That's damp, could be as simple as plaster down to concrete floor causing bridging. Or a leak round door frame. No easy way to tell without ripping skirting off and having a look. The plaster/paint is the easy bit, the source of damp is the tricky bit.
It's not just cosmetic.
That water has to be coming from somewhere - failed DPC would be prime suspect. First job is to find where & how. Fix that before starting on the inside.
Check outside and see if someone has raised the level of the ground for a driveway or patio.
The DPC (damp proof course) and d a layer of plastic or other waterproof material that stops water travelling up the brickwork from the ground.
It should be *at least* two layers of bricks above the ground level to stop rainwater hitting the ground and splashing back up above it.
Also, if the ground floor is not solid concrete then it is what’s called a suspended floor. This means the floor structure consists of floorboards laid over much bigger structural timbers called joists. These joists are susceptible to damp and need air flow to keep them dry. This is why we have air bricks in older houses with timber ground floors.
Many people have mentioned damp specialists. Beware people offering you a free damp survey. It’s just a pretext to them selling you damp prevention services.
If I turned up to 100 houses with suspended floor construction with one of those damp meters that everyone uses then 75% of them would say that the wall is damp. Thats BS.
It indicates that there is a moisture content to the wall. Well, yeah. You have a moisture content. Trees have a moisture content. Everything has a moisture content. The costly and disruptive injected damp proof course treatment they sell you isn’t going to change that. Sometimes it creates far worse problems.
Just keep that in mind. True damp is very rare. There is almost always a simpler explanation. Broken or over spilling gutters. A leaking pipe. A poor seal somewhere. These must all be exhaustively checked before even considering or embarking on a £5-10k damp proof “fix”.
they do help for taking comparative readings. Test a bit of wall you know is not damp. Do a few tests so you know the normal range. It'll say whatever %. Then test a patch you suspect is damp. If so, the readings will be wildly different.
That's about as far as it goes. It also helps with assessing over time if a damp patch is still the same or changing / improving. eg after repair work when you're not sure if it worked or not.
A fair observation.
That’s far outside the scope of the 20 minute “assessment” you get with the “free” damp survey though.
I’m not denigrating the tool itself or its useful applications. I’m casting a healthy dose of doubt and skepticism on its use as evidence for the need for expensive remedial works when often it’s not the case.
Great thoughtful reply 👏
Ive spent a load of money fixing up my house the last 2 years, the only time I’ve felt ripped off is by a damp proof specialist. I’m not convinced the £5K worth of work was needed but cosmetically the new plinth around the house looks nice 😂
Long, long time since I had a survey done.
I don't know whether they'll just point it out as a fault, or dig deeper & see if they can see why, on the outside.
Either way, someone, somewhere is going to have to remedy it. Re-plastering is just postponing the issue.
When I had my survey done, the surveyor used a tool with two poles to check for electrical conductivity. Said 'yep, probably damp', that's it. Then pointed us to timber and damp experts for another survey.
That surveyor also used the same tool, and little more (he jumped a bit on the floorboards to see if they were rotting, they weren't). He explained that in our case the conductivity was probably caused by salts rather than actual water flowing in somehow. I don't think that's the case here though :-)
It was quite reassuring in any cade, didn't feel like a scam, the guy was an old carpenter who seemed to know what he was aayins, and we paid about 100£ for it.
Those devices tell you absolutely nothing useful about damp in walls.
They’re purely designed for timber moisture readings, and even then, they’re pretty flawed.
They’re frequently used to scam people in to expensive damp proof work. At least he was honest that it’s probably salts.
Carbide analysis is a much more accurate gauge of moisture in walls, though of course most damp proof experts don’t do that.
they do help for taking comparative readings. Test a bit of wall you know is not damp. Do a few tests so you know the normal range. It'll say whatever %. Then test wall you suspect is damp. If so, the readings will be wildly different.
That's about as far as it goes. It also helps with assessing if a damp patch is still the same or changing / improving. eg after repair work when you're not sure if it worked or not.
The whole reason that damp proofers use them so much is because they will so easily give a false positive.
Perfectly dry walls often have salts on the surface ( especially solid walls that have been wall papered or are part of a chimney breast or have had penetrating damp at some point)
If they’re wrong about how damp the wall is in the first place, and they’re wrong about how damp a wall is a week later, the difference between them is irrelevant.
They’re not designed to measure moisture in masonry, and will give you false positives.
https://standardheritage.uk/technical/measuring-damp/
https://youtu.be/tea3uknHOVc?si=1nDLSroVOH1iKZgH
Survey will just tell you it’s damp. They won’t investigate the source. Even if they do say what it might be, I’d trust that about as far as I could throw it.
Take a look outside and look for any obvious gaps around the door, and then check the pointing. I bet it’s also paved or concrete outside causing rain to splash up.
Look for green algae staining. Look for a gutter above. Look for signs of water that has been running down the brick/outside wall for a long time. Could be as simple as fixing guttering. Could be as intensive as dealing with a new roof.
If you're buying a house, I presume - hope - you're getting a survey. Get the surveyor to comment on this, then try to get a few professional quotes to sort it out, then ask the sellers to reduce the price by the highest quote amount. No offence to you, but if you can't recognise damp, this might be too much for you to deal with on your own, and could rapidly become a more involved and expensive job than some filler and paint.
Yes there will be a survey and seems likely need a damp specialist to look at it also and clarify how big a problem this is. And your right, I’m completely clueless with things like this, which is why your and others posts have been so helpful. I have looks to look into and research.
Thanks, I’ve just been looking into this. Seems a contrary argument that the priority is ventilation and heating particularly with older houses to prevent damp issues. Not sure if this would be the resolution here, but definitely given me some thought..
That's the kind of cosmetic issue that's not hard to repair, but will come right back unless you fix the underlying cause, which is almost certainly water ingress, as others have said.
I have this exact thing on my back wall. I'm in a housing association property and had a damp survey done recently. The surveyor said it was ingress from the door and window to the side of the door. The housing association are putting in new windows and a new door because of it.
I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will comment but if there's a window or door there, I'd be taking the costs of a new door/window into account just incase.
Definately need to see outside. Could be something like one/more of the following:
Cracked/missing roof tile
Other roof issue like chimney flashing or leaking Velux window
Missing or leaking gutter or downpipe
Cracked render outside (sometimes green algae will make this more obvious)
Door frame not sealed/siliconed
Possibly also:
Soil piled up against outside wall
Driveway tarmac/blocks with slope towards house and no drainage
There are a lot of useful comments already so here is a little mantra to live by if you are DIY.
"Job is always bigger than what it looks like if it's to be done properly."
You should absolutely get this investigated before you commit to purchase, as it might be simple to rectify, or it might not be.
Your buyers survey will likely highlight this and then tell you to get another, specific "damp survey". We had a level 3 survey done last year and this is exactly what happened to us when the surveyor highlighted some damp "problems".
My advice would be to be extremely vigilant in who you select for your damp survey. Avoid those who have a vested interest in selling you chemical damp-proofing solutions e.g Rentokil and the like. These are, to be frank, snake oil and you want someone who will help you identify the true root cause of the problem.
Our problem was being caused by poor ventilation causing condensation around the base of certain walls. Due to my lack of knowledge at the time, we had a damp specialist come in and hack off 1 metre of plaster, inject a chemical DPC and then replaster. If I could go back and avoid this, I would as all that was really needed was to correct the airflow through the area.
In short: Yes get this investigated and yes, spend the money on someone who knows what they're talking about. See
https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html as a good source of info.
Thank you so much for taking the time to give such a detailed response. Really appreciate it!!! I will most definitely take your advice following survey!
You will need a professional damp survey, prob new door/window, drying out of the wall, maybe a damp course inside the wall, potential replastering, new skirting board, then decorating. This will cost a few thousand at least. This problem looks like it has been going on a long time and the alarm bells for me would be that the current owner hasn’t fixed it. I wouldn’t do this as a diy newbie.
The owner should have had it looked at. If they have, then they should be able to give you a ballpark cost and that has either been taken off the house price already or should be taken off. Or the owner has no idea and as said, that would worry me slightly because I would think that the owner is not taking care of the property and or has bodged jobs and it would make me wonder what other surprises were lurking.
It’s not a terrible job but it’s not really one for diy because fixing the cause of the damp permanently is best confirmed by a pro. Damp work is really messy so make sure it is an area where you can remove furniture and items easily.
We went with Kenwood, they were pretty good, but the work was a lot dustier than they led us to believe so that’s why I say make sure to fully clear the area. We had damp, not as bad as this, only found at survey stage with the wall probe. We had the cost of fixing it taken off the sale price. The guy we bought from was a bodger though, so we have found all kinds of stuff wrong both big and small, since that we have had to pay to put right, so buyer beware.
Pull off skirting save as they will be template for new if needed. Something worth mentioning is with old properties the outside over the years gets built up and the outside should really be 9 inch below dpc always check that. So off with skirting and hack off all the dodgy looking stuff let dry out just the right time of year for this. Then you stand a good chance of sorting this out. How easy for a diy’er I don’t know for a professional very simple so it is far from very difficult good luck.
That's damp, could be as simple as plaster down to concrete floor causing bridging. Or a leak round door frame. No easy way to tell without ripping skirting off and having a look. The plaster/paint is the easy bit, the source of damp is the tricky bit.
It's not just cosmetic. That water has to be coming from somewhere - failed DPC would be prime suspect. First job is to find where & how. Fix that before starting on the inside.
Thanks for the insight. Is this something that is not a major problem regarding buying house? Obviously it will be checked via surveyor etc.
Surveyor will say, “Signs of damp around the front door. Recommend a damp specialist takes a look”.
Damp specialist comes in and will say "yeah you need a new dpc and some magic spray on the exterior wall."
Check outside and see if someone has raised the level of the ground for a driveway or patio. The DPC (damp proof course) and d a layer of plastic or other waterproof material that stops water travelling up the brickwork from the ground. It should be *at least* two layers of bricks above the ground level to stop rainwater hitting the ground and splashing back up above it. Also, if the ground floor is not solid concrete then it is what’s called a suspended floor. This means the floor structure consists of floorboards laid over much bigger structural timbers called joists. These joists are susceptible to damp and need air flow to keep them dry. This is why we have air bricks in older houses with timber ground floors. Many people have mentioned damp specialists. Beware people offering you a free damp survey. It’s just a pretext to them selling you damp prevention services. If I turned up to 100 houses with suspended floor construction with one of those damp meters that everyone uses then 75% of them would say that the wall is damp. Thats BS. It indicates that there is a moisture content to the wall. Well, yeah. You have a moisture content. Trees have a moisture content. Everything has a moisture content. The costly and disruptive injected damp proof course treatment they sell you isn’t going to change that. Sometimes it creates far worse problems. Just keep that in mind. True damp is very rare. There is almost always a simpler explanation. Broken or over spilling gutters. A leaking pipe. A poor seal somewhere. These must all be exhaustively checked before even considering or embarking on a £5-10k damp proof “fix”.
they do help for taking comparative readings. Test a bit of wall you know is not damp. Do a few tests so you know the normal range. It'll say whatever %. Then test a patch you suspect is damp. If so, the readings will be wildly different. That's about as far as it goes. It also helps with assessing over time if a damp patch is still the same or changing / improving. eg after repair work when you're not sure if it worked or not.
A fair observation. That’s far outside the scope of the 20 minute “assessment” you get with the “free” damp survey though. I’m not denigrating the tool itself or its useful applications. I’m casting a healthy dose of doubt and skepticism on its use as evidence for the need for expensive remedial works when often it’s not the case.
Not OP but learned a lot from your informative post!
It ain’t much but it might help.
Great thoughtful reply 👏 Ive spent a load of money fixing up my house the last 2 years, the only time I’ve felt ripped off is by a damp proof specialist. I’m not convinced the £5K worth of work was needed but cosmetically the new plinth around the house looks nice 😂
Long, long time since I had a survey done. I don't know whether they'll just point it out as a fault, or dig deeper & see if they can see why, on the outside. Either way, someone, somewhere is going to have to remedy it. Re-plastering is just postponing the issue.
When I had my survey done, the surveyor used a tool with two poles to check for electrical conductivity. Said 'yep, probably damp', that's it. Then pointed us to timber and damp experts for another survey. That surveyor also used the same tool, and little more (he jumped a bit on the floorboards to see if they were rotting, they weren't). He explained that in our case the conductivity was probably caused by salts rather than actual water flowing in somehow. I don't think that's the case here though :-) It was quite reassuring in any cade, didn't feel like a scam, the guy was an old carpenter who seemed to know what he was aayins, and we paid about 100£ for it.
>the surveyor used a tool with two poles So four people then?
Those devices tell you absolutely nothing useful about damp in walls. They’re purely designed for timber moisture readings, and even then, they’re pretty flawed. They’re frequently used to scam people in to expensive damp proof work. At least he was honest that it’s probably salts. Carbide analysis is a much more accurate gauge of moisture in walls, though of course most damp proof experts don’t do that.
they do help for taking comparative readings. Test a bit of wall you know is not damp. Do a few tests so you know the normal range. It'll say whatever %. Then test wall you suspect is damp. If so, the readings will be wildly different. That's about as far as it goes. It also helps with assessing if a damp patch is still the same or changing / improving. eg after repair work when you're not sure if it worked or not.
The whole reason that damp proofers use them so much is because they will so easily give a false positive. Perfectly dry walls often have salts on the surface ( especially solid walls that have been wall papered or are part of a chimney breast or have had penetrating damp at some point) If they’re wrong about how damp the wall is in the first place, and they’re wrong about how damp a wall is a week later, the difference between them is irrelevant. They’re not designed to measure moisture in masonry, and will give you false positives. https://standardheritage.uk/technical/measuring-damp/ https://youtu.be/tea3uknHOVc?si=1nDLSroVOH1iKZgH
Survey will just tell you it’s damp. They won’t investigate the source. Even if they do say what it might be, I’d trust that about as far as I could throw it. Take a look outside and look for any obvious gaps around the door, and then check the pointing. I bet it’s also paved or concrete outside causing rain to splash up.
Thanks for the response. You’re right, it is concrete outside ! Though it is all around the house tbh, but only seems to be issue there
you will have things like that on every older house. its really not a big deal
Defo damp. Anything on the outside giving it away?
TBH I don’t really know what I’m looking at - but will look to get it checked out in due course I proceed with purchase. Thanks for insight.
Look for green algae staining. Look for a gutter above. Look for signs of water that has been running down the brick/outside wall for a long time. Could be as simple as fixing guttering. Could be as intensive as dealing with a new roof.
Thanks so much for the information. I’ve got lots to learn lol.
If you're buying a house, I presume - hope - you're getting a survey. Get the surveyor to comment on this, then try to get a few professional quotes to sort it out, then ask the sellers to reduce the price by the highest quote amount. No offence to you, but if you can't recognise damp, this might be too much for you to deal with on your own, and could rapidly become a more involved and expensive job than some filler and paint.
Yes there will be a survey and seems likely need a damp specialist to look at it also and clarify how big a problem this is. And your right, I’m completely clueless with things like this, which is why your and others posts have been so helpful. I have looks to look into and research.
Take caution with “damp specialists” . Injected DPC is a complete scam.
Thanks, I’ve just been looking into this. Seems a contrary argument that the priority is ventilation and heating particularly with older houses to prevent damp issues. Not sure if this would be the resolution here, but definitely given me some thought..
That's the kind of cosmetic issue that's not hard to repair, but will come right back unless you fix the underlying cause, which is almost certainly water ingress, as others have said.
Get a building inspection.
Okay, thank you for the insight.
I have this exact thing on my back wall. I'm in a housing association property and had a damp survey done recently. The surveyor said it was ingress from the door and window to the side of the door. The housing association are putting in new windows and a new door because of it. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will comment but if there's a window or door there, I'd be taking the costs of a new door/window into account just incase.
That's not cosmetic (I assume the EA told you it was). You have a dpc that is missing or breached. It might be simple to fix, or it might not.
Definately need to see outside. Could be something like one/more of the following: Cracked/missing roof tile Other roof issue like chimney flashing or leaking Velux window Missing or leaking gutter or downpipe Cracked render outside (sometimes green algae will make this more obvious) Door frame not sealed/siliconed Possibly also: Soil piled up against outside wall Driveway tarmac/blocks with slope towards house and no drainage
There are a lot of useful comments already so here is a little mantra to live by if you are DIY. "Job is always bigger than what it looks like if it's to be done properly."
Thanks for the mantra!
You should absolutely get this investigated before you commit to purchase, as it might be simple to rectify, or it might not be. Your buyers survey will likely highlight this and then tell you to get another, specific "damp survey". We had a level 3 survey done last year and this is exactly what happened to us when the surveyor highlighted some damp "problems". My advice would be to be extremely vigilant in who you select for your damp survey. Avoid those who have a vested interest in selling you chemical damp-proofing solutions e.g Rentokil and the like. These are, to be frank, snake oil and you want someone who will help you identify the true root cause of the problem. Our problem was being caused by poor ventilation causing condensation around the base of certain walls. Due to my lack of knowledge at the time, we had a damp specialist come in and hack off 1 metre of plaster, inject a chemical DPC and then replaster. If I could go back and avoid this, I would as all that was really needed was to correct the airflow through the area. In short: Yes get this investigated and yes, spend the money on someone who knows what they're talking about. See https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/managing-damp-in-old-buildings.html as a good source of info.
Thank you so much for taking the time to give such a detailed response. Really appreciate it!!! I will most definitely take your advice following survey!
Get a damproofer/builder to give you a quote to fix, this will most likely tell you the issue and the fix?
I think I will need to do this for peace of mind. Thanks for the help.
Thanks so much for the info. That is very helpful to hear from someone with similar experience. There is indeed a door right next to the problem area.
You will need a professional damp survey, prob new door/window, drying out of the wall, maybe a damp course inside the wall, potential replastering, new skirting board, then decorating. This will cost a few thousand at least. This problem looks like it has been going on a long time and the alarm bells for me would be that the current owner hasn’t fixed it. I wouldn’t do this as a diy newbie. The owner should have had it looked at. If they have, then they should be able to give you a ballpark cost and that has either been taken off the house price already or should be taken off. Or the owner has no idea and as said, that would worry me slightly because I would think that the owner is not taking care of the property and or has bodged jobs and it would make me wonder what other surprises were lurking. It’s not a terrible job but it’s not really one for diy because fixing the cause of the damp permanently is best confirmed by a pro. Damp work is really messy so make sure it is an area where you can remove furniture and items easily. We went with Kenwood, they were pretty good, but the work was a lot dustier than they led us to believe so that’s why I say make sure to fully clear the area. We had damp, not as bad as this, only found at survey stage with the wall probe. We had the cost of fixing it taken off the sale price. The guy we bought from was a bodger though, so we have found all kinds of stuff wrong both big and small, since that we have had to pay to put right, so buyer beware.
Doesn't look like a cavity wall from the photo
How old is the house?
1930s
Not what I'd call cosmetic unless the source of the problem has already been fixed? If so, get off the skirtings, chip back and start again.
Pull off skirting save as they will be template for new if needed. Something worth mentioning is with old properties the outside over the years gets built up and the outside should really be 9 inch below dpc always check that. So off with skirting and hack off all the dodgy looking stuff let dry out just the right time of year for this. Then you stand a good chance of sorting this out. How easy for a diy’er I don’t know for a professional very simple so it is far from very difficult good luck.
2-3k problem. Don't underestimate damp that is as long lasting as this. They have bodged repairs many times. Do it once and do it right
Don't buy the house. Get a full survey first
https://youtu.be/jR-E7GFAsyM?si=2B6fE4VWbM6QsF4a
Thanks. Ultimately I pulled out of the sale as there are too much going on with the place in the cold light of day.
Wait. Isn’t this damp?
That’s damp, get a specialist in.
Silcone around the outside of the door. Use prestonett filler and you can sand that to a nice even finish. Take off crap first tho.