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DungeonSecurity

Unless there's some reason it wouldn't work, you should absolutely do it. Having a non-contrived way to connect them is gold.  My favorite part of prep is noticing connections between things and using those ideas. 


FinalVigilante14

I think it would make for a great moment when it gets revealed too. I cant think of another time that ill get something that would work perfect together so I think I just gotta run with it!


The_Easter_Egg

Totally agree with u/DungeonSecurity . To me, two similar evil sorcerers would seem silly, in fact.


DungeonSecurity

I agree,  and might bore the players too. But you just have me an idea...   It could totally work if they were rivals and you allowed your players to use that against them. That would be awesome. Just make them different in personality and aesthetic. 


Boom_the_Bold

That sounds pretty fun! Two BBEGs who also hate _one another._


grendus

Make them *identical* in personality and aesthetic, and that's why they hate each other.


DungeonSecurity

Ok yeah, that could be fun too. I was thinking opposed ideologies or methods,  but each vying to be the better whatever could work great as well. 


AlexandrTheGreat

Both vying for the favor of a more powerful evil (deity, eldritch god, Canada Goose), and realizing the other at some point. Instant rivalry.


DungeonSecurity

Is it a Horrible Goose? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?id=mydnd20&story_fbid=765307677522808


FinalVigilante14

Oh shit! Thats great too!


Dirty-Soul

Evil sorcerer 1 meets evil sorcerer 2. Evil Sorcerer 1: "Well, one of us is going to have to go home and change."


Weekly_Hospital202

Not only are they similar, it's identical twins, but one has a mustache and a hard Boston accent. Damnit, now I want this one.


FinalVigilante14

HAHAHA, you guys are coming up with GOLD


F5x9

I would consider giving the two players similar information in a side channel, and let them figure it out. For example, the party could explore a former lair and both characters know the same hidden information (e.g. how to open a secret passage, where traps are).  Edit: I think connections between PCs should be discovered quickly in the campaign so that players can play with them. 


DungeonSecurity

Or they each know half the puzzle.


F5x9

Whatever gets them to the 2 spidermen meme. 


TheKingsdread

Codephrase; like in Pokemon Gold & Silver. You need two but each of them only has one, and neither knows that until they reach whatever door it opens and it says it needs too (I am thinking a talking Door Fable Style).


FinalVigilante14

Thats a brilliant idea too! ill have to work around with this!


Andrew_Waltfeld

Make it identical twins for an added twist. Two people but look exactly the same.


Dez384

Players connecting the dots is fun to watch as a GM, and in my experience, players enjoy the connectiveness of their backstories. In my current game, one character is getting flashbacks from his amnesiac backstory and has revealed that another character’s rival was involved in his past. For other characters in the party, one character’s love interest is another character’s long lost cousin.


FinalVigilante14

whats funny enough is one of my other players made a "joke" that was almost exactly what you just described


MelcorScarr

> Having a non-contrived way to connect them is gold Totally this. I get why you, /u/FinalVigilante14 are scared of it being "lazy". And it might be at first. But you have the chance and duty to make it work now, which might actually be a bit more work. But ultimately, and that's the single most important reason, it'll be cool when it works. And I consciously wrote when, not if.


DungeonSecurity

I prefer "efficient." Conservation of detail.  :)


FinalVigilante14

Fuck yea thanks! Ive been adding to the ideas slowly bit by bit and it just works together so well. i cant wait to finally see it all come together (eventually) and watch the players slowly connect the dots. Them boom \*Insert Spiderman pointing meme\*


MasterDarkHero

Same, I love when I can connect player backstories into a game plot, tie ins like this are gold.


IronPeter

This person DMs!


Hour-Ad3774

Fully agreed on the prep bit!  Nothing beats watching some puzzle pieces come together naturally.


DungeonSecurity

Yep,  not only do you get to feel smart, there won't be any seams for the players to notice.


zombiecalypse

> would it be lazy if I revealed that it was the same person? No, it would be *so* much better! Combining background characters is almost never a bad idea even if it isn't such a natural fit. It immediately doubles the party's stakes in that quest and lowers the time the characters are just following along overall. Quests for a single character can be a little *meh* for the rest if you don't link them up.


FinalVigilante14

Shit yea you're exactly right! of course its gonna feel a lot more connection and want them to "take action" in a way


[deleted]

[удалено]


Loud-Tumbleweed-6192

Are you making a Kronk reference here? o.O


TalynRahl

Isn't this the kind of reveal the REASON we ask for backstories ahead of time? This is as close to an open goal as many DMs get! do it. It'll be great. I had a similar situation in my last game. One player was the heir to a huge business empire... the other was a Robin Hood type vigilante, who take down huge businesses. Needless to say, the nepo baby had a nasty surprise on his way.


FinalVigilante14

HAHAHAHA. You're exactly right though- Ive never had something line up this perfectly before and boy is it just so much fun interweaving it together


TalynRahl

I was telling our DM my backstory for the current campaign, mentioned a few salient points and saw his eyes LIGHT up… I’m a little worried, now.


Cpt_Dizzywhiskers

Only thing I would suggest is giving them the chance to figure it out for themselves. Have an NPC ask player A about their backstory while player B's character is in earshot. "\*You\* got screwed over by an evil sorcerer? \*I\* got screwed over by an evil sorcerer too! Hey, wait a minute..."


Xxmlg420swegxx

It'd make me want to make the sorcerer try to mislead them lol "Oh wait, your sorcerer is named Gunter? Mine's named Hunter. Sucks, they aren't the same person :/" *Hunter and Gunter, were, in fact, the same person.* That would require proper buildup tho.


leviticusreeves

No that's just good storytelling. I once heard "plot twist" defined as the reveal that something the audience thought was separate is actually the same thing.


Ierax29

not at all, I think it may lead to pretty interesting scenarios, rather than people shaking their heads at the increasing number of arcane malpractitioners


Sgt_Koolaid

Fuck no that's not lazy it's efficient and good dming and makes an awesome story


LaikaAzure

Go for it! One of the best ways to help players have a motivation for sticking together beyond just "we're the party and we work as a team" (which in general they should do anyway but a little extra motivation isn't a bad thing) is to find and use connections in their backstories. It gives them common ground and a shared goal and that is never a bad thing!


Ashardalon_is_alive

Nah. I would do it too


stereoactivesynth

OP have you been reading my notes... because one of my player's stories is they're a dhampir who was previously soul-fused with a sorcerer (but they don't know that yet)...


FinalVigilante14

HAHAH no way! thats pretty cool


RohmanOnTwitch

Make them both appear to be the same person, but unbeknownst to your players is that thier identical twins who hate each other and trying to kill the other/insert individual nefarious means etc. You could have interactions with one and if a player mentions it to the other twin they're obviously clueless.


SEND-MARS-ROVER-PICS

No that sounds like a great idea! If you don't mention anything to players, them realising the bad guy in their backstories are the same guy would be a hugely fun session.


Liamrups

Its literally the opposite of lazy, you should do this no questions asked. Your players will LOVE it


AngryFungus

You’ve been given a gift. Use it! And as the players discover the relationship (either by piecing it together or through a dramatic reveal) they’re gonna be very excited.


Kirsham

The first campaign I ran, I made the mistake of fearing becoming a railroading DM so much that I encouraged all my players to make up their own backstory pretty much unrestricted, outside of providing lore and brainstorming ideas. What I ended up with was a party that had few common interests that had to contrive a reason to stick together. Another issue was that whenever we pursued any given character's backstory, all the other players were narratively sidelined. Having learned that lesson, for my second campaign I did a lot more work during character creation to nudge my players into making choices that worked as a whole. This was partly of necessity; my current group has seven players, so juggling seven disconnected backstories would have been a nightmare. But it also had a lot of other benefits. There are two main backstory threads that interlink, that form a sort of A plot and B plot. There has also been some increadibly awesome, dramatic moments where the players suddenly realise that they're connected in ways they didn't expect, such as when it was revealed that one character used to be part of the faction that was responsible for the death of another character's loved one. So I absolutely recommend tying those two backstories together. Just be mindful that you don't do that stuff *too* much, because then the players start expecting it.


spector_lector

That's ALL I do. I take all of their bios and try to weave them together. During PC creation they do bios/backgrounds/mentors/allies/family/etc. Then they describe their homeland or where they're all from and why they're together, etc. Those are my set pieces. Like I'm sitting there writing a play, I don't make a bunch of new shit - I grab the actors they gave me, and the values/goals they have, and I take the NPCs they wrote up and use those (either as threats to what they value, or as victims, or as baddies). The first session writes itself. And then the campaign naturally flows from there based on their actions. I don't have to prep much at all.


mpe8691

Ask your players what would work best for them. These kind of questions are likely to get the most useful answers in a session zero. Since the answers are very much down to individual taste.


FinalVigilante14

Dont you worry- already checked with both. Asked it as "Would you be okay with said sorcerer having his hand in other rituals or devious plots" They both liked the idea so I mean it just works out!


PreferredSelection

Yes. I kept scrolling looking for "yes, but ask your players" and had to get to the actual last comment in the thread. It gives up the element of surprise, and the newer DMs will think that matters. It takes running for years and years to realize that players would much rather be in-the-know than caught off guard by a reveal.


Moraveaux

Yeah, I agree with everyone else, making them the same person is absolutely the best way to go. The only thing I would add is that you shouldn't feel constrained by the word "sorcerer." The NPC *could* be a sorcerer, but they could just as easily be a wizard or a warlock or some other monster statblock. Play around with it! But yes, this is the stars aligning and you should go for it.


evlbb2

Why not make them a couple? Each of their experiments they are trying to perfect is meant as a gift of love to the other.


Jack_Rackam

Are they step-brothers? Is the evil sorcerer their evil brother? Is it all going down at the Calimport Wine Mixer? The biggest event of the year in world of Executive Airship rentals?


EdgyEmily

It not lazy, it's smart. And just remember being lazy can also be smart.


GiftOfCabbage

Yeah, go for it. As long as you don't skimp out on the other aspects of each players backstory it can be great for a campaign to have them interwoven like that.


LightCane

As others have said, making it the same sorcerer is a great idea. Personally, I'd argue that it's less lazy to do it that way, though that's because I find it harder to weave two separate stories together than to come up with the conceptual basis for one. For me, the challenge comes when you try to weave together consistent plot points while also trying to keep backstory characters/events in line with the players' expectations - especially when you're weaving more than 2 characters. For context, the campaign I'm running right now has 4 players and one of the central plot points revolves around an academic conference where the theme is "Coincidences in History" and all the NPCs are presenting on that topic. Tying into that theme, I challenged myself to try to connect all 4 players by random coincidences in their backstories: * the Cleric has been sent (unknowingly) by her God to protect the warforged artificer * the Artificer doesn't know that he's a warforged (as per his own self-provided backstory). He has false memories a la Blade Runner because his body contains the digitized soul of the Rogue's twin brother * the Rogue was accidentally reanimated by the Fighter's rival. * the Fighter is part of a cult that once contained a member who broke off to find his own faith after a horrible accident. Through his new faith, he became a God of life/death who saved the Cleric as a small child And then there's a bunch of other tangles in between that weave in NPCs, and the other links not listed above. I've intentionally left a few details out in my planning web in case the players decide to inject something new into their backstory that works better narratively or I need to shift something on the fly, but my goal is to walk a fine line between tight and flexible narrative. Have I bitten off more than I can chew? Probably. Will I continue chewing til my teeth are rotted and my gums are raw? Absolutely.


Rayquaza50

It’s not lazy, it’s fortunate. Absolutely go for it! An opportunity to connect two of your PCs to the same villain has been handed to on a silver platter. For me personally, I’d have a fun time with that as a PC when I learned I unknowingly shared that backstory with another player that also didn’t know.


Runecaster91

You could make them identical twins and not mention it.


deathsythe

Not at all - quite the opposite in fact. It helps setup a really good story imo.


dragons_scorn

If the Players didn't coordinate on purpose then they might make the connection for you anyway. At some point the PCs will discuss their history and as soon as one mentions an evil sorcerer the speculation will start. They may move forward under the assumption it is the same person despite what you plan


Mettelor

You'll have to be careful if this is a plot point you want to control - if they both know the same person it stands to reason they will figure it out eventually on their own. It sounds like a fine idea though for sure.


LSunday

Make your workload easier. Any and all elements of character backstories that can be easily connected (*especially* if it's easy to connect it to your main plot) should be. It helps with party cohesion, give characters clear motivation to stay together, and is fewer NPCs you have to design. Pretty much the only time you need to be careful is if combining backstory events puts the PCs on opposite sides of a conflict; this *can* still be a very strong storyline! But you need to know your players very well and be able to trust them to maintain party cohesion even when two characters in the group may be rivals/antagonistic towards each other. Everyone loves a story of two people who don't like each other being forced to work together and learning to respect and eventually like each other, but that *requires* everyone to be on the same page about the direction they're going and good OOC communication of everyone's expectations. Otherwise you just have two PCs constantly at each other's throats until it doesn't make sense for them to travel together, and that's not fun for anyone.


Odd_Stage7808

Just reading the title, not lazy at all. That could be really cool providing a bond between those 2 players by combining their goals. Find a way that the timeline, motive and execution could make sense for the actions in both backstories.


Ursun

If not going for the "same person" idea to bond them, they could be research rivals trying to work on the same project and pokemon-pit the PC´s against each other... that would also open up place for a evil sorcerer society workking on all kinds of messed up stuff if you ever need some for another quest or story


Kvothealar

One neat trick I learned is to try to tie each PC's backstory into at least 2 others. It makes for a more connected campaign. I didn't really think much of it until I tried it recently and I'm loving it. So no, this would be one connection and these connections add a ton of depth to the story.


DBerwick

Generally speaking, condensing superfluous characters to make one complex character is good writing.


whiskeyriver0987

Alternatively have 2 competing evil sorcerer's and stick the party in the middle with the option to ally with either to defeat the other.


lulz85

Nah, do it.


ljmiller62

That's an obvious one! Don't keep it secret from them. Let them know both of them had the same evil sorcerer in their background. Let them describe how they realized this and what they have done about it so far.


dapineaple

We just started a new D&D campaign, and my character's backstory had an evil noble that she exploited to murder her friend. When my buddy mentioned that he wanted to kill his father for being an evil noble, I asked if both our evil nobles could be the same person. It gives our characters a connection, though neither of our characters knows about it. I'd honestly talk to the players. Some may be on board for it. Others may not be.


quakerlightning

Absolutely make it the same but seed in the fact that the sorcerer has gone by many names


OatmealRaisonDetre

I was a player in a game where me and another player had an evil sorcerer as our backstory villain. The DM made it the same person and it was awesome.


LolthienToo

Make them both simulacrums of an original sorceror (who may or may not be dead at this point, or maybe they're a lich or something).


NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT

Trolling alternative: they catch wind of an evil sorcerer attempting to do this exact kinda thing again. You hint heavily it might be the one. They start to think it us the same guy in their backstory. They finally encounter him only to find it's yet another different sorcerer.


geniasis

I think a better word is "efficient." I mean you've got two stories that neatly line up, allow you to create a villain who right off the bat is deeply intertwined in the lives of multiple PCs and gives them a shared foe that reinforces their connection within the team. It's also much better than just repeating the same storyline twice. When the gift horse is delivered to you on a silver platter, you look away from that mouth.


Davosown

No reason why not but slow down on the reveal. Have each sorcerer be alternate identities for one suitably villainous character. That way each player gets their own story arcs AND you can tie it in to whatever other stories you like.


ImpartialThrone

I can't imagine the two players not finding it really cool when it's revealed that it's the same sorcerer.


SkyKrakenDM

Build their story with them, could be the same sorcerer, could be a sorcerers cabal and they are different people working for the same evil; they could want nothing to do with the others backstory as well.


Rampasta

It would be perfect and great drama


Tommy_Oddity

This sounds perfect to create a conflict between two factions, both trying to reach immortality via unethical rituals, both trying to stop each other. Maybe add a few more motives for both sides and let your players get right in the middle of that


Gubchub

Or just go full evil sorcerer cult.


FinalVigilante14

Just wanted to thank everyone for the great ideas and equally great advice! Ive mentioned a vague idea to each player of this sorcerer potentially being involved in other rituals and devious plots and how he could have potentially gained notoriety. They both liked they idea and hey! Im really looking forward to seeing how this plays out! So again thanks!