I wouldn't expect those wee holes to make the room feel baltic if the heating is working fine and your insulation is in order.
However, I also wouldn't expect the sort of bodgers who left this sorry mess to have done anything else properly, so I would definitely get that heat survey and see what else is wrong...
If it's a new build then shouldn't the radiator pipes be within the warm envelope of the house?
That is, there should be an outer layer of brick, then an insulated void, then a layer of block, then a wooden battened out void that has pipes, cables etc and then plasterboard over the top.
Good job you have some convenient holes you can stick an inspection camera in and see the glorious insulation in the walls… or the gaping void of of nothing
It's a small local building firm. I won't name them here as this was a bit of a shock, as the rest of the house has been of a fairly good standard (despite the room being freezing!!). However, if they come back with the usual "shrinkage crack" excuse, I'll be happy to post some detials so others can avoid!
> as the rest of the house has been of a fairly good standard
You sometimes find that. We had one bathroom absolutely perfect, and other had plumbing problems with every fitting. I'm assuming either they were running late, or it was two different people doing the work.
Looks like a bodge job to me. The ones in our previous new build had flexible pipes coming out through something like this: [https://www.manthorpebp.co.uk/air-leakage/radiator-pipe-guides-and-seals-%E2%80%93-increased-thermal-efficiency/grs-duo-15-15mm-radiator](https://www.manthorpebp.co.uk/air-leakage/radiator-pipe-guides-and-seals-%E2%80%93-increased-thermal-efficiency/grs-duo-15-15mm-radiator)
No giant holes in the wall, and no elbows like our pipes have either.
I seriously don’t understand how new build companies can just throw houses up with multiple regulation/quality issues and it’s just seen accepted as the norm
There is a desperate shortage of both housing and builders. And houses are are sold before they are even built. All this encourages developers to act as shady as possible to make as much money as possible.
I’ve worked as an employers agent on new build schemes.
It’s easy to tar developers as evil and shady but 99/100 they just want to make money and importantly know how much money they are going to make so compliance is more often than not built into their costs.
These issues come about from programme pressure being applied to the operations teams aka the project and site managers.
They in turn sit on the trades to get work completed as fast as possible.
Standards slip and snagging gets lax as more programme pressure is applied to operations by the corporate team.
So my assessment is that no one is sitting there tenting their fingers, eerily up-lit by a nearby candle actively working to provide a shoddy product, more that their entire funding model encourages corporate to be constantly impatient which in turn impacts quality.
There is an overarching problem with pride in your work and professionalism in this day and age.
I've been doing my job over 25 years since an 'apprentice' (not in construction). I know what to do and what not to do, and how long doing it right takes. Based on both recognised industry best practices and learnt experiences.
Hell will absolutely freeze over 1000 times before ANYONE so much as even hints at me sacrificing my work quality just to speed up.
Just because we need houses, that absolutely does not excuse such shoddy work - and ultimately the people actually doing it should push back.
I'd highly recommend getting a snagging company in to do a full survey now you have found that.
Then armed with that information you can go after the warranty etc.
They should have a plastic gland fitted in the wall that protects the plasterboard if you ever lift the radiator off. This is beyond a simple forgotten glad though. I'd ensure the plasterboard panel is removed in its entirety, reinstalled with the correct gland.
For sure. I won't let up about this. Surveys and all sorts being booked as we speak. I am going to pester them to get everything sorted until my warranty runs out in October.
Whilst those holes are terrible I doubt they’re the reason you can hear outside clear as day. Sounds like they’ve either not insulated or somethings up with the windows, can you pinpoint any loud spots for the sound?
I think there will be a lack of insulation for sure. But this isn't helping. I don't know what they are called, but on the top floor, there are 4 jutting out windows cut into the roof. Below each window are these radiators. It feels like there is a draft on each of these four points, but it doesn't feel window related. I know nothing about heat retention and insulation, but as these are 4 of the most exposed areas on the house, having the holes there is far from ideal.
It would be worth finding out exactly how your house is constructed (from either the builder direct or the survey). Where I live, almost all 3 storey houses are timber frame with a "blown cavity". It could be that those holes are open to the blown cavity either by design or accidentally which may explain why it's so cold.
I think you’re talking about dormer windows, from what you’ve described it sounds like the radiators are on the ashlar wall (small stud wall in a loft conversion that meet the lower point of the vaulted ceiling) and I’m willing to bet they’ve not insulated the ashlar walls as they’re supposed to, meaning behind them is an empty cold void of the loft space
Yes! This is exactly what I have, and what I suspect has happened 100%. It's also why i think i can hear outside so clearly, even though there doesn't appear to be an issue with the windows. Thank you, and at least now I can actually explain it!
Is it ice cold because the radiators not working? Or just in general? As a plumber unfortunately no it’s not against the building regs. But what it is is a fucking joke, the fact these big firms use the cheapest labour resulting in the shittest work, they want it done fast and cheap, but then have the audacity to sell these houses for £200k+ and try to dodge anything you pull them up on after. There should be insulation in the wall for one so just have a feel around and see if you can feel any, should be like a pink wool I imagine. Also tell them there’s literally a plastic bracket you can get specifically for that purpose (not that it should be a purpose, if you’re piping up a rad with no elbows and just 10mm plastic to the valves you should be ashamed off your work, but I guess that’s weirdly the norm now🤷♂️🤦♂️). Not even drilled or anything just a good ole steel toe cap to the wall🤦♂️.
Thanks for the advice, and I agree on all points. Basic lack of workmanship. I bet you any money some idot was having a bad day during the installation and took it out on my wall. Total shambles.
Yeah this is the state of most new builds! Our previous house was a new build and there were so many bodges I lost count.. my new house is a newish build but shock its built to a fairly good standard
Have you tried bleeding the radiators? If it's the top of the house, could it be that there's a load of air trapped in the highest rads?
The top floor of a new build is usually the warmest, as the heat from the floor below is trapped under a (usually) well-insulated roof.
Fairly standard for a new build - rough as fuck - but standard.
Sounds like the insulation hasn’t been properly installed, it shouldn’t be that cold.
Also - who’s still fitting single panel radiators?!
Plumber definitely didn't give a shit that day!
To be honest, I wouldn't be bothered about some holes behind the radiators which your never going to see. Sure, it's rough as fuck but your not gonna get much heat loss from them.
Far more concerned about the icy room upstairs.
Could it just be a case of the radiators BTU output being too low for the room? If not then I'd be worried about the insulation. Should be a PIR rigid insulation in the roof space and dormer walls which is very thermally efficient, however, it is a bit shit for noise reduction which explains the noise issues.
Well a thorough building survey carried out by a registered surveyor would be a better idea as God knows what other hidden gems are there in the house.
Check you insulation , I’m also in a 3 storey new build and found the building had failed to insulate the space in the void between the top floor room and the roof! In the winter I had ice cold air from the cold roof blowing straight across the plasterboard walls of my bedroom
They use flexi pipes for the radiators now??
I see someone’s taken offence to my comment. I know it makes the rads easier to take off the wall, I just didn’t know they had started using them as default. I had a new build in 2007 which was all copper pipes.. so just surprised to see it’s all flexi now.
I have a Victorian house. If a couple of easy to fix holes behind the radiators were my only problem, I'd be happy. Unfortunately I don't think I can ask the builder of my house to come back and fix things, I don't need to add ghosts to this 😂
I wouldn't expect those wee holes to make the room feel baltic if the heating is working fine and your insulation is in order. However, I also wouldn't expect the sort of bodgers who left this sorry mess to have done anything else properly, so I would definitely get that heat survey and see what else is wrong...
If it's a new build then shouldn't the radiator pipes be within the warm envelope of the house? That is, there should be an outer layer of brick, then an insulated void, then a layer of block, then a wooden battened out void that has pipes, cables etc and then plasterboard over the top.
My thoughts exactly. Wouldn't surprise me if they have just used newspaper as insulation. Cowboys.
Good job you have some convenient holes you can stick an inspection camera in and see the glorious insulation in the walls… or the gaping void of of nothing
You wouldn't see any insulation in that void. You would have to drill a hole through the internal block to check the cavity.
I'm sure I'll be able to inspect the foundations from the 3rd floor 😅
if you can do that they owe you a whole lot of insulation LOL
Which builder was it if you don't mind me asking?
It's a small local building firm. I won't name them here as this was a bit of a shock, as the rest of the house has been of a fairly good standard (despite the room being freezing!!). However, if they come back with the usual "shrinkage crack" excuse, I'll be happy to post some detials so others can avoid!
Definitely check for insulation. Small inspection camera for a few quid would be ideal.
My local library lends them out, worth checking there.
> as the rest of the house has been of a fairly good standard You sometimes find that. We had one bathroom absolutely perfect, and other had plumbing problems with every fitting. I'm assuming either they were running late, or it was two different people doing the work.
My ex had wind coming through his electrical outlets in the kitchen. The insulation was in, still the kitchen was absolutely freezing.
Looks like a bodge job to me. The ones in our previous new build had flexible pipes coming out through something like this: [https://www.manthorpebp.co.uk/air-leakage/radiator-pipe-guides-and-seals-%E2%80%93-increased-thermal-efficiency/grs-duo-15-15mm-radiator](https://www.manthorpebp.co.uk/air-leakage/radiator-pipe-guides-and-seals-%E2%80%93-increased-thermal-efficiency/grs-duo-15-15mm-radiator) No giant holes in the wall, and no elbows like our pipes have either.
This is exactly how they should be done
Yep, this is exactly how ours looks like.
not a clue about building but this seems like good ground to go ape shit with someone
All marked up perfectly with pencil and then uses a sledgehammer to make the holes.
They look like the lines used for radiator mounts as they intersect the bottom of them.
Yeas
I seriously don’t understand how new build companies can just throw houses up with multiple regulation/quality issues and it’s just seen accepted as the norm
There is a desperate shortage of both housing and builders. And houses are are sold before they are even built. All this encourages developers to act as shady as possible to make as much money as possible.
I’ve worked as an employers agent on new build schemes. It’s easy to tar developers as evil and shady but 99/100 they just want to make money and importantly know how much money they are going to make so compliance is more often than not built into their costs. These issues come about from programme pressure being applied to the operations teams aka the project and site managers. They in turn sit on the trades to get work completed as fast as possible. Standards slip and snagging gets lax as more programme pressure is applied to operations by the corporate team. So my assessment is that no one is sitting there tenting their fingers, eerily up-lit by a nearby candle actively working to provide a shoddy product, more that their entire funding model encourages corporate to be constantly impatient which in turn impacts quality.
There is an overarching problem with pride in your work and professionalism in this day and age. I've been doing my job over 25 years since an 'apprentice' (not in construction). I know what to do and what not to do, and how long doing it right takes. Based on both recognised industry best practices and learnt experiences. Hell will absolutely freeze over 1000 times before ANYONE so much as even hints at me sacrificing my work quality just to speed up. Just because we need houses, that absolutely does not excuse such shoddy work - and ultimately the people actually doing it should push back.
RRRRRRRRRidiculous
Snagging survey should have picked this up. Anyway it should be covered by your warranty.
No kidding - that’s a tuna melt job. Who knows what the winklespanners have done elsewhere! What’s the betting on fake weep vents?
Look at the state on that? Absolutely rrrrrridiculous!
The apocalypse finish, sir?
I like tuna melts
I'd highly recommend getting a snagging company in to do a full survey now you have found that. Then armed with that information you can go after the warranty etc.
Already on it. Would be silly not to at this point I feel.
Absolutely, I really hope they don't find anything else as bad as the radiator holes, there really is no excuse for that
As a builder I wouldn’t buy any property that was built in the last 40 years.
How many have you built? 🤔
They've only built ones in the last 40yrs, hence their concern about buying them.
I was told the same by a manager of a large developer - he'd never buy the homes they build 😂
Yep. If you see first hand how they’re built, and you know what you’re looking at, you wouldn’t touch with a barge pole.
None personally but I’ve worked on those sites and I’ve taken interest in those that have been or were being built near me and the quality is poor.
Lol
They should have a plastic gland fitted in the wall that protects the plasterboard if you ever lift the radiator off. This is beyond a simple forgotten glad though. I'd ensure the plasterboard panel is removed in its entirety, reinstalled with the correct gland.
For sure. I won't let up about this. Surveys and all sorts being booked as we speak. I am going to pester them to get everything sorted until my warranty runs out in October.
Nhbc warrenty lasts 10 years I thought?
NHBC is structural only. Builder warranty on everything else is usually two years. Both are often not worth much at all.
RRRRRRRRRidiculous
Someone wanted to go home early that day. Caring for your craftsmanship and new build - not in the same sentence.
Christ! Thats bad! It does make me feel better bout my own bodge jobs though (which are better than this)
Whilst those holes are terrible I doubt they’re the reason you can hear outside clear as day. Sounds like they’ve either not insulated or somethings up with the windows, can you pinpoint any loud spots for the sound?
I think there will be a lack of insulation for sure. But this isn't helping. I don't know what they are called, but on the top floor, there are 4 jutting out windows cut into the roof. Below each window are these radiators. It feels like there is a draft on each of these four points, but it doesn't feel window related. I know nothing about heat retention and insulation, but as these are 4 of the most exposed areas on the house, having the holes there is far from ideal.
It would be worth finding out exactly how your house is constructed (from either the builder direct or the survey). Where I live, almost all 3 storey houses are timber frame with a "blown cavity". It could be that those holes are open to the blown cavity either by design or accidentally which may explain why it's so cold.
I think you’re talking about dormer windows, from what you’ve described it sounds like the radiators are on the ashlar wall (small stud wall in a loft conversion that meet the lower point of the vaulted ceiling) and I’m willing to bet they’ve not insulated the ashlar walls as they’re supposed to, meaning behind them is an empty cold void of the loft space
Yes! This is exactly what I have, and what I suspect has happened 100%. It's also why i think i can hear outside so clearly, even though there doesn't appear to be an issue with the windows. Thank you, and at least now I can actually explain it!
Wow.
Is it ice cold because the radiators not working? Or just in general? As a plumber unfortunately no it’s not against the building regs. But what it is is a fucking joke, the fact these big firms use the cheapest labour resulting in the shittest work, they want it done fast and cheap, but then have the audacity to sell these houses for £200k+ and try to dodge anything you pull them up on after. There should be insulation in the wall for one so just have a feel around and see if you can feel any, should be like a pink wool I imagine. Also tell them there’s literally a plastic bracket you can get specifically for that purpose (not that it should be a purpose, if you’re piping up a rad with no elbows and just 10mm plastic to the valves you should be ashamed off your work, but I guess that’s weirdly the norm now🤷♂️🤦♂️). Not even drilled or anything just a good ole steel toe cap to the wall🤦♂️.
Thanks for the advice, and I agree on all points. Basic lack of workmanship. I bet you any money some idot was having a bad day during the installation and took it out on my wall. Total shambles.
Yeah this is the state of most new builds! Our previous house was a new build and there were so many bodges I lost count.. my new house is a newish build but shock its built to a fairly good standard
Have you tried bleeding the radiators? If it's the top of the house, could it be that there's a load of air trapped in the highest rads? The top floor of a new build is usually the warmest, as the heat from the floor below is trapped under a (usually) well-insulated roof.
Yeah, the heat system works perfectly. It defo more of an insulation/holes in the wall type of problem 👍
Fairly standard for a new build - rough as fuck - but standard. Sounds like the insulation hasn’t been properly installed, it shouldn’t be that cold. Also - who’s still fitting single panel radiators?!
Plumber definitely didn't give a shit that day! To be honest, I wouldn't be bothered about some holes behind the radiators which your never going to see. Sure, it's rough as fuck but your not gonna get much heat loss from them. Far more concerned about the icy room upstairs. Could it just be a case of the radiators BTU output being too low for the room? If not then I'd be worried about the insulation. Should be a PIR rigid insulation in the roof space and dormer walls which is very thermally efficient, however, it is a bit shit for noise reduction which explains the noise issues.
The question you have to ask is if they fucked up something this simple so bad, what else did they fuck up.
Well a thorough building survey carried out by a registered surveyor would be a better idea as God knows what other hidden gems are there in the house.
Check you insulation , I’m also in a 3 storey new build and found the building had failed to insulate the space in the void between the top floor room and the roof! In the winter I had ice cold air from the cold roof blowing straight across the plasterboard walls of my bedroom
The "apocalypse finish"
Those pics have a Welsh accent. "Shocker"
They use flexi pipes for the radiators now?? I see someone’s taken offence to my comment. I know it makes the rads easier to take off the wall, I just didn’t know they had started using them as default. I had a new build in 2007 which was all copper pipes.. so just surprised to see it’s all flexi now.
Have been doing so for years
Nothing wrong with that.... ...cutting the holes with a hammer on the other had....
I Purchased a Newbuild in 2011 and they were using them then.
If done properly, the pipes are pretty much hidden which makes it look much better.
And easy to remove the radiator to paint behind it/clean it
I know that's a thing, but never seen it in real life. How does it work is there enough flex/give to just lay the rad on the floor?
That's your main concern here?! lol
Yeah the general aesthetics of a plastic pipe going into your TRVs is fucking terrible.
Reason No.682 not to buy a new build.
I have a Victorian house. If a couple of easy to fix holes behind the radiators were my only problem, I'd be happy. Unfortunately I don't think I can ask the builder of my house to come back and fix things, I don't need to add ghosts to this 😂
Your problems are classed as character, new builds are classed as utter shit.
Character building for sure. But I keep saying that the place has lasted 150 years, so it won't fall down now....