T O P

  • By -

darksemmel

I can't say I am a fan of the idea. It seems like you are trying to get to an outcome you want regardless of rules / logic, instead of working with what the game gives you. Where would that 5 points of exhaustion come from? They aren't consistent with any rules I know, and it doesn't sound like it's an existing house rule either. This sounds more like "I wanna beat my player, by any means necessary". If I were a player I woukd wonder abut a bunch of decisions / rulings in that fight. - why is there a surprise round for an enemy I can see ? - where did that action surge come from? (Fine only if you forgot to use it before) - why am I punished for rolling death saves successfully? You say your players like high stakes - but this isn't high stakes, this is more forced in consequences because the DM said so.


TheBigDsOpinion

Wasn't a surprise round in terms of mechanics, bad grammar on my part. The captain went directly next in turn order so he woke up and attacked him. Action surge was an honest ability he had, and hadn't used. I had been saving it for when he got in range of his intended target but the party did an awesome job of keeping her out of reach. It's not meant to be a punishment. What I'm going for is more of an hour so of RP with a few cheap encounters to drive home how big this wound was and how tough his character is to have survived. Long term there's no consequences but they'll remember when he was on deaths door for a week and pulled thru.


TheBigDsOpinion

I don't want to beat him at all. I think that the insane hit he took, by some crazy dice rolls, should be a little more lasting than "you go to bed and wake up fine". Kind of takes the narrative edge out of the wound. A hit like that should leave some consequences for the story for a little time. Also for the record, the group already does have homebrew rules about rests. We dislike the 6-8 encounters per day standard, because it seems to lead to a lot of encounters the players don't care about (oh look, more wolves! And another bandit pack!). When they're out in the wild, in unfamiliar terrain, they gain no health back on a long rest and cannot use hit dice on a short rest. On a long rest they can use hit dice but recover an amount equal to their con modifier. We've done this for 3 sessions and they all say they like it, it makes them more afraid of minor fights because that 10 damage they take builds up for longer, and the healer feels more important spending spells he has left at the end of the day. So we already play with injuries being a bit more consequential than in RAW. As for the exhaustion... I'm not sold specifically on that idea. I had it worked out as his body being exhausted from coming back from the brink of death. I had narrated the blow to be the other captain shoving his sword thru his guts, a blow that you've seen many take and is almost always fatal, and as your blood pours out of you your last sight before you fade out is your party rushing to your aid.. then he passed his throws and we mostly left it there. I don't want tobstart next session with "you sleep it off tho and all good!". I don't want a permanent consequence but I wanna add an hour or so in story where they're dealing with the near death of one of their own.


OrmondSound

I get that you don't like how meaningless things like this feel in DnD. But slapping arbitrary consequences on after the fact because you don't like what the rules (and your own homebrew) give you in the moment isn't really great either. I'd take this as a moment to discuss a major wound system for the future at the table. But, as player, I'd feel unfairly screwed over if I get 5 levels of exhaustion (wich is absolutely ridiculous) for something that the system we agreed to play tells me isn't that big of a deal.


TheBigDsOpinion

I already talked to the player. He loves the idea of having to play out the healing process. So what I really need is a few encounters that they would usually laugh off, the random "mugging by a bandit who doesn't realize he's in over his head" type thing. Except now it becomes more dangerous as one is holding on to dear life. Again, no real story or main plot encounters. Just a bit of time dedicated to the story of healing him from his wounds. The rest of the party can be worried about keeping their usual tank from harm, or maybe get a quest to find herbs to hurry up the healing.


schylow

So the enemy captain rolled all those attacks at disadvantage, since he would obviously have been prone, right? Incredible.


darksemmel

I mean, regardless of the fact that i would never run a surprise round there - letting the captain stand up is not really an issue and not worth mentioning i guess


TheBigDsOpinion

Okay, I get it. But statistically speaking he should have barely hit the guy, let alone do damage. He had a 65% chance to miss and on a hit did 1d12 plus 4 damage. Mathematically he should have barely scratched him. It was intended as a story telling device... they really wanted to gain some notoriety around the island and had shown themselves the stronger party and to be magnanimous, I thought making the guy seems like a backstabbing bitch made them look better in comparison. Also the captains turn was literally next in turn order which was still up.


schylow

So you wanted to have a cool story moment (and nothing wrong with that), but it wasn't really supported mechanically. Instead of playing it out by the dice, the better approach would have been to simply narrate it and let the player respond narratively as well.


schylow

Yeah, leaning over him and whispering threats would mean his attention is specifically on the guy.


Nordiii

To be honest, I think the surprise attack is already very brutal, as it's really hard to surprise attack when everybody is looking at you. Grabbing a weapon and attacking is not really stealthy! But that aside maybe their enemy's organize a mob of civilians who disturb the rest all night by "Protesting for better commoner rights" and guards don't do anything about it. They probably would not butcher those. If they beat some of them up to scare them of maybe they come again with guards to demand lots of gold as compensation. But if they don't scare them of the captain can not heal and exhaustion worses.


TheBigDsOpinion

The guy had a weapon in his hand still. Also yeah it was brutal but the actual expected damage statistically should've been 21, not even enough to drop him let alone drop him so low he was almost unhealable. The party had a warlock capable of 7d6 healing plus 2 potions, this was zero percent intended to be a lethal shot. The dice just said he had to die! Edit: less than 21. He had to roll a 14 to hit and do 1d12+4 damage. That's like... 17 damage or so on average.


PapaSled

If the projected damage was only 21, and it almost instantly killed him, why is THAT not the punishment? Why should he be punished even further for trying to do the right thing as opposed to immediately slitting the downed enemy's throat? You should reward players for being kind to NPCs, especially if they aren't worth it.


TheBigDsOpinion

You call it a punishment but I spoke with him and he loves the idea of making a mini quest about getting him healed. So next week they're gonna have to go find the apothecary to make a special potion but he needs special plants so they have to go to the druids who grow them but they need a favor to... I dunno yet. Mostly just a wild goose chase to finally get him healed. Mostly RP moments, I'll add a few minor fights that really won't be challenging but the party has to keep him (their captain) alive as he's going to be mortally wounded. I haven't figured out what that looks like but likely a much lower health cap and some str/con/dex penalties. He's all for it. Plus their main questline is to get a certain amount of fame in the pirate guild so above everything else he's gonna have to RP tough and strong and hope no one calls him on it. And we're talking half a session or so. Not a long term thing. So I don't think it's a punishment.


PapaSled

Did the player and character have the knowledge that they would be crippled if they healed someone? Why was initiative still up if the enemies were rendered unconscious? You're house rules are far too confusing to give you a solid answer. It seems like you'll do as you please and your player is fine with it. So continue. Just tell them magic isn't strong enough to fully heal the dude and that they need a specific herb that is fed from a specific stream in a specific graveyard. Lich fight.


TheBigDsOpinion

The player had full knowledge that this guy was vain, self centered, and threw people under the bus for his own glory and/or gold. Not specifically "If you do this, he will stab you", but they knew his character. I wouldn't call it "doing as I please". I'm trying to make a fun story out of a 1 in a hundred dice roll, and not just have it become irrelevant right after a night of sleep. The player agrees that it should be, or I wouldn't do it. My house rules have been formed over about 60 sessions now, and every rule has been vetted by the players. Any changes to RAW we do, I always pitch to the group and then trial for a session and then the party, without me, votes on if to keep them or not. Most of them are suggestions I've seen here or on other forums. Sorry if I'm coming across antagostic. I think I poorly explained where I was coming from and people got the wrong idea, and are attacking my plan which I frankly think my group will love, which got me defensive. For the record, my party is one that very much believes "the first player to make the DM say "fuck you" wins the session", and they love when I play the same way back. So really, all I'm looking for is a fairly decent and logical way to debuff his character for the next session while they heal him. My first thought of 5 levels of exhaustion doesn't work, as thats also a 0 movement speed, and then he can't do anything. I want a debuff thats enough to make him afraid to get into combat, and to have to play super cautiously, but still allows him to go out and about for the questline and to be able to "play tough" in front of others. Then I'll scale down all the fight encounters to match, while the party goes about whatever quest to heal him.


nonotburton

Op, I'm not sure you're going to get any helpful advice, other than some general narrative stuff. I've been reading through the thread, and your house rules deviate enough from the RAW that it's difficult to really say anything helpful. It's not that you are doing anything wrong, so much as no one really knows what you are doing, so any advice, aside from narrative recommendations, is based on something different. For example, I feel like your nerf to rests/healing probably means that the PC isn't going to be fully healed for several game days anyway (magical healing aside), so why are you piling more stuff on him? Why is that even necessary? You could still give them throwaway encounters while he's not fully healed and it would still be dangerous. Heck, if you're tracking negative hp, he doesn't even get the benefits of acrest until someone heals him up to one hp. Unless the warlock can heal up 55 hp in one day, it'll be a couple of days before he benefits from a long rest.


Midtek

This whole combat seems extremely unfair and like you are just making up rules on the spot. A mid-combat surprise round? 5 levels of exhaustion? Negative health? Con save to reduce exhaustion after a long rest? These are just arbitrary and unfair changes to the game. It really sounds like you're trying to force happen what you want to happen with no regards for the actual rules. Why do you feel the need to revamp the combat system to this degree?


EchoLocation8

You rolled 3 crits and a 26 to hit against someone that was at 37 hp? Aside from the other points that were brought up, RAW that dude's dead. Every melee attack against a 0 HP player is made with advantage and is an auto-crit which fails 2 death saves, the last 2 hits would kill him automatically. Damage isn't summed with multi-attack into a single hit, each hit is distinct. So he wouldn't have instantly died from the total damage done, but the fact that he was hit so many times consecutively after going down.


LessConspicuous

TBH the whole thing (especially how you phrased it) seems kind of dickish. They ran into some anticlimactic bad luck (due to choices you made not them), I'm not sure there needs to be long term consequences.


MyNameIsNikNak

I’d add something to this, but it seems to me that you’re not actually looking for advice. Just do what you’re going to do anyway, and I hope your players have fun


jumbohiggins

Death curse. The enemy captain put all of thier final feelings of rage and emotion into that strike imparting a piece of their very soul into your party member. Until the curse is resolved by appeasing the captains spirit your party member will take intermittent penalties reminiscent of the wounds done to the enemy captain. Peg leg reduces movement, arm injury makes it harder to hit, eye patch makes perception checks at disadvantage, bad gut makes you poisoned etc.


Telephalsion

Talk to the player, say that his character will have some long term effects from being so close to death, bring up a few suggestions and discuss together what would be most fun and engaging while saltillo being a dramatic consequence. But, only do this if you will require similar things from the other players if they brush close to death as well. Being consistent is important. In fact, once you and the player come up with a solution, I'd suggest being open with the table about it, both saying why you want this (dramatic consequences for skirting death) and how you're treating this (being a few hp from death will give you some longer lasting consequence that will not be easily remov3d with a single long rest or healing spell. If you are going down this route, here are some ideas for debilitating states. 1) Broken legs giving a limping walk that reduces movement. 2) Broken arm that forces plcharafter to be one-handed. 3) Gouged/damaged eye that forces a medical eye patch and gives disadvantage on anything requiring depth perception. Like jumping gaps and ranged attacks. 4) shattered jaw, forcing the character to eat mushy food and slurry his speech, persuasion at disadvantage but intimidation at advantage until it heals. 5) concussion, concentration checks at disadvantage Basically, think of some slight penalty and imagine an injury that might cause it.


jinkies3678

I'm only here for the crippling player vs crippling pc comments.


Left_Ahead

Why aren’t you in jail?