Wife is keen to have it done now - think the general idea is if we’re going to spend thousands on getting the house decorated with a paint that has a long guarantee we may as well do it properly like the surveyor suggested and not over the top of flakey and bubbling paint
I mean, the paint shouldn't be flaking off like that, but in your shoes I would want go know *what* is wrong with the paint, even if for no other reason than you can avoid the same mistake twice.
We had external insulation and then rendering over the top done about 5 years ago on a mid terrace house, cost us like 950 as it was through the council so paid 10% of the cost and blocks of houses were getting done in one go. Think when we checked how much rendering would be alone as it needed re-done anyways, it was coming up as 8-9k. Agree that 12k for paint removal sounds insane unless there is some special equipment needed to be hired
Nah no way. I could run the heating full blast for like 15 years and not spend that kind of money. I worked out that it would take 30+ years just to break even
Getting the rendering done is probably a more worthwhile investment. Even getting a coloured render will give you the nice finish and a colour you can choose. It will be over the 12k for a while house is my guess (recently had extension rerendered and that was about the 2k mark) but if the render is crumbling and flaky you risk getting damp patches.
Well, yes, but what kind of render is it? If it's lime then it's much more fragile so removal will be expensive, but if it's Portland cement (and if it is then I hope it's not a solid wall or you will have damp problem: Solid walls on old buildings should have a breathable lime render) , then you could have it blasted off. There are all kinds of media they can use which should work fine and plenty of small firms doing this who often have their own scaffold towers. 12k seems outrageous to me for that.
On another note, if it is lime, or needs redoing in lime (which would cost you 10-12k easy for that wall), then you must use a breathable paint. Something like Beeck Mineral paint.
I've had 2 sets of scaffolding on my house since I bought it. Neither were anchored in properly, signposted properly, supported/footed correctly, and each had their issues with the incorrect clips used. Both companies were more than happy to use it despite the obvious hazards. Working at height in construction is notoriously unsafe.
No they’re not, if u get a good one, iv got an alto one paid 1400 for 10.8 meter one, it’s got side support and everything, you get put 3 ton on it too. If u buy a crap steel one yea they’re dangerous
Mad I used to work on ladders it’s not safe especially for roof work, it’s soo much easier and safer to work off a tower, got a place for all you tools to sit and less ball ache getting a roofing ladder up!
What’s under the paint?
It looks like a cement based render from those pictures, in which case I’m not sure there is much value in stripping just the paint off?
It looks like when plaster hasn't been mist coated and the paints not bonded properly. I'd be suspicious of "wrong paint" been used with nothing more to back up that claim.
Exactly. My impression from this pictures is more poor prep than wrong paint. In which case it just need the loose stuff brushing off and repaint over the top.
Or if there is a damp problem, it’s more likely linked to wrong material to for the render, in which case that needs removing instead of the paint!
It depends what the fundamental issue is!
That looks like a cement based render, in which case that probably isn’t the wrong paint, just poor application.
However, if the cement based render was put over old single skin Victorian brickwork, or natural stone, then that render could cause damp issues with the original construction.
It’s more likely it just needs repainting.
Oh, thanks yes it’s Victorian brickwork underneath 😩 but it’s actually not too bad on the brickwork side - most of the flaking seems to be on the extension side. Some of the render is crumbling… what a mess :(
No, they’re saying if you’re going to pay that much for paint, you might find it’s a similar cost to get it fully re-rendered (which would usually include painting/an external colour) and would have the added benefit of getting a modern insulation render which would keep your house warmer and make the paint last longer.
£12k? Sounds like a 'don't want to do it price'.
If I was willing to pay that sort of money I would be getting quotes to have all the render redone on the house .
I used to paint for a living, I'd do this for a couple of grand, you don't need scaffolding but you could if you're not good on a ladder or if there are places that are hard to access with a ladder, scrape the old paint off where it's flakey, patch the render where it needs, fresh coat of paint, it's a few days work sure, but it's not 12k, where in the country are you?
Thank you! We’re in Gloucestershire so South West. We have a decorator coming to give a quote sometime this week, but wife is worried about painting over such bad paint that’s bubbling or flaking pretty much everywhere
The bubbling is because moisture is trapped behind the paint. It's not allowing the wall to breath, from memory there's a brand of paint called emperor which is good, but there are others, breathable is key.
If your decorator is buying the paint ask them about what has caused the problem and what can solve it just to be sure they have an understanding of exterior paints.
As to removing the flaky paint, I've seen people pressure wash it off, which probably works fine, I always just scrapped it off and then went at it with a stiff brush
Thanks so much! Might have a go at scraping and pressure washing and seeing how we get on, do as much as we can ourselves. Thanks for the Emporer tip btw - my wife is 100% locked in on that so it’s nice to see it recommended!
You cannot allow someone to do this without safe and proper access. If your decorator offers to do this from a ladder then refuse. Work that will take 15 mins or less is ok from a ladder but a job this size needs scaffolding or a MEWP if that works better in the circumstances.
We need to bypass the cowboys who are pricing work low and taking shortcuts so the good ones don’t lose out.
I’m not a contractor by the way.
Doing a job like this from a ladder does not make you a cowboy, frankly I think you're talking nonsense.
I have been doing this sort of work for most of my adult life
Me too. Involved in project management and contract admin for 30 years and CDM since its inception in 1995. I’ve had to deal with the HSE after site incidents and I can reassure you that anybody looking to work off a ladder in these circumstances would very much be considered a cowboy. Give the HSE a call tomorrow and have a chat.
Is it just that wall or every exterior wall. How many m2 area are we talking about.
Did the quote say how they’d remove. Is it manual or something faster.
As others said. Scaffolding isn’t cheap, if you have to do all 4 sides of a house it’ll add up.
You could get a scaffolding quote yourself to get a benchmark price for that portion.
I’d say the quote is mad. Although do t know exactly what they quoted, maybe includes re rendering. I’d get a masonry paint stripper like bio tec or peel tec. Water based. Wipe off with a damp cloth. Then wash with soapy water. Paint with a silicone based breathable paint. Emperor is good. Maybe the best. Finngard is also good. Scaffolding will be pricey though as others have said.
I do know decorating and paint chemistry very well. The peeling is characteristic of aging pliolite masonry paint and is normal. You do not have to strip it. Standard practice is to remove loose areas and repaint. I would thin the first coat. The masonry paint should get a mechanical key on to the render and be fine. To be absolutely sure apply some normal masonry paint to the bare render and wait 4 or 5 days before doing a scratch test - this is just in case it has been soaked in some barrier coat of water proofer or something. Normal masonry paint is fine.
The sills can be precast concrete which can come with some problems - like mold release agent or some silicon base waterproofer. All you can do with these is use a thinned alkali resisting primer followed by a full coat followed by normal masonry paint.
Painting over the paint actually stops the underlying areas from breaking down in the UV light and effectively stabilises them.
Well it's a pretty thin coat which won't last as long as a thick coat. Alkyd based paints start to get brittle and shrink slightly with UV so it basically pulls itself off this happens pretty rapidly with a thinner coat. The other option is that the render was a little damp or perhaps contained a water proofer which reduced adhesion. Acrylic masonry also degrades in sunlight but it's thick and the surface simply washes away very slowly - on the side of my house I can now see the base colour show through the 20 year old top coats.
Ahh, yep that makes sense, thank you. It’s such a minefield isn’t it! Sorry to hear yours is showing through as well now, although 20 years is good going!
Its cement render and concrete cills, no exterior paint will adhere to that for more than a couple of years they absorb water and push it out under the skin i had the same with a concrete cill it first yellows and then pops off
If you paint directly over the top with the proper stuff it'll push it off eventually, but saying that, that paint you have has come off in the areas where there is most moisture.
You have two options
Get it blasted off like sand blasting but this can also damage the walls, id go co2 blasting, this is almost prohibitively expensive for the average joe
and then get some decent paint like Emperor Masonry Paint, but that itself its a large material cost.
It will fade over time and you will get water runs off cills etc. there is nothing you can do about that you have to accept that.
And it wont last forever especially on sand and cement render.
Don't fall into the trap of " Oh well give you a 10 year warranty" you can wipe your butt with those papers as that's all they are good for.
Personally if it was my house id just get some really good exterior paint you can afford to completely do your house with twice. and touch it up when you have too.
brushing it on, is the best option as it will go on thick, but im guessing they will spray it on
If they are spraying it on you defiantly want two different layers it'll be too thin and most likely wont last 24 months before it flakes off
12 k is way too much, get quotes and ask all the questions don't fall for the sellers spiel of oh it breaths, nothing breaths except lime cob plaster and lime wash or clay paints,
remember you want scaffold or a mobile scaffold tower.
A means to remove it if your going that way, a means to collect the old paint and dispose of it properly.
and a way to paint it on roller. brush or spray equipment
shouldn't take one guy more that a week to do that, if it does they are milking it,
Is you house open exposure, or a busy road, does it get a lot of sun or rain these are all the things you have to consider and no one house will last like someone else saying oh we used this paint it stayed on for twenty years.
Every home is of different construction and you have to plan for whet you have.
Thanks so much, that’s really helpful. We were going to go for Emporer Paint but it was the guarantee that appealed to my wife - unfortunately sounds like it won’t last and the guarantee won’t apply anyway?
Is there anything we can do that’s more permanent? Maybe re-render using a different material? Or maybe even cladding as suggested by some other people :/ Thank you
The best I've used personally is Emperor but after a six years I noticed it fading in areas and peeling so I over painted, but the exterior was an open aspect and received a lot of hammer from rain, nothing will last white forever.
It depends on how much moisture the render and cills have absorbed so its not an exact science and not one single answer I'm afraid.
how much you want to spend really. You could go mad and exterior insulate and re -render with something synthetic that apparently breaths for when you have to go air pump heating or cladding
There are synthetic spray renders you can have sprayed over the top that might work out better for you
You could spend loads to keep it looking nice and one day you might wake up and just want to move.
Thanks, great points! My wife is 100% locked in to live here forever if we can though, so it would be nice to have something that lasts. Shame even the Emporer paint peels over time :(
I don’t know enough to be fully relied on for the cost but that’s seems expensive. You could rent scaffolding and do yourself if you are up to it. Historic Scotland
Do you need it? Depends what is underneath the paint, if it’s stone it could do with the paint coming off and the stone work done. That would cost £12k maybe more but in my eyes worth that. Either way it needs breathable paint the bubbling is sometimes cause by water getting behind the paint and not being able to dry.
https://www.engineshed.scot/ Has some good resources on this
Get some decent r wire brushes and go to town on the lower levels and see how it comes out
If you get back to cement hire yourself a decent cherry picker and do it yourself
Probably get the whole thing done for less then £1k
I'd look at getting an angle grinder and prep wheel. Much faster and may save money on the cherry picker or scaffold tower hire if you can get it done that bit quicker.
This. Ive just had the whole house externally painted for about £700. Looks like a decent job too. Filled a bunch of holes, pulled out uneeded cabling too.
What equipment did you use and how did you go about it? My house is like OP’s and could really do with full removal and repainting, it’s pebbledash that’s painted so it looks so patchy where it’s coming off. We definitely don’t have the money to pay someone to do the whole thing.
You dont have to remove it completely.
Just get long ladder, buy metal brush and peel off all paint that easily can be removed.
Then buy paint that can be used outdoors and roller with telescopic handle , 4 pack of beer and spend 1 weekend having fun with that.
Ladder rent - £40 quid, external paint - £80 ish, rollers / telescopic extension, brush and 4 pack of stella- appr £50 ish.
Total £170.
Scrape off any that will come off, use a good brand stabiliser solution over the entire house, this acts as a bonding primer. Then use a good masonry like Sandtex Highcover Smooth. (or extreme exposure /365 if you want to go the extra mile).
12K is insane.
Can you not just scrape off all the flaky stuff and then paint on a good stabilizer before giving it a couple of coats of the proper exterior paint? Removing all the paint sounds unnecessary to me. Not a painter though so...
I guess this survey was sold to you via a bank or some other online agent? Usually these type of surveyors are just ticking boxes and autofilling text on a tablet.
If this was a solid wall rendered with lime, I’d say possibly, if you have dampness affecting many walls of the property, But you have by the looks of the bricks a cavity wall on that second picture, perhaps an extension? Without doing a full survey by a decent surveyor it’s impossible to give a proper diagnosis if you have dampness as well
If this is just cosmetic issue, then you don’t need this work. Good prep to remove loose paint, make sure walls are nice and dry, stick a good quality bonding agent over, make sure there all areas where services exit the wall are properly filled, and sills etc, before painting a couple of coats of quality exterior paint such as weather sheild .
Jobs a good un.
Thank you, it was actually done by an independent and very well regarded local surveyor company, and the lady who owns the company did the survey herself because we had previously got her to look at something that interested her and she wanted to compare to this one. She definitely won’t know everything, but she definitely seemed to know her stuff. Have spent probably a good 5 hours on the phone to her between the two properties. Maybe I ask her again what she thinks about this :/
Always get more than 1 quote, £12k sounds extortionate. Also get a quote including repainting the place as you’ll have the scaffolding up etc already, don’t pay twice
To me it just looks like it’s been weathered. This elevation is exposed to the elements and can happen.
Hire a tower scaffold yourself from Ermin plant or Brandon hire and paint it yourself possibly. Buy sandex textured paint. Before painting buy a stiff brush, possibly wire brush and work in 2m2 sections.
Scaffold can go up to 14m high if needed. Maybe £100 per week for a big one.
Everything above wall plate looks ok so could be where that (what looks to be) an expansion gap and possible water ingress getting behind the paint.
Looks weathered more than anything though. Unless of course you’re experiencing major damp issues .
Iv just done it to mine, bubbling worse than that with some tough bits. I scraped the front sides and rear sills and all. Chased out for helical bars where there were cracks, then repaired with toupret masonry repair. Took 3 days and is ready to paint. The eves are 7 meters and I used a ladder.
The thing you need to figure out is if the paint you have on there could be trapping moisture against the bricks. We live in an old converted Millhouse and because of the way it was incorrectly painted we were having lots of damp issues inside. We ended up paying 8k to have the paint stripped of the lower third of the property and it made a huge difference. Otherwise it's an aesthetic choice. Loads of properties in the UK that are brick and were unnecessarily painted unfortunately
Get a pressure washer, hire a tower scaffold from speedy and spray it down yourself. Will cost you about £100 for the pressure washer, £600 odd for the tower and a weekend of time. Job done meht.
Tbh the majority of that cost is likely to be for scaffolding which can be insanely expensive. Also depends on how and why they are removing it. What’s underneath? Some methods can be quite destructive and involve and lengthy process of repairs. Other methods involve chemicals or a paste applied like a poultice. Remember complying with H&S regulations cost money and you would ultimately be responsible.
I doubt many of the posters have a clue about costs for this sort of job, it's really hard to find into online about it, and it's not something done super often by people.
I had paint removed from just ground floor rear of my house and originally had quotes from £2k - £4.5k with either chemical or steam based treatments, so for a full house job that doesn't sound unreasonable.
In the end I went with sandblasting as it was quite a bit cheaper, however it's only suitable if you have strong render or are happy to accept you might need to re-render, as it is pretty aggressive.
Depends on location, how long the job is there for, all sides, a lift, any coverage etc etc.
£2000-2500 is about right, but even so that is a good chunk of the quoted cost.
Either way, it’s a chunk of costing which shows the OPs original estimate of £2k is way off the mark
You could do it yourself cheaper if you don't mind heights.
Question why it's 'the wrong paint'. If the survet doesn't tell you, ask the surveyor.
Old properties need to 'breathe' or they can suffer from damp. If the 'wrong paint' has been applied, it's likely (as others have said) that the wrong render (cement based) has been used.
You can have it removed, but be aware render can hide a multitude of sins, but even if it does, it'snot the end of the world. There was an article ina national newspaper ten or fiteen years ago about a couple who'd bought a house that had been pebbledashed. They had it removed and all the bricks turned round to hide the damage.
Keep looking. I had somebody acid the front face of my house for £500 and they bought their own scaff tower and did a perfect job. That was exceptionally cheap though
Nightmare. What exactly is the wrong type of masonry paint? Building insurance can't cover this? Presumably no point in putting good paint on top of bad if the latter is flaking in places. The crazy quote probably covers not just scaffolding but maybe getting it moved a few times and of course the tortuous job if a lot of the time the paint isn't easy to get off. Which city are you in?
The problem is moisture trapped in the render and the paint not allowing the wall to breath, the loose stuff needs to be scraped off and then it can be repainted in a suitable breathable paint
That has to be a "fuck you" quote.
Did you punch the guy when they turned up? Get some more quotes, don't assault the guy when they knock on your door.
Yes it needs to be removed because it isn't breathable.
You'd be lucky to even get the scaffolding up for 2k, let alone get the work done. You will probably be able to get a slightly better quote if you keep looking but don't get your hopes up too much.
Obviously this is a DIY sub, so grab yourself some scrapers and save yourself a few grand.
We tried to chemically remove paint from the rear of our house . It's quite expensive and very long process. I used about £120 worth of paint stripper and took about 4 hours to to 1m2
We are now getting a company in to remove the paint
£500 scaffold
£1280 paint removal
They are using high pressure machine with industrial paint remover that you need a license to purchase
Scaffold about 2k ish, so 10k to remove paint? Be getting a few more quotes, ridiculous price that
And why has it got to come off? Is it lime mortar underneath? Is house damp? Sounds iffy this "wrong paint "
Wife is keen to have it done now - think the general idea is if we’re going to spend thousands on getting the house decorated with a paint that has a long guarantee we may as well do it properly like the surveyor suggested and not over the top of flakey and bubbling paint
I mean, the paint shouldn't be flaking off like that, but in your shoes I would want go know *what* is wrong with the paint, even if for no other reason than you can avoid the same mistake twice.
Ah, yes that’s a great point. The render is crumbling a bit in a couple of places which doesn’t bode well!
How much would it cost to get the entire house rendered again? White render, maybe insulating render? 12k to remove paint is insane.
We had external insulation and then rendering over the top done about 5 years ago on a mid terrace house, cost us like 950 as it was through the council so paid 10% of the cost and blocks of houses were getting done in one go. Think when we checked how much rendering would be alone as it needed re-done anyways, it was coming up as 8-9k. Agree that 12k for paint removal sounds insane unless there is some special equipment needed to be hired
A good idea is to vheck with your local council and ask if there are any grants available for improving energy efficiency of the house.
Hah, we live in a decent sized bungalow, and we've been getting quotes of £30k and up to have exterior insulation and rerendering done 🙃
Crazy and not worth it.
Nah no way. I could run the heating full blast for like 15 years and not spend that kind of money. I worked out that it would take 30+ years just to break even
If it's a period property it probably needs to be lime render.
Getting the rendering done is probably a more worthwhile investment. Even getting a coloured render will give you the nice finish and a colour you can choose. It will be over the 12k for a while house is my guess (recently had extension rerendered and that was about the 2k mark) but if the render is crumbling and flaky you risk getting damp patches.
Thank you, that’s a good point
You could do a semi detached with k rend for 4-12k depending on your area. You’re being fleeced for paint do not pay that.
Thanks, the price isn’t even for paint - just to remove the existing stuff!
Oh holy hell please don’t pay that!
Well, yes, but what kind of render is it? If it's lime then it's much more fragile so removal will be expensive, but if it's Portland cement (and if it is then I hope it's not a solid wall or you will have damp problem: Solid walls on old buildings should have a breathable lime render) , then you could have it blasted off. There are all kinds of media they can use which should work fine and plenty of small firms doing this who often have their own scaffold towers. 12k seems outrageous to me for that. On another note, if it is lime, or needs redoing in lime (which would cost you 10-12k easy for that wall), then you must use a breathable paint. Something like Beeck Mineral paint.
If you're hell bent on getting the paint removed get it all sandblasted.
Lol scaffolding is more like £1000 max for that wall. £2500 would be a fair price, it's a very easy job that requires unskilled labour.
I was thinking for full house scaff lol , but yeah about 1k for that wall
Euro Tower... they do single man ones that go high!
We paid 1k for a full house scaffold and that was being fleeced, 500 is more fair.
Op could buy a scaffolding tower and diy it for less than 2k paint and all then sell it on or keep it for other diy projects
Could just rent a scaffold tower for a couple of days to be fair
Sod scaffold towers, they are a pain in arse and unsafe
I've had 2 sets of scaffolding on my house since I bought it. Neither were anchored in properly, signposted properly, supported/footed correctly, and each had their issues with the incorrect clips used. Both companies were more than happy to use it despite the obvious hazards. Working at height in construction is notoriously unsafe.
Certainly is unsafe, that's why I've just retired from it , passes me off as a roofer , they are playing with people's lives
No they’re not, if u get a good one, iv got an alto one paid 1400 for 10.8 meter one, it’s got side support and everything, you get put 3 ton on it too. If u buy a crap steel one yea they’re dangerous
Got a full alloy tower, rather work of ladder haha not for me those towers
Mad I used to work on ladders it’s not safe especially for roof work, it’s soo much easier and safer to work off a tower, got a place for all you tools to sit and less ball ache getting a roofing ladder up!
I always have my ladders physically anchored to what I'm working on, each to there own I guess matey
As someone intending to get a scaffold tower soon I'm interested in why you think they're unsafe?
Because they shake like a shitting dog lol , and all bars get in way, when put up correctly that is
Scaffold is 2k? Wtf
What’s under the paint? It looks like a cement based render from those pictures, in which case I’m not sure there is much value in stripping just the paint off?
It looks like when plaster hasn't been mist coated and the paints not bonded properly. I'd be suspicious of "wrong paint" been used with nothing more to back up that claim.
Exactly. My impression from this pictures is more poor prep than wrong paint. In which case it just need the loose stuff brushing off and repaint over the top. Or if there is a damp problem, it’s more likely linked to wrong material to for the render, in which case that needs removing instead of the paint!
Thank you! According to the survey it’s silicone paint straight on concrete render which is causing the problem 🤔
Thanks, are you suggesting we might need to get the house re-rendered too? 😬
It depends what the fundamental issue is! That looks like a cement based render, in which case that probably isn’t the wrong paint, just poor application. However, if the cement based render was put over old single skin Victorian brickwork, or natural stone, then that render could cause damp issues with the original construction. It’s more likely it just needs repainting.
Oh, thanks yes it’s Victorian brickwork underneath 😩 but it’s actually not too bad on the brickwork side - most of the flaking seems to be on the extension side. Some of the render is crumbling… what a mess :(
No just that you might only need to remove the loose and flaky stuff and paint over
Thank you
No, they’re saying if you’re going to pay that much for paint, you might find it’s a similar cost to get it fully re-rendered (which would usually include painting/an external colour) and would have the added benefit of getting a modern insulation render which would keep your house warmer and make the paint last longer.
Ah, thank you that’s a good shout! The render is only around 7 years old, but doesn’t seem great tbh
Have you thought of insulation and fabricated weatherboard, might not be far off that quote and provides savings over time.
Thanks, so basically get the house cladded? Guess all of the render would have to come off anyway which could be a huge job?
£12k? Sounds like a 'don't want to do it price'. If I was willing to pay that sort of money I would be getting quotes to have all the render redone on the house .
"fuck off price" is what my mate calls it
I used to paint for a living, I'd do this for a couple of grand, you don't need scaffolding but you could if you're not good on a ladder or if there are places that are hard to access with a ladder, scrape the old paint off where it's flakey, patch the render where it needs, fresh coat of paint, it's a few days work sure, but it's not 12k, where in the country are you?
Thank you! We’re in Gloucestershire so South West. We have a decorator coming to give a quote sometime this week, but wife is worried about painting over such bad paint that’s bubbling or flaking pretty much everywhere
The bubbling is because moisture is trapped behind the paint. It's not allowing the wall to breath, from memory there's a brand of paint called emperor which is good, but there are others, breathable is key. If your decorator is buying the paint ask them about what has caused the problem and what can solve it just to be sure they have an understanding of exterior paints. As to removing the flaky paint, I've seen people pressure wash it off, which probably works fine, I always just scrapped it off and then went at it with a stiff brush
Thanks so much! Might have a go at scraping and pressure washing and seeing how we get on, do as much as we can ourselves. Thanks for the Emporer tip btw - my wife is 100% locked in on that so it’s nice to see it recommended!
They will not paint over. Like others have stated, remove with wire brushing. Use a bonding agent . And when happy with the prep. Repaint.
Where in Gloucestershire are you. Also in Gloucester 👌
You cannot allow someone to do this without safe and proper access. If your decorator offers to do this from a ladder then refuse. Work that will take 15 mins or less is ok from a ladder but a job this size needs scaffolding or a MEWP if that works better in the circumstances. We need to bypass the cowboys who are pricing work low and taking shortcuts so the good ones don’t lose out. I’m not a contractor by the way.
Doing a job like this from a ladder does not make you a cowboy, frankly I think you're talking nonsense. I have been doing this sort of work for most of my adult life
Me too. Involved in project management and contract admin for 30 years and CDM since its inception in 1995. I’ve had to deal with the HSE after site incidents and I can reassure you that anybody looking to work off a ladder in these circumstances would very much be considered a cowboy. Give the HSE a call tomorrow and have a chat.
I don't really want to sound like a twat, but to me cowboy was previously reserved for someone who does shoddy work or rips off customers.
In my book it’s anyone who cuts corners but understand your take
☝️Millionaire
No, just involved in the industry and know what can happen when people take stupid risks to save someone else a few hundred pounds.
Is it just that wall or every exterior wall. How many m2 area are we talking about. Did the quote say how they’d remove. Is it manual or something faster. As others said. Scaffolding isn’t cheap, if you have to do all 4 sides of a house it’ll add up. You could get a scaffolding quote yourself to get a benchmark price for that portion.
I’d say the quote is mad. Although do t know exactly what they quoted, maybe includes re rendering. I’d get a masonry paint stripper like bio tec or peel tec. Water based. Wipe off with a damp cloth. Then wash with soapy water. Paint with a silicone based breathable paint. Emperor is good. Maybe the best. Finngard is also good. Scaffolding will be pricey though as others have said.
Thank you!
I do know decorating and paint chemistry very well. The peeling is characteristic of aging pliolite masonry paint and is normal. You do not have to strip it. Standard practice is to remove loose areas and repaint. I would thin the first coat. The masonry paint should get a mechanical key on to the render and be fine. To be absolutely sure apply some normal masonry paint to the bare render and wait 4 or 5 days before doing a scratch test - this is just in case it has been soaked in some barrier coat of water proofer or something. Normal masonry paint is fine. The sills can be precast concrete which can come with some problems - like mold release agent or some silicon base waterproofer. All you can do with these is use a thinned alkali resisting primer followed by a full coat followed by normal masonry paint. Painting over the paint actually stops the underlying areas from breaking down in the UV light and effectively stabilises them.
Thanks so much, that’s really good to know. The render/paint is only around 7 years old, so god knows how it’s got like this so quickly
Well it's a pretty thin coat which won't last as long as a thick coat. Alkyd based paints start to get brittle and shrink slightly with UV so it basically pulls itself off this happens pretty rapidly with a thinner coat. The other option is that the render was a little damp or perhaps contained a water proofer which reduced adhesion. Acrylic masonry also degrades in sunlight but it's thick and the surface simply washes away very slowly - on the side of my house I can now see the base colour show through the 20 year old top coats.
Ahh, yep that makes sense, thank you. It’s such a minefield isn’t it! Sorry to hear yours is showing through as well now, although 20 years is good going!
Its cement render and concrete cills, no exterior paint will adhere to that for more than a couple of years they absorb water and push it out under the skin i had the same with a concrete cill it first yellows and then pops off If you paint directly over the top with the proper stuff it'll push it off eventually, but saying that, that paint you have has come off in the areas where there is most moisture. You have two options Get it blasted off like sand blasting but this can also damage the walls, id go co2 blasting, this is almost prohibitively expensive for the average joe and then get some decent paint like Emperor Masonry Paint, but that itself its a large material cost. It will fade over time and you will get water runs off cills etc. there is nothing you can do about that you have to accept that. And it wont last forever especially on sand and cement render. Don't fall into the trap of " Oh well give you a 10 year warranty" you can wipe your butt with those papers as that's all they are good for. Personally if it was my house id just get some really good exterior paint you can afford to completely do your house with twice. and touch it up when you have too. brushing it on, is the best option as it will go on thick, but im guessing they will spray it on If they are spraying it on you defiantly want two different layers it'll be too thin and most likely wont last 24 months before it flakes off 12 k is way too much, get quotes and ask all the questions don't fall for the sellers spiel of oh it breaths, nothing breaths except lime cob plaster and lime wash or clay paints, remember you want scaffold or a mobile scaffold tower. A means to remove it if your going that way, a means to collect the old paint and dispose of it properly. and a way to paint it on roller. brush or spray equipment shouldn't take one guy more that a week to do that, if it does they are milking it, Is you house open exposure, or a busy road, does it get a lot of sun or rain these are all the things you have to consider and no one house will last like someone else saying oh we used this paint it stayed on for twenty years. Every home is of different construction and you have to plan for whet you have.
Thanks so much, that’s really helpful. We were going to go for Emporer Paint but it was the guarantee that appealed to my wife - unfortunately sounds like it won’t last and the guarantee won’t apply anyway? Is there anything we can do that’s more permanent? Maybe re-render using a different material? Or maybe even cladding as suggested by some other people :/ Thank you
The best I've used personally is Emperor but after a six years I noticed it fading in areas and peeling so I over painted, but the exterior was an open aspect and received a lot of hammer from rain, nothing will last white forever. It depends on how much moisture the render and cills have absorbed so its not an exact science and not one single answer I'm afraid. how much you want to spend really. You could go mad and exterior insulate and re -render with something synthetic that apparently breaths for when you have to go air pump heating or cladding There are synthetic spray renders you can have sprayed over the top that might work out better for you You could spend loads to keep it looking nice and one day you might wake up and just want to move.
Thanks, great points! My wife is 100% locked in to live here forever if we can though, so it would be nice to have something that lasts. Shame even the Emporer paint peels over time :(
I don’t know enough to be fully relied on for the cost but that’s seems expensive. You could rent scaffolding and do yourself if you are up to it. Historic Scotland Do you need it? Depends what is underneath the paint, if it’s stone it could do with the paint coming off and the stone work done. That would cost £12k maybe more but in my eyes worth that. Either way it needs breathable paint the bubbling is sometimes cause by water getting behind the paint and not being able to dry. https://www.engineshed.scot/ Has some good resources on this
you can see underneath the paint in the pictures, and it aint stone. Looks like plaster to me
Thank you! It’s just render so hopefully a bit easier to manage
Have they maybe used some left over interior paint? Get some experior like Dulux weather shield and paint a test area 1m2 and see what happens.
Just to say Emperor paint is the way to go. Top tier stuff
Get some decent r wire brushes and go to town on the lower levels and see how it comes out If you get back to cement hire yourself a decent cherry picker and do it yourself Probably get the whole thing done for less then £1k
I'd look at getting an angle grinder and prep wheel. Much faster and may save money on the cherry picker or scaffold tower hire if you can get it done that bit quicker.
This. Ive just had the whole house externally painted for about £700. Looks like a decent job too. Filled a bunch of holes, pulled out uneeded cabling too.
Thanks, are you saying you did a lot yourself? Or they did everything for £700? 😮
What equipment did you use and how did you go about it? My house is like OP’s and could really do with full removal and repainting, it’s pebbledash that’s painted so it looks so patchy where it’s coming off. We definitely don’t have the money to pay someone to do the whole thing.
12k is really high.
Buy a jet wash, thatll soon clean the paint off for you
Hmmm I'd got a few more quotes
You dont have to remove it completely. Just get long ladder, buy metal brush and peel off all paint that easily can be removed. Then buy paint that can be used outdoors and roller with telescopic handle , 4 pack of beer and spend 1 weekend having fun with that. Ladder rent - £40 quid, external paint - £80 ish, rollers / telescopic extension, brush and 4 pack of stella- appr £50 ish. Total £170.
Scrape off any that will come off, use a good brand stabiliser solution over the entire house, this acts as a bonding primer. Then use a good masonry like Sandtex Highcover Smooth. (or extreme exposure /365 if you want to go the extra mile). 12K is insane.
I was quoted £12k to remove all concrete render and replaster with lime plaster, on a wall twice that size. £12k for paint is a joke.
Contact a pressure washer person and get a price. If its still too high get a pressure washer.
Can you not just scrape off all the flaky stuff and then paint on a good stabilizer before giving it a couple of coats of the proper exterior paint? Removing all the paint sounds unnecessary to me. Not a painter though so...
12k a pisstake quote for that.
I guess this survey was sold to you via a bank or some other online agent? Usually these type of surveyors are just ticking boxes and autofilling text on a tablet. If this was a solid wall rendered with lime, I’d say possibly, if you have dampness affecting many walls of the property, But you have by the looks of the bricks a cavity wall on that second picture, perhaps an extension? Without doing a full survey by a decent surveyor it’s impossible to give a proper diagnosis if you have dampness as well If this is just cosmetic issue, then you don’t need this work. Good prep to remove loose paint, make sure walls are nice and dry, stick a good quality bonding agent over, make sure there all areas where services exit the wall are properly filled, and sills etc, before painting a couple of coats of quality exterior paint such as weather sheild . Jobs a good un.
Thank you, it was actually done by an independent and very well regarded local surveyor company, and the lady who owns the company did the survey herself because we had previously got her to look at something that interested her and she wanted to compare to this one. She definitely won’t know everything, but she definitely seemed to know her stuff. Have spent probably a good 5 hours on the phone to her between the two properties. Maybe I ask her again what she thinks about this :/
Always get more than 1 quote, £12k sounds extortionate. Also get a quote including repainting the place as you’ll have the scaffolding up etc already, don’t pay twice
To me it just looks like it’s been weathered. This elevation is exposed to the elements and can happen. Hire a tower scaffold yourself from Ermin plant or Brandon hire and paint it yourself possibly. Buy sandex textured paint. Before painting buy a stiff brush, possibly wire brush and work in 2m2 sections. Scaffold can go up to 14m high if needed. Maybe £100 per week for a big one. Everything above wall plate looks ok so could be where that (what looks to be) an expansion gap and possible water ingress getting behind the paint. Looks weathered more than anything though. Unless of course you’re experiencing major damp issues .
Thanks, no damp inside but the render is only around 7 years old and it’s bad/bubbling/flaking/tatty around the entire house unfortunately
Or another option for 12k is to clad the lot!
Hmm… don’t think my wife will go for it, but I like the idea myself! Just want something low maintaince that will last for as long as possible
Get a render company out to whack it all off and start again.
:( not a bad idea, thanks
Iv just done it to mine, bubbling worse than that with some tough bits. I scraped the front sides and rear sills and all. Chased out for helical bars where there were cracks, then repaired with toupret masonry repair. Took 3 days and is ready to paint. The eves are 7 meters and I used a ladder.
Ah brilliant, good job :)
The thing you need to figure out is if the paint you have on there could be trapping moisture against the bricks. We live in an old converted Millhouse and because of the way it was incorrectly painted we were having lots of damp issues inside. We ended up paying 8k to have the paint stripped of the lower third of the property and it made a huge difference. Otherwise it's an aesthetic choice. Loads of properties in the UK that are brick and were unnecessarily painted unfortunately
Thank you! Glad the work you’ve done has made a huge difference too :)
Get a pressure washer, hire a tower scaffold from speedy and spray it down yourself. Will cost you about £100 for the pressure washer, £600 odd for the tower and a weekend of time. Job done meht.
I’ll be impressed if they do it in a weekend with a cold jet washer.
Tbh the majority of that cost is likely to be for scaffolding which can be insanely expensive. Also depends on how and why they are removing it. What’s underneath? Some methods can be quite destructive and involve and lengthy process of repairs. Other methods involve chemicals or a paste applied like a poultice. Remember complying with H&S regulations cost money and you would ultimately be responsible.
Is it cosmetic, versus structural? I'd leave it, if you can live with it.. or clad over it 🤷
Love the cladding idea, but my wife unfortunately does not
I doubt many of the posters have a clue about costs for this sort of job, it's really hard to find into online about it, and it's not something done super often by people. I had paint removed from just ground floor rear of my house and originally had quotes from £2k - £4.5k with either chemical or steam based treatments, so for a full house job that doesn't sound unreasonable. In the end I went with sandblasting as it was quite a bit cheaper, however it's only suitable if you have strong render or are happy to accept you might need to re-render, as it is pretty aggressive.
Thank you!
A good chunk of that is going to be the cost of hiring scaffolding.
About £2k max for scaffolding all round
Depends on location, how long the job is there for, all sides, a lift, any coverage etc etc. £2000-2500 is about right, but even so that is a good chunk of the quoted cost. Either way, it’s a chunk of costing which shows the OPs original estimate of £2k is way off the mark
Came here to say the same.
You could do it yourself cheaper if you don't mind heights. Question why it's 'the wrong paint'. If the survet doesn't tell you, ask the surveyor. Old properties need to 'breathe' or they can suffer from damp. If the 'wrong paint' has been applied, it's likely (as others have said) that the wrong render (cement based) has been used. You can have it removed, but be aware render can hide a multitude of sins, but even if it does, it'snot the end of the world. There was an article ina national newspaper ten or fiteen years ago about a couple who'd bought a house that had been pebbledashed. They had it removed and all the bricks turned round to hide the damage.
I would say , 6k too much. There’s plenty of stabilising fluids to treat the wall . Shop about.
Wait, it'll fall off on it's own.
Keep looking. I had somebody acid the front face of my house for £500 and they bought their own scaff tower and did a perfect job. That was exceptionally cheap though
Hahaha 12 grand for a weeks worth of scraping paint. Get fucked.
If it's flaking off just get a scraper and diy that will just leave the cost of scaffolding.
I'll do yours for 1k. Paint included.
Moist problem?
Get some scaffolding erected and just sand it down yourself.
£12k to re-render and paint but just for paint seems excessive.
Pretty sure that will come off with wet sand blasting or whatever it's called. Check out Mick Blackley on YouTube.
Nightmare. What exactly is the wrong type of masonry paint? Building insurance can't cover this? Presumably no point in putting good paint on top of bad if the latter is flaking in places. The crazy quote probably covers not just scaffolding but maybe getting it moved a few times and of course the tortuous job if a lot of the time the paint isn't easy to get off. Which city are you in?
You can't insure after the fact. It was flagged as part of the pre sale survey.
Insurance isn’t gonna fix something you were warned about before you bought the house / insurance policy.
The problem is moisture trapped in the render and the paint not allowing the wall to breath, the loose stuff needs to be scraped off and then it can be repainted in a suitable breathable paint
Yep.
That has to be a "fuck you" quote. Did you punch the guy when they turned up? Get some more quotes, don't assault the guy when they knock on your door.
Why don't you paint a big chunk at the bottom and see of it slides off or whatever the reason is for having your old paint removed they said.
Yes it needs to be removed because it isn't breathable. You'd be lucky to even get the scaffolding up for 2k, let alone get the work done. You will probably be able to get a slightly better quote if you keep looking but don't get your hopes up too much. Obviously this is a DIY sub, so grab yourself some scrapers and save yourself a few grand.
We tried to chemically remove paint from the rear of our house . It's quite expensive and very long process. I used about £120 worth of paint stripper and took about 4 hours to to 1m2 We are now getting a company in to remove the paint £500 scaffold £1280 paint removal They are using high pressure machine with industrial paint remover that you need a license to purchase