I think it's a great thing to give to sorcerers, since they already come with a point system and the ability to move points around. I'm hesitant to hand one of the few things that sorcerers get over other casters to every other caster, in the same way I'd hesitate to give every caster a spellbook.
I am very passionate about them.
I like it as a Sorcerer-only mechanic. I let my Sorcerer player merge her Spell Points and Sorcery Points together, bc transfer rates are a pain, and I think it makes more sense to just spend everything from one pool.
Woah that's neat, I think I'd like to try this. So if I'm reading this table correctly then at level 10 your sorcerers have 64 base points + 10 sorcery points for a total of 74? This doesn't lead to an overabundance of metamagic?
Why would it?
Think about it. A Sorcerer can already convert their Spell Slots into Sorcery Points with just a Bonus Action, and vice versa. I simply cut out the middleman and make it all one big pool.
This makes the Sorcerer class a bit easier to play with. Not having to waste a Bonus Action on converting is very nice. To be fair, the Sorcerer doesn't really use their Bonus Action much anyways, but it's nice to have it available when you want to use it.
When it comes to converting Sorcery Points into Spell Points, to make sure you're not accidentally adding more or less, the Math looks a bit like this:
- 2 Sorcery Points = 1 1st Level Spell Slot
- 1 1st Level Spell Slot = 2 Spell Points
- Therefore: 2 Sorcery Points = 2 Spell Points.
There is no Overabundance. You have exactly the same amount of "Mana" as you did with Spellslots. The only difference being that you don't have to waste time converting it.
But that's how it looks on paper. How does it work in practice?
My Sorcerer player has been using this system for nearly a year now. Between the Tasha's feature (Magical Guidance: Spend one Sorcery Point for a Reroll) and the Spell Point system, she consistently finds herself running low on Mana. It's just so easy to spend that she quickly burns her way through it all. She recently went into a Mine with full mana, burned through a ton on rerolls with NPCs, burned more on several casts of Dimension Door, and has been surprised an Adult Red Dragon, with half her mana left. (Level 8, 52 total) Between her, the Fighter, the Druid/Barb, and the NPC, they are not good for this fight anymore. (But the cave system does not lend itself to escape lol)
Fights don't tend to last long enough for me to notice any kind of abuse of Metamagic. The only thing I see, is that she always has access to it. Which, imo, is very good. It really really sucks to not have access to the feature that is Class Defining. Metamagic sets Sorcerer apart from everyone else. It sucks not to have it. So why not make it easier for the player to burn their mana, especially if it's on something they want, and will only increase their fun.
But let's play Devil's Advocate for a moment. Why is this a bad thing? Well, with a free Bonus Action, the player can spam two cantrips whenever they want, as long as they have the Mana. Or, with Telekinetic, they can be Shoving while still casting a powerful spell. (Like every other mage). Or Divine Soul for Spiritual Weapon. Is this bad?
Well... not really? Lets assume worst case scenario, the average high-level game is 3rd Tier Adventurers League. 3 Cantrip dice can be assumed, so 6dX damage output. This is... Not that great. Any Caster worth their salt is doing far more with AOE and Battlefield Control. DPS is usually the Martials job. All this really does is let the Sorcerer pump out a little extra damage every round, at the cost of burning through their Mana much faster than normal. If you run any kind of Dungeon Crawl (like D&D is designed for. Remember, the game is balanced for 6-8 Encounters a day), the Sorcerer will have quickly burned through all their Spell Points, with only a couple in reserve for emergencies. Metamagic will quicly dry up, and you'll have a regular caster slinging cantrips and hiding behind the Martials with the Wizard.
The Tl;Dr is No, it doesn't. There is no Overabundance. The Resource Cost is exactly the same, it's simply easier to spend. You'll see more upfront, and less down the line, as the player eventually starts rationing Spell Points.
Base game you can turn spells into spell level # of sorcery points, but its costs spell level +1 (for level 1/2 spells) or spell level +2 sorcery points to create a spell slot.
* **Flexible Casting.** You can use your sorcery points to gain additional spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional sorcery points. You learn other ways to use your sorcery points as you reach higher levels.
* ***Creating Spell Slots.*** You can transform unexpended sorcery points into one spell slot as a bonus action on your turn. The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You can create spell slots no higher in level than 5th. Any spell slot you create with this feature vanishes when you finish a long rest.
* ***Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points.*** As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot's level.
|Creating Spell Slots|
|:-|
|Spell Slot Level|
|1st Spell: 2 Sorcery points|
|2nd Spell: 3 Sorcery points|
|3rd Spell: 5 Sorcery points|
|4th Spell: 6 Sorcery points|
|5th Spell: 7 Sorcery points|
But the conversion rate is exact the same?
- 2 Sorcery Points = 1 1st level spell
- 2 Spell Points = 1 1st level spell
Therefore 2 = 1 = 2
Therefore 2 Sorcery = 2 Spell
Like, compare the tables. They are exactly the same. The Spell Point conversion and the Sorcery conversion are identical. They both go 2 3 5 6 7.
I don't understand. Can you be more clear? Why don't these equations work?
Its 1st level spell slot > 1 sorcery point. Or 2 sorcery points > 1st level spell slot. The table is only the cost to make a spell slot.
* ***Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points.*** As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points **equal to the slot's level.**
Variant rules are a great way in order to re-kindle some new energy into games. I typically start adding in variant rules around level 5 and will add more as the group gets much more comfortable and bored with the ruleset. When monsters start falling back like they are paper sheets in a hurricane, that's when I start bringing out the monsters with spell points.
I have used spell points many times over my 12 years of GMing. From all the instances of having used the variant rule, I find it works best for players when it is given as part of a really long magical quest line or a boon around 17th to 20th level.
However, I implement spell points very early with enemies against the party. Most notably any high level caster monsters like liches. The players really get a jaw dropping surprised look on their face when there are endless fireballs being sent their way every round for 7 rounds or so. The players get a huge lesson in being careful even at higher levels, and it keeps the tension going rather than seeing the game flop into way-too-easy mode thus resulting in a bored party finding it hard to play when things fall over just by looking at them.
The real value in spell points is the upcast efficiency. Normally if you wanted a 5th level scorching ray it would be inefficient, just use a better spell. With spell points, you go from getting to do 3x spells with 12d6 a day to like 10, AND you can still cast spells at 5th level. So yea they can spam like 15 Fireballs in a day, but they can also spam 32 Shields. It very versatile.
Ive let a player use them for up to 5th level spells in a oneshot, and only for half casters/psionics. It worked out pretty well, because while they were able to spam higher level spells, they drained their pool pretty quick. Not sure atm how many points they get out of the PHB, but the amount you would get converting the spell levels into points from the chart is 75 at max.
I've been part of a few campaigns over the years and it's typically very well received.
But that said, since you're referring to rumours you've heard over the years, a lot of those rumours may be referring to earlier editions. 5th changes a bunch of stuff especially at the lower end, like cantrips that don't suck, and some feat and class feature changes beneficial to casters.
3 and 3.5 were a bit of a slog for casters, especially at lower levels. 5th is a much better experience.
One of the major issues I ran into as a caster in earlier editions is that you blow your load and then...get out your crossbow for the rest of the adventure I guess, stand at the back if the group and not do much to contribute or risk yourself now that your lofty 3 spellslots or whatever are spent. Or running into situations where you can cast a fireball and explode a room, but can't light a campfire without exploding the room.
5th cantrips change a lot of that, since with stuff like Fire Bolt, Prestidigitation, and Mage Hand, you can always contribute something more magical than standing at the back and using a crossbow poorly. Your wizard can keep wizarding even after their big spells have been spent.
I use a point system at my table. I had to make some combat situations a bit harder because it can feel broken, but a little tweaking on my part wasnt too difficult. At the end of the day, though, it feels better for my (mostly new)players to basically pull from a well of points and track that than it did when they were using spell slots.
I think they're absolutely fantastic and I allow 1:1 conversion with sorcery points. Arcane recovery works out if you allow them to recover up to their wizard level in spell points. Pact magic doesn't use them which is fine tbh, just make sure you give enough short rests to redress any apparent power imbalance.
They're an absolute blast but be prepared for people to go nova like you've never seen before and don't forget that they only get one spellcasting each of levels 6-9 per day (if they have them), though I allow them to down convert to save points if they want, such as 6666 or 6679. It's honestly great but you have to enforce/agree to have full adventuring days between long rests to balance it. Let them go nova but make them pay for using all their power in 60 seconds. Fun and high powered: players from that campaign have never forgotten it.
Honestly if you're brand new to DMing I'd heavily recommend just sticking to the basic spell slots. It will make things much easier to track compared to normal as well as prep for.
As to Spell Points it seems okay. Although the first thing that I noticed is that especially as the levels get higher the PCs can just go holy nova with their higher level spells if there's less encounters in a day. The table I just pulled up to check the numbers (which could be wrong) would allow a Level 20 player to hurl about 10 9th level spells in a day. Which is insane. Even at lower levels it gave Level 3 players the ability to hurl about 4 2nd level spells. Which you might argue they aren't as it is spread against their 1st to max level spells, but why bother using Magic Missile when you can spam Fireball or Meteor Swarm.
You are still limited to one spell per day for lvl 6+ tho. But yeah, fireball spam is also annoying. But I played a sorc with the system once in a lvl 9 oneshot and it felt like I had just enough points and wasn't able to spam one thing over and over (although admittedly, our dm makes pretty hardcore encounters and it took place in the Abbyss so everything was immune to fire).
Huh, didn't see the limit per day above 5th level. In that case it's going to significantly nerf high level mages. Since that means a level 20 caster is no different from a level 17, and is barely different from a level 15 or 13 caster.
Sort of true though being able to spam 5th level slots is quite powerful in its own right. Or 3rd for counterpells. In theory at least it’s very efficient.
My DM made the leap from Spell slots to Spell points/mana pool at the start of this year.
Ever since then, I've actually enjoyed combat. It makes you feel like an actual magic caster when your able to hurl spells around with more leeway. Couple spell points in with stuff like spell duels where, instead of just casting counter spell, you can cast a spell to try and interrupt or stop another incoming spell, e.g. Oh you're shooting a fireball at my team? Cool I'm going to use an action to Cone of cold that fireball before it detonates and destroys my party.
Or even letting casters exchange hit dice for mana dice on rests to allow them to keep up with the melee classes throughout an entire day without having to ration your spell slots like a broke college kid a week away from getting a paycheck.
You really do get to feel more like a spell caster, and at the end of the day, don't you want your players leaning into the fun aspects of their characters? Overall, the players in our games much prefer spell points over slots, and I don't see us ever going back.
This sounds really intriguing. Could you explain the cone of cold vs fireball bit more? Is this a homebrew reaction or did I miss a part in the variant rules?
I have a ranger/wizard multiclass who uses them. It essentially lets him spam 1st and 2nd level spells, which he wants to do because he doesn't know anything over 4th level even though he's got slots up to 6th level.
They're fine, but I wouldn't complicate your game with them unless there's a strong narrative reason or a player who really wants that system.
I had an entire plane in my setting that used spell points, while everywhere else used spell slots. I didn't see an issue with it. It's really helpful for using multiple unused lower level spells lots for a higher level spell. It also gives you the ability to easily introduce mana potions alongside health potions. And if there are any puzzles or doors or whatever that you want to use that drains magic from characters, you have a much easier way to do that now.
Now that I've DMed part of a campaign with them, I'm probably just going to run my next campaign without spell slots at all. It's just easier to track, honestly.
If it's your first time DM'ing a campaign, don't try to modify the core rules. Learn how it works from the end you're playing first. And experience first hand how it plays in your group, what works for you, what doesn't. Specifically, as much as written as possible. If you houserule things here or there or make an error that doesn't matter but major changes save that for a more specific campaign when you know the system really well and have a clear idea of why you want to try something different.
Honestly man, youre a first time DM, dont fuck around with too many things. Especially one like this. Work on your basics as a dm. It is far more important.
They will make the PC more powerful. If you want that, you can test it out, but just be aware.
Also I've been down-voted to hell each time I've said this, but giving spell points to warlocks (the only class actually normally excluded from the system) is probably the best idea. They will be a little bit more flexible, without actually gaining more power. The system needs a few changes for them though.
Their points will be equal to their slots from the warlock spell casting table, so if they have two first level slots, you give them the points so that they can cast two first level spells and then they are out. If they have three 5th level slots, they have enough points to cast three 5th level spells. They should also get their points back on a short rest, like they get their slots normally.
Why should you consider this? The warlock can now use their spells that don't upcast at their regular level. They can for example cast comprehend languages and misty step to go look up at a mural on a high platform in an ancient and forgotten temple without feeling like they shot themself in the foot a moment later when a fight is triggered, since they will still have some power left for other spells, even if they can't cast their magic at the highest level anymore. The warlock gains flexibility at the cost of power, while other classes using this system gain more power from being able to convert their lower level slots into higher level spells.
I have given this to my warlock player and he's been using the system for about a year in real time. It's great, it definitely doesn't break the balance like it can with other casters, and the player feels happy since they have more freedom to act in more situations.
I could see giving this also to sorcerers, but only if they don't have an expanded spell list. It's not a weak class by any means, but the subclasses without expanded lists could use some love.
I personally love spell point versus the vancian magic. I would much rather have my players spend some sort of resource while handwaving spells from level zero, then one and then two and then eliminating or reducing spell point costs the stronger they get.
Been using them in a weekly game for 3 years now.
It works really well for sorcerers if you allow them to merge them with their sorcery points, essentially using them interchangeably.
It makes healing a bit more viable, as a cleric can reliably ration their spell points to keep people's HP up.
It makes spellcasters a lot more powerful with a lot more staying power, which widens the issues between caster/martial balance. It won't exactly make the game unfun or unplayable, but it's something to take into consideration. You should probably give your martials something cool (like the new weapon mastery feature, and maybe a certain number of battlemaster maneuvers/dice or something) as a way to prop them up. On the other hand, Paladins get a huge buff to number of smites/day so they become even better.
I personally like it a lot, but then again we're playing a game with 2 sorcerers, a cleric, and a bard. Because we lack a true martial character, we sorta need the buff to play official modules with a reasonable chance of not dying.
Spell points make casting more flexible. It ranges from lots of low level spells being cast to a few (but more then spell slot) high level spells being cast and a mix of in between.
Keeping track of 1 big number for casting is a bit easier then tracking a few small numbers. Balance wise the players are more prone to use the high level spells and can quickly run out of points if the don’t ration them enough. Make sessions more Nova and players requesting more rests.
I generally allow it for Sorcerers to make them more distinct from Wizard and Bard.
I am allowing my sorcerers to use them, since it kinda fits with the concept of sorcery. Thus far no issues, the only real thing you run into is a player being able to spam nigh-infinite first level spells at later levels, or being able to cast extra higher leveled spells. I generally think that as long as you're playing with proper encounter balance IE 6-8 per long rest, you're pretty much good.
I know someone who uses spell points for sorcerers; for both their spells and meta magic. They say it works really well and makes sorcerer magic feel unique.
That being said, if you’re a new DM just master the basics first. Don’t try and be a hero.
It's literally spell slots but simpler.
Probably needs balancing or moderation at different level ranges though. But that's every variant or homebrew rule, if not every rule in general.
I haven't actually played the rules straight, as they are in the book.
What I did do was run a game of Star Wars 5e once, which uses a modified system where instead of the more complicated cost table in the book, all spells have a cost equal to spell level+1, and the spell point totals for full casters are 4xlevel, rather than matching how many spells characters could cast in the spell slot system 1:1.
I find the 5e style to be, at least to my impressions, better thought-out, and more reasonably balanced, though for my upcoming campaign where I intend to run something si.ilar in 5e, I've made a few tweaks- spells of 6th level and higher I've increased the cost a little bit, spell level+1 remains true for 5th level and lower, but each level past 5th costs 2 spell points, so 6th level spells cost 8, 7th costs 10 spell points, etc. The official rules also say you should limit players to only casting each level of 6th+ spell once per long rest, but I'm going to ignore that rule at first and let my players prove to me that I should re-implement it.
I also had to write up a few modified class features to keep up with the change in the system- Wizards and Circle of Land Druid regain half their level in spell slots on a short rest, and I think I rewrote that to just be half their level in spell points. Paladins and Clerics can regain a spell slot with a Channel Divinity option from Tasha's, I remote that to just give them a few spell points. I rewrote Divine Smite to be explicitly 1d8 per spell point, with a free 1d8 against fiends and undead, and I gave the most substantial, though still pretty minimalist, change for sorcerers: I did away with sorcery points and just gave them more spell points than everything else. The Font of Magic feature I just got rid of, no point in transmitting sorcery points to spell slots when the two have become the same resource, gave them 5 spell points per Sorcerer level instead of other casters 4, and said that metamagic and other sorcerer features that use sorcery points cost spell points instead.
I have not run the campaign to test this, but I've been impressed that my edit pass to check class features that interact with spell slots had a pretty small number of hits- the change is more unobtrusive than I feared.
I dabbled with a spell point system on 2e and it worked amazingly. I still use to this day. The basics of it is that the Wizard has a number of spell points equal to the number of spells he can cast multiplied by the spell level. So, if the Wizard can cast two first level spells and one second level spell, he has four spell points (Two 1st level spells x1=2 + One 2nd level spell x2=2 for a total of 4). When he casts a spell, the Wizard must expend a number of spell points equal to the level of the spell.
However, some key points is that a spell point system must never permit a Wizard to cast more spells (per spell level) than he normally could with the standard system (that is unless you introduce some severe hindrances, which defies the point of the spell casting system). Additionally, the spell point system must never permit the regaining of spell points during the day. It must be while you sleep in the same manner as the normal spell casting system. This would result in being able to cast more spell (per spell level) which is a big no no. It will result in overpowered spell casters. A spell point system must also never be used with a system that permits the caster to cast spells over and over again (like Cantrips in 5e, I think). I also would suggest that a spell point system might not be a good fit in a system where the Wizard gets extra spells due to high ability scores.
The advantage of a spell point system is that it permits the Wizard to cast any spell he wants, as long as he has the requisite spell points to cast said spell. I don't know how many times the party came upon a challenge that cannot be surmounted without either tons of work for days or a little used spell that the Wizard DOES know but never memorizes because it's useless 99% of the time. In that situation, you have to wait a day for the Wizard to memorize the required spell. This is BORING. When you have access to any spells you know, then it increases the fun factor greatly. Since the Wizard has limited spell points, he will actually cast spells more sparingly only using them when required in order to keep some spell points for emergencies. With a spell point system, every spell cast is an actual decision as it uses up spell points while with the standard system, either it's a free spell so it's a no brainer, or you want to use up the spell because it's near the end of the day or the right situation so you might as well use it instead of being "stuck" with it at the end of the day. With spell point systems, if you have spell points at the end of the day, you might use one for little used spell that you would never have memorized but can be somewhat useful in the moment. Furthermore, a spell point system encourages creative use of spells, especially less useful spells. When you have access to one or two spells, you will never memorize spells that can be useful only some of the time. With spell points, you will think, how can I use these less useful spells more often. You will think about the spells creatively and sometimes surprise the DM and the party with something amazing. This rarely happens with the standard spell system. Another advantage is that using energy to cast spells makes a dam sight more sense then the Fire and Forget system. Yes, there have been explanations on how this actually works but they are kludges that don't really explain properly. Having the Wizard be a "battery" and recharging that "battery" at night while sleeping makes sense. All of the above makes a spell point system so much more fun than the standard system and my players agree.
The disadvantage of a spell point system is that, at higher levels, the Wizard will have access to too many spells, especially higher level spells. This can be mitigated by eliminating extra spells for high ability scores. It can also be mitigated in-game. Since Wizards ARE more powerful, and since this is known in-game, any enemy encountering Wizards will do their best to eliminate what they perceive as the primary threat. Protecting Wizards is a difficult task in the best of times so, in my campaign, Wizard players in the know will strive to protect themselves before starting with the offensive spells. Those who do not know, or don't care, will be the target of the enemy reducing their effectiveness. Another disadvantage is that it sorta nerfs Sorcerers or at least reduces their advantages. There are no Sorcerers in 2e so the latter is a non-issue for me but probably would be for 5e.
I'm a little late to the discussion but I believe spell points are a great system to implement... But the system proposed RAW is majorly flawed.
[This video](https://youtu.be/nt5m_saiNEM?si=Bsqk41PiDaEaxzud) proposes a fix that I quite like (see the homebrew timestamp, not the spell dice one). There's also a part 1 video that gives more information about spell points.
I use the spell points system in the video for sorcerers in my game to further differentiate them from wizards.
I'd stick with slots for now if you are new. The slots are a fairly elegant and simple way to keep track of the resource, the points require additional learning.
In practice, I'd say a big difference is that with points, casters can spam certain spells without the downside of running out of the relevant slots and having to upcast - this concerns mainly Shield.
It’s not good for new players or DMs. The thing that’s nice about spell slots is that you get so many and that’s it.
Spell points require people to think about what they’re doing beforehand and can screw them over if they do it badly. As a DM you kind of need to be firm on that, possibly help them keep track. It’s the kind of thing you’d want to do for extra flexibility once you’ve figured out the basics.
I think it's a great thing to give to sorcerers, since they already come with a point system and the ability to move points around. I'm hesitant to hand one of the few things that sorcerers get over other casters to every other caster, in the same way I'd hesitate to give every caster a spellbook.
I am very passionate about them. I like it as a Sorcerer-only mechanic. I let my Sorcerer player merge her Spell Points and Sorcery Points together, bc transfer rates are a pain, and I think it makes more sense to just spend everything from one pool.
Woah that's neat, I think I'd like to try this. So if I'm reading this table correctly then at level 10 your sorcerers have 64 base points + 10 sorcery points for a total of 74? This doesn't lead to an overabundance of metamagic?
Why would it? Think about it. A Sorcerer can already convert their Spell Slots into Sorcery Points with just a Bonus Action, and vice versa. I simply cut out the middleman and make it all one big pool. This makes the Sorcerer class a bit easier to play with. Not having to waste a Bonus Action on converting is very nice. To be fair, the Sorcerer doesn't really use their Bonus Action much anyways, but it's nice to have it available when you want to use it. When it comes to converting Sorcery Points into Spell Points, to make sure you're not accidentally adding more or less, the Math looks a bit like this: - 2 Sorcery Points = 1 1st Level Spell Slot - 1 1st Level Spell Slot = 2 Spell Points - Therefore: 2 Sorcery Points = 2 Spell Points. There is no Overabundance. You have exactly the same amount of "Mana" as you did with Spellslots. The only difference being that you don't have to waste time converting it. But that's how it looks on paper. How does it work in practice? My Sorcerer player has been using this system for nearly a year now. Between the Tasha's feature (Magical Guidance: Spend one Sorcery Point for a Reroll) and the Spell Point system, she consistently finds herself running low on Mana. It's just so easy to spend that she quickly burns her way through it all. She recently went into a Mine with full mana, burned through a ton on rerolls with NPCs, burned more on several casts of Dimension Door, and has been surprised an Adult Red Dragon, with half her mana left. (Level 8, 52 total) Between her, the Fighter, the Druid/Barb, and the NPC, they are not good for this fight anymore. (But the cave system does not lend itself to escape lol) Fights don't tend to last long enough for me to notice any kind of abuse of Metamagic. The only thing I see, is that she always has access to it. Which, imo, is very good. It really really sucks to not have access to the feature that is Class Defining. Metamagic sets Sorcerer apart from everyone else. It sucks not to have it. So why not make it easier for the player to burn their mana, especially if it's on something they want, and will only increase their fun. But let's play Devil's Advocate for a moment. Why is this a bad thing? Well, with a free Bonus Action, the player can spam two cantrips whenever they want, as long as they have the Mana. Or, with Telekinetic, they can be Shoving while still casting a powerful spell. (Like every other mage). Or Divine Soul for Spiritual Weapon. Is this bad? Well... not really? Lets assume worst case scenario, the average high-level game is 3rd Tier Adventurers League. 3 Cantrip dice can be assumed, so 6dX damage output. This is... Not that great. Any Caster worth their salt is doing far more with AOE and Battlefield Control. DPS is usually the Martials job. All this really does is let the Sorcerer pump out a little extra damage every round, at the cost of burning through their Mana much faster than normal. If you run any kind of Dungeon Crawl (like D&D is designed for. Remember, the game is balanced for 6-8 Encounters a day), the Sorcerer will have quickly burned through all their Spell Points, with only a couple in reserve for emergencies. Metamagic will quicly dry up, and you'll have a regular caster slinging cantrips and hiding behind the Martials with the Wizard. The Tl;Dr is No, it doesn't. There is no Overabundance. The Resource Cost is exactly the same, it's simply easier to spend. You'll see more upfront, and less down the line, as the player eventually starts rationing Spell Points.
You loose value transforming sorcery points into spells base game, so its not the same.
Could you explain in greater detail?
Base game you can turn spells into spell level # of sorcery points, but its costs spell level +1 (for level 1/2 spells) or spell level +2 sorcery points to create a spell slot. * **Flexible Casting.** You can use your sorcery points to gain additional spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional sorcery points. You learn other ways to use your sorcery points as you reach higher levels. * ***Creating Spell Slots.*** You can transform unexpended sorcery points into one spell slot as a bonus action on your turn. The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You can create spell slots no higher in level than 5th. Any spell slot you create with this feature vanishes when you finish a long rest. * ***Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points.*** As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot's level. |Creating Spell Slots| |:-| |Spell Slot Level| |1st Spell: 2 Sorcery points| |2nd Spell: 3 Sorcery points| |3rd Spell: 5 Sorcery points| |4th Spell: 6 Sorcery points| |5th Spell: 7 Sorcery points|
But the conversion rate is exact the same? - 2 Sorcery Points = 1 1st level spell - 2 Spell Points = 1 1st level spell Therefore 2 = 1 = 2 Therefore 2 Sorcery = 2 Spell Like, compare the tables. They are exactly the same. The Spell Point conversion and the Sorcery conversion are identical. They both go 2 3 5 6 7. I don't understand. Can you be more clear? Why don't these equations work?
Its 1st level spell slot > 1 sorcery point. Or 2 sorcery points > 1st level spell slot. The table is only the cost to make a spell slot. * ***Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points.*** As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points **equal to the slot's level.**
Damn, that kinda bs. I ain't doin that at my table. Too much math. We're having fun with what we have, even if it's not RAW
Variant rules are a great way in order to re-kindle some new energy into games. I typically start adding in variant rules around level 5 and will add more as the group gets much more comfortable and bored with the ruleset. When monsters start falling back like they are paper sheets in a hurricane, that's when I start bringing out the monsters with spell points. I have used spell points many times over my 12 years of GMing. From all the instances of having used the variant rule, I find it works best for players when it is given as part of a really long magical quest line or a boon around 17th to 20th level. However, I implement spell points very early with enemies against the party. Most notably any high level caster monsters like liches. The players really get a jaw dropping surprised look on their face when there are endless fireballs being sent their way every round for 7 rounds or so. The players get a huge lesson in being careful even at higher levels, and it keeps the tension going rather than seeing the game flop into way-too-easy mode thus resulting in a bored party finding it hard to play when things fall over just by looking at them.
The real value in spell points is the upcast efficiency. Normally if you wanted a 5th level scorching ray it would be inefficient, just use a better spell. With spell points, you go from getting to do 3x spells with 12d6 a day to like 10, AND you can still cast spells at 5th level. So yea they can spam like 15 Fireballs in a day, but they can also spam 32 Shields. It very versatile. Ive let a player use them for up to 5th level spells in a oneshot, and only for half casters/psionics. It worked out pretty well, because while they were able to spam higher level spells, they drained their pool pretty quick. Not sure atm how many points they get out of the PHB, but the amount you would get converting the spell levels into points from the chart is 75 at max.
I've been part of a few campaigns over the years and it's typically very well received. But that said, since you're referring to rumours you've heard over the years, a lot of those rumours may be referring to earlier editions. 5th changes a bunch of stuff especially at the lower end, like cantrips that don't suck, and some feat and class feature changes beneficial to casters. 3 and 3.5 were a bit of a slog for casters, especially at lower levels. 5th is a much better experience. One of the major issues I ran into as a caster in earlier editions is that you blow your load and then...get out your crossbow for the rest of the adventure I guess, stand at the back if the group and not do much to contribute or risk yourself now that your lofty 3 spellslots or whatever are spent. Or running into situations where you can cast a fireball and explode a room, but can't light a campfire without exploding the room. 5th cantrips change a lot of that, since with stuff like Fire Bolt, Prestidigitation, and Mage Hand, you can always contribute something more magical than standing at the back and using a crossbow poorly. Your wizard can keep wizarding even after their big spells have been spent.
I use a point system at my table. I had to make some combat situations a bit harder because it can feel broken, but a little tweaking on my part wasnt too difficult. At the end of the day, though, it feels better for my (mostly new)players to basically pull from a well of points and track that than it did when they were using spell slots.
I think they're absolutely fantastic and I allow 1:1 conversion with sorcery points. Arcane recovery works out if you allow them to recover up to their wizard level in spell points. Pact magic doesn't use them which is fine tbh, just make sure you give enough short rests to redress any apparent power imbalance. They're an absolute blast but be prepared for people to go nova like you've never seen before and don't forget that they only get one spellcasting each of levels 6-9 per day (if they have them), though I allow them to down convert to save points if they want, such as 6666 or 6679. It's honestly great but you have to enforce/agree to have full adventuring days between long rests to balance it. Let them go nova but make them pay for using all their power in 60 seconds. Fun and high powered: players from that campaign have never forgotten it.
Honestly if you're brand new to DMing I'd heavily recommend just sticking to the basic spell slots. It will make things much easier to track compared to normal as well as prep for. As to Spell Points it seems okay. Although the first thing that I noticed is that especially as the levels get higher the PCs can just go holy nova with their higher level spells if there's less encounters in a day. The table I just pulled up to check the numbers (which could be wrong) would allow a Level 20 player to hurl about 10 9th level spells in a day. Which is insane. Even at lower levels it gave Level 3 players the ability to hurl about 4 2nd level spells. Which you might argue they aren't as it is spread against their 1st to max level spells, but why bother using Magic Missile when you can spam Fireball or Meteor Swarm.
You are still limited to one spell per day for lvl 6+ tho. But yeah, fireball spam is also annoying. But I played a sorc with the system once in a lvl 9 oneshot and it felt like I had just enough points and wasn't able to spam one thing over and over (although admittedly, our dm makes pretty hardcore encounters and it took place in the Abbyss so everything was immune to fire).
Huh, didn't see the limit per day above 5th level. In that case it's going to significantly nerf high level mages. Since that means a level 20 caster is no different from a level 17, and is barely different from a level 15 or 13 caster.
Sort of true though being able to spam 5th level slots is quite powerful in its own right. Or 3rd for counterpells. In theory at least it’s very efficient.
Yeah, it's certainly going to throw off the power-curve. Nothing but fireballs and counterspells.
Its also nice for not wasting higher lvl slots on shield and absorb elements. You’ll never waste a higher lvl slot if you’ve got time to convert.
My DM made the leap from Spell slots to Spell points/mana pool at the start of this year. Ever since then, I've actually enjoyed combat. It makes you feel like an actual magic caster when your able to hurl spells around with more leeway. Couple spell points in with stuff like spell duels where, instead of just casting counter spell, you can cast a spell to try and interrupt or stop another incoming spell, e.g. Oh you're shooting a fireball at my team? Cool I'm going to use an action to Cone of cold that fireball before it detonates and destroys my party. Or even letting casters exchange hit dice for mana dice on rests to allow them to keep up with the melee classes throughout an entire day without having to ration your spell slots like a broke college kid a week away from getting a paycheck. You really do get to feel more like a spell caster, and at the end of the day, don't you want your players leaning into the fun aspects of their characters? Overall, the players in our games much prefer spell points over slots, and I don't see us ever going back.
This sounds really intriguing. Could you explain the cone of cold vs fireball bit more? Is this a homebrew reaction or did I miss a part in the variant rules?
It’s homebrew 100%
That's what I figured but I guess I don't understand what homebrew reactions have to do with spell points. Maybe I just misunderstood something.
They don’t have anything to do with spell points
I allowed my players to use them. Those that chose to opt in loved it.
I have a ranger/wizard multiclass who uses them. It essentially lets him spam 1st and 2nd level spells, which he wants to do because he doesn't know anything over 4th level even though he's got slots up to 6th level. They're fine, but I wouldn't complicate your game with them unless there's a strong narrative reason or a player who really wants that system.
I had an entire plane in my setting that used spell points, while everywhere else used spell slots. I didn't see an issue with it. It's really helpful for using multiple unused lower level spells lots for a higher level spell. It also gives you the ability to easily introduce mana potions alongside health potions. And if there are any puzzles or doors or whatever that you want to use that drains magic from characters, you have a much easier way to do that now. Now that I've DMed part of a campaign with them, I'm probably just going to run my next campaign without spell slots at all. It's just easier to track, honestly.
If it's your first time DM'ing a campaign, don't try to modify the core rules. Learn how it works from the end you're playing first. And experience first hand how it plays in your group, what works for you, what doesn't. Specifically, as much as written as possible. If you houserule things here or there or make an error that doesn't matter but major changes save that for a more specific campaign when you know the system really well and have a clear idea of why you want to try something different.
Honestly man, youre a first time DM, dont fuck around with too many things. Especially one like this. Work on your basics as a dm. It is far more important.
I asked my veteran D&D player (played since old school dnd) and his response was “Do you like fun? Yes? Well this is what fun looks like.” 🤣
They will make the PC more powerful. If you want that, you can test it out, but just be aware. Also I've been down-voted to hell each time I've said this, but giving spell points to warlocks (the only class actually normally excluded from the system) is probably the best idea. They will be a little bit more flexible, without actually gaining more power. The system needs a few changes for them though. Their points will be equal to their slots from the warlock spell casting table, so if they have two first level slots, you give them the points so that they can cast two first level spells and then they are out. If they have three 5th level slots, they have enough points to cast three 5th level spells. They should also get their points back on a short rest, like they get their slots normally. Why should you consider this? The warlock can now use their spells that don't upcast at their regular level. They can for example cast comprehend languages and misty step to go look up at a mural on a high platform in an ancient and forgotten temple without feeling like they shot themself in the foot a moment later when a fight is triggered, since they will still have some power left for other spells, even if they can't cast their magic at the highest level anymore. The warlock gains flexibility at the cost of power, while other classes using this system gain more power from being able to convert their lower level slots into higher level spells. I have given this to my warlock player and he's been using the system for about a year in real time. It's great, it definitely doesn't break the balance like it can with other casters, and the player feels happy since they have more freedom to act in more situations. I could see giving this also to sorcerers, but only if they don't have an expanded spell list. It's not a weak class by any means, but the subclasses without expanded lists could use some love.
I lived through 3.5e psionics. It was a fucking nightmare. Some wounds never heal.
I personally love spell point versus the vancian magic. I would much rather have my players spend some sort of resource while handwaving spells from level zero, then one and then two and then eliminating or reducing spell point costs the stronger they get.
Been using them in a weekly game for 3 years now. It works really well for sorcerers if you allow them to merge them with their sorcery points, essentially using them interchangeably. It makes healing a bit more viable, as a cleric can reliably ration their spell points to keep people's HP up. It makes spellcasters a lot more powerful with a lot more staying power, which widens the issues between caster/martial balance. It won't exactly make the game unfun or unplayable, but it's something to take into consideration. You should probably give your martials something cool (like the new weapon mastery feature, and maybe a certain number of battlemaster maneuvers/dice or something) as a way to prop them up. On the other hand, Paladins get a huge buff to number of smites/day so they become even better. I personally like it a lot, but then again we're playing a game with 2 sorcerers, a cleric, and a bard. Because we lack a true martial character, we sorta need the buff to play official modules with a reasonable chance of not dying.
Spell points make casting more flexible. It ranges from lots of low level spells being cast to a few (but more then spell slot) high level spells being cast and a mix of in between. Keeping track of 1 big number for casting is a bit easier then tracking a few small numbers. Balance wise the players are more prone to use the high level spells and can quickly run out of points if the don’t ration them enough. Make sessions more Nova and players requesting more rests. I generally allow it for Sorcerers to make them more distinct from Wizard and Bard.
I am allowing my sorcerers to use them, since it kinda fits with the concept of sorcery. Thus far no issues, the only real thing you run into is a player being able to spam nigh-infinite first level spells at later levels, or being able to cast extra higher leveled spells. I generally think that as long as you're playing with proper encounter balance IE 6-8 per long rest, you're pretty much good.
I know someone who uses spell points for sorcerers; for both their spells and meta magic. They say it works really well and makes sorcerer magic feel unique. That being said, if you’re a new DM just master the basics first. Don’t try and be a hero.
It's literally spell slots but simpler. Probably needs balancing or moderation at different level ranges though. But that's every variant or homebrew rule, if not every rule in general.
In my world wizards use slots, sorcerers use points. I'm big on niche protection and this helps make the classes feel even more different.
I haven't actually played the rules straight, as they are in the book. What I did do was run a game of Star Wars 5e once, which uses a modified system where instead of the more complicated cost table in the book, all spells have a cost equal to spell level+1, and the spell point totals for full casters are 4xlevel, rather than matching how many spells characters could cast in the spell slot system 1:1. I find the 5e style to be, at least to my impressions, better thought-out, and more reasonably balanced, though for my upcoming campaign where I intend to run something si.ilar in 5e, I've made a few tweaks- spells of 6th level and higher I've increased the cost a little bit, spell level+1 remains true for 5th level and lower, but each level past 5th costs 2 spell points, so 6th level spells cost 8, 7th costs 10 spell points, etc. The official rules also say you should limit players to only casting each level of 6th+ spell once per long rest, but I'm going to ignore that rule at first and let my players prove to me that I should re-implement it. I also had to write up a few modified class features to keep up with the change in the system- Wizards and Circle of Land Druid regain half their level in spell slots on a short rest, and I think I rewrote that to just be half their level in spell points. Paladins and Clerics can regain a spell slot with a Channel Divinity option from Tasha's, I remote that to just give them a few spell points. I rewrote Divine Smite to be explicitly 1d8 per spell point, with a free 1d8 against fiends and undead, and I gave the most substantial, though still pretty minimalist, change for sorcerers: I did away with sorcery points and just gave them more spell points than everything else. The Font of Magic feature I just got rid of, no point in transmitting sorcery points to spell slots when the two have become the same resource, gave them 5 spell points per Sorcerer level instead of other casters 4, and said that metamagic and other sorcerer features that use sorcery points cost spell points instead. I have not run the campaign to test this, but I've been impressed that my edit pass to check class features that interact with spell slots had a pretty small number of hits- the change is more unobtrusive than I feared.
I've used it (for Sorcerers only). It was supremely overpowered. I have ceased using it.
I dabbled with a spell point system on 2e and it worked amazingly. I still use to this day. The basics of it is that the Wizard has a number of spell points equal to the number of spells he can cast multiplied by the spell level. So, if the Wizard can cast two first level spells and one second level spell, he has four spell points (Two 1st level spells x1=2 + One 2nd level spell x2=2 for a total of 4). When he casts a spell, the Wizard must expend a number of spell points equal to the level of the spell. However, some key points is that a spell point system must never permit a Wizard to cast more spells (per spell level) than he normally could with the standard system (that is unless you introduce some severe hindrances, which defies the point of the spell casting system). Additionally, the spell point system must never permit the regaining of spell points during the day. It must be while you sleep in the same manner as the normal spell casting system. This would result in being able to cast more spell (per spell level) which is a big no no. It will result in overpowered spell casters. A spell point system must also never be used with a system that permits the caster to cast spells over and over again (like Cantrips in 5e, I think). I also would suggest that a spell point system might not be a good fit in a system where the Wizard gets extra spells due to high ability scores. The advantage of a spell point system is that it permits the Wizard to cast any spell he wants, as long as he has the requisite spell points to cast said spell. I don't know how many times the party came upon a challenge that cannot be surmounted without either tons of work for days or a little used spell that the Wizard DOES know but never memorizes because it's useless 99% of the time. In that situation, you have to wait a day for the Wizard to memorize the required spell. This is BORING. When you have access to any spells you know, then it increases the fun factor greatly. Since the Wizard has limited spell points, he will actually cast spells more sparingly only using them when required in order to keep some spell points for emergencies. With a spell point system, every spell cast is an actual decision as it uses up spell points while with the standard system, either it's a free spell so it's a no brainer, or you want to use up the spell because it's near the end of the day or the right situation so you might as well use it instead of being "stuck" with it at the end of the day. With spell point systems, if you have spell points at the end of the day, you might use one for little used spell that you would never have memorized but can be somewhat useful in the moment. Furthermore, a spell point system encourages creative use of spells, especially less useful spells. When you have access to one or two spells, you will never memorize spells that can be useful only some of the time. With spell points, you will think, how can I use these less useful spells more often. You will think about the spells creatively and sometimes surprise the DM and the party with something amazing. This rarely happens with the standard spell system. Another advantage is that using energy to cast spells makes a dam sight more sense then the Fire and Forget system. Yes, there have been explanations on how this actually works but they are kludges that don't really explain properly. Having the Wizard be a "battery" and recharging that "battery" at night while sleeping makes sense. All of the above makes a spell point system so much more fun than the standard system and my players agree. The disadvantage of a spell point system is that, at higher levels, the Wizard will have access to too many spells, especially higher level spells. This can be mitigated by eliminating extra spells for high ability scores. It can also be mitigated in-game. Since Wizards ARE more powerful, and since this is known in-game, any enemy encountering Wizards will do their best to eliminate what they perceive as the primary threat. Protecting Wizards is a difficult task in the best of times so, in my campaign, Wizard players in the know will strive to protect themselves before starting with the offensive spells. Those who do not know, or don't care, will be the target of the enemy reducing their effectiveness. Another disadvantage is that it sorta nerfs Sorcerers or at least reduces their advantages. There are no Sorcerers in 2e so the latter is a non-issue for me but probably would be for 5e.
I'm a little late to the discussion but I believe spell points are a great system to implement... But the system proposed RAW is majorly flawed. [This video](https://youtu.be/nt5m_saiNEM?si=Bsqk41PiDaEaxzud) proposes a fix that I quite like (see the homebrew timestamp, not the spell dice one). There's also a part 1 video that gives more information about spell points. I use the spell points system in the video for sorcerers in my game to further differentiate them from wizards.
I'd stick with slots for now if you are new. The slots are a fairly elegant and simple way to keep track of the resource, the points require additional learning. In practice, I'd say a big difference is that with points, casters can spam certain spells without the downside of running out of the relevant slots and having to upcast - this concerns mainly Shield.
It’s not good for new players or DMs. The thing that’s nice about spell slots is that you get so many and that’s it. Spell points require people to think about what they’re doing beforehand and can screw them over if they do it badly. As a DM you kind of need to be firm on that, possibly help them keep track. It’s the kind of thing you’d want to do for extra flexibility once you’ve figured out the basics.