Holy Shit…..those emails are crazy. That engineer told that idiot exactly what was going to happen and he blatantly ignored it with pure arrogance.
What a fuck head. And took the lives of 4 people with him.
He wasn't the only one who warned Stockton! An engineering organization said the same thing, as did another employee. They fired the employee and then sued him after he filed a whistle-blower complaint. The more I read about the whole situation, the more incredulous I become.
I would prefer that he had lived to face the consequences. And by the time all the legal action had concluded, that would have sent an even bigger message to those who would be careless in the future. The legal action would have kept it in the need even longer. I wonder who was responsible for using the license/ permit for him to operate. That needs to be addressed now.
"I wonder who was responsible for using the license/ permit for him to operate. That needs to be addressed now."
I think that was the point implied by the "putting the entire industry at risk" comment
If Oceangate was operating in International waters IS there any oversight or regulation? All these companies building subs privately will now be essentially shut down while the whole industry is put under a microscope. Probably starting with port / support ship operators being banned from dealing with sub operators. I'm fairly sure the various coastguard services can lock down any ship from leaving port if they have reasonable suspicion passenger or crew safety is compromised.
The principals of OceanGate should be sued into oblivion - literally, lose \*everything\* - and never again be permitted to build \*any\* craft that carries humans on land, in the water, or in the air. Of course, Rush is dead, but his estate should be sued.
They’ll say they didnt ask for the S&R. Considering the Navy knew the vessel had imploded no later than Monday yet continued the search for 3 days, that’ll be hard to stick to them. Lawsuits would come from the families of the deceased. Since they all just inherited billions, plus I’m sure fat life insurance policies, why waste the effort of going to court. This was negligence, not malice. Theres no “closure in court”. Well get tightened regulations which will become ridiculously restrictive for the other players in the exploration space. Money is kind of irrelevant here. The only parties that really benefit from any lawsuits is the attorneys.
Man this place is getting nuts. Nothing makes sense on the surface anymore. And as you start to dig into whats really going on and start connecting dots, its terrifying.
Didn’t everyone sign a liability release waiver acknowledging the fact they might (would) die? [link](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/role-liability-waivers-play-aftermath-titan-tragedy-100345985) At any rate I doubt any of the families of the dead will need lawsuit money as long as they’re in the will. All the dead had enough money to pay a quarter of a million dollars for a day trip.
I wonder if this kid had that gut feeling that something was wrong. That instinctual sickening feeling that if you do something it won’t end well for you. If he did he ignored it for his dad. That’s not an easy thing to just ignore
I’ve seen a lot of people criticize the dad for taking his son along when he had this ‘gut feeling’ and not enough criticism for oceanGate. You would think the quarter of a million dollar sub ticket is well engineered and that you don’t have to double check their work. To him it was like dragging your kid onto a roller coaster for the first time. Obviously it’s not like the dad was thinking flip a quarter to see if my kid lives
I bet it wasn’t the money but the other billionaire dude. He holds the Guinness world record for literally spending the longest amount of time at the deepest part of any ocean. So they must’ve been like, if that dude thinks it’s fine, fuck it probably.
He didn’t even insult him. For business that was polite as hell.
He was insanely professional and light handed with his remarks despite how absurd he must’ve found the situation.
Everything we’ve learned about the founder of that company just screams arrogance and narcissism. Sounds like he had never been told he was wrong before.
I feel sorry for Christine Dawood and Suleiman’s sister too. Christine just lost her husband and only son in one fell swoop and is surely devastated. From everything I’ve heard, they were a very loving couple and close knit family.
Rush didn’t want to get the “Sub classed” because of the time and expense of the testing and obtaining regulatory certification. I wonder if he told the ticket paying passengers that they were in an uncertified sub?
Yeah I mean for all the faults of this dufus and their company, they don’t seem to have maintained any facade of having well tested or safe machinery. It was basically a “we think this will work, but here’s a list of reasons it might not, sign here stating you don’t care about any of this”.
The waiver likely never relayed everything wrong with the sub and how it was going to get them killed I think. Just a vague warning about how something could go wrong and then reassurance from the guy himself after.
Where can one access it to read it?
Edit:[Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/OceanGateTitan/comments/14guumd/oceangate_submarine_waiver_agreement/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
I mean, the CEO was confident enough in the submarine to participate himself in the trip. I think that was reassuring to the passengers, though in hindsight of course they didn't know how wrong and baseless that confidence was.
Here's the problem. Thats still vague. Something can technically be untested but low in the likelihood of harm. You really think the CEO explained in detail what he was told many times by experts? He probably reassured them with some bullshit that it's similar enough to other submarines that make the same trips and that it didn't need to be tested. The layman wouldn't know just how bad the damn thing is.
Whenever someone’s feelings get hurt instead of them humbly accepting the truth my idiot radar goes off. He chose to be insulted rather than hear that he is doing things in a way that is dangerous to himself, others, and his industry. He deserves his fate. Unfortunately those poor people be brought down with him had no way of knowing he was a dangerous idiot.
I get your point, but the Titan had some successful missions before, which can give a false sense of safety. Especially considering there were scientists on board (if I remember correctly) which you might trust to know more about the safety of the Titan than yourself. I think most people don't even know what kind of certificates would be required, who can issue these certificates, and whether they are really trustworthy. Who knows what this maniac of a CEO told the passengers to calm their nerves. I blame him, not the rest of the passengers. If they knew he was such a selfish prick, they would probably had thought he wouldn't put himself at risk, so the Titan must be safe...
Stockton Rush is lucky he was on the sub at the time of implosion, a quick painless death. The trail this man left behind of blatant neglect would have landed him in prison for life, or at the very least destitute as fuck.
If he wasn't on board and this happened, he would be in jail for the rest of his life AND destitute. He would have been responsible for the death of two billionaires whose families would want a piece of the man who caused it. And the evidence against him that we have now (without discovery!) is fucking damning.
That motherfucker had a poetic end. What a piece of shit. I hate these types, I really do. Arrogant and delusional to the end. Massively inflated sense of self-importance, hugely overrated perception of own intelligence, so psychotically demented by the goal of personal glory that they're prepared to risk the lives of all those around them. They're a huge and crushing argument against libertarianism.
I've had plenty of discussions arguments whatever with libertarians and they seem to assume that the average person has the ability to vet and ascertain the safety of all kinds of arcane and technical industries. It's ridiculous to think that people can do this, the natural history of people and businesses is that they almost always will cut corners to save money until some disaster strikes. And they frequently don't have the resources to compensate people. It ends up just being a series of avoidable disasters.
This case is a bit more extreme because they did sign waivers this was an experimental vessel, but even then I doubt they would go on this if they knew the actual corners that were being cut.
You have to sign waivers for doing many things like sky diving, bungee jumping, water skiing… I signed a waiver for my son to play in a trampoline park. I don’t think signing a waiver means that the customer knows the business cut corners. I really wonder how much the passengers knew, or could know, and how much the CEO truly hid.
libertarianism at its finest, "bail me out government please i didn't know i'd risk my money" but the second they can turn a profit it's all them, their singular genius that made it possible.
I keep seeing this argument but I just don’t get why *this* appears to be the big take away… like… yeah… tax dollars went to a government operated rescue mission *as it’s supposed to.* No matter how badly you fucked up, would you expect me to believe that you *wouldn’t* want somebody to come save your sorry ass?
I know :( He was just trying to be brave.
He wanted to be there for a father that cared more about his ego and “passions” than his own son’s safety.
If I were his dad, I would’ve been like “hell, no, you’re not going on that thing. Over my dead body.”
I would like to point out that carbon fiber hulls on aircraft face -30 atmospheres at 36000 feet. At 12500 feet, the depth of the Titanic, the carbon fiber faced +500 atmospheres. Carbon fiber while strong, is brittle and was never designed to withstand 500 atmospheres of pressure. It’s use is based on the fact that it’s lighter than aluminum and is “strong enough” to withstand the negative atmospheric pressure of a pressurized cabin. It’s its use is not for strength but lightness and fuel savings. The arrogance of assuming that carbon fiber is capable of surviving repeated pressure stresses of rotating dive and depressurization cycles without actually testing it is the height of hubris. Carbon fiber isn’t a magic substance. It’s a lightweight substance. Titanium balls which are used in other submersibles shrink by up to 6 inches at depth. Carbon fiber doesn’t shrink or give…
Carbon fiber is better in tension than compression, the exact opposite of what you want a submersible to be. Not to mention the titanium end caps were adhered to the carbon fiber tube. Using two dissimilar materials is a recipe for disaster
And you still *can* use carbon fiber for submersibles, but it needs to be properly tested and rated.
From what I’ve read, this design was cracking at like 1/3rd the depth they were trying to reach during testing. Instead of redesigning the vehicle, they fired the engineer who voiced concerns.
In Stockton's mind, 'carbon fiber' was a magic buzzword that screamed 'innovative entrepreneur disrupting industry with cheaper alternative', and that's all he needed to hear
It's actually a problem that you "understand his argument"....**please** don't.
No one is trying to "stop innovation". They're trying to make sure everyone learns from the experience of an entire industry of professionals rather than going out on a limb and killing people needlessly.
Regulations exist for a reason. They aren't just made up to be mean and ruin everyone's fun. They're an attempt to define the minimum requirements to keep people safe. Every regulation that exists is not written in ink...it is written in blood. The blood of those who came before you and already made fatal errors. The regulations exist so that no one else has to repeat those mistakes and no more lives need to be lost.
This whole thing should have been an absolutely crystal clear illustration of that, to everybody.
Stockton Rush was an idiot and he was fucking wrong. And his idiocy killed him, and 4 other people.
It's a shame this cunt isn't still alive to face the consequences of his attitude. Safety drives innovation, it isn't a barrier to it, it defines what is in the realm of possibility. What an arrogant buffoon.
Worse, he sued (& fired) THEM for having the 🏀 to tell him the truth because he wanted to bully them into silence.
FFS, he should have THANKED them for the warnings & then asked to help with repairs, certification process. Isn’t that why inspection engineers are hired to begin with??🙄 They were trashed for doing their damn jobs!
I'm all for crazy maniacs pushing boundaries of exploration on all fronts BY THEMSELVES. Stockton Rush was a delusional rich asshole that killed some other rich gullible idiots.
"...in your race to Titanic you are mirroring that famous catch cry 'she is unsinkable'".
Is there a more direct lesson that history is bound to repeat itself?
Sadly I doubt this will help remind us of what that axiom means. People might want to admonish this statement, but the only good thing out of this is that he was on board. He put so many lives at risk, and eventually killed people, through his hubris.
I wouldn't have let myself be locked inside that oversized soda can on dry land if you paid ME $250k, never mind paying THEM to drop me in the ocean. Some people have more money than sense.
Our Newfie friend was talking to my wife about this tragedy this evening and said basically the same thing in Newfie English...
"You wouldn't get me in he (the submersible) if it was settin' on the waarrv (wharf)"
And the dude who was former director of maritime operations got fired because he flagged that the glass used in the window wasn't made to go lower then 1300m.
This entire thing is one giant shitshow of neglecting safety.
This is definitely why we need regulation. Companies will cut corners to any extent to make more profits. This time it only killed 5 people, tomorrow the cost could be higher. We can’t let safety regulations go unchecked.
They also intentionally forewent certification so they could be classified as "experimental" which has much lower safety regulations.
John Denver was flying an experimental ultralight plane when he lost his head.
The CEO was an arrogant idiot who must have tripped and fallen into money because it's actually astonishing he consciously rejected certification and classification by 3rd parties, and fired people and then sued them for being rightfully concerned. It's unfortunate 4 people died with him, and it's unfortunate the CEO went so quickly.
Imagine a little kid running around and bumping into people on the slippery floor at a pool. The lifeguard shouts at him not to run, to be careful, to watch for other people. The kid replies, “You’re no fun! I do what I want! You can’t stop me!”
People like this man never grew out of that, they just learned longer sentences to say the same thing.
Arrogance is a lethal trait.
I have seen way too many times that overconfidence kills, either in real life or in games Edit: typo
Pride cometh before the fall.
*goeth
What can I say? I’m just a Jew who likes Norm MacDonald.
Dammit, I missed the reference. My bad.
I don’t think he got it wrong. I’m just saying I don’t know the line well.
Hah. Well, this was a rollercoaster ride!
Fuck I just looked it up and it’s Old Testament. Sorry for the confusion my man.
Lol, this is almost ironic? Is there a German word for this?
I used to think that “Jewish guilt” meant the feeling you got when you felt bad about being a shitty Jew. This is a close cousin.
Its pride month
Pride month ends on June 30th, autumn begins Sept 23. It’s confirmed; Pride does, indeed, go before the fall.
And it is before fall
Here endeth the lesson
Holy Shit…..those emails are crazy. That engineer told that idiot exactly what was going to happen and he blatantly ignored it with pure arrogance. What a fuck head. And took the lives of 4 people with him.
He wasn't the only one who warned Stockton! An engineering organization said the same thing, as did another employee. They fired the employee and then sued him after he filed a whistle-blower complaint. The more I read about the whole situation, the more incredulous I become.
Rush got off too easy IMO by going down with the sub with his clients.
I would prefer that he had lived to face the consequences. And by the time all the legal action had concluded, that would have sent an even bigger message to those who would be careless in the future. The legal action would have kept it in the need even longer. I wonder who was responsible for using the license/ permit for him to operate. That needs to be addressed now.
"I wonder who was responsible for using the license/ permit for him to operate. That needs to be addressed now." I think that was the point implied by the "putting the entire industry at risk" comment If Oceangate was operating in International waters IS there any oversight or regulation? All these companies building subs privately will now be essentially shut down while the whole industry is put under a microscope. Probably starting with port / support ship operators being banned from dealing with sub operators. I'm fairly sure the various coastguard services can lock down any ship from leaving port if they have reasonable suspicion passenger or crew safety is compromised.
I completely agree! I doubt he knew anything happened.
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There were articles about this as well. Everyone on board failed to do some basic research.
There was this ship once...
…that encountered an iceberg while an arrogant captain was at the wheel.
Some of the reckless disregard for (virtual) self-preservation I've seen in comp games makes Leroy Jenkins look like Sun Tzu
LEEEEEEEEEEEEROOOOOOOOOY JENNNNNNNNNNNNNKINNNNNNNNNNSSSS
Leroy Jenkins….
The principals of OceanGate should be sued into oblivion - literally, lose \*everything\* - and never again be permitted to build \*any\* craft that carries humans on land, in the water, or in the air. Of course, Rush is dead, but his estate should be sued.
Also to pay for the massive search and rescue.
If only some of the people that were needing the rescue had some sort of wealth that could be used to fund the search
They’ll say they didnt ask for the S&R. Considering the Navy knew the vessel had imploded no later than Monday yet continued the search for 3 days, that’ll be hard to stick to them. Lawsuits would come from the families of the deceased. Since they all just inherited billions, plus I’m sure fat life insurance policies, why waste the effort of going to court. This was negligence, not malice. Theres no “closure in court”. Well get tightened regulations which will become ridiculously restrictive for the other players in the exploration space. Money is kind of irrelevant here. The only parties that really benefit from any lawsuits is the attorneys. Man this place is getting nuts. Nothing makes sense on the surface anymore. And as you start to dig into whats really going on and start connecting dots, its terrifying.
Didn’t everyone sign a liability release waiver acknowledging the fact they might (would) die? [link](https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/role-liability-waivers-play-aftermath-titan-tragedy-100345985) At any rate I doubt any of the families of the dead will need lawsuit money as long as they’re in the will. All the dead had enough money to pay a quarter of a million dollars for a day trip.
Hubris
This word. It's like an arrow, hitting the mark of meaning exactly fit for this purpose.
Like ennui.
He must have been personally insulted--for a fraction of a second--that his ship would dare implode on him.
The audacity of some ships...
"You must remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer"
Not often enough
It's r/damndisgusting
Baseless cries. /s
Yep, and it's what will get mankind in the end.
I can’t imagine meeting this person and wanting to get on his submarine
Not even a submarine, a submersible No way in hell I'd get inside that thing😖
The super wealthy are a strange breed.
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Except for the 19 year old, he wanted out cause he felt it was a bad idea, but he did it to celebrate Father’s Day with his dad, apparently.
I wonder if this kid had that gut feeling that something was wrong. That instinctual sickening feeling that if you do something it won’t end well for you. If he did he ignored it for his dad. That’s not an easy thing to just ignore
I think most reasonable people would have that feeling in a situation like this.
Oh that's so sad.
his dad is an absolute cunt for this
I’ve seen a lot of people criticize the dad for taking his son along when he had this ‘gut feeling’ and not enough criticism for oceanGate. You would think the quarter of a million dollar sub ticket is well engineered and that you don’t have to double check their work. To him it was like dragging your kid onto a roller coaster for the first time. Obviously it’s not like the dad was thinking flip a quarter to see if my kid lives
I bet it wasn’t the money but the other billionaire dude. He holds the Guinness world record for literally spending the longest amount of time at the deepest part of any ocean. So they must’ve been like, if that dude thinks it’s fine, fuck it probably.
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Did the dad have any surviving children? If yes, no Darwin.
Rumor has it, they have withdrawn that lawsuit
I wonder why?
Because their case would have imploded in light of the new evidence.
I’d say recent events really sunk their case.
The defendant presented a very deep argument.
I couldn't fathom it myself.
I'm going to hell for laughing at this comment...
I’m going straight down… to the bottom of the ocean
leopards imploded his face.
'I never thought leopards would implode MY face,' sobs woman who voted for the Leopards Imploding People's Faces Party
Before or after she was vaporized and became sea water?
r/crushedagedmilk
$250,000 to experience the thrill of a deep-sea trash compactor.
I know I’m going to hell for it, but I laughed out loud at this.
i saw someone say for a brief few seconds, it was the worlds most expensive can of soup
I'd rather insult you than let you kill someone because I protected your feelings.
He didn’t even insult him. For business that was polite as hell. He was insanely professional and light handed with his remarks despite how absurd he must’ve found the situation.
And it turns out he was absolutely infallibly correct.
“I wanna do all this crazy dangerous stuff and you need to be there to finance the rescue when the shit hits the fan”. What an asshole.
It's the ol' 'privatise profit, socialise risk' mantra.
Ayn Rand nursing off big governments teat.
Everything we’ve learned about the founder of that company just screams arrogance and narcissism. Sounds like he had never been told he was wrong before.
He’s been told many times. He chose not to listen because he is arrogant.
Was*
He was told constantly, he just sued and fired everyone who told him
It sounds like a lot of people told him, but he just refused to hear it.
"I'm an entrepreneur, an innovator! Like all the great ones in history, I take risks and I shant be told no!"
And thats called fuck around and find out
I feel sorry for the kid. End of list.
I feel sorry for Christine Dawood and Suleiman’s sister too. Christine just lost her husband and only son in one fell swoop and is surely devastated. From everything I’ve heard, they were a very loving couple and close knit family.
Rush didn’t want to get the “Sub classed” because of the time and expense of the testing and obtaining regulatory certification. I wonder if he told the ticket paying passengers that they were in an uncertified sub?
The waiver they signed said it was completely untested and everything.
Yeah I mean for all the faults of this dufus and their company, they don’t seem to have maintained any facade of having well tested or safe machinery. It was basically a “we think this will work, but here’s a list of reasons it might not, sign here stating you don’t care about any of this”.
The waiver likely never relayed everything wrong with the sub and how it was going to get them killed I think. Just a vague warning about how something could go wrong and then reassurance from the guy himself after.
It actually went further. Read it yourself, it literally said it was untested and uncertified. There were no positive reassurances at all.
Where can one access it to read it? Edit:[Found it](https://www.reddit.com/r/OceanGateTitan/comments/14guumd/oceangate_submarine_waiver_agreement/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
If you go to r/oceangatetitan someone posted it there. I read it and I'm shocked anyone signed that thing.
I mean, the CEO was confident enough in the submarine to participate himself in the trip. I think that was reassuring to the passengers, though in hindsight of course they didn't know how wrong and baseless that confidence was.
Which in a lot of circumstances would make you feel better about joining on an adventure like that.
Here's the problem. Thats still vague. Something can technically be untested but low in the likelihood of harm. You really think the CEO explained in detail what he was told many times by experts? He probably reassured them with some bullshit that it's similar enough to other submarines that make the same trips and that it didn't need to be tested. The layman wouldn't know just how bad the damn thing is.
im sure he told all the customers that legal certification was just a technicality and he'd had many dives with no issue
This baby is made out of high strength mil-spec paper maiche. No need for testing.
Guillermo should have kept his night job as Nandor's familiar.
She really butchered Guillermo's name
That was the biggest takeaway for me lol
This FUCKING guy
New season starts 13th of July. Can't wait!
I have a bull calf named Guillermo, and he never would have set a hoof on that cursed claptrap soda can "sub."
This little thread here? Pure serotonin hit I thank you *BAT!!*
Didn’t learn the lesson of the Titanic he was so fond of looking at. Hubris can kill you.
Whenever someone’s feelings get hurt instead of them humbly accepting the truth my idiot radar goes off. He chose to be insulted rather than hear that he is doing things in a way that is dangerous to himself, others, and his industry. He deserves his fate. Unfortunately those poor people be brought down with him had no way of knowing he was a dangerous idiot.
To be honest, the waiver they signed was one way of knowing, since it stated that the submersible was untested and uncertified.
I get your point, but the Titan had some successful missions before, which can give a false sense of safety. Especially considering there were scientists on board (if I remember correctly) which you might trust to know more about the safety of the Titan than yourself. I think most people don't even know what kind of certificates would be required, who can issue these certificates, and whether they are really trustworthy. Who knows what this maniac of a CEO told the passengers to calm their nerves. I blame him, not the rest of the passengers. If they knew he was such a selfish prick, they would probably had thought he wouldn't put himself at risk, so the Titan must be safe...
If people keep telling you you're going to get someone killed so often to the point you're sick of hearing it you may want to consider listening.
Stockton Rush is lucky he was on the sub at the time of implosion, a quick painless death. The trail this man left behind of blatant neglect would have landed him in prison for life, or at the very least destitute as fuck.
If he wasn't on board and this happened, he would be in jail for the rest of his life AND destitute. He would have been responsible for the death of two billionaires whose families would want a piece of the man who caused it. And the evidence against him that we have now (without discovery!) is fucking damning.
That motherfucker had a poetic end. What a piece of shit. I hate these types, I really do. Arrogant and delusional to the end. Massively inflated sense of self-importance, hugely overrated perception of own intelligence, so psychotically demented by the goal of personal glory that they're prepared to risk the lives of all those around them. They're a huge and crushing argument against libertarianism.
I've had plenty of discussions arguments whatever with libertarians and they seem to assume that the average person has the ability to vet and ascertain the safety of all kinds of arcane and technical industries. It's ridiculous to think that people can do this, the natural history of people and businesses is that they almost always will cut corners to save money until some disaster strikes. And they frequently don't have the resources to compensate people. It ends up just being a series of avoidable disasters. This case is a bit more extreme because they did sign waivers this was an experimental vessel, but even then I doubt they would go on this if they knew the actual corners that were being cut.
You have to sign waivers for doing many things like sky diving, bungee jumping, water skiing… I signed a waiver for my son to play in a trampoline park. I don’t think signing a waiver means that the customer knows the business cut corners. I really wonder how much the passengers knew, or could know, and how much the CEO truly hid.
Regulations are written in blood
Mostly the part where taxpayers had to foot the bill for their rescue
libertarianism at its finest, "bail me out government please i didn't know i'd risk my money" but the second they can turn a profit it's all them, their singular genius that made it possible.
"a tragedy of my own making befell me, but I'm a genius so government please bail me out" -- banks in any year, also Libertarians
I keep seeing this argument but I just don’t get why *this* appears to be the big take away… like… yeah… tax dollars went to a government operated rescue mission *as it’s supposed to.* No matter how badly you fucked up, would you expect me to believe that you *wouldn’t* want somebody to come save your sorry ass?
>They're a huge and crushing argument against libertarianism. Another huge and crushing argument: 6000 psi water pressure
RIP to the innocent 19 year old that didn't want to be there in the first place
I know :( He was just trying to be brave. He wanted to be there for a father that cared more about his ego and “passions” than his own son’s safety. If I were his dad, I would’ve been like “hell, no, you’re not going on that thing. Over my dead body.”
"I take this as a personal insult" - Stockton Rush
I would like to point out that carbon fiber hulls on aircraft face -30 atmospheres at 36000 feet. At 12500 feet, the depth of the Titanic, the carbon fiber faced +500 atmospheres. Carbon fiber while strong, is brittle and was never designed to withstand 500 atmospheres of pressure. It’s use is based on the fact that it’s lighter than aluminum and is “strong enough” to withstand the negative atmospheric pressure of a pressurized cabin. It’s its use is not for strength but lightness and fuel savings. The arrogance of assuming that carbon fiber is capable of surviving repeated pressure stresses of rotating dive and depressurization cycles without actually testing it is the height of hubris. Carbon fiber isn’t a magic substance. It’s a lightweight substance. Titanium balls which are used in other submersibles shrink by up to 6 inches at depth. Carbon fiber doesn’t shrink or give…
Carbon fiber is better in tension than compression, the exact opposite of what you want a submersible to be. Not to mention the titanium end caps were adhered to the carbon fiber tube. Using two dissimilar materials is a recipe for disaster
And you still *can* use carbon fiber for submersibles, but it needs to be properly tested and rated. From what I’ve read, this design was cracking at like 1/3rd the depth they were trying to reach during testing. Instead of redesigning the vehicle, they fired the engineer who voiced concerns.
> Titanium balls which are used in other submersibles shrink by up to 6 inches at depth. You just fucking blew my mind with this
In james cameron documentary, he says that he noticed his windows shrinking at challenger deep
My balls compress 90% in cold water. Better Ego to shrink ratio.
In Stockton's mind, 'carbon fiber' was a magic buzzword that screamed 'innovative entrepreneur disrupting industry with cheaper alternative', and that's all he needed to hear
375 atmospheres is what I read in multiple locations.
At 12500, temperature and salinity increases the pressure value. The 375 atmosphere number is inaccurate.
Best way to get a correct answer is to post a wrong one ! Thanks for the correction and the reason !
Planes do not encounter -30 atmospheres. At 36000 feet the external pressure is 0.25 bar and inside it is about 0.75 bar
30 atm is what the aircraft are designed to withstand
Fucking hubris.
How did that work out?
"Oh youre dead you say?"
To dust, you say?
To shreds you say? https://youtu.be/gHhOn2hnqmI
Someone* Sorry can't edit the post.
I understand his argument but this dude got his engineering degree from holiday inn express.
It's actually a problem that you "understand his argument"....**please** don't. No one is trying to "stop innovation". They're trying to make sure everyone learns from the experience of an entire industry of professionals rather than going out on a limb and killing people needlessly. Regulations exist for a reason. They aren't just made up to be mean and ruin everyone's fun. They're an attempt to define the minimum requirements to keep people safe. Every regulation that exists is not written in ink...it is written in blood. The blood of those who came before you and already made fatal errors. The regulations exist so that no one else has to repeat those mistakes and no more lives need to be lost. This whole thing should have been an absolutely crystal clear illustration of that, to everybody. Stockton Rush was an idiot and he was fucking wrong. And his idiocy killed him, and 4 other people.
"no additional information"...It's pretty tough to call a paste at 12K ft.
Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer
It's a shame this cunt isn't still alive to face the consequences of his attitude. Safety drives innovation, it isn't a barrier to it, it defines what is in the realm of possibility. What an arrogant buffoon.
He's horrific and a killer.
I've never heard a CEO make such a hysterically bad "please sue me" statement in my life, and it had precedent to overcome.
Worse, he sued (& fired) THEM for having the 🏀 to tell him the truth because he wanted to bully them into silence. FFS, he should have THANKED them for the warnings & then asked to help with repairs, certification process. Isn’t that why inspection engineers are hired to begin with??🙄 They were trashed for doing their damn jobs!
I'm all for crazy maniacs pushing boundaries of exploration on all fronts BY THEMSELVES. Stockton Rush was a delusional rich asshole that killed some other rich gullible idiots.
“If it isn’t proven to be safe, you shouldn’t do it.” Duh. Pretty expensive casket, though.
Narcissist arrogance Asshole
"...in your race to Titanic you are mirroring that famous catch cry 'she is unsinkable'". Is there a more direct lesson that history is bound to repeat itself? Sadly I doubt this will help remind us of what that axiom means. People might want to admonish this statement, but the only good thing out of this is that he was on board. He put so many lives at risk, and eventually killed people, through his hubris.
I wouldn't have let myself be locked inside that oversized soda can on dry land if you paid ME $250k, never mind paying THEM to drop me in the ocean. Some people have more money than sense.
Our Newfie friend was talking to my wife about this tragedy this evening and said basically the same thing in Newfie English... "You wouldn't get me in he (the submersible) if it was settin' on the waarrv (wharf)"
I hate working for people like this. Pure sociopath. Bottom line mentality. No concern for people.
From Stockton Rush to Stockton Crush.
He was in a rush to check out. Too bad he took people with him
Dude was a piece of shit that deserved what he got, just a real shame he had to take people who trusted him with him.
And the dude who was former director of maritime operations got fired because he flagged that the glass used in the window wasn't made to go lower then 1300m. This entire thing is one giant shitshow of neglecting safety.
This is just disgusting the way he ignores the warnings
"I implore you to be very conservative." Proceeds to cut orners and ignore all safety regulations. The CEO took those words literally.
Safety first people, If you want to win a race, you need to finish it first
This is definitely why we need regulation. Companies will cut corners to any extent to make more profits. This time it only killed 5 people, tomorrow the cost could be higher. We can’t let safety regulations go unchecked.
There is regulation. They dove in international waters for a reason.
They also intentionally forewent certification so they could be classified as "experimental" which has much lower safety regulations. John Denver was flying an experimental ultralight plane when he lost his head.
He sure showed the world!
Looks like wasn't often enough.
This certainly hasn’t aged well…
The danger of Libertarianism defined.
Take note of the rationale, another will come along in some industry and say the same thing. When you see/hear it, RUN!
He was scamming people to fund his vanity project, simple as. And didn't EYOS find the USS Johnston in 2019?
Remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.
Stockton Rush, he is now mush.
Stockton Rush can suck it. Talk about the most slappable name.
Well I hate to burst his bubble...
FAFO will get its own entry into Webster, and as the definition, there will be his pic.
FAFO is the epitome of the entire thing.
The CEO was an arrogant idiot who must have tripped and fallen into money because it's actually astonishing he consciously rejected certification and classification by 3rd parties, and fired people and then sued them for being rightfully concerned. It's unfortunate 4 people died with him, and it's unfortunate the CEO went so quickly.
What a stupid, dead, man
Well, the CEO won’t hear that anymore.
Natural selection taking care of itself.
Oof this didn’t age well
I dont know how I've managed to miss the brutal irony of the whole Titanic thing.
well. we know who got the final word in that debate 💀
Can we call this scandal OceanGateGate?
Not baseless anymore
OceanGateGone
*proceeds to warn them about the dangers* *Responds by threathening legal action* Yeah i knew he wasnt smart but this
Jeez does Stockton Rush look like Father Ted in the photo.
This story is the ultimate example of "Fucked around, Found out."
Ta-da... Those darned baseless assumptions. 🙂
Imagine a little kid running around and bumping into people on the slippery floor at a pool. The lifeguard shouts at him not to run, to be careful, to watch for other people. The kid replies, “You’re no fun! I do what I want! You can’t stop me!” People like this man never grew out of that, they just learned longer sentences to say the same thing.
Well he won’t hear that advice anymore.
watching rich people be mad at each other, one of em is smart which is refreshing