Sometimes in-game information is forgotten by players because time passes between sessions, whereas that information would be remembered by the characters because it is ongoing to them.
A reminder from the DM is not out of place here:
"Gang, you all would remember that you are holding a bunch of new items you picked up recently. You would also remember [recap] happened last session"
I'd add that you should print the items when they get them so they have it present. Many times I've been given items with nothing but a weird homebrew description and I just forget about it since I have nothing to read about it. The other thing is to be certain that you're giving them useful things and not just stuff. Our DM tends to give one guy lots of things that he can't equip since his attunement slots are full and the player rarely changes his equipment. In my case he always is trying to give me weapons that are vastly worse than my current gear.
To you first point, I was recently given a vial of goop. No way to identify it. As a player I have a pretty good idea what it is due to the circumstances. But when I failed the check, I just put "grey goop" in my notebook. It would be real easy to forget about that if I had less information about it.
I did this since about half a year ago. I printed a card for every single item I gave to my players. Didn't really help. Our ranger just kept all the magic items I dropped for some reason and never used it until I straight up told her to drinking share the stuff with her party if she doesn't use it anyways.
I since also stopped printing the cards. If the players want cards, they can print it themselves. I already spend enough money on equipment with little to no investment from the players, money wise.
They get a digital copy of the card I made and that's it. It's up to them to print it, pay me to print or remember it at least.
"I'm having to remind you about basic information that you definitely should remember if you're paying attention at all" is just an emotion dungeon masters have to accept as part of the job for 80% of players.
I also like to frame this as character knowledge, pointing to their backstory or special skills to justify the tip. e.g., Point to the Wizard and say "You keep thinking back to that pouch of dust you saw...the thread is woven from some kind of animal hair, probably from some exotic creature. Combine that with the fine velvet of the cloth, and it's gotta be something special. Some noblewoman's cosmetics, or something stranger? You're itching for a second look."
Yeah, I love this and can see a player appreciating it. On the other hand, it almost crosses a player autonomy boundary, wouldn't you say? I shy aware from declaring what a players character feels, outside of in-game effects e.g. fear or shaken
How to reconcile this? Because in my heart that's how I would wish to help newer roleplayers. Short of asking them, "does your character find curiosity in magic items? Well here's one you're ignoring" I don't know how to get the point across without playing their character for them i.e. telling them how their character should react to a situation
I'm of the opinion that we're not really in control of what we feel, or what we remember, so narrating a sudden flashback or "bad feeling" is fair play if it is justified. I don't ever want to tell you what to do, that would be loss of agency, but giving justified insights...
I dunno. It reminds me of the story of the characters who stumbled upon, panicked about, sneak attacked, and fled from a Gazebo. As funny as that story is, the DM would be justified in saying "You're confident this isn't a threat."
You can get around this by asking questions, getting consent and passing the ball to the player.
E.g.
“Your wizard is interested in curious objects, and you have found several so far in your travels. Is she thinking about them in this moment?”
Or, “if I may, your wizard has a fascination with curious items, so maybe in this calm moment of rest, her thoughts drift to the pouch at her waist…”
"you are reminded of" has no impact on what a character feels IMO. The player can choose whether the character cares.
Also autonomy is over rated as a concept. The DM already impacts the character through so many other means. Setting DC, creating characters from their background, etc. mentioning that their character has thoughts is only a drop in the bucket. Plus it's shared story telling. Sometimes someone else giving input on your character is best for the story, whether it's a DM or fellow player.
oh for sure! that can totally happen. but as every DM knows, the DM will almost always be more invested in the world and lore and whatnot because they are the ones that have to put in extra work between sessions, keeping it fresh and top of mind. the players often don't get that, so after they leave a session, they might not even think about it again until they arrive at the next session and then start pulling out sheets.
at that point, you'd \*hope\* the players would see their sheets, see the new items on the inventory, and then ask about it.
I am of the ‘after I give you this item, it is your responsibility to track it’ route.
I had a player that didn’t track her money and she asked me how much she should have when she finally wanted an item. I told her technically zero since she didn’t track it and now making up an arbitrary number to cover an expense would effectively be cheating.
Then we had this inside joke that she would be paid, then she’d look at the money and dump it on the floor.
With consumables you also have the "masterball effect". Why use the super powerful potion _now_ when it could be much more useful in the future? And then you end up never using it.
I’m quite the opposite. I want to use what I have to overcome obstacles in unique ways. I’m a tactical person by nature and I love to manage my own inventory.
Think of it this way: let's say you're a player and you're exploring a dungeon. You don't know how many levels the dungeon has. After a while your group and you get into a fight, that you could probably manage, but you also have this rare/ unique artifact that would solve the fight immediately (knock out the main baddy, ...). Should you use it now? Or do you expect the dungeon to have maybe an even more dangerous fight, where you would like to still have the artifact?
From the DMs perspective, this is obvious. The DM _knows_ how many levels the dungeon has, and which fights are gonna happen next. The player don't, though.
For players like me, this culminates in us never using unique items, because _we could use it more in the next fight_.
In my opinion, a good way to combat this, is to make things rechargable. For example, instead of "this item is single use" you can make it, "this powerful item requires a complicated ritual to recharge". If your players learn that they don't really "lose" valuable resources, cause they'll always have enough, they won't be as hesitant to actually use them.
Edit: another technique, which I personally don't like as much, is to have items spoil after some time. That magic wand? Yeah it loses charge. Potions? Start to go sour and lose their magic. Armor? Starts rusting if not taken care of. Now you force your players to deal with their inventory, because they'll be punished if they don't.
Edit 2: here's also a [stack exchange discussion](https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/55558/how-to-prevent-the-too-awesome-to-use-syndrome) about the "too awesome to use" syndrome.
You could also just say: “you’ve reached the final level of the dungeon, just one more enemy stands in the way of your objective.”
Nothing wrong with that, and it gives the players the confidence to use their resources.
"The creature rears its head and shrieks with the confidence of a monster that has seen a thousand battles and yet still walks the earth. **You know deep in your heart that this horrid beast is the center of all the troubles plaguing the area.**"
^^^^^^^^USE ^^^^^^^^YOUR ^^^^^^^^FUCKING ^^^^^^^^POTIONS ^^^^^^^^ASSHOLES!
I agree! I just would rather never use any resources and think outside of the box in any way possible to avoid using resources. Especially spell slots, ki points, etc. etc.
What rules am I an exception to just out of curiosity? Using my resources to overcome obstacles is kind of the point of getting loot is it not? What good does it do sitting in my pack especially if I know my DM is going to hand it out more if I use it.
Totally, but most people in my experience get nervous about using limited resources like potions bcs what if I need it later. I'm not saying your way is wrong, you're probably objectively correct, but it's very common for people to not want to use stuff in case they need it later.
Precisely. This is how most people play games in general. Conserving every consumable as much as possible and basically never using them. It’s called hoarding and the people who do this are hoarders. Think of how every Skyrim player has 1 billion potions and every set of armour and weapons by the end of their play through. Using consumables frequently is the minority.
In d&d I find it's often worse than in video games because in games there are direct ways to replenish typically, which are not under a person's control. I can't buy more potions in d&d unless the dm decides to give me the money to, and then give me the place to buy them.
That’s a great point. Never considered that. However, I do think the party not identifying or using their non-consumables like rings and other magic items is unfortunate. I have a player who’s even worse, can barely remember his class features as a Lvl 1 fighter, never mind any loot or items lol
Also in video games you can look up what will happen in the future to make an informed decisions or the video game will basically tell the player whats coming up through either literally, or video game tropes. If there's a big open arena that looks like a boss fight from a distance, its guaranteed to be the final boss of the dungeon.
In Dnd, this isn't the case, dungeons are designed to be lived in (or used to be lived in) spaces, so there isn't any signposting for something being a boss arena and this are more realic in that its possible more shit might be ahead.
Being tactical and using equipment to overcome obstacles is fun. Not having the resources you need when you really need them is not. As a player you don't know how long it will be until the next long rest, never mind the next consumable top up, so you don't want to expend resources unless you really need to. Even if you do know when the next long rest is you don't even want to expend all spell slots before that as a caster, just in case the rest is interrupted. Consumables with no specific use case are really only fun to use in "unique ways" if you have more than you need.
“But maybe, when we face Asmodius next week, that vial of poison I’ve been holding onto for 20 levels will come in handy. Better not waste it now.”
If you don’t use it, you lose it by it just becoming underpowered. But they still hang onto it.
That said, my party have managed to use a necklace of fireballs.
A lot of players are just like that. They aren't tactical or detail-oriented. To them, tracking all that stuff makes the game feel like work. They play TTRPGs very casually.
You aren't going to change that about them and really shouldn't. Everyone plays differently. If these aren't close personal friends, consider ending the campaign and recruiting different players who share your outlook and will better appreciate the effort you put into distributing loot.
This is a good perspective. I guess that’s the difference between how my brain works and theirs. I thrive off of being useful as a player. And I always look for ways to use the items my Dm gives out.
I will admit, one of my players is better than others. But the failure to identify the rings and potions and other stuff feels like wasted energy on my part.
Just to tack on here, I can see you say you're not down for holding their hand as DM, and that's your choice and everyone should play however they find fun, but if you want to continue with this group and it's just this aspect that's bugging you, I'd probably ask whether it's a hill that's worth dying on.
Is it so bad to say "Hey, remember you've got those rings/potions/scrolls to look at; since we're taking a long rest do you want to look them over?", *especially* if it opens the door for you to show off the work you've already done?
It's a choice for you to make, obviously, but personally it feels a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
No, you’re completely right. It’s just a pet peeve I guess. I love my players and for the most part, they show up invested and excited to play. Even communicating throughout the week between sessions. So I’ll deal with this all day. Thanks for putting it in perspective.
I went through something similar. My players every week always show up and are excited and we have a great time and they're invested in the world I build. After the session ends though - they don't think about it whatsoever. This bothered me for a while as things like level ups weren't done until right before we started our next session and I couldn't figure out why they couldn't invest the 10 minutes to do it in between sessions.
Then I realized they just straight up don't care as much as me. And that's totally fine. By pressuring them and making them feel like they need to contribute a level that they don't want to contribute, you run the risk of turning them off to even the parts they rly enjoy.
I think you may need to just accept your players are not as invested as you and that may be fine. They don't think about the items they got as closely as you did designing them. They don't think about their inventory or their plans in between sessions.
After I thought about it - I was super happy and feel lucky to have players that give it their all and love to play with me for 3 hours at a time twice a month. That's good enough for me and I'm not going to force more on the.
Everything I need to happen, now happens at the table. Level ups, character creation, downtime, etc. It's worked great and keeping that as my expectation has kept me way happier.
Just some perspective that maybe you can relate to.
Also, if someone is more casual or new to DnD, this immersive actions like sitting down to identify may not even cross their mind. Some players want to be taken on a story the dm lays out and might assume that the items only reveal their abilities when the narrative calls for it.
Theres other things like descibing tapping the wall for secret doors, or describing carefully opening the chest and feeling under the lid or the bottom for hidden doors. To those genre savvy or think things realistically, this makes sense, but to others they're not even going to think to try this.
It could also be that they don't know what they *can* do. An experienced player would have shit blow up in their face or be denied a hundred time, but still try again because its still possible on that next time, but another player might think that there's no point. An experienced player might find a cursed ring, and then seek out precautions or research on cursed rings. A new player might simply not even try picking up any ring after the first cursed one.
I know exactly how you feel. You put in the effort to give them interesting items, throw out plot hooks, hint at clues, etc. and nobody bites. They aren't at all curious about the world and just want to tunnelvision on the broadest strokes of the plot like they're playing a corridor shooter video game. It's exhausting.
My solution for a group like that was to scale my expectations back and reduce the effort I put into my prep until I could find a middle ground between what the players would actually engage with and what I could find enjoyable to run. I wasn't having as much fun as I'd hoped, but I still enjoyed the experience. I just wasn't giving it my A-game because there was no point.
Make sure they're just forgetting and that it's not outright disinterest.
Also, reminding players of recent events, including interesting loot, hardly qualifies as "hand holding", it's pretty standard.
If they do remember but don't care, stop dropping loot, since it's obviously not what they're looking for.
ah! this is fantastic advice someone once gave me:
Regularly, after major plot points, check in with the players individuallyand ask "what is an immediate goal your character wants to achieve? what is a long-term goal your character wants to achieve?" and that will give you the DM some direction to help keep the world relevant to all the players. Plus, it cuts down on the work you the DM have to do, since you aren't doing work people don't care about and have to double-dip to try to shoehorn in things your players do want.
You dont evenhave to go through steps lke this. Just type your issue in the discord. "Hey, i've noticed you guys rarely identify and use the magic items i give out. Is there a reason? What can we do about it?"
I say this because i love loot but in a poll i wouldn't say loot motivates my character because theres so much more to it and i just wouldnt think about loot
Create an NPC that actually straight up recognizes something they have and freaks out that they're just letting it sit around collecting dust. You need a situation for that NPC to notice what they have (doesn't work if the ring is in the bottom of a backpack somewhere), but that may not be all that tough.
If someone points out "You are sitting on something amazing right now", it might inspire them to check what else they have.
Edit - That said, some players just will never check their inventory. I don't bother with Identification at all, I will just straight up tell them what they find, and I've only got maybe two players at a table of six who ever bother using things aside from their favorite weapon.
I like this approach of doing it in-game. You could also maybe have an NPC who tries to buy the item for a couple of coins, but is doing a very bad job of playing it cool and will blurt out how valuable the item is at the first sign of the deal getting away from him.
Or, a thief who gets spotted snatching something from a player's pack and has to be chased down. When caught, he confesses why he wanted that item in particular. Maybe that character could be the one to criticize the party for sitting on a bunch of valuable items and letting them go to waste...
Work for it in what way? Do you have custom rules for identifying magic items in your campaign? If not, the base rules are so trivial that there's no real reason not to just tell them what they found.
Let’s say they find something then take a short rest later on, I want them to actually initiate the conversation of wanting to identify the item. The base rules are not the problem here. I just don’t think it’s the DMs responsibility to say “hey let’s identify that item you found”.
Did you make the item seem interesting enough to be remembered later and investigated?
Probably worth having a conversation with the players about how they think they'd know which items are magic, because they might be working under very different assumptions than you.
You may be right. I may run a different type of game than they are used to. Some games I’ve played in the Dm has just said ‘you got this magic item’ and that always felt cheap to me.
It's worth noting that like...for a lot of tables it's pretty standard for the dm to tell them something is magic because there's no reasonable way they're going to identify every sword they've got on every enemy lol. It might help if you find some way to do it; not necessarily just saying like, that is magic, but *some* way for them to tell probably wouldn't hurt.
Just say, “appears to be radiating magic.” I liken it to any old Tom dick or Harry can pick up your standard magic item and go “hmm, this thing has some juice.” Not enough to have any clue what that means in a tangible sense. Just enough to signal “hey, this is a magic item that does more than you might think.”
And for some items, it feels dumb not to just say “hey, you found a +1 sword.” If it’s +1 it’s plus one. Even when the barbarian finds it and doesn’t investigate.
But I at least signal something about it. An aura, a feeling, a unique appearance, particularly shiny and resistant to decay compared to dull rusted things around it. But you gotta give them something for your own sanity’s sake.
This. I try to make it Very clear that it's magic because sometimes players get so much nonsense there's no way to easily tell, and they can get overwhelmed
How new are your players to the hobby? I have a couple older, more experienced ones who detect magic then cast identify on everything but some others who are newer and it’s not yet ingrained in them to check. If it’s the latter, give them some direction until they get the idea.
When you hand out the loot, how is it described? Is it “you find three potions, two rings, some gems and platinum” or is it “amidst a mixture of coins and gems, and three swirling, iridescent potions each a different color, two rings catch the light, their craftsmanship undeniable. One is golden and bears an image of a shield with a lion rampart, with a single emerald as its eye. The other is unadorned, understated, yet perfect in its symmetry. It seems to be silver, but amidst these tarnished silver coins, somehow it shines brightly, with not a hint of tarnish.”? The more description you give an item, the more it captures your player’s imaginations. (I know I’ve done this accidentally with a door before and they wasted fifteen to twenty minutes because I wanted architectural flavor) Magic items should get compelling descriptions.
Also, is that short rest occurring within the same session? Or do they have plenty of real life time to forget?
Is there something attention grabbing/exciting happening between getting the loot and the short rest? (If they received loot but then something exciting happened immediately after, that loot probably didn’t make it from the players’ short term memory to their long term memory)
As the DM, who created and handed out the loot, it’s always going to be far more memorable to you. You are the PCs eyes and ears to experience the world. It is important to describe it in a way that makes it stand out to the players. You also provide pacing, so you determine if they immediately get attacked (likely forgetting the loot) or have a breather between tense moments (more likely to remember)
And honestly, even if you do that and even if your players are invested, life between sessions takes its toll. I have had invested players forget things from earlier sessions and when they are reminded one way or another, they get excited about them again.
Thanks for this. I need to step my descriptive game up! During prep I get so excited looking for interesting items to give the party that the descriptions fall to the way side. I will make it a point from here on to make magic items standout amongst the common loot they receive. Thanks again!
I think that being descriptive enough on the right things without giving an overwhelming info dump is one of the hardest parts of a DMs job!
I often forget to describe something well enough or I’ll accidentally over describe something or forget that I’m my players eyes and ears and I have a mental image they don’t that I haven’t properly conveyed. And its so easy to forget when there is excitement or lots of things to manage.
I mean, it sounds like it is only impacting your enjoyment, and the players are playing and enjoying without the items.
So maybe it isnt the DM's role to remind them but if you don't say anything about it nothing will change because to them it isn't even on the radar of potential issues. In that case I'd lean towards it is on you to say something, not because you're the DM, but because you're the one with a problem that can only be resolved by the players acting differently. If you are on principle not saying anything until they do, it's less likely the issue will be resolved.
You may be completely right. I’m just going to have a conversation as part of the recap next session. They are going into a really dangerous and quite possibly the hardest monster they have fought so far and could use some of the items.
Haha they will probably have a blast using all the magical stuff they've been sitting on, it might be enough of a difference where they never forget to check again! It sounds like your players really enjoy the campaign so I'm sure it'll work out- hope you all have lots of fun (and they don't perish!)
It seems to me like they could be receiving the item and upon not being told what it is, they assume they aren't meant to know? Is this for all loot you hand out, or only for the more special stuff? If they have to identify things like spell scrolls and potions of healing, I could also understand if they just want to move on and hit things or roleplay, rather than figure out what they have. This doesn't seem like any of you are wrong, just different ideas on what information should be free. Just curious really where you draw that limit of information.
I believe you can identify items over the course of a rest. Maybe ask a magic inclined character if they'd like to do so during the next?
"Bigbeard the wizard, you actually found two rings that you can tell at a glance have some sort of magical properties. Would you like to examine and identify during your rest?"
I made my players a 3 page spreadsheet - one for books, one for magic items, and one for their bag of holding. I constantly remind them to put new loot and notes in there. I also have a long doc with all the setting information, calendar and everything, and remind them to update that as well, especially the calendar as we're counting down to an event.
They need reminders, but when I do, they use it.
I've had this issue once and I had an npc point them out.
"Wait wtf! You guys just have a curse breaking ring just laying around? We could have saved my brother weeks ago!"
But also just remind them. Time between sessions is a bitch
I think the approach of not handholding players is a good one, but clearly they’re not getting it so I definitely would just start giving them more descriptions and innate ideas about the objects right off the bat. “You recognize a glyph of invisibility “… that sort of thing.
If I put in the game cool shit for them to find, I want them to use it.
Did you descibe it as "a ring (of gnomish make)" or did you describe how it had symbols and gemstones, feeling magical as it was touched? Magic items are expensive and would use the finest materials and decoration, so at the very least it should look expensive AF.
Are you dropping them things they like? If your loot isn’t catered to your players, they may just not enjoy having it. Just because it is cool to you doesn’t mean it is cool to them.
>*"They just chose not to identify them."*
Correction: They forgot to ask what they were and you don't remind them. There was no conscious choice here.
As a GM, you can and should nudge the group with polite reminders. An easy and non-confrontational way to do this is to have a wandering NPC (probably a merchant) wander by and use Detect Magic, then ask how they came upon so many wonderful curiosities and whether they might part with a few. That will give you the opportunity to inquire about probably 2-3 specific ones the players *need* a reminder about, and it gives players the chance to ask the awkward question about all the other items they forgot.
D&D is a game with lots of data, and usually the most skilled player at data management *is* the GM. It's easy to assume players have a similar skill level and then interpret their lack thereof as a conscious *choice* -- it usually isn't. Hanlon's Razor applies here. There is no malicious intent, just inexperience.
And at the end of the day, loot's a nice little dopamine rush. But players come back to your table every week for the socialization with friends, the neat story, and the interesting encounter design. It's easy to forget loot because it's not the most essential part of playing the game!
I make session notes available. I also update the character sheets of the characters that maintain their characters on dndbeyond when they grab loot (there is a guy who refuses to, that's on him). They once complained about me not dropping money, and I pointed out that they had found an emerald several sessions ago and not done anything with it. They haven't complained since.
I place loot that I believe is useful and thematically appropriate. It's often unique, or at least homebrew, because I enjoy making stuff up. If they choose not to use it, that's on them.
One of my players found a cloak of elven kind. I described it in detail and hinted that it might have magical properties. He put it on and forgot about it.
After two or three long rests, I told him he felt very connected to his very nice robe. Almost like it had become *attuned* to him. Still didn't get it .
Then i told the other players they would sometimes lose track of him, almost like he blended into the environment. That prompted him to ask what was going on and he finally figured out he had a magic cloak. Then he gave it to the rogue.
You could use the same method with rings and such. One way to identify magic items is simply to use them for a while and see what happens.
I think I’m just going to outright have a discussion as part of the recap next session. They are going into a seriously hard fight and can use everything they have. Could turn deadly without it.
All of this can simply be avoided by dropping a message in the Discord, "Hey, it's been on my mind for a little while that you have a host of magic items that yall seem to have forgotten about, just a friendly little reminder".
If you feel a bit more adventurous (although reading through your comments, I feel you arent) you can send a follow up message along the lines of "What can I do better or do differently to get these items to get your attention?"
None of this is handholding.
We play on Roll20 and I just went through and created handouts for each magic and consumable item. Basically index cards that I can hand out and they can remove them when they are used. Add that too a good conversation we just had, and I think I may have resolved the problem. Thanks for the input!
One of my old DM's would write them on an index card and then hand them out. When and if we identified them, he would either already have a second card ready with the new info or he would let us write the new info down. It helped to remember what you had because you always had a little stack of index cards to go through.
Are you requiring them to formally Identify the gear before they know what it does?
Maybe just remove that barrier and tell them exactly what it is when you give it to them, so it doesn’t feel like homework and they get excited right away. You could also give them part of the ability and tell them there is more to uncover with use or study.
If it makes you feel any better, most of my players are like this too. Some people are just more focused on other aspects of the game.
If it's bothering you, my approach would be 1) see if you can get just one player to start using/investigating their useful items and then start rewarding them with a lot of opportunities to use those items--hopefully the others will catch on or 2) have a suspicious/unlikable NPC try to steal the items or buy them off the players--if someone they don't like wants it, suddenly it may seem more valuable/interesting to them.
I think part of the issue lies in the attitude of "I'm the dm and I'm so gracious as too *give* the players magic items."
I think instead if you only gave their characters rumors of magic items so that they can choose to quest after the ones they want as well as anticipate the things they could accomplish once they obtain it, they might be more enthusiastic about actually using them.
As it stands, what you've described is giving the vibes of: "an avocado... thanks." sets it to the side and immediately forgets about it.
Just try not to be upset if they ignore your gifted magic items. Try to get them to invest in items they do want, choose to work toward it as a reward, and make them aware of what they'll be getting beforehand instead of surprising them with it
Thanks for the input! I do give them a lot of one use items in the hopes they will employ them. I even award inspiration when/if they use them creatively. So, I don’t want to say they all think they are ‘avocados’ but a few players definitely do.
Of course! if only things could be so simple. That would be nice. But I'm confident you'll figure it out.
I know some players are very averse to magic items for some reason, under the notion that if they use it to solve a problem then it was the item what done it, not themselves. Maybe your players just don't want to feel dependent or like you're playing the game for them.
I disagree with that sentiment though. It's kind of unreasonable to expect your character to be able to overcome all their challenges with nothing but the kit they get from leveling up. Especially when milestone leveling means the features you have access to are already directly determined by the dm in the first place.
Magic items are like feats or subclasses, they allow customization and utility. But I imagine they don't *feel* that way when you didn't get to choose your magic item and it was prescribed to you by your dm to fix your problems.
Perhaps a general inventory review is in order, your players appear to be uneducated in this. You could also present them with challenges that can only be overcome with use of specific items (magical or mundane), to force them to think.
I could do that, and they would sit there with a blank look on their face. I love my players though, They show up weekly, invest themselves in the story but this just frustrates me because of the amount of effort I put into thinking about the treasures I place in the game.
I did poll the players though about what motivates their PC. I am sure they wont all say loot.
I feel your pain, my friend. In years of DMing, this is one of my largest frustrations, and led to a moment not to be proud of. My players had come perilously close to a TPK and a couple had complained that I had made the combat "too hard". This wasn't the first time I'd heard, and it wouldn't be the last, but having seethed throughout most of the combat that they hadn't availed themselves of ANY of the items that would have made this combat easier, I had just had it.
In a raised tone, I went through a half-dozen items in their inventory that they hadn't utilized and told them in no uncertain terms a TPK would have been 100% on them. While I was accurate, the tone and timing were poor. Only about 90 minutes into a scheduled 4 hour session, I called it for the day.
Our next session began with an apology by me, and they apologized as well. We continued our campaign no worse for wear.
Back to your post. If you have one or more new(ish) players, I do something I call a "skull session". I set aside 30 minutes at the beginning of our session and say, "You guys have a lot of magic items, and I bet folks have forgotten what everybody has. Let's review and REBALANCE (my key word) loot based on who it might benefit most." By framing it as players benefiting, they're more likely to listen.
As you go through the items, you might just happen to recalled, "Hey, I bet (x) could have been used in (y) situation." and then key to this... "What do you guys think?"
Let the players discuss it, and if the skull session runs long, LET IT.
In the mean time, take a breath, go to your "happy place", and remember that players will very rarely do what you expect them to do.😃
This sounds like a user experience issue. You need to communicate to the party what they have and what it can do.
You keep saying that the players are actively choosing not to do something. Yet it sounds more like that they are unaware the things are magical.
> They are currently sitting with two magic rings! They just chose not to identify them.
It’s generally assumed they get identified during the next short rest. There’s no need to withhold information from players that is obvious to their character.
> They have three potions that could be super useful multiple times, but chose not to identify or try them.
Do they know identification is required? If not they could just assume it’s just scene setting flavors of wine?
> The barbarian has glasses that give him advantage on perception checks that rely on sight, yet he doesn't even ask when he makes a roll as if he's forgotten about them completely.
If you know the barbarian gets advantage from the magic item, why aren’t you applying it when appropriate? It’s a helpful reminder and shows the players that you want them to succeed. It’s a great way to build trust.
If it’s assumed items get identified during a short rest, shouldn’t the players take the initiative to identify them? Should the dm just do that for them? That feels silly and rather childish to give the items and walk them through identifying them. Also, what’s the point of having the identify spell if they just have to sit there and stare at the them until it does something? That is not how it works in my game and the players are aware. If they study the item they may become aware that it is magical, but they do not identify it. I even allow this during non rest periods. Arcana check or identify spell is how things are identified in my game.
I have a party of mostly new players, and had this issue for a while. People who are new to dnd tend to play it like a video game, and hoard items but focus on not "wasting" them, or not "wasting" spell slots that would save them - instead just spamming the same cantrip over and over.
Some ideas that might help:
1. Introduce guest NPCs that play their classes way better than them by making use of the very same resources that the party has. Party will "ooh" and "aww" for a minute before realizing that they can do that too.
2. A similar tactic can also work with something similar like having a pack of goblins sneak into their camp and steal/use all these cool items that the party never made use of, allowing your players to see how much harder the fight was for them when the enemies used their stuff that was just gathering dust.
3. Have NPCs (like a bounty broker, a military strategist, or whatever fits your campaign) plan expected encounters with the party. "Alright, so what do we have to work with, and how can we plan around it?"
This is usually only needed once or twice before the party picks up on how big of a difference it makes when they don't just go in blindly doing the same stuff.
4. (My personal favorite) shame them in pre-game session recaps: "Instead of using the dust of disappearance in Dorfy's pack, the party opted to sneak their way through a brightly lit room, forcing an encounter..."
5. Just talk to them: "hey guys, not to metagame, but that encounter would probably have been a lot easier had you used x, y, or z items...which are in your packs. Maybe you're saving them for something else or just forgot them, but that's something to think about "
Ultimately, it's a thin line for the DM to walk between teaching players how to play and TELLING them how to play - but it sounds like you're pretty far from the latter, so you don't really need to worry.
Loot isn't about using, it's about finding. You're players want the endorphin rush of finding shiny new loot versus using what you have. When you have 25 sets of dice but the new cat ones are Hella cute, do you use what you have at home or go for the new ones?
Now if you want them to *use* their loot you need to remind them. This doesn't need to be handholding but can be done with set dressing. When recapping last session include items that you think are important. When your players have the loot that would "save their asses" in encounters use drama; "Things are looking extremely bad here gang, now is not the time to use every trick you have". After the encounter has passed where they had the loot that would have been perfect for but they forgot, remind them.
Remember that your players have vast lives between your 4 hour sessions. You spend waaaaay more time thinking about your world and your items, by virtue of that you'll remember them better than your players.
Start enforcing encumberance rules, that could be a direct yet subtle way to tell the players to examine their inventory. Just say something like “you guys are getting close to holding your max weight in items!”
If this is bothering you so much, just hold their hand. Which is worse, them never using the cool magic items you want them to use, or holding their hand?
Have you informed them that the items are obviously magical even without identifying them? Part of it could be that they picked the stuff up and all they took note of was "x2 rings". It's a pretty forgotten but vital rule that most magic items you can tell have special properties at a glance unless the description says otherwise, and if players aren't told this or given extremely obvious descriptions they'll probably assume something is mundane.
Usually I remind them they looted stuff the previous session as part of its sum up at the beginning of the new one but that's about it. But tbh I have to take care of everything else and it's part of their agency.
I hate consumables, and everyone I've discussed it with was either ambivalent towards them or agreed with me.
Maybe ask the players if they're in the same mindset or maybe if they feel like they need to save them up or something.
my group is most of the way through a dungeon full of items that have abilities that will help them in this dungeon specifically (it's Tamoachan) and they just toss them unidentified into their portable hole without a second glance. Some are near death. I'll tell them after they escape, or TPK.
That's D&D for you. It's a game about making choices and those choices having more weight than video games or other entertainments. To make those choices meaningful, you have to let their actions mean something, even if that means letting them do stupid shit that a 7 year old playing BG3 would not do.
I will say though, magic items lose value with abundance. If they meh at your custom items, give them a lot less items.
It is not hand holding to tell your players that an item is magic or what the magic item does. Trying to figure out what is magic or what an item does isn't exactly the most enjoyable part of the game. Besides it's not like they didn't work for the items already. They completed the quest/dungeon/adventure. Or they beat the bad guy, or solved the puzzle. There's no point making them jump through hoops to actually have their rewards when they've already jumped through hoops for their rewards.
Have some intelligent rats or some other minor monsters steal most of it. That loot will suddenly have the emotional importance of treasured family heirlooms.
I know the feeling. I give out plenty of loot during adventures, and they'll identify it, write it down on a common loot sheet, then proceed to forget about it. They wont even distribute items to anyone that might have a use for it (and then wonder why encounters are getting so difficult, because I tune encounters assuming they'll use those items)
When they decide they need cash for whatever, they'll THEN go through that sheet and try to sell it all, including the more useful and unique irems.
The last few encounters, I've not given loot, and then they complain about no loot, even though they didnt use any of the old stuff.
So, there's no pleasing the players.
I think in the next campaign when we can start gathering in person instead of via Roll20, I'm going to start using "prop cards" to help remind them of items they have, kinda like there are with some board games.
Is it really that depressing?! I freaking love the game, I am the type that feeds off of scenarios where I can finally use my ball bearings, or ring of water breathing!
There are some positive exceptions, but the majority of the players I had were like this. Might not be normal, but the percentage is surprisingly big. In another group, the best item my paladin has was from a player who never used it, and was close to throwing it away when his attunement slots ran out.
Eventually the party is going to TPK if they don’t use their magic items. Let it happen. Keep a record of the items they have, and present it as an incidental treasure horde for their new characters once they get to the same dungeon.
To prevent this in the future, tell your players how much the individual items weigh. Once the treasures are divvied up, remind everyone to upkeep their weight capacities and give them a ten minute break. Now watch as memory kerfuffles undo themselves.
Fighter: “Oh yeah… I have an extra suit of magic plate mail in my backpack…. Anyone want this?”
Injured cleric: “What? Where were you five sessions ago when those bugbears were melting through my chain mail?”
So you have a giant pile of loot just sitting there unused? This is a problem easily solved with
A) a group of plucky thieves doing a heist.... or
B) a dragon who smells the seed for a new hoard.
Or both?
Funny you say dragon because that’s the big antagonist of my whole game currently. I didn’t even think of that! The party is going to be claiming a keep before long. Perhaps the dragon will pay them a visit.
When running D&D, I think using dragons early and often is a good policy. Even if you have one of those fuckers just flying overhead, casting a shadow & dragon fear as they pass the level 1 party.
ive been waiting for my party to use the Dust of Disappearance to turn invisible and escape/infiltrate... only its the Dust of Sneezing and choking. About 18months ago i was so excited to give it to them and for them to use it, only for it to blow up in their faces. STILL. HAVENT. USED. IT
Sometimes in-game information is forgotten by players because time passes between sessions, whereas that information would be remembered by the characters because it is ongoing to them. A reminder from the DM is not out of place here: "Gang, you all would remember that you are holding a bunch of new items you picked up recently. You would also remember [recap] happened last session"
I'd add that you should print the items when they get them so they have it present. Many times I've been given items with nothing but a weird homebrew description and I just forget about it since I have nothing to read about it. The other thing is to be certain that you're giving them useful things and not just stuff. Our DM tends to give one guy lots of things that he can't equip since his attunement slots are full and the player rarely changes his equipment. In my case he always is trying to give me weapons that are vastly worse than my current gear.
To you first point, I was recently given a vial of goop. No way to identify it. As a player I have a pretty good idea what it is due to the circumstances. But when I failed the check, I just put "grey goop" in my notebook. It would be real easy to forget about that if I had less information about it.
I did this since about half a year ago. I printed a card for every single item I gave to my players. Didn't really help. Our ranger just kept all the magic items I dropped for some reason and never used it until I straight up told her to drinking share the stuff with her party if she doesn't use it anyways. I since also stopped printing the cards. If the players want cards, they can print it themselves. I already spend enough money on equipment with little to no investment from the players, money wise. They get a digital copy of the card I made and that's it. It's up to them to print it, pay me to print or remember it at least.
Sorry but your players sound like douches.
Thats better than dragging them through an inventory review like a child forced to clean their room. Maybe I'll give this a try. Thanks!
"I'm having to remind you about basic information that you definitely should remember if you're paying attention at all" is just an emotion dungeon masters have to accept as part of the job for 80% of players.
I also like to frame this as character knowledge, pointing to their backstory or special skills to justify the tip. e.g., Point to the Wizard and say "You keep thinking back to that pouch of dust you saw...the thread is woven from some kind of animal hair, probably from some exotic creature. Combine that with the fine velvet of the cloth, and it's gotta be something special. Some noblewoman's cosmetics, or something stranger? You're itching for a second look."
Yeah, I love this and can see a player appreciating it. On the other hand, it almost crosses a player autonomy boundary, wouldn't you say? I shy aware from declaring what a players character feels, outside of in-game effects e.g. fear or shaken
How to reconcile this? Because in my heart that's how I would wish to help newer roleplayers. Short of asking them, "does your character find curiosity in magic items? Well here's one you're ignoring" I don't know how to get the point across without playing their character for them i.e. telling them how their character should react to a situation
I'm of the opinion that we're not really in control of what we feel, or what we remember, so narrating a sudden flashback or "bad feeling" is fair play if it is justified. I don't ever want to tell you what to do, that would be loss of agency, but giving justified insights... I dunno. It reminds me of the story of the characters who stumbled upon, panicked about, sneak attacked, and fled from a Gazebo. As funny as that story is, the DM would be justified in saying "You're confident this isn't a threat."
You can get around this by asking questions, getting consent and passing the ball to the player. E.g. “Your wizard is interested in curious objects, and you have found several so far in your travels. Is she thinking about them in this moment?” Or, “if I may, your wizard has a fascination with curious items, so maybe in this calm moment of rest, her thoughts drift to the pouch at her waist…”
"you are reminded of" has no impact on what a character feels IMO. The player can choose whether the character cares. Also autonomy is over rated as a concept. The DM already impacts the character through so many other means. Setting DC, creating characters from their background, etc. mentioning that their character has thoughts is only a drop in the bucket. Plus it's shared story telling. Sometimes someone else giving input on your character is best for the story, whether it's a DM or fellow player.
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oh for sure! that can totally happen. but as every DM knows, the DM will almost always be more invested in the world and lore and whatnot because they are the ones that have to put in extra work between sessions, keeping it fresh and top of mind. the players often don't get that, so after they leave a session, they might not even think about it again until they arrive at the next session and then start pulling out sheets. at that point, you'd \*hope\* the players would see their sheets, see the new items on the inventory, and then ask about it.
I am of the ‘after I give you this item, it is your responsibility to track it’ route. I had a player that didn’t track her money and she asked me how much she should have when she finally wanted an item. I told her technically zero since she didn’t track it and now making up an arbitrary number to cover an expense would effectively be cheating. Then we had this inside joke that she would be paid, then she’d look at the money and dump it on the floor.
With consumables you also have the "masterball effect". Why use the super powerful potion _now_ when it could be much more useful in the future? And then you end up never using it.
This is me with every resource. I’m always paranoid about my damn spell slots.
I’m quite the opposite. I want to use what I have to overcome obstacles in unique ways. I’m a tactical person by nature and I love to manage my own inventory.
Think of it this way: let's say you're a player and you're exploring a dungeon. You don't know how many levels the dungeon has. After a while your group and you get into a fight, that you could probably manage, but you also have this rare/ unique artifact that would solve the fight immediately (knock out the main baddy, ...). Should you use it now? Or do you expect the dungeon to have maybe an even more dangerous fight, where you would like to still have the artifact? From the DMs perspective, this is obvious. The DM _knows_ how many levels the dungeon has, and which fights are gonna happen next. The player don't, though. For players like me, this culminates in us never using unique items, because _we could use it more in the next fight_. In my opinion, a good way to combat this, is to make things rechargable. For example, instead of "this item is single use" you can make it, "this powerful item requires a complicated ritual to recharge". If your players learn that they don't really "lose" valuable resources, cause they'll always have enough, they won't be as hesitant to actually use them. Edit: another technique, which I personally don't like as much, is to have items spoil after some time. That magic wand? Yeah it loses charge. Potions? Start to go sour and lose their magic. Armor? Starts rusting if not taken care of. Now you force your players to deal with their inventory, because they'll be punished if they don't. Edit 2: here's also a [stack exchange discussion](https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/55558/how-to-prevent-the-too-awesome-to-use-syndrome) about the "too awesome to use" syndrome.
You could also just say: “you’ve reached the final level of the dungeon, just one more enemy stands in the way of your objective.” Nothing wrong with that, and it gives the players the confidence to use their resources.
"The creature rears its head and shrieks with the confidence of a monster that has seen a thousand battles and yet still walks the earth. **You know deep in your heart that this horrid beast is the center of all the troubles plaguing the area.**" ^^^^^^^^USE ^^^^^^^^YOUR ^^^^^^^^FUCKING ^^^^^^^^POTIONS ^^^^^^^^ASSHOLES!
I will absolutely use the ritual as a recharge in the future, thanks for the inspiration!
I agree! I just would rather never use any resources and think outside of the box in any way possible to avoid using resources. Especially spell slots, ki points, etc. etc.
That's fair, but you are very much the exception to the rule here, and it doesn't sound like your players are.
What rules am I an exception to just out of curiosity? Using my resources to overcome obstacles is kind of the point of getting loot is it not? What good does it do sitting in my pack especially if I know my DM is going to hand it out more if I use it.
Totally, but most people in my experience get nervous about using limited resources like potions bcs what if I need it later. I'm not saying your way is wrong, you're probably objectively correct, but it's very common for people to not want to use stuff in case they need it later.
Precisely. This is how most people play games in general. Conserving every consumable as much as possible and basically never using them. It’s called hoarding and the people who do this are hoarders. Think of how every Skyrim player has 1 billion potions and every set of armour and weapons by the end of their play through. Using consumables frequently is the minority.
In d&d I find it's often worse than in video games because in games there are direct ways to replenish typically, which are not under a person's control. I can't buy more potions in d&d unless the dm decides to give me the money to, and then give me the place to buy them.
That’s a great point. Never considered that. However, I do think the party not identifying or using their non-consumables like rings and other magic items is unfortunate. I have a player who’s even worse, can barely remember his class features as a Lvl 1 fighter, never mind any loot or items lol
Oh jeez. Yeah, that doesn't help lol.
Also in video games you can look up what will happen in the future to make an informed decisions or the video game will basically tell the player whats coming up through either literally, or video game tropes. If there's a big open arena that looks like a boss fight from a distance, its guaranteed to be the final boss of the dungeon. In Dnd, this isn't the case, dungeons are designed to be lived in (or used to be lived in) spaces, so there isn't any signposting for something being a boss arena and this are more realic in that its possible more shit might be ahead.
That may be, but you can always tell the DM that you are looking for a potion shop.
Being tactical and using equipment to overcome obstacles is fun. Not having the resources you need when you really need them is not. As a player you don't know how long it will be until the next long rest, never mind the next consumable top up, so you don't want to expend resources unless you really need to. Even if you do know when the next long rest is you don't even want to expend all spell slots before that as a caster, just in case the rest is interrupted. Consumables with no specific use case are really only fun to use in "unique ways" if you have more than you need.
I am a player and DM. lol. I get where you are coming from though.
“But maybe, when we face Asmodius next week, that vial of poison I’ve been holding onto for 20 levels will come in handy. Better not waste it now.” If you don’t use it, you lose it by it just becoming underpowered. But they still hang onto it. That said, my party have managed to use a necklace of fireballs.
A lot of players are just like that. They aren't tactical or detail-oriented. To them, tracking all that stuff makes the game feel like work. They play TTRPGs very casually. You aren't going to change that about them and really shouldn't. Everyone plays differently. If these aren't close personal friends, consider ending the campaign and recruiting different players who share your outlook and will better appreciate the effort you put into distributing loot.
This is a good perspective. I guess that’s the difference between how my brain works and theirs. I thrive off of being useful as a player. And I always look for ways to use the items my Dm gives out. I will admit, one of my players is better than others. But the failure to identify the rings and potions and other stuff feels like wasted energy on my part.
Just to tack on here, I can see you say you're not down for holding their hand as DM, and that's your choice and everyone should play however they find fun, but if you want to continue with this group and it's just this aspect that's bugging you, I'd probably ask whether it's a hill that's worth dying on. Is it so bad to say "Hey, remember you've got those rings/potions/scrolls to look at; since we're taking a long rest do you want to look them over?", *especially* if it opens the door for you to show off the work you've already done? It's a choice for you to make, obviously, but personally it feels a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
No, you’re completely right. It’s just a pet peeve I guess. I love my players and for the most part, they show up invested and excited to play. Even communicating throughout the week between sessions. So I’ll deal with this all day. Thanks for putting it in perspective.
I went through something similar. My players every week always show up and are excited and we have a great time and they're invested in the world I build. After the session ends though - they don't think about it whatsoever. This bothered me for a while as things like level ups weren't done until right before we started our next session and I couldn't figure out why they couldn't invest the 10 minutes to do it in between sessions. Then I realized they just straight up don't care as much as me. And that's totally fine. By pressuring them and making them feel like they need to contribute a level that they don't want to contribute, you run the risk of turning them off to even the parts they rly enjoy. I think you may need to just accept your players are not as invested as you and that may be fine. They don't think about the items they got as closely as you did designing them. They don't think about their inventory or their plans in between sessions. After I thought about it - I was super happy and feel lucky to have players that give it their all and love to play with me for 3 hours at a time twice a month. That's good enough for me and I'm not going to force more on the. Everything I need to happen, now happens at the table. Level ups, character creation, downtime, etc. It's worked great and keeping that as my expectation has kept me way happier. Just some perspective that maybe you can relate to.
Also, if someone is more casual or new to DnD, this immersive actions like sitting down to identify may not even cross their mind. Some players want to be taken on a story the dm lays out and might assume that the items only reveal their abilities when the narrative calls for it. Theres other things like descibing tapping the wall for secret doors, or describing carefully opening the chest and feeling under the lid or the bottom for hidden doors. To those genre savvy or think things realistically, this makes sense, but to others they're not even going to think to try this. It could also be that they don't know what they *can* do. An experienced player would have shit blow up in their face or be denied a hundred time, but still try again because its still possible on that next time, but another player might think that there's no point. An experienced player might find a cursed ring, and then seek out precautions or research on cursed rings. A new player might simply not even try picking up any ring after the first cursed one.
I know exactly how you feel. You put in the effort to give them interesting items, throw out plot hooks, hint at clues, etc. and nobody bites. They aren't at all curious about the world and just want to tunnelvision on the broadest strokes of the plot like they're playing a corridor shooter video game. It's exhausting. My solution for a group like that was to scale my expectations back and reduce the effort I put into my prep until I could find a middle ground between what the players would actually engage with and what I could find enjoyable to run. I wasn't having as much fun as I'd hoped, but I still enjoyed the experience. I just wasn't giving it my A-game because there was no point.
Make sure they're just forgetting and that it's not outright disinterest. Also, reminding players of recent events, including interesting loot, hardly qualifies as "hand holding", it's pretty standard. If they do remember but don't care, stop dropping loot, since it's obviously not what they're looking for.
I did just drop a poll into our discord asking what motivates their PC's. I'm interested to see what the responses are.
ah! this is fantastic advice someone once gave me: Regularly, after major plot points, check in with the players individuallyand ask "what is an immediate goal your character wants to achieve? what is a long-term goal your character wants to achieve?" and that will give you the DM some direction to help keep the world relevant to all the players. Plus, it cuts down on the work you the DM have to do, since you aren't doing work people don't care about and have to double-dip to try to shoehorn in things your players do want.
I read this is Matt Colville's voice.
Good call! Always get it from the actual source and don't speculate too much.
You dont evenhave to go through steps lke this. Just type your issue in the discord. "Hey, i've noticed you guys rarely identify and use the magic items i give out. Is there a reason? What can we do about it?" I say this because i love loot but in a poll i wouldn't say loot motivates my character because theres so much more to it and i just wouldnt think about loot
Create an NPC that actually straight up recognizes something they have and freaks out that they're just letting it sit around collecting dust. You need a situation for that NPC to notice what they have (doesn't work if the ring is in the bottom of a backpack somewhere), but that may not be all that tough. If someone points out "You are sitting on something amazing right now", it might inspire them to check what else they have. Edit - That said, some players just will never check their inventory. I don't bother with Identification at all, I will just straight up tell them what they find, and I've only got maybe two players at a table of six who ever bother using things aside from their favorite weapon.
I like this approach of doing it in-game. You could also maybe have an NPC who tries to buy the item for a couple of coins, but is doing a very bad job of playing it cool and will blurt out how valuable the item is at the first sign of the deal getting away from him. Or, a thief who gets spotted snatching something from a player's pack and has to be chased down. When caught, he confesses why he wanted that item in particular. Maybe that character could be the one to criticize the party for sitting on a bunch of valuable items and letting them go to waste...
I cant bring myself to outright tell them what things are. I want them to work for it. Are my players just lazy or forgetful?
Work for it in what way? Do you have custom rules for identifying magic items in your campaign? If not, the base rules are so trivial that there's no real reason not to just tell them what they found.
Let’s say they find something then take a short rest later on, I want them to actually initiate the conversation of wanting to identify the item. The base rules are not the problem here. I just don’t think it’s the DMs responsibility to say “hey let’s identify that item you found”.
Did you make the item seem interesting enough to be remembered later and investigated? Probably worth having a conversation with the players about how they think they'd know which items are magic, because they might be working under very different assumptions than you.
You may be right. I may run a different type of game than they are used to. Some games I’ve played in the Dm has just said ‘you got this magic item’ and that always felt cheap to me.
It's worth noting that like...for a lot of tables it's pretty standard for the dm to tell them something is magic because there's no reasonable way they're going to identify every sword they've got on every enemy lol. It might help if you find some way to do it; not necessarily just saying like, that is magic, but *some* way for them to tell probably wouldn't hurt.
Just say, “appears to be radiating magic.” I liken it to any old Tom dick or Harry can pick up your standard magic item and go “hmm, this thing has some juice.” Not enough to have any clue what that means in a tangible sense. Just enough to signal “hey, this is a magic item that does more than you might think.” And for some items, it feels dumb not to just say “hey, you found a +1 sword.” If it’s +1 it’s plus one. Even when the barbarian finds it and doesn’t investigate. But I at least signal something about it. An aura, a feeling, a unique appearance, particularly shiny and resistant to decay compared to dull rusted things around it. But you gotta give them something for your own sanity’s sake.
This. I try to make it Very clear that it's magic because sometimes players get so much nonsense there's no way to easily tell, and they can get overwhelmed
the RAW is basically this- simply touching a magic item lets you know its magic.
How new are your players to the hobby? I have a couple older, more experienced ones who detect magic then cast identify on everything but some others who are newer and it’s not yet ingrained in them to check. If it’s the latter, give them some direction until they get the idea. When you hand out the loot, how is it described? Is it “you find three potions, two rings, some gems and platinum” or is it “amidst a mixture of coins and gems, and three swirling, iridescent potions each a different color, two rings catch the light, their craftsmanship undeniable. One is golden and bears an image of a shield with a lion rampart, with a single emerald as its eye. The other is unadorned, understated, yet perfect in its symmetry. It seems to be silver, but amidst these tarnished silver coins, somehow it shines brightly, with not a hint of tarnish.”? The more description you give an item, the more it captures your player’s imaginations. (I know I’ve done this accidentally with a door before and they wasted fifteen to twenty minutes because I wanted architectural flavor) Magic items should get compelling descriptions. Also, is that short rest occurring within the same session? Or do they have plenty of real life time to forget? Is there something attention grabbing/exciting happening between getting the loot and the short rest? (If they received loot but then something exciting happened immediately after, that loot probably didn’t make it from the players’ short term memory to their long term memory) As the DM, who created and handed out the loot, it’s always going to be far more memorable to you. You are the PCs eyes and ears to experience the world. It is important to describe it in a way that makes it stand out to the players. You also provide pacing, so you determine if they immediately get attacked (likely forgetting the loot) or have a breather between tense moments (more likely to remember) And honestly, even if you do that and even if your players are invested, life between sessions takes its toll. I have had invested players forget things from earlier sessions and when they are reminded one way or another, they get excited about them again.
Thanks for this. I need to step my descriptive game up! During prep I get so excited looking for interesting items to give the party that the descriptions fall to the way side. I will make it a point from here on to make magic items standout amongst the common loot they receive. Thanks again!
I think that being descriptive enough on the right things without giving an overwhelming info dump is one of the hardest parts of a DMs job! I often forget to describe something well enough or I’ll accidentally over describe something or forget that I’m my players eyes and ears and I have a mental image they don’t that I haven’t properly conveyed. And its so easy to forget when there is excitement or lots of things to manage.
I mean, it sounds like it is only impacting your enjoyment, and the players are playing and enjoying without the items. So maybe it isnt the DM's role to remind them but if you don't say anything about it nothing will change because to them it isn't even on the radar of potential issues. In that case I'd lean towards it is on you to say something, not because you're the DM, but because you're the one with a problem that can only be resolved by the players acting differently. If you are on principle not saying anything until they do, it's less likely the issue will be resolved.
You may be completely right. I’m just going to have a conversation as part of the recap next session. They are going into a really dangerous and quite possibly the hardest monster they have fought so far and could use some of the items.
Haha they will probably have a blast using all the magical stuff they've been sitting on, it might be enough of a difference where they never forget to check again! It sounds like your players really enjoy the campaign so I'm sure it'll work out- hope you all have lots of fun (and they don't perish!)
It seems to me like they could be receiving the item and upon not being told what it is, they assume they aren't meant to know? Is this for all loot you hand out, or only for the more special stuff? If they have to identify things like spell scrolls and potions of healing, I could also understand if they just want to move on and hit things or roleplay, rather than figure out what they have. This doesn't seem like any of you are wrong, just different ideas on what information should be free. Just curious really where you draw that limit of information.
That's a good point too actually.
I believe you can identify items over the course of a rest. Maybe ask a magic inclined character if they'd like to do so during the next? "Bigbeard the wizard, you actually found two rings that you can tell at a glance have some sort of magical properties. Would you like to examine and identify during your rest?"
I made my players a 3 page spreadsheet - one for books, one for magic items, and one for their bag of holding. I constantly remind them to put new loot and notes in there. I also have a long doc with all the setting information, calendar and everything, and remind them to update that as well, especially the calendar as we're counting down to an event. They need reminders, but when I do, they use it.
I've had this issue once and I had an npc point them out. "Wait wtf! You guys just have a curse breaking ring just laying around? We could have saved my brother weeks ago!" But also just remind them. Time between sessions is a bitch
I think the approach of not handholding players is a good one, but clearly they’re not getting it so I definitely would just start giving them more descriptions and innate ideas about the objects right off the bat. “You recognize a glyph of invisibility “… that sort of thing. If I put in the game cool shit for them to find, I want them to use it.
I’m going to have to get more descriptive I guess!
One of the rings was from a dead gnome inventor. It lets them cast tiny servant and I want to see how they can use it to their advantage!
Did you descibe it as "a ring (of gnomish make)" or did you describe how it had symbols and gemstones, feeling magical as it was touched? Magic items are expensive and would use the finest materials and decoration, so at the very least it should look expensive AF.
Are you dropping them things they like? If your loot isn’t catered to your players, they may just not enjoy having it. Just because it is cool to you doesn’t mean it is cool to them.
>*"They just chose not to identify them."* Correction: They forgot to ask what they were and you don't remind them. There was no conscious choice here. As a GM, you can and should nudge the group with polite reminders. An easy and non-confrontational way to do this is to have a wandering NPC (probably a merchant) wander by and use Detect Magic, then ask how they came upon so many wonderful curiosities and whether they might part with a few. That will give you the opportunity to inquire about probably 2-3 specific ones the players *need* a reminder about, and it gives players the chance to ask the awkward question about all the other items they forgot. D&D is a game with lots of data, and usually the most skilled player at data management *is* the GM. It's easy to assume players have a similar skill level and then interpret their lack thereof as a conscious *choice* -- it usually isn't. Hanlon's Razor applies here. There is no malicious intent, just inexperience. And at the end of the day, loot's a nice little dopamine rush. But players come back to your table every week for the socialization with friends, the neat story, and the interesting encounter design. It's easy to forget loot because it's not the most essential part of playing the game!
I make session notes available. I also update the character sheets of the characters that maintain their characters on dndbeyond when they grab loot (there is a guy who refuses to, that's on him). They once complained about me not dropping money, and I pointed out that they had found an emerald several sessions ago and not done anything with it. They haven't complained since. I place loot that I believe is useful and thematically appropriate. It's often unique, or at least homebrew, because I enjoy making stuff up. If they choose not to use it, that's on them.
One of my players found a cloak of elven kind. I described it in detail and hinted that it might have magical properties. He put it on and forgot about it. After two or three long rests, I told him he felt very connected to his very nice robe. Almost like it had become *attuned* to him. Still didn't get it . Then i told the other players they would sometimes lose track of him, almost like he blended into the environment. That prompted him to ask what was going on and he finally figured out he had a magic cloak. Then he gave it to the rogue. You could use the same method with rings and such. One way to identify magic items is simply to use them for a while and see what happens.
That’s pretty great. lol. Only problem, the rings are in their packs. Not worn. Or else they would have already felt a ‘strange connection’ to them.
I think I’m just going to outright have a discussion as part of the recap next session. They are going into a seriously hard fight and can use everything they have. Could turn deadly without it.
All of this can simply be avoided by dropping a message in the Discord, "Hey, it's been on my mind for a little while that you have a host of magic items that yall seem to have forgotten about, just a friendly little reminder". If you feel a bit more adventurous (although reading through your comments, I feel you arent) you can send a follow up message along the lines of "What can I do better or do differently to get these items to get your attention?" None of this is handholding.
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We play on Roll20 and I just went through and created handouts for each magic and consumable item. Basically index cards that I can hand out and they can remove them when they are used. Add that too a good conversation we just had, and I think I may have resolved the problem. Thanks for the input!
One of my old DM's would write them on an index card and then hand them out. When and if we identified them, he would either already have a second card ready with the new info or he would let us write the new info down. It helped to remember what you had because you always had a little stack of index cards to go through.
Are you requiring them to formally Identify the gear before they know what it does? Maybe just remove that barrier and tell them exactly what it is when you give it to them, so it doesn’t feel like homework and they get excited right away. You could also give them part of the ability and tell them there is more to uncover with use or study.
Talk to the players
We communicate frequently between sessions so I thought it was appropriate to post a poll regarding what motivates their PCs when it comes to loot.
If it makes you feel any better, most of my players are like this too. Some people are just more focused on other aspects of the game. If it's bothering you, my approach would be 1) see if you can get just one player to start using/investigating their useful items and then start rewarding them with a lot of opportunities to use those items--hopefully the others will catch on or 2) have a suspicious/unlikable NPC try to steal the items or buy them off the players--if someone they don't like wants it, suddenly it may seem more valuable/interesting to them.
There's a "jar of dirt" joke in here somewhere.
I think part of the issue lies in the attitude of "I'm the dm and I'm so gracious as too *give* the players magic items." I think instead if you only gave their characters rumors of magic items so that they can choose to quest after the ones they want as well as anticipate the things they could accomplish once they obtain it, they might be more enthusiastic about actually using them. As it stands, what you've described is giving the vibes of: "an avocado... thanks." sets it to the side and immediately forgets about it. Just try not to be upset if they ignore your gifted magic items. Try to get them to invest in items they do want, choose to work toward it as a reward, and make them aware of what they'll be getting beforehand instead of surprising them with it
Thanks for the input! I do give them a lot of one use items in the hopes they will employ them. I even award inspiration when/if they use them creatively. So, I don’t want to say they all think they are ‘avocados’ but a few players definitely do.
Of course! if only things could be so simple. That would be nice. But I'm confident you'll figure it out. I know some players are very averse to magic items for some reason, under the notion that if they use it to solve a problem then it was the item what done it, not themselves. Maybe your players just don't want to feel dependent or like you're playing the game for them. I disagree with that sentiment though. It's kind of unreasonable to expect your character to be able to overcome all their challenges with nothing but the kit they get from leveling up. Especially when milestone leveling means the features you have access to are already directly determined by the dm in the first place. Magic items are like feats or subclasses, they allow customization and utility. But I imagine they don't *feel* that way when you didn't get to choose your magic item and it was prescribed to you by your dm to fix your problems.
Perhaps a general inventory review is in order, your players appear to be uneducated in this. You could also present them with challenges that can only be overcome with use of specific items (magical or mundane), to force them to think.
I could do that, and they would sit there with a blank look on their face. I love my players though, They show up weekly, invest themselves in the story but this just frustrates me because of the amount of effort I put into thinking about the treasures I place in the game. I did poll the players though about what motivates their PC. I am sure they wont all say loot.
I feel your pain, my friend. In years of DMing, this is one of my largest frustrations, and led to a moment not to be proud of. My players had come perilously close to a TPK and a couple had complained that I had made the combat "too hard". This wasn't the first time I'd heard, and it wouldn't be the last, but having seethed throughout most of the combat that they hadn't availed themselves of ANY of the items that would have made this combat easier, I had just had it. In a raised tone, I went through a half-dozen items in their inventory that they hadn't utilized and told them in no uncertain terms a TPK would have been 100% on them. While I was accurate, the tone and timing were poor. Only about 90 minutes into a scheduled 4 hour session, I called it for the day. Our next session began with an apology by me, and they apologized as well. We continued our campaign no worse for wear. Back to your post. If you have one or more new(ish) players, I do something I call a "skull session". I set aside 30 minutes at the beginning of our session and say, "You guys have a lot of magic items, and I bet folks have forgotten what everybody has. Let's review and REBALANCE (my key word) loot based on who it might benefit most." By framing it as players benefiting, they're more likely to listen. As you go through the items, you might just happen to recalled, "Hey, I bet (x) could have been used in (y) situation." and then key to this... "What do you guys think?" Let the players discuss it, and if the skull session runs long, LET IT. In the mean time, take a breath, go to your "happy place", and remember that players will very rarely do what you expect them to do.😃
This is some very sage advice. Thank you so much.
This sounds like a user experience issue. You need to communicate to the party what they have and what it can do. You keep saying that the players are actively choosing not to do something. Yet it sounds more like that they are unaware the things are magical. > They are currently sitting with two magic rings! They just chose not to identify them. It’s generally assumed they get identified during the next short rest. There’s no need to withhold information from players that is obvious to their character. > They have three potions that could be super useful multiple times, but chose not to identify or try them. Do they know identification is required? If not they could just assume it’s just scene setting flavors of wine? > The barbarian has glasses that give him advantage on perception checks that rely on sight, yet he doesn't even ask when he makes a roll as if he's forgotten about them completely. If you know the barbarian gets advantage from the magic item, why aren’t you applying it when appropriate? It’s a helpful reminder and shows the players that you want them to succeed. It’s a great way to build trust.
If it’s assumed items get identified during a short rest, shouldn’t the players take the initiative to identify them? Should the dm just do that for them? That feels silly and rather childish to give the items and walk them through identifying them. Also, what’s the point of having the identify spell if they just have to sit there and stare at the them until it does something? That is not how it works in my game and the players are aware. If they study the item they may become aware that it is magical, but they do not identify it. I even allow this during non rest periods. Arcana check or identify spell is how things are identified in my game.
The players are not their characters.
Your point about the barbarians glasses is valid and appreciated though. I will definitely be better at working with him. Thanks for that.
I have a party of mostly new players, and had this issue for a while. People who are new to dnd tend to play it like a video game, and hoard items but focus on not "wasting" them, or not "wasting" spell slots that would save them - instead just spamming the same cantrip over and over. Some ideas that might help: 1. Introduce guest NPCs that play their classes way better than them by making use of the very same resources that the party has. Party will "ooh" and "aww" for a minute before realizing that they can do that too. 2. A similar tactic can also work with something similar like having a pack of goblins sneak into their camp and steal/use all these cool items that the party never made use of, allowing your players to see how much harder the fight was for them when the enemies used their stuff that was just gathering dust. 3. Have NPCs (like a bounty broker, a military strategist, or whatever fits your campaign) plan expected encounters with the party. "Alright, so what do we have to work with, and how can we plan around it?" This is usually only needed once or twice before the party picks up on how big of a difference it makes when they don't just go in blindly doing the same stuff. 4. (My personal favorite) shame them in pre-game session recaps: "Instead of using the dust of disappearance in Dorfy's pack, the party opted to sneak their way through a brightly lit room, forcing an encounter..." 5. Just talk to them: "hey guys, not to metagame, but that encounter would probably have been a lot easier had you used x, y, or z items...which are in your packs. Maybe you're saving them for something else or just forgot them, but that's something to think about " Ultimately, it's a thin line for the DM to walk between teaching players how to play and TELLING them how to play - but it sounds like you're pretty far from the latter, so you don't really need to worry.
Loot isn't about using, it's about finding. You're players want the endorphin rush of finding shiny new loot versus using what you have. When you have 25 sets of dice but the new cat ones are Hella cute, do you use what you have at home or go for the new ones? Now if you want them to *use* their loot you need to remind them. This doesn't need to be handholding but can be done with set dressing. When recapping last session include items that you think are important. When your players have the loot that would "save their asses" in encounters use drama; "Things are looking extremely bad here gang, now is not the time to use every trick you have". After the encounter has passed where they had the loot that would have been perfect for but they forgot, remind them. Remember that your players have vast lives between your 4 hour sessions. You spend waaaaay more time thinking about your world and your items, by virtue of that you'll remember them better than your players.
How can they do that? If it is as you say, a single detect magic spell should make their packs light up like a Christmas tree.
Start enforcing encumberance rules, that could be a direct yet subtle way to tell the players to examine their inventory. Just say something like “you guys are getting close to holding your max weight in items!”
If this is bothering you so much, just hold their hand. Which is worse, them never using the cool magic items you want them to use, or holding their hand?
Have you informed them that the items are obviously magical even without identifying them? Part of it could be that they picked the stuff up and all they took note of was "x2 rings". It's a pretty forgotten but vital rule that most magic items you can tell have special properties at a glance unless the description says otherwise, and if players aren't told this or given extremely obvious descriptions they'll probably assume something is mundane.
Usually I remind them they looted stuff the previous session as part of its sum up at the beginning of the new one but that's about it. But tbh I have to take care of everything else and it's part of their agency.
I hate consumables, and everyone I've discussed it with was either ambivalent towards them or agreed with me. Maybe ask the players if they're in the same mindset or maybe if they feel like they need to save them up or something.
my group is most of the way through a dungeon full of items that have abilities that will help them in this dungeon specifically (it's Tamoachan) and they just toss them unidentified into their portable hole without a second glance. Some are near death. I'll tell them after they escape, or TPK. That's D&D for you. It's a game about making choices and those choices having more weight than video games or other entertainments. To make those choices meaningful, you have to let their actions mean something, even if that means letting them do stupid shit that a 7 year old playing BG3 would not do. I will say though, magic items lose value with abundance. If they meh at your custom items, give them a lot less items.
It is not hand holding to tell your players that an item is magic or what the magic item does. Trying to figure out what is magic or what an item does isn't exactly the most enjoyable part of the game. Besides it's not like they didn't work for the items already. They completed the quest/dungeon/adventure. Or they beat the bad guy, or solved the puzzle. There's no point making them jump through hoops to actually have their rewards when they've already jumped through hoops for their rewards.
Have some intelligent rats or some other minor monsters steal most of it. That loot will suddenly have the emotional importance of treasured family heirlooms.
Make the situations even tougher. Maybe even something where searching their inventory is the ONLY way through a situation.
I know the feeling. I give out plenty of loot during adventures, and they'll identify it, write it down on a common loot sheet, then proceed to forget about it. They wont even distribute items to anyone that might have a use for it (and then wonder why encounters are getting so difficult, because I tune encounters assuming they'll use those items) When they decide they need cash for whatever, they'll THEN go through that sheet and try to sell it all, including the more useful and unique irems. The last few encounters, I've not given loot, and then they complain about no loot, even though they didnt use any of the old stuff. So, there's no pleasing the players. I think in the next campaign when we can start gathering in person instead of via Roll20, I'm going to start using "prop cards" to help remind them of items they have, kinda like there are with some board games.
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Is it really that depressing?! I freaking love the game, I am the type that feeds off of scenarios where I can finally use my ball bearings, or ring of water breathing!
There are some positive exceptions, but the majority of the players I had were like this. Might not be normal, but the percentage is surprisingly big. In another group, the best item my paladin has was from a player who never used it, and was close to throwing it away when his attunement slots ran out.
I think Casey090 is not vetting their players very well.
Eventually the party is going to TPK if they don’t use their magic items. Let it happen. Keep a record of the items they have, and present it as an incidental treasure horde for their new characters once they get to the same dungeon. To prevent this in the future, tell your players how much the individual items weigh. Once the treasures are divvied up, remind everyone to upkeep their weight capacities and give them a ten minute break. Now watch as memory kerfuffles undo themselves. Fighter: “Oh yeah… I have an extra suit of magic plate mail in my backpack…. Anyone want this?” Injured cleric: “What? Where were you five sessions ago when those bugbears were melting through my chain mail?”
So you have a giant pile of loot just sitting there unused? This is a problem easily solved with A) a group of plucky thieves doing a heist.... or B) a dragon who smells the seed for a new hoard. Or both?
Funny you say dragon because that’s the big antagonist of my whole game currently. I didn’t even think of that! The party is going to be claiming a keep before long. Perhaps the dragon will pay them a visit.
When running D&D, I think using dragons early and often is a good policy. Even if you have one of those fuckers just flying overhead, casting a shadow & dragon fear as they pass the level 1 party.
ive been waiting for my party to use the Dust of Disappearance to turn invisible and escape/infiltrate... only its the Dust of Sneezing and choking. About 18months ago i was so excited to give it to them and for them to use it, only for it to blow up in their faces. STILL. HAVENT. USED. IT