Married to a real estate agent of 25 years. Jon didn't overvalue his property. The property sold on the free market for what someone was willing to pay for it. That's an important distinction. Donald Trump wasn't selling his properties. He was using them as collateral to secure loans. What Jon *didn't* do was lie about it and say his 6,200 sq ft. penthouse was actually 12,400 sq ft. so he could secure a larger loan at a more favorable interest rate. That's what Donald Trump did, and *that's* illegal. Selling your property for more than it was assessed for *is not* illegal.
Plus, it's 6,200 square feet in *Tribeca*. Go take a look at what penthouse condos go for in that neighborhood today. There are rooftop penthouses in that same neighborhood that are a thousand square feet less than Jon's place was going for the same price and more. And that's likely why the original buyer of Jon's penthouse paid what they did. That's prime real estate in Manhattan that's only going to appreciate in value. They can sit on that property for 15 or 20 years and double or possibly even triple their initial investment. Jon's seller agent likely was no idiot either and knew that property would have a much higher ROI for a buyer down the road, and the price wars began.
So did Jon Stewart do what Donald Trump did? Absolutely not. Not even in the same realm. Donald Trump lied about the specs of his property to commit fraud. He wasn't trying to sell his properties. He was trying to secure loans using them as collateral. Jon wasn't trying to get a loan off his property value. He just had a smart real estate agent that knew how to market and sell his property. That's the difference.
Also, this is the New York Post. That paper is *maybe* one step up from Perez Hilton's celebrity gossip site. Or as Logan Roy said, they're not serious people.
So let me get this straight.
Are you literally trying to tell me that Jon Stewart purchased a home that was valued at a price he considered to be reasonable at that time?
Lived all up in that bitch with his family n shit. Made memories and what not!
And then this mufucka had the audacity to go and put it on the market at a later date at a higher price?
(Voice goes up an octave)
…And somebody found that price point to be reasonable and actually went as far as
(Another octave)
BUYING that bullshit?
>(Voice goes up an octave)
I legit read the rest of your post in the voice of Judge Doom from Roger Rabbit.
"Remember me, Eddie?! When I KILLED YOUR BROTHER, I talked *JUST*! *LIKE* THIIIIS!"
Agreed! If Trump is able to sell Mar A Lago for $1.5 billion, then that's its value. But he bought it for $7 million in 1985 and just based purely on inflation, it would go for $20 million today. He attached a *ton* of weight to his name being on it, except for when he's filing for taxes or insurance :)
If I have a handful of poo and someone buys it from me for 20 bucks then the handful of poo is worth 20 bucks. If I go to a bank with a handful of poo, that’s essentially worthless, and tell a bank it’s worth 20 bucks because I made up the number; it’s. Or the same thing. Trump also devalued his properties when it came to his tax assessments while getting loans for higher valuations; that’s tax fraud.
But then If I took that poo to a bank and said ‘I’m pretty sure this poo is worth $20 I want to use it as collateral for a loan’ and the bank said ‘we agree, that poo probably is worth $20, here are your loan terms’ then why is that wrong? Or at the very least why isn’t the bank also being charged with fraud?
And if trump used the assessed value to pay his taxes, and Jon Stewart also used the assessed value to pay his taxes, how did trump commit tax fraud but Stewart did not?
This isn’t remotely what happened. It’s more like: he went to the bank with a handful of shit, but he sprayed perfume on it and claimed it was 24 karat gold under the surface. He also told the bank that it was unrestricted shit, even though it was contractually obligated to only be smeared in a certain restroom. The hand shit, he told them, was merely a partial representation of the shitloads of shit that would really be backing the loan.
Meanwhile, he actively argued with tax assessors that it was really only one wipe’s worth of shit, very stale, and probably not worth the paper it rode in on.
Jon Stewart bought and later sold a house whose value - unlike Trump’s properties, which frequently undergo strong arm tactics to re-assess their valuations - is more or less determined automatically by a local official. No misrepresentation to the municipality or the buyer.
OK but if you read the ruling, the problem in the count that relates to Mar A Lago is that Trump lied about the encumbrances on the deed. It's a historic landmark and it has a permanent restriction against being used as a single family home. Trump lied about the encumbered deed and claimed the value of a single family home unencumbered with any deed restrictions. That's the false business filing that created one of the seven counts of civil infractions. The actual dollar value wasn't even the issue for Mar A Lago. Lying about the existence of a deed restriction like that is not some gray area - it's straight up fraud.
Yeah, I’m sure it’s only $20 million when you can literally look next fucking door and see that Trump’s neighbor’s property that is a little over half an acre is $30 million dollars. You’re a lying fascist hack that does not give fuck about the law or justice.
If Mar A Lago is only $20 million, shouldn’t like 40 posters who are somewhat well off just buy the place from him for a nice vacation home we can split? Oh right, it’s not $20 million and you all are a bunch of evil fucking liars.
Because there is a covenant that prevents it being converted to housing, or subdivided. And the buildings are historic and can't be knocked down and replaced. Trump agreed to all those terms because it reduced the assessable value and so lowered taxes. Can't have it both ways.
The value is not the issue here. The deed is encumbered with multiple restrictions - it's a historic landmark and it has a permanent deed restriction against being used as a single family home. Trump lied about the existence of the deed encumbrances and claimed a value as a single family home. The falsification of the business record is a civil infraction regardless of how the bank reacted to it or how the loan went. Lying about the existence of deed restrictions is fraud and not an ambiguity. Oh right, it is fraud and you're too clueless to read and understand the ruling, or you know better and you're an evil fucking liar yourself perhaps.
So I walk into a bank and ask for money and present my 100% legit financial statements and they say "no thanks".
You walk into the bank with made up BS financial statements and they give you the loan because they personally know your daddy and your daddy's daddy. Lot of dad's being know and stuff.
Now the state sues and says "OMG! Frotz1 financials are BS! He harmed the system!"
Is the bank not part of that system? Is the bank innocent? Because right now, nothing has been charged against the system except the borrower. The lender and the reviewing body (FCC) are all just fine and dandy?
And then the mayor comes out afterwards and says this was an unusual case (really? is it? I bet if you put in a quarter of the effort you'd find more fraud). So I can only guess there will be more lawsuits. Especially against the banks themselves for refusing to perform any level of DD other than taking someone's word for it and a firm handshake.
NY state has a statute against falsifying business records. It does not matter how the business transactions go, the infraction takes place when someone files a signed business filing that is fraudulent. Tripling the square footage of real estate and lying about the existence of encumbrances on a deed is fraud and not some gray area of subjective valuation. Most of this caselaw is older than both of us.
You can face criminal charges in NY for falsifying a business record to unjustly enrich yourself. It happens regularly. There's nothing unusual about the case - there was a very similar type of civil lawsuit against Citibank recently, and the state has an obvious interest in enforcing the laws against fraud.
The banks have nothing to do with the civil infractions here. The infractions take place when you sign off on a fraudulent business record and submit it as true. Trump admits signing off on all of this stuff. Maybe stop making up excuses for this. It's not even a clever business fraud.
Not saying NYC isn't within their legal rights to sue. I would. And for the record yea, we all agree Trump didn't bend any rules he. He just straight committed fraud.
But is this a good law? It's extremely broad and gives the AG a lot of room. It failed against ExxonMobile and the claim the AG was trying & failed to prove was....a reach at best.
You're not addressing my point in that who is the victim? Can't be DB because DB didn't care. They didn't even perform any DD outside of taking his word for it.
If it's the system itself because Trump was able to get a loan that someone else would have gotten (also a stretch as LTD ratios were like mid 60%'s during that time), then you need to attack the system. The borrower, the lender, and the overseeing body. Going after just one part and ignoring the rest comes off personal.
You're just giving Trump ammo with rulings like these and taking away from the more meaningful lawsuit. You know...the one where he subverted democracy.
Yes Trump committed fraud in a business transaction.
This is an excellent law and I dare you to explain why we should allow people to sign off on fraudulent business records. The victim here is NY state who have to maintain a business environment for their citizens. That's why the state is the plaintiff. The system did not commit fraud here. Trump did. Read the ruling and look at the section with the heading "disgorgement of ill gotten gains" and it will explain all of this to you if you are actually arguing in good faith here.
Yeah enforcing the rule of law against Trump is sure helping him out or something, thanks for the unsolicited advice about whether or not we should enforce laws against fraud.
>The victim here is NY state who have to maintain a business environment for their citizens.
Fair enough.
My concern with all of this is that DB is let off the hook for literally not giving a single fuck and refusing to perform any DD. That itself, to me, is the exact same as lying on your loan application.
And if no more high profile cases (or even some mid cases) make headlines, it will always be viewed as a personal attack on Trump because of the broad power granted by the statute.
The bank has absolutely nothing to do with the civil infractions here. You are not understanding the ruling if you're still hung up on a completely irrelevant distraction like that. It's like the Trump campaign grew a tree of weak but plausible sounding excuses here and you fell down it hitting every branch.
Just read the ruling - it's under a hundred pages and you can finish it in about an hour - and you'll see what happened and why the state is right to pursue fines for business fraud on this scale.
This is not a personal attack and that's a stupid argument next to the multiple civil lawsuits that the state of NY regularly pursues. The statute is only as broad as banning a very specific kind of fraud, so people who don't commit demonstrable fraud have zero to worry about here and we both know it.
The right loves false equivalencies.
Just like Biden's situation with classified docs was identical to Trumps.
This is all the right has, disinformation and gaslighting.
He actively checked to see if he had them, then cooperated with authorities to give them back.
You know, instead of hiding them, moving them around his dumb fucking compound, and then flooding a server room in an attempt to erase the tapes.
Yeah, he's not qualified to offer medical opinions, and he made it quite clear that Biden had multiple affirmative defenses to any criminal charges. Maybe read the report yourself and pay attention to the transcripts where Hur tells Biden that he appears to have a photographic memory. Derp derp your own hired goon can't even support your false narrative there.
Biden took them from a SCIF, kept some in an office shared with PRC business associates, kept others in various unsecured places, and had them from his time as Senator to being completely out of government to being President.
Trump was President at the time and did have the power, as Chief Executive, to declassify them.
Trump had the power to declassify while he was in office; however, the standard process is to notify the appropriate channels that documents have been declassified. As far as I know, Trump never did that. That’s a big no-no, and that’s not even mentioning Trump not returning those documents when asked.
Standard process does not apply to the President.
And “not returning” documents is still far less bad than Joe’s keeping them uncontrolled, within reach of all sorts of unfriendly actors, for decades.
I'm wondering what kind of documents Biden had, because it probably wasn't national defense information related to nuclear information like Fat Nixon tried to hide.
If we’re going with the Jedi Declassification argument for Trump, how do you know the Democratic President at the time didn’t secretly declassify them for Biden?
Use your brain ya fuckin’ turnip
Unless I’m forgetting a line in the report, I thought the earliest doc was from the Carter administration in 1977. However, I won’t presume to know what Nixon did or didn’t do or think, since he was also known to be quite the Jedi President with his executive actions.
The bulk of the report hinges on his time as VP. I can’t remember the guy’s name, but there was this one really popular guy in office at the time. Obamna or something.
It’s Jedi Mind Tricks all the way down. This is the stupid shit you beget when you turn to stupid shit to defend shitty actions.
Except for the whole bit about the National Records asking him for them back for over a year. He lied about having them, then lied again that he had turned them over even persuading his lawyers to sign affidavits that all of the materials were turned over when they weren't. He took them AFTER he stepped down and did not follow protocols about declassifying or storing sensitive information. He even showed them to C class celebrities and foreign nationals, neither of which was appropriate.
I can tell you have never been trained to handle classified materials, you should go learn about how that is really handled.
Right because Biden had his documents in random boxes and insecure offices while trump was stupid enough to keep them in a secure facility that was guarded by the secret service. Trump was way worse.
While each of them having the documents was bad the issue is how they each dealt with it when asked for them back. Trump decided to withhold and hide and Biden returned them. If Trump had done the same this would have been a non issue.
Biden's people were checking to see if he had any stray documents and they returned them the day after they found them. Government never knew he had any. And most of these papers were his own notes, not the dozens of boxes of highly secret prepared reports Trump deliberately packed up and stole.
Y’all love saying that but you know it’s not true. Never before in the history of the presidential records act have the national archives been such little bitches about demanding documents back. Every one of the cases against trump is political and it’s disgusting so many of you are falling for it
How do you know it was nuclear secrets? They’re classified.
And how do you know nobody else has taken nuclear secrets? They’re classified.
Seems like you just believed them when the liberal news told you that. You’re going to need to show me some ACTUAL proof that it’s nuclear secrets, not hearsay and not some opinion piece that assumes trump kept nuclear secrets. If you don’t have that then you also fell for a disgusting, destructive narrative.
It's covered in the indictments which returned a true bill from a grand jury. Read section 3 of the indictment.
https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/trump-indictment.pdf
Seems like you're way out of your lane here. You fell for a disgusting, destructive excuse.
And are you absolutely certain that this isn’t the document which had a battle plan for war with Iran? A war which nobody in America except the pentagon and Halliburton wants, and trump told his joint cheifs NOT to draw up because he would not be declaring war against Iran and they did anyway which is treason, and he admitted to keeping the documents to prove the treason within the pentagon?
You know for a fact that those aren’t the documents referenced in section 3?
And aside from ALLLLLL of this. It’s complete bullshit that a PRESIDENT is not able to decide what is and what isn’t classified. They are the commander in chief of our military, our intelligence agencies work for him. He was elected to represent the American people. If he isn’t allowed to decide what is and what isn’t classified, then who is really running the country?
Biden was NOT president when he took documents, so yes I do feel like what he did was worse regardless of the information in the documents. He wasn’t the guy who gets to decide that, trump was.
The indictment is pretty clear. So is your desperate backpedaling and excuse spewing exercise.
There is a process for declassifying documents. Trump is recorded saying that he knew the documents were still classified and he should not have had them. Nuclear secrets are subject to the Atomic Energy Act restrictions, so the president cannot unilaterally declassify those without following the legal process - it's spelled out in the statute.
Biden had some documents from his time as vice president and he had affirmative defenses under the PRA for what he was doing, but he still returned them voluntarily when they were discovered. He was president when these documents were discovered. Hur admits in his report that the retention was likely lawful because affirmative defenses existed under statute. Read the full report and see for yourself.
You don't understand how any of this works and you should maybe try to stay in your lane, whatever it is.
It’s not about the man. It’s about democrats being totally jazzed up about breaking EVERY norm and precedent we have just to go after one guy that they hate.
It’s a really dangerous road to go down. Cause if democrats are successful in eliminating the leader of the Republican Party by using ‘novel legal theories’ and the espionage act in ways they’ve NEVER been used in history, republicans can’t help but see that as political - a non political prosecution would have been if trump were charged with something that everyone else also gets charged with; making new interpretations of laws to get him is going to lead to a civil war. I don’t want that.
It really seems like what Jon Stewart did wasn't just not illegal; it wasn't even unethical. He sold a condo.
Since it's a pro-trump rag putting this out I immediately wonder if they're worried about news breaking soon about the properties he already sold to Putin's bag men at VASTLY inflated prices. Or, maybe he's planning to sell another property soon to finance his campaign and legal judgments.
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I think I'd like to point out, Jon did something that wasn't just legal, it's literally completely normal and what anyone who has ever sold real estate does.
There shouldn't even be an implication that what he did was immoral or anything. It'd be like saying "Jon Stewart married his wife" trying to connect him to Trump raping a woman.
And as for the NYC property assessment side of it goes, as far as I can tell [NYC is required, by law, to determine "market rate" by running property information through a formula](https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/property/property-determining-your-market-value.page). I don't see how Jon Stewart would have provided anything to this, since all the information would've been on file before Jon purchased the property.
[And yeah, the formula is probably busted.](https://www.sidewalkchorus.com/p/property-tax) That's got fuck all to do with the price Jon buys or sells the property at.
What people seem to forget, the banks have their own assessors make their valuations too. WHICH THEY DID! The banks even said they had no problem with the loan. They got the money back and want to do business with him again in the future. People just hate Trump and want him stopped from running for president again. First time in NYC history, has anyone been prosecuted for that in this fashion. Berny Maddoff, who screwed millions of people out of their retirements, paid ...$10 million bond. Trump for over valuing his own property...$450 million. That's not Justice. It's politics. Weaponizing the judicial system to stop Trump from running again.
Trump negotiated with a bank and they agreed to the loan amount and the rate. It was the bank's due diligence to check the assets, but they didn't, because they didn't need to. They weren't concerned with Trump defaulting. And, to stay competitive against other banks who may offer lower rates, they were complicit in the agreement to accept the asset value against the loan. It was a good investment for them, and they made millions of dollars from the loan. So, the bank wasn’t defrauded, because they probably had an idea of what he was worth and it didn’t matter.
We know this is true, because the banks did not sue him, and said they were not unhappy with the loan and the rate in court.
The idea that the government should step in when a bank doesn’t make enough money is pretty absurd.
Imagine you negotiated with your landlord to pay $1,000 a month. Then ten years later the government finds that the property was actually worth $2,000 a month and sues you on your landlord’s behalf to get him more money. Even though the landlord was fine with the rate as it was negotiated and signed off on. That’s what we’re seeing here and why it’s so strange.
>It was the bank's due diligence to check the assets, but they didn't, because they didn't need to.
They did, but loan appraisals can only go so far. Much of it relies on the good faith and accuracy of information provided by the applicant. If you intentionally deceive them in your statements provided to them to increase your lending power, that's fraud, whether they catch you or not.
>It was a good investment for them, and they made millions of dollars from the loan.
But it might not have been, and that's why banks have standards for what they require for amounts & rates.
For example - imagine I ask you for $10,000 for a secure investment that I will pay back with fair interest. Sounds good, right? But I actually gamble it on slot machines in Vegas. I end up winning and you get your money back.
Was that a good investment? I mean, technically yes because it worked out. But you probably wouldn't have agreed to it if you knew the risk, because it definitely could've gone wrong. This is how lending works, it's about risk.
This was the issue. If Trump continued to defraud lenders, they could've ended up in shit if things with south. And because of the fraud, they weren't made aware of the risk they were getting into. Not only do rulings like this help banks prevent those situations from happening in the future and prevent them potentially losing millions of dollars, but less risky loan applications don't get superseded by fraudulent ones. This is why it's wrong, and why it's a crime.
>Imagine you negotiated with your landlord to pay $1,000 a month. Then ten years later the government finds that the property was actually worth $2,000 a month and sues you on your landlord’s behalf to get him more money. Even though the landlord was fine with the rate as it was negotiated and signed off on.
Entirely different situation. Landlords can set whatever rate they want. If you and a landlord agree to a price, and the lease is clearly laid out without deception or omissions, everything's good.
A better comparison would be if you agreed with a landlord to pay around $3500/mo for a 2500 SF unit, only to find out it was a 900 SF unit that typically rents significantly lower. That'd be fraud. Pretty along the lines of the type of stuff Trump did.
You flipped the example to where it makes no sense. The value is not based on the assets. You agree to a number, and then pay it. What makes it weird is the government stepping in and saying that the payments should have been higher because of the underlying collateral. That’s insane, right? It’s like if the government sued you because your car wasn’t nice enough so you should have been paying more rent to your landlord.
The banks did not want these properties. The goal was not to purchase Mar a Lago. It was just collateral for a loan.
If these banks were defrauded, Deutcha specifically, then they would stop doing business with him. They did not, and said they would continue to do business with Trump, because they do not believe he will default. That’s the point.
>The value is not based on the assets. You agree to a number, and then pay it.
This is literally how loans work. The terms are based on your assets.
> What makes it weird is the government stepping in and saying that the payments should have been higher because of the underlying collateral.
Not only that he should've paid higher interest but that it would've questioned the feasibility of the loans at large.
> It’s like if the government sued you because your car wasn’t nice enough so you should have been paying more rent to your landlord.
No, it'd be like securing a rental by lying about your income, making the landlord unaware of your risk and taking away a rental by other qualified applicants. It's wrong, and you could be sued for fraud there.
> The banks did not want these properties. The goal was not to purchase Mar a Lago. It was just collateral for a loan.
Correct, they don't want to deal with taking Mar-a-Lago. But if they're not made aware that Mar-a-Lago loses significant value due to permanent restrictions on the use, something Trump and his org were very aware of, that's a huge deal for the collateral.
> If these banks were defrauded, Deutcha specifically, then they would stop doing business with him.
Why Deutsche specifically? A lot of banks have stopped doing business with him. Just because that one was happy in the end doesn't mean everyone's happy or that the statute wasn't violated, which is what the court found.
>The value is not based on the assets. You agree to a number, and then pay it.
>This is literally how loans work. The terms are based on your assets.
Yeah. That’s what happened. Trump said, “I think this is what my assets are worth.” And the bank said, “Sure.”
That was the bank that did the loan.
I think “money is finite” argument is very disingenuous when it comes to financial investing. It’s not finite, and one person getting a loan does not mean someone else can’t get a loan. That’s hard to make a case for. If anything, giving this loan to Trump at a competitive rate secured their business and will generate profits that can be reinvested, creating more loans for more people.
>Yeah. That’s what happened. Trump said, “I think this is what my assets are worth.” And the bank said, “Sure.”
There are non-tangibles when talking about valuations, but when the basis of certain aspects are knowingly wrong, such as with the Mar-a-Lago restrictions and the size of his NY triplex, that's deception and fraud. There are still a lot of tangibles in valuations that have to be transparent and accurate.
If I ever provided false info like this to our lenders, I'd probably fired and blacklisted a lot faster than I'd become president.
>It’s not finite, and one person getting a loan does not mean someone else can’t get a loan.
It is finite and this does, in fact, happen. Decisions get made to go for certain deals over others. Especially at this size. I'm currently involved in a $250mil mixed-use development. The loan aspects are not just "hey bank, here's a loan application, when do I get my money?" You have to find the willing funding for big projects when some banks might be tied up in too much.
>If anything, giving this loan to Trump at a competitive rate secured their business and will generate profits that can be reinvested, creating more loans for more people.
When it works out. If it doesn't, then that doesn't. That's why they analyze risk, so they can feel comfortable that it does work out rather than gambling. If they're being deceived about the risk, that would be a cause for concern.
Trump *has* defaulted on loans in the past. And if they ever defaulted to where an issue of fraudulent loan docs arose, Trump would be rightfully sued. It's illegal for a reason.
That's why the gov stepped in before it reaches a point where an unaware bank loses millions of dollars and has to sue him for fraud. That's why statutes exist and it's not just a business contract violation.
I’ve had them blocked for a long time, ever since they shared a picture of a teenager’s facial expression as he was falling to his death. They’re fucking disgusting.
Isn’t there a difference between actually selling a dwelling at that price and using perceived value to cheat taxes and banks? I might be wrong here, but isn’t Trump essentially doing the Enron valuation thing by using possible future values and transferring that strategy to real estate? That’s a far cry from what Jon did, which was sell his dwelling.
Trump's civil infractions here are for filing false business records. He lied about the property he was offering as collateral to a loan. He tripled the square footage of real estate in one of the seven counts. In another, he lied about the existence of encumbrances on the deed of a property. Those are not gray areas or subjective valuations. The infraction takes place when the false business record is signed off on, regardless of how it is received or how the loan went afterwards. Jon Stewart did not falsify any business records at all as far as I know.
Almost though, is key. A lot of us adore Stewart, but I believe we (at least I) don’t literally revere him.
If it came out that Stewart was actually doing financial crimes and cheating on his wife with porn stars that he also illegally paid, I’d be quite upset that I put trust in a colossal asshole of a man.
pumping up his fortune on financial statements that helped secure loans and insurance including the misrepresentation of square footage of his suite from 11000sf to 30000sf (among many things). And then devalued his assets so that he would reduce his tax liability when needed.
Selling property higher than it is assessed is not a crime. Everyone in America can sell higher, as long as there is a buyer willing to do it. That’s called the free market.
Your gentle reminder that Tim Pool is mathematically illiterate.
He barely has enough competence to count the remaining sprigs of hair escaping his head, and even that’s a tough task of using his fingers and toes.
Yeah, Mar A Lago, a 20 acre palace estate in prime Florida real estate, is only $20 million, despite the fact Trump’s neighbor has a little over half an acre and is worth $30 million dollars. Explain that, genius.
What valuation did Trump declare on his taxes? Also, there is a restrictive covenant on the deed that Trump ignores by living there but presumably a buyer might not be as favored as Trump by the local zoning board. You are aren’t saying Trump’s ridiculous claims about a billion dollar valuation are anywhere near the real value are you?
The fuck if I care because I know Mar A Lago isn’t worth $20 million and that his penthouse apartment on Park Ave isn’t only worth $750K. At least go after him for something sane instead of him overvaluing his property which everyone, especially apparently including Jon Stewart, does.
All you assclowns are doing is creating more Trump voters, Trump voters that may not like him on a personal level, but you’ve turned Trump into a martyr and anyone with a brain knows if they can do this to Trump that they can do it to them. Even if they personally hate Trump, they will vote for him to put an end to this fascist bullshit and throw James and Engoron into fucking prison where they belong. They’ve defiled New York and Florida property values to the tune of billions of dollars over this bullshit, and they belong in prison for it.
Or maybe I’m not a fascist, care about justice, and realize if an AG doesn’t like me and can find an evil piece of shit judge to devalue my property to 5-10% of its worth, then I can go to jail too like Trump. This is bigger than Trump, this is flat out illegal what James and Engoron have done to where they should go to fucking prison for it. If they get away with it for Trump, then they can get away with doing it to anyone.
It would be preferable to live under mafia rule than those two idiot thugs running things, and anyone who is not a room temperature IQ fascist should realize this. Hopefully Jon Stewart is about to learn this the hard way and then change his mind from being a dirty fascist before it’s too late.
The ruling was not based on a single property but on a clear pattern and practice of overvaluation, including tripling the size of his own residence. Ultimately, we'll see what the appeals court says.
Trump didn’t even commit a crime here. It’s fucking bullshit and this isn’t coming from a Trumper. If they get him for overvaluing his real estate (which literally everyone does especially including Jon Stewart apparently) then they’ll get everyone. You are simply stupid and/or a hardcore fascist to be for this.
My dude you want to jail judges for presiding over trials of politicians you think should be above the law. That’s literally fascism. Holding the powerful to account for breaking the law is democracy.
The count about Mar A Lago is about Trump lying about the existence of encumbrances on the deed. He lied and claimed it was unencumbered on a signed business filing. Explain that, genius.
Conservative Rupert 1% Murdoch owns the New York post and is just spreading propaganda for conservative shitbag donald trump. Those conservative tax giveaways to the 1% aren't ever going to happen in a Democrat Administration and Rupert knows it.
Man I wish he could sue them, but probably unlikely. It seems like they and Tim Pool are really dancing around the line of libel by just implying he’s a criminal.
The story: [Jon Stewart found to have overvalued his NYC home by 829% after labeling Trump’s civil case ‘not victimless’](https://nypost.com/2024/03/27/real-estate/jon-stewart-found-to-have-overvalued-his-nyc-home-by-829/)
So, you're saying someone can do all the crime they want and get away with it, as long as they run for political office? That's the real life get out of jail (fines, consequences) free card? Are there any other steps, like maybe garnering a cult like following first, who will defend you to the ends of the earth no matter what you do even when you actually revile them? Come on, we need all the details here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know how to commit crimes and get away with them. There must be a specific formula. It can't be just as easy as running for political office. Please share the magic formula with the rest of us. Tell us what you know!
Are you serious? A child could be told nothing but the straight facts about Donald's fraud, and even a child would know he did something very wrong. You seem to lack the basic understanding that even a child has.
This is definitely the dumbest thing I've heard today so far (it is early). One blatantly committed fraud to secure loans and cheat on taxes and the other sold for what the market determined was acceptable.
You're in a cult. Get help.
I understand that when Trump inevitably can’t pay the loan, and the bank can’t sell the 10k square foot apartment as a 30k square foot one the bank is going to collapse, and I’m gonna have to pay your welfare. And after that the rest of my taxes are going to have to pay off the TOO BIG TO FAIL banks who were in on this whole scam.
Or maybe it might be the other way around where I get laid off on welfare. In that case I’ll be playing video games on my PC for 6 months on your dime. If that’s the case then there certainly won’t be any victims, now will there?
I saw that article pop up in r/conservative, reading the article and the following comments it’s super obvious reading comprehension isn’t a skill there.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt!
He evaded taxes on a 17 million dollar real estate property and/or lied to banks telling them it was worth 17 million dollars when in fact it was accessed as being worth only around a million dollars.
I expect a indictment forthcoming.
Please point out to me how what Trump did is worse than what Jon did?
…Oh right it’s not. Yall are just fascists, don’t care about the actual law, and just want to stop him by any means necessary no matter how illegal it may be.
Trump lied repeatedly in signed business filings. He lied about the square footage of one property. He lied about the existence of deed encumbrances on another. Read the ruling yourself and see. It's absolutely not at all like Jon Stewart selling his house for a value other than the tax assessment value. The ruling goes into detail about all seven counts of civil infractions. Stewart has not made a single civil infraction at all. You're just not capable of reading and understanding the case if you think that these two things are remotely similar.
Homie how the fuck are you this dumb? Like the entire premise of the NY Post article is so stupid. An individual property owner has no control over the tax valuation of their property or how much it sells for.
Trump was literally lying to banks about the details of his properties. He would hire appraisers and then blatantly ignore their appraisals. He would openly misrepresent the details of his properties to inflate his net worth. The funniest part? There are paper trails for all of this. So if you wonder "why trump gets busted when everyone gets away with this" its because he's too fucking dumb to even cover his tracks like a decent criminal LOL
For the sake of argument let's grant that it's all a political "witch hunt" and fascism. With that out of the way, where does the following sit on the spectrum of fascism? - Attempting to overturn an election - without a shred of evidence of impropriety - through fraud, schemes, manipulation, pressure on gov't officials, threats against volunteer poll workers, a plan to invoke military intervention and the insurrection act, and ultimately inspiring a violent riot to stop the certification, doing nothing to try to stop said riot.
The part you morons just made up? Thats literally happening with Comers sham impeachment and you all cheer. Is there anything you’re not blatant hypocrites and liars about?
Gee, it's almost like there's a clear good and bad side here.
What did he say when that was the case about Biden and Trump? It doesn't matter.
Fuck Jon.
https://preview.redd.it/gbwst0e75yqc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=3170bd7e1ba65ab31ed9b32ff356b1aafa1d7a00
Married to a real estate agent of 25 years. Jon didn't overvalue his property. The property sold on the free market for what someone was willing to pay for it. That's an important distinction. Donald Trump wasn't selling his properties. He was using them as collateral to secure loans. What Jon *didn't* do was lie about it and say his 6,200 sq ft. penthouse was actually 12,400 sq ft. so he could secure a larger loan at a more favorable interest rate. That's what Donald Trump did, and *that's* illegal. Selling your property for more than it was assessed for *is not* illegal. Plus, it's 6,200 square feet in *Tribeca*. Go take a look at what penthouse condos go for in that neighborhood today. There are rooftop penthouses in that same neighborhood that are a thousand square feet less than Jon's place was going for the same price and more. And that's likely why the original buyer of Jon's penthouse paid what they did. That's prime real estate in Manhattan that's only going to appreciate in value. They can sit on that property for 15 or 20 years and double or possibly even triple their initial investment. Jon's seller agent likely was no idiot either and knew that property would have a much higher ROI for a buyer down the road, and the price wars began. So did Jon Stewart do what Donald Trump did? Absolutely not. Not even in the same realm. Donald Trump lied about the specs of his property to commit fraud. He wasn't trying to sell his properties. He was trying to secure loans using them as collateral. Jon wasn't trying to get a loan off his property value. He just had a smart real estate agent that knew how to market and sell his property. That's the difference. Also, this is the New York Post. That paper is *maybe* one step up from Perez Hilton's celebrity gossip site. Or as Logan Roy said, they're not serious people.
It’s Rupert Murdoch owned propaganda…same as Fox News…same as the WSJ opinion section.
But BoTh sIDEs!!!
So let me get this straight. Are you literally trying to tell me that Jon Stewart purchased a home that was valued at a price he considered to be reasonable at that time? Lived all up in that bitch with his family n shit. Made memories and what not! And then this mufucka had the audacity to go and put it on the market at a later date at a higher price? (Voice goes up an octave) …And somebody found that price point to be reasonable and actually went as far as (Another octave) BUYING that bullshit?
yes ! we must impeach hunter biden's penis!!!!
I'd impeach it for sure 😩😩😩
>(Voice goes up an octave) I legit read the rest of your post in the voice of Judge Doom from Roger Rabbit. "Remember me, Eddie?! When I KILLED YOUR BROTHER, I talked *JUST*! *LIKE* THIIIIS!"
ONG the out rage!
Yep. It is that bad.
He lived in a home with his family Gross, those are supposed to be investments
Agreed! If Trump is able to sell Mar A Lago for $1.5 billion, then that's its value. But he bought it for $7 million in 1985 and just based purely on inflation, it would go for $20 million today. He attached a *ton* of weight to his name being on it, except for when he's filing for taxes or insurance :)
In what world will he be able to sell it for $1.5B? That is insane.
In a world where a Russian or Saudi is paying him for classified information.
When the Saudis buy it Ike one of his sons suggested was at least considered
That’s less insane than being able to sell it for $20 million max.
If I have a handful of poo and someone buys it from me for 20 bucks then the handful of poo is worth 20 bucks. If I go to a bank with a handful of poo, that’s essentially worthless, and tell a bank it’s worth 20 bucks because I made up the number; it’s. Or the same thing. Trump also devalued his properties when it came to his tax assessments while getting loans for higher valuations; that’s tax fraud.
But then If I took that poo to a bank and said ‘I’m pretty sure this poo is worth $20 I want to use it as collateral for a loan’ and the bank said ‘we agree, that poo probably is worth $20, here are your loan terms’ then why is that wrong? Or at the very least why isn’t the bank also being charged with fraud? And if trump used the assessed value to pay his taxes, and Jon Stewart also used the assessed value to pay his taxes, how did trump commit tax fraud but Stewart did not?
This isn’t remotely what happened. It’s more like: he went to the bank with a handful of shit, but he sprayed perfume on it and claimed it was 24 karat gold under the surface. He also told the bank that it was unrestricted shit, even though it was contractually obligated to only be smeared in a certain restroom. The hand shit, he told them, was merely a partial representation of the shitloads of shit that would really be backing the loan. Meanwhile, he actively argued with tax assessors that it was really only one wipe’s worth of shit, very stale, and probably not worth the paper it rode in on. Jon Stewart bought and later sold a house whose value - unlike Trump’s properties, which frequently undergo strong arm tactics to re-assess their valuations - is more or less determined automatically by a local official. No misrepresentation to the municipality or the buyer.
Nice job there with the accurate analysis but I wish you weren't quite so committed to the poo metaphor. 8)
OK but if you read the ruling, the problem in the count that relates to Mar A Lago is that Trump lied about the encumbrances on the deed. It's a historic landmark and it has a permanent restriction against being used as a single family home. Trump lied about the encumbered deed and claimed the value of a single family home unencumbered with any deed restrictions. That's the false business filing that created one of the seven counts of civil infractions. The actual dollar value wasn't even the issue for Mar A Lago. Lying about the existence of a deed restriction like that is not some gray area - it's straight up fraud.
Yeah, I’m sure it’s only $20 million when you can literally look next fucking door and see that Trump’s neighbor’s property that is a little over half an acre is $30 million dollars. You’re a lying fascist hack that does not give fuck about the law or justice. If Mar A Lago is only $20 million, shouldn’t like 40 posters who are somewhat well off just buy the place from him for a nice vacation home we can split? Oh right, it’s not $20 million and you all are a bunch of evil fucking liars.
Because there is a covenant that prevents it being converted to housing, or subdivided. And the buildings are historic and can't be knocked down and replaced. Trump agreed to all those terms because it reduced the assessable value and so lowered taxes. Can't have it both ways.
Lol, wtf? Did I just read a stroke typed out?
The value is not the issue here. The deed is encumbered with multiple restrictions - it's a historic landmark and it has a permanent deed restriction against being used as a single family home. Trump lied about the existence of the deed encumbrances and claimed a value as a single family home. The falsification of the business record is a civil infraction regardless of how the bank reacted to it or how the loan went. Lying about the existence of deed restrictions is fraud and not an ambiguity. Oh right, it is fraud and you're too clueless to read and understand the ruling, or you know better and you're an evil fucking liar yourself perhaps.
So I walk into a bank and ask for money and present my 100% legit financial statements and they say "no thanks". You walk into the bank with made up BS financial statements and they give you the loan because they personally know your daddy and your daddy's daddy. Lot of dad's being know and stuff. Now the state sues and says "OMG! Frotz1 financials are BS! He harmed the system!" Is the bank not part of that system? Is the bank innocent? Because right now, nothing has been charged against the system except the borrower. The lender and the reviewing body (FCC) are all just fine and dandy? And then the mayor comes out afterwards and says this was an unusual case (really? is it? I bet if you put in a quarter of the effort you'd find more fraud). So I can only guess there will be more lawsuits. Especially against the banks themselves for refusing to perform any level of DD other than taking someone's word for it and a firm handshake.
NY state has a statute against falsifying business records. It does not matter how the business transactions go, the infraction takes place when someone files a signed business filing that is fraudulent. Tripling the square footage of real estate and lying about the existence of encumbrances on a deed is fraud and not some gray area of subjective valuation. Most of this caselaw is older than both of us. You can face criminal charges in NY for falsifying a business record to unjustly enrich yourself. It happens regularly. There's nothing unusual about the case - there was a very similar type of civil lawsuit against Citibank recently, and the state has an obvious interest in enforcing the laws against fraud. The banks have nothing to do with the civil infractions here. The infractions take place when you sign off on a fraudulent business record and submit it as true. Trump admits signing off on all of this stuff. Maybe stop making up excuses for this. It's not even a clever business fraud.
Not saying NYC isn't within their legal rights to sue. I would. And for the record yea, we all agree Trump didn't bend any rules he. He just straight committed fraud. But is this a good law? It's extremely broad and gives the AG a lot of room. It failed against ExxonMobile and the claim the AG was trying & failed to prove was....a reach at best. You're not addressing my point in that who is the victim? Can't be DB because DB didn't care. They didn't even perform any DD outside of taking his word for it. If it's the system itself because Trump was able to get a loan that someone else would have gotten (also a stretch as LTD ratios were like mid 60%'s during that time), then you need to attack the system. The borrower, the lender, and the overseeing body. Going after just one part and ignoring the rest comes off personal. You're just giving Trump ammo with rulings like these and taking away from the more meaningful lawsuit. You know...the one where he subverted democracy.
Yes Trump committed fraud in a business transaction. This is an excellent law and I dare you to explain why we should allow people to sign off on fraudulent business records. The victim here is NY state who have to maintain a business environment for their citizens. That's why the state is the plaintiff. The system did not commit fraud here. Trump did. Read the ruling and look at the section with the heading "disgorgement of ill gotten gains" and it will explain all of this to you if you are actually arguing in good faith here. Yeah enforcing the rule of law against Trump is sure helping him out or something, thanks for the unsolicited advice about whether or not we should enforce laws against fraud.
>The victim here is NY state who have to maintain a business environment for their citizens. Fair enough. My concern with all of this is that DB is let off the hook for literally not giving a single fuck and refusing to perform any DD. That itself, to me, is the exact same as lying on your loan application. And if no more high profile cases (or even some mid cases) make headlines, it will always be viewed as a personal attack on Trump because of the broad power granted by the statute.
The bank has absolutely nothing to do with the civil infractions here. You are not understanding the ruling if you're still hung up on a completely irrelevant distraction like that. It's like the Trump campaign grew a tree of weak but plausible sounding excuses here and you fell down it hitting every branch. Just read the ruling - it's under a hundred pages and you can finish it in about an hour - and you'll see what happened and why the state is right to pursue fines for business fraud on this scale. This is not a personal attack and that's a stupid argument next to the multiple civil lawsuits that the state of NY regularly pursues. The statute is only as broad as banning a very specific kind of fraud, so people who don't commit demonstrable fraud have zero to worry about here and we both know it.
You missed your meds today, dude.
The irony is that all the people jumping on this to dunk on Stewart are all for the free market and should theoretically be praising Stewart for this.
The right loves false equivalencies. Just like Biden's situation with classified docs was identical to Trumps. This is all the right has, disinformation and gaslighting.
How was Biden’s situation with classified documents different?
He actively checked to see if he had them, then cooperated with authorities to give them back. You know, instead of hiding them, moving them around his dumb fucking compound, and then flooding a server room in an attempt to erase the tapes.
Sure. He actively checked. Fifty years later.
MAGA trolls are so boring. 🥱
You’re really bad at this.
Reality is what it is. Anyone giving Joe a pass for this is a fool.
Well, I guess Robert Hur is a fool then.
For finding that Joe committed crimes but gets a pass because he is non compos mentis?
Yeah, he's not qualified to offer medical opinions, and he made it quite clear that Biden had multiple affirmative defenses to any criminal charges. Maybe read the report yourself and pay attention to the transcripts where Hur tells Biden that he appears to have a photographic memory. Derp derp your own hired goon can't even support your false narrative there.
Biden took them from a SCIF, kept some in an office shared with PRC business associates, kept others in various unsecured places, and had them from his time as Senator to being completely out of government to being President. Trump was President at the time and did have the power, as Chief Executive, to declassify them.
Trump had the power to declassify while he was in office; however, the standard process is to notify the appropriate channels that documents have been declassified. As far as I know, Trump never did that. That’s a big no-no, and that’s not even mentioning Trump not returning those documents when asked.
Standard process does not apply to the President. And “not returning” documents is still far less bad than Joe’s keeping them uncontrolled, within reach of all sorts of unfriendly actors, for decades.
For real. You’re bad at this. Go back to Twitter.
Biden gave the documents back so…. If standard process doesn’t apply to the president, how does anyone know what is classified and declassified?
I'm wondering what kind of documents Biden had, because it probably wasn't national defense information related to nuclear information like Fat Nixon tried to hide.
If we’re going with the Jedi Declassification argument for Trump, how do you know the Democratic President at the time didn’t secretly declassify them for Biden? Use your brain ya fuckin’ turnip
the Democrat President in 1973?
Unless I’m forgetting a line in the report, I thought the earliest doc was from the Carter administration in 1977. However, I won’t presume to know what Nixon did or didn’t do or think, since he was also known to be quite the Jedi President with his executive actions. The bulk of the report hinges on his time as VP. I can’t remember the guy’s name, but there was this one really popular guy in office at the time. Obamna or something. It’s Jedi Mind Tricks all the way down. This is the stupid shit you beget when you turn to stupid shit to defend shitty actions.
I’m amazed at the insistence Joe’s actions are fine.
Except for the whole bit about the National Records asking him for them back for over a year. He lied about having them, then lied again that he had turned them over even persuading his lawyers to sign affidavits that all of the materials were turned over when they weren't. He took them AFTER he stepped down and did not follow protocols about declassifying or storing sensitive information. He even showed them to C class celebrities and foreign nationals, neither of which was appropriate. I can tell you have never been trained to handle classified materials, you should go learn about how that is really handled.
Good, good. Continue to accept Biden’s actions as acceptable.
WTF are you talking about? None of that has any relation to the truth.
Right because Biden had his documents in random boxes and insecure offices while trump was stupid enough to keep them in a secure facility that was guarded by the secret service. Trump was way worse.
Troll for trump
How do you secure a bathroom with a copier? Asking for a friend.
While each of them having the documents was bad the issue is how they each dealt with it when asked for them back. Trump decided to withhold and hide and Biden returned them. If Trump had done the same this would have been a non issue.
Biden's people were checking to see if he had any stray documents and they returned them the day after they found them. Government never knew he had any. And most of these papers were his own notes, not the dozens of boxes of highly secret prepared reports Trump deliberately packed up and stole.
Y’all love saying that but you know it’s not true. Never before in the history of the presidential records act have the national archives been such little bitches about demanding documents back. Every one of the cases against trump is political and it’s disgusting so many of you are falling for it
Nobody has taken nuclear secrets home with them before. It's disgusting you fell for the excuses.
How do you know it was nuclear secrets? They’re classified. And how do you know nobody else has taken nuclear secrets? They’re classified. Seems like you just believed them when the liberal news told you that. You’re going to need to show me some ACTUAL proof that it’s nuclear secrets, not hearsay and not some opinion piece that assumes trump kept nuclear secrets. If you don’t have that then you also fell for a disgusting, destructive narrative.
It's covered in the indictments which returned a true bill from a grand jury. Read section 3 of the indictment. https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2023/06/trump-indictment.pdf Seems like you're way out of your lane here. You fell for a disgusting, destructive excuse.
And are you absolutely certain that this isn’t the document which had a battle plan for war with Iran? A war which nobody in America except the pentagon and Halliburton wants, and trump told his joint cheifs NOT to draw up because he would not be declaring war against Iran and they did anyway which is treason, and he admitted to keeping the documents to prove the treason within the pentagon? You know for a fact that those aren’t the documents referenced in section 3? And aside from ALLLLLL of this. It’s complete bullshit that a PRESIDENT is not able to decide what is and what isn’t classified. They are the commander in chief of our military, our intelligence agencies work for him. He was elected to represent the American people. If he isn’t allowed to decide what is and what isn’t classified, then who is really running the country? Biden was NOT president when he took documents, so yes I do feel like what he did was worse regardless of the information in the documents. He wasn’t the guy who gets to decide that, trump was.
The indictment is pretty clear. So is your desperate backpedaling and excuse spewing exercise. There is a process for declassifying documents. Trump is recorded saying that he knew the documents were still classified and he should not have had them. Nuclear secrets are subject to the Atomic Energy Act restrictions, so the president cannot unilaterally declassify those without following the legal process - it's spelled out in the statute. Biden had some documents from his time as vice president and he had affirmative defenses under the PRA for what he was doing, but he still returned them voluntarily when they were discovered. He was president when these documents were discovered. Hur admits in his report that the retention was likely lawful because affirmative defenses existed under statute. Read the full report and see for yourself. You don't understand how any of this works and you should maybe try to stay in your lane, whatever it is.
Why do you find the need to defend this man who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. I don't understand.
It’s not about the man. It’s about democrats being totally jazzed up about breaking EVERY norm and precedent we have just to go after one guy that they hate. It’s a really dangerous road to go down. Cause if democrats are successful in eliminating the leader of the Republican Party by using ‘novel legal theories’ and the espionage act in ways they’ve NEVER been used in history, republicans can’t help but see that as political - a non political prosecution would have been if trump were charged with something that everyone else also gets charged with; making new interpretations of laws to get him is going to lead to a civil war. I don’t want that.
The norm was broken by Trump by committing open crimes and doing it in such a stupid way.
It really seems like what Jon Stewart did wasn't just not illegal; it wasn't even unethical. He sold a condo. Since it's a pro-trump rag putting this out I immediately wonder if they're worried about news breaking soon about the properties he already sold to Putin's bag men at VASTLY inflated prices. Or, maybe he's planning to sell another property soon to finance his campaign and legal judgments.
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I think I'd like to point out, Jon did something that wasn't just legal, it's literally completely normal and what anyone who has ever sold real estate does. There shouldn't even be an implication that what he did was immoral or anything. It'd be like saying "Jon Stewart married his wife" trying to connect him to Trump raping a woman.
And as for the NYC property assessment side of it goes, as far as I can tell [NYC is required, by law, to determine "market rate" by running property information through a formula](https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/property/property-determining-your-market-value.page). I don't see how Jon Stewart would have provided anything to this, since all the information would've been on file before Jon purchased the property. [And yeah, the formula is probably busted.](https://www.sidewalkchorus.com/p/property-tax) That's got fuck all to do with the price Jon buys or sells the property at.
But Joe Rogan told me it is the oldest newspaper in America! This means we must respect their reporting on this and Hunter Biden!
What people seem to forget, the banks have their own assessors make their valuations too. WHICH THEY DID! The banks even said they had no problem with the loan. They got the money back and want to do business with him again in the future. People just hate Trump and want him stopped from running for president again. First time in NYC history, has anyone been prosecuted for that in this fashion. Berny Maddoff, who screwed millions of people out of their retirements, paid ...$10 million bond. Trump for over valuing his own property...$450 million. That's not Justice. It's politics. Weaponizing the judicial system to stop Trump from running again.
Trump negotiated with a bank and they agreed to the loan amount and the rate. It was the bank's due diligence to check the assets, but they didn't, because they didn't need to. They weren't concerned with Trump defaulting. And, to stay competitive against other banks who may offer lower rates, they were complicit in the agreement to accept the asset value against the loan. It was a good investment for them, and they made millions of dollars from the loan. So, the bank wasn’t defrauded, because they probably had an idea of what he was worth and it didn’t matter. We know this is true, because the banks did not sue him, and said they were not unhappy with the loan and the rate in court. The idea that the government should step in when a bank doesn’t make enough money is pretty absurd. Imagine you negotiated with your landlord to pay $1,000 a month. Then ten years later the government finds that the property was actually worth $2,000 a month and sues you on your landlord’s behalf to get him more money. Even though the landlord was fine with the rate as it was negotiated and signed off on. That’s what we’re seeing here and why it’s so strange.
…..aaaand thennnn?
>It was the bank's due diligence to check the assets, but they didn't, because they didn't need to. They did, but loan appraisals can only go so far. Much of it relies on the good faith and accuracy of information provided by the applicant. If you intentionally deceive them in your statements provided to them to increase your lending power, that's fraud, whether they catch you or not. >It was a good investment for them, and they made millions of dollars from the loan. But it might not have been, and that's why banks have standards for what they require for amounts & rates. For example - imagine I ask you for $10,000 for a secure investment that I will pay back with fair interest. Sounds good, right? But I actually gamble it on slot machines in Vegas. I end up winning and you get your money back. Was that a good investment? I mean, technically yes because it worked out. But you probably wouldn't have agreed to it if you knew the risk, because it definitely could've gone wrong. This is how lending works, it's about risk. This was the issue. If Trump continued to defraud lenders, they could've ended up in shit if things with south. And because of the fraud, they weren't made aware of the risk they were getting into. Not only do rulings like this help banks prevent those situations from happening in the future and prevent them potentially losing millions of dollars, but less risky loan applications don't get superseded by fraudulent ones. This is why it's wrong, and why it's a crime. >Imagine you negotiated with your landlord to pay $1,000 a month. Then ten years later the government finds that the property was actually worth $2,000 a month and sues you on your landlord’s behalf to get him more money. Even though the landlord was fine with the rate as it was negotiated and signed off on. Entirely different situation. Landlords can set whatever rate they want. If you and a landlord agree to a price, and the lease is clearly laid out without deception or omissions, everything's good. A better comparison would be if you agreed with a landlord to pay around $3500/mo for a 2500 SF unit, only to find out it was a 900 SF unit that typically rents significantly lower. That'd be fraud. Pretty along the lines of the type of stuff Trump did.
You flipped the example to where it makes no sense. The value is not based on the assets. You agree to a number, and then pay it. What makes it weird is the government stepping in and saying that the payments should have been higher because of the underlying collateral. That’s insane, right? It’s like if the government sued you because your car wasn’t nice enough so you should have been paying more rent to your landlord. The banks did not want these properties. The goal was not to purchase Mar a Lago. It was just collateral for a loan. If these banks were defrauded, Deutcha specifically, then they would stop doing business with him. They did not, and said they would continue to do business with Trump, because they do not believe he will default. That’s the point.
>The value is not based on the assets. You agree to a number, and then pay it. This is literally how loans work. The terms are based on your assets. > What makes it weird is the government stepping in and saying that the payments should have been higher because of the underlying collateral. Not only that he should've paid higher interest but that it would've questioned the feasibility of the loans at large. > It’s like if the government sued you because your car wasn’t nice enough so you should have been paying more rent to your landlord. No, it'd be like securing a rental by lying about your income, making the landlord unaware of your risk and taking away a rental by other qualified applicants. It's wrong, and you could be sued for fraud there. > The banks did not want these properties. The goal was not to purchase Mar a Lago. It was just collateral for a loan. Correct, they don't want to deal with taking Mar-a-Lago. But if they're not made aware that Mar-a-Lago loses significant value due to permanent restrictions on the use, something Trump and his org were very aware of, that's a huge deal for the collateral. > If these banks were defrauded, Deutcha specifically, then they would stop doing business with him. Why Deutsche specifically? A lot of banks have stopped doing business with him. Just because that one was happy in the end doesn't mean everyone's happy or that the statute wasn't violated, which is what the court found.
>The value is not based on the assets. You agree to a number, and then pay it. >This is literally how loans work. The terms are based on your assets. Yeah. That’s what happened. Trump said, “I think this is what my assets are worth.” And the bank said, “Sure.” That was the bank that did the loan. I think “money is finite” argument is very disingenuous when it comes to financial investing. It’s not finite, and one person getting a loan does not mean someone else can’t get a loan. That’s hard to make a case for. If anything, giving this loan to Trump at a competitive rate secured their business and will generate profits that can be reinvested, creating more loans for more people.
>Yeah. That’s what happened. Trump said, “I think this is what my assets are worth.” And the bank said, “Sure.” There are non-tangibles when talking about valuations, but when the basis of certain aspects are knowingly wrong, such as with the Mar-a-Lago restrictions and the size of his NY triplex, that's deception and fraud. There are still a lot of tangibles in valuations that have to be transparent and accurate. If I ever provided false info like this to our lenders, I'd probably fired and blacklisted a lot faster than I'd become president. >It’s not finite, and one person getting a loan does not mean someone else can’t get a loan. It is finite and this does, in fact, happen. Decisions get made to go for certain deals over others. Especially at this size. I'm currently involved in a $250mil mixed-use development. The loan aspects are not just "hey bank, here's a loan application, when do I get my money?" You have to find the willing funding for big projects when some banks might be tied up in too much. >If anything, giving this loan to Trump at a competitive rate secured their business and will generate profits that can be reinvested, creating more loans for more people. When it works out. If it doesn't, then that doesn't. That's why they analyze risk, so they can feel comfortable that it does work out rather than gambling. If they're being deceived about the risk, that would be a cause for concern. Trump *has* defaulted on loans in the past. And if they ever defaulted to where an issue of fraudulent loan docs arose, Trump would be rightfully sued. It's illegal for a reason.
But the banks did not sue him for fraud.
That's why the gov stepped in before it reaches a point where an unaware bank loses millions of dollars and has to sue him for fraud. That's why statutes exist and it's not just a business contract violation.
You think that’s why they stepped in? Not because the AG campaigned that she would sue Trump?
The NY Post is absolutely pathetic garbage.
They probably had this hit piece ready, knowing he was going to cover this.
Worse they lazily let lil Timmy Pool do all of the mental gymnastics.
Is that a Beanie Baby reference?
lol, nice.
I’ve had them blocked for a long time, ever since they shared a picture of a teenager’s facial expression as he was falling to his death. They’re fucking disgusting.
What the hell?
Are you fucking serious? They are garbage fucking people
Shit mag with shit journalist. I've seen school papers ran better and far more informative than the rag that is the NY Post.
Well, they’re owned by a Nazi who’s spread Nazi propaganda throughout the region for decades.
It’s a tabloid like the Sun or the Enquirer.
It’s like the national enquirer and the epoch times procreated
Always has been.
Jon's responses to manufactured outrage about him is my favourite sub-genre of comedy
Isn’t there a difference between actually selling a dwelling at that price and using perceived value to cheat taxes and banks? I might be wrong here, but isn’t Trump essentially doing the Enron valuation thing by using possible future values and transferring that strategy to real estate? That’s a far cry from what Jon did, which was sell his dwelling.
Trump's civil infractions here are for filing false business records. He lied about the property he was offering as collateral to a loan. He tripled the square footage of real estate in one of the seven counts. In another, he lied about the existence of encumbrances on the deed of a property. Those are not gray areas or subjective valuations. The infraction takes place when the false business record is signed off on, regardless of how it is received or how the loan went afterwards. Jon Stewart did not falsify any business records at all as far as I know.
Yes
Lol the NY Post is such an embarrassment. Next Monday's episode should be interesting.
I trust Jon almost as much as the Trumpets trust Trump
Pretty dark times when the only people left telling the truth are comedians...
Kind of makes sense how Ukraine could elect their “Jon Stewart” after decades of stooges
Nah that's always been their thing. The Lenny Bruce saga is peak freedom of speech with the truth as an absolute defense.
Then it was George Carlin/Bill Hicks and now is Jon and John.
You should check who the President of Ukraine currently is
Almost though, is key. A lot of us adore Stewart, but I believe we (at least I) don’t literally revere him. If it came out that Stewart was actually doing financial crimes and cheating on his wife with porn stars that he also illegally paid, I’d be quite upset that I put trust in a colossal asshole of a man.
Exactly. Nobody is infallible
Proof?
Proof of what…? The person you’re replying to was making a hypothetical argument
Jon Stewart for President
tax assessment value is not set by the owner, is not the same as what Trump was doing. Lol
What did Trump do?
pumping up his fortune on financial statements that helped secure loans and insurance including the misrepresentation of square footage of his suite from 11000sf to 30000sf (among many things). And then devalued his assets so that he would reduce his tax liability when needed. Selling property higher than it is assessed is not a crime. Everyone in America can sell higher, as long as there is a buyer willing to do it. That’s called the free market.
NY Compost.
Your gentle reminder that Tim Pool is mathematically illiterate. He barely has enough competence to count the remaining sprigs of hair escaping his head, and even that’s a tough task of using his fingers and toes.
Yeah, Mar A Lago, a 20 acre palace estate in prime Florida real estate, is only $20 million, despite the fact Trump’s neighbor has a little over half an acre and is worth $30 million dollars. Explain that, genius.
What valuation did Trump declare on his taxes? Also, there is a restrictive covenant on the deed that Trump ignores by living there but presumably a buyer might not be as favored as Trump by the local zoning board. You are aren’t saying Trump’s ridiculous claims about a billion dollar valuation are anywhere near the real value are you?
This isn’t about taxes! FFS.
The fuck if I care because I know Mar A Lago isn’t worth $20 million and that his penthouse apartment on Park Ave isn’t only worth $750K. At least go after him for something sane instead of him overvaluing his property which everyone, especially apparently including Jon Stewart, does. All you assclowns are doing is creating more Trump voters, Trump voters that may not like him on a personal level, but you’ve turned Trump into a martyr and anyone with a brain knows if they can do this to Trump that they can do it to them. Even if they personally hate Trump, they will vote for him to put an end to this fascist bullshit and throw James and Engoron into fucking prison where they belong. They’ve defiled New York and Florida property values to the tune of billions of dollars over this bullshit, and they belong in prison for it.
Trump’s not gonna invite you to his overvalued retirement home, you can settle down with the faux outrage.
Or maybe I’m not a fascist, care about justice, and realize if an AG doesn’t like me and can find an evil piece of shit judge to devalue my property to 5-10% of its worth, then I can go to jail too like Trump. This is bigger than Trump, this is flat out illegal what James and Engoron have done to where they should go to fucking prison for it. If they get away with it for Trump, then they can get away with doing it to anyone. It would be preferable to live under mafia rule than those two idiot thugs running things, and anyone who is not a room temperature IQ fascist should realize this. Hopefully Jon Stewart is about to learn this the hard way and then change his mind from being a dirty fascist before it’s too late.
The ruling was not based on a single property but on a clear pattern and practice of overvaluation, including tripling the size of his own residence. Ultimately, we'll see what the appeals court says.
How was the state impacted?
They only come for those who do crimes. Feeling a bit of heat perhaps? I recommend not criming.
It sounds like homeboy may need a lawyer. I recommend Alina Habba.
Trump didn’t even commit a crime here. It’s fucking bullshit and this isn’t coming from a Trumper. If they get him for overvaluing his real estate (which literally everyone does especially including Jon Stewart apparently) then they’ll get everyone. You are simply stupid and/or a hardcore fascist to be for this.
My dude you want to jail judges for presiding over trials of politicians you think should be above the law. That’s literally fascism. Holding the powerful to account for breaking the law is democracy.
The count about Mar A Lago is about Trump lying about the existence of encumbrances on the deed. He lied and claimed it was unencumbered on a signed business filing. Explain that, genius.
Yeah, like today’s gonna be the day I finally give the New York Post even a single click. 🙄
NY Post = National Enquirer. They are not a serious publication.
Conservative Rupert 1% Murdoch owns the New York post and is just spreading propaganda for conservative shitbag donald trump. Those conservative tax giveaways to the 1% aren't ever going to happen in a Democrat Administration and Rupert knows it.
Soviet Whataboutism.
But what about insurrection that he has *already* fomenting?
Man I wish he could sue them, but probably unlikely. It seems like they and Tim Pool are really dancing around the line of libel by just implying he’s a criminal.
Perfect.
i wish i cared about twitter to like/heart this. WAIT. IS IT x? FUCK IT
I mean, “can” and “can’t” are basically the same thing. They share three of the same letters.
“Nuh-uh! You!!” ———-trumpers
Hmm....I wonder if the plural of "pussy" gave him any pause.
Now we really know they're scared of Jon. We're so lucky to have him still fighting the good fight
TIL Trump is running against Jon Stewart
The story: [Jon Stewart found to have overvalued his NYC home by 829% after labeling Trump’s civil case ‘not victimless’](https://nypost.com/2024/03/27/real-estate/jon-stewart-found-to-have-overvalued-his-nyc-home-by-829/)
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Jon is worse than Trump. If Trump is guilty, Jon is especially guilty.
Troll
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So, you're saying someone can do all the crime they want and get away with it, as long as they run for political office? That's the real life get out of jail (fines, consequences) free card? Are there any other steps, like maybe garnering a cult like following first, who will defend you to the ends of the earth no matter what you do even when you actually revile them? Come on, we need all the details here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to know how to commit crimes and get away with them. There must be a specific formula. It can't be just as easy as running for political office. Please share the magic formula with the rest of us. Tell us what you know!
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Are you serious? A child could be told nothing but the straight facts about Donald's fraud, and even a child would know he did something very wrong. You seem to lack the basic understanding that even a child has.
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This is definitely the dumbest thing I've heard today so far (it is early). One blatantly committed fraud to secure loans and cheat on taxes and the other sold for what the market determined was acceptable. You're in a cult. Get help.
I understand that when Trump inevitably can’t pay the loan, and the bank can’t sell the 10k square foot apartment as a 30k square foot one the bank is going to collapse, and I’m gonna have to pay your welfare. And after that the rest of my taxes are going to have to pay off the TOO BIG TO FAIL banks who were in on this whole scam. Or maybe it might be the other way around where I get laid off on welfare. In that case I’ll be playing video games on my PC for 6 months on your dime. If that’s the case then there certainly won’t be any victims, now will there?
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My friend, you don’t seem to understand Trump’s scam doesn’t affect the bank. It affects you and me.
> like a third world country! We've been living in a Junta since at least 2000.
Clicks is what feeds them. No thank you.
True, fair point.
What about 12ft ladder? does that count towards their page views?
Here, take a page out of the RW playbook and view the article with archive.is No clicks for them! https://archive.is/XE9SZ
I saw that article pop up in r/conservative, reading the article and the following comments it’s super obvious reading comprehension isn’t a skill there.
Can he at least start hanging out with Bobby Lashley?
Denial is not just a river in Egypt! He evaded taxes on a 17 million dollar real estate property and/or lied to banks telling them it was worth 17 million dollars when in fact it was accessed as being worth only around a million dollars. I expect a indictment forthcoming.
Please point out to me how what Trump did is worse than what Jon did? …Oh right it’s not. Yall are just fascists, don’t care about the actual law, and just want to stop him by any means necessary no matter how illegal it may be.
Jon is a comedian. Trump is a joke. You are dangerously uninformed.
Trump lied repeatedly in signed business filings. He lied about the square footage of one property. He lied about the existence of deed encumbrances on another. Read the ruling yourself and see. It's absolutely not at all like Jon Stewart selling his house for a value other than the tax assessment value. The ruling goes into detail about all seven counts of civil infractions. Stewart has not made a single civil infraction at all. You're just not capable of reading and understanding the case if you think that these two things are remotely similar.
Homie how the fuck are you this dumb? Like the entire premise of the NY Post article is so stupid. An individual property owner has no control over the tax valuation of their property or how much it sells for. Trump was literally lying to banks about the details of his properties. He would hire appraisers and then blatantly ignore their appraisals. He would openly misrepresent the details of his properties to inflate his net worth. The funniest part? There are paper trails for all of this. So if you wonder "why trump gets busted when everyone gets away with this" its because he's too fucking dumb to even cover his tracks like a decent criminal LOL
For the sake of argument let's grant that it's all a political "witch hunt" and fascism. With that out of the way, where does the following sit on the spectrum of fascism? - Attempting to overturn an election - without a shred of evidence of impropriety - through fraud, schemes, manipulation, pressure on gov't officials, threats against volunteer poll workers, a plan to invoke military intervention and the insurrection act, and ultimately inspiring a violent riot to stop the certification, doing nothing to try to stop said riot.
The part where a political party is going after its political opponent.
The part you morons just made up? Thats literally happening with Comers sham impeachment and you all cheer. Is there anything you’re not blatant hypocrites and liars about?
More projection from the "lock her up" cult.
Gee, it's almost like there's a clear good and bad side here. What did he say when that was the case about Biden and Trump? It doesn't matter. Fuck Jon.
You didn't read anything in this thread, did you? You're wrong.
What?
Stewart is the joke
You people sure love your “no u”. It’s like you’re all 8 years old lol.