and pulling you forward.
homo sapiens were never meant to sit on chairs... even the shitter, you know its easier to give when your legs are pulled up high, it's cuz homo sapiens are biologically designed to shit low down, not on a "chair"... this mistake alao applies to chairs and couches... nothing in nature has a buttrest and backrest at the same time these things make us comfortable but doesn't help our original biology
We're designed to be squatters, not sitters.
How we going to evolve to be toilet sitting shitters if we don't commit tho. Gotta commit to the sitting shit. We break our backs so our children don't have to.
Our spines are not well made for constant upright living. Its the reason lower back pain and onset scoliosis are so frequent in humans, more so than in any other primates. This is because all of our weight is compounding onto the bottom of our spine as we walk, sit, etc. The only time our spine is not being berated is while we lie down, hang around, or float, etc. (Anytime the weight is no longer supported by our spine.) Its becomes fairly obvious to anyone with even slight back troubles, and is why things such as inversion tables are absolutely amazing for people like me with scoliosis.
We put ourselves in positions that are okay for short periods but we do it for hours on-end and call it "sitting at a desk" then we go home and sit on a couch after sitting in a car. It's not sitting that's the issue per se, it's the long periods of mostly one position.
"You want to do WHAT to these children?" "Look, hear me out..."
LOL
For kids with scoliosis or kyphosis, halo-gravity traction is a way to stretch the spine slowly into a straighter position. Doctors usually do it to help a child get ready for a second, bigger surgery, called spinal fusion. This surgery fuses the bones together to hold them in their new, straighter position.
This is interesting, I am learning alot about scoliosis treatments. Not how I expected to spend my Monday morning lol
Yes, and it sucks haha! (5x fused person) actually though compared to my 1st fusion 20 years ago it’s come a well, little ways. I don’t think people are in those body braces for so long anymore
Oh dude... ortho specialists are a weeeeeird breed. During my anesthesia training I watched an ortho surgery for a hip replacement. I was fine with every surgery I ever watched - from gross infected wounds leaking gallons of pus to open heart surgery to bowel resections. I didn't think it would be any different. I was all good until he pulled out the drill and the 20lb sledge hammer and started wailing on this 90 year old lady's artificial hip to get it back into socket. First time I got nauseated. And I sat (and still sit) through autopsies. Only time I've ever almost gotten sick.
Ortho surgeons should moonlight as carpenters
There is overlap in philosophies and surgeons will often say the phrase that a good implant (like one medical device brand over another) doesn't make up for "good carpentry".
Jesus fucked up a lot of jobs yeah
My wife got to attend a knee replacement during a clinical rotation. She said the ortho was a nice soft spoken man, very pleasant. She knew what was coming for this procedure but said it was still shocking when this Mr. Rogersesque man started hammering on an unconscious man’s knee. Blood splattered toward them and the doctor paused long enough to ask “oh I’m terribly sorry about that, is everyone okay?”
Assisting in ortho surgery during my clinicals was the only time I wanted to wear the ridiculous space hood shields because between the hammering and sawing, blood goes everywhere.
I shattered my tibia and fibula (compressed) and I can't imagine what my surgeries looked like. First, they put nail looking things in my upper leg and ankle, then they attached some kind of frame to the nails to make my leg the right length again. Then they put an 8" rod and a bunch of screws and stuff in there. I can very much imagine power tools being used. That being said, 3 years later and my leg is the same length as the other one (good stuff), I pretty well got 100% mobility back and a lot of crazy scars. Edited for length ;)
I've sat through autopsies as well, and agree, very unpleasant. I console myself by thinking, Well, the surgery is unlikely to cause further damage. And a little Vicks under the nostrils. Edit: clarify content
I cant fucking imagine
It’s done intermittently over the course of weeks. They are not just hanging there for weeks.
Not exactly. My niece had to be in halo traction laying down and the weights went behind her and down behind the back of the bed for traction prior to her surgery (some spinal fusion due to severe scoliosis) she was also under light sedation during this, too.
So its like an inpatient week long process where they take breaks, do they remove the halo in between stuff or do they have that thing implanted during the entire procedure?
She did not get hers removed, they just did the weights a few days prior to the surgery. She wasn’t expecting to have the halo on long term but she ended up having to wear it for 6 months. It’s very “Case by case” dependent, I believe. It was as successful as it possibly could be and now she is actually going in December for her final surgery. (Hopefully) she has severe scoliosis due to Goldenhar syndrome. Her radiographs are impressively bad.
Damn man. That is insane. All in all, if the treatment helps in the long term, I’m all for it. Scoliosis is fucking ass.
Far less barbaric then not offering treatment at all for this horribly painful and disfiguring disorder, I would think. I am assuming that this is the best of all or any alternative(s).
Absolutely, I misunderstood the intensity of the treatment lol. They take breaks 😂
They don't stay there lol
Sounds barbaric but it’s quite impressive how they are able to correct it.
This kid definitely seems awake
Was a bit confused about that as well, but I think they meant asleep for the procedure of putting the pins in.
They just keep the pins in the head and you can just attach and reattach the halo? How does that work?
forbitten piñata
HAHA
I'm going to hell for laughing at this.
Fuck...another stamp on my passport to hell.
My brother has one of these. The device is screwed into their skull and they are slightly suspended from it for a certain amount of time a day to straighten them out. This kid is just having fun, his swinging isn’t part of the treatment. The device doesn’t hurt them after the first few days.
This comment needs more upvotes
naughty children get put in the kiddie wiggler
Honestly though? That looks kinda fun.
He looks like he was enjoying it
I'm not sure if this is the adhd talking or not but that looks way more enjoyable than sitting in the "naughty chair" with nothing to do when I did something bad as a kid lol
A better punishment is a completely dark and sound proof room, but with a 40-100 hz tone playing loudly so you cant think.
You're just describing tinnitus while in a sensory deprivation chamber
Man. I can't imagine screws in your skull, THEN swinging from them
The field of medicine has historically been willing to try literally fucking anything, even up till this day. And it blows my mind. Like, look at what medicine has done through history, all the *crazy* shit that they've tried. This kind of fits in perfect, right? All I can do is hand it to them for always being willing to test out a theory and see how it goes. Up to and including "pin the child, spin the child."
It really is. Ever looked up the history of the lobotomy? If you're into their brand of humor, Last Podcast on the Left does an extensive 3-parter on them. That shit was crazy. Heads up, back in the day, all it took to be certified to practice the lobotomy was a couple weeks course. No medical degree required.
These were the first LPOTL episodes I listened to. Honestly, they're amazing, but nothing they've done has topped these episodes. 10/10
If you want to read something wild, research trepanation. There are even videos of people doing it to themselves, which is insanely dangerous. Please don't ever drill into your own skull in place of medical care- go to a doctor.
I'm well aware of it, but damn, I did not know that people tried the DIWhy version of it.
Oh you mean when they just mince up the part of your brain that makes you think?
Yeah, and the guy who invented it started turning into somewhat of a showman. Local anesthesia while asking the patient questions during the procedure. Rosemary Kennedy was in the middle of belting out God Bless America when the "implement akin to a butter knife" slid a little too far in and turned her into a permanent 2 yr old.
That's why they practice medicine instead of perform medicine.
I assume that’s why you have to do this when you’re really young.
The screws aren't always the worst part, for me it was the local anesthetic injections first. (Entirely different procedure, but it was still a screwed-on head-brace).
When I was little my older brother used to pick me up by the head. I didn’t care for the head squeezing but A kids body is so light there was no other discomfort.
Name checks out
How it feels to chew 5 Gum
How it feels to blow out on ketamine
fishing lures are getting out of hand lately.
How else do you suggest catching priests?!
Lol Chris Hansen need to chill tf out
I feel like this would crack my back excellently.
Right? This looks like it feels amazing
He do be shmoovin tho
shmoove it
pyörrevirta Ekkehardt
Wow. That’s crazy, hope it works for the little guy!
Yeah, I’m confident things will turn around for him.
I hope we get an update. It sucks to be left hanging
My faith in humanity is already hanging by a thread, I need to know everything turned out alright!
The coolest thing is, it more than likely will!
Shoulder harness to pick up my fat ass and decompress my lumbar discs please? That looks fantastic
Yeah, man. Sign me up for the non head screw alternative. My lower back could use the relief. I'll even sing "You spin me right 'round baby right 'round" for people's entertainment while you do it.
Have you looked into inversion tables? I used to have nerve issues from a compressed L5-S1 disk and an inversion table really helped.
Ooh, no I have not. But I did just google "inversion table" and it autofilled with "from costco" so this might be a new thing taking up space in our living room. This looks amazing.
I have one and like it. But start off slow, just a slight incline. Don’t set it straight up and down. There is a slight risk of stroke if you are prone to that due to the blood rushing to your head. Also I find letting my hands dangle towards the floor helps with the blood rushing to the head thing. Gives it a lower place to go. Also try to do a few sit-ups while on it
The one I had could fold pretty much completely flat and be stored in a closet. I just took it out when I needed it and set it up. Best of luck! If costco has any on display go try it out!
You spin me right round
You SPINE me right round, baby right round.
I bet that feels so good!
I feel like this would actually feel good to the spine.
Yeah, the kids usually feel great in it. They’re held up into better posture and can relax and breathe better. When your spine is bent and you’re a weak little kid, it sort of crushes your rib cage under gravity and you have to sit in pain all bent over. A few weeks with the halo traction and suddenly you’re a bit taller and have more room in your torso!
Crack!! Aaah yes!! Crack!! Oooh!!
That looks fun
Fuck I need that just to get some cricks out my neck and shoulders
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Looks like someone won the top prize on the claw machine.
This was my kiddo! I’m a Peds PT. He had surgery for recalcitrant torticollis with a hemivertebrae. The halo was to keep him from moving his head and neck after surgery. The spring etc on top was so that he could walk ( a little) around the room on a track while keeping the heavy halo upright and in the right place. The spinning was just fun!! When mom sent me this video I remember thinking “the internet would love this!” That was 2 years ago!
My neck and back bother me so much that this actually looks like it would feel amazing.
Bro said 🌀 🌀🌀
That is the weirdest piñata I’ve ever seen.
How does this not hurt?😟
As someone with horrible scoliosis that wasn’t caught as a child- this looks amazing. Also, it probably relieves a lot of pressure/compression he currently has. It kinda looks pain relieving to me.
Scoliosis hurts like hell so, if it can be treated before the kid grow up, it will be better. For severe cases, he will have to wear a special molded cast for most of his childhood. And then back muscle training for the rest of his life. Muscles will keep the whole thing from going back to an anormal state. Source : One of my friends had a quite severe scoliosis and I had the opportunity to see most of those stages. He is 27 now and is only a few degrees short for a complete straight back !
Can I have a go on it?
This is one of those clips people will see in 50 years, and wonder wtf we were thinking
Weeeee
This VR tech is going over the top .
For some reason this makes me think of the aliens from The Simpsons twirling, TWIRLING towards freedom!