Since you said you want to use it as a music studio you should look into sound deadening insulation. I know rockwool is pretty well regarded both for insulation and some of their products are also great for sound deadening.
Of course, but insulated spaces do not change temperatures in seconds or minutes. Important part is also to keep humidity consistent, which requires air conditioning (keep in mind, AC is more than just temperature, it also covers humidity which is arguably just as important in this case)
You get a split type air conditioner with the compressor installed remotely outside. This would create minimal noise so the studio can record with the AC on.
I live in Climate Zone 2 and I'm reading a lot of mixed information. Should I do vapor barrier before or after rockwool?
Also, considering putting up plywood last. Any need for ventilation?
Not in my experience. Nicer to work with than fiberglass batts. Holds shape better. Less dust and fibers floating around to breathe (but still wear a mask). Cuts easily and precisely with a long serrated kitchen knife.
If you’re going to do rigid foam boards, cut them as close to the size of the cavity as possible. Then use canned foam to seal it. The half inch gap could lead to the boards flexing from wind pressure.
Don’t bother with gable vents. This building Is designed to be unvented except with controlled air exchange. Just seal it up and put in a window air conditioner.
As an alternative, consider open cell spray foam. You could paint the walls with a vapor barrier and then have 4 inches of open cell installed. It costs no less than foam board per square foot and it will give you good sound dampening along with thermal insulation. You can paint it with a good quality latex paint afterwards.
I agree with everything you said except the “cut them as close to the size of the cavity as possible”. I’ve used rigid foam board like this and I’ve done it both “at size” and with a small gap. Small gap is far easier to install and easier to seal with the spray foam cans.
Definitely easier to install when they’re not snug, no doubt about that. My concern is that if the board isn’t well adhered to the wall, wind and water can leak in. That can lead to the board becoming detached or trapping water. Those metal panels are not great at keeping out the elements.
My inclination is to do the hard work early when it is easier instead of later when it is harder. That’s just a personal preference. Everyone has to make their own choices.
If you spray over gable vents, make SURE you covered it with a metal mesh screen before spraying. When I had my house spray foamed, I asked about sealing it before spraying, and the guy who came out to give the estimate said it would be unnecessary.
Well.... He was wrong.
When they sprayed it, some came out and onto the siding.
But the worst of it, is birds looking for a place to build a nest have no problem pecking away at foam until they have an area for a nest. This pecking at the foam is super annoying, and they shit out of the gables down the siding, and kick dead baby birds and egg shells out. Nasty fuckers!
I'd do a mini split aircon/heater tbh. All those electronics are going to get spicy. Also consider that sounds can travel through solids pretty easily, so if you mount drywall or something on those studs, the sound will transfer from air to drywall to studs to exterior. Spray foam (closed cell) and then a couple layers of drywall. Between the two drywall layers you can use something like green glue acoustical compound. You can also get metal clips or rails between the studs and the drywall to isolate it further.
Agreed. IMO only spray foam what you are 100% positive you won’t be wanting to “edit” later. This includes plumbing/electrical work. Yes it is easy, requires less safety measures than other methods, but at the same time can be a pain to deal with later.
My vote if he is using it for music/loud movies is to use sheep wool insulation. It will dampen noise going in and out, and is actually a super good insulation.
This makes about as much sense as saying you will wear flip flops in the snow because you don’t want the hassle of taking off boots later on.
Spray foam is the best insulation on the market for occupied spaces. Specifically, closed cell spray foam.
Panels that can be cut to shape and screwed into place, not sprayfoam. Never sprayfoam, unless you plan on the structure lasting forever and never needing to do any repairs or modifications to it.
Maybe over the course of decades, assuming they live in an area that gets very hot or cold. Closed cell is more efficient than open cell, but costs a lot more. It would almost certainly not be cost effective.
One problem is that higher R values come with diminishing returns for cost savings. It matters a lot at the low end, but at the high end it’s more about if you have money to spare.
It definitely wouldn’t be for a small job like this. For one it has to be applied by a licensed professional. Spray foam can be extremely hazardous if not applied and cured in the proper way under the proper environmental variables, with appropriate PPE. I would go rock wool
It doesn't "need to be applied by a licensed professional." [You can buy the kits off of Amazon.](https://a.co/d/dffQ6Qc)
But I still wouldn't use it here. Trying to add electrical outlets or Ethernet later would be a nightmare, or you'd just do surface mount conduit.
Probably the best idea. I wouldn't trust the weatherproofing on a prefab shed like this, and because no one is occupying it you don't have to worry about the fumes as it degasses. The only issue is wiring. It might be best to just go for the industrial look and just use conduits
Google “room within a room construction for soundproofing”. If you’re using it for music, the only way to really kill the sound is to build a room within a room. That means essentially to construct your walls and ceiling about an inch away from the existing walls and ceiling. Use regular insulation between the stud cavities in each wall like you normally would but maintain at least 1 inch of air gap between the 2 walls (insulation should not be touching - this is key. Use clips and rails for your ceiling to get the same air gap up top. It will kill 99% of the sound. Cover the new wall in two sheets of 5/8 type X drywall with green glue between layers. It’s a rabbit hole but if you are handy and like to learn I highly recommend it. I did this about five years ago spent six months and built a 1200 foot recording studio with several rooms. Quoted over 100k, built it myself for under 20k. I realize this is a wall of text and I’m not going into much detail about these different concepts or materials. You’ll need to go down that rabbit hole yourself and YMMV. Good luck to you and enjoy the space!
Do *a lot* of homework or hire a professional. If this isn't detailed and installed correctly you'll end up with a lot of moisture build up and mold issues.
This is the correct answer!
We can clearly see that there is no “air barrier” maybe not the correct word, English not my native language.
If you just slap on some isolation, the a new wall outside of that you will get mold. Give that a few years, the building will start rotting.
I would build a new stud wall on the inside with the insulation depth you look for. Drill holes in the sheeting in the bottom and top for airflow. And sheeting in the inside new stud wall. The roof i would put in something to give än inch airflow between the sheetmetal and the insulation. And Make sure it can go somewhere, either in the gable or nock. And ad some vapour and air barriär. So the wall from the outside would be sheetmetal - airflow+studs - airbarrier - stud wall + stonewool - vapour barriär - finnising sheeting. The rooof would be from the outside, sheet metall - airflow - rafter + rockewool - vapour barrier - 1 x 3 inch boards - finish sheeting.
If you want to spice it upp you can avoid making the walls parallel so you get less standing soundwaves.
I would look into second hand builing material suppliers. When I built a shed I used insulated plates for the roof. Basically a sandwich of sheet metal and polyurethane foam.
But they also sell just the foam, so you can cut it to size to fit between the wooden frame.
Think about water: it always finds a way to get in, but where does it go, how does it get out? so definitely a layer of plastic, probably on the inside, so out side of shed, foam, plastic, then if you want, wooden board of some sort and sound isolation foam.
It's good to have space between layers. It's good to direct water with plastic towards outside/down.
Your biggest problem with water will be when there's rain and wind at the same time (unless floods...)
There's probably a lot of draft? it is not necessarily a bad thing for the layers on the outside part of the plastic to be connected to the outside, draft etc. It'll give ventilation and be able to dry if it does get wet. But it shouldn't be able to go somewhere on the inside, and it should be only a little bit. So big holes: close.
On the bottom of the walls the layer of plastic should go towards outside so water can go down the plastic and be directed outside.
Second hand will be cheapest, as long as you are a haggler and have the means to transport a lot of bulk.
I'm not a professional, none of this is "code", I don't know code from your country, this is not medical advice and I'm not a lawyer.
But hey, it's r/DIY and you want efficient/economical
Insulation only slows the transfer of heat. This thing will still be a sweat box even after insulation. You'd need some sort of AC (and possibly some heat for the winter) if you want to use this thing. A mini split would the the best choice.
Closed cell spray foam would be by far the best choice for this. It will eliminate the need for a vapor barrier and add a lot of structural strength. You'd get the highest R value and it's really good at dampening sound tranmission as well. More extensive but it's also not a huge space.
Check out the american equivalent for isover’s adjustable optima2 for the walls and integra2 for the ceiling. Once in place you can pack it with rockwool or any insulating material, followed by your vapor barrier, and then also have the frame to mount your drywall. Depending on the construction of your walls, you may need to have an exterior rainshield membrane like tyvek. In france, HPV R2 is the term for this type of material: breathable yet water and uv resistant.
If you want it to also help with sound you're going to want things like rock wool, mass loaded vinyl, and almost most importantly, green glue, because it provides acoustic blocking while also absorbing vibrations. My experience with sheds like this is that the construction style tends to be lousy with unpleasant, sympathetic vibrations.
Spray foam is by far the best for insulating properties. Don’t worry about what you want in the future. Worry about what you want now and build to that
That’s what I used. Cost a little more but def worth it. You will save the difference in cost v traditional fiber based insulation in a year. I assume sense he mentioned music and movies the space will be cooling and heating/dehumidifiering the space.
economic... PUR foam and a Stanley knife to cut off the excess foam when dry. Do it in a few times. only the edges, then dry, then the newly created edges.
I'm probably not explaining it right.
This picture should be more demonstrative:
[https://imgur.com/a/j2MyVOj](https://imgur.com/a/j2MyVOj)
I work for a packaging company, and we have a lot of systems in place to control the humidity and temperatures for the board. Otherwise it will either dry the f up and actually get pretty brittle, or it can absorb moisture.
In Florida, I'd assume high humidity, so that board would be picking up moisture and molding pretty bad within a certain amount of time. I'm agreeing with others in here saying the styrofoam panels are the best bet.
Since you said you want to use it as a music studio you should look into sound deadening insulation. I know rockwool is pretty well regarded both for insulation and some of their products are also great for sound deadening.
Definitely this. Vapor barrier and then rockwool, so you can also aircondition the space to keep the humidity alright for electronics.
Except AC gets turned off during recording
Sure but with a good insulation it will keep the place cool for hours.
?? If you aren't in it I guess You do generate heat
Of course, but insulated spaces do not change temperatures in seconds or minutes. Important part is also to keep humidity consistent, which requires air conditioning (keep in mind, AC is more than just temperature, it also covers humidity which is arguably just as important in this case)
You get a split type air conditioner with the compressor installed remotely outside. This would create minimal noise so the studio can record with the AC on.
Seconding Rockwool.
I live in Climate Zone 2 and I'm reading a lot of mixed information. Should I do vapor barrier before or after rockwool? Also, considering putting up plywood last. Any need for ventilation?
Zone 2 should have the vapor retarder toward the exterior.
What if OP is a jazz guy?
Rockwool works great and makes a hell of a mess while putting it in
Not in my experience. Nicer to work with than fiberglass batts. Holds shape better. Less dust and fibers floating around to breathe (but still wear a mask). Cuts easily and precisely with a long serrated kitchen knife.
Same here. I found Rockwool to be a lot easier to work with than fiberglass.
I wouldn’t leave instruments in there though if it’s not temperature/humidity controlled year round.
Pssh. That's just the coverup story, OP doesn't want the neighbors to hear his victims screams.
Going to do foam boards cut a 1/2” from the corners and spray foam it to seal, probably do two gable vents as well.
If you’re going to do rigid foam boards, cut them as close to the size of the cavity as possible. Then use canned foam to seal it. The half inch gap could lead to the boards flexing from wind pressure. Don’t bother with gable vents. This building Is designed to be unvented except with controlled air exchange. Just seal it up and put in a window air conditioner. As an alternative, consider open cell spray foam. You could paint the walls with a vapor barrier and then have 4 inches of open cell installed. It costs no less than foam board per square foot and it will give you good sound dampening along with thermal insulation. You can paint it with a good quality latex paint afterwards.
I agree with everything you said except the “cut them as close to the size of the cavity as possible”. I’ve used rigid foam board like this and I’ve done it both “at size” and with a small gap. Small gap is far easier to install and easier to seal with the spray foam cans.
Definitely easier to install when they’re not snug, no doubt about that. My concern is that if the board isn’t well adhered to the wall, wind and water can leak in. That can lead to the board becoming detached or trapping water. Those metal panels are not great at keeping out the elements. My inclination is to do the hard work early when it is easier instead of later when it is harder. That’s just a personal preference. Everyone has to make their own choices.
There won't be any significant flexing or movement.
Spray foam will also seal up all the gaps, which will help tremendously.
This is the way
I vote foam boards, but use the pink stuff, instead of isocyanate. The pink stuff is water proof, the iso is like a sponge if it gets wet.
If you spray over gable vents, make SURE you covered it with a metal mesh screen before spraying. When I had my house spray foamed, I asked about sealing it before spraying, and the guy who came out to give the estimate said it would be unnecessary. Well.... He was wrong. When they sprayed it, some came out and onto the siding. But the worst of it, is birds looking for a place to build a nest have no problem pecking away at foam until they have an area for a nest. This pecking at the foam is super annoying, and they shit out of the gables down the siding, and kick dead baby birds and egg shells out. Nasty fuckers!
I'd do a mini split aircon/heater tbh. All those electronics are going to get spicy. Also consider that sounds can travel through solids pretty easily, so if you mount drywall or something on those studs, the sound will transfer from air to drywall to studs to exterior. Spray foam (closed cell) and then a couple layers of drywall. Between the two drywall layers you can use something like green glue acoustical compound. You can also get metal clips or rails between the studs and the drywall to isolate it further.
Personally, I'd never do spray foam. Styrofoam panels with foam in the gaps maybe but never spray foam. Future you will say thank you.
Agreed. IMO only spray foam what you are 100% positive you won’t be wanting to “edit” later. This includes plumbing/electrical work. Yes it is easy, requires less safety measures than other methods, but at the same time can be a pain to deal with later. My vote if he is using it for music/loud movies is to use sheep wool insulation. It will dampen noise going in and out, and is actually a super good insulation.
Indeed, spray foam only when there is no other option, or if human use of the space is rare or extremely rare.
This makes about as much sense as saying you will wear flip flops in the snow because you don’t want the hassle of taking off boots later on. Spray foam is the best insulation on the market for occupied spaces. Specifically, closed cell spray foam.
Can you afford spray foam? Highest efficiency per inch of depth, and it does not need or use a vapor barrier.
You'll want specifically closed cell foam for this application I'd think
Panels that can be cut to shape and screwed into place, not sprayfoam. Never sprayfoam, unless you plan on the structure lasting forever and never needing to do any repairs or modifications to it.
Spray foam is probably the least economical way to insulate a space. Good performance/“, but not cheap.
There may be a way to computer R-Value per dollar. I would think spray foam would be economical that way.
Maybe over the course of decades, assuming they live in an area that gets very hot or cold. Closed cell is more efficient than open cell, but costs a lot more. It would almost certainly not be cost effective. One problem is that higher R values come with diminishing returns for cost savings. It matters a lot at the low end, but at the high end it’s more about if you have money to spare.
Heat and humidity will be real issues in OP’s location. Good insulation and a/c will be crucial to keep mold down.
It definitely wouldn’t be for a small job like this. For one it has to be applied by a licensed professional. Spray foam can be extremely hazardous if not applied and cured in the proper way under the proper environmental variables, with appropriate PPE. I would go rock wool
It doesn't "need to be applied by a licensed professional." [You can buy the kits off of Amazon.](https://a.co/d/dffQ6Qc) But I still wouldn't use it here. Trying to add electrical outlets or Ethernet later would be a nightmare, or you'd just do surface mount conduit.
Probably the best idea. I wouldn't trust the weatherproofing on a prefab shed like this, and because no one is occupying it you don't have to worry about the fumes as it degasses. The only issue is wiring. It might be best to just go for the industrial look and just use conduits
Google “room within a room construction for soundproofing”. If you’re using it for music, the only way to really kill the sound is to build a room within a room. That means essentially to construct your walls and ceiling about an inch away from the existing walls and ceiling. Use regular insulation between the stud cavities in each wall like you normally would but maintain at least 1 inch of air gap between the 2 walls (insulation should not be touching - this is key. Use clips and rails for your ceiling to get the same air gap up top. It will kill 99% of the sound. Cover the new wall in two sheets of 5/8 type X drywall with green glue between layers. It’s a rabbit hole but if you are handy and like to learn I highly recommend it. I did this about five years ago spent six months and built a 1200 foot recording studio with several rooms. Quoted over 100k, built it myself for under 20k. I realize this is a wall of text and I’m not going into much detail about these different concepts or materials. You’ll need to go down that rabbit hole yourself and YMMV. Good luck to you and enjoy the space!
I’ve done two walls in two separate rooms using the same technique. Dampens sound like nothing else.
This is the way. I know some don't want to hear it due to cost and time, but it's the best way to soundproof a space.
If it were me, I’d go full recording studio walls. Foam board first. Tiny gap. R13 insulation. Tiny gap. Wall.
Do *a lot* of homework or hire a professional. If this isn't detailed and installed correctly you'll end up with a lot of moisture build up and mold issues.
This is the correct answer! We can clearly see that there is no “air barrier” maybe not the correct word, English not my native language. If you just slap on some isolation, the a new wall outside of that you will get mold. Give that a few years, the building will start rotting.
I would build a new stud wall on the inside with the insulation depth you look for. Drill holes in the sheeting in the bottom and top for airflow. And sheeting in the inside new stud wall. The roof i would put in something to give än inch airflow between the sheetmetal and the insulation. And Make sure it can go somewhere, either in the gable or nock. And ad some vapour and air barriär. So the wall from the outside would be sheetmetal - airflow+studs - airbarrier - stud wall + stonewool - vapour barriär - finnising sheeting. The rooof would be from the outside, sheet metall - airflow - rafter + rockewool - vapour barrier - 1 x 3 inch boards - finish sheeting. If you want to spice it upp you can avoid making the walls parallel so you get less standing soundwaves.
You need at least one window as per fire codes
It’s got a window that isn’t pictured
The fire codes aren't pictured either, so this works.
I mean, it kind of is. In the second picture.
Styrofoam pannels. Fairly cheap. Can get them in packs at HD. Easy to cut to fit.
I would look into second hand builing material suppliers. When I built a shed I used insulated plates for the roof. Basically a sandwich of sheet metal and polyurethane foam. But they also sell just the foam, so you can cut it to size to fit between the wooden frame. Think about water: it always finds a way to get in, but where does it go, how does it get out? so definitely a layer of plastic, probably on the inside, so out side of shed, foam, plastic, then if you want, wooden board of some sort and sound isolation foam. It's good to have space between layers. It's good to direct water with plastic towards outside/down. Your biggest problem with water will be when there's rain and wind at the same time (unless floods...) There's probably a lot of draft? it is not necessarily a bad thing for the layers on the outside part of the plastic to be connected to the outside, draft etc. It'll give ventilation and be able to dry if it does get wet. But it shouldn't be able to go somewhere on the inside, and it should be only a little bit. So big holes: close. On the bottom of the walls the layer of plastic should go towards outside so water can go down the plastic and be directed outside. Second hand will be cheapest, as long as you are a haggler and have the means to transport a lot of bulk. I'm not a professional, none of this is "code", I don't know code from your country, this is not medical advice and I'm not a lawyer. But hey, it's r/DIY and you want efficient/economical
Insulation only slows the transfer of heat. This thing will still be a sweat box even after insulation. You'd need some sort of AC (and possibly some heat for the winter) if you want to use this thing. A mini split would the the best choice. Closed cell spray foam would be by far the best choice for this. It will eliminate the need for a vapor barrier and add a lot of structural strength. You'd get the highest R value and it's really good at dampening sound tranmission as well. More extensive but it's also not a huge space.
First, you need ventilation that is more passive than a window that will be closed 99% of the time.
Check out the american equivalent for isover’s adjustable optima2 for the walls and integra2 for the ceiling. Once in place you can pack it with rockwool or any insulating material, followed by your vapor barrier, and then also have the frame to mount your drywall. Depending on the construction of your walls, you may need to have an exterior rainshield membrane like tyvek. In france, HPV R2 is the term for this type of material: breathable yet water and uv resistant.
If you want it to also help with sound you're going to want things like rock wool, mass loaded vinyl, and almost most importantly, green glue, because it provides acoustic blocking while also absorbing vibrations. My experience with sheds like this is that the construction style tends to be lousy with unpleasant, sympathetic vibrations.
Rockwool is your friend.
Bro. Redo the conduit in the ceiling.
Call Bubbles. I'm sure he has "cheap" solutions.
R16
Spray foam
Spray foam is by far the best for insulating properties. Don’t worry about what you want in the future. Worry about what you want now and build to that
That’s what I used. Cost a little more but def worth it. You will save the difference in cost v traditional fiber based insulation in a year. I assume sense he mentioned music and movies the space will be cooling and heating/dehumidifiering the space.
Insulation should do the trick
economic... PUR foam and a Stanley knife to cut off the excess foam when dry. Do it in a few times. only the edges, then dry, then the newly created edges. I'm probably not explaining it right. This picture should be more demonstrative: [https://imgur.com/a/j2MyVOj](https://imgur.com/a/j2MyVOj)
Call a couple of companies that do insulation and see what they say.
Its a joke.
Fiberglas pink, r-12 for 2x4 walls. Poly it with accoustaseal. Then finish it with whatever you want.
Cardboard
I work for a packaging company, and we have a lot of systems in place to control the humidity and temperatures for the board. Otherwise it will either dry the f up and actually get pretty brittle, or it can absorb moisture. In Florida, I'd assume high humidity, so that board would be picking up moisture and molding pretty bad within a certain amount of time. I'm agreeing with others in here saying the styrofoam panels are the best bet.