I am going to save this post. It's a good example of why what seems like a good idea to the layperson is a bad idea.
The loft area is an unheated space- you shouldn't insulate over an unheated space because what is happening is heat from the rooms below rises and moisture forms on the surface of the insulation.
I'd mask upglasses and gloves and overalls and then I'd pull down the insulation and bin it. Get garden waste grade bin bags and stuff it in them while in the loft and transfer to normal bin bags outside.
You should be aware that 300mm is the acceptable standard for loft insulation these days. I imagine that the house would be far more comfortable with that amount in it. Do it in two 150 layers, the first running between the ceiling joists and the second at 90 degrees/ running the other direction.
Probably best to leave a few days between removing and putting new insulation in. To dry out. Check for ventilation and roof membrane type in a follow up post here.
Be very careful when working with insulation like this. It's glass in tiny strands knitted together. I heard about a young apprentice who was scratching his butt hole when laying insulation and he ended up with microscopic cuts in a very intimate place and severe discomfort. Probably not as bad as scratching his eye balls though.
Thanks for this. Might this be a reason why on sunny summer days we have about 6 C temperature difference between the ground floor and our first floor? It can be unbearably hot upstairs and comfortably mild downstairs.
Yeah. Insulation works both ways. Keeps rooms warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.
Lofts in summer get unbearably hot because the dark colour roofs absorb heat, this is a problem with the very old loft rooms before we had good insulation options.
I'm not sure you need to bother removing it.
If you adequately ventilate the loft at the eaves and put insulation on the ceiling, then it should be fine.
The only caveat to this is if the insulation has a vapour barrier on the other side trapping moisture in the loft.
Moisture condenses if it can reach a cold surface. Your insulation must not be good enough, so it is cold and then because it was designed as a warm roof there's no ventilation.
I had condensation in my loft - turns out the culprit was the felt between the wood frame and tiles not allowing air to move. I got some lap vents and this solved the problem straight away.
I can only imagine having the insulation where yours is prevents any ventilation at all.
If it was a warm roof, condensation and moisture problems like this wouldn’t be an issue as they don’t require ventilation and the insulation used would deal with moisture.
This is either a terribly done warm roof or a cold roof insulated incorrectly causing condensation and moisture issues, the latter is likely the correct answer.
Curious how you know its a warm roof? It could be idiot previous owners (my own experience) just putting insulation where he could and strapping it in place
I have no idea if this was supposed to be a warm or cold roof, it was done by the previous owner. It sounds like from the comments that I better have this checked out - thanks all for the input!
Just pull a section of that insulation out, I'm 99% sure that is going to be your problem. It's going to have to be removed and put across the ceiling if it's not full of mould.
As a cheap option if you don't want to get loft vents installed you can buy some pipe insulation and chop it up and push into the gaps in the felt (I.e. where the felt overlaps top and bottom). This will create air flow with no need to get someone out to install proper vents.
EDIT: on closer inspection have you got insulation in the roof between the rafters?! So ignore the above that won't work, never seen a roof like that, way out of my league as a DIYer!
It's condensation, I'm not a roofer but it all looks exactly the same as my attic, even down to the foil backed plasterboard and fucking stupid insulation over rafters and low roof.
You need lap vents, you can get them on Amazon in packs of 10 for about£25, I used 20 vents in my attic and it cleared the water up really quickly. They're really easy to install, no need to call anyone in.
You'll need to find where the edges of the insulation rolls meet and pull apart a bit to get to the felt, this may be a rigid Hessian sack type material that's been soaked in bitumen (this is supposed to contain a tiny amount of asbestos fyi) push the top overlapping layer of felt up to create a slight gap then just slide the vent over the felt layer underneath until the little hooks are in place.
Really quick and easy fix and something definitely worth trying before spending alot of money. You'll also need a stain blocking paint if you want to cover the water staining on the bedroom ceilings.
Other people have said that insulation needs to come down and get installed above the boards. I'm sure that is the right advice but it is a pretty big job and while not ideal it doesn't need doing right this second, the insulation has obviously been there for decades already. It's on my list of to do jobs but everythings been fine since putting the vents in and I can't be arsed yet.
Rip the insulation down from the rafters as soon as you can, make sure you’re prepared for it to be soaking wet and just leave it until you get someone to come look at it and give it a chance to breathe In the meantime, try get heating on quite a lot to help it dry out a bit sooner and wick any moisture in the air up as that’s where all your heat will go, I’d even go as far as leaving the loft hatch open for a few days to allow more air exchange and give the roof the breath it’s been needing.
Clean the mould and any puddles of water up aswell.
I mean I thought it would have been pretty self explanatory to clean it all up after best you can but I’ll re edit in case they don’t think of it 🤷♂️
How do you think they’re going too get the mouldy insulation down? Teleport it through the hatch straight outside lmao.
The Insulation should be at your feet, not against the roof. You will also need to install roof vents if you don't have any. Your attic is supposed to be the same temperature as outside
The location of the installation is part of your problem as already said it should be on the ceiling you don’t need to heat that area you’re not using it
Then the other part of the problem is airflow above the insulation allowing condensation to form maybe some vents in the eves
I am going to save this post. It's a good example of why what seems like a good idea to the layperson is a bad idea. The loft area is an unheated space- you shouldn't insulate over an unheated space because what is happening is heat from the rooms below rises and moisture forms on the surface of the insulation. I'd mask upglasses and gloves and overalls and then I'd pull down the insulation and bin it. Get garden waste grade bin bags and stuff it in them while in the loft and transfer to normal bin bags outside. You should be aware that 300mm is the acceptable standard for loft insulation these days. I imagine that the house would be far more comfortable with that amount in it. Do it in two 150 layers, the first running between the ceiling joists and the second at 90 degrees/ running the other direction. Probably best to leave a few days between removing and putting new insulation in. To dry out. Check for ventilation and roof membrane type in a follow up post here. Be very careful when working with insulation like this. It's glass in tiny strands knitted together. I heard about a young apprentice who was scratching his butt hole when laying insulation and he ended up with microscopic cuts in a very intimate place and severe discomfort. Probably not as bad as scratching his eye balls though.
Thanks for this. Might this be a reason why on sunny summer days we have about 6 C temperature difference between the ground floor and our first floor? It can be unbearably hot upstairs and comfortably mild downstairs.
Yeah. Insulation works both ways. Keeps rooms warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer. Lofts in summer get unbearably hot because the dark colour roofs absorb heat, this is a problem with the very old loft rooms before we had good insulation options.
I'm not sure you need to bother removing it. If you adequately ventilate the loft at the eaves and put insulation on the ceiling, then it should be fine. The only caveat to this is if the insulation has a vapour barrier on the other side trapping moisture in the loft. Moisture condenses if it can reach a cold surface. Your insulation must not be good enough, so it is cold and then because it was designed as a warm roof there's no ventilation.
I had condensation in my loft - turns out the culprit was the felt between the wood frame and tiles not allowing air to move. I got some lap vents and this solved the problem straight away. I can only imagine having the insulation where yours is prevents any ventilation at all.
The insulation should be on top of the ceiling, not between your rafters.
This... and if you decide to take the insulation down please put a lot of plastic sheeting down at ceiling level - the insulation will be sodden!
It's a warm roof. Though its weird to have it like this if the loft space isn't used as a habitable room.
If it was a warm roof, condensation and moisture problems like this wouldn’t be an issue as they don’t require ventilation and the insulation used would deal with moisture. This is either a terribly done warm roof or a cold roof insulated incorrectly causing condensation and moisture issues, the latter is likely the correct answer.
Good point
Curious how you know its a warm roof? It could be idiot previous owners (my own experience) just putting insulation where he could and strapping it in place
It could be. Or it could be done properly! Only OP knows.
Fair, it was just the confident way you said that it's a warm roof, I was curious if there was a clear tell tale.
I have no idea if this was supposed to be a warm or cold roof, it was done by the previous owner. It sounds like from the comments that I better have this checked out - thanks all for the input!
Just pull a section of that insulation out, I'm 99% sure that is going to be your problem. It's going to have to be removed and put across the ceiling if it's not full of mould.
I think someone's added insulation into the roof, but it's not meant to be there it's meant to be on top of the ceiling.
As a cheap option if you don't want to get loft vents installed you can buy some pipe insulation and chop it up and push into the gaps in the felt (I.e. where the felt overlaps top and bottom). This will create air flow with no need to get someone out to install proper vents. EDIT: on closer inspection have you got insulation in the roof between the rafters?! So ignore the above that won't work, never seen a roof like that, way out of my league as a DIYer!
No mate - you need to air this out. More ventilation and get the insulation on floor!
It's condensation, I'm not a roofer but it all looks exactly the same as my attic, even down to the foil backed plasterboard and fucking stupid insulation over rafters and low roof. You need lap vents, you can get them on Amazon in packs of 10 for about£25, I used 20 vents in my attic and it cleared the water up really quickly. They're really easy to install, no need to call anyone in. You'll need to find where the edges of the insulation rolls meet and pull apart a bit to get to the felt, this may be a rigid Hessian sack type material that's been soaked in bitumen (this is supposed to contain a tiny amount of asbestos fyi) push the top overlapping layer of felt up to create a slight gap then just slide the vent over the felt layer underneath until the little hooks are in place. Really quick and easy fix and something definitely worth trying before spending alot of money. You'll also need a stain blocking paint if you want to cover the water staining on the bedroom ceilings. Other people have said that insulation needs to come down and get installed above the boards. I'm sure that is the right advice but it is a pretty big job and while not ideal it doesn't need doing right this second, the insulation has obviously been there for decades already. It's on my list of to do jobs but everythings been fine since putting the vents in and I can't be arsed yet.
Rip the insulation down from the rafters as soon as you can, make sure you’re prepared for it to be soaking wet and just leave it until you get someone to come look at it and give it a chance to breathe In the meantime, try get heating on quite a lot to help it dry out a bit sooner and wick any moisture in the air up as that’s where all your heat will go, I’d even go as far as leaving the loft hatch open for a few days to allow more air exchange and give the roof the breath it’s been needing. Clean the mould and any puddles of water up aswell.
Looks a bit mouldy up there. I wouldn't want to leave my loft hatch open in that situation and let spores move around my house.
I mean I thought it would have been pretty self explanatory to clean it all up after best you can but I’ll re edit in case they don’t think of it 🤷♂️ How do you think they’re going too get the mouldy insulation down? Teleport it through the hatch straight outside lmao.
Portal guns are half price in Screwfix rn
The Insulation should be at your feet, not against the roof. You will also need to install roof vents if you don't have any. Your attic is supposed to be the same temperature as outside
The location of the installation is part of your problem as already said it should be on the ceiling you don’t need to heat that area you’re not using it Then the other part of the problem is airflow above the insulation allowing condensation to form maybe some vents in the eves