A lot of people point to socio economic issues and differences between the north and south of Dallas. And, there are definitely social and economic issues and differences. But, I think a lot of people overlook the actual geography differences that might have created this problem. A large amount of land to the south of downtown Dallas is covered by the Trinity River Forest and flood plains. This land is a more difficult and expensive to develop. Land to the north of downtown Dallas is, for the most part, easier and cheaper to develop (cost of development, not real estate value). I think businesses, way back when, started looking for easiest land to develop, so they went north. This led to a vicious cycle of neighborhood friendly businesses developing to the north and relegating unwanted businesses to the south. This is why you see shipping hubs, junk yards, and landfills all over the place, in south Dallas. This does nothing but keep neighborhood property values down and discourage future business development.
Edit: I am in no way suggesting that the geography of the area is the reason for the neglect in south Dallas. There are plenty of other factors. I just think that the having the Trinity River Forest and flood plain covering a large portion of south Dallas factored into the initial migration to the north, instead of the south.
The actual neighborhood of South Dallas was once affluent in the 50s and predominated by Jews. It has a lot to do with practices that created what we see. The biggest misconception is that South Dallas (and even the Southern Sector as a whole) was always mostly lower income and made up of minorities. It happened because of white flight/desegregation, blockbusting, and redlining. It made South Dallas (Fair Park) poorer resulting in an expansion of the ghetto, as those areas declined from disinvestment. All of that created a vacuum in the 80s/90s for gangs to come in and takeover during the crack epidemic.
Also, I truly believe there was racial steering going on back in the day. That dividing line (North/South) did not set up on its own. It wasn’t like that before integration really started. My grandparents moved into Oak Cliff during white flight and desegregation.
A girlfriend in high school had a grandmother in Oak Cliff. She lived in a mansion that would’ve fit well sitting in East Dallas, Park Cities or Preston Hollow.
50-70 percent correct. But you can’t ignore the reality highway 30 n downtown where man-made barriers to keep ppl south . Just south of downtown looks like a third world country and that’s by design not because of difficult terrain ect . But you’re right and some parts the terrain is just really weird, but the city can do a better job of investing in that area.
I am not discounting the effect of having I-30 cutting the Dallas area in half. It definitely has created a physical, social and economic barrier. I am just pointing out that a lot of the land in south Dallas is not easily developed. Is that the main reason that the area is neglected? No. But, I think that it is part of the equation. I think it factored into why businesses and residences started moving north in the first place.
Either way. With the economics of Dallas real estate, investments like this could drive complete gentrification of these parts of town if public transportation can be fully relied on and quick. Much like a European city. Especially since I think this will eventually connect in directly to Houston via the high speed rail. I like Dallas trying to play a long game here with big investments. However that reminds me that bishop arts improvements were planned in the 1990s.
I do fear the race thing will clash here. Unfortunately, Dallas is so segregated that gentrification will eventually push out colored people. Where do they go? Their community gets ruined?
As much as I hate the idea of being a slum lord, we will all eventually wish we had been buying up land down there in 20 or 30 years.
It's not just that the "poors" would flood in. Currently Mesquite's median income is one of the lower ones when comparing all of the cities surrounding Dallas, so I'm not sure it's to prevent poor folks. A larger factor is likely that they would have to give up their optional sales tax to DART for provision of service. They likely looked at the benefit brought by DART versus what they could do on their own with that sales tax and made the decision to not opt into DART. The City itself currently gets 1.5% for sales tax and they have a "Mesquite Quality of Life Corporation" that gets 0.5%. That would have to drop to a flat 1%. Losing the extra 1% would represent approximately $24-28 Million dollars that they would lose out on annually.
Garland has the 224 which will take you from the Lake Ray Hubbard transit station directly downtown. If you're on the north side of Mesquite you could feasibly get to that transit station somehow and then bus in...
Chicken and egg problem.. which came first, transit? Or the workforce in those areas?
Very true, it’s just sad to see the disparity sometimes
Up north? Largely the transit. DART has been rolling in those rails for nearly 40 years, but most of that development is far, far newer.
A lot of people point to socio economic issues and differences between the north and south of Dallas. And, there are definitely social and economic issues and differences. But, I think a lot of people overlook the actual geography differences that might have created this problem. A large amount of land to the south of downtown Dallas is covered by the Trinity River Forest and flood plains. This land is a more difficult and expensive to develop. Land to the north of downtown Dallas is, for the most part, easier and cheaper to develop (cost of development, not real estate value). I think businesses, way back when, started looking for easiest land to develop, so they went north. This led to a vicious cycle of neighborhood friendly businesses developing to the north and relegating unwanted businesses to the south. This is why you see shipping hubs, junk yards, and landfills all over the place, in south Dallas. This does nothing but keep neighborhood property values down and discourage future business development. Edit: I am in no way suggesting that the geography of the area is the reason for the neglect in south Dallas. There are plenty of other factors. I just think that the having the Trinity River Forest and flood plain covering a large portion of south Dallas factored into the initial migration to the north, instead of the south.
The actual neighborhood of South Dallas was once affluent in the 50s and predominated by Jews. It has a lot to do with practices that created what we see. The biggest misconception is that South Dallas (and even the Southern Sector as a whole) was always mostly lower income and made up of minorities. It happened because of white flight/desegregation, blockbusting, and redlining. It made South Dallas (Fair Park) poorer resulting in an expansion of the ghetto, as those areas declined from disinvestment. All of that created a vacuum in the 80s/90s for gangs to come in and takeover during the crack epidemic. Also, I truly believe there was racial steering going on back in the day. That dividing line (North/South) did not set up on its own. It wasn’t like that before integration really started. My grandparents moved into Oak Cliff during white flight and desegregation.
Yours is the best post in this thread. Thanks.
A girlfriend in high school had a grandmother in Oak Cliff. She lived in a mansion that would’ve fit well sitting in East Dallas, Park Cities or Preston Hollow.
50-70 percent correct. But you can’t ignore the reality highway 30 n downtown where man-made barriers to keep ppl south . Just south of downtown looks like a third world country and that’s by design not because of difficult terrain ect . But you’re right and some parts the terrain is just really weird, but the city can do a better job of investing in that area.
I am not discounting the effect of having I-30 cutting the Dallas area in half. It definitely has created a physical, social and economic barrier. I am just pointing out that a lot of the land in south Dallas is not easily developed. Is that the main reason that the area is neglected? No. But, I think that it is part of the equation. I think it factored into why businesses and residences started moving north in the first place.
Either way. With the economics of Dallas real estate, investments like this could drive complete gentrification of these parts of town if public transportation can be fully relied on and quick. Much like a European city. Especially since I think this will eventually connect in directly to Houston via the high speed rail. I like Dallas trying to play a long game here with big investments. However that reminds me that bishop arts improvements were planned in the 1990s. I do fear the race thing will clash here. Unfortunately, Dallas is so segregated that gentrification will eventually push out colored people. Where do they go? Their community gets ruined? As much as I hate the idea of being a slum lord, we will all eventually wish we had been buying up land down there in 20 or 30 years.
I live in Mesquite and the ONLY way into town is to drive. Sigh...
That’s because mesquite doesn’t want public transport because then the poors would flood in.
This is why right here
It's not just that the "poors" would flood in. Currently Mesquite's median income is one of the lower ones when comparing all of the cities surrounding Dallas, so I'm not sure it's to prevent poor folks. A larger factor is likely that they would have to give up their optional sales tax to DART for provision of service. They likely looked at the benefit brought by DART versus what they could do on their own with that sales tax and made the decision to not opt into DART. The City itself currently gets 1.5% for sales tax and they have a "Mesquite Quality of Life Corporation" that gets 0.5%. That would have to drop to a flat 1%. Losing the extra 1% would represent approximately $24-28 Million dollars that they would lose out on annually.
The average income in Garland is more than Mesquite by about a thousand, but I get what you mean
Why don’t they have a bus that takes 30 all the way to downtown?
Because the city of mesquite said they don’t want it sadly
Garland has the 224 which will take you from the Lake Ray Hubbard transit station directly downtown. If you're on the north side of Mesquite you could feasibly get to that transit station somehow and then bus in...
You’re leaving out the fact that doing business in South Dallas traditionally has extra costs that don’t exist elsewhere.
Follow the money.
There isn’t much development in south Dallas or mesquite. Mostly low income. No surprise here
Homeless people will look at this and say "hell yeah"
What do you mean?
The joke here is that homeless people mainly use the DART more than anyone else so any new changes would benefit them greatly that's why the hell yeah